Talk:Margaret Eliza Maltby

Wiki Education assignment: Gender and Identity in STEM

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 21 August 2023 and 8 December 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Gowd0006 (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by BaileeJackson (talk) 15:34, 16 September 2023 (UTC)

Women in Green -- 20-minute assessment (mini-review)

Hello! As requested by Physhist via the June 2024 Women in Green editathon event page, here is a quick 20-minute assessment of the article to help suggest what key improvements might be needed before any formal attempt at submitting the article as a Good Article (GA) nomination. This article looks like it's coming along really well -- no major issues with prose, neutrality or stability, and it has a good number of citations and solid sources. Here's what I think needs work right now:

• A search made via Earwig's Copy-Vio Tool warns that there are sentences/paragraphs in the Career section that should be better paraphrased --> wording is too close to the CWP at UCLA source.
• The bullet list of jobs under "Career" seems unnecessary (all or most positions seem mentioned in the prose content).
• Stylistic inconsistency: the lead paragraph gives the birth/death dates in DD/MM/YYYY format, while the main text & infobox use MM/DD/YYYY format.
• Content question: if Maltby completed her thesis in German, when and how did she learn fluent German? There may be a few other interesting personal details that could be added to ensure the article coverage is broad enough -- I notice the Peggy Kidwell source talks about Maltby's love of global travel.
• With a quick disclaimer that I'm not an expert in image licensing, I do want to pose a question about correct licensing for the three photos uploaded by JaneRayGill75. The photos are from 1908, 1892, and 1918, but the user has labelled them as "Own Work" and claimed the right to release the rights into the creative commons. I'm not sure this is the correct way to license the photos, as the user is clearly not the original photographer and may not have been granted copyright-holding status from the photographer when they were gifted these portraits (it sounds like a family heirloom situation, and I don't know from the details provided whether the family held legal copyright). Some questions: who actually created the photos? Were they ever published anywhere? If the photographer is known, what year did they die? If the photos are previously unpublished, I think Template:PD-US-unpublished would be an appropriate license for at least the 1892 photo, but the other two photos may need more investigation to confirm details around source/authorship and current licensing. The WikiCommons Village Pump is a good place to ask for advice about image licensing questions like these.

Let me know if you have any questions about my comments. All the best, Alanna the Brave (talk) 23:27, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you so much for these great suggestions! This is very helpful! --Physhist (talk) 08:00, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Margaret Eliza Maltby/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Physhist (talk · contribs) 20:51, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: Esculenta (talk · contribs) 16:01, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

Hi, I'll review this. I should have comments up within a couple of days. Esculenta (talk) 16:01, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

Here are my initial comments:

Lead

• The lead seems a little thin; perhaps mention her role in obtaining fellowships for female researchers (constrasted with the contemporary difficulty of women receiving these), her introduction of the first course on physics of music. Her "adoption" and subsequent revelations should also be mentioned.
  • Done Physhist (talk) 14:08, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• "Maltby was also the first woman to earn"
  • Done Physhist (talk) 14:08, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• German qualifies as WP:Overlink, but it would be appropriate to have links for solution, electrolytic, resistance
  • Done Physhist (talk) 14:08, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Early life

• "Maltby would later change her name to Margaret in 1889." probably clearer to use the simple past tense (generally more suitable for historical facts in a biographical article) rather than future-in-the-past tense. Also, it's a bit unclear which of the three Maltby ladies are being referred to here. I note that there's some more interesting details in the Behrman (2020) source; that her sisters were quite a bit older, that they named her, and that she disliked the name intensely.
  • Done, although I'm trying to avoid too much self-citation Physhist (talk) 14:08, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• reading further in Behrman (2020) source, I notice that the article doesn't mention her close and long-lasting friendship with Ellen Swallow Richards. There's also some discussion about her views on marriage that could be elaborated in the article, and would help provide some background context to her later views on the subject. Also maybe highlight the contradiction (pointed out by Behrman) between Laura Gill's position on the "loyalty" of married women academics with the "self-elected home duty" implied by Maltby's "adopted" son?
  • Done (but see above) Physhist (talk) 14:08, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• more from this source: "Margaret Maltby had asked Philip to burn all of her personal papers upon her death." I think expanding on the "why" of this would help provide important contextual information on some of the difficulties female academic faced.
  • Done (but see above) Physhist (talk) 14:08, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• unlink science, mathematics
  • Done (but see above) Physhist (talk) 14:08, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• "After Edmund Maltby's death, the Maltby family moved to Oberlin, Ohio, for educational opportunities." date?
  • I couldn't find a reputable source for his death date. Physhist (talk) 14:08, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Education

• possible useful links: preparatory school, matriculating, acoustics, Charles R. Cross (physicist), frequency, sound wave, fellowship, physical chemistry, conductor, solvent
  • Done Physhist (talk) 14:08, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• "In 1887, Maltby enrolled at MIT" use full name & link & abbreviate on first use in non-lead text
  • Done Physhist (talk) 14:08, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• "Maltby and Cross's work, published in 1892, showed that less than a cycle was necessary to distinguish a C3 tuning fork from a C4 tuning fork." Does the source mention that this is one octave apart (~130.8 Hz)? If so, might be good to add this for a bit more context.
  • Done Physhist (talk) 14:08, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• "European Fellowship" don't think the latter word needs capitalization
  • "European Fellowship" was the name of the fellowship, which is why it's in capitals. Would quotation marks help make that clearer? Physhist (talk) 14:08, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
    • Nah, unnecessary. Esculenta (talk) 18:25, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Career

• "Maltby had previously taught at Wellesley as an instructor in physics from 1889 to 1893." are the dates correct? From previous text, she entered the college in 1887 and graduated in 1893; would it have been normal to have a 3rd/4th year student as a physics "instructor"? The Scott (1960) says that she was there from 1889–1893, but does not mention any teaching.
  • Yes it was normal for advanced students to help as instructors at women's colleges, especially if they were pursuing advanced studies elsewhere at the same time. Since Maltby was going for her second bachelor's degree and had experience teaching, she would have qualified. Physhist (talk) 14:08, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• "At the end of the Fall 1896 term" capitalization not required
  • Done Physhist (talk) 14:08, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• "Maltby suddenly resigned for what she claimed at the time was to recuperate from a serious accident." any more details? Never mind, I figured it out :)
  • :) Physhist (talk) 14:08, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• links: mathematical physics, adjunct professor, chair
  • Done Physhist (talk) 14:08, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• "Unfortunately Maltby's involvement in administration…" see MOS:EDITORIAL
  • Done Physhist (talk) 14:08, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• "1909-1910" (and others) number ranges require an endash, not a hyphen
  • Done Physhist (talk) 14:08, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• "The first edition of American Men of Science, published in 1906, recognized Maltby's name with a star denoting her as one of the country's top scientists." What was the start for? (I assume it's because she was a woman, but perhaps it should be said explicitly?) Was she the first woman to receive this accolade? This source says her name remained on that list for the next six editions of the publication.
  • Added further details about the star. She wasn't the first woman, although one of the first since that was the first edition. The star was a recognition for just being one of the most notable scientists of the time. I'd have to do further digging to find out how many women were also starred in that first edition. Physhist (talk) 14:08, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• That same source also says "She was elected a fellow of the American Physical Society, and in 1960 her photograph was included in the American Journal of Physics where she was one of eight physicists profiled, and the only woman.", which seems like interesting/relevant info that could be included. Also, it mentions a May 5, 1944 New York Times obit; have you seen this?
  • Done, and yes! The NYT obit is one of the article's references
• The 1916 source Maltby-Maltbie family history has more information about her relatives
  • Unsure about where/how to add this. It doesn't add more information about her life specifically, but it also doesn't make clear how she is potentially related to other famous Maltbys
• this source mentions that her work with Nersnt involved a novel application of a Wheatstone bridge for measuring conductivity in electrolytically resistant substances; I think adding this would give a bit more useful context about the nature of her research.
  • Done Physhist (talk) 14:08, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Personal life

• "In her leisure time, Maltby enjoyed listening to music, especially the opera, and travel."
  • Done Physhist (talk) 14:08, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

• about the publication: is this a complete list of her pubs? If so, state that explicitly and give a source where the list came from. Otherwise, the heading should be "Selected publications"
  • It's as complete as I could find, but doesn't have a specific source. Changed the heading to "Selected publications"
• not necessary for GA, but it would be nice to give translated titles, and doi's for the other pubs listed. Some of these are fully available for viewing too (e.g. https://zenodo.org/records/1589399/files/article.pdf?download=1)
  • Added where I could! Physhist (talk) 14:08, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Wrapping up

Improvements look fine! I've made some minor copyedits & image caption tweaks; please check and revert what you don't like. Finishing up this review:

• images: all images are public domain, and used appropriately in the article with proper captions. I suggest that cropping the white (yellow) space around a couple of them would be an improvement. There's a bit a text squeeze between the "Early life" image and the infobox (that might be helped a bit with a crop). These suggestions are beyond the GA criteria though.
• spotchecks:

I confirmed all statements attributed to Gill 2016, Rossiter 1992, and Kidwell 2006. No problems noted.

• while checking Rossiter 1992, I saw mention that Maltby had studied physics under Woldemar Voigt, which looks like an encyclopedic piece of information that you might add at your convenience.

To conclude, I think the article meets the GA critera and am happy to promote it at this time. Cheers, Esculenta (talk) 18:25, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: withdrawn by nominator, closed by RoySmith talk 16:44, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

Maltby with her son Philip Randolph Meyer, home from flight training at Kelly Field, circa 1918.

• ... that physicist Margaret Eliza Maltby hid the birth of her child and then re-adopted him years later?

• Source: In 2014, Autosomal DNA tests indicated that Philip Randolph Meyer was Maltby's natural son. He was born in June 1897, six months after Maltby's sudden resignation from Wellesley College. When Maltby returned to a research position in Germany in 1898, she left her son in the care of a friend who had a nursery. Upon taking up a post at Barnard College in 1901, Maltby reunited with Meyer. (Gill, Raymond (Spring–Summer 2016). "Genetics & Genealogy - Miss Maltby and Her Ward: Using DNA to Investigate a Family Mystery". American Ancestors. 17 (2): 49–52.)

• ALT1: ... that in 1895 Margaret Eliza Maltby became the first woman to earn a PhD in physics in Germany? Source: Margaret Maltby earned her PhD in physics in 1895 at the University of Göttingen. [1]
• Reviewed:
• Comment: Sorry for the probable poor formatting of the source, my first time trying this!

Improved to Good Article status by Physhist (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.

Physhist (talk) 11:45, 15 July 2024 (UTC).

• I can take this on. This'll be my first review as well, but I think I should be able to handle it! As such though, per WP:DYKRI, I'd like a second opinion (bolding just for emphasis to those scrolling by).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy compliance:

• Adequate sourcing:
• Neutral:
• Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

• Cited:
• Interesting:

Image eligibility:

• Freely licensed:
• Used in article:
• Clear at 100px: - With two people, Maltby (who should be the subject) is a bit hard to make out imo. May I suggest cropping the image, or using the image in the infobox instead?

QPQ: None required.

Overall: Very nice hooks! Unfortunately, I have quite a few concerns about sourcing in both the hooks and the article itself. For ALT1, I cannot access the complete source, however the excerpt provided only supports that Maltby earned her PhD in Germany, not that she was the first woman to do so. As for ALT0, the listed excerpt does not explicitly mention that she "hid the birth" of her son, nor does it say that she "re-adopted" him (I'm not sure if that can be conflated with "reunited"). Is there a different source which is more specific?

As for checks in the article itself, most of the sources are offline/paywalled, so I'm assuming good faith. Source #4 says that Maltby was the "first American woman allowed to take a degree" at the university, but it does not seem to support that she was the first woman overall to earn a Ph.D. in Germany. Source #25 should probably not be attributed to Encyclopedia.com, but rather to Women in World History: A Biographical Encyclopedia in line with the page's source (and at that, the source does not support the passage written in the article saying that Maltby received a star in her listing within the AMS). The article could also do with a slight copyedit, with some grammatical errors (quite a few missing commas and some choppy wording here and there) and citation numbers in the wrong order. Sorry that that's a lot, hopefully you're up for it! Leafy46 (talk) 16:31, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

If we don't have rock-solid evidence that anything "first" is certain, we should not consider such a hook. These claims end up at Wikipedia:Main Page/Errors way too often. Schwede66 04:31, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

• @Physhist: Please address the above. Z1720 (talk) 20:08, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

• Behrman 2020 has all of this info, but that is a self citation so I'd prefer not to use that. I probably don't have time to fix the errors in the article very quickly, so feel free to withdraw this nomination if it needs to be done quickly. Physhist (talk) 20:12, 3 August 2024 (UTC)