Talk:Junior Hockey League (Russia)

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Current teams template

I decided to change the template to something a little more compact... I am currently using the same thing on the OJHL article and it gives me a little bit more room to work around the chart. I also added width parameters to the different columns to make them a little easier to adjust. If you do adjust them, please keep in mind that you also have to adjust the overall width at the top of the template if you want the chart to get thicker or thinner. DMighton (talk) 03:53, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

looks sharp! good work--Львівске (talk) 05:48, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 2009

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: consensus against — æk ^Talk 01:38, 6 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Minor Hockey League → Russian Minor Hockey League —

minor hockey league is a generic term used to refer to a league of minor hockey. This is definitely NOT what a non-Russophone would expect at this title. 76.66.197.17 (talk) 11:21, 29 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

oppose a minor hockey league is one thing, the Minor Hockey League is another. It's a proper name, not a convenient descriptor. Reso lute 14:33, 29 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
oppose per Resolute. This is the proper name of the league. DMighton (talk) 16:40, 29 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support, but maybe to something like Minor Hockey League (Russia), it's very plausible someone looking for minor hockey leagues could accidentally type this. TJ Spyke 17:14, 29 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support Minor Hockey League (Russia) or Russian Minor Hockey League. The current title isn't appropriate. No one can reasonably claim that this is the only league named "Minor Hockey League". Suggest Minor Hockey League be redirected to minor ice hockey. Minor hockey and Minor league hockey already redirect to minor ice hockey. --Labattblueboy (talk) 20:50, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I, for one, cannot think of another league named the "Minor Hockey League", so yes, I do believe one could reasonably claim that this is the only league at such a name. Regardless, disambiguation is necessary only when Wikipedia has more than one article of the same title. Since there is only one Minor Hockey League article, and since it is the only notable league of such a name that anyone seems to be aware of, there is no need for a disambig in the title. As noted below, a hatnote works just as well. Reso lute 06:05, 1 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Minor Hockey League is the name of the league, a hatnote would be fitting however.--Giants 27(Contribs|WP:CFL) 22:41, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Minor Hockey League is the appropriate title. Until another league can be shown to be officially named this, there is no need to disambiguate. A hatnote to minor league hockey would be appropriate however. -DJSasso (talk) 23:01, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as the proper title of this league. I have added a hatnote that reads "This article is about Russian ice hockey league. For a list of minor league ice hockey leagues elsewhere, see List of minor league ice hockey leagues and teams. For ice hockey played by children, see Minor ice hockey". Grsz¹¹ 02:56, 2 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Because of how capitalization works on WP, "minor hockey league" with no caps sends the reader here. This page should remain how it stands, and "minor hockey league" should be created as a redirect to List of minor league ice hockey leagues and teams or Minor ice hockey, whichever is more appropriate (I favor the latter). Hatnotes as necessary may be drafted. ÷seresin 09:24, 2 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 2010

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. As a comment, 'Youth Hockey League' is likely a poor choice since there are hundreds if not thousands of leagues with 'Youth Hockey League' in their name. Vegaswikian (talk) 20:17, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Minor Hockey League → Youth Hockey League — I'm afraid the official English name of the league is now obsolete. I remember that during the inaugural KHL season the English language news articles on KHL website regarding the planned league referred to it by the name Minor Hockey League. However since that time there are no articles to be found on the English KHL website or elsewhere that refer to it as such. Instead it's called the Youth Hockey League as seen here for example. IJK_Principle (talk) 22:01, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support the old name for the article is horrible. As illustrated in the old move request that was defeated by WikiBureaucracy, instead of common sense. 76.66.195.196 (talk) 05:29, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Both apply, but IMO 'Minor' works better, as the league name / acronym still starts with an M.--Львівське (talk) 03:23, 25 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Agreed with Lvivske. Minor works better, just leave it as is. DMighton (talk) 04:05, 25 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 2013

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved to Junior Hockey League (Russia). EdJohnston (talk) 00:16, 3 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Minor Hockey League → ? – The English version of the official website (mhl.khl.ru/en/) uses the name Junior Hockey League. The current name, Minor Hockey League, is no longer used. So either move the article to Junior Hockey League (Russia) or Russian Junior Hockey League. Relisted. BDD (talk) 17:04, 14 October 2013 (UTC) IJK_Principle (talk) 01:30, 3 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose as per the last two times. DMighton (talk) 01:50, 3 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The argument is persuasive, though it is interesting that both the website URL and the league's logo are clearly "MHL". Reso lute 01:56, 3 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

From what I understand, the abbreviation MHL is not only used in Russian, but in English as well, along with JHL, see this: Google search results for "MHL", Google search results for "JHL". Also note how Minor Hockey League is used only in 1 article from 2009 (see this). Now compare to usage of Junior Hockey League here. --IJK_Principle (talk) 02:30, 3 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support Junior Hockey League (Russia). Reso lute 17:08, 14 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support "Minor Hockey League" has many problems, as indicated in the previous requested moves. This should have "Russia" or "Russian" in the title. -- 76.65.129.3 (talk) 04:42, 3 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I agree that "Minor Hockey League" is not a good choice, in particular since it is not used by the league itself. However. the league is also not so consistent, sometimes it is Junior Hockey League, sometimes Youth Hockey League. Since it currently uses Junior as the title of the website, this seems a good choice. I don't like Russian Junior Hockey League because 7 teams (18%) are not from Russia. Wild8oar (talk) 08:15, 3 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose I would oppose it for the same reasons that have been brought up in the past. -DJSasso (talk) 13:31, 3 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

What were those reasons? Still haven't made up my mind yet.--Львівське (говорити) 18:51, 15 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support - Considering the name Junior Hockey League is primarily used on the league's official website, I'm inclined to believe that it is the best name for the article to be located at. --Hockeyben ^{(talk -} ^contribs) 23:25, 11 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Undecided for Russian Junior Hockey League or with Russia in parenthesis as a backup vote. The official acronym is still MHL as stated in the site's footer. I wish they used 'Minor', that would be so much easier. Dummies. Also, just to point out but they also say 'Continental Hockey League' so they don't even use the right word for the KHL on this site, I hope this name used is official and not just some bad translator working in the web department. Their official Youtube still uses 'Youth Hockey League', too.--Львівське (говорити) 18:51, 15 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

CommentI know this sounds a little crazy... but why don't we write an e-mail to Head of Communications for the league and tell him our dilemma... and ask him what they call the league in English? It seriously feels like we are trying to name the league in English for them... so, let's solve this the easy way and just ask.... I could not care less what they call it... as long as it's concrete. DMighton (talk) 20:09, 15 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In follow up... I have e-mailed the press office of the league and asked for guidance in the matter. Hopefully they respond and we can forget about this forever. DMighton (talk) 20:20, 15 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Good move, appreciate the initiative. --Львівське (говорити) 00:26, 16 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I would say the issue right now is to decide whether to call the article the Youth Hockey League (this is used on the YouTube channel and here for example) or Junior Hockey League (used in all recent English language articles on the MHL website). Minor Hockey League is unfortunately not an option, since it's not used by the league at all (although the abbreviation is the same as in the Russian name of the league). The inconsistency is an issue, however: From what I understand, several months ago (maybe a year) the name Youth Hockey League was used - that's when the YouTube channel was created, for example. The official English KHL website also uses this name - the last article I found containing this name is from May 2013 ([1], [2]). However in recent months only the name Junior Hockey League is being used - once the English version of the MHL website launched, only this name was used. So maybe the KHL calls it YHL, while the MHL calls it JHL? Who knows. I say we wait for the e-mail reply from the press office. I think since there are different people working in the MHL and KHL, you would get different answers. That's for example why the MHL calls the KHL the Continental Hockey League. I would say the name should be Junior Hockey League (Russia) or Junior Hockey League (Eurasia), since that's what MHL uses (KHL's opinion is less important). --IJK_Principle (talk) 01:52, 17 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I see the same problem... "YHL" or "JHL" basically. I sent the e-mail yesterday and I imagine they will be slow to answer or possibly won't at all... can anyone here speak Russian? Maybe they can send a message to the guy who runs their Facebook page... might get a faster response? Either way, right now I am just waiting for the MHL to respond to my e-mail. DMighton (talk) 02:14, 17 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Just to clarify, the KHL did use "Minor Hockey League" officially, once. So its not like we made it up, they're just inconsistent as hell.--Львівське (говорити) 17:14, 17 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'm aware of that article. I also have a suspicion that there were more than one article in the past where the league was called the Minor Hockey League. However these articles are lost now, since the KHL website went through a couple of redesigns in the past years and the articles were not preserved. The thing is that the leagues (both KHL and MHL) might have used the terms Minor Hockey League and Youth Hockey League in the past, however in the present Junior Hockey League is used and hopefully they won't change the name any more. --IJK_Principle (talk) 00:17, 18 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I am not saying that this was made up... I too saw them use "Minor" in the league's name when this all started... what I was saying is that this the third attempt at renaming it... let's just get it right. Minor, Youth, and Junior are all synonymous... so there is no shock that Minor was initially used by the league, intending to use Junior... their Facebook guys is probably right that it is "Junior Hockey League"... at least in the intended vernacular... a second yes from the league would solidly confirm it for me... but I am pretty convinced right now. DMighton (talk) 01:10, 18 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I speak Russian. I've just sent an e-mail both to the general MHL's e-mail address and to the Press Service e-mail address. I've also sent a message to the MHL's Facebook page. Hopefully they will reply soon. --IJK_Principle (talk) 02:40, 17 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! DMighton (talk) 03:15, 17 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The Facebook page admin replied. I asked him which of the 2 names (Youth Hockey League and Junior Hockey League) is the official one in English, since both of these are being used at different times. His answer is that Junior Hockey League is correct, however the other variant (Youth Hockey League) can also be used. Now consider that this is an answer from a person whose page's URL is "www.facebook.com/youthhockeyleague". And since YHL is only used on "en.khl.ru" and not on "mhl.khl.ru" website, I would presume that answer from either of the MHL's e-mail addresses (if they ever reply) would be very similar to Facebook page's admin answer. --IJK_Principle (talk) 13:57, 17 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Since I might not get an answer from either of the e-mail addresses, I have also sent a question to the "ask the league" page, hopefully they will reply, so we have an alternative to the Facebook page's admin answer. --IJK_Principle (talk) 14:03, 17 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

For disambig reasons, I'd like to point out that Ukraine just launched their own Junior Hockey League - theirs literally meaning "Junior" (Юниорская - Junior'skaya) and not the "Molodezh'naya" mess from above (молодежь (molodezh means youth) --Львівське (говорити) 18:56, 24 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support move to Junior Hockey League (Russia) (over-redirect which already exists). No reliable source refers to this league as “Minor Hockey League”, and using this term to refer to the Russian major junior league creates confusion. The literal translation of Молодежная Хоккейная Лига = Youth or Junior Hockey League (in this context youth and junior are interchangeable). The official English-language website calls the league “Junior Hockey League”.[3], and following the policies of WP:Naming conventions (use English) (“the title of an article should generally use the version of the name of the subject which is most common in the English language”), and standard disambiguation practices, this article should properly be moved to Junior Hockey League (Russia). Dolovis (talk) 14:27, 27 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

(Russia) issues

Was it the best idea to put (Russia) in parenthesis considering there are 7 non-Russian teams in the league? --Львівське (говорити) 23:52, 5 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Any suggestions? I've got nothing. DMighton (talk) 01:35, 6 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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