Talk:James, Earl of Wessex

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Earl of Wessex and Forfar

Just putting this here for discussion. Technically, his courtesy title is Earl of Wessex and Forfar. This is consistent with other heirs where multiple and equal subsidiary titles exist. For example, the Duke of Norfolk's heir is styled 'Earl of Arundel and Surrey' and he (and his predecessors) have been referred to as such. That said, I note that on Wikipedia, he has been styled Earl of Arundel alone.

I suppose there may be a case for waiting until he is formally referred to by the joint courtesy title (as was the case with his father at Prince Philip's funeral), but I just thought I'd flag this. 2A00:23C8:4383:9301:4D40:BEBD:4986:E225 (talk) 16:54, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Does that apply when the highest peerage is non hereditary or only based on the highest hereditary one? I genuinely don't know. ~~The current 2 listed sources for him having the Earldoms as a courtesy title(s) both fail verification~~. I'm not aware of any precedent for a non-hereditary title higher than a life peer, I'm not even sure if the child of a life peer gets the curtesy precedence of a child of a Baron. Gecko G (talk) 01:16, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Correction: Upon re-reading they are not failed verifications after all, ignore. Gecko G (talk) 01:20, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, children of life peers (usually Barons) are afforded the same courtesy style (i.e. The Honourable XX XX). 2A00:23C8:4383:9301:A91E:996F:2BBC:1E19 (talk) 11:17, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Normally, even if there are multiple titles of the rank used for the courtesy title, only one is used. See for example the Duke of Norfolk, who is also Earl of Arundel, Earl of Surrey and Earl of Norfolk, which heir apparent is simply known as Earl of Arundel, not as Earl of Arundel, Surrey and Norfolk. 2003:DE:772F:7169:51BF:159B:E6FD:9AB9 (talk) 09:57, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If I had read more carefully, I would have realised, that you already used the Duke of Norfolk as example. His heir apparent is usually simple styled Earl of Arundel, could you provide sources, where the current heir apparent is styled Arundel and Surrey? 2003:DE:772F:7169:51BF:159B:E6FD:9AB9 (talk) 10:04, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

One example for the present heir would be: Henry Fitzalan-Howard, Earl of Arundel and Surrey, is the new President of St Barnabas House and Chestnut Tree House in Sussex | The Argus. Interestingly, the Wikipedia articles for the 15th and 16th Dukes of Norfolk both state that they were styles as 'Earl of Arundel and Surrey' before inheriting the title. However, I appreciate that Wikipedia itself cannot be used as a source (unhelpfully, both the 15th and 16th Dukes succeeded at a young age (12 and 9 respectively), so public references are likely to be limited - the closest might be from the Royal Collection Trust: Richard N Speaight (1875-1938) - Her Grace the Duchess of Norfolk with the Earl of Arundel and Surrey and the Lady Rachael Howard (rct.uk)) 2A00:23C8:4383:9301:A91E:996F:2BBC:1E19 (talk) 11:16, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think, that James would use the courtesy title of Earl of Wessex. I think he would continue to be called Viscount Severn.

It is not mandatory for Heirs to take highest subsidary title of their fathers.

As is with Marquess of Londonderry and Dukes of Buccleuch and Queensbury.

I think we will just have to wait for Buckingham palace, and see what title they use for James. 142.161.139.18 (talk) 04:14, 14 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Another thing, most probably Duke of Edinburgh would still be referred to as Earl of Forfar in Scotland. So I don't think James would use the Forfar title for that reason. 142.161.139.18 (talk) 04:44, 14 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

He is already styled Earl of Wessex according to Buckingham Palace - that much is confirmed. Heirs automatically adopt the subsidiary title by default unless otherwise stated (e.g. Prince Archie would automatically have been styled Earl of Dumbarton from birth, but his parents chose not to use it).

Edinburgh and Forfar are both in Scotland, so Prince Edward is known as the Duke of Edinburgh there (that's also confirmed). If anything, he 'should' be known as the Earl of Wessex in England and Ulster, but historically England has just used the most senior title irrespective of origin (e.g. Prince Philip was known as Duke of Edinburgh, not Baron Greenwich). 2A00:23C8:4383:9301:AD72:6122:521D:728D (talk) 20:09, 14 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

the highest Scotish title is Duke of Edinburgh (Scotlands capital city), Earl of Forfar will not be used Jord656 (talk) 11:08, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Lord Wessex?

Im sure his title is not "Lord" as suggested under his photo Jord656 (talk) 19:57, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

British peerage titles (I think Marquess and lower, not sure I've seen this occur with any dukes but someone can correct me) and courtesy titles often shorten the title to Lord Title after the first mention. So the Earl of Snowdon can appropriately be called Lord Snowdon, the young Viscount Wellesley can be Lord Wellesley and so on. You just need to mention the full title first. Piratesswoop (talk) 13:26, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Radley College

Is James at Radley? The only source I can find is this forum, which is hardly WP:RS. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:35, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Even Royal Central doesn't give any (unreliable) mention of it. But is it even generally acceptable, re WP:BLP, to report school/ college details for minors? Similarly with the image of him with his fellow cadets, which is not a public event? Martinevans123 (talk) 15:24, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see any harm in reporting the school he goes to. It's been done for William's children and other royal children from other countries some of whom are far more important than he is (constitutionally I mean). The image can only stay if its license tag is valid. With regards to Radley College, I have not found any sources reporting on the matter. We can either keep the cn tag or discard it completely. Keivan.f^Talk 15:43, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As has been noted, the upload page for the cadet image offers no evidence whatsoever that it shows James. User:Heyayhaqyyaha, who has been active on Wikipedia since only yesterday, and who has made a total of 21 edits, has provided no explanation there. The image is categorised under Commons Cat: "Unidentified children". Martinevans123 (talk) 15:53, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think it has to be nominated for deletion on the Commons so people can determine if its copyright status and content is legitimate. Keivan.f^Talk 16:13, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Um, the licence is a "Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International licence". As the upload Source has been labelled "Own work", I don't see any problem with that licence. But unless it has been published more widely, by a legitimate publisher, I don't see how anyone can gauge the validity of the content, i.e. that it is indeed James. The caption is just "James during his military course in late 2023", not even "James, Earl of Essex"? Thanks Martinevans123 (talk) 16:30, 22 January 2024 (UTC) p.s. I think the image has also appeared on Twitter.[reply]

That's the problem. They do have to provide evidence to show that it's their work given the fact that it has circulated elsewhere on the Internet. Keivan.f^Talk 17:01, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, so who's going to nominate for deletion? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:02, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Anyone can do it. It you can't, I'll take care of it myself later today. Keivan.f^Talk 18:48, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Re WP:BITE, as a courtesy, we should ask User:Heyayhaqyyaha to provide any comments here they might wish, before we do? Martinevans123 (talk) 19:02, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Absolutely. I'll wait to see if they'll respond to the questions here. Keivan.f^Talk 01:58, 23 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Martinevans123 Well, they have been active since you pinged them here, yet I see no response. They have also uploaded this photo of Eliza Lopes (Queen Camilla's granddaughter), which again seems to have no sources listed. Keivan.f^Talk 20:17, 23 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The photo supposedly showing James has now been nominated for deletion by another user. The same fate probably awaits the photo showing Eliza. I'm just waiting for their response here. Keivan.f^Talk 20:25, 23 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks for the info. It looks like the sort of photo you'd see in a school magazine. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:27, 23 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And now removed as a copyvio. Not "own work". And note User:Heyayhaqyyaha now indef blocked. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:30, 26 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just for the record, the picture appears here on Instagram, on 12 January 2024. But it looks like things may have been planned for some time before that. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:46, 29 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Radley College is now given in this source. But why is there a hidden note in the infobox saying "Please do not make his current school public!" ? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:48, 17 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ExtraEmphasis, re: this edit, with the edit summary "Removed his current school as the wishes were not to have his current school due to privacy concerns", where do we find these "wishes" exactly? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:35, 23 March 2024 (UTC) p.s. ExtraEmphasis, that was your first ever edit at Wikipedia?[reply]

Getting no reply in over a week, I intend to add it back into the text and info box. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:38, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And now, the first two edits of User:SeriousFoxx, here and here. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:14, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have blocked User:WholeGrainBag, User:SeriousFoxx, and User:EstrangedEagle as sock puppets of User:ExtraEmphasis. DrKay (talk) 06:55, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Martinevans123: - OK Magazine? Can you not find a better source than that? Mjroots (talk) 17:45, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've only spent a few hours, over the source of the past four months (in fact since this topic kicked off). By all means find a better one. I'd be very impressed. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:46, 19 April 2024 (UTC) p.s. if you think that source is too unreliable, we'll just have to take it out again...[reply]

It was mentioned by both Sophie and Edward they dont want people knowing James' school as he is still 16 and gave no consent to people spreading doesnt it qualify as illegal acts? AshFlux (talk) 00:43, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

AshFlux, are you by any chance related to IP 82.18.216.191, who has just removed that information yet again, or to User:WholeGrainBag, User:SeriousFoxx, and User:EstrangedEagle, who have all been banned as sock puppets of User:ExtraEmphasis? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:17, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Im not related to any off them. Im guessing they're the same person? AshFlux (talk) 15:59, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Who knows. But you seem to be a very obvious part of an emerging pattern here? Martinevans123 (talk) 16:09, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So has this happened before? I usualy work on the Percy Jackson wiki and we had to remove the schools of peoples biography as some people are threatening to visit schools, I think the Wales kid's schools have been changed too? AshFlux (talk) 16:13, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"some people are threatening to visit schools"?? Martinevans123 (talk) 16:15, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah some guy called "fefinhozip5" on instagram who is confirmed to be 33 in brazil and has been sending gRape threats towards James AshFlux (talk) 16:22, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Then you need to contact the police or perhaps warn the school authorities? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:24, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I did not find the person nor have proof of it, Radley already knows and have removed James' picture of there main account not from his social account (Socials are the School House System)-Ash AshFlux (talk) 16:26, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, @Martinevans123, I double checked who owns those accounts it going in a pattern of all of the emails linking back to a Radley School Official email? Idk if thats normal, so reply if you want more info! AshFlux (talk) 16:21, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And how did you manage to check that exactly? Martinevans123 (talk) 16:23, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Radley College uses Outlook services, And if you use your email it shows which socials its linked with, When i used my school email, I tried to message "RadleinSociety" to email about my next function it shows link to the wiki account. If thats any help! AshFlux (talk) 16:28, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Whatever private detective work you might want to do, to protect anyone from rape threats, involving the email system at Radley College, has nothing whatever to do with this Wikipedia article. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:32, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is kind off rude... I'm apart of the Radlein Society for families who need support? I'm a fan of James and have been up to date with events, I just infered Radley is trying to change the school thing, I dint mean anything. Sorry. AshFlux (talk) 16:58, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: user now indefinitely blocked as WP:NOTHERE. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:58, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sophie and Edward don't get to overturn WP:NOTCENSORED. Through no fault of his own, as a member of the British Royal Family, James is a public figure. It would be somewhat contradictory to report his official public appearances here but not be able to report where he goes to school. All of this information is in the public domain. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:22, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 3 June 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. DrKay (talk) 14:07, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

James, Earl of Wessex → James Mountbatten-Windsor, Earl of Wessex – Given that James is not a "Prince", his surname should be in the article. Omnis Scientia (talk) 08:57, 3 June 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal (talk) 09:11, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support The lack of a surname is ridiculous, makes him sound like a medieval person. Killuminator (talk) 22:14, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

His father isn't a "medieval person"? Nor his brother? Martinevans123 (talk) 08:43, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

They don't use their surname, his sister does. Killuminator (talk) 14:09, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's because she doesn't have a title and calling herself Lady Louise without a surname would just look weird! Although technically she is HRH Princess Louise of Edinburgh, she doesn't use it. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:46, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's not medieval tho, is it? SferaEbbasta87 (talk) 17:50, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME and WP:NCROY § Other royals item 4. Rosbif73 (talk) 08:04, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per Rosbif73. Also, he is a prince. He just doesn't use the title. He's no different from his parents, uncles, aunt or cousins, who also don't use their surname and don't have it in their Wikipedia page titles. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:17, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Rosbif73. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:30, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as the very rationale of this move is faulty. He is a prince. He is the grandson of a monarch. See citation 25 and 26 in the article. On another note, news articles refer to him without his surname: here, here, here, and I am sure other sources. cookie monster 755 04:34, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Oppose per MOS:ROYAL and as outlined above. Bgv. (talk) 09:09, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@BilledMammal, you can close this as "Not moved". The opinion is near unanimous here. Omnis Scientia (talk) 09:54, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps Killuminator would like to comment again, before it's formally closed? Martinevans123 (talk) 10:06, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No point, you can snowclose it. Killuminator (talk) 13:52, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. Also, to clarify, Lord Wessex is a British prince. -- Willthacheerleader18 (talk) 11:59, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Ancestry

User:Imthethenextjamesbond has now removed "...youngest grandchild of Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh" three times. The same change has now also been made at Lady Louise Windsor. Should they be mentioned in the lead section or not not? Given that there are only eight people in the world with these extremely notable grandparents, I would argue that they should be mentioned. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:20, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]