Talk:Kamala Harris

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Q1: Why does Wikipedia say that Kamala Harris is African American/Asian American/South Asian American?

A1: Wikipedia content is based on reliable sources (see Wikipedia:Verifiability, Wikipedia:Reliable sources). Many reliable sources, over a long period, refer to Harris as African American and Asian American, so Wikipedia reflects that in this article. Moreover, Harris's Senate and campaign websites state that she is African American and Asian American.

Social media posts have inaccurately suggested that Harris cannot be African American because she has an Indian mother and Jamaican father. As PolitiFact notes, (see A look at Kamala Harris' multi-ethnic background and racial identity in the US, PolitiFact (August 14, 2020)), "this is a poor understanding of history, and ... the implication that Jamaicans aren't African or connected to Africa is wrong on its face." While not all Jamaican-Americans identify as "African American," Harris and many others do.

When Wikipedia describes someone as the "first" to do something, we default to the larger category. Therefore, while Harris is the first Tamil-American, Indian-American, or South Asian-American to be Vice President of the US, we describe her, as reliable sources do, as the first Asian American to be Vice President of the US.

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

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This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

This article has been viewed enough times in a single year to make it into the Top 50 Report annual list. This happened in 2019, 2020, and 2021.

This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report 26 times. The weeks in which this happened:

This article has been mentioned by multiple media organizations:

Aída Chávez (2 July 2020). "There's a War Going on Over Kamala Harris's Wikipedia Page, With Unflattering Elements Vanishing". The Intercept. Retrieved 2 July 2020.
Eric Ting (4 July 2020). "Someone is working very hard to dress up Kamala Harris' Wikipedia page, report finds". SFGate. Retrieved 4 July 2020.
Tyler Olson (6 July 2020). "Kamala Harris' Wikipedia page scrubbed of information amid veepstakes, igniting online fight". Fox News. Retrieved 6 July 2020.
Emily Jacobs (7 July 2020). "Kamala Harris' Wikipedia page has been edited over 500 times amid VP rumors". New York Post. Retrieved 7 July 2020.
Zachary Petrizzo (11 August 2020). "Trolls Are Currently Trying to Deface Kamala Harris' Wikipedia Page With Slurs and Other False Info". Mediaite. Retrieved 11 August 2020.
Joshua Benton (13 August 2020). "The Wikipedia War Over Kamala Harris's Race". The Atlantic. Retrieved 13 August 2020.
Bradley Cortright (24 January 2024). "Harris Complains About How Tall Wikipedia Says She Is". Independent Journal Review. Retrieved 26 January 2024.
Johnathan Jones (24 January 2024). "Kamala Harris Bothered by How Tall Wikipedia Says She Is: 'That Is Absolutely Incorrect'". The Western Journal. Retrieved 26 January 2024.
Reagan Reese (24 January 2024). "Kamala Harris Is Very Concerned About Wikipedia Trolls Making Her Look Short". The Daily Caller. Retrieved 26 January 2024.

Section sizes

Section size for Kamala Harris (35 sections)
Section name	Byte count	Section total
(Top)	7,431	7,431
Early life and career	230	34,244
Early life and education	16,011	16,011
Early career	2,989	2,989
San Francisco District Attorney (2002–2011)	15,014	15,014
Attorney General of California (2011–2017)	15,209	15,209
U.S. Senator (2017–2021)	33	51,019
Election	8,573	8,573
Tenure and political positions	2,215	39,284
2017	8,634	8,634
2018	8,877	8,877
2019	14,373	14,373
2020	3,982	3,982
2021	1,203	1,203
Committee assignments	2,409	2,409
Caucus memberships	720	720
2020 presidential election	33	21,020
Presidential campaign	13,269	13,269
Vice presidential campaign	7,718	7,718
Vice presidency (2021–present)	5,122	33,431
Senate presidency	8,341	8,341
Immigration	13,726	13,726
Foreign policy	6,242	6,242
2024 presidential campaign	11,855	11,855
Political positions	5,523	5,523
Personal life	10,485	10,485
Public image	10,499	10,499
Publications	810	810
See also	634	634
Notes	26	26
References	1,269	1,269
Further reading	353	353
External links	201	7,731
Official	286	286
Other	7,244	7,244
Total	211,539	211,539

A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on October 20, 2021 and October 20, 2022.

A "consensus" based on an all-too-brief discussion

user:Antony-22 has interpreted this discussion to establish a consensus for including racial categories such as Afro-Jamaican or dubious ethnic categories such as Indian-American in the lead paragraph of this article. The discussion, in which four editors participated, lasted but two days (October 1 to October 3). The first three respondents (user:Jack Upland, user:JohnAdams1800 and user:Valereee didn't exactly agree with the user:Antony-22's proposal.

On the heels of an exhaustive RfC—which had begun on July 31 and was closed by user:S Marshall on September 26 and in which there was little support for including racial categories of descent—to claim that such a brief and perfunctory discussion constitutes a consensus for revision is a slap in the face of the RfC participants (who had cited dozens of sources). I have therefore undone user:Antony-22's changes in the lead. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 15:25, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We had an RFC, a discussion had between 4 editors can't overturn that. Slatersteven (talk) 15:28, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Antony-22's edit should be reverted and not reinstated.—S Marshall T/C 16:21, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In agreement with Fowler&fowler's revert, as it maintains the RFC result. GoodDay (talk) 16:25, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I won't edit the lead again. But I do want to point out that the RfC was specifically about the "Black" vs. "African-American" terminology, and there wasn't discussion there about whether to use "Afro-Jamaican". As I've mentioned, some readers seem to not be aware that Black Jamaicans have ancestors from Africa and aren't fully indigenous, and my intent was just that a link to Afro-Jamaicans somewhere prominent helps our readers learn that if they're not aware of it. Antony–22 (^talk⁄_contribs) 23:50, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And African-Americans are none of those? Slatersteven (talk) 11:52, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Incumbent, until Jan 20, 2025

Please oh please. When we know who Harris' veep successor-to-be is. Let's not change "Incumbent" to "Outgoing", in Harris' infobox. GoodDay (talk) 20:30, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Good point. Now that Harris has been soundly defeated by Trump in the general presidential election, her successor will be J.D. Vance. TopShelf99 (talk) 14:54, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

When to accept a winner and loser tonight for this page's lead?

For 178 years, the Associated Press (AP) has been the gold standard for calling the American presidential election. See AP, Le Monde, Guardian, and NPR, which partners with AP to name just a few.

I Propose that we wait until AP makes the call at its Live website That way there won't be any jumping the gun and edit wars in its wake. Please voice support or opposition below.

Fowler&fowler «Talk» 22:50, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. This should be on the talk page for the election article. It's also extremely unlikely we will know the winner tonight; it could take days to count Pennsylvania where Democrats disproportionately vote by mail. 331dot (talk) 22:53, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We follow the procedures for the main 2024 United States presidential election, which will not call a winner until: Update notice Please do not state that a state/an election has been won by a candidate before the election has been called by all of the following networks:ABC, Associated Press, CBS, CNN, NBC. We shouldn’t deviate for other pages Raladic (talk) 22:58, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, OK, Thanks. So there we have it in Raladic's post above. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 23:11, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's over – she lost. TopShelf99 (talk) 15:23, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What to write in the lead paragraph should KH win

Obviously moot – Muboshgu (talk) 15:07, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I propose that we write:

Kamala Devi Harris (English: /ˈkɑːmələ ˈdeɪvi/ ^ⓘ,^[1] born October 20, 1964) is an American politician and attorney who is the President-elect of the United States. On January 20, 2025, she will be sworn in as the United States' 47th president, its first first female president, and the highest-ranking female official in its history. Harris was the Democratic presidential nominee in the 2024 United States presidential election, which she has won by defeating former president Donald Trump<cite AP here>

The remainder of her current lead paragraph should be in later paragraphs. Please discuss below. Of course, if she loses, then this page will not have much traffic. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 23:09, 5 November 2024 (UTC) Fowler&fowler «Talk» 23:09, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Should she win we'll probably follow the precedent. The current lede paragraph wouldn't be moved to later, possibly cut down a little, but the information that's currently there would stay. Most of your proposed writing would probably be in the last paragraph, as they are written in chronological order. estar8806 (talk) ★ 23:41, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, I see. That makes sense. Didn't think of it. Thank you. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 23:44, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Assuming it goes the other way at this point, I think the first paragraph would be fine as is with the fourth paragraph being updated about the election, similar to John McCain. Alternatively, we could do something similar to Hillary Clinton and say, A member of the Democratic Party, she was the party's nominee in the 2024 presidential election, becoming the most recent woman to win a presidential nomination by a major U.S. political party (following conditional on 2024 results) and the most recent woman to win the popular vote for U.S. president. --Super Goku V (talk) 09:30, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

THis is why we have wp:crystal. Slatersteven (talk) 10:28, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Kamala Harris [@KamalaHarris] (May 24, 2016). "People pronounce my name many different ways. Let #KidsForKamala show you how it's done" (Tweet) – via Twitter.

Edit request - revert "Exiting office" in the info box

I request that "Exiting office" and the Jan 20, 2025 date is reverted back to "Assumed office" with the date she was sworn in as VP. "Exiting office" sounds silly, and the info box should have the date she assumed the role, not the date two months from now that she's leaving it. Luminism (talk) 12:02, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved --Super Goku V (talk) 10:36, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What to write in the lead paragraph now that KH was defeated

Suggested change: Change "Harris lost the general election to her Republican Party opponent Donald Trump" to "Harris was soundly defeated in the 2024 presidential election by her Republican Party opponent, Donald Trump. Harris lost the electoral vote 226-312, and garnered over 4.5 million less popular votes than Trump." TopShelf99 (talk) 19:51, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Becasue we try to keep it neutral. Slatersteven (talk) 11:09, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly - What I am suggesting is both factual and neutral. I don't want this article to be completely laudatory about Harris, and I don't want it to be completely defamatory like the Trump article. TopShelf99 (talk) 14:52, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So you do not want it to be negative, by saying she "was soundly defeated"?, Sorry that makes no sense, we say totally neutrally she lost. That is all we need to say. Slatersteven (talk) 14:56, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

She WAS soundly defeated. That is more factual and neutral than referring to Trump lying, racist, misogynistic, and one of the worst Presidents in history, and those terms were all allowed in the lede in the Wikipedia article on Trump. I can understand your disappointment about the election results and voters' repudiation of the damage Harris and Biden have caused for four years and what she stands for, but you and your fellow editors and administrators shouldn't let your liberal bias continue to influence Wikipedia articles. TopShelf99 (talk) 15:14, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This not about Trumps article, it is about here, and we do not engage in tit for tat WP:FALSEBALANCE. Slatersteven (talk) 15:22, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please be mindful not to use talk pages as a WP:SOAPBOX. You can disagree, but your personal political opinions are irrelevant to the discussion. That being said, Trump's lede says "Scholars and historians rank Trump one of the worst presidents in history" as that is reflective of the opinions of scholars and historians, at least for his first term. The same is said for James Buchanan and Andrew Johnson. estar8806 (talk) ★ 15:22, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What's to re-write? She lost the 2024 election, that's it. GoodDay (talk) 17:19, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Donald, is that you? In all seriousness, can we please skip to a WP:NOTHERE block? @TopShelf99's contributions since their account creation have largely been reverted or been talk page soap boxing. Certainly not enough to warrant letting them continue. Note also the warnings and discussion on their user talk page. —Locke Cole • t • c 17:39, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

wp:ani is the place to discus user conduct, not here. Slatersteven (talk) 17:46, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Closing paragraph of “public image” section

The closing paragraph of the public image section seems either unnecessary or written in a way that talks about Trump more than Harris. While the campaign ad did talk about her, it still seems unnecessary to talk about a campaign ad for Donald Trump under a page that is not his, or to make it the central focus of a paragraph. Bluseventy2 (talk) 04:33, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[Kamala-1] Kamala Harris [@KamalaHarris] (May 24, 2016). "People pronounce my name many different ways. Let #KidsForKamala show you how it's done" (Tweet) – via Twitter.

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