Talk:José Mourinho/Archive 1

Archive 1

Poorly Written Article

Why is this article written with such in depth descriptions of the season results for the teams he is coaching? There is no need for that and it overly complicates the article itself, those types of statistics can also often times be found on the teams' pages also. The article is so bloated it is painful to even look at, much less try and read.

68.96.138.141 (talk) 18:26, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Honours - Individual

The Individual Honours section lists that Mourinho won two Serie A Manager of the Year (Migliore allenatore/"Best Coach") awards in 2009 & 2010. This is the award voted for by the players in Italy, organised by the Italian Footballers' Association (AIC) at their annual "Oscar del Calcio" ceremony. However, Mourinho also won the Panchina d'Oro award in 2010 - an award organised by the Italian Football Federation (FIGC) in collaboration with the Italian Managers' Association (AIAC), and is voted for by his peers. This is not listed/mentioned in this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cshaju (talk • contribs) 16:59, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Please look it the final honours table, real madrid doesnt have the UEFA Champions League Title for 2013, this information is false. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cshaju (talk • contribs) 16:59, 11 March 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.146.90.42 (talk)

Barcelona five goal win

Interesting to note this was the first time ever a side managed by Mourinho lost by more than three goals. (http://english.aljazeera.net/sport/football/2010/11/20101129234418721133.html) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.132.78.151 (talk) 08:47, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Discovery Section

What's that section at the bottom saying that Avram Grant and Jose Mourinho are the same person doing there?? vandalism?? --195.158.72.138 (talk) 02:24, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Wife

Looking on the internet, I am not sure whether his wife is called Matilde or Tami. Maybe she is called both. Perhaps somebody could clarify.--Oxonian2006 20:54, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Mourinho's Future

Please take down that so-called comment about Mourinho leaving Chelsea at the end of the season. Just yesterday, he proclaimed he would coach out of his entire contract up until 2010. Just because some sleazy reporter has a gut feeling(I watched Sky Sports News) doesn't mean Mourinho is leaving all of sudden.

JOSE MOURIHNO OFFICIALLY LEFT CHELSEA ON THURSDAY. BOTH PARTIES WITH MUTUAL CONSENT OF DEPARTED.

Mourinho has 'aparently' been linked with a shock move to non league team AFC Wimbledon. Reports of an alleged phone call were introduced to us earlier on this morning. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kman07 (talk • contribs) 12:12, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

LINK: http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news;_ylt=Aj7ye0inN.jbhI3tZOt6IX8mw7YF?slug=txchelseamourinho&prov=st&type=lgns

-Ong Sin Leong, 20th September 2007, 10.41am —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.93.88.34 (talk) 02:45, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

how about a section on his tactics and football philosophy?

Mourino built the team with strong foundation.People would say he is boring but at the end of day , it is the winner who would be remembered. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.11.38.152 (talk) 03:21, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Something I would like to include but may be a mere personal opinion:

I strongly believe Mourinho is smarter than most, and thinks on a whole other level. While he may be ambitious and proud, I really believe his recent outbursts against Frisk, the UEFA and Rijkaard, are not merely caused by stress or a disconnection with the real world, but that he consciously draws the attention of the media towards him, in order to keep his players free from attention and stress. For comparison, in Manchester United, Real Madrid or Barcelona, the focus is on the players, hence all responsibility and stress. This is of course truthful, because it's they who have to perform. I am sure that with Mourinho, there would not be such interest in Rooney or Beckham. he makes sure his players stay out of the picture, all to the benefit of the team.

Something along these lines may be worthy of inclusion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.78.35.195 (talk) 09:43, 14 April 2005 (UTC)

Needs a rewrite

I think this whole section needs expanded upon, updated and tidied up. A good start has been made, but this article is of quite a low quality considering that Mourinho is one of the world's foremost football managers.

--82.41.230.130 14:45, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Putting wrongs right

There is one glaring error that has not been addressed on this page; the players that joined Chelsea after Mourinho joined the club were not signed by him. Mourinho has made two transfers, Ricardo Carvalho and Paulo Ferreira, the rest ( Drogba, Cech, Kezman etc. ) were all signed by the previous manager, Claudio Ranieri, back in Jan 2004 for the summer. Please update, as constant praise ( even from seasoned commentators ) for Mourinho signings is extremely irritating. The man is arrogant enough, please do not give him credit where it is not due.

This is unfair criticism of the article, the underlying feeling of jealousy and hatred towards Chelsea is trying to make its way into an academic resource. Such stupidity should be left to the tabloids or drunkards in the public houses of the UK. Drogba was signed under Mourinho, and despite being a Manchester United fan, I agree totally with this article and will protest any changes.

I thought Drogba was also signed by him, no? Mandel 16:44, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)

Drogba and Kezman were both signed by Mourinho... Ranieri only signed Cech and Robben in Jan. 2004

A pedant writes - can you follow a gauntlet?

He's arrogant, but he still gets the job done. He still whips most managers' asses, even though I respect Benitez and Wenger too. Quit blaming him for shit that doesn't matter in football. Maybe your beloved 'insert name' masturbates and watches porn, but that doesn't give anyone the right to blame him for it. He is a manager first and foremost. And he's achieved great things with Porto, who ain't got Abramovich. And look at Real: same as Chelsea (money, players), but are shit.

There is one major error I have noticed in this article. It states that Mourino was undefeated in his home games as Chelsea boss. While he was undefeated in the Premier League, Chelsea were beaten at home by Charlton in the Carling Cup, and by Barcelona in the Champions league. Please fix this

Anders Frisk

I think it should be mentioned in the article that the allegation that Mourinho made on Anders Frisk after the FC Barcelona Champions League tie resulted in death threats made by Chelsea fans on Frisk's life, and this was a major cause in Frisk announcing his retirement.

Good point, from http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20050314/ai_n12943204

EUROPE'S MOST senior refereeing official yesterday accused Jose Mourinho of being an "enemy of football" for his role in inciting hysteria among Chelsea fans against Anders Frisk, the Swedish official who confirmed his retirement over the weekend in the wake of death threats.

Frisk was the referee for the first leg of Chelsea's last-16 Champions' League match against Barcelona, in the Camp Nou on 23 February, when Barca came from 1-0 down to win 2-1 after Frisk dismissed Didier Drogba.

Frisk has since endured what he has described as "the worst two weeks of my life", becoming the victim of abuse and threats via phone, fax and e-mail. While he has not yet publicised the nature of the threats, he believes they were the work of militant Chelsea fans and he has become sufficiently scared for his family's safety to bring a swift end to his refereeing career.

Mourinho, Chelsea's manager, has now been cited as partly responsible for the vendetta by Volker Roth, the chairman of Uefa's referees' committee.

I remember that in early 2005, it was believed by many that Chelsea will be treated "well" by referees in the second match against Barca just because of the Mourinho comment that Rjikaard spoke to Frisk after the first part ended, and all the other stuff about Ashley Cole, his alleged transfer to Chelsea and the alleged punishment of the team etc., and finally Chelsea beat Barca (John Terry "God's hand"). As a big fan of Barca and Bayern (another team treated badly by referees against Chelsea in 2005) i say why not to give more information to the people about the incidents in the Chelsea-Barca two matches. Sorry, but i'm not the person to write it, so anyone with experience in the encyclopedia should.--BubbleBabis (talk) 12:25, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Article style

This article is a personal opinion about Mourinho. For example, the following sentence "Any second rate manager with the kind of transfer budget the Bank of Russia enjoy every season could win the premiership year in year out." is not the kind of sentence you would wish to see in an encyclopedia. Besides that, I've known Mourinho before he went to Chelsea and his greatest achievements are the victories with FC Porto (a club without money, not like Chelsea) and not the current results with Chelsea. Anyway, even in Chelsea he has an impressive record, so I just think this article should be rewritten by an unbiased person.

Just go and change the POV. Don't even need to bother reporting this before you change it. Such people are clearly just vandals, with no wish of making Wikipedia NPOV. Mandel 18:48, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

as a celtic fan ive known defeat by mourinho first hand (uefa cup final 2003) and the guy is by far one if not the best managers in the world

no way they only beat celtic with their diving and play acting. they were lucky in the champions league too because a bad offside decision denied Paul Scholes a legitimate goal that would have knocked them out. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.1.88.12 (talk)

Neutrality

I've added the NPOV tag - this article his horrendously biassed, as discussed above. If/when I have more time, I'll come back and try to clean it up, unless someone else beats me to it. Waggers 15:08, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Unless you can provide a valid, reputable, unbiassed source for such claims, they would be classified as Original Research and would therefore be excluded.. As it stands, such comments would definitely violate WP:NPOV. Waggers 16:30, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

updating

This article was extremely out of date and contained absolutely no information regarding Mourinho's progress at Chelsea throughout the 05/06 season and so I have updated it now (23rd April 2006) and will do so soon because such an influential and prominent figure in the sport of football deserves to have an up to date reference page. If anyone feels the article is slighly partisan, please ensure it is edited to preserve the article's crdibility and integrity. I have simply tried to cronicle the 05/06 season in a entertaining and literally sophisticated form of prose, as it is the only way to describe such a colourful persona. My update starts half way hrough the chelsea section with the line 'During the summer'User:Rory W-A 16:51 23RD APRIL 2006

Leiria

Leiria beste league finish with mourinho was fourth not fifth.

Whats wrong with him (Jose) he thinks no end of himself. As its always said "He who flies high falls hard."

NEED A HONOURS SECTION ON THAT !!!!

How could it be?

Hey, I'm just a reader who want to read some articles related to Jose Mourinho. Yes, the article is exist, off course, here in wikipedia. but, why do I got so many words of, I'm sorry, Moth*rfu*k*r? -feby 202.152.163.199 00:01, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately this article has been the subject of extensive vandalism lately. Please be bold and remove anything like this that you see. If you can identify which editor made the bad edit, please warn them on their talk page (see vandalism for more details). Thanks, Waggers 10:49, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

There is a slight mistake, where it mentions the victory over man u in april it should say 2006 otherwise it seems like it means 2005.

I just want to clarify something. In his first season at Leiria (started 14/04-01, played 7 games, 5-1-1 , 13-8 goal diff) the team were at 8th place after 27 rounds, and finished fourth that season. In the 2001/02 season he left after 19 matches, 9-7-3, 34-17 goal diff. This totals of 26 league matches, 14-8-4 with goal diff 47-25. He also was manager in a cupmatch against Boavista (4th round 16.11.2001, which they lost 3-0) This makes his total at Leiria 14-8-5, with goal difference 47-28 .

In this article it says his statistics are 31 matches, with 17-10-4, this should be corrected. The goal diff is correct, though. Also, the correct number of matches at FC Porto is 127, not 123. Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 153.110.137.9 (talk) 10:37, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Manager Stats

How come it only features his managerial time at Chelsea. He did spend I think 2 years as manager of Porto. I would add this myself but I don't know the stats and I don't really know how to change it Craig Map 00:24, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

It's based on the info in the Soccerbase external link, which only features his stats for Chelski at present. I'll look for another source when I can. - Dudesleeper · Talk 02:12, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Soccerbase does have all of Porto's results (as far as I'm aware) from seasons 02/03 and 03/04, but to get Mourinho's record they'll have to be added manually... SteveO 16:11, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

You'd have to know the exact date for the first Mourinho game at Porto, as he started midway through the 2001-02 season. It'd be nice to know the exact dates for Benfica and Leiria so we could have a complete table of results.--Serte ^{[ Talk · Contrib ]} 17:59, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, you could just put all the stats in and when it comes to the start date, just put in 'Unconfirmed' I'm sure we'll find it somewhere. Craig Map 23:44, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

According to ESPN, Mourinho was appointed Porto manager on 23rd January 2002. But unless there is another source for his overall Porto record, his results will have to be added up one by one via soccerbase. What fun! SteveO 17:08, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I did it lol, hopefully didn't mess up somewhere, the record should be about right. I counted the wins/losses/draws over a couple of times to be sure. God, I have no life! Jaana 14:48, 16 July 2007

this fact is wrong "only prior home league defeat had come when Porto lost 3–2 to Beira-Mar on 23 February 2002.[138][139]" he lost to Paços de Ferreira in 18 March 2001 http://www.foradejogo.net/match.php?match=200115400012502 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.64.112.221 (talk) 22:17, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

I am not sure if this is true, but if it is it is relevant: did Mourinho win every major competition that he entered at least once? That is, he won all competitions in England, Italy, Spain, and Portugal and also the UCL and Europa Cup. Is there any other competition that he played did he did not win? And if he did win all competitions that he played at least once, is there any other person that can say the same? User:pedrobizarro —Preceding undated comment added 02:24, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

Champions League

Anybody going to add the bit where his team were knocked out? 82.42.102.45 00:10, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I think we should, how the master Rafa plotted Chelsea's downfall in the Cl once again, deniying them a place in the final for their FIRST European Trophy. XD Jazza5 17:11, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

FOURTH european trophy actually numb nuts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.148.143.97 (talk) 23:55, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

who writes this stuff?! it was liverpools FIFTH european trophy, hence they got to keep the cup!. . .p.s. get some facts not opinions —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.195.137.76 (talk) 22:45, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Controversy

Surely there should be a seperate section for all the arguments, rows and other controversies that he has been involved in, combined with the existing 'quotes' section, as Mourinho now seems to be known more for his notorious confrontations and remarks than he is for being a successful manager. Perhaps the Porto and Chelsea areas should be restricted to purely footballing events and all of the controversy and infamous quotes put in a seperate section. May 18th 2007

The above sounds sensible to me. --Peter cohen 18:24, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Other thing, why isn't there anything in the Controversy section about his recent remarks against Barcelona and Barcelona's possible legal action against Jose? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.49.121.101 (talk) 00:16, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Wasn't there a match where he was suffering from a touchline ban but still managed to sneak into the dressing room by hiding in a laundry basket? I can't remember the details, though. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.27.55.215 (talk) 10:24, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Manager of the Year Award

It's now more than a few days since this year's award went to Steve Coppell, so can someone with editing capabilities please change this, as Jose is no longer the current incumbent. 195.26.62.192 08:54, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Dreadful page

Is it written by a half-wit with an agenda against the manager of Chelsea?

What's with WWE?

Who wrote that Mourinho's children watch World Wrestling Entertainment? What does that have to do with Mourinho, Chelsea or football?172.163.70.203 21:44, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

He was in the front row of a recent Raw in London with his kids. Y2J RKO 23:36, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

• Also, pointing out that Félix Mourinho is his father is not relevant to the start paragraph. That fact is not what makes José Mourinho notable. Cigsandalcohol 22:40, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Totally agree with the above points. Who ever wrote this needs to stick to the core of what the article is suppost to inform the public of. Poorly written article, someone needs to edit this...maybe I will. Jazza5 17:14, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Gone

It has just been reported that he has left Chelsea on Sky News.[1] Y2J RKO 23:24, 19 September 2007 (UTC) JOSE MOURINHO IS THE BEST MANAGER EVER, AND IBAMOVICH IS A MORAN FOR GETTING RID OF HIM

I agree. So, to Abromovich, here's anw nickname for you: Roman AbroMORONvich!!!!!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.93.152.6 (talk) 11:51, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

One or Gone

He is not longer the special one he is the special gone. The Tramp 16:23, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

lame. keep working on the routine doofus —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.148.143.97 (talk) 23:37, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Duplicate Quote

I'm a new user, i can't modify. Here is the duplicate quote.

• "There are only two ways for me to leave Chelsea. One way is in June 2010 when I finish my contract and if the club doesn't give me a new one. It is the end of my contract and I am out. The second way is for Chelsea to sack me. The way of the manager leaving the club by deciding to walk away, no chance! I will never do this to Chelsea supporters" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alexandru.Balan (talk • contribs) 09:31, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Poem

Does that poem to Jose at the bottom of the Chelsea section really need to be there? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arimx (talk • contribs) 10:14, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism?

People have been posting ridiculous and untrue comments in the article about Mourinho becoming Manager of England (which he isn't). Perhaps the article should be locked from editing until the FA choose a new manager. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Silvergunner (talk • contribs) 18:22, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Mourinho and the England job

Mourinho has never been QUOTED as saying he doesn't want the England job, and the link to the BBC article doesn't say that he was. It says "BBC sport understands". The entire BBC article is hearsay and the only interview with him (in the Sun) says that he has ruled nothing out. I've never edited a page before and don't want to step on anyone's toes (not sure on procedure or whatever) but this should be corrected 193.129.64.154 (talk) 10:11, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Inter/internazionale/Inter Milan

The article has been switching between the three at a rate of knots. I believe we should stick with "Inter" as a concession to English fans.

• The correct term is "Inter". We should be using the name with which the club are known - not the legally registered title! -The Gnome (talk) 18:48, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
• Note that we are in the minority referring to them as "inter milan"[2] - elsewhere in Europe it's either "Inter" or "internazionale". Similarly "A.C. Milan" is an English thing, just "Milan" being common on the continent. A.C. (atheletico club) is similar to F.C. Please raise your concerns before changing things again. Thanks Sillyfolkboy (talk) 15:24, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Nobody calls them "Internazionale" in Europe outside of Italy and there again rarely. Check the various websites of the Italian sports gazettes. -The Gnome (talk) 18:52, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Please read WP:OR. --Tocino 22:48, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

I agree with "Inter" but please link to the Inter entry, else some may have no idea what "Inter" is or means. Pegibson (talk) 15:54, 7 June 2008 (UTC)pegibson

It should be noted that the name of the club is Internazionale regardless of what users in England might say. Similiarly, users in Ukraine might refer to Arsenal as Arsenal London, yet we still call Arsenal by its proper name. Also Champions League articles all use the proper name of Internazionale instead of nicknames. Links here: UEFA Champions League 2008–09, UEFA Champions League 2007–08, UEFA Champions League 2006–07, etc. --Tocino 18:15, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

The name of the club is Internazionale in Italy (and even in Italy, the club is almost always referred to by everyone as "Inter", rather than "Internazionale", which is simply the official name). But Wikipedia is not an Italian but an English encyclopaedia. The name of Red Star Belgrade might be Crvena Zvezda Beograd in the official records but, in the (English) Wikipedia, their entry is titled Red Star. The name of the Cagliari football club is Cagliari Calcio but everybody, and in Italy as well, refer to the club as simply "Cagliari", in a football context. The term "Inter" is sufficient, is how the club is known world-wide (and not just "in England") and appropriate. -The Gnome (talk) 12:30, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree with that, English (American, British, Australian etc) usage should be used first and foremost on the English wikipedia. Shortening of club names are not so uncommon. For example few people would know who Heart of Midlothian F.C. are but I'm sure most will know the club (by another name). Sillyfolkboy (talk) 01:37, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

What about whenever we link to F.C. Internazionale Milano we use Internazionale, and whenever we refer to the club without a link we use Inter. This is how it works on the article about F.C. Internazionale Milano itself. --Tocino 23:01, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Sounds like a fair idea but that article doesn't use that system at all. Did you mean a different one? Sillyfolkboy (talk) 00:53, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry but this would be done according to which rules? It's neither here nor there. A term should be consistent throughout an article. It's better to have Internazionale than a mix of the two, which would make the text more like a magazine article. I suggest we leave the default mode on, which is Inter in an English-speaking encyclopaedia. Otherwise, we should change all names of clubs to their official name. Starting with Hearts....-The Gnome (talk) 18:19, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

And what about the club Internazionale of Turin? It has nothing to do with the Milanese club. There are more than one clubs in Italy with that prefix, so calling them all "Internazionale" would result in unnecessary confusion. While, when we call the Milanese side "Inter", every English-speaking person immediately understands the reference. -The Gnome (talk) 09:56, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Picture

Ok take off the picture of him in that shirt and get a neutral one or him in an Inter shirt —Preceding unsigned comment added by 154.5.133.46 (talk) 00:57, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

This could be difficult as we should only replace it with a free image of mourinho, fair use is only allowed in the absence of free alternatives. Be on the look out for free, non-club or inter style mourinho pictures. Sillyfolkboy (talk) 21:58, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

use the one on the italian wiki —Preceding unsigned comment added by 154.5.133.46 (talk) 22:05, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately, that picture is blatantly non-free, in fact it was already nominated for deletion at it.wiki too [3]. Only freely licensed photos, please. --Angelo (talk) 23:32, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

then use no picture at all, because the current one is inaccurate and could confuse people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.183.35.10 (talk) 05:04, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Reoccurance of the Inter Milan/Inter dispute 25/2/09

This has previously been discussed above here and consensus seems to have been reached. For a brief reiteration, it would be the equivilant of changing all mentions of Celtic to Glasgow Celtic; it is not the commonly used name. Hope this helps. Fol de rol troll (talk) 00:51, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

zeru tittuli

watch it on youtube, he doesn't pronounce it "zeru tittuli" o_O he pronounces it correctly, maybe with a portuguese accent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.15.168.46 (talk) 23:26, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Vandalism or what?

"The team secured the title five weeks before the end" Whoever wrote it is presumably a big fan of Mourinho. That's no reality in the "five weeks" thing about the 2003-04 season. Actually, FC Porto secured the title two weeks before the end, after Sporting CP lost three consecutive matches. Maybe in 2002-03 it was 5 weeks, but in 2003-04 it was not, b/c Sporting CP was at some time very close to FCP. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.64.6.78 (talk) 12:02, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Comparisons

Lately everyone in the Italian press and many in the English press are comparing Mourinho to Helenio Herrera. Why isn't this addressed on the main page?

Mourinho's confirmed move to Real Madrid

Having announced on German TV just a short while ago that he will move to Real Madrid, maybe some people could look for some English language sources quoting this Cheers. Jared Preston (talk) 22:26, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

out the coaches mouth himself. http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11945_6168258,00.html 66.229.94.70 (talk) 03:04, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

He hasn't signed a contract yet. Therefore, we can't say that he is- officially- the Real Madrid manager.-RomeW (talk) 20:47, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Roycocup, 23 May 2010

{{editsemiprotected}} Mourinho has now won the UEFA Champions League with Inter. As a personal achievement he is also one of three managers to conquer the Champions League title on different clubs.

Roycocup (talk) 01:25, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Feinoha ^{Talk, My master} 19:54, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Mookiept, 23 May 2010

{{editsemiprotected}} "Mourinho quickly found a new managerial post in January 2001 with União de Leiria, whom he took to their highest-ever league finish of fifth place" This is incorrect. The 5th place was on season 2000/2001 (the season before Mourinho) and the coach at that time was Manuel José, later again this position would also be achieved in 2002/2003. So he was NOT the manager behind Leiria's best position ever in the Portuguese 1st League. In fact, he left mid-season (January 2002) to F.C.Porto. Please consider removal!

http://www.uniaodeleiria.pt/index.php?pagina=clubehistoria if you can read Portuguese, União Desportiva de Leiria Official website, it is stated that Mourinho was not the man behind Leiria's best position ever, two other coaches were (in 2000/2001 and again in 2002/2003).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uni%C3%A3o_Desportiva_de_Leiria Even in wikipedia's entry about Leiria's Club, it is stated that Mourinho was a coach during the 2001/2002 season (only half season, actually, before leaving to FC Porto), where they finished in 7th. This alone is enough to prove inconsistency in the entry I'm disputing! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mookiept (talk • contribs) 09:56, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

He was however in the top 5 when he left Leiria in January 2002. Maybe this led to the confusion? Even the website that entry was taken from states he never finished the season!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/chelsea/article391738.ece Mookiept (talk) 10:23, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Here are the facts: Wikipedia says his record in Leiria was 17-10-4. Leiria's record in the 2001-02 season was 9-7-3 or 10-7-3 when Mourinho left, then i only find a 9-1-2 record Leiria had in the last rounds of 2000-01, thus adding up to 18-8-5, and not 17-10-4. Wikipedia lies. And i also think Manuel Jose left Leiria in 2000, i remember Mourinho signed for Leiria not a month after leaving Benfica, his first match being Leiria-FC Porto 3-1 in January 2001. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.68.214.71 (talk) 18:18, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

'Fluent' English?

Is this correct? It usually seems quite broken and mangled Bathory (talk) 11:21, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Van Gaal

Van Gaal, without the first name "Louis" should always be with a capital V: "Van Gaal". So Louis van Gaal, mr Van Gaal. 62.194.120.60 (talk) 18:59, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Real Madrid

It's true by now, Florentino Perez confirmed it.--BubbleBabis (talk) 10:39, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

There's a little problem: Mourinho is still under contract with Inter, so whatever Pérez says is just irrelevant until Moratti and Mourinho manage to part company. I hope this gets clear. --Angelo (talk) 11:03, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

It is now official. http://www.realmadrid.com/cs/Satellite/en/1330006267256/noticia/ComunicadoOficial/Official_announcement:_Jose_Mourinho,_new_Real_Madrid_coach.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.235.146.75 (talk) 19:18, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

I think we've to add that he made Real Madrid won Copa del Rey final against Barca. Barca-Madrid 0-1. -118.137.213.201 (talk) 22:46, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

more untrue things on jose muirnho's wiki than true jose never won the super cup with real madrid sort it out — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.24.181.9 (talk) 15:19, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Listed height

I realised José Mourinho's listed height in this article dropped a couple of centimetres since weeks ago. This needs to be checked. ANGCHENRUI _WP:MSE♨ 13:57, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

---

The height written is certainly wrong.. he is 177 cm. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.201.77.0 (talk) 00:06, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Have you a reliable source for that. I have reverted to the version with the request for a cite until such time as a source is provided. Thanks. Keith D (talk) 01:03, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Managerial Stats

Two IP addresses (89.152.51.218 and 193.136.124.211), strangely both from Lisbon ([4], [5]), seem keen to add to the Managerial Section that Mourinho won the Copa Catalunya with FC Barcelona ([6], [7]). The artilce List of FC Barcelona managers shows that Mourinho has never managed FC Barcelona. In fact, he was understudy to Sir Bobby Robson; which is quite different. We can't add a competition to Mourinho's Managerial Section that he didn't win as manager! — Fly by Night (talk) 17:23, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Barcelona's Copa Catalunya 2000 win should be awarded to Mourinho

Although Mourinho was only Barcelona's assistant coach at the time, Van Gaal gave him the right to coach Barcelona for their both games of the Copa Catalunya.

With Mourinho acting as the head coach in the Copa Catalunya, and with Van Gaal acting as assistang coach at his side, Barcelona won both games and conquered the Copa Catalunya.

In fact, Van Gaal himself said it was mourinho who won that cup: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/europe/8695530.stm

"He analysed all the games for me and did it very well. He took the individual training sessions and I also let him coach the games of the Copa Catalunya. He won it."

Here's a clip from youtube which talks about the Semi-final in the Copa Catalunya 2000: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-37cRsM1_5k —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.152.51.218 (talk) 22:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

But he wasn't the manager. He hadn't organised the backroom staff, bought the players, etc. In short: he hadn't built the team. All he seems to have done is stand in for a few games and pick the team. Van Gaal dedicating the win to Mourinho doesn't make him the manager any more than me dedicating a book to my mother makes her the author. — Fly by Night (talk) 12:09, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Interestingly, the BBC website says that José "worked as a translator at Barca in the late 90s" — Fly by Night (talk) 15:32, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Real Madrid stats fix

can someone fix the stats of his managment info,

From the the thing bellow, change the 20 to 21 (16+4+1=21 and not 20)

Real Madrid | 31 May 2010 | 20 | 16 | 4 | 1 | 80.00

It will fix the WDL error from the cats section.

- 217.132.2.186 (talk) 11:38, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

 Done. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 14:23, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Real Madrid Transfers

the article says mourinho bought 4 players, instead of 6. Sergio canales and pedro león aren't mentioned. the word "winguer" doesn't extist —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.163.68.224 (talk) 11:07, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 109.158.107.128, 27 April 2011

Mourinho has recently been involved in a war of words with FC Barcelona manager Pep Guardiola. Mourinho said that Barcelona are not the best team in Europe, Which lead Guardiola to say "In the press room he is the * chief, he is the * man, i try not to play the game of the pitch". Put this in the Controversy section, bottom of the list, thank you. 109.158.107.128 (talk) 16:29, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

109.158.107.128 (talk) 16:29, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — Bility (talk) 17:12, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Photograph

Can a new photograph be added? Possibly him with a Real Madrid suit OR a neutral photo? --93.187.43.113 (talk) 16:55, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Controversy--Barca/Madrid brawl

Have seen video of the incident. No doubt, Maurinho committed battery, but "gouging an eye," is unclear. So I removed the edit that so described the incident, which was , also, unreferenced. Tapered (talk) 22:02, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Dead link

Citation #27 is dead. ("What Mourinho said". BBC Sport.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Joshtch (talk • contribs) 14:23, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Just tried it and it appears to be working. Can you check again? Keith D (talk) 18:09, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 1 December 2011

Replace: "Since 2002, Mourinho has not gone a full season or a calendar year without winning at least one trophy." with: "Since 2002, Mourinho has not gone a full calendar year without winning at least one trophy, with 2007–08 being his only trophyless season."

Edit explanation: Mourinho spent most of 2007–08 not managing a club, so won no trophies during this season, but did win the League Cup and the FA Cup in 2007 (in the 2006–07 season) and the Italian Super Cup in 2008 (in the 2008–09 season), so his streak of seasons with at least one trophy was broken, but the streak for calendar years was not.

61.69.24.105 (talk) 12:48, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Partly done: I need a reliable source for "2007–08 being his only trophyless season". Thanks. →Στc. 07:27, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

The text is probably fine as it is now, but for the claim about 2007–08 being trophyless, I would point to 2007–08_Chelsea_F.C._season#Competition_overall 210.9.140.114 (talk) 08:22, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

He doesn't speak catalan

This article states that Jose Mourinho speaks catalan but he doesn't. He can understand catalan a little bit and can speak few words, that's normal because he is from Portugal, Portugueese and catalan are both latin languages, but he's not fluent in catalan at all. Actually, he has complained to catalan reporters sometimes and asked them to speak spanish or english. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.174.172.172 (talk) 00:26, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Jose Mourinho Fan Club >Edit request on 29 May 2012<

Hello there,

I wonder if you could add us http://www.josemariomourinho.com ( Jose Mourinho fan club )to the external links. I would really appreciate if posible. Thank you very much !

Regards, Admin

Bandilasilviu (talk) 13:51, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Hi there,

I will not be able to do this, as it is not allowed under WP:RS. The reason is it is considered one-sided Regards, Mdann52 (talk) 17:26, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Wrong statistics?

With Chelsea, Mourinho had 124 wins, 40 draws and 21 loss; I just calculated them according to the season pages, the total is right, 185. Could you check this? If the matches ended at penalties, I considered the result at 120th minute. --> Wins: 42+37+42+3=124; Draws: 11+9+16+4=40; Loss: 6+8+6+1=21 188.10.93.45 (talk) 16:47, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 22 September 2012

Please remove the reference "Vito", it could form a longtime gag on Tito Vilanova, the current manager of FC Barcelona.

Shravan.kale (talk) 11:37, 22 September 2012 (UTC) Not done for now: I assume you're talking about "Pito" - this is covered in a reliable source pretty much as stated in the article. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 19:40, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 16 January 2013

Mourinho's overall win percentage at Real Madrid is actually 73.15% (109/149), could this be corrected?

87.84.118.130 (talk) 10:32, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

Done I have made the change. Thanks for pointing out the problem. Keith D (talk) 13:22, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 26 January 2013

As of today Mourinho is 50. Please update his age on the page. 95.146.164.182 (talk) 19:39, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

It does say he is 50. The Wikicode calculates the age automatically. You might be seeing a cached version of the page, which often happens if you don't have an account. RudolfRed (talk) 19:49, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 26 March 2013

On March 25, 2013, Jose Mourinho signed a deal with Chelsea for the 2013-2014 season. 67.250.69.104 (talk) 01:22, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Not done for now: It looks to be only provisional at this point. Come back when it is actually finalized. Kingjeff (talk) 01:41, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 13th April 2013

Request made by blocked user

In the list of seasons, there is a 2007-08 season which should not be included or should be included with a blank. This is because Jose did not manage chelsea that season and went off the club with a mutual consent. So to put the league position of chelsea and 0 trophies that season in Jose Mourinho article is totally wrong as he left the club on september and he is not responsible for chelsea's 5th position or any other tournaments position. It is also supported by the Honours-- Managerial section where it says " In ten seasons of club management, including an eight-month sabbatical in 2007–08, Mourinho has led his club to win its domestic league seven times, the UEFA Champions League twice and the UEFA Cup once. Since 2002, Mourinho has not gone a full calendar year without winning at least one trophy". I don't believe this is necessary. It's highlighted pink to show that it was an unfinished performance. Chelsea did not finish in 5th that season, after all -- they finished second, but were 5th at the time of his departure. Likewise, he did not lead the team beyond the group stage given that he left before the team got past that stage. Your claim is not supported by the honours section, because it talks about the calendar year, whereas the table uses seasons -- he won the English FA Cup/League Cup in 2007 (end of 2006-07), and the Italian Super Cup in 2008 (beginning of 2008-09). Meanwhile, he won no trophies in the 2007-08 season, as is conveyed by the table. The alternative would be to remove the 2007-08 season... and then remove his time at Benfica, and 2001-02 at Leiria for the same reason. That would leave an incomplete summary of his career -- hell, Benfica wouldn't even be mentioned at all. That makes no sense to me. Buttons to Push Buttons (talk | contribs) 02:43, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 8 May 2013

Jarrih (talk) 16:49, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. BryanG (talk) 19:45, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Zidane taking Real job?

Hey you GOOD PEOPLE! There is a really weird one in this entry. I would change it but, alas, it is locked. In the period where it be talking about the current season. It says that JOse might be leafing Real Madrid this summer. (We all know THIS IS GONNA HAPPEN!).

My problem is that it says that Zinedine Zidane is a gonna take JOse Merheenyo;s job. I HAVE NEVER HEARD ABOUT THAT! there is NO CITATIONS AND VERIFIEABLES in the article.

So I say: CUT OUT THE RUMOURS about Zidane (I love Zidane, by the way). If he actually windz up coaching there, I say lets put the rumours in there. But now--no rumours, no nothing!

STRIKE IT OUT! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.206.143.173 (talk) 03:58, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 24 May 2013

please he went to chelsea fc!! 211.215.191.37 (talk) 08:25, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. --ElHef (Meep?) 18:36, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

LAST EDIT.

User Boy2013 Added Some Information Which May Or May Not Be Correct In The Future, But Not Now Anyway.

Can Someone, Please, Correct It ?

Thank You.

77.54.195.36 (talk) 16:07, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

Reverted. Mattythewhite (talk) 16:32, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

Thank You, Mattythewhite.

77.54.195.36 (talk) 21:28, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

Legacy/Reception

User:SupernovaeIA: Please do not remove content unless you have a valid reason in accordance with wikipedia policy. WP:GOODFAITH has nothing to do with this, and "doesnt break NPOV but breaks neutrality" is an idiotic statement. What is not neutral is you selectively removing content so the section consists only of praise quotes, then telling editors that you don't want anything negative on his page because you think he is such a great coach. Karpouzi (talk) 02:07, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

And again. Please explain exactly what's defamatory. Mosmof (talk) 17:42, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

Putting few players as commenting Mourinho as a great coach and several players as commenting him as a horrible one IS defamatory. And it does break neutrality. Should i start putting content like this in every single coaches article? Stop putting this unsourced and negative comments for the coach. What is not neutral is anti mourinho fans like Karpuzi adding more negative quotes and removing most good ones. SupernovaeIA (talk) 20:25, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

I have also just removec CR anf robben from that list as the content was clearly exaggerated with their names, the references dont have a single word that have quoted from both players saying Jose mourinho as 'negative'.-- not liking is not the same as how he was being defamed here.SupernovaeIA (talk) 20:32, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

Apito Dourado

Why doesn't this article mention the corruption scandal Apito Dourado during the FC Porto 2003–2004 season? It happened during the Mourinho period in Porto. It's also curious that the "Golden Whistle" isn't mentioned in the FC Porto article. Is this a cover up? BenficaNNossaPaixao (talk) 16:23, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 February 2014

in the league column of the list of season under the managerial section Chelsea finished 2nd not sixth. 220.244.218.136 (talk) 20:52, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

Done: Thank you for pointing this out. – Wdchk (talk) 03:43, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Undone: On second thoughts, Mourinho left Chelsea part way through the season, as discussed earlier on this talk page. So the table does not seek to show Chelsea's position at the end of the season. But thanks anyway. – Wdchk (talk) 04:03, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

change

why did you delete the chart of competitions the one that said like W, RU, SF etc — Preceding unsigned comment added by 181.66.254.194 (talk) 04:30, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 March 2014

Please change Unbeaten home league record Between 23 February 2002 and 2 April 2011, Mourinho went 150 home league matches unbeaten: 38 (W36–D2) with Porto, 60 (W46–D14) with Chelsea, 38 (W29–D9) To Chelsea 38 (W29-D9) to 41 W31-D10) because he played two seasons (19+19=38) and 3 matched before leaving Chelsea to Inter Milan on 20th September 2007. In those 3 games he won 2 and draw 1. http://espnfc.com/team/fixtures/_/id/363/season/2007/chelsea?cc=5739 Asher dias (talk) 10:05, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. This only verifies the Chelsea ones, not the whole lot.... --Mdann52talk to me! 14:53, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 March 2014

Add two wins to 'Second unbeaten home record'. Should read: Mourinho is currently on a 47 home league matches unbeaten streak: 31 (W27–D4) with Real Madrid and 16 (W15–D1) with Chelsea. 86.178.102.138 (talk) 14:28, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

• Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(t • e • c)} 02:35, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Fourth coach to win in at least four countries?

In the introduction there is the sentence:

"The following year he won the La Liga and became the fourth coach, after Tomislav Ivić, Ernst Happel, and Giovanni Trapattoni, to have won league titles in at least four different countries: Portugal, England, Italy, and Spain."

Anyway, recently I was reading Eric Gerets biography and realized that perhaps, he should be the one to have that credit since he won the league in Belgium twice in 96-97 with Lierse and 97-98 with Club Brugge, the Dutch league also twice with PSV in 99-00 and 00-01, the Turkish league with Galatasaray in 05-06 and the Saudi league in 09-10 (one season before Mourinho's La Liga title).

Perhaps an edit on this sentence would make it more accurate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.30.230.66 (talk) 12:40, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

 Done. Tvx1 13:38, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

 Undone It's unsourced. SLBedit (talk) 15:42, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

 Done. Reinstated with source. Tvx1 16:21, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

 Undone Transfermarkt is not reliable. Please find other source. SLBedit (talk) 17:22, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

SLBedit, Why is it unreliable? Tvx1 17:42, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Because it's user generated content, and we don't use it on Wikipedia. SLBedit (talk) 17:46, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

 Done I've found another source. And here is one from one of Belgium's major broadcasters if the other one is insufficient for you. Tvx1 18:13, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed

Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Struway2 (talk) 17:29, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

Endorsements

Thia should be included in the personal life section together with other endorsements.

In 2014, Mourinho is said to be one of the most commercially marketable face in the world of football. In March 2013, José Mourinho signed an exclusive contract with Nordeus, creator of Top Eleven, making him the cover face of one of the most popular sports games on the planet.

Ivanadavidov (talk) 11:12, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

References

cynical emphasis on getting results over playing beautiful football

what his opponents regard as cynical emphasis on getting results over playing beautiful football

Did Arsene Wenger write this ?! This statement in the introduction is surely an NPOV violation and it also doesn't have a source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.145.141.250 (talk) 16:44, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 June 2015

Hello, I made a performance timeline table for all competitions that Mourinho has finished as a manager. Can I put it in the article? Thanks. 186.214.176.23 (talk) 19:55, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Just to illustrate: it's like the one they have in the Jorge Jesus article. Cheers. 186.214.176.23 (talk) 20:01, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

I think so (WP:BEBOLD). SLBedit (talk) 21:39, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

But I can't edit it. =P 186.214.176.23 (talk) 22:54, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Then shows us the source code. SLBedit (talk) 23:20, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Just post it here? All right:

Performance timeline

Key

• 1R = 1st round
• 2R = 2nd round
• 3R = 3rd round
• 4R = 4th round
• 5R = 5th round

• W = Winner
• F = Final
• RU = Runners-up
• SF = Semi-finals
• QF = Quarter-finals
• GS = Group stage

  Winners / 1st place

  Runners-up / 2nd place

Competition		League	Cup	League Cup	Super Cup	Champions League	Europa League	Intercontinental Cup/FIFA Club World Cup
Club	Season	Country				Europe (UEFA)		World (FIFA)
União de Leiria	2001–02	7th	—	—	—	—	—	—
Porto	2002–03	1st	W	—	—	—	W	—
	2003–04	1st	RU	—	W	W	—	W
Chelsea	2004–05	1st	R5	W	—	SF	—	—
	2005–06	1st	SF	R3	W	R16	—	—
	2006–07	2nd	W	W	RU	SF	—	—
Inter Milan	2008–09	1st	SF	—	W	R16	—	—
	2009–10	1st	W	—	RU	W	—	—
Real Madrid	2010–11	2nd	W	—	—	SF	—	—
	2011–12	1st	QF	—	RU	SF	—	—
	2012–13	2nd	RU	—	W	SF	—	—
Chelsea	2013–14	3rd	R5	QF	—	SF	—	—
	2014–15	1st	R4	W	—	R16	—	—

186.214.176.23 (talk) 23:28, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

 Done SLBedit (talk) 23:35, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Valeu, bicho. 186.214.176.23 (talk) 23:40, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

References

Mourinho in Barcelona

Shouldn't Mourinho be listed as an assistant manager in Barcelona during Van Gaal's spell to the club? PanosBonJovi (talk) 08:45, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Yes. SLBedit (talk) 18:07, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 December 2015

197.215.253.46 (talk) 14:57, 17 December 2015 (UTC) He's gotten sacked

he has indeed, which is why our article states:- "On 17 December, after losing nine out of sixteen league games, Mourhino was sacked by Chelsea" - Arjayay (talk) 15:08, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

Stop being so goddamn slow

He has been sacked for hours now. Come on! Chap, chap! — Preceding unsigned comment added by TK(film) (talk • contribs) 16:48, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

@TK(film): What are you on about? JMHamo (talk) 16:55, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

Obsession with the word sacked

It's not essential to use sacked when saying he left Chelsea, seem some people are obsessed that it should be included. JMHamo (talk) 11:13, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

We should aim to use the vocabulary that most precisely reflects the most reliable reference's record of events. Saying he "left" would cover many options including he resigned, his fixed-term contract finished, he retired, he was made redundant, or was sacked. The use of "sacked" conveys more information to the reader about which of these options actually happened without lengthening the article by a single word. Therefore "sacked" should be included.Dingowasher (talk) 12:06, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

The official statemen is "mutual consent", using "sacked" is just media speculation. Qed237 (talk) 12:13, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

There are two issues here: 1) was he sacked and 2) if he was sacked should it be included in the article. On the second I think that we are in agreement. On the first we must be careful to use references that conform to WP:NPOV. The most reliable source not linked to Mourinho or Chelsea is http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34670192 which clearly states that Mourinho was sacked. Please supply a more reliable source than this that says that Mourinho was not sacked and then we can discuss their relative merits. Dingowasher (talk) 12:28, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

Official statements say mutual consent. The fact that media likes to say "sacked" which they did before the official statement, does not make it true. They just did not know when their articles were published as they published it before the official statement was released. Qed237 (talk) 14:59, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

'does not make it true'. This is irrelevant by WP:TRUTH. Reliable sources are what count, and it's not up to you to say what is and isn't media speculation. But rather are those media regarded as reliable sources. Macgroover (talk) 13:08, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Unfortunately official statements from Chelsea might be biased so do not conform with WP:NPOV and therefore cannot be used. We must remember WP:VNT and only quote what reliable sources say, and cannot amend them because they "did not know when their articles were published as they published it before the official statement was released" since this constitutes a violation of WP:NOR. If there is a more reliable reference than the BBC reference saying that Mourinho was not sacked please could you share it, otherwise following proper WP editorial practice we must say that he was sacked. Dingowasher (talk) 18:13, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

I cannot find a reliable reference saying that Mourinho was not sacked and non has been forthcoming from other Editors. Therefore following WP:SILENCE and good practice of WP:BRD I will edit article to say that Mourinho was sacked.Dingowasher (talk) 13:49, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

Stop warring and find consensus. I can find many reliable sources, [8], [9], [10], [11], [12]. Qed237 (talk) 14:37, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for the references. Established wikipedia policy, WP:CITEKILL, says that basing an argument on the number of references is unhelpful, and that only the most prominent reference is needed. Therefore analyzing your suggested references:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/reports--chelsea-have-dismissed-jose-mourinho-711920.html is a source based in a different country so is not authoritative http://waltonian.com/2015/12/jose-mourinho-leaves-chelsea-by-mutual-consent/ is a local source based in a different continent so is not authoritative http://www.beinsports.com/us/soccer/video/jose-mourinho-leaves-chelsea-by-mutual-consen/158313 is a source based in a different continent so is not authoritative http://www.espnfc.com/chelsea/story/2685417/jose-mourinho-leaves-chelsea-by-mutual-consent is a source based in a different continent so is not authoritative

I have followed best practice to only consider perhaps the best suggested reference

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1563665/Jose-Mourinho-left-Chelsea-by-mutual-consent.html

however, this is not a great reference because the same source stated that Mourinho was sacked in at least four other articles in the previous few days:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/chelsea/12060234/Chelsea-news-Jose-Mourinho-pleaded-for-Roman-Abramovichs-help.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/chelsea/12060568/Chelsea-news-Jose-Mourinho-and-Cesc-Fabregas-were-allies-not-enemies.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/11974596/How-long-since-your-club-last-changed-manager-Premier-League.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/managers/jose-mourinho/12051964/Fifty-shades-of-Jose-The-changing-face-of-Mourinho.html

The other concern about using the Telegraph as a reference is that it has lower editorial standards than the BBC reference. BBC editorial requirements (http://www.bbc.co.uk/editorialguidelines/guidelines) requires at least two separate sources before they publish, telegraph requires only one. Therefore, we require a source that has editorial standard better than the BBC to overrule the BBC statement that Mourinho was sacked. I was unable to find one, but would be delighted if one exists -- do any editors know of any?

I would also advocate the avoidance of an edit war. Looking at wikipedia best practice WP:BRD established protocol is for a statement to remain in an article until the talk has reached a consensus, rather than it only be included once the talk reaches a consensus. Also WP:3RR states that such an edit should not be undone repeatedly until consensus is reached. I would suggest that we stop removing the sacked statement until we reach consensus to avoid violating this rule.Dingowasher (talk) 18:21, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

Until you can find consensus that he was sacked, the page should stay just as neutral as it was. We can all agree on the fact that ha has left the club. Qed237 (talk) 21:55, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

According to good WP practice WP:BRD and WP:3RR the page should say sacked until we find consensus. I'll restore it. By the way, have you yet found an authoritative and reliable reference to say that Mourinho was not sacked?Dingowasher (talk) 08:28, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

The page should stay just as neutral as it was, next time you will be blocked for edit warring. Qed237 (talk) 12:18, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

To help us reach consensus please would you provide an authoritative and reliable reference to confirm that Mourinho was not sacked? I thought that this matter was already settled on in the talk page by Arjayay at 15:08, 17 December 2015 (UTC)Dingowasher (talk) 19:25, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

@JMHamo: Who started this discussion, do you have anything to add? Qed237 (talk) 20:10, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Other editors insist on adding mutual consent as the reason. Qed237 (talk) 20:14, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

But as that editor noted, "sacked" was what he was, in reality, the "by mutual consent" is just corporate-speak. But how about 'was let go, "by mutual consent" according to the club' or something similar as a compromise? It's a bit tedious having this article locked... Dickdock (talk) 11:08, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Sacked is the correct word here. It is used by BBC Guardian and practically every other major UK publication - they may use the term 'by mutual consent' to indicate that was Chelsea's press release. The BBC use the word sacked when referring to what the Papers say about it. Discussion about what is 'truth' goes against Wikipedia policy as editors may not agree what is truth WP:NOTTRUTH. The policy is what can be verified by reliable sources, and those sources indicate he was 'sacked'. (It would be scarcely believable that he chose to leave mid-season which another term would suggest). Macgroover (talk) 13:05, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Macgroover is quite right, WP:NOTTRUTH is important here, as editors we must focus on what the most authoritative reference says, which is that Mourinho was sacked.Dingowasher (talk) 20:47, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

I Should say something now, same here. Why everybody decided the words by news instead of official statement? It also occurs at 2013-14 Tottenham Hotspur when Villas-Boas left the club by "mutual consent" according to the club statement, but BBC said he was sacked, everybody use the word "sacked". Why? Raymond "Giggs" Ko 06:57, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

See the final section in https://www.lyonsdavidson.co.uk/lyons-davidsons-bristol-employment-solicitor-team-ask-football-managers-employment-rights/ . These are employment solicitors who tell us that "mutual consent" means that the club and manager have agreed the financial compensation package following the sacking.Dingowasher (talk) 08:51, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

If the club sent an official statement saying that he left in a "mutual consent", then he wasn't sacked. The club is the one who actually knows how its own deals go, not BBC nor any other media articles. I say we should stick by what the club actually says rather than raising speculation by gathering mediatic headlines. MYS77 ^✉ 17:51, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

That's incorrect; see the link directly above, which explains the meaning behind "mutual consent". Mattythewhite (talk) 17:56, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

@Mattythewhite: I don't quite get how sacked is the same as by mutual consent. As far as I know (and as far as I could understand), there's a difference between both things. When a manager is sacked, the club pays his release clause and so on; however, when there's a mutual consent, both agree to rescind the contract with (or without) a compensation fee. Examples: 1 - Joan Carrillo's dismissal at Almería: his contract had a Lamborghini Miura as a compensation fee if sacked (as he was), and the president of the club had to "pay his fee". That's a manager who was sacked. 2- Enderson Moreira's dismissal at Santos: he reached an agreement with the club's president to waive his compensation fee when rescinding his contract. That's a manager who left by mutual consent. MYS77 ^✉ 18:13, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

I invited Wikipedia:WikiProject Football to this discussion. Qed237 (talk) 17:58, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

If Chelsea and/or Mourinho describe it in official press releases as "mutual consent" then it's mutual consent, regardless of what words the media uses to try to spin it. It's perfectly reasonable that both parties agreed the arrangement wasn't working out and change was needed, just because that left one of the parties unemployed doesn't necessarily mean it was a sacking.--John, AF4JM (talk) 18:19, 28 December 2015 (UTC) (in response to User:Qed237's invite)

we must remember WP:VNT so what matters is what the most authoritative source says. BBC says it was sacked http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/34670192 so we must state that he was sacked. The statement by employment solicitors above explains how "mutual consent" means that he was sacked and then agreed to the financial compensation package. Dingowasher (talk) 19:10, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

@Dingowasher: No consensus that BBC source is the "most authoritative" one, as well there's no consensus over the manner of his departure at all... If we are sticking with media, then why bother to wait for official confirmation when related to signings? MYS77 ^✉ 19:25, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Per NPOV, why not just say he left the club, a move Chelsea claimed was "by mutual consent" although several media outlets reported that he had been sacked"? Number 57 21:02, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Adding both "mutual consent" (as per the press release) and "sacked" (as per the BBC article) seems reasonable to me based on the sources provided. You would be hard pressed to find a press release regarding a managerial sacking which refers to such a move by this terminology. To be "sacked" is a slang term. LCrowter (talk) 15:39, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Since sources say both I agree with Number 57 why not stay neutral, like the current lead that states "came to an end on...". If we should explain how he left (including both "mutual consent" and "sacked") it should be in the body and not in the lead. Qed237 (talk) 16:33, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

That seems reasonable enough to me. LCrowter (talk) 16:40, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

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