Talk:Lode Runner

Featured a Level Designer

The NES version also had a level designer included.

As did the Mac version.Nimrand 01:54, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

As did the original Apple II version. They all had it. Added that info. — Frecklefoot | Talk 15:20, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

How about the gameboy version? (Hyper Lode runner) Powerslide (talk) 19:25, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

"Borrowed" from Choplifter

Rxsherm added this comment:

The animated characters in Lode Runner were "borrowed" from Choplifter, an earlier Broderbund title.

I'd like to see some proof of this. Just because they looked similar, it doesn't prove anything. They only had about 16 pixels to play with--anything that small is bound to look similar. Anyone have a site or other reference to confirm this assertion? — Frecklefoot | Talk 18:05, August 15, 2005 (UTC)

Actually, the Lode Runner sprites are 11 x 11, which adds up to 121 pixels ... even in the black and white presentation, with each pixel either on and off, this is roughly an equivalent amount of data to the key in 128-bit encryption, which as we all know is quite strong because of the enormous number of possible combinations. Put it this way -- there are 2.6 x 10^36 (i.e. 2.6 trillion trillion trillions) possible combinations of pixels in that little 11x11 square ... what are the chances that the pixel layouts in Lode Runner would be IDENTICAL (not just in one frame but in every step of the sprite animation as well) to those in Choplifter? There is no chance of that. These drawings are unique and visually identical -- and Doug Smith worked for the company that created the antecedent, so no source is needed for this. Just as I wouldn't require a source to point out that the Darth Vader in Empire Strikes Back is obviously copied from the Darth Vader in Star Wars, I shouldn't need a source for this, either. They are not "similar" -- they are identical. This observation should stay.--65.93.204.146 00:00, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

From the October 1983 issue of Computer Gaming World: "The basic objective of each scenario is to collect all of the gold ingots that the bad guys have left lying around. These same bad guys (the Bungelings of Choplifter fame) have left a bunch of robot guards around, too." That proof enough? Nifboy 21:15, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

OK, guys, reality check time. Yes, Broderbund cast Doug Smith's Lode Runner as one of their Bungeling themed games. They did the same thing with Will Wright's first game Raid on Bungeling Bay. That doesn't mean anybody copied anything. I too once assumed that the sprites were the same, but if you take the time to actually examine them frame-by-frame, pixel-by-pixel, it is immediately obvious that they are NOT identical. Very similar, yes, anything that small representing a human running in only a few frames would have to be. What are the differences? The primary difference is that Lode Runner uses a three frame running sequence while Dan Gorlin's Choplifter uses a four frame running sequence. Beyond that, the Lode Runner hero has thicker limbs than the Choplifter hostages. I personally find the Lode Runner sprites to be superior in terms of form and fluidity. Why not compare for yourself?

Xot 07:52, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Doug Smith not inventor

This sentence was removed without explanation:

"Doug Smith did not invent the original game but bought the rights from another student at the University of Washington for $10,000 after he got Brøderbund Software interested in the game."

Why was this removed? If true, I think it is of interest. Is there evidence one way or the other? --Mike Van Emmerik 12:20, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

shouldn't there be proof before taking credit away from Doug Smith? /64.13.18.28 06:11, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Doug Smith began the first few weeks of development with a partner, who bailed out before the summer was done. I have no idea if the 'bought the rights' story is true, but it is plausible -- however, even if true that he bought out his former partner's interest, it takes nothing away from Smith's authorship of the game. He was in from the beginning and was obviously the only one motivated to complete the task.--65.93.204.146 07:53, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

The statement only appears in TWO places on the web. Here, and [[1]], as a regurgitated Wikipedia. Hence, the refrence is circular, hence, There is NO citation or proof. I do not think it is true, and have no verification of its truth. 11:45, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Nobody has come forward in 28 years to challenge Smith's invention. It's clear that the game is influenced by existing things like Donkey Kong (even the name Kong), and Pac Man (collecting valuable objects around a maze by moving over them while evading contact with opponents). According to the 1991 Usenet posting which is cited in the article, "The only coauthor of Kong was James Bratsanos ... [who] contributed about 15% of the total man hours to the development of the Fortran version and 0% to later versions." 24.85.143.66 (talk) 04:34, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

I'm a friend and co-worker of James Bratsanos, so I have heard some of the story. I think it is fair to say that James developed the initial concept, going back before UW in high school. In particular, Jim was responsible for the idea of a data-driven level engine. Given this game is discussed as one of the first with a level-editor, I think that's pretty significant. It is true that James sold all rights to the game for a lump sum of money. Nevertheless, it seems like it would be appropriate to give James co-credit for the concept. Nrcriss (talk) 22:43, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Jimmy Maher has just put up a new post on Lode Runner at The Digital Antiquarian which clarifies several things about the development, and in particular the mess in the last paragraph of the current "Development" section. (Why would Broderbund give an advance after rejecting the game, and how could there have been a bidding war between four publishers after Broderbund had paid an advance?) It would seem reasonable to edit this section to make clear that Bratsanos created the original text-mode Kong; he, Steinbeck and smith ported it to the VAX; Smith ported it to Apple II; it was rejected by Broderbund; Smith converted it to a graphical game and paid Bratsanos for the rights; and then after sending it in a second time the bidding war between the publishers occurred. (I'm happy to do the rewrite if nobody else steps up.) Cjs (talk) 08:03, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

I've now added information about James Bratsanos to the article. Maestro2016 (talk) 05:18, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

clones?

I see no mention of kgoldrunner, a fairly accurate goldrunner clone for linux.

Wow. BIG can 'o worms. What about links to clones of the game. There are probibly hundreds of them. Care to do some research?

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.193.2.115 (talk) 11:55, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Generally, we don't go in depth into discussion clones of games unless they gain notability in their own right. The most we can do is say there are lots of clones of this game. — Frecklefσσt | Talk 14:24, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Origin of name?

I'm guessing that the name came from the LOAD and RUN commands of Apple's DOS 3.3?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.51.3.24 (talk • contribs)

I think it is more likely that "lode", as in "motherlode" refers to treasure or precious metals. And "Runner" because the player runs around collecting the stuff. But this is all speculation and can't be included without some sort of reference. — Frecklefoot | Talk 13:40, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Probably a bit of both, actually. Xot 07:54, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

It came from 'motherlode' like Frecklefoot says. 71.193.2.115 (talk) 11:54, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Loonies edits

From his edits, Loonies appears to be the original author of this game (since all his edits were in the first person "I did this", "I did that", etc.). Be that as it may, we can't use any of the information without some sources of some kind (well, to be honest, that would be best, tons of stuff on the 'pedia is unreferenced). But we have references that dispute some of his information, and without direct sources that claim the opposite, we can't include his information. I'll work in what I can, but some information will be left out until it is referenced. — Frecklefoot | Talk 13:40, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Ya but it's Lode Runner's creator. How cool is that. Gsus x 06:55, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Pretty darn cool, of course. But we have no way of knowing whether it was really him or not. I incorporated what I could, taking it on good faith. — Frecklefoot | Talk 16:49, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Lode Runner's real creator would be smart enough not to write in the first person in a Wikipedia article. 192.139.122.42 (talk) 22:04, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

External link spam?

Here's a guy Cervus1983 that previously added commercial (spam) links to various game articles. First it was directly to the page of the remake, with some screenshots, a link to a trial-version and next to it the 'buy the full game for only X.XX$' link.

Now he created a 'story page' with detailed background information about the game, and at the end of the story is a link to the afore mentioned page [2]. While I can't say the story is bad, it's painfully obvious the ultimate purpose of this link is generating income from readers of the articles on Wikipedia.

Other articles he added external links (only the games that he offers on the site):

• Boulderdash
• Puzznic

What are your thoughts on this? --DaSjieb 08:03, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

It looks like the article was published elsewhere. I have no idea whether they authored the article or just lifted it from the other sources. I'd just link to the other prints of the article if they are non-commercial. Otherwise, just delete the link. The whole purpose of "the story" is to sell their remake of the game. That's a no-no in our book. — Frecklefσσt | Talk 13:10, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the input. I googled for an excerpt of the story, and it looks like he really wrote the article himself. However, the questionable purpose of the original article remains. I think we can safely remove the mentioned external links, which I will do when I got some more time on my hands (and it's not already done by some brave volunteer ;-) ). DaSjieb 21:59, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

TRS-80

I used to play Lode Runner on my TRS-80 (COCO-2). The game was loaded from a diskette and not from tape. I wonder if it was an official port, a clone or a rip-off. If anybody can remember! Hugo Dufort (talk) 01:54, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

I can't find any reference to a TRS-80 version on the web (and I do know how to find old video games on the 'Net), but I did find this from MobyGames. Was this the game you played? Also I found this, apparently Lode Runner on cartridge for a Tandy machine. So it may have come out on disk too. HTH — Frecklefσσt | Talk 13:38, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Revenge of Lode Runner

I remember playing Revenge of Lode Runner on the Apple IIc but I saw no mention of it here on this article. I wonder if it was a sequel to Lode Runner because it was very hard compared to the original.

Here is a link to play it online using the original Apple II rom. http://www.vizzed.com/playonlinegames/game.php?id=6223&system=appleii&name=Revenge-of-Lode-Runner — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.46.198.231 (talk) 02:13, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Wait what? He's fighting Bomberman??

First paragraph of the main section of the Bomberman article reads currently: The games are set somewhere in a galaxy known as the Bomber Nebula, on Planet Bomber. The original MSX game (as well as the PS1 edition) had no real storyline. The NES and Game Boy versions begin with "Bomberman" (the eponymous character of the game) growing bored of making bombs in an underground factory of the Bungeling Empire.. I havent played this game in 20 years but I still somehow remembered the name Bungeling and immediately came over here to make sure I was remembering it right. I found a few fansites that suggest that the concept of "Bomberman" was actually developed by Broderbund, and then sold to Hudson when Lode Runner was licensed to them, but there doesn't seem to be any other evidence for it other than that both games use the term Bungeling. It's also not clear if the hero of Lode Runner is also a "Bomberman" or not. Any chance of finding a RS-compliant site that we could use to get this into the main article? I dont wanna just write "Fans speculate that Bomberman is Lode Runner" or some such thing, at least not on Wikipedia. —Soap— 15:05, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

I recall the end of Bomberman saying "Bomberman goes to Lode Runner", or vice-versa. --95.28.122.152 (talk) 17:22, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

But that could have been a joke by an unofficial publisher. --95.28.122.152 (talk) 17:23, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

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JAMMA

What on Earth? Why the hell are some games listed as "Coin Operated JAMMA board" (including some that came out before JAMMA was a thing), while a few actual JAMMA boards (The Dig Fight) are just listed as "Coin Operated Arcade"? 2601:445:200:E560:CC8A:9AE4:8918:1FE3 (talk) 02:39, 31 January 2020 (UTC)