Talk:Ivana Trump/Archive 1

Archive 1

Summary lacks her business and design achievements

I don't know much about Trump, but reading the article, it looks to me that she has been a significant businesswoman and designer. Shouldn't one, or both, be in the summary?

eg. "is a former Olympic athlete, socialite, designer, businesswoman and fashion model Javaman59 (talk) 11:06, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Tone/POV fixing

Miscellaneous extracts from the article as of Sept. 01, 2006:

Born under a Communist regime, young Ivana realized the value of effort as she worked hard in her academic and athletic pursuits.

Mindful of the grief she would cause her family if she defected, Ivana married and divorced a childhood sweetheart in order to attain a foreign passport.

She was known for her professionalism, likeable personality, and beauty.

Together, the Trumps became a force in New Yorks high society. With their "Can Do" attitude that epitomised the 1980s

After many bitter miles of gossip columns Ivana was shocked when her father died of a massive heart attack. Hoping to mend fences Donald stood by her side at the funeral, the slate was wiped clean in the Trump marriage and their divorce was settled soon after.

For all of her success however, Ivana Trump has never been a woman to rest on her laurels.

Alas they did not make it to anniversary #2.

A woman in perpetual motion, Ivana Trump lives between New York City, London, Palm Beach and St. Tropez.''

Ugh. This borders on nauseating. Am I mistaken, or is this a biographical encyclopedia article about Ivana Trump, and, in fact, not a public relations exercise in slavishly showering the woman with praise?

Ivana realized the value of effort? Mindful of the grief she would cause her family? Known for her professionalism, likeable personality, and beauty? "Can Do" attitude? Bitter miles of gossip columns? Never been a woman to rest on her laurels? Alas they did not make it to anniversary #2? A woman in perpetual motion?

Seriously. Would anyone who knows anything about her and is willing to try to keep a neutral tone and point of view please clean this article up, and cite some sources if they exist? Please? --S0uj1r0 09:51, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately several of these grim phrases remained when I looked at the article today. I have removed them. Please, can we have no more egregious goo about 'can do attitudes' and how lovely Ivana Trump's personality is? Wikipedia is not a marketing tool, and filling it with this kind of pap just makes the subject look pathetic, desperate and control-freakish. It is perfectly legitimate to add an external link to Ivana Trump's own website if she has one, where no doubt her admirers may wax lyrical about her perpetual motions at whatever length they please. Other than that, please try to remember that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. Thank you! -- TinaSparkle 10:13, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Gay Icon Project

In my effort to merge the now-deleted list from the article Gay icon to the Gay icons category, I have added this page to the category. I engaged in this effort as a "human script", adding everyone from the list to the category, bypassing the fact-checking stage. That is what I am relying on you to do. Please check the article Gay icon and make a judgment as to whether this person or group fits the category. By distributing this task from the regular editors of one article to the regular editors of several articles, I believe that the task of fact-checking this information can be expedited. Thank you very much. Philwelch 22:18, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

It is servile marketing now

Current servile tone of the article was created by 64.59.144.21 on 2005/Sep/20. [1].

The IP is shared so it it not possible to track it back. It looks like copy of official bio added by someone being well paid for it. Tone of the article should be made neutral.

The sentence:

While married to Donald Trump, Ivana was parodied repeatedly (along with her husband) in Spy Magazine during the 1980s.

deleted by 64.59.144.21 looks like worth to be reinserted. Pavel Vozenilek 09:08, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

$3 million wedding

The $3 million wedding had over 400 guests including her ex-husband, Donald Trump, who hosted it at his Florida Mar-A-Lago estate. Trump's daughter Ivanka, of the reality show "The Apprentice," was her maid of honor.Trump wore Leviev 71.76 carat diamond necklace and 6.39 carat oval-cut diamond earrings, a 140 carat Leviev fancy intense yellow diamond set, on the first night, and for a post wedding dinner reception, a Leviev diamond bracelet, earrings and necklace totalling over 150 carats. --Florentino floro (talk) 09:42, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

One paragraph states that she retained 49% interest in the Mar-a-Lago home and the next paragraph says that it is Donald's home. I think a 49% interest in a property should entitle one to have an event there every so often without it looking like a favor from the other owners. Erikdhanson (talk) 15:03, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Date of Birth

Someone has changed her date of birth in the past couple of weeks from 1944 to 1949. Do we know why? The change is unreferenced. Technohead1980 (talk) 23:59, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

External links modified

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Ivana Trump has an official Instagram account: @itsivanatrump :) Zoe Pandora (talk) 12:11, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

Insufficient timespan

The article has her moving to Montreal in 1975, spending two years there, then moving to New York (presumably in 1977) to promote the Montreal Olympics, meeting Donald Trump there. But the Montreal Olympics were in 1976, and by April 1977 she had already married Trump. Does Not Compute. My guess is that she arrived in Montreal earlier than 1975, but it's only a guess and I have no time to look it up. For the moment I'm going to remove the reference to 1975 and let the rest of it stand. --Haruo (talk) 14:40, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

Marriage to Alfred Winklemeier

She married Alfred Winklemeier for citizenship as a way to escape Moravia — Preceding unsigned comment added by Terasec (talk • contribs) 21:58, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

MONEY

How much money does she have?--68.118.202.199 (talk) 23:48, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Divorce and final settlement dates for Donald and Ivana's divorce

Hi, I have gone round and round trying to sort out the actual date of divorce for Donald and Ivana and came up with the following:

The Trump's divorce was granted in 1990 with the final financial settlement made in 1992.

References

This article states that the divorce was finalized in 1992, but that an attorney was hired in 1991 - I am guessing to make the final financial settlement. I just thought I'd check in here and see if the info in the blurb is correct, or if there is something I'm missing.

As an FYI, I also posted this on Talk:Donald Trump, but am assuming there are a different group of editors working on the article currently. And, also thought that if you wanted, you could update this article as well. Thanks so much!--CaroleHenson (talk) 23:59, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

The sources about the final divorce proceedings state that her case was granted on the grounds of "cruel and inhuman treatment", yet the article fails to mention this. To give more context to the court's deceision, also reflecting on the rape accusations mentioned before which she testified under oath, the passage should read:

"The divorce was finalized in 1992 on the grounds of "cruel and inhuman treatment".[18]

Pretty important point about this divorce, if you ask me. 188.108.152.101 (talk) 11:58, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

The article currently says that her father died in October 1990, and she and Donald Trump attended his funeral together. Then, that Christmas, during a family vacation in Aspen, she encountered Marla Maples. But the article later says the divorce was granted in 1990. (The news article cited for this last fact is archived here.) —⁠184.192.92.111 (talk) 22:52, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

PRESIDENT-ELECT?

Ivana Trump was divorced from Donald Trump in 1992. She was NEVER married to 'President-Elect' Donald Trump. She was married to failing businessman Donald Trump. The insistence that he be listed as "future president" is a POV edit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JackFloridian (talk • contribs) 15:25, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

You're absolutely right. His future position has nothing to do with Ivana Trump and has too long been in the article. --SamWinchester000 (talk) 22:41, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 17 November 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved per WP:SNOW. WP:NAC Nohomersryan (talk) 15:03, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

---

Ivana Trump → Ivana Zelníčková – Ivana has divorced with Donald Trump. Similar to Marla Malpes, it should be renamed to her birth name 121.202.139.198 (talk) 07:57, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. She still uses "Trump" as her legal surname. Linguist ^Moi? Moi. 08:02, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose per Linguist111 [also Malpes → Maples in the IP's nomination text]. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 08:38, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose speedy close, we don't need a banner on this article for 7 days saying a move is happening which will never happen. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:03, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

---

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Semi-protected edit request on 30 January 2017

Add {{pp-blp|small=yes}}. 219.78.191.75 (talk) 08:28, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

Done DRAGON BOOSTER ★ 08:33, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

Rape allegations in sworn deposition

There appears to be no mention of Ivana Trump's allegation that her husband, now President Donald Trump, raped her. This allegation was made in a sworn 1990 divorce deposition. Here is one reference but there are many - http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/10/24/documenting-trumps-abuse-of-women

President Trump's lawyer at the time made the claim that it was impossible for a husband to rape his wife as there was clear court rulings as such. However, that is not the case as a New York court ruled in the 80s declaring spousal rape illegal.

Anyway, it seems strange to me that an article on a former wife of the President of the United States would omit this well documented fact. Should a section on the rape allegation and denial be added to this article? Ronald Joe Record (talk) 17:19, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

I think, it should. It is a reliable fact that a book, using official documents, states that and is not ignored by the media anymore. --SamWinchester000 (talk) 13:44, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Ancestry

It might be worth noting she is of Jewish ancestry. 4m&ms (talk) 05:25, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

is she? If not why is it missing from this puff piece that treats this individual like a sort of grandee? Actio (talk) 22:55, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

@Actio: We require reliable sources before we can add such claims to the article. In the absence of reliable sources, such claims are violations of Wikipedia's policies on Biography of living persons, even when they appear only on a Talk page. General Ization ^Talk 23:05, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

Twasn't my idea to add it but following up on the wholly UNsupported claim of previous user, which went unanswered Actio (talk) 21:44, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

NEW ITEM:

She was born in Czechoslovakia. Her father was Czech but no info about her mother, inferring her mom wasn't Czech. Not sure why dad's nationality is mentioned, but doing so without similar info about mom .... Thanks RaqiwasSushi (talk) 22:32, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Her mom was Austrian. --SamWinchester000 (talk) 01:08, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

Although the linked article claims that, I have doubts her mother was Austrian. There were some articles about Marie in Czech news recently, and they never mention any connection with Austria, only that Marie Francová was born in Czech town "Velké Pavlovice", and currently lives in other Czech town "Zlín". Marie Francová is also a clearly Czech, not Austrian, name. Marie's mother was according to myheritage.com born as "Procinger", which sounds german, so maybe she was originally from Austria, but even if that is the case, I don't think that makes Marie Francová Austrian. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ottodostal (talk • contribs) 22:17, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

@Actio, why not try and do your own research? Anyway, her daughter "converted" to Judaism. Nobody can become Jewish by conversion. You need to have a Jewish mother in order to be considered Jewish. 4m&ms (talk) 11:17, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

First TV appearance

In 1970 Ivana Trump had her first TV appearance in Episode 3 of the Czechoslowakian-German series Pan Tau. See [2], [3], [4] and [5] (YouTube). --SamWinchester000 (talk) 23:29, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

Ivana Trump is Patrilineally Jewish, Per Her Exclusively-Ashkenazi Jewish Surname, Per Ancestry.com

Per Ancestry, "Zelnick" is Ashkenazi Jewish:

"Jewish (eastern Ashkenazic): occupational name from Yiddish tselnik ‘haberdashery’ or from Polish celnik ‘tax collector’. Americanized spelling of Slovenian Zelnik, a nickname or topographic name from zelje ‘cabbage’."

Thus, Ivana Trump has the right to be considered a Patrilineal Czech Jew. As for Franc:

"French: from a Germanic personal name derived from the ethnic name for a Frank. French: nickname or status name from franc ‘free’ (usually denoting a freed slave). Slovenian and Croatian (northwestern Croatia): from the personal name Franc, Slavic form of German Franz, all from Latin Franciscus (see Francis). Polish, Czech, and Slovak: from the German personal name Franz."

By the way, other European-language surnames that belong exclusively or almost exclusively to Jews. Such names are Munka (as in my own family, as it is exclusively Jewish in Eastern Europe) and Chesnick (Croatian-English rendering "Cesnik" (e.g., Sister Cathy's father was Slovenian-American Jew with Ashkenazi Jewish ties, as Southeastern European Jews are usually Sephardic.).

100.16.223.53 (talk) 04:51, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

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Divorce settlement

She was supposed to have negotiated a record-breaking divorce settlement from Trump. But there is no mention of the amount. Valetude (talk) 16:28, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 November 2018

Change "Their divorce, in a deposition for which she accused him of rape and of pulling out handfuls of her hair, was settled in 1991," to "Their divorce, in a deposition for which she accused him of rape and of pulling out handfuls of her hair, was settled in 1991. However in 2018, in a TV interview on Good Morning Britain she stated that Donald Trump never touched her badly and that it was in fact the lawyers who had suggested to make these false accusations."

I think if that's true then it deserves to be mentioned. I'm not a big fan of Trump, but if those accusations were false, it deserves to be mentioned. You can watch the interview here (the relevant information is at 6:00) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20q1e5lIF6A 94.174.18.104 (talk) 21:42, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

 Done--B dash (talk) 06:56, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

Official Account Of Ivana Trump

Ivana Trump has an official Instagram account @itsivanatrump. It’s followed by the real Ivanka Trump (her daughter) and Lara Trump (her daughter-in-law). Also by other celebrities. I believe it should be added on Wikipedia, because I my self like to follow celebrities on social media. Zoe Pandora (talk) 12:13, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• Ivana Trump wearing Lloyd Klein with Joan Collins (15678729390).jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 16:43, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

DMY Layout Not MDY on Main Page. Edit requesting.

Any country throughout the landmasses of Europe always have the DMY format, NEVER MDY. Czech born has to have the layout.

Same for Slovenian born Melania who already has done to her page. Yes both of them are the only members of the Trump family that didn't originate from the United States.

Adios,

67.81.163.178 (talk) 13:38, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

 Not done Virtually all of her notability derives from her association with Trump, who is distinctly American. She has lived in the U.S. at least since 1977 when she married Trump, and few of the dates in the article come before 1977. All of her children were born in New York City. She has been a U.S. citizen since 1988. All of this, combined, outweighs her country of origin for purposes of date format.
Same for Slovenian born Melania who already has done to her page. If somebody has attempted to change Melania Trump to DMY, it has been changed back to MDY. ―Mandruss ☎ 17:00, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

Some interesting things missing on Ivana Trump's Biography

Last night I watched the first episode of the Netflix documentary "Trump: An American Dream". His former chaffeur states, that Ivana Trump got a college degree. The article states she attended University, but there is noting mentioned that she graduated. It would be interesting to include that she did not graduate.

It is written about Eric, that he is not fluent in Czech, because his grandparents became fluent in English. Did they relocate to the USA? It would be interesting to mention this.

Furthermore if she became a US citizen in 1988, did she gave up her Austrian citizenship? Does she hold dual nationality?

Regards,--Da Vinci Nanjing (talk) 14:09, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

Not a Czech-American

Ms. Trump was born in Czechoslovakia. She was not born in America as the the child of Czeck parents. I think to say she is Czechoslovakian-born is a more accurate way to describe her. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:6000:130D:4A6B:28EF:AAED:6A10:A21 (talk) 14:35, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

Dead link & possible remedy.

AUTHORS: Citation #39. "Mak, Tim (July 27, 2015). "Ex-Wife: Donald Trump Made Me Feel 'Violated' During Sex"". The Daily Beast. Retrieved May 10, 2017. no longer goes anywhere, nor is it found when searching The Daily Beast website itself.

The following article popped up as a possible substitute. Does it bear the information that you want to impart? "Ex-Wife: Donald Trump Made Me Feel ‘Violated’ During Sex" - https://www.thedailybeast.com/ex-wife-donald-trump-made-me-feel-violated-during-sex — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wordreader (talk) 16:25, 28 October 2020 (UTC) <!

corrected link within article as per suggestion. Cedar777 (talk) 19:41, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

Unexplained deletion 9 Nov 2020

this edit deleted content that probably should not have been. I've done my 1 RR for today. Adakiko (talk) 11:56, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

It seems important to included Ivana's children in the info box . . . but it is less certain whether the children's names warrant a mention in the lede. I did not add that info to the article nor did I delete it but thought it was worth addressing the matter here at talk as it seems some editors (for unknown reasons) want to delete all mention of the children. Ivana is a public figure that was widely known in the 1990s as a business woman who reinvented herself after a very public divorce. It strikes me as inappropriate to define her so prominently by her children without mentioning her business accomplishments first. If their names are restored, it makes more sense to mention them in the context of Ivana's most recent book, Raising Trump. Kind Regards, Cedar777 (talk) 20:28, 9 November 2020 (UTC)