Talk:Green Cadres

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Green Cadres/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Zawed (talk · contribs) 01:02, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

I will review this one, comments to follow in due course. Zawed (talk) 01:02, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Lead

• in the process of creation of Yugoslavia - grammatically, I think it would read better as "during the process of creating Yugoslavia"
• October–November 1918 violence... - suggest "From October to November 1918 violence...
• The Green Cadres largely dissolved in late 1918 and in 1919. - suggest "The Green Cadres were largely dissolved by 1919."
  • All three modified as suggested.--Tomobe03 (talk) 07:46, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

Background

• In response to the emperor's proposal, Hungarian government - "the" is needed before "Hungarian"
  • Added (T)

Deserting Army

• They would often be cautioned of approaching gendarmes by rural civilian population - "the" is need before "rural"
• In the second paragraph, "Austro-Hungarian army" should be upper case
• Strong Green Cadres presence was also found in Hungarian Bakony Mountains, Slovenian Trnovo Forest Plateau, - grammatically, I think this should be "A strong Green Cadres presence was also found in the Hungarian Bakony Mountains, the Slovenian Trnovo Forest Plateau,"
  • All modified as suggested. (T)

Banditry

• especially in the Carpathian - that should be "Carpathians" (or "Carpathian Mountains")
• Čaruga gained a popular nickname of "Slavonian Robin Hood" and was... - suggest "Čaruga gained a popular nickname, the "Slavonian Robin Hood", and was..." For context to the final sentence discussing Čaruga, suggesting adding mention that he was caught and tried (presumably he was?)
  • Modified as suggested; Yes Čaruga was captured in 1923 during an attempted robbery, tried and sentenced to death. His execution in Osijek drew a crowd of 3000. (T)

Peasant Revolt

• the Austria-Hungary disintegrated, violence... - delete "the" from this sentence
• a week preceding and a week following establishment - suggest "the week before and after the establishment"
• Two days later, soldiers of a Dalmatian and a Czech regiment clashed - not clear if this is two regiments, i.e soldiers of a Dalmatian regiment clashed with those of a Czech regiment, or one, soldiers within a Dalmatian and Czech regiment clashed
• The Green Cadres also took part looting in Našice and Osijek - suggest "The Green Cadres also took part in looting Našice and Osijek"
• hesitated in condemnation of the violence - suggest "hesitated in condemning the violence"
• the National Council relied on conscription of Serbian prisoners of war to combat looting, and sent a delegation to the Royal Serbian Army command on 5 November to send troops - I don't understand the relationship between the National Council and the Royal Serbian Army. I read this as a delegation was sent to request troops, which seems as though the NC was subservient to the RSA. But then, why do the NC have Serbian prisoners of war, as this suggests the the RSA was subservient to the NC?
  • I have added a brief clarification of the Orahovica event - parts of the regiments mutinied, ransacked the barracks and deserted to "Bolsheviks" as stated by the authorities (presumably Green Cadres - but GC is not spelled out by the source). (T)
  • I have added a brief explanation that the Serbian POWs were those captured by the Austro-Hungarian Army in the course of the war (T)
  • I have added a longer explanation of the role of the NC and its relationship with Serbia (and by extension with the Serbian Army). At the time, the NC was preparing for and conducting negotiations with Serbian government (and opposition) regarding the method of unification of the State of Slovenes, Croats and Serbs (at least nominally ruled by the NC) and the Kingdom of Serbia. Apparently there was consesus that the unification would take place, it was only the matter of how and what would the union be organised as (federal, centralised, etc.). (T)
  • Amended other issues as suggested (T)

National emancipation

• wartime airborne leaflet propaganda tool - delete "tool", it is not necessary in this context
• Slovenes, Croats and Serbs declared the general amnesty - replace "the" with "a"
  • Modified as suggested. (T)

Impact and Legacy

• There were also pro-Nazi Green Cadres of Bohemian Germans avoiding draft to the Czechoslovak Army. - suggest providing some context for when this was occurring. I initially read it as being in 1919 to 1920 but that seems a little early for the term Nazi to be used.
  • Added more on this as suggested. Had a look for further sources, but found next to none. (T)
  • As a side note, Beneš refers to this group as the Green Cadres citing Otto Zacke "Vom Grünen Kader zur Braunen Armee" (p.51) where the name is attested at least in the title. (I have no access to Zacke source.) The Sudetendeutsches Freikorps (a different organisation) article contains the following unreferenced sentence: Many ethnic-Germans refused to follow the Czechoslovak army mobilization order and either ran across the border to Germany and joined Freikorps, continuing cross border raids from there, or established Grün Freikorps units which were operating from Czechoslovak forests, receiving arms and equipment from Germany, and continuing raids against Czechoslovak authorities, Jews and Czechs, up until the German occupation of the Czechoslovak border areas following the Munich agreement. The description of the Grün Freikorps fits the Sudeten Green Cadres described by Beneš. I assume this is a synonym for the Green Cadres in Sudeten or a mistaken name derived by combining the names of the Grünen Kader and Sudetendeutsches Freikorps since Grün Freikorps or Green Freikorps appears nowehere except in wikipedia mirrors - not even in German wiki on related topics. A likewise unreferenced sentence in the body prose ...they received name the Green Cadres, sometimes being referred to as Green Freikorps, although they were not officially incorporated as part of German Freikorps. is of little help regarding this matter. (T)

References

• The Headlam ref - the page span is 38 pages (page 2 to 39); that is quite a broad cite range, can it be narrowed?
  • Tightened to pp.4-5; Actually the map is a plate set between pages numbered 4 and 5, so should this be marked otherwise? (T)

Other stuff

• Image tags look OK
• No dupe links

This is an interesting read, thank you for your efforts. It looks pretty good, mainly just minor grammatical stuff that I picked up. I did a few minor edits myself for things that were easier to fix than comment on. Zawed (talk) 04:50, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

Thank you very much for taking time to review this article. I really appreciate the feedback. I believe I have addressed all of your remarks now. Could you please take a look at the changes (especially the Headlam ref) and let me know if that is ok? Thanks--Tomobe03 (talk) 10:09, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

Tomobe03, RE Headlam, if the plate is numbered, e.g. Plate II or Map II, I would use that, otherwise I don't see an alternative to what you have done. This is otherwise looking great. I don't see the need to hold up promotion for you to come back to me on Headlam, so I am passing as a GA now. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 10:01, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

Zawed, the Headlam plate is not numbered, so I'll leave it as is. Thanks for the review!--Tomobe03 (talk) 11:02, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

Comments on copyedit

• " joining, what was described by the authorities as, the Bolsheviks" -> removed as it needs clarification to stay in the article, for example is the authorities' description correct? (t · c) buidhe 07:06, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
  • Since no Bolsheviks (within the meaning of members of the Russian Social Democratic Labour Party/Communist Party othe Soviet Union) were there (at least in any significant number, the claim was more likely have been used as a synonym for a "revolutionary" or something in that respect. Considering the ongoing war in Russia at the time, it seems likely "Bolsheviks" would be a term readily known to readers of contemporary newspaers. I'll reprhrase this shortly. (T)
• the "pogrom spirit of 1848" was present any opinion-based quotes must be attributed per MOS:QUOTE
  • Quite correct. I'll go back to the source and find attribution information first. (T)
• On 18 October, a special court-martial was established in Croatia-Slavonia for the Green Cadres – without much success Needs more explanation of "without much success". What was this court martial trying to achieve and how did it fall short of its goals? (t · c) buidhe 07:51, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
  • It was meant to curb and suppress desertions/mutinies, but little (if anything) was achieved in terms of achieving that goal. I'll add the information needed to clarfy. (T)

Thanks for the copyedit. I appreciate your input very much.--Tomobe03 (talk) 11:22, 16 January 2022 (UTC)