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Archive 1

Grey wolf

Why is it "grey", but "gray wolf"? 82.28.47.152 (talk) 09:10, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

darkgray

Why is "darkgray" lighter than "gray"? Anton 24.201.100.166 20:59, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

This can happen if the image you're looking at is inverted, for example, if you're looking at a negative. Erudecorp 08:18, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

CMYK coordinates of gray

It says that the grayscale colors are 0 0 0 X where X is any number from 0 to 255, and that in theory it can also be X X X 0. But how about X X X X?? 66.245.22.143 17:49, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Should also work...

Yellow and Blue

Yellow and blue make green not gray, there is a major flaw here.--64.228.196.98 01:49, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)

To whoever wrote that, first, it is necessary to sign Wikipedia articles, and second, that is thinking based on RYB rather than the more modern RGB/CMY color theory. Georgia guy 01:30, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Sorry 'bout that, kinda new at this, and you are certainly right, however I believe that that should be mentioned in the article to stop idiots like me from deleting it.--64.228.196.98 01:52, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Page move

Grey (colour) → Gray

Several days ago, this article was moved from American spellings to Canadian spellings in both a page move (Gray (color) to Grey (colour) and the text in the article. However, I'm pretty sure that this is the meaning of the word gray that people normally think of when they think of this word, and so I say that this article can be moved to Gray. Note that other articles the dis-ambiguation page links to will not change their titles, and the dis-ambiguation page itself can be named Gray (disambiguation). Georgia guy 02:55, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)

OK, I did some more homework here. The page started with American spelling in July 2004. It continued with American spelling until last week when User:Cennet changed all the spelling to British, and moved the page (title) to British spelling (when you look at the history you see the new title, even when looking at older edits.) This is a clear violation of Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#Usage_and_spelling which states;
If an article is predominantly written in one type of English, aim to conform to that type rather than provoking conflict by changing to another.(Sometimes, this can happen quite innocently, so please don't be too quick to make accusations!)
and
If all else fails, consider following the spelling style preferred by the first major contributor (that is, not a stub) to the article.
This article was incorrectly changed from American to British spelling. And the user who did it has only six edits, all to do with the page move. Duk 20:09, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Object. Grey is not an exclusively Canadian spelling, and while largely a British usage, it was the original spelling[I call bullshit], and Gray is just an American variant. While UK-influenced English predominantly uses Grey, American usage is roughly split between both Gray and Grey. As an aside, the Dictionary Society of North America recently released reports on the growing usage and increased popularity of British English spellings in the United States...blaming the phenomenon in part for the large number of UK-expatriate editors who take publishing jobs in the United States and influence the language in the editing and production. Etymologically, it comes from the Middle English grei and further back from the Old English graeg. The disambiguation at Gray is fine as it is, and given the variety of topics covered (people, physics, color) all the more necessary. LASTLY, we have a policy around here about not bickering between American English and British English usage, please read Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English), which establishes the policy stating American spellings need not be respelled to British standards nor vice-versa and states that alternate spellings may require redirects...which is done appropriately here. —ExplorerCDT 06:30, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment The question of word origins isn't really relevant here. Both spellings are valid in American English (personally, I don't think I use one spelling consistantly, nor do I really notice which I'm using). It probably doesn't help that although 'grey' may be closer to the british roots, I know a bit of German and 'gray' is close to 'grau'. Both usages are common in the States, and while our policy is not to make a fuss about these things, we're left with the question of whether, when people break that agreement and move stuff around, we should undo their efforts as a deterrent against future things of that kind. I'm not sure if we should in this case or not. In any case, as, if I'm any example to go by, for this word I don't think any speaker of English would find 'grey' wrong (Americans regularly see both and many like me don't even notice), and many non-American speakers of English would find 'gray' wrong, perhaps it's best to leave it at 'Grey'. I don't feel strongly enough about it to actually vote. --Improv 14:32, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment. This page should probably either be moved back to Gray (color)] or all the internal links to Gray (color) should be changed to Grey (colour). Moving it to a third place would solve nothing and would also create secondary redirects which would, I believe, fail. I have some sympathy with the placing of the article at Gray but not if the redirects aren't fixed. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 18:25, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Object. I concur with ExplorerCDT. *Christiaan 18:30, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Object. Echo above statements. violet/riga (t) 18:51, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Object As per above, jguk 19:11, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Confused Looking at the history, the article seems to have been started with American spelling and continued that way until last week [1]. Is this right? If so, then the policy is clear; articles should be standardized to the spelling they started in. When did the page move from American to British spelling happen?Duk 19:50, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
    • The answer can be found by clicking on Gray (color), removing the re-direct by clicking on the link, and then clicking on "history", and it will have just one edit labelled "Move to Grey (colour)". Georgia guy 19:53, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Object. Grey is accepted in the US. Gray is not accepted elsewhere where US English is not used. zoney ♣ talk 20:12, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep Grey Restore to original spelling The page started as American spelling, stayed that way for eight months and was changed to British spelling in violation of policy. The user who made this changed had no previous edits, and never edited another page. This makes me suspect that he knew it was wrong when he did it (by checking out a new user name just for this purpose). Duk 20:19, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
OK, I just can't swallow a blatent policy violation, so I'm going to pretend it didn't happen. Grey is the better spelling for reasons listed above. Changing my vote to keep Grey.
  • Object The Manual of Style also says, "If a word or phrase is generally regarded as correct, then prefer it to any other word or phrase that might be regarded as incorrect." 'Grey' is correct in British English and in U.S. English; 'Gray' is correct only in U.S. English, so the former should be preferred. If the user accidentally did the right thing, thinking he was being bold and underhand, you're still at liberty to object to the use of a sockpuppet by way of an RfC... Alai 21:21, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Support. "Grey" is occasionally seen in U.S. usage but "gray" is far more common. The sporadic occurrences of "grey" give no reason to depart from our policy of honoring the original spelling. True, we don't want to bicker about spelling, but if we let the unilateral undiscussed anti-policy probable sockpuppet move stand, the effect will be to generate more bickering about spelling. JamesMLane 21:50, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
    • "Sporadic"? DSNA says the usage is roughly 50-50 across the United States, and that at least 20% of the country favours "-our" endings over "-or" as in colour, honour, etc. Though I disagree with the anon's move, it is in line with Wikipedia's common use naming convention.—ExplorerCDT 22:04, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
      • I'm not a professional lexicographer, but I find both the DSNA assertions astounding. Were they perhaps including Canada? I just did my own half-baked research by searching the archives of the New York Times for each term. "Gray" returned 19,655 articles, while "grey" returned only 2,270. Obviously, both totals will be distorted by people named Gray or Grey and by other proper nouns, but that cuts both ways -- the first hit for "grey" is an article about homelessness that mentions a Zane Grey western. Similarly, "honor" gets 20,989 and "honour" only 119; "color" is 24,617 and "colour" is 93. JamesMLane 23:15, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
        • I have no idea what the DSNA is. But a search of the NY Times can only reveal what the NY Times' style guide says about the matter. It will offer no comment whatsoever about how Americans not writing specifically for the NY Times spell the word, jguk 23:41, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
          • FYI: DSNA = Dictionary Society of North America. —ExplorerCDT 03:29, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)
            • I agree that the Times usage isn't definitive. That's one reason I called my research "half-baked". I thought that going to the Times archive was at least a little better than just conveying my personal opinion -- which is that, even among Americans not writing specifically for the New York Times, "gray" is far more common than "grey" and that "honour" and "colour" are virtually unknown. By the way, the Dictionary Society of North America ([2]) probably merits an article, despite its apparent lapse on this particular subject. JamesMLane 03:52, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Support. A.D.H. (t&m) 00:07, Feb 27, 2005 (UTC)
  • Support. We should not encourage the behavior of users like User:Cennet who change all the spellings to "grey" when it was originally at "gray." That, if anything, is clearly out of line with Wikipedia's policies on British/American spellings, about leaving spellings as they originally were when the subject is not specifically British or American. —Lowellian (talk) 02:34, Feb 27, 2005 (UTC)
    • The policy says not to change American spellings to British ones (or vice versa). But it doesn't say not to change exclusively American spellings to ones recognised in Britain (etc) and America (see the American Heritage Dictionary, or Merriam-Webster). Indeed, the examples of avoiding 'alternate', etc, rather approves of doing so. The objective, as I understand it, is as great a mutual comprehensibility as possible, not to uphold 'linguistic first strike' at the cost of all else. Alai 02:53, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)
      • On that we can agree. —ExplorerCDT 03:29, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)
        • Actually, we can't. The references to the WP:MOS being policy have recently been removed as a couple of editors believed that as there was no vote to make it policy, it wasn't policy (although personally I believe that it has effectively been accepted as policy by acclamation, but I lost out there). Ergo, there is no policy either way, jguk 13:21, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)
    • What leads you to believe that "colour" is acceptable American English? A.D.H. (t&m) 04:52, Feb 27, 2005 (UTC)
      • I'd be perfectly in favour of a move to Grey (color), if either a) that question is of my belief, or b) any help. (Again trying to resist the temptation to start a move counter-request...) Alai 05:49, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)
        • this would be my preference. Duk 13:02, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Object. Cennet was, I think, ill-advised to make the change (and would have been better occupied doing some more useful editing) — but, first, the change appears not to be across U.S./U.K.-English lines ('grey' does seem genuinely to be the much more common spelling world-wide, and even fairly common in the U.S.), and secondly, once it's done why waste further time changing it all again (especially to a third option)? Reverting it as a deterrent would only work if likely future culprits had any idea of what was done in this case — but that seems pretty unlikely. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 13:33, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Object. Gray is a surname, Grey is a colour, in the majority of the English speaking world. Kiand 16:17, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Support. Why is there even a vote when the style guide is clear? Allowing this to stand could encourage more needless language squabbles or worse. Maurreen 17:54, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)
    • I don't mean to be snide or anything, but have you read the arguments offered by previous voters? Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 18:05, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)
      • I've read them and I agree with Maurreen. If your reference is to your point that "future culprits" won't know about this decision, my response is: I don't mean to be snide or anything, but have you read the arguments offered by previous voters, in particular the evidence that Cennet is a sockpuppet who knows perfectly well what the rule is? It's not at all impossible that, if this move stands, then "Cennet" will wait a decorous interval to make it look good, and then show up under yet another name and stage another guerrilla attack on the MoS. In addition, even aside from the deterrent effect, I just don't think that rulebreakers should be rewarded by getting their desired outcome as a result of their rulebreaking. JamesMLane 03:14, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)
        • No, it wasn't to that; it was to the fact that the style guide isn't clear on this, as we're not concerned with a simple difference between U.S. and U.K. English; 'grey' is both U.S. and U.K., 'gray' is only U.S. As for rulebreakers not getting what they want — fair enough, but I also don't think that there's much to be gained in cutting your nose off to spite your face. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 22:53, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)
        • Agreed, what James Lane here says makes a lot of sense. —Lowellian (talk) 11:15, Feb 28, 2005 (UTC)
  • Object. — Instantnood 18:43 Feb 27 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment. Grey is the better spelling, but this article should be at Grey, not Grey (colour). Foobaz·✐ 01:11, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Move. Neutralitytalk 16:40, Feb 28, 2005 (UTC)
  • Move. Original move to grey violated policy, and must be undone; it was AE and must stay AE, or we'll wind up in move requests again and again. Besides, Google supports gray for the colour. --A D Monroe III 22:33, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)
    • See above, where various people point out that 'grey' is used in both U.K. and U.S. English, whereas 'gray' is used only in U.S. English — thus it isn't a simple matter of the difference between two variants of English. (And I'd not trust Google to tell me anything of this sort. Dictionaries are more useful and reliable.) Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 22:53, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Support <via edit conflict> BrokenSegue 01:39, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Support. I am pursuaded by what James Lane wrote. Jonathunder 03:25, 2005 Mar 1 (UTC)

Voting closed.

Requested Move: (There and back again...)

Page seems to have moved, though without much in the way of consensus. Would there be any support for a RM for a bona fide move to grey, or to grey (color), on the basis of this being a spelling recognised in all major spellings of English? Alai 06:16, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)

add: * Support or * Oppose followed by an optional one sentence explanation and a signature:"~~~~"
  • Support - The spelling grey is acceptable in every single English-speaking country, gray not. That's a fact. In the MoS it says, a neutral word should be chosen if possible and reasonable, which is the case for grey. Therefore, the MoS should be respected and the neutral word 'grey' be chosen.Iwaki 13:35, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Support - if one spelling is universal and one is parochial, we should use the universally-accepted spelling. When confronted with a choice between being sometimes wrong and being never wrong, why choose the sometimes wrong option? Also, the article itself is inconsistent, using both spellings, seemingly at random. I suggest someone change that while we're at it. Stemonitis 11:11, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Support, because grey is used and accepted everywhere, gray not. Why choose a spelling that is only used in the US (but not even exclusively) for an international English wikipedia? Oh, and by the way, grey as a noun only means grey, whereas the noun gray can mean both color and physical unit.
  • The page should be moved to Grey and stay there. However the article should (except for grey) remain written in US English. Nobbie 03:21, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Support based primarily on the broader usage of 'grey' over 'gray', as noted in earlier arguments. Courtland 04:10, 2005 Mar 9 (UTC)
  • Support based on broader usage and lack of conflicting use. James F. (talk) 09:04, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Support agree with above comments. Timrollpickering 09:35, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Support -- Philip Baird Shearer 11:36, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Support - in line with policy. Warofdreams 12:20, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Support —Michael Z. 2005-03-9 17:15 Z
  • Support. Move to grey. zoney ♣ talk 17:06, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Oppose moving yet again. Please let it rest. Jonathunder 06:07, 2005 Mar 11 (UTC)
  • Oppose. 165.161.3.13 15:13, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Voting closed.

---Add any additional comments on the "Requested move" below this line ---

In the first suggested #Page move started at 02:55, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC) the numbers were 10 to 8 for Grey. (The structure of voting was confusing so edit these numbers if I am still wrong). So I am not sure that the page should have been moved as there was no agreement to do so.

Should this discussion be considered a new one because the last discussion only finished at 03:25, 2005 Mar 1 (UTC). If this is a request for new opinions, perhaps people who supported or opposed in the first discussion should not be eligible to support or oppose this one as it could be seen as double counting as it is doubtful anyone has changed their opinion in a week. The reason for saying this is that otherwise this vote can be resurrected again and again by the loosing side until they get the vote they want. What do others think? Philip Baird Shearer 12:01, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I think the first discussion was more complex, and was, at least in part, concerned with whether the previous move was correct, and whether or not it should be undone. This discussion is over the simpler point of whether "gray" should move to "grey", regardless of the editing history. On that basis, this is a different discussion, the results of which (will) deserve attention. I don't care whether it was wrong or not of someone to move it in the past, only whether it would be better to move it now. Stemonitis 11:29, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I agree it's a bit soon. While I made the original comment, I don't think I'd have started another move vote quite so soon myself. On the other hand: it's different for the reasons Stemonitis mentions, and also because it was complicated by "Grey (colour)" being the then page name, which is obviously not a generally acceptable spelling. And as noted above, the first vote didn't have consensus, so really the "losing" side didn't in fact lose at all, as I understand the defined criteria. Perhaps the moving admin was taking into account the "impropriety" of the original move that sparked all this off. If we actually get a rough consensus this time, that can't be a bad thing. Alai 17:36, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

  • Comment: Of course, the first vote showed a majority in favour of leaving the page at Grey (colour), but User:Neutrality chose to jump the gun and move it to his preferred version of Gray, which is a shame as all the above users could have spent their time improving the encyclopaedia rather than re-arguing the page location some more. Kind regards, jguk 18:09, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

This article has been renamed as the result of a move request. I think it should now remain as Grey - no more voting please! violet/riga (t) 17:20, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Although I use the -ay spelling, I prefer using the -ey spelling for this page. The -ay spelling is almost exclusive to North America, while the -ey spelling is used worldwide. Since the English Wikipedia has English-speaking people from different areas, the use of a form seen in almost all dialects is favorable in an article that isn't about something having to do with a specific country (that is, unlike the articles on the American Civil War or the Hundred Years' War). --/ɛvɪs/ 07:58, Mar 29, 2005 (UTC)

Is the picture for gray 50%? It looks quite dark to be perfect gray. 207.224.177.252 21:56, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

American vs Canadian

The article has a title of "grey", the Canadian spelling, but in the article, it uses the American spelling of color. If the title is "grey", we should use colour inside the article.--Fantrl 14:37, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

  • Regarding the above response, Wikipedians above claim that "gray" is American only and that "grey" is both American and Canadian; see the above Requested moves for details. Georgia guy 14:39, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

English on this article

One of the recent edits of this article is that it should use Commonwealth English; yet the article started in American English. What does anyone say?? Georgia guy 21:33, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Spelling proposal

Hi there, I notice that in this article there is a lot of activity about spelling that could be better channeled into the subject itself. You may be interested in this proposal to put an end to the problem. Thanks. PizzaMargherita 22:09, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Changed language

Hi, I changed most instances in the article of color to colour as the title is in British English, thus we follow that through out the article. WP:MOS should be reviewed before you object.--HamedogTalk|@ 12:07, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

As there are a lot of sections regarding this subject, I arbitrarily chose to put my response here. I believe that the spelling of this article should be reverted to its original American English for the following reasons:
1. As above, it was originally in American English.
2. According to the English language article, 67.2 percent of all first-language English speakers live in the United States. Accordingly, I would assume that the vast magjority of them speak American English. I'm not saying we change the MOS to force every English article to be American English, but in this case, where there is a dispute, the scales should be tipped toward the primarily spoken dialect.
--Mister Magotchi 07:46, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

  • The title of this article is in British English. Wikipedia manual of style is neutral on what English variant should be used, but there is a guideline that each article be consistent within itself. I've adjusted spelling accordingly so it is in British English Nfitz (talk) 04:48, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
Please read all the earlier discussions and votes taken on this issue. VMS Mosaic (talk) 18:24, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Surely the clue is in the name - 'English' i.e. the language of England. The Americans may chose to use their own variant but that is no reason to impose it on the rest of us. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sam1930 (talk • contribs) 17:55, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Possible vandalism

Could someone please inspect the recent edit by 141.43.210.4. That IP is being used for vandalism on many pages & the edit here may be that too. Not knowing the subject I can't offer an opinion. Kcordina 16:36, 26 January 2006 (UTC)


Gray

I turned Gray into a disambig that mentions Grey first thing. I get the sense this will tick people off, but about half the things at Grey (disambiguation) involved "Gray." I put a link to the "grey" disambig in Gray, but if it's too Americentric and horrible a thing to do I'll understand. I think "grey" is fine for this article though as many in the US spell it that way now too. I dislike that spelling, it's not because I'm pro-US just anti-UK:), but it is basically the common one now.--T. Anthony 15:00, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Concensus has decided that "Grey" is the color. There are though many things spelt "gray" that are not related to the color. People, places, etc for example. So I think the "gray" page should stand as a disambig. But shouldn't the "Gray" aticle have its own talk page? As it is now it links to this talk page. In the interests to making the various pages (Grey, Grey (disambig), and Gray) connected I placed disambig type links on the top of them. Naufana : talk 19:46, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Unreferenced content

Despite being tagged since February, this article has not had any references added for the large amount of unreferenced text; so, per WP policy, I am moving the two sections below to the talk page below. Please add this material back to the article when and if sources can be found for it. Dhaluza 00:41, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Grey in colour theory

Most grey pigments have a cool or warm cast to them, as the human eye can also detect even a minute amount of saturation. Yellow, orange and red will create a "warm grey". Green, blue, or purple, will create a "cool grey". [3] When no cast at all, it is referred to as "neutral grey" or simply "grey".

WARM GREY COOL GREY
Mixed with 6% yellow. Mixed with 6% blue.

Two colors are called complementary colors if grey is produced when two colors are combined. Grey is its own complement. Consequently, grey remains grey when its color spectrum is inverted, and therefore has no opposite, or alternately is its own opposite.

Here there is a post talking about how grey on black or white is the same as white with black or vice versa, I know I've read this on a book about shades, tones & pigments before, that grey is its own complement, but has the same effect as a contrasting color with either black or white. That grey inverted is grey is simply common sense, and hard to get a reference for, I added the "cool" or "warm" color associations above from a .edu website. Nagelfar 01:14, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Artists sometimes use the two different spellings to distinguish between strict combinations of black and white versus combinations that do have elements of hue. I had hoped that this article would help me remember which type was grey and which was gray.

Why is this in the dicussion page? It looks good enough for the article to me. Same goes for the below topic. --Mathew Williams 10:32, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

The pictures look more brown than grey. OrangeAipom (talk) 03:30, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

In poular culture section

Obviously this "In popular culture" section needs to be dismantled and turned into appropriate prose for other sections. As a first two-minute fix, I'm just going to remove all of the "things that happen to be grey" entries. While "The Picture of Dorian Gray" is a great book and Sonic the Hedgehog may be a great game, neither contributes to our knowledge of the color grey. --Dgianotti (talk) 19:52, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Web colors

There are several shades of grey available for use with HTML and CSS. All are spelled with an a: this can cause unexpected errors (this discrepancy is inherited from the X11 color list). Note that the three "slategray" colors are not themselves on the greyscale, but are slightly saturated towards cyan (green + blue).

HTML Color Name Sample Hex triplet
(rendered by name) (rendered by hex triplet)
lightgrey #D3D3D3
gray #808080
darkgray #A9A9A9
dimgray #696969
lightslategray #778899
slategray #708090
darkslategray #2F4F4F
Darkslategray doesn't really look like gray to me. --Brandon Dilbeck 04:03, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

odd

Why does this article link to the talk pages of several other articles?--VectorPotentialTalk 20:37, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

culture references

in "Dragostea din Tei" by Ozone, a.k.a. the numa numa dance, the lyrics before the main theme (where the title is stated) is "when you leave, my colors fade to gray", and seeing as this article states the very most irrelevant of things related to gray, (no offense; this still can be useful) I thought this would be a good thing to include. -Divya da animal lvr —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.193.163.234 (talk) 22:47, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Irrelevant

Is it really necessary to include "Grey is sometimes worn by members of the infamous Crip gang"? I myself sometimes wear grey and am not a gang member. In fact, everybody I know (all of whom are non-gang members) also sometimes wear grey. Police officers sometimes wear grey, mechanics sometimes wear grey, CEOs sometimes wear grey... I could understand if the Crips always wore grey, but come on now...it's just an irrelevant factoid about one particular demographic that really applies to everybody everywhere. 70.20.228.195 (talk) 15:01, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, I've removed it now. Even the Crip page itself doesn't back up that bit. It says "For many years, Crips were characterized by their tendency to wear blue in order to easily identify each other. ... A particular set of Crips ... wear purple in addition to blue ... have been known to wear dark-green ... in addition to blue ... the Crips have begun to cease the use of colors". Nothing about grey at all. --Maelwys (talk) 15:49, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Battleship grey

An article has been created for Battleship grey. I tagged for merge to Grey, since current article is a dicdef. • Gene93k (talk) 12:53, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Light

The crazy little diagram says that white is composed of red, yellow and blue... shouldn't yellow be green??? TIM KLOSKE|TALK 03:46, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

The diagram was showing white in an additive version RYB color model, though that model is normally used for subtractive colors. PaleAqua (talk) 05:44, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

"errors with outdated browsers"

I'm not sure if that is a good description of the problem. Normally we expect up-to-date browsers to be strict about spelling and usage: browsers that accept variant spelling of grey/gray would not normally be called "up to date", any more than browsers which accept variant spelling of gr/green.

W3C has listed 16 color names that will validate with an HTML validator:

The color names are: aqua, black, blue, fuchsia, gray, green, lime, maroon, navy, olive, purple, red, silver, teal, white, and yellow.

http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/types.html#h-6.5.

So we could say: some non-standards compliant browsers may recognise "grey" as well as "gray". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.101.166.15 (talk) 03:51, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

It seems that a majority of material in this section lacks citation, I'm pretty surprised this apparently wasn't corrected or even discussed on the talk page. I'd fix it by adding the 'citation needed' stamps to everything that requires them, but I'm sure my attempt to point out a serious flaw would be reverted within minutes. Someone should deal with this, preferably by actually finding sources for all the random material present in this section. At the current time, this is only one of many pages on Wikipedia where large amounts of "uncited" materials can be found without any visible attempt to verify or correct the issue. If Wikipedia wants to be taken seriously for anything included in it's pages, it seriously needs to deal with this problem, as well as the refinement of many unreliable sources which can also be found on many pages. As it stands Wikipedia is nothing more than a psuedo-intellectual, holier-than-though version of any other wiki out there; It is no better than places like Encyclopedia Dramatica, albeit it tries very hard to appear as if it weren't. Although I got off-topic, I just wanted to express that the wealth of material in need of citations is just the first problem holding Wikipedia back from being useful. Start by fixing it in this article, and then try actually reading the articles you're mass-reverting to see if any of them need citations. 98.228.248.225 (talk) 08:08, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Don't be surprised; don't preach; do try to help, either by added the tags or by simply removing the unsourced material. Removing unsourced trivia from the color articles is practically a full-time activity for some of us, but we don't get to them all. Dicklyon (talk) 08:23, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

On the name Grey

I wodered why i couldnt see the name Sir Reginald Grey of Ruthin Castle, A great and noble Lord of the Marches, who also held Manors in England.Blunham for one much to the annoyance of one Earl of Pembroke.

C J F —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.70.229.214 (talk) 11:36, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

nonsense

What does "In recent years, "neutral colors" had been reclassified" even mean? Reclassified from what to what? Removing this sentence unless someone can explain it. 91.105.52.52 (talk) 13:16, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Why does this article have a warning at the beginning of it, with regards to the spelling of the colour, when articles such as 'colour' (not that you'll find it spelled such on wikipedia) do not?

Is this a US-centric website or what? Let's be clear about it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.146.175.133 (talk) 20:40, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

I can't comment on if it's US-centric, but I think that people are more often 'confused' about if grey/gray is the right spelling, but the regional difference between colour and color is generally well known, so not really important to note for most people. 98.14.144.181 (talk) 01:51, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

There are many articles which use British spellings on Wikipedia, and several color-related articles which spell it “colour” throughout. You’ll notice that the color article begins “color or colour (see spelling differences)”. I’m not sure what your complaint is... can you point out an article which confuses readers? If so, we can try to fix it. –jacobolus (t) 21:00, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

The article keeping thrashing around with spellings; this article has been US spelling for many years (see this diff where a change was reverted in 2008). In the US, both spellings are acceptable, so the title, grey, is acceptable everywhere, is it not? But somehow, some instance of "colour" have crept in since 2009 in various places, so it needs some cleanup. Dicklyon (talk) 00:32, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Spelling mixup

On 9 Jan. 2011, User:81.106.4.224 changed a bunch of "color" to "colour", which nobody noticed or fixed. I just fixed it. Dicklyon (talk) 00:43, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Surname

What about the Grey surname?

I had a math teacher years ago named "Mr. Gray". He told us that 'Gray' is a surname and is therefore always capitalized, whereas 'grey' is the color, however I don't doubt there are many people with the last name of 'Grey'.

Grey is a fairly common surname too. There was a Queen of England called Lady Jane Grey. JonChappleTalk 09:05, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Distinction between grey and gray?

According to Field's Chromatography 1869 pg29-30, grey means pure black and white, and gray means faint of hue.[4]. SaltyBoatr get wet 15:36, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Interesting. I bet that distinction never caught on; or faded out over a hundred years ago. Dicklyon (talk) 15:57, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
I noticed it while reading the Oxford English Dictionary, which cites Field's Chromatography in the etymology of "grey". Combine both those published sources, and this seems serious enough to pass WP:RS. Here is also a modern reference fo the distinction[5]. SaltyBoatr get wet 16:03, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
Your "modern" reference explains that this was a distinction among “nineteenth-century printers”. –jacobolus (t) 17:41, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
I'd be OK reporting it as "a voice in the wilderness" as this secondary source calls it, or some such framing that makes it clear that it was probably not more than one guy's idea that didn't catch on. Dicklyon (talk) 21:58, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Questionable citation

Most of the surprising "facts" cite http://www.greyorgray.com/, which itself has no working references. In fact it actually refers you to a parking domain. I think these "facts" (like "grey is lighter than gray") should be removed until someone can find a real actual source for them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.13.146.181 (talk) 19:32, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Politics

Martin Bormann was called the grey eminence because, as the executive secretary to Adolf Hitler, he amassed great power behind the scene, because he was the one who controlled access to the Führer.[8]

It doesn't seem useful or logical to describe one specific example of someone being describe as éminence grise, instead of the general concept12.96.87.102 (talk) 19:53, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Colo(u)r

I noticed that the spelling for this word is often changed in this article. Either way is correct, but once one spelling is used, it must be the same throughout the article. —C. Raleigh (talk) 21:34, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

I just now realized that "color" is the spelling historically used in this article. My honest mistake. I have added an American English template to this talk page to reduce any future confusion. —C. Raleigh (talk) 22:52, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
I'm at least partly to blame for not correctly making the article consistent when I reverted a spelling change earlier. This is all a good example of why we have WP:ENGVAR even if it isn't perfect. VMS Mosaic (talk) 08:05, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
If the article is written in American English shouldn't "Gray" be the tile? Tomsv 98 (talk) 19:42, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
Indeed - and "gray" should be used throughout the article, whereas "grey" is mostly used at the moment.--192.100.107.39 (talk) 11:13, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
"Grey," unlike "colour" and the like, is acceptable, even fairly common, in American English, so it's not inconsistent. Twin Bird (talk) 06:49, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
Eh, I'd suggest 'grey' be used throughout the article, simply because that's the title of the article. Keep the article in American spelling by all means, if 'grey' is in fact acceptable within that, though. 143.92.1.33 (talk) 00:40, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
Would it not be clearer to just move the article to gray? --McGeddon (talk) 10:00, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

More greys, not just the HTML-named.

Thie infobox shows sRGB(128, 128, 128) as being the color. That is correct by W3C color name, as a color grey there are more options. Every sRGB(n, n, n) (all n's equal) show a grey color. Since this is about grey in general, this fixation on one color should be nuanced. -DePiep (talk)

Agreed. It's not only this article that has that problem. A large number of color articles over emphasize X11/HTML/CSS colors. I still want to redo the infobox some day and push such coordinates and samples down to a sub box. PaleAqua (talk) 15:49, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Requested move 2

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No consensus. In terms of votes, there is almost a tie between the two preferences. The article name has been the subject of hot disputes in the past, as reflected by the indefinite move protection. The users who believe that WP:ENGVAR should decide the matter didn't give a persuasive argument. The article on grey/gray is expected to serve as a common reference for mention of this color all over the encyclopedia. It isn't a question of who started this one article originally. WP:ENGVAR even provides that "Universally used terms are often preferable to less widely distributed terms, especially in article titles". Some editors claim that 'grey' is valid usage in the USA. If this is true then grey may represent the closest option for common usage in the two countries. The Ngrams supplied by User:Red Slash support the case for this. In any event it's hard to see this article being moved from the name it has occupied for nine years without a broad consensus in favor. EdJohnston (talk) 20:56, 20 July 2014 (UTC)


Grey → Gray – As discussed in the previous section, the article uses US English throughout, but is named with the UK/European spelling. Relisted. Jenks24 (talk) 12:34, 11 July 2014 (UTC) McGeddon (talk) 11:36, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

The article uses US spellings for "color", "airplane", "favorite", "kilometer" and "-ize" in place of "-ise". I'd missed the archive discussion; if "grey" is an acceptable US spelling as well, then perhaps there's no need to move it. (I just hit the talk page after reverting a patchy ENGVAR change and seeing my own unanswered suggestion from a year ago.)--McGeddon (talk) 13:03, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
I was just reading the archive too. Clearly the rationale is that "grey" is "acceptable" as a (US) American English spelling. While true, I think most people would look at this as a non-US spelling, then see the body as inconsistent. In ictu oculi may be correct in saying title and copy don't have to agree, but it's probably less confusing if they do. Do I care enough to want to rehash an old discussion? Nope. – Wdchk (talk) 13:12, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
  • Support. From what I can gleen in the archive, this page initially began at "gray" before it was moved unilaterally. Per ENGVAR it should have stayed there unless there was a compelling reason to move it to 'grey,' which I don't see. Plus, the nominator's rationale makes perfect sense. We use American spelling throughout the article, so it should apply to the title as well. Calidum Talk To Me 14:01, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
  • Support. The title and usage should be in one variant or the other. Apparently the original was US English per ENGVAR, so that's what it should be. That "grey" is theoretically acceptable in US English is neither here or there. It's getting red underlines as I type this, and I have my dictionary set to US English. --В²C ☎ 22:16, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose ( reconsidering see below ) per WP:COMMONALITY ( the first part of ENGVAR, that comes before RETAIN subsection which is the part I'm assuming most are referring to via ENGVAR above ). As the grey spelling is valid in all varieties it should be preferred. PaleAqua (talk) 22:35, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
    Still opposed, but mostly as both titles seem valid and it has had this title for a long time, I don't see any benefit in changing it. PaleAqua (talk) 03:43, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
  • Measured strong support. Now, we do generally try to go for commonality. This article is 100% American English and that variety should be retained (so whether we move it or not, we still should use "color"). It's also true that we do try to use common forms to all varieties of English (soft drink, etc.). Here's the key question: is "grey" significantly more common in American English than "gray" is in British English? First up, a global comparison: "gray" is favored but not by a ton. Let's look now at American English only... Hmm, looks like "gray" is roughly 2.5 to 3 times as popular as "grey". Now, what if Brits actually do use the American form a bit, too? That would mean we don't need to switch the form from the "a" version. And indeed, that's exactly the case. There's less than a two-to-one ratio.
In other words, we are using a spelling lightly favoured by Brits instead of one moderately favored by Americans... in an article in American English. I cordially invite In ictu oculi and PaleAqua to consider this data. Red Slash 00:54, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
User:Red Slash do you think the American publishing industry publishes more books than UK, Australia, Canada, India? Or is it that Indian books aren't generally on Google Books? India is the world's largest English-speaking nation, this article probably should be tagged as being in Indian English. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:02, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
In ictu oculi, with respect, have you ever read our policies on national varieties? WP:ENGVAR is relevant, and it says that we do not ever weigh or consider the varied populations or publishing output of any national variety in order to avoid such arguments (read WP:LAME). Red Slash 22:30, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
If the gray spelling is widely used outside of the US that indeed may be a good counter argument. I use American English myself, I was always lead to believe that gray was not used much outside the US; if that is not the case then that changes things. PaleAqua (talk) 01:37, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
  • Support "gray". The page derives from this, which used "gray" throughout, and has a history starting 16:41, 20 February 2002‎. WP:RETAIN therefore supports "gray", and keeping spellings generally to "gray". I presume that there have been some page renames not evident in the logs. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 02:33, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
    • Interesting, the first version of the article apparently used British spelling ( e.g. colour ) except for the word gray. The 2005 fork and subsequent requested move back look like they didn't closed properly, just sort of petered out. The other issue is long standing... the article only had that version for about three years, and has had grey for nine years now which means it's long standing. Tricky, half tempted to suggest just leaving the status quo as I'm not sure what real benefit moving this would have at this point. Both spellings are valid and I don't think we are going to confuse readers either way. Guess I'll tweak my !vote. PaleAqua (talk) 03:43, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose, as grey is perfectly acceptable in American English and is most common in the rest of the world. Dicklyon (talk) 02:44, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
      • Dicklyon, I hope you don't take any offense, but it is a bit frustrating to me that I posted sources showing that "gray" is used outside of American English more than "grey" is used in America, yet you have written a completely unsourced claim to the contrary. Do you have any support that contradicts the solid evidence I introduced? 22:30, 3 July 2014 (UTC)Red Slash
        • I do find books that say explicitly that it's "grey" everywhere but America; here for example. I don't consider your evidence at all "solid", since I'm pretty sure that Google books has an imprecise algorithm for assigning books to the British and American English categories, and it's ignoring the rest of the English-speaking world. Your evidence does show that "grey" is at least twice as common in British English; other that that, I wouldn't draw any conclusion about the smaller numbers. Dicklyon (talk) 03:16, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose, the article was originally at Grey. Dental plan / lisa needs braces! 13:04, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
    • Not really. Apparently, WAY back in the day, someone wrote a mixed article that was a disambiguation/article-on-the-actual-gray-color mashup. That was at Gray. Then, someone took the content on the color and started the article here at grey, in this edit. WP:RETAIN favors the move. Red Slash 22:30, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose per WP:COMMONALITY. Gray is not acceptable in BrEng but Grey is in AmEng. Zarcadia (talk) 16:06, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
    • Zarcadia, I hope you don't take any offense, but it is a bit frustrating to me that I posted sources showing that "gray" is used outside of American English more than "grey" is used in America, yet you have written a completely unsourced claim to the contrary. Do you have any support that contradicts the solid evidence I introduced? Red Slash 22:30, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
      • Hi Red Slash. No offense taken but I don't agree that your stats provided show that the AmEng spelling for the colo(u)r is more prevalent in BrEng than vice versa. The stats you have provided show absolutely no context, just that the spelling Gray is used in BrEng, which it is in the common surname Gray (surname). Zarcadia (talk) 17:40, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
        • Wow, Zarcadia, I hadn't thought about that. Good call. Here's the caps-sensitive one from the last ten years showing just lowercase "gray"...[6] - if you look at the history, it appears that accepting "gray" is on the rise, but it still is significantly less common than "grey". Red Slash 19:45, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
  • Support It's an article that started using one variation of English, then was switched without consulation or consensus. Change it back to gray, and if someone feels so strongly about it that they want to go through all the motions, let them go through the hassle! It's annoying when the only argument someone has is "well, it's like that in my country!" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.65.196.20 (talk) 12:33, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
  • Support per WP:COMMONNAME. This isn't really an WP:ENGVAR issue, since both spellings are used in all varieties ("Gray" is more common in the US, while "Grey" is more common in the UK and elsewhere, but both are established in all the major varieties[7]). It does appear to be the case that "Gray" is more common outside the US than "grey" is in the U.S., and this article has always used American English.
Given that either spelling is fine, WP:COMMONNAME is the deciding factor, and that would favor "gray". Overall, it's more common than "Grey" according to this ngram and has been since the 19th century.--Cúchullain t/c 17:00, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
No, sorry but WP:COMMONNAME is different to WP:ENGVAR. Of course the U.S. spelling is more common because of the massive population of the United States, that does not mean that that spelling variation overrules other English speaking countries. WP:COMMONNAME refers to words, NOT spelling. Zarcadia (talk) 21:15, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
COMMONNAME absolutely refers to spelling. And the most common spelling does trump less common spellings when there's not really an WP:ENGVAR issue, as here (where both spellings are established across varieties).--Cúchullain t/c 13:23, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
    • Comment: It looks like the earliest history for the topic, from February 20, 2002 and currently found here, was originally located at "Gray". WP:RETAIN, as well as COMMONNAME, favors that spelling.--Cúchullain t/c 17:11, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
      • As I understand RETAIN, Grey would be the prefered name as it has been used for almost a decade and not only for this article but for all the related articles, categories and templates. Note that the original article used UK English even though it used the gray spelling. In 2005 the choice probably should have been made in part using RETAIN / ENGVAR which would have ended up with UK English with the gray spelling. 9 years though after it was set to US English with the Grey spelling, which has since in my opinion become the long standing consensus. I see RETAIN as supporting Grey now. PaleAqua (talk) 21:58, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
        • Well, it's been move protected for years, which explains why it hasn't continued to move around. However, the spellings have been discussed and edit warred over ever since with no resolution in sight. I don't think the status quo is really established. The part of WP:RETAIN I was thinking of was "When no English variety has been established and discussion cannot resolve the issue, the variety used in the first non-stub revision is considered the default." That seems to be the case here, and the earliest use was "gray". And of course I'd regard it as secondary to the WP:COMMONNAME policy argument.--Cúchullain t/c 13:23, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

"Neutral color"

I found this article while searching for "neutral color", as it redirected here. But I'm actually looking for an article on "neutral color" in the sense of various (often non-grey) colors used in a neutral manner—like beige, navy blue, etc. Is there such an article? And if so, there should either be a disambiguation page or a better navigation guide at the top of this article. - Gilgamesh (talk) 00:05, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

Grey in human culture

In fiction

Color coordinates

RGB
All the grey values in greyscale are solutions of the inequality:
CMYK
All the grey values in greyscale are solutions of the inequality:
when .
In theory it is also possible to achieve a greyscale with perfect inks when:
and
HSL
All the grey values in greyscale fit one of the following three equalities:
or (black) or (white).
HSV
All the grey values in greyscale are solutions of the inequality:
when .

Possible removal from list

An entry in List of colors: N–Z contained a link to this page.

The entry is :

  • Pastel gray
  • Trolley grey

I don't see any evidence that this color is discussed in this article and plan to delete it from the list per this discussion: Talk:List_of_colors#New_approach_to_review_of_entries

If someone decides that this color should have a section in this article and it is added, I would appreciate a ping.--S Philbrick(Talk) 16:16, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

Gray/grey isn't American v British

Gray is dark grey/gray Grey is light grey/gray

It's that simple, dudes — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.91.99.69 (talk) 21:26, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

Maybe on Planet Tralfamadore. Blitterbug 10:23, 16 January 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Blitterbug (talk • contribs)

"Grays"

The usage of Grays is under discussion, see Talk:Grays (disambiguation)#Requested move 6 April 2020. Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:11, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

British spelling in title / American in article

The article is titled Grey, with gray given as the American alternative, but spelling in the article itself (i.e. color) is American. Surely the article should use British English in line with the title? Obscurasky (talk) 13:57, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

Also, just looking at online (British English) dictionaries and the use is gray does now seem to be an acceptable alternative spelling in British English too. Obscurasky (talk) 14:03, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
@Obscurasky: grey is a spelling used in all varieties of English, so calling it "the British spelling" is disingenuous. gray is merely more common in American English. 70.188.165.229 (talk) 22:30, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

Images as examples

The "Grey Wolf" and the eruption, look more brown than grey to me. I will try to find some better images to replace them. Will discuss here, once I locate them. Tribe of Tiger Let's Purrfect! 23:23, 22 August 2020 (UTC) Okay, I boldly changed two of the images. They are not predominatly brown, as the previous images were. Thanks, Tribe of Tiger Let's Purrfect! 00:12, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Now, we have a blue-grey cat, greyish/brown painting, an eruption with, possibly, "fifty shades of grey", good neutral grey with the monks, and a sort of pinkish grey fog. Hope this is acceptable.Tribe of Tiger Let's Purrfect! 01:17, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Once again, I have replaced the tan/brown eruption with a grey eruption. If the size/format is a problem, please don't replace with a tan/brown colored image! Just because it is considered to be an ash cloud, doesn't mean that the image shows the color of grey. Tribe of Tiger Let's Purrfect! 06:20, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Grey is not American English

Title of this article are in British English, but the word 'colour' are in American English ('color'). 83.27.157.50 (talk) 23:19, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

That is true. I support the article reflecting the reality of American English or British English respectively. TY — Moops ⋠T⋡ 23:24, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 November 2022

The British spelling are in title, but American spelling are in article. 83.27.157.50 (talk) 23:25, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. It looks like the only American English usage in the article is when discussing the differences in usage between the two. Is there a particular issue you see? ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 23:34, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 December 2022

Change "gary" to "gray" in the first sentence of the article. Maartenn1 (talk) 13:04, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

 Done Terasail[✉️] 13:12, 2 December 2022 (UTC)
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