Talk:Holiday (Madonna song)

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Holiday (Madonna song) is part of the Celebration (Madonna album) series, a good topic. It is also part of the The Immaculate Collection series, a good topic. These are identified as among the best series of articles produced by the Wikipedia community. If you can update or improve them, please do so.

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Release Dates

If anyone knows the release dates for the 1985 & 1991 re-release of the single can they please add them. Thanks. Underneath-it-All

Found the release date for the 1991 UK release. Underneath-it-All 19:37, 12 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I think for 1985, it wasn't exactly re-released officially. Because of the huge hype and success of Madonna at the time, Holiday started creeping back up the charts as people started checking out her back catalogue. It eventually peaked at No.2 when Into the Groove was No.1. So, an official date probably doesn't exist but the record company jumped on the success and sent out a new pressing. 74.87.90.2 (talk) 02:07, 27 August 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Scrub inc (talk • contribs) 03:23, 26 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In Australia

I could swear that Holiday became Madonna's first ever Australian hit when it rose high the charts in April 1983. A few years ago a friend had all the old charts, we checked it, and Holiday was Madonna's first hit in Australia, and it happenend in April 1983.. However that does not follow this article claims that Holiday was released internationally in Spetember 1983. Asa01 22:09, 24 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This is incorrect. The charts you are referring to would have been dated April 1984 (not 1983). "Holiday" was definitely Madonna's first hit in Australia, but it wasn't released until 1984 (I actually doubt it had even been recorded in April 1983, since it was a very last-minute addition to the "Madonna" album, which was released in July 1983).58.165.92.79 (talk) 05:04, 26 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Barry Harris Tribal Mix

Is it not official? I thought it was.

70.225.85.157 00:48, 22 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Video

The (previously unreleased) video is available on YouTube, I think we should link to that. -andy 92.227.16.69 (talk) 13:20, 16 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think the video you are referring to is actually a performance on a German TV show called Formal Eins. It's her performing in a studio and towards the end there is a man in bed for no obvious reason. Anyway, it's an early performance when she was doing a lot of promo appearances in Europe. 74.87.90.2 (talk) 02:08, 27 August 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Scrub inc (talk • contribs) 03:20, 26 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Incomplete

There is no mentioning of the fact that the live version from BA was nominated at the VMAs. Alecsdaniel (talk) 10:09, 22 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Source? --Legolas ^(talk2me) 10:12, 22 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, you look for it! You are the ultimate Madonna fan here, aren't you? Alecsdaniel (talk) 10:27, 22 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Maintain civility. This is a talk page, not your personal forum. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 10:34, 22 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Here is the proof - [1]. Now, just find a reliable source. Alecsdaniel (talk) 10:35, 22 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It is not my job to go on finding sources. Since you have made a point, why don't you find one? The above source is a definite copyright violation. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 10:38, 22 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

On second thought, I found it. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 10:39, 22 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Holiday Cover Art

The following text about the reasoning for the cover art is incorrect:

The original coverart for "Holiday" did not carry Madonna's picture since Sire did not want people to find out that she was not a R&B artist. Instead it carried the picture of a train station and an engine.

It was for her first single 'Everybody' - if you look at the cover of 'Everybody' there are no pictures at all of Madonna. However, her second single Burning Up featured a drawing of her on the back. Her third single, Holiday, did not have a picture sleeve in the US at all but in Europe they opted for the red and white striped version. The re-release in 85 featured the train sleeve - I know because I bought it and it has a picture of her on the back similar to this one from the pic disc of the same release:

[2]

So, it doesn't make sense to say to say they didn't want people to find out that she was 'an R&B artist' (I think the original quote was black not R&B artist) when there is a picture of her on the back!

So, this quote is correct in that it refers to the single 'Everybody' not 'Holiday'

Scrub inc (talk) 03:18, 26 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your input. However, the source used Rikky Rooksby validates the line. And it was clear that they didnot want her actual picture on the "cover" art. It might have been present on the back side, but that's not what we are discussing. Normally when you browse shops, you will look at the front of the vinyl or the CD right? Thats where her image should have been, but Sire had decided against it. Also using the phrase "black artist" is a little derogatory in this context and was changed to R&B instead. Even for "Burning Up", not an actual picture was present, but a photoshopped montage instead. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 03:38, 26 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Wait... "R&B" is synonymous with "black?" No, the label did not want people to think her skin was white, when people apparently would think her voice was coming from a black woman. Since R&B is a style (not a race), it's hardly fair to say the label wanted to hide the fact that she was doing dance music. 12.162.122.6 (talk) 22:55, 3 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

But it makes no sense from a time perspective to be Holiday, her third single and third video and she was doing a lot of personal appearances by then. If you look at the entry for Everybody given for Wikipedia you can see why it relates to Everybody not having Madonna's image:

Musically incorporating R&B infused beats, the song portrayed the image of Madonna as a black artist, since her picture did not appear on the single cover. However this misconception was cleared later when Madonna convinced Sire executives to allow her to shoot a music video for the song. The low-budget music video directed by Ed Steinberg portrayed Madonna and her friends singing and dancing in a club to the song. The video helped to promote the song and Madonna as an artist further.

As I said previously, Holiday did not have a picture sleeve at all in the US coming in just a standard paper sleeve which is where the quote relates to. I challenge you to find a US copy of Holiday with any sort of pic sleeve apart from a promo! Secondly, the first issue 7" released in the UK was the red and white sleeve with Madonna's face pictured at the top of the page. The re-release in 1985 had the train sleeve because I bought it by which time Madonna was a global star.

Rick Rooksby is wrong and has just got his research mixed up.

74.87.90.2 (talk) 02:28, 27 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You are wrong about the first UK release of Holiday. I bought the 7 inch the first week of its release January 1984 (it has 1983 on the cover and label) and I have it in front of me in its original 'train' sleeve. I'm not convinced the train artwork was ever used in America though - and certainly the claim the train sleeve was used to hide madonna's ethnicity doesn't ring true at all. Here is another collector with the same item; http://collectionmadonna.blogspot.com/

Vauxhall1964 (talk) 16:38, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I completely understand your concerns. But one of the core policies of Wikipedia is verifiability which in essence states that "Wikipedia doesnot go for the truth, but facts which can be verified by reliable sources." In this case Rikky Rooksby, as teh author of counteless music explanatory and guide books, is an extremely reliable source. Hence, untill and unless a counter reliable source is found backing up the claim that you made here, I'm afraid we cannot change a stated fact. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 03:08, 27 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Here you go - http://wapedia.mobi/en/Everybody_%28Madonna_song%29 If you read down, it describes in more details - the quote appears to come from (Andrew?) Morton's book as referenced at the bottom of the page.

Scrub inc (talk) 13:58, 29 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry unreliable source and Andrew Morton's book doesnot say anything at all about the Everybody cover art. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 04:02, 8 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Here's a further quote:

"Madonna - The Illustrated Biography" by Debbi Voller. pg 42/43. "Everybody... No picture of Madonna appeared on her record sleeve and many believed her to be black for some time, a misconception that suited Sire..." "When people saw me they were real surprised that I was was white" remembers Madonna.

Furthermore, your reasoning makes no sense. By the time Holiday was released, Madonna had recorded two videos for Everybody and Burning Up as well as having a video for Holiday available and had engaged in an extensive European promotional tour as well as her album being out for around six months with a full face shot. The Wiki reference for Everybody even states [i]"Everybody" incorporated R&B infused beats. Sire Records marketed the soulful nature of the dance song for the black audience[8] and Madonna was promoted as an African-American artist,...[/i]. At this point, how could they attempt to market her as a black artist?

Secondly, you seem to be confusing releases. The train sleeve was only released on 12" format for the initial UK release. The original UK 7" came in this cover:

http://eil.com/shop/moreinfo.asp?catalogid=28270

Only the re-release in '85 had the train cover for both 7" and 12". Also, Lucky Star was released before Holiday in the UK with a full colour sleeve of her too.

The US 7" only had a generic Warner's sleeve but every other release round the world featured a picture of Madonna on the front cover except the UK 12". Whereas the Everybody sleeve was identical in every territory.

Scrub inc (talk) 18:21, 7 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Rikky Rooksby is an extremely unreliable source and should NEVER be held up when respectable verification is needed. His book is littered with errors, and should be taken with a large pinch of salt. Although I don't have references to hand, I believe even Seymour Stein is on the record as saying Madonna's image was not put on the cover of Everybody as they wanted people to think she was black. Paul75 (talk) 12:01, 24 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Add the train cover?

I found the coverart of the Madonna song. Should the image be added (back)? --George Ho (talk) 01:06, 17 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Just want to point out an error here. Holiday was not Madonna's first single in New Zealand as stated. It was Everybody, in 1982. I have a copy of the record to prove this. Thunderpussnz (talk) 12:14, 28 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

RfC: Use side label of US vinyl single?

The US vinyl single lacks front cover. At least there is a Side-A label. Shall we add it as second infobox image or use it as replacement for the current UK image? Also, how do you interpret WP:NFCC and WP:NFC? Note that the song was first published with American singer's—Madonna's—vocals. --George Ho (talk) 07:45, 2 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The UK image works fine as well. And George Ho, I think you seriously need to WP:DROPIT. These continuous RfC and DRVs are getting kinda annoying. You try your best I know, but these are trivial issues. —Indian:BIO ^{[ ChitChat ]} 09:34, 2 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@IndianBio: I don't know whether the gap difference between this and Talk:Finally (CeCe Peniston song) is small or large. There was edit warring over there that I was involved in. I started the RFC because, if I don't, I would have changed the image right away, and then you would have reverted. --George Ho (talk) 14:05, 2 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comment This is a trivial issue that is evidently not worth the trouble of starting a request for comments procedure and scaring up editors to proffer their opinion. My "vote" would be to suggest that this be resolved by those directly involved, amicably and with an open mind. -The Gnome (talk) 08:37, 5 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I tried DR, Gnome; it didn't work for edit-warring. --George Ho (talk) 15:55, 5 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Third opinion

Response to third opinion request:

I agree that this dispute is way too trivial for an RfC, so I'm not surprised that that was shot down. At any rate, although whether or not the side-A label for the US version qualifies as a cover is debatable, I would still suggest using it as the first cover but then also using the UK cover art as the alternative cover. Erpert ^{blah, blah, blah...} 23:09, 7 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Accuracy of information about the UK cover art

This guy said that the picture of the train station and the train itself was used to disguise Madonna as typical RnB artist. However, one Amazon reviewer said that his book is not accurate. Shall we take those words seriously and reconsider Rooksby's research? I typed in "British" to distinguish it from the U.S. vinyl release, which never had a picture sleeve when it was initially released. --George Ho (talk) 05:19, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thats not the only place, I found the info in Lucy O'Brien's book also, so its very possible that he/they are correct. I vaguely am gonna check any Amazon user's comment. —IB ^{[ Poke ]} 08:39, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

File:Madonna-holiday-1983-us-vinyl.jpg

The image is nominated for deletion at Commons. Please discuss there. --George Ho (talk) 17:35, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Cough cough

Remember we are all on the same team here... just sayin. Courtesy ping Ss112 IndianBio. -Ad Orientem (talk) 05:05, 17 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Its all good, I will repeat again, Ss112 is one of the best editors we have here and I do not want any bad blood between us buddy. I did not realize you are getting offended so much. —IB ^{[ Poke ]} 05:09, 17 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]