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Archive 1

Iragi Kurdistan

Please restore the article Iraqi Kurdistan, as the current REDIRECT to Kurdistan is not accurate, since the former only refers to the Kurdish areas of northern Iraq. Also the REDIRECT in the Kurdistan (disambiguation) is also wrong. It should be Kurdistan Region of Iraq or Iraqi Kurdistan. Also the name for the existing article Kurdish Autonomous Region isnot accurate since this name was only used during the former Ba'ath regime in the 70's and 80's. Such a term is not used in Iraq anymore. Here is the reference to the name of the region in the new constitution of Iraq:

CHAPTER ONE: REGIONS

Article 113:

First: This Constitution shall approbate the region of Kurdistan and its existing regional and federal authorities, at the time this constitution comes into force.

Article 137:

Legislation enacted in the region of Kurdistan since 1992 shall remain in force, and decisions issued by the government of the region of Kurdistan - including court decisions and agreements - shall be considered valid unless it is amended or annulled pursuant to the laws of the region of Kurdistan by the competent entity in the region, provided that they do not contradict with the constitution.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/12/AR2005101201450.html Heja Helweda 23:43, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

A suggested solution

I suggest we create a page called Geopolitical disputes regarding Kurdistan and put all sides of each argument there. Then, at the top of each disputed Kurd or Kurdistan related page, we can put a link which says "See also Geopolitical disputes regarding Kurdistan". What about this? Merecat 22:36, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

This dispute does not include Iranian Kurdistan. Unlike Turkey or Syria, there is NO sensivity among Iranians regarding Kurdistan. Diyako Talk + 22:59, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Which articles should have the tag 'Category:Kurdistan'

All, please see the discussion at Category talk:Kurdistan (Which articles should have the tag 'Category:Kurdistan'), and weigh-in if you like. Thanks, --Moby 14:04, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Khomeini Jahad Quote

Does anyone have a source for it? Also shouldn't the article mention a few things about the looting and masscres of Iranian soldiers in Kurdish areas in Iran during the beginning of the revolution?Nokhodi 04:36, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

North Khorasan Province

  1. The two maps here: Demographics of Iran suggest that a large number of people identifying themselve culturally or otherwise as Kurds live in North Khorasan Province and part of the province to the East of it.
  2. Seymour Hersh refers to the US provoking violent ethnic conflict among Kurds in the northeast of Iran: http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/060417fa_fact and the Kurds, in the northeast.
  3. an Amnesty International urgent action message http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engMDE130372006 claims that most Kurds in Iran live in the north-eastern provinces" (but continue to say "neighbouring Iraq and Turkey", which is inconsistent).

Did Seymour Hersh make an error (since it would probably be easier for the US to infiltrate through the Iraq and Turkey borders than the Turkmenistan border)?

Did Amnesty just make a chance error? Or did it just badly summarise the (apparent) fact that most Kurds in Iran live in the north-west, but some live in the north-east?

In any case, this present article - Iranian Kurdistan - doesn't seem to talk about the Kurds in North Khorasan and the Demographics of Iran maps. Maybe someone who knows should add more info?

Hmmmm... both of those maps are CIA maps (at least, as far as wikipedia licensing questions are concerned).

Maybe the CIA is wrong?

Boud 14:37, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, Seymour Hersh made a mistake. He should have said northwest of Iran. Although some Kurds also live in northeast of Iran as well (north of Khorasan), those Kurds are descendants of exiled tribes in Safavid period and the traditional Kurdish inhabited lands are located in western Iran. Also Amensty made a mistake too. It mentiones West Azerbaijan province and town of Bokan in the northwest of Iran, then uses the wrong word northeast. For Kurdish areas of Middle East look at this map [1].Heja Helweda 21:06, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Reform movement and the problem of Kurds

I am removing the mention of Luristan from the end of the second paragraph. Luristan is not a predominately Kurdish province; its predominately Luri :). . —Preceding unsigned comment added by DFront21 (talk • contribs) 00:37, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Sunni Mosque in Tehran

[2] [3] Isnt this a Sunni mosque? It has one Minaret...Khosrow II 04:43, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Kurdish-Iranian relations

The title of this article is wrong, it discusses the history of Kurds and Iranians from very early times and even when Kurds were not under Iranian rule. The best possible alternative is => Kurdo-Iranian relations. Besides although we have a Kurdistan 'in Iran' there is nothing like Iranian Kurdistan (exept for the new province of Kurdistan). This also goes for the so-called Turkish Kurdistan. this is not an accurate term. a better term can be => Kurdo-Turkish relations.

Awat 12:49, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Those regions are now called by those names, since they form parts of Iran or Turkey. Although, the governments do not recognize it, however it is widely used in the academia, literature and media. Your argument against using those terms, can also be applied to the term Kurdistan itself, as it is not recognized politically by any government (the whole region), however note that these terms are referring to a geo-cultural region only, not a political entity.Heja Helweda 01:17, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

The stuf used for this article deserves nothing but Kurdo-Iranian relations. What is this so-called 'Iranian Kurdistan'? Since when it has been known as such. Why it is called Iranian Kurdistan but not Kurdistan region ruled by the state of Iran? At least let's rename it to Kurdistan - Iran. Awat 02:13, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no consensus to move the page, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 02:47, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Iranian Kurdistan → Kurds in Iran — The intended scope is info relevant to "Kurds in Iran" just like how it is on Kurds in Turkey and Kurds in Syria. Hence the title of "Kurds in Iran" seems more suitable as that seems to be the intended scope. -- Cat chi? 13:56, 24 September 2007 (UTC) — Cat chi? 13:56, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.
  • Oppose: The topic "Kurds in Iran" is different from "Kurds in Turkey" & Syria .In contrast of Arabic and/or Turkic identity, Kurds are one of Iranian peoples. Scottish people are of Britons, and that's resonable to have entries such as "Scots in Germany" or "Irishs in USA " , but moving "Scotland" entry to the "Scots in UK" is not resonable.See also the article "Iranian Kurds and Kurds" by Sirvan Kaveh.--Alborz Fallah 22:19, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
    Scotland is a legal entity in the UK while Iranian Kurdistan is not. Kurdistan province (Iran) is a legal entity as is Kermanshah province. This isn't a similar move to your example. A Scottish United Kingdom or United Kingdom Scotland would be unreasonable. They do not exist for that reason. -- Cat chi? 01:06, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
    I don't think that's the legality that matters, but the cultural and historical background.Same is true about Iranian Azerbaijan and not "Azeri's in Iran".--Alborz Fallah 07:26, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
    If you want to write about Kurdish history in Iran, thats fine just title it as such. Prior to WW1 there was no "Iranian Kurdistan" so all history prior to WW1 belongs to a "History of Kurdistan" article. Iranian Azerbaijan can undergo the same routine. -- Cat chi? 07:41, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Oppose: Iranian Kurdistan is used [4] and in Iran, the usage of Kurdistan also encompasses Kordestan province as well as three others. Also Turkish Kurdistan seems to be used a lot [5]. Even if it is not an official region, then it is a cultural entity. We have also Baluchistan in Iran and from both a scholarly point of view and also Iranian point of view the issue does not carry any baggage of sensitivity. --alidoostzadeh 00:43, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
    Oh not at all. I think the article should cover Kurds in Iran in general and not be restricted to this "Iranian Kurdistans" borders (whatever those are). In fact the article talks about Tehran which I believe is not anywhere close to "Iranian Kurdistan." The article does indeed focus on History related to Kurdish people with minimal to no mention of non-Kurdish issuses. It would only make sense if the title represented this. -- Cat chi? 01:06, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Support - I agree overall. The link you provided is a blog, how about a reliable source. --Тhε Rαnδom Eδιτor 23:26, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
    That article was first published in a Kurdish official site (KurdishMedia.com)and mentioned in other places (eg:newsweek.washingtonpost.com)but that was deleted from official Kurdish media for unknown reasons (perhaps a technical one ).--Alborz Fallah 07:14, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Oppose Iranian Kurdistan is used in many academic sources. A quick search in books.google.com returns over 500 citations [6]. scholar.google.com also returns 171 articles using this term[7]. I suggest White cat stop his/her relentless push to wipe Kurdistan off the map :)(This is joke, no offence intended !).Heja Helweda 21:25, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
    We do not write an article on every term and there already is a Kurdistan and History of Kurdish people articles which covers the existing material in greater detail. This article does not just cover a "Iranian Kurdistan" as we even have content related to Tehran. This article focuses on Kurdish people and their history and not a region of any kind. -- Cat chi? 10:24, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Oppose - as much as I often give Cat (a little bit too much of) a hard time about the Kurdistan thing, I really considered this one. Until I thought about everyone else where there are conflicts. We have Punjab (India) and Punjab (Pakistan), and for the Basque Country, I would support Spanish Basque Country over Basques in Spain. The Evil Spartan 02:25, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
    Both of your examples (Spanish Basque Country and Basques in Spain) are redlinks so I cannot comment on them. Punjab (India) is a recognised Indian state according to the article. Punjab (Pakistan) is a recognised Pakistani region. "Iranian Kurdistan" is nothing like those. It is neither a region nor a state. Nor does it have any political existence. -- Cat chi? 10:24, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Shabankara are pure Kurds

Hello people, I have problem with this paragraph:
While according to Persian sources such as Dehkhoda Dictionary, Ardashir was the son of a Kurdish mother from Shabankareh tribe in the Fars Province [7], others historical documents such as Fars-nama(ca. 1107 CE) and Maslik al-absar of al-Umari do not consider Shabankareh as Kurdish and differentiate between Shabankareh and Kurds and the Kurdish history of Sharafnama (written by Sharaf al-Din Bitlisi in 16th century), does not mention Shabankareh among the Kurdish dynasties [8]. Moreover, modern scholars are of the opinion that the Kurds mentioned in Islamic and Persian sources as living in south and southwest Persia (Fars) were probably not true Kurds, but nomadic tribes speaking southwest Iranian dialects related to modern Luri and Persian[9].
Is this pragraph supposed to be trying to deny Kurdishness of Shabankara Kurds of Southestern Kurdistan? Brusk u Trishka 21:42, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
Ok, sorry; I cannot tolerate this to label our tribes as non-Kurdish. that's biased (:.
Shabankara were a powerful Kurdish tribe of southern Zagros. After Islamic conquest and defeat of their resistance against muslims, they divided into a few branchs and spread across Kirmanshah, Xorasan, Fars region and Armenia. the branch who lived around Kirmanshah still exists to this day... Brusk u Trishka 22:23, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
Hi, I understand and sympathize with your patriotic feelings, however we should keep in mind that in an encyclopedia all relevant scholarly sources must be mentioned even if it goes against our ethnic pride or POV etc. The fact is Kurdishness of Shabankara is not supported by all researchers.Heja Helweda 17:03, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
Hello Heja but it sounds to me like destroying our own history... ((: Brusk u Trishka 23:56, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
Also Kurdishness of Shabankara does not belong here. It has its own article. Brusk u Trishka 23:57, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

((--About 24 Kb of unsigned, anonymous material put here by 24.148.188.235 (talk) between 4 August and 19 August 2008 has been deleted, because WP is not a soapbox. Moonraker12 (talk) 16:00, 9 September 2008 (UTC)--)

Shbankareh and Kurds in the Fars province

This should be included in the article Kurds or History of the Kurds. But it is not appropriate for the present article, since Iranian Kurdistan is a geographic area which does not cover Fars province in southern Iran. This is like including Republic of Mahabad in the Kurdistan Province (Iran). Though the Republic is undoubtedly part of the Kurdish history, but it was not located inside the present borders of the Kurdistan Province. You can see the history of that page [8]. Heja Helweda 23:27, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

But the article is not about "The present Iranian Kurdistan", is it? If it is, we must then also move out the entire history section of the article to be consistent.--Zereshk 00:22, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
It is about the present-day Kurdish majority areas in western Iran. The history section refers to these areas. For example, Hamadan used to be Kurdish majority, and some Kurdish dynasties were based there, but it is not included in the article since it isnot Kurdish anymore (it is mixed Persian/Turkish now).Heja Helweda 04:41, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
Again, the paragraph about the origin of Kurds does not belong here. It should be included in the Kurds page, where it has an extensive section about the ethnic and historical roots of the Kurds.Heja Helweda 03:18, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
If there's a history section here, then it belongs here. Stop censoring our Kurdish history.--Zereshk 03:43, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
The area of Iranian Kurdistan is defined in the article. Iranian Kurdsitan covers only the western pronices of Iran, i.e. Kurdistan province, West Azarbaijan, Kermanshahan and Ilam. However, it does not cover the Fars province in southern Iran. So anything happened in the Province of Fars, does not belong here. I am not trying to censor Persian references, that's why I suggested to include that paragraph in the Kurds article. You can also create a new article Kurds in the Fars province.Heja Helweda 03:56, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
I don't like personal attacks. Instead try to come up with a good justification for the inclusion of your paragraph in the article. As I said, it does not belong here since it refers to events occurred outside this region.Heja Helweda 04:05, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
Thanx. Now it is fine. There was no need for personal attacks though. Edit summary of Iranian Kurdistan (where you said I know you hate Persians. Take your hatred elsewhere). Again I don't hate Persians or any other group for that matter.Heja Helweda 04:14, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
Look. Either take out the Ardashir and Sassanid confontation paragraph entirely, or be fair and let it all be there. You just cant partially censor out information that is directly relevant to Iranian Kurdistan. And it doesnt matter where today's Iranian kurdistan is. If that were so, Iranians shouldnt even be talking about the Sassanids because they were based in Ctesiphon (today's Iraq). Almost every major dynasty of Iran was based outside today's Iran.--Zereshk 04:28, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
Include your paragraph in the Kurds page or History of the Kurds. This page is about a specific region. Your comparison with Iran isnot correct, since Ctesiphon was part of Iran, but Fars province has never been part of Iranian Kurdistan (In case you don't agree, you have to provide evidence). I am not against your patriotic feelings, I just say include it in the relevant article. That's all.Heja Helweda 05:15, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
Sorry Heja. I'll have to disagree with you. I understand your hatred agaisnt Persians. Ive seen your numerous posts on other forums trying to publicize sentiments against Sassanids. Hypocricy just wont fly. You cant talk about Ardashir, who was based in Fars, and defeated the Kurds of fars, and censor the rest. I cant let you turn this place into a personal platfrom.--Zereshk 05:25, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
When people are talking about the history of Poland in World War II, they do not provide extensive info. on the family background of Hitler, rather they just refer it to its own page. We have a page for Adarshir, right? Why don't you include that info. in his own page. Heja Helweda 06:07, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
Ardashir defeated Madig King of the Medes, who were based in the Zagros and north-western Iran. Medes were not based in the Fars province. The battle belongs to this page since the area in question (Iranian Kurdistan) overlaps with the Medes region, however the quote about Fars province does not belong here, since it is not located in Iranian Kurdistan. That should be straightforward. BTW I have nothing against Ardashir. Indeed I think his name has a Kurdish meaning Lion on the Earth. (Ard --> Herd--> Earth)Heja Helweda 05:53, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
Sorry. Iranian Kurdistan has no boundaries.--Zereshk 06:03, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
It has. Kurdish majority areas of western and north-western Iran.Heja Helweda 06:07, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
I know I may be getting into this discussion a bit late, but wouldn't Iranian Kurdistan be simply the area of Iran where Kurds live in? According to this map, it's not in Fars. --Khoikhoi 06:11, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
Thank you. I am just saying "Fars province" is not part of this region, and info. about it should be included in other general pages like Kurds.Heja Helweda 06:24, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
Yes, but Zereshk is trying to say that Kurds used to be a majority in Fars a long time ago--they obviously aren't anymore. That's why he added it to the history section. Perhaps one could make note of this. --Khoikhoi 06:26, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
Excatly. Kurds live in Khorasan too. So does that count or not? Also, Kurds were a majority in Sassnide times in Fars. So are we not talking about the history of "Iranian Kurdistan"? Heja simply doesnt want to mention that Iranian Kurdistan included the Zagors region of Fars as well. Because she has heavily invested in portraying Sassanids as anti-Kurdish. But Ardhasir himself half Kurdish? oops! Bad for Heja!--Zereshk 06:15, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
No that does not count, since Khorasan was never historically Kurdish. The present Kurdish community are descendants of exiled tribes during Safavid period after the Battle of Dimdim in 1609. They are originally from around Lake Urmia and Mahabad region. I suggest to take a look at History of the Kurds to learn more about Battle of Dimdim.Heja Helweda 20:01, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
Yes, but how many Kurds live in these other provinces? Is there a significant population? --Khoikhoi 06:24, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
Not many of course. Yet I think that the fact that the passage in question is outside today's Kurdistan region shouldnt be a reason not to mention it. Wouldnt readers want to know how far and wide Iranian Kurdistan was in the old days? It's like trying to talk about the Sassanid history without mentioning Ctesiphon, their capital, because it currently lies in Iraq. And besides, we can mention it in the Kurds article as well. Perhaps in more detail. The Kurds were a majority in Fars in the old days. People dont know this.--Zereshk 07:01, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
Heja Helweda can you get an more lamer? You are using Greek sources when their Elamite, Assyrian, Babylonian, and Summerian sources that talk about Aryans. Scholars use to rely on Greek sources for the Mid-East in the 1800s until they started readin, understanding, and finding Middle Eastern sources that are better and more detailed so stop trying to use Xenophone and other Greek historians who wrote a lot of their infomration from mistranslated sources or hear say or what they saw during travel. All Middle Eastern sources depect the Aryan peoples and their arrival into Kuridsan and the Iranian Plateau. —Preceding unsigned comment added by unsigned (talk • contribs)


Since long ago i was watching this but since it was (and still is) not so important in my opinion i did not interfere, neither re-added nor removed it. I think that irrelevant paragraph about a kurdish diaspora tribe in the iranian Pars region is not needed in this article about iranian kurdistan which has its own defination. instead you can add it to the Shabankareh tribe or even Pars article.
Diyako Talk + 11:12, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
Definition of the region in the first paragraph: Iranian Kurdistan is a large mountainous region situated in the western and northwestern parts of Iran along the borders of Iraq and Turkey spans including the greater parts of West Azerbaijan province, Kurdistan Province, Kermanshah Province, and Ilam Province . There is no Fars province in that definition. Include your info. about Ardashir/Shabakareh in the relevant articles.Heja Helweda 19:51, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
As Khoikhoi said, and I re-iterate, the fact that Fars in the past was, and in the present isnt, a Kurdish land, is why it has been added to the history section.--Zereshk 00:32, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
Are you sure Fars in past was a Kurdish area? I suggest you remove whatever is not related to the article. The fact that some Kurdish diaspora live outsaide the region which the article is covering does not belong here. Irrelevant stuff should go to its own article.
Diyako Talk + 11:43, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
Either Fars was Kurdish dominated in the past and Iranian Kurdistan included Fars in the past, or Fars was not part of Iranian Kurdistan, then the quote about Ardashir would be irrelevant. Some people are trying to redefine Sassanids as Kurdish. If Sassanids were Kurdish then Fars province should have been part of Kurdistan in the past, so the sentence the Iranian Kurdish dominated territories were the same as today contradicts the quote about Ardashir and Shabankareh tribe in the Fars province.Heja Helweda 02:54, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
User:Heja helweda you can not change articles on unclear grounds. Firstly are does a Kurdish mayor in Tehran mean that Tehran was or is a part of Kurdistan? You can not use such twisted logic to justify such changes. This is very counter-productive. 69.196.139.250 05:55, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
Yes, It's quite controversial. I'll fix it.
Diyako Talk + 11:50, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
File:Babak kurd.JPG
Dehkhoda: Kurds were a majority in Fars in Sassanid times. Ardashir Babakan was also half Kurdish.--Zereshk 04:24, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
Ohh, does it piss you off that Kurds were Iranian and indigenous natives of Fars? Awww, too bad. I've already provided references that discuss this in detail. It's up to you now to censor this fact or not. I'm not arguing anymore.--Zereshk 23:26, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
Kurdish diaspora live or have lived everywhere in this planet but it does not mean that region necessarily falls in the area which has been defined.
Diyako Talk + 23:37, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
Hey Diyako do you know what diaspora means??? Look up the definition. The Kurds of Fars are and were not diaspora!!!!! Use proper terms not rhetoric. You are a fabricator of information. Do you work for the ISraeli secret service? 69.196.139.250 01:02, 5 March 2006 (UTC)


I agree with Dehkhoda Shwankara were Kurduish. Wirya 11:53, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


(--About 16 Kb of unsigned, anonymous material put here by 24.148.188.235 (talk) between 22 and 24 August 2008 has been deleted, because WP is not a soapbox. Moonraker12 (talk) 16:04, 9 September 2008 (UTC)--)

Dehkhoda and Sassanids being Kurdish

However, the Dehkhoda Dictionary reports Ardashir I of Persia to be the son of a Kurdish mother from Kurds in the Fars Province. And Dehkhoda calls the Kurds "an Iranian tribe of Aryan origin".(Deh. entry for "Kurd", 2006 ed.)

Is Dehkhoda an authoritative source of history? I don't think so. He was only a good linguist with a knowledge of folklore. Was he a specialist on human race and genetics, of course not. This Aryan racial theory has big problems, and there was a heated discussion on the Kurds page about this over the last few days. (Please refer there for more info.)

Some Kurdish nationalists are also claiming Sassanids to be Kurdish, but I seriously doubt that. Everywhere Sassanids are depicted as persians, and they hailed from the FARS province (traditional center of persians like Achamaenids) and their language was Pahlavi. I have read Pahlavi texts (like the one published by Sadegh Hedayat), however I should say it is much closer to persian and hardly resembles Kurdish. Also if Sassanids were Kurdish then why they tended to live in the lowlands of Mesopotamia, like around Ctesiphon? with a very hot climate? Kurds always lived close to the Zagrus/Taurus mountain ranges, as they don't like to live in the desert, and the region around Ctesiphon or Khuzestan,... in Kurdish eyes are pretty much desert. (dry and hot climate, no mountains, no snow fall,...)

Finally, Are you gonna change the Sassanid page and explicitly say they were Kurdish?. I don't think people will buy that, due to lack of evidence. However if you still believe in that, then it is better to find a concrete proof, like a reference written in the Sassanid period,(like the one I provided in this article) with a clear indication that Sassanids were Kurds. Heja Helweda 03:30, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Judging sources and references in Wikipedia is illegal as stipulated here where it specifically says:
  • "The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. It's important to note that "verifiability" in this context does not mean that editors are expected to verify whether, for example, the contents of a New York Times article are true. In fact, editors are strongly discouraged from conducting this kind of research."
In other words, it's not you or anyone else's business to judge Dehkhoda. Wikipedia does not give you that authority.
Secondly, it seems you have a deep misunderstanding of what Iran is. Iran is not an ethnicity. Iran is Kurds + Arabs + Azaris + Persians + Lurs + Gilakis + Baluchis + Turkomens + Gorjis + ... who happen to live in "Land of The Aryan". A conglomerate of peoples who share a history and culture.--Zereshk 20:53, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
But I am still not able to verify his citation about Kurds. Please kindly provide a verifiable reference from Dehkhoda. About Iran, I know what it is , a country. Conflict can occur among people living within the same country or state. Heja Helweda 21:58, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
It seems you dont have a good library (such as Berkeley which has Dehkhoda. Also UCLA Library has it, and so doesPrinceton U, and every other major library). But you can also get access to Dehkhoda's dictionary by asking your Inter Library Loan department in your library to borrow this item for you. And also, I can scan the page for you. Good?
Also, "Iran" is not a country. "Islamic Republic of Iran" is. "Iran" is a historical/geographical name, and is defined as "Land of The Aryan".--Zereshk 00:21, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
and what is Aryan? If there was such an ethnic identity, Ancient Greek historians would have mentioned it. There is no mention of such a name in the ancient world by outside parties. (like Herodot and Xenophon), but what they talk about is Persian, Kardukhi, etc. Can you find the name Iranian in Anabasis (Xenophon)? Heja Helweda 20:40, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
I am just reporting what I have found from some sources. Judging their content is not my concern (and is prohibited by WP). Nevertheless, I've posted your answer here.--Zereshk 23:49, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

(--About 20 Kb of unsigned, anonymous material added by 24.148.188.235 (talk) on 8 September 2008 has been deleted, because WP is not a soapbox. Moonraker12 (talk) 16:19, 9 September 2008 (UTC)--)

Ardi-lili etc

(This unsourced opinion added anonymously by 24.148.188.235 (talk) on 22 December 2008 has been deleted, because WP is still not a soapbox. Moonraker12 (talk) 10:35, 22 January 2009 (UTC))

Major cities

Urmia is the capital of the West Azerbaijan Province.Azerbaijanis (86%[فرهنگ جغرافیایی شهرستانهای کشور، شهرستان ارومیه، انتشارات سازمان جغرافیایی نیروهای مسلح، تهران ۱۳۷۹ ص۲۳۹.] - over 90%[9] and Kurds are the two main ethnic groups in the city followed by Assyrian and Armenian minorities. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Axan.bulut (talk • contribs) 14:25, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Ardashir and the Kurds

The last Parthian ruler Ardavan wrote a few letters to Ardashir 1 and called him a "Kurd". You have Persian on the internet who are trying to take away any connection between Kurds and the Sassanids. I wonder why they chose Keramasha as one of their capitals and even named a province called Kerman that sounds like the Kurdish dialects Kurmanji and Kirmancki. Kurdish history is slowly been taken away and discredit. Those tribes that lived in the Fars were Kurds just like todays Kurds. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.96.139.109 (talk) 12:36, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Books LLC

I've removed a link to this Books LLC reference: http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Kurdish-Inhabited-Regions/Books-LLC/e/9781156515440 (archived here). See: User:Fences and windows/Unreliable sources. Playmobilonhishorse (talk) 01:26, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Iranian Kurdistan?

I would like some academic references which refer to this region as Iranian Kurdistan, preferably not done by Kurdish nationalists --Kash 18:11, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

  • I agree most of these articles are heavily controlled by extremist Kurdish nationalist members who will not allow any other sort of opinion. Nokhodi 06:47, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
Iranian Kurdistan is called OLd Kurdistan. The Kurds use to live more to the East, but there was a geographic shift westwards when the Turks invaded the region. Hamedan (with its Mede is a marker).
Tittle change request! This article is about what is known as Iranian Kurdistan, not the Kurdish inhabited areas in Iran nor Kurdish people in Iran. You want academic references, haven't you read the article first? Or did you claim as soon as you read Iranian Kurdistan? It says "Its the unofficial name..." And What sort of opinion do you want? Have you read Wikipedia:Neutral point of view rule? Why did you change the title to "Kurdish inhabited region in Iran" when "Iranian Kurdistan" seem most relevant? Like it or hate it, there's even an official Province in Iran called Kurdistan Kurdistan Province! The Kurds have always suffered in Iran Iraq Turkey and Syria, denying Iranian Kurdistan on Wikipedia is our least worry.


the map about the ethnic group ist absolutly wrong. the population of the city urmia, which is in western azerbaijan at the borders of turkey, has 600.000 people and is azeri. so how can you claim that this area is kurdish? check urmia, check the map. please correct this part. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.192.220.51 (talk) 14:16, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

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Disputed map for Iranian Kurdistan

1- Iranian Kurdistan is place name but map about Kurdish people. West Azerbaijan Province located inside South Azerbaijan. In other words where Kurdish people live is not Kurdistan.

2- Talk in Talk:Kurdish people#Kurdish settlement map show that even the map is disputed for Kurdish people settlement.--Ebrahimi-amir (talk) 09:30, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

The map derived from a US government map by the CIA of the Iranian ethno-religious regions has been added back because the burden of argument is on you to build consensus that the map should be removed. When someone reads about Iranian Kurdistan they clearly want to know where that region is on the map.

Direct response to your arguments:

1- Kurdistan is place name but map about Kurdish people. West Azerbaijan Province located inside South Azerbaijan. In other words where Kurdish people live is not Kurdistan.

Incorrect. The map locates the ethnic Kurdish group on the ethnoreligios map of Iran. The map clearly shows where the Kurd's lands/place (i.e. Kurdistan - Land of the Kurds) is in Iran.

2- Talk in Talk:Kurdish people#Kurdish settlement map show that even the map is disputed for Kurdish people settlement.

That map comes from a highly reliable source the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). Many news organizations use this reliable source's information for reporting. The current map has not been discussed anywhere and is not disputed by other wikipedia editors.

--Guest2625 (talk) 09:49, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

1-You didn't attention the map title. The map title is "Kurdish Lands (location map)", so it is not Kurs Lands or Kurdistan lands.
2- The Azerbaijan boundary is clear. The name of "Azerbaijan" exist in "West Azerbaijan" name.--Ebrahimi-amir (talk) 09:58, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
See response on Kurdistan talk page --Guest2625 (talk) 10:45, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Removed old merge tag

I removed the old merge tag that has not had any discussions since January, 2013. Otr500 (talk) 05:32, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

East Kurdistan

I just want to say that this page should named East Kurdistan not Iranian Kurdistan because Kurds are not iranian, they are kurds! and it's East Kurdistan. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hereshsniper (talk • contribs) 20:03, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

As any simpleton can see, this is a geographic description, not an ethnic one.

Intro POV-pushing about Shia Kurds

Last sentence of introduction claimed "since the 1990s Kurdish nationalism has seeped into the Shia Kurdish area". This is tendencious claim since it's hard to find any Shia Kurdish group or even individual with nationalist views, and most reliable sources as Ervand Abrahamian's History of Modern Iran (2008) states something very different: This (Iranian) national identity is questioned only in the peripheral Sunni regions inhabited by Kurds, Turkmans, and Baluchis. (p. 195). Abrahamian is far more reliable then David McDowall who actually isn't Iranologist at all. --HistorNE (talk) 20:49, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

It should be noted that since I put this comment POV-pusher Greyshark09 has forced McDowall's claims in lead three more times.[10][11][12] Some WP:RS directly question such McDowall's claims, like D. Romano's The Kurdish Nationalist Movement (Cambridge University Press, 2006, ISBN 9780521850414, p. 240):

While McDowall’s observations about popular sentiment in Iranian Kurdistan and the increasing movement of Shiite Kurds towards Kurdish nationalism may be true, my own visits to Iranian Kurdistan in the summer of 1999 and the fall of 2000 failed to uncover much evidence of an active guerrilla insurgency in the area.

Obviously, inserting such claims in WP:LEAD is serious violation of WP:NPOV policy. --HistorNE (talk) 16:58, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

The only one violating NPOV is yourself. All notable claims from reliable sources should be presented. I quote WP:NPOV:
Editing from a neutral point of view (NPOV) means representing fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without bias, all of the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic.
All significant views by reliable sources include McDawall; you may add additional views per WP:RS sources if you find such.Greyshark09 (talk) 07:04, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
On one side we have McDowall (1996) who stated "Kurdish nationalism has seeped into the Shia area"; on opossite side we have Weiner (1986) who stated such "claims have been spread by Kurdish dissidents in 1981 but nothing was recorded", Kreyenbroek (1992) who stated "Shia Kurds vigorously reject idea of autonomy preferring direct rule from Tehran", Romano (2006) who directly question McDowall's claims and state there's no proof for it, and Abrahamian (2008) who stated "Iranian national identity is questioned only in the peripheral Kurdish Sunni regions". As I said, inserting minority, outdated and disputed claim as only one in WP:LEAD is serious violation of WP:NPOV policy. Please keep in mind Wikipedia is encyclopedia, not blog for POV-pushers. --HistorNE (talk) 21:48, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
There is no problem to put them all per WP:NPOV. If you delete McDawall you violate balance of sources.Greyshark09 (talk) 22:23, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
LEAD isn't place for introducing that claims, as explained. --HistorNE (talk) 22:25, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
Actually I added the McDowall's observation about the Shia Kurds in the first place. I appreciate and respect HistorNE's patriotic sentiments regarding his/her Iranian homeland, however here we are working on an encyclopaedia which is supposed to be neutral and it has to cover all different angles of a complicated issue like the Kurdish problem. Feelings and sentiments aside, we have to remain faithful to the actual reliable sources out there. Of course, while McDowall's assessment is presented, other points of view such as those of the Persian academics and writers deserve to be included as well. But we can not have a situation in which only one side of an argument is enforced to the detriment of all other opposing views. Also please keep in mind that one reason behind the disagreement among different sources is that McDowall's book is more recent (last updated edition in 2004) while the other sources (Weiner, Kreyenbroek) that our friend HistorNE has provided are older.Vekoler (talk) 09:02, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
You got me wrong. I didn't plan to exclude it completely, just from LEAD which shouldn't contain dubious claims. I inserted both McDowall's and Romano's observation below. Much more is needed to improve, especially Safavid period which was clearly written by some nationalist charlatan (some scorched earth strategies against Ottomans and settling Kurdish allies in Khorasan against Uzbeks are mispresented as "ethnic cleansing"). Second, 99% of sources which I used for Kurdish-related articles aren't books by Persian scholars. Finally, McDowall's edition from 2004 is just reproduction of earlier material, there's no any significant change in text. --HistorNE (talk) 05:11, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 January 2014

The statement preceding reference 16 is baseless. checking the reference shows that at least 67% of iranian kurds are Sunni Muslims. Orion229 (talk) 19:52, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

checkY Done. Shia percentage changed to 27% per the source, but please not that the Sunni number in the source is 66%. Green Giant (talk) 14:04, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

In the fifth paragraph of the section The Islamic Revolution and the Kurds, the content "The new leadership had little patience for Kurdish demands and opted for crushing unrest through military means. As a result Ayatollah Khomeini, the new religious leader of Iran, declared a jihad (holy war) against separatism in Iranian Kurdistan", has a link listed inline as an unreliable source and in the reference section as a dead link. In the article Iranian Kurdistan, the first paragraph of the section Fighting campaigns and politics, has similar content "As a result Ayatollah Khomeini, the new religious leader of Iran, declared a jihad (holy war) against Kurds in Iranian Kurdistan and key Kurdish nationalist figures were declared "enemies of the state, with the reference [13]--Encyclopedia of the Peoples of Africa and the Middle East (p390). Content that is not sourced can (and should) be removed so is there a reason this reference can't be used in both pretty much redundant entries, or did I open a new can of worms? Otr500 (talk) 16:49, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

Statements and absolutes without source.

This page is locked to prevent vandalism due to the nature of this topic and the motions of indidividuals attached to it.

The origin of content such as, "Despite repeated international calls demanding the release or retrial of these four political prisoners, all were executed without any prior notice or warning. Following the executions, Iranian authorities refused to return the bodies of those executed to their families." must therefore be clarified in the article to prevent assumptions or possibility for assumption that may further strengthen the lack of objectivity which may have caused this page to be locked.

The text should state that, "according to an article published by New York times on (date x)..."

Further more, content without source on such a sensitive topic as this article should not be allowed whithout the backing of a source. The standard used in choosing the source may be as low as Google news articles, as long as the source is clarified in the content.

Such content, whithout source, must be perceived as common belief, common perception, Eastern/Western assumption and hearsay, so on.

This discussion thread will be updated frequently and content without source or content that need further clarification will be published here.

"As of May 2010, there were at least 16 other Kurdish political prisoners on death row. Not one case has been reported as having received a fair trial." No source, mystery be deleted until source is added.

"Without notifying the families or lawyers of the political prisoners, Iranian authorities ordered the execution of four more Kurdish political prisoners - Ali Heydarian, Farhad Vakili, Mehdi Eslamian, Shirin Alam Hooli, and Farzad Kamangar, a teacher who received a lot of attention internationally following his arrest - in Iran on May 9, 2010. The four political prisoners suffered severe torture at the hands of Iranian authorities and were also forced to confess their memberships in an illegal organization - namely PJAK. None of the activists were given fair trials nor did they have access to their lawyers. Amnesty International described the executions as "a blatant attempt to intimidate members of the Kurdish minority."[60]"

The source used for this content is not statements of Amnesty Australia, the Amnesty article is providing quotes as their source for this specific event.

The content in this article must clarify this by adding, "according to statement given to Amnesty Australia...."

The content as it is, is implicating that the absolutes in the content is observed by the organization. This enforcement of such possible implication is deluding the origin of this absolute by quoting the conclusion of the report which is based on other people's quotes. 

"Amnesty International described the executions as "a blatant attempt to intimidate members of the Kurdish minority."

The conclusion. Gosale (talk) 19:14, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Iran is a name for a location.

Iran is not same as Iranian government. Iranian government include all individuals employed by that government.

Allowing content like "Iran killed" and rolling back "Iranian government killed" suggest that the rollbacker has an agenda against the entering people of Iran.

Personal agendas should stay personal.

Also rolling back edits like "according to New York times Iran " from just "Iran", suggests that the rollbacker does not want the content to be clear that it is from a news article. Also an agenda to make the content to implicate an absolute instead of an clear opinion.

Content without source is not content in Wikipedia. Rolling back content with no source has no value and content should not be used as a forum for the rollbackers personal vadderad. 

Gosale (talk) 17:41, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Gob lofer Gosale (talk) 17:42, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Is Ofra Bengio valid ?

In the introduction there is sentence from the book Kurdish Awakening: Nation Building in a Fragmented Homeland , written by Ofra Bengio . Despite that the citation is wrong and does not have the page and other data for Wiki citation , but I want to ask is it right to use a sentence from Israeli secular that is pro-Kurdish in that aspect that she thinks any says that all anti Israeli nations with Kurdish population may disintegrate and a new pro-Israeli Kurdish nation may be in their place , used in the introduction ? Does the book has peer review ?--Alborz Fallah (talk) 13:03, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

Iranian Kurdistan - flag of Iraq Kurdistan is used - template (Part of a series on Kurdish history and Kurdish culture)

The Iraqi flag of Kurdistan should not be used on the Iranian Kurdistan page. The page is talking about the Iranian Kurdistan and therefore, not only it is irrelevant to use that flag, it is absolutely wrong. It attempts to hijack part of the Iranian history which belongs to all the Iranian people - including the Kurds. Wikipedia should not be used as a propaganda platform. I urge the active users to ensure that some opportunistic users do not take advantage of this. Please remove the flag immediately and replace it with the current Iranian flag. Also including the ancient historical flag of Iran (Lion and Sun) next to it as the historical period that is discussed in the page relates to the period when the Lion and Sun was used (which is the origin of the Iraqi Kurdistan flag).

RegardsNuturalObserver (talk) 23:17, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

Flag of Kurdistan is not only the flag of Iraqi Kurdistan but of Greater Kurdistan too. --Ahmedo Semsurî (talk) 10:26, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

I remind you that "Greater Kurdistan" is not part of the discussion. This page is regarding the Iranian Kurdistan (province). Iran is a sovereign nation and the borders of Iran was not drawn by certain colonial countries some 100 years ago. Therefore, the following statement: "the Flag of Kurdistan is not only the flag of Iraqi Kurdistan but of Greater Kurdistan" is irrelevant. Iran has only one national flag - whether we like it or not. Indeed, I suggested that the original, and the ancient Lion and Sun flag ought to be used, not as a alternative or a replacement, but along side it as an addition, because the period that is discussed in the page relates to when the Lion and Sun flag was in fact used. It would be appropriate, in this context, to also use the Lion and Sun flag. However, there is no question that the flag currently in the page needs to be replaced by the Islamic Republic of Iran national flag. The Iranian Kurdistan province is, and has always been, part of the Iranian territory. Opinions concerning certain geo-political/strategic or historical debate is irrelevant to this page.

Regards NuturalObserver (talk) 13:34, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

Removed section

I removed this section, and explained my reasons in the edit summary, but will do so once more here, for the record;

1) Regarding the first alinea; in antiquity, "Kurds" referred to all Iranian nomads. Not the Kurdish ethnic group. (e.g.; J. Limbert. (1968). The Origins and Appearance of the Kurds in Pre-Islamic Iran. Iranian Studies, 1.2: pp. 41-51.; G. Asatrian. (2009). Prolegemona to the Study of Kurds. Iran and the Caucasus, 13.1: pp. 1-58.)
2) In the second alinea we can see a link to "Kurdistanica" (specifically to an article written by linguist "Dilan Roshani"), but, as far as I can see, it doesn't back the matter up at all. - LouisAragon (talk) 01:34, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

Serious errors

The article claims there are only "pockets" of Lur in Ilam Province. This is totally incorrect and the source used is far from reliable as it is a forum post, since deleted. They are the majority population in that province. Other sections have no sources or misusing sources, factually incorrect statements, all far too many to list here. Whatever ideologically biased editing is going on here has created a mess. Lashkaran (talk) 08:55, 25 February 2017 (UTC)

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Requested move 2 June 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No move. Cúchullain t/c 18:41, 11 June 2019 (UTC)


Iranian Kurdistan → Kurds in Western Iran – Kurds live in Western Iran and not „Iranian Kurdistan“ (the term is politically motivated and is used only by Kurdish nationalists). Coron Arol (talk) 17:06, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

and the formulations should also be changed to:
Kurds in Western Iran are a minority ethnic group in the western part of Iran. They sometimes use the unofficial names Iranian Kurdistan or Eastern Kurdistan (Kurdish: Rojhilatê Kurdistanê, ڕۆژھەڵاتی کوردستان) for the parts of northwestern Iran. The area is mostly inhabited by Kurds which borders Iraq and Turkey. It includes the West Azerbaijan Province, Kordestān Province and Kermanshah Province. Kurds generally consider Western Iran to be one of the four parts of a proposed Kurdistan state, which also includes parts of southeastern Turkey, northern Syria and northern Iraq.
Coron Arol (talk) 17:06, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
  • Support, It is not rational to name a part of a country to a globally non-accepted name. For example, can we call the southwestern areas inhabied by forty-one million Spanish-speakers of the UnitedStates as U.S. Hispania or American Hispania??? Or large areas in western Canada as Canadan France?!!, German Poland?? Ukrinean Russia??? I think the name should be modified to a better name, for example; Kurdish-speaking areas in Iran.SHADEGAN (talk) 12:53, 4 June 2019 (UTC)
We actually have similar titles like French Catalonia, French Basque Country. --Ahmedo Semsurî (talk) 00:52, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Political prisoners and executions

KhakePakeVatan, why was the information confirmed by the source removed ?

https://www.amnesty.org/download/Documents/MDE130882008ENGLISH.pdf (1. Introduction) V.N.Ali (talk) 21:37, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

I will revert the edit. It isn't the first time KhakePakeVatan removed sourced information. --Ahmedo Semsurî (talk) 21:47, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
Kinda related to this; I think it needs to emphasized that Irans population generally suffer discrimination, not just ethnic Kurds. Iran is ranked pretty low in human rights etc. --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:48, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
Agreed with HistoryofIran, the whole Iranian population is suffering from many sorts of discriminations from the regime. The sentence should be balanced accordingly.---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 22:22, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
User:Ahmedo Semsurî I don't remove "sourced" information for no reason. I did when I began because I wasn't serious about but if you are referring to the Azerbaijanis article, go through and look at why I removed those "references" because they were not only incorrect but also because they referred to something completely different from what was stated. Also, the reason I removed that was because it spreads the narrative that Kurds are the only discriminated peoples of Iran which isn't true, everyone is discriminated regardless of religion and ethnicity. KhakePakeVatan (talk) 04:54, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Persian Kurdistan is also an alternative name

Hello, in many academic/ geopolitical books, articles, documents and maps, the term "Persian Kurdistan" is used as well. So this name needs to be added to the first paragraph of the article, beside 'Iranian Kurdistan' and 'Easterm Kurdistan'. Here are various sources:

  • From Batum to Baghdad : via Tiflis, Tabriz, and Persian Kurdistan by Walter B. Harris - New York : Elibron Classics (LINK)
  • Qalʿeh-i Yazdigird: A Sasanian Palace Stronghold in Persian Kurdistan by Ed Keall - British Journal of the Persian Studies (LINK)
  • Jewish Subjects and Their Tribal Chieftains in Kurdistan: A Study in Survival By Mordechai Zaken (LINK)
  • Iraqi Kurdistan: Political Development and Emergent Democracy

By Gareth R. V. Stansfield (LINK)

  • Sir Aurel Stein in Southern Persia. Nature Magazine (LINK)
  • Bubonic plague in the Persian Kurdistan by Spiridion C Zavitziano. (LINK)

etc. Thank you. --Malekfarugh (talk) 10:08, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for your research. These sources seem very credible. You should add them to the article ~ Zirguezi 21:48, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Irredentism

@Pahlevun:, could you explain how this place isn't Kurdish irredentism? Please learn the definition of that word. Beshogur (talk) 19:32, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

@Beshogur: The burden to demonstrate that Kurdish Irredentism is a term in use by academic sources, which applies to this article, lies with you (not vice versa). You have just created this new category. Pahlevun (talk) 19:37, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
@Pahlevun:, 1, 2, 3. Also Template:Irredentism has those 4 parts as well (I did not add them). Learn the definition of irredentism please. Beshogur (talk) 19:50, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
That template is no good reason, and I think we know that Wikipedia is not a source for itself. But regardless of that, it seems the term is more or less in use, like the terms 'Kurdish secessionism' and 'Kurdish separatism', that are used interchangeably. We already have Category:Kurdish secession by country, which covers the same subject. This article at the moment has enough undue weight by omitting to cover a broad range of related topics like economy, education, environment, culture, demographic, etc. Inclusion of this category worsens the situation. Pahlevun (talk) 20:13, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
Then moving this to Category:Kurdish secession by country. Beshogur (talk) 20:16, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
Secession? Konli17 (talk) 20:26, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Failed verification

There's a sentence in the lead which is problematic: Iranian Kurdistan includes the West Azerbaijan Province, Kurdistan Province, Kermanshah Province, Ilam Province and parts of Lorestan Province. The source cited for it is the page 236 of The Kurds: An Encyclopedia of Life, Culture, and Society (2018) by Sebastian Mastel. I checked it and found out the given source does not say this, there are four paragraphs discussing different dialects of Kurdish language spoken in different parts of Iran, but it does not define where Iranian Kurdistan is, or more specifically, which provinces are included. It says, for example, "Kurmanji speakers are found in northeastern parts of Iran" without clarification, or "Farther into the south are Ardalani speakers who live in a linguistic territory, with Sanandaj at the center, which separates northern dialects from the southern ones. Sanandaj, the center of Kurdistan Province, had been the capital of Ardalan administration during the Qajar dynasty. Ardalani is highly affected by Hawrami and Kalhori." This would be a useful source for this article but does not support what it is used for. As a result, I am going to remove this part of the lead per Wikipedia:Verifiability. Pahlevun (talk) 18:55, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Konli17 is just POV pushing on all those related articles, editing such as Iraq, Turkey or Iran are occupying these areas, and is not theirs. Very problematic edits. Beshogur (talk) 19:08, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
You're projecting. Konli17 (talk) 20:15, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

I would also add that the section on "Discrimination of Sunni Muslims" is problematic as it relies entirely on a single HRW document (both refs are from HRW) that has a blurb about the lack of a Sunni mosque in Tehran, but doesn't appear to have anything specifically to do with Kurds. If the HRW source doesn't mention anything specific to Kurdish issues, then the section should be removed. If there is a specific complaint from the Tehran Kurdish community (plenty of sources indicate Iran's Kurds are largely secular and irreligious) about the lack of a Sunni mosque, then the section should be retitled accordingly to reflect that the discrimination complaint is about the lack of a Kurdish mosque. Laval (talk) 02:13, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

HOI? Konli17 (talk) 18:03, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
Yes Konli? --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:05, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

:::Why do you believe my wording implies Kurdistan is an independent state? I don't think it does. Konli17 (talk) 18:08, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

More like a occupied country, which it clearly isn't. --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:11, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

:::::You don't consider Kurdistan a country, or believe that it's occupied, or both? Konli17 (talk) 18:32, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Inhabited is good for the short description. If it is occupied, controlled or whatever belongs into the article.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 18:46, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

:::::::Why? Who disputes Iran controls this territory? Konli17 (talk) 18:56, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

HOI? Konli17 (talk) 13:13, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

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