Talk:FIFA Men's World Ranking/Archive 1

Archive 1

Points

Why is it that the points calculated from individual matches don't add up to the points in the top 25 rankings? According to fifa.com, Germany gained 1432.5 and 1042.5 points from their last two competitive international matches, but their total points is only 1413. Is there something I've missed here? - 131.251.141.124 (talk) 13:16, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

The match points are added then divided by the total number of matches. See for example the detailed points totals for Israel's November 2008 FIFA ranking.--Edgar (talk) 07:31, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

All-time highest ratings

The following is a list of national football teams ranked by their highest FIFA score ever reached.

Rank	Nation	Points	Date
1	Spain	1920	17 November 2010
2	Netherlands	1730	9 March 2011
3	Brazil	1672	1 July 2009
4	Italy	1653	13 June 2007
5	Argentina	1616	14 March 2007
6	France	1585	13 June 2007
7	Germany	1490	15 September 2010
8	England	1477	13 September 2006
9	Portugal	1323	13 June 2007
10	Czech Republic	1312	13 September 2006

Why did you delete my table, PeeJay2k3? Why do you think is "unnecessary"? Just because England is 8th??? With your point of view almost everything is "unnecessary". Please, respect the work of the others, you are not the Wikipedia's owner.

Position of the US national team

I think people need to realize what the rankings aren't as much as what they are. They're not power rankings (1 would beat 2 would beat 3 would beat 4), and they're not polls (win and move up until you hit a logjam, lose and you fall). They simply attempt to measure each team's results over the last eight years, and, by that standard, it's tough to argue that the US hasn't had one of the world's best eight-year runs. There's also been a lot of hand-wringing lately over the US's rise to fourth, even though their last two friendlies were a home draw with Jamaica and an away loss to Germany. Well, what nobody's pointing out (except FIFA in the news post that accompanied the new rankings, incidentally) is that the reason the US moved up a slot is that Argentina suffered much more than other countries in the rankings with the recent devaluation of old results. The US didn't move up as much as Argentina fell [Odds (William Hill) for World Cup 2006, 14 June: Argentina 13-2, USA 400-1]. Plus, the US has several positive results buffering against the last two matches, to boot, since the US has played more matches than most international squads this year.

And no, Coke's sponsorship has nothing to do with it. It's a mathematical formula and it's completely known.

[Comment: how did Coke & Fifa arrive at the algorithm, though? To a casual observer it seems specifically designed to inflate US performance, carefully manipulating the weakness and imbalance in CONCACAF].

On the other hand, the criticism below about the CONCACAF Gold Cup has merit, since, yes, the U.S. plays several matches against weaker opposition, though CONCACAF does usually invite a couple of guest nations to compete (South Africa and Colombia in 2005, Colombia and Brazil(!) in 2003). Also noteworthy is that Brazil sent their under-23 team in 2003 and still almost won the tournament, only going out to Mexico in the final in Mexico City.

So what's my point? The rankings actually do a good job of what they're designed for, which is to rate past performance, not predict future success. As far as the U.S. is concerned, the team's going to suffer from being a big fish in a small pond for a while, with only Mexico as a serious rival (though Costa Rica is just a little below them), and with such a split between U.S.-based players and European-based players, it's tough to get a completely full-strength squad most of the time. There are occasional grumblings about the U.S. and Mexico bolting for CONMEBOL, but it won't happen because it's a long way from North America to South America, and neither the U.S. nor Mexico wants to give up a likely WC spot every four years.

Oh, and some people complain that the rankings count friendlies. Well, 1) the more games used in the rankings calculations, the better, and 2) you play to win the game. Tickenest 15:39, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

[First post in this discussion, 8-05: The most striking thing (to me) in the 'Fifa world ranking' is the way it ridiculously inflates US football performance: the highest ever US position in the ELO ranking is 11th, but according to FIFA, the US in August 2005 was the 6th best team in the world - outplaying France, Italy, Spain, Germany, England &c &c.

Could this be in any way related to the fact that the FIFA rankings are sponsored by Coca Cola? Remember 'cocacolonization'?]

[February 2006: USA joint 6th in 'world rankings'. Odds (Ladbrokes) on USA to win World Cup 80-1 (joint 17th).]

Ah yes, just wait until the World cup comes.. [Team America finally score a goal as they lose to Ghana (Fifa ranking 48) and exit]

[Guardian, 12 June 06 - Czech Republic 3 / USA 0: 'This wasn't quite the clash of the titans the Fifa rankings suggested was in store. If the Czech Republic proved worthy claimants to the title of Second Best Team In The World with confidence, poise and excellent finishing, the USA showed how laughable their fifth billing is with a stunning lack of ingenuity']

[BBC - Gary Lineker (Argentina 6 / S&M 0): 'According to FIFA, Argentina is the ninth best team in the tournament, after the likes of Mexico and the USA. FIFA need to watch more football.']

The reason the USA is ranked ridiculously high is partly because of the pathetic opposition that they face, they spend most of their time playing CONCACAF nations, which bar mexico, are somewhat weak, though the point deduction for this is minimal and the points for winning the CONCACAF gold cup, whuch lets be straight, to win all you have to do is beat mexico and the US and no one else is going to stop you, the points for winning the gold cup are the same as winning the UEFA cup or Copa America. Philc _T+C 10:31, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

The algorithm FIFA use is totally to cock. The European Championships are in another league compared to the CONCACAF in terms of quality, yet FIFA ranks these two tournaments equally on scale. The US team should be placed round about 17th (just below Sweden), and Mexico round about 13th. No way should Italy be 9 places below Mexico. This article should have a Criticism section, because a lot of the media can see the unashamed bias of FIFA towards the big bucks of America. -- Boothman _/tɔːk/. 21:27, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

The two tournaments are not ranked equally, though the difference is so pathetic, that I agree, the fifa world rankings are poor way of viewing teams relative strengths, for an accurate view see the Elo football rating. Philc _T^E_C^I 19:19, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

The following block from the first paragraph of the Criticism section is highly POV, using weasel words without sufficient references, and it's poorly written to boot. I'm going to see about looking up some proper references regarding the disparity between the US's rankings and skill, and then do a proper rewrite unless there are any objections. ReMarkAble 00:32, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

"For example Norway were at one time ranked 2nd,[6] and the United States reached 4th, to the surprise of even their own players. The United States do not deserve to be ranked fourth in the world. USA played most of the weaker teams from around the world, which were very easy to win. These games then led to their fourth ranking amongst some of the more elite teams around the world. The Czech republic, England, Brazil, germany, france, Spain, Argentina, Holland, are all much better than the United States.."

It was vandalism, and has since been removed. Philc _T^E_C^I 11:22, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

^^ hahaha, that is soo funny.. BUT REALLY, for a country with a population of over 300 million, the results are kind of sad.. and a country like the czech republic with a population of 10 million is better.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.12.155.116 (talk) 03:30, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

T19?

What should T19 mean, please? If it means "tied 19", then why not use it for "T12"? And anyway, what advantage does "T19, T19" have? (Instead of just showing that visually and not requiring the reader to understand that notation?) --Mormegil 13:37, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Top 20 Rankings for Men Only?

Does anyone have a suggestion for making this article more inclusive? The POV focuses on men's rankings. For instance, the "Top 20 ranking as of" section lists only men's rankings, though it's not titled "Men's Rankings." And the "Overview" states that women's rankings are "not included" in the calculation of FIFA ranking. While it's true that the FIFA Men's ranking system doesn't include other FIFA organizations (like FIFA Women's or futsal), it's not true that only one set of FIFA rankings exists. There are rankings for FIFA Women's and Fair Play rankings for youth. Deebki 08:25, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

see FIFA Women's World Rankings. Philc _T+C 09:40, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi Philc. The fact that FIFA Women's World Rankings article exists doesn't resolve the POV in this article. This article needs to either a) cover all FIFA rankings or b) be renamed "FIFA Men's World Rankings." Deebki 20:23, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Deebki is in fact right. Seems like it's some form of accidental gender bias. Sijo Ripa 20:58, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Not really in non-US sports it is automatically assumed to be male sport, it is not the FIFA mens World Cup, or the UEFA mens Champions League or the FA cup for men, or the mens Barclaycard Premiership, so why should this be any different. And on the website they are solely reffered to as "FIFA/Coca-Cola World Ranking" no mention of gender, while the womens one is called FIFA Women's World Ranking, so really it is just accuracy, not gender bias that results in the name of this article. Philc _T^E_C^I 21:17, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I have to agree with Philc on this one. You people are dragging something out of teh boundery. And Men's FIFA existed way before women's. So Women's would be a little shorter but no gender bias going on.

Copyvio? (resolved)

I'm not usually the copyright police (I don't even know how to mark suspected copyvios), but it sure looks to me like large portions of this page were copied and pasted directly from the FIFA site. Thoughts?--Inonit 03:26, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

No, its a copy edit, if you read it you'll notice that although the format is similar and the paragraphs and bullet points are all about the same size, they actually say different things to what the website says, though explaining the same things. Philc _T^E_C^I 22:14, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Isn't it ?? Philc _T^E_C^I 22:16, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Ermm so you're saying you copied the page and shifted some of the words about. Well looking at a single paragraph at random - what we have is this :

FIFA :

Since its introduction, the FIFA /Coca-Cola Ranking has proved to be a reliable measure for comparing national A-teams. Over the years, some of the details of the ranking process have proved to be in need of improvement, and appropriate revised versions were put into effect at the beginning of 1999.

Wikipedia article :

Since its introduction, the FIFA world ranking has been used as a measure for comparing national senior teams. Since its introduction some of the details of the ranking process have proved to be in need of improvement, and a revised version was put into effect at the beginning of 1999. However, this system is still considered inferior to the Elo Ratings.

I'm sorry but that's plagiarism, as clear as day. Jooler 03:20, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

[Actually, it reads more like a careful rewrite ('copy-edit') than plagiarism. One could even imagine some embarrassed FIFA footsoldier trying to distance himself from Coca-Cola (on Wikipedia), while arguing in this discussion section that the ever-more apparent problems are not really significant. And I guess FIFA has finally realized that unless they change their system, the improving USA team will soon be the best in the world (well, second to Brazil, anyway, despite losing at home to Morocco &c &c)]

Just for the record, now the text in question has been removed, rewritten and readded to the article, with just as little reference to coca cola, i mean.. urr.. what? no! shhhh... shifty eyes... Philc _T^E_C^I 00:48, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Jooler's comment is without doubt correct. Copy-editing something then claiming it is a distinct work is pretty much as close to plagiarism as you can get! TheGrappler 19:12, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

[...And it's not as if the 'copy-edit' was neutral... my point about removing references to Coca-Cola, and nodding to the laughable pro-US bias in the ranking algorithm, was that it read like a 'defensive' copy-edit...]

Well, it can't be that hard to fix. Just glom the facts out of it and re-write it. That's an awful big ugly thing of a copyright violation BTW. Scary looking thing ... Wiggy! 01:46, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

[It's only a copyright violation if our 'copy-editor' has no connection with Fifa or Coca Cola] —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.132.231.94 (talk • contribs) 02:32, 23 June 2006.

Where are the rankings?

I recognise that theyy were a strong bait to page vandals (I have done some reversions of such), but to have an article on a rankings list that doesn't include current rankings seems perverse. Kevin McE 12:06, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

The current rankings are there - to the right of the TOC. Poulsen 12:11, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

D'oh Kevin McE 12:20, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Not Neutral

The article is not neutral, as the editor of the article talked a lot against Brazil. I don't know what I could do, so just leaving comments here. Hopefully someone will look into that. Priyanshu 18:21, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Looks like someone already edited it :) Priyanshu 18:23, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

This list is crap

Just my opinion. Germany which won 3 World cups is in the 19th place and USA is 5th. Sorry it does not pass the laugh test.--Omnicog 18:48, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Ranking take into account the last 8 years. Neither won any world cups in the last 8 years. Philc _T^E_C^I 17:39, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Uruguay won two world cups, but last year could not even get past Australia to qualify for the World Cup. Omnicog, your point doesn't bear close analysis. Ordinary Person 12:14, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Constant Vandalism

This article is subject to constant vandalism, including rearranging of the rank, per users wishes, re-assignment of points, constant introduction of POV and sometimes offensive statements, and increasingly often, blanking entire sections, which appears to go un-noticed for several days each time.

Can we get one of those padlock thingys to prevent non-registered users from wrecking this page. Philc _T^E_C^I 17:56, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

You're thinking about semi-protection, where the page cannot be edited by anonymous or relatively new users. See Wikipedia:Requests for page protection. Kevin_b_er 15:32, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Best Seven matches

Although the practice of taking only the "best seven" matches of the year was intended to prevent teams that play more rarely from being disadvantaged, it should be clear that teams that play more often will still be favoured by this system. Consider two teams, of equal ability and strength of opposition, Team A plays 20 matches a year, Team B plays 8 matches a year. From basic stats, you would expect the average of the best seven of Team A's matches to be better than the best 7 of Team B's matches. Ordinary Person 12:19, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Tell it to FIFA. Philc _T^E_C^I 00:48, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

split old calculation systems onto separate pages?

This page is getting too long. I don't think we need the details of the old (pre July 2006) system on this page. I propose we split that section into its own page.

If I don't hear a good reason otherwise soon, I'll do it when I can.

Wantok 03:25, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Not yet. While the old system probably has undue weight right now, I can see a few ways to make it shorter without losing much depth, particularly as some parts more or less repeat the description of the new system. If it still looks over-long after a thorough copyedit, then split, but splitting now would result in two verbose pages which repeat each other. Oldelpaso 07:24, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

As an example, I've changed the regional strengths section for the old rankings. If something similar is done throughout I don't think a split will be necessary. The most pressing task is to ensure old rankings are referred to in the past tense. Oldelpaso 07:36, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Agreed that the length of the old-system section can be reduced, but is there any point? The old system now is pretty academic - only of interest to those comparing calculation systems. Given the space it occupies on the page now, even reduced down it would be disproportionately large. And I think that a detailed description of the old system just adds to the general impression of complexity and makes the article less readable. Having it on a separate page allows us to retain the detail, for those really interested, without bogging down the main page. Wantok 10:08, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree on the idea of splitting. If the old ranking system were to be covered in detail, the only way it would make sense would be to go point-by-point comparing it to the new one, and then we could revisit removing that comparison in a year or two. I understand the desire not to destroy the work that's there, but we should put it on a separate page.--Inonit 16:10, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

OK, I've created a new page for the 1999-2006 system here: FIFA men's ranking system 1999-2006. I've also gone through and changed to the past tense where appropriate. I propose we replace the current 1999-2006 section with a short summary and link. Wantok 13:58, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I've made that change now - the 1999-2006 method is now split off onto the new page FIFA men's ranking system 1999-2006 and that section of this FIFA World Rankings page has been replaced with a short summary paragraph and link. Wantok 07:58, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

PhilC, why reintroduce that section on match importance (in the 99-06 section of this page)? It seems strange to have detail on that one factor only, of the seven factors used. I realise it was in the overview but it really didn't belong there before, either. I'll remove it now. I like what you've added to the initial para (from the overview) - makes sense. Wantok 13:57, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

It was the overview section from the 99-06 page which gives a low detail overview of the procedure, I thought it was serve nicely as the summary of the page recquired for that section of this page. Philc _T^E_C^I 14:12, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

men only?

I don't think it's reasonable for this page to only talk about the men's ranking (current intro in fact defines "FIFA World Rankings" as the system used in men's football).

We should have a section for men's, and a section for the system used for women's ranking. Perhaps a separate page for the description of the women's calculation system - which is based on the ELO technique. I believe the youth rankings use the same system as the men's, but I could be wrong there.

Wantok 03:28, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Have you seen this? FIFA Women's World Rankings -- Earl Andrew - talk 04:12, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks - and indeed the link to the women's page is in the See Also section. I suppose my concern is mainly with the article title. This article is about men's rankings only, so perhaps it should be renamed "FIFA Men's World Rankings" - with a redirect from "FIFA World Rankings" to it, of course. Wantok 04:47, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

The term "FIFA World Rankings" is used far more commonly to refer to the men's rankings than the women's rankings. A Google search for "FIFA world rankings -wikipedia" does not have a result referring to the womens rankings until the fifth page, so I don't think disambiguation is needed. Perhaps a notice at the top saying :This article is about the men's rankings. For women's rankings, see FIFA Women's World Rankings. would be a better solution. Oldelpaso 07:14, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Agreed that would be a good idea. I think a change of article name is justified, too - for the sake of accuracy. The article is about men's rankings, specifically. "FIFA World Rankings" should certainly redirect here, though, for the reasons you've outlined. Wantok 07:20, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I think that would be overdoing precision. To me, this situation is analogous to Liverpool F.C., which is about the English club even though there is a Uruguayan club of the same name (whose article is at Liverpool FC (Montevideo)), because the vast majority of searches will expect to find the English club. Probably more pertinently, FIFA World Cup is about the men's tournament with no redirect, and FIFA itself appears to use "FIFA World Rankings" and "FIFA Women's World Rankings" Oldelpaso 07:55, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

OK, fair enough. I've added a link at top of page to the women's ranking page. Wantok 10:04, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

No, according to the FIFA website the official name of these is the FIFA Coca Cola World Rankings, and the womens ones are the FIFA womens world rankings, please see the duscussion above. Any gender bias here is on the part of FIFA, not wikipedia, and wikipedia as it should, has accurately recorded the information as the case is.Philc _T^E_C^I 19:38, 21 July 2006 (UTC) IT'S OBVIOUS WHY IT'S MEN ONLY!! THAT"S WHAT IT SAYS! GO DO WHAT EARL ANDREW SAID IF YOU WONDER WHY!!

Footnote

Question - should a footnote be included, if one has to register with the site in order to read the full article. I refer what is currently number 7, linking to an article where the Americans can't believe they're ranked 4th. Surely if there is no article without registration, there should be no link? --Andymarczak 13:35, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, the article used to freeview, I added it (I think), and I certainly haven't registered. Ohwell, I don't know what the appropriate thing to do is. Philc _T^E_C^I 14:05, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

As it's from Associated Press, the story should be somewhere else that doesn't need registration. The Wikipedia policy has some suggestions for finding other online copies. Wantok 01:54, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Help please

I have started a fairly major task: to include the highest and lowest in these rankings into the infobox for every national side. This was inspired by a rainy day and a request on Talk:Republic of Ireland national football team. I duly made the changes to Template:Infobox National football team and have so far only altered Republic of Ireland national football team and the 10 members of CONMEBOL. The task basically consists of soucing the info at http://www.fifa.com/en/mens/statistics/rank/compare.html?static=5 and pasting the following code in each teams article, somewhere within the infobox brackets, with the relevant dates and rankings replacing these data(which are for Rep of Ireland). Perhaps anyone taking on part of this task could "baggsy" a set of nations here, to prevent duplication of effort. Kevin McE 00:30, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

1st ranking date = August 1993 |
FIFA max = 5 |
FIFA max date = August 1993 |
FIFA min = 57 |
FIFA min date = November 1998 |

Oceanea done as well, but the remaining confederations are biggies... Kevin McE 11:30, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I've done the UK nations Fedgin 11:33, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Well I've done the rest of UEFA (apart from Ukraine, which is under edit protection)...Kevin McE 01:03, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Note that there is a discussion ongoing in Template talk:Infobox National football team if these informations should be kept or removed.--Kwame Nkrumah 19:25, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Result of discussion was keep Kevin McE 08:53, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Sept 06 update

I have done the FIFA rankings update for Sept 2006 for all federations apart from Africa and Oceania, but I will not be able to get at Wi9ki for about a week: anyone game to have a go at them rather than leave it out of date. If anyone is feeling really co-operative, or bored, the FIFA max/mins as in the heading above still need doing for CAF Kevin McE 08:53, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

The table needs to be updated for November 2006, but I don't think I know much enough about wiki formatting, so perhaps someone could do something?--81.236.17.8 18:54, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

erm: I updated it on the day the new rankings came out. Not sure what this user is expecting to see. Kevin McE 20:14, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Explain Please

Can someone please explain the following The equation to give ranking points is given as

Ranking points = (Result points) x (Match status multiplier) x (Opposition strength multiplier) x (Regional strength multiplier) x (Date multiplier) x 100

Based on this, any team beating another team in the top 10 during the world cup finals would gain approx 3x3x1.90x1x1x100=1710 points

This is more than the total number of points that Brazil at the top of the table have.

Am I missing something? Should the the x100 multiplier be removed. Are the points on the table an average? Graemec2 09:18, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

IT SHOULD BE 10, NOT 100

I'm guessing from the figures that they're an average; but it needs explaining. --Robdurbar 20:41, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

As the examples make clear, a team can get a maximum of 2400 points from a single game (Andorra beating Germany in the World Cup final?) so I assume the ranking is your average point score of all your matches. The maximum possible score would then be (somewhat less than*) 2400, which I guess fits with the 1500-1600 that the current top nation has. 213.112.249.100 11:02, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

• ) unless all your five minimum matches in a single period are world cup finals against the highest ranking team... ;-)

Despite their claim of "transparency", the FIFA site is not very clear about how exactly the rankings are calculated using the specified criteria. As near as I can tell, each side receives points for each match based on the formula: Ranking points = (Result points) * (Match status multiplier) * (Opposition strength multiplier) * (Regional strength multiplier) * 100

These points are averaged for matches four over twelve month periods (0-12 months, 13-24, 25-36, 37-48), with 5 being the minimum divisor. If you play less than 5 matches in any of the 12 month groupings, your total points are still divided by 5. Then, they multiply the most recent 12 month average by 1, the previous 12 months by 0.5, the previous 12 months by 0.3, and the oldest 12 month average by 0.2. Finally, they add these four products to achieve the total points, which is the published point total.

It would be really helpful if the FIFA procedure page went into a bit more depth. They go into great detail in how to calculate points for individual games, but say little to nothing about how those points are averaged and how the date multiplier figures into it. 72.11.3.172 (talk) 05:45, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

I think it's pretty clear. But if you need more details, see this pdf file detailing the point totals for the top 20 teams in the October 2007 ranking. --Edgar (talk) 06:08, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Comparison with ELO Rankings

'Significant changes were implemented in 1999 and again in 2006, in order to allow FIFA's system to compete with the Elo ratings, which were considered a more accurate, credible guide to the teams' rankings.'

This appears to be a highly biased statement. I mean the FIFA rankings obviously have their problems - I'm not a massive fan - but I've never heard anyone say that the ELO ratings are considered any better (in fact, one hears very little of them). If this could be changed to a sourced comment stating that 'some commentators' consider the ELO rankings better, then fine; but for now its got to go. --Robdurbar 14:26, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Criticism...

I don't understand why it is so surprising that Norway was on the 2nd place in October 1993. They did beat Turkey 3-1, Poland 3-0, England 2-0, and played a raw against Holland. Right now they are at 51st, that I understand...

and results like that are why they were so ranked. But very few football fans if asked in 1993 to name the best two sides in the world would have placed Norway among them: that is why an editor found it surprising. But who is to say that the statistics are wrong and common perception is right...Kevin McE 23:12, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

I like how Argentina are second place after getting their asses whipped 3-0 by Brazil...If France beats Brazil, why are they 4th, and if Argentina loses to Brazil by such a large margin, how are they even in the top 5?! Plus, England deserves to have a low spot and Italy does too... 2-1 Faroe Islands?! COME ON! World Champions my ass. Brazil, France, Germany, Portugal, and Spain are the best.

dude, i'm sorry, but argentina is the best team in the world according to the rank. and it was very funny to say that spain or portugal are good teams.. (what did they win and when anyway?, eternal and everlasting losers.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.32.56.2 (talk) 20:40, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

"A" Match

Could anyone explain me about the All international "A" matches? I quite don't understand what the meaning of this. I found it in the first criteria in the FIFA Web. Thank you --Manop - TH 23:58, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

"A" in the sense that it is in contrast to a "B" international, or an under-age selection, an A match is more commonly referred to (in the UK at least) as a full international: it is the designation given by FIFA to games in which the nation's strongest team could be selected, although in practice it often is not. FIFA lists all A internationals (its designation" since 1980: prior to that, whether games were full internationals is not always clear, and is in effect a matter of the intention of the FAs involved.Kevin McE 00:42, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

What is Guinea doing on there?

Guinea has never qualified for a World Cup or done anything else.They've never won an African Nations Cup well Poland's won the Olympics.And they're ranked higher than Poland.What a joke. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.68.34.126 (talk) 23:28, 18 December 2006 (UTC).

What is Guinea doing on there? Reflecting their position as calculated and reported by FIFA: there would be no justification for the Wikipedia article doing otherwise. There is no real surprise that they hold this position: they were higher a few months ago. Citing a 1972 Olympic vitory by another team shows that you have not read the article closely enough to realise that the rankings are based on the last 4 years, and that Poland's rank is entirely unaffected by that win. You might find it surprizing that Guinea is so highly rated, but unless you can scrutinise their results for the last 4 years and demonstrate that FIFA have miscalculated, then their ranking is no more than a reflection that reputation and performance are not always closely correlated, which is, IMHO, what makes such rankings interesting. Kevin McE 23:48, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

But,the thing is,that Poland actually has done better in the past 4 years than Guinea.They did qualify for all the world cups in the past 4 years and Guinea's Africa Nations Cup Runner-Up place was in 1976 (the only thing they've ever done) which was not in the past 4 years.So,Poland should probably be ranked ahead.

Your perception is that Poland have done better in the last 4 years, but the FIFA World Rankings are based on a formula that considers match results and the statistical strength of the opposition, with weighting adjustments, not subjective perceptions. There has only been one World Cup in the last 4 years, and the fact of qualifying does not earn rankings points: read the article to see how points are gained; as I said above, if you can demonstrate that FIFA have miscalculated, I'm sure they would be delighted to know. But this page is for discussing the article, not the merits or faults of FIFA's formula for calculation, and all the article can do, if it is to avoid OR, is to report the rankings as published by the relevant authority. Kevin McE 15:39, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

I am almost sure that Rank 23 for Guinea is a mistake made by FIFA. Most probably some of the good results made by Ghana were attributed also to Guinea since the introduction of the new calculation after last world cup. Ghana and Guinea sound almost equal in several languages (like German and English), so they might have been confounded. I even e-mailed my suspicion to FIFA, but there was no reaction at all. But concerning Guinea I have another question concerning the calculation: Normally a team can only win points by playing matches and can only loose points by devaluation of matches already over a year old. But Guinea won 37 Points (from 819 in November up to 856 Points in December), although they played their last match in October 07. And Ghana too have not played since the deadline (November 16.) for November ranking. Or have I missed a rule in the calculation? How can Guinea win points without playing?!

My guess: In this case the matches of Guyana (also similar to Guinea) have been attributed also to Guinea. Guyana wins 35 points and Guinea wins 37 points. Guyana won against Antigua and Barbuda (November 24.), Guadeloupe (November 26.) and Dominican Republic (November 28.). But Guinea itself has not played since October 07. --Rheinländer 13:05, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

How many matches has Guinea played and won? Somebody who knows should tell us!Actually,never mind.I just found out that Guinea's match on October 7 was a 1-0 loss to Cape Verde. I also discovered that Guinea's record in the past 4 years (From December 21,2002) was 13 wins;9 draws and 8 losses. I don't think they should be on there.

It could be to do with matches only counting for the last 4 years. If they had some particularly poor results around 4 years ago then the negative scores from these matches are no longer taken into the calculation of ranking points when it updates. Hence they gain points without playing. Something similar happened to Scotland a few months back, they went up to 16th wothout playing any matches coz 4 years ago they drew with the Faroes...

Make no mistake abt it, Guinea is infact 30th in the FIFA world rankings. Thats the debate abt it how a team whos never been in the World Cup and its highest ever finish in the African Nations Cup was second in 1976 can be coming 30th ahead of teams like Australia, Japan, Chile etc...I dont like the system and theres a heap of people that wud agree with me. Another example, how can USA be infront of teams like Uruguay, Sweden, Turkey, Serbia, Nigeria...its simply because they played in the gold Cup or woteva its called where they beat all these mino teams e.g. Guadaloupe who team is made up of players born in places like France, but all the points count and for me there still needs to b adjustments to the system, nevertheless, the Guinea thing isnt a mistake...And btw Poland are top of their Euro 2008 qualifying group infront of Finland Portugal and Serbia atm i.e. as at 12/11/07 does that not count for anything...these rankings are probly not an accurate judgement of each team but u gotta realise that such things are hard to measure i just dont take notice of the rankings...One more example, european teams r at a disadvantage becoz of the fact that europe is highly contested, a team such as Poland wud often have to play a team such as France or Italy whereas an african team wud often play mino nations and although they get less points for winning the european nations are being punished for not beating the worlds best..........In CONCLUSION this ARTICLE is accurate... Sydneyman_Kris 10:24, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: any team that is listed here appears because it is in the top 30 on the FIFA rankings. This is a discussion page for the article, not for the accuracy or justice of the formula by which FIFA calculate the rankings which are reported in this article. If you think there is a fault in that process, contact FIFA about it: it is not the purpose of this discussion page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kevin McE (talk • contribs) 20:17, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia

Wikipedia is not a ääähm Nachrichten page! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 89.59.72.31 (talk) 17:38, 19 February 2007 (UTC).

Friendly matches...

Are friendly matches included in this system? I didn't find any info regarding that in the article.

For example theres a match in August between Norway and Argentina. If Norway win will it count? Will it give extra points because of the distance between Norway and Argentina?

See the article: yes, friendlies are included in the calculation, but they are given a lower weighting than competition games: no, there is no weighting given in respect of distance traveled for matches. Kevin McE 13:35, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Australia #1?

Somethings wrong here,i see the rankings and all of the countries are Australia.Did someone mess with the rankings?--Cokepepsi 03:46, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

FIFA Rankings fixed

Well im glad that the rankings are fixed.Some smart guy made all the 30 teams in the rankings Australia and saying australia got a 50-0 win over england!Im glad the rankings are fixed,but want to know who mest up the rankings?It seemed like the rankings almost got completly destroyed.

This happens a lot, because this article is a high-risk target for vandals. The good thing is all those changes can easily be reverted, so no need to give it a special emphasis. Artyom (talk • contribs) 07:31, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Only top 30

Why is it that only the top 30 teams are shown in the table? Why not have the table include the top 40 or even top 50? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Richard LVP Real (talk • contribs) 19:29, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

thats what i said —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.12.155.116 (talk) 03:37, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, 30 sounds like a random number to me. I say 25 or 50. Greecepwns 22:17, 26 January 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Greecepwns (talk • contribs)

There's a note in the hidden comment that precedes the ranking table in the source code: Please do not extend this beyond thirty countries. Doing so causes legal issues (copyright of the list is owned by FIFA) and also affects the aesthetics of the page. I didn't find any information about the list being copyrighted, but, in any case, expanding the table will cause the article to look ugly. Artyom (talk • contribs) 22:26, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Is it acceptable to use the FIFA rankings for each region on the region pages, such as the top "X" number of teams in UEFA, CONCACAF, etc.? Would it be acceptable to only show the current rankings for whatever nations are currently in the FIFA Top 25? I don't want to make a box only to have it deleted for copyvios. JohnnyPolo24 (talk) 12:41, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

I have little doubt that FIFA will not enforce any alleged copyright regarding the full ranking list. Newspapers throughout the world have been publishing the full ranking list and I am not aware of any action from FIFA to enforce such suggested copyright. However, to avoid a long debate on whether such copyright exists or not, I have inserted a link to the full rankings. I hope this will not be removed by an administrator. Zingi (talk) 19:26, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Link already existed at the top of the table: duplication removed. Kevin McE (talk) 10:17, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Clean up needed

I believe a cleanup is needed. Im quite sure the poor teams at the top of the table (Pak and Bang) are no where near the top countries. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.210.64.214 (talk) 10:58, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

I put spain and italy as the top 2 nations, but im not sure of the points and more finite details, someone else might want to check my edits. I just wanted Pakistan and Bangladesh off the leaderboard. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.210.64.214 (talk) 11:01, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

I just want your racist language off this site. Kevin McE (talk) 18:01, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

yeah that just ridiculous, their is just point in dictating the FIFA world rankings to your own liking. this is true even without your racist remarks about your old British Raj. but deciding on which team needs to 1,2 or 3 to your own liking is even more stupid.NH-obi (talk) 16:07, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

A Question

I don't know much about football, buth Argentina keep on winning the Gold Medal at the Olympics. How come they are rated so lowly and rated higher in Rugby? I reckon that Argentina, Italy and Brazil are all better than Spain. This rating system is flawed to my mind. Wallie (talk) 14:49, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

The Olympics are considered an amateur tournament and do not affect the FIFA Rankings. --Edgar (talk) 07:32, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Criticism

"Another criticism is that a countries points are the average of all matches played over the past four years (with decreasing contribution), resulting in situations where winning a game reduces a countries ranking. For example if England wins against Spain (ranked 1st), in a friendly they will gain (3 x 1 x 2 x 1 x 100) = 600 points for the match. If the average of their previous matches is 1173 before playing Spain (i.e. England has 1173 pts in the FIFA world ranking system), after playing Spain there will be an additional game with 600 pts contributing to the average, resulting in a new average of less than 1173."

1. I've seen this kind of criticism only on message boards. Please provide a source for this.

2. The explanation is flawed, because the 600 points only affect the average of the last 12 months and I can come up with an example where the average of a team with 1173 points will actually rise after winning a friendly.

Please consider rephrasing or something.--Edgar (talk) 10:07, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Papua New Guinea

What's the reason for lowest position of Papua ? I understand 203th place for Anguilla, Montserrat, American Samoa, i also can understand it for San Marino... But Papua ? It's real not the weakest FIFA team. Is it due to the reason that PNG was disqualified for 2010 World Cup ? --79.49.34.93 (talk) 14:18, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Well the only way a team can get ranking points is to either draw or win a match within the 4 year period considered for results. PNG have only played one game in that time, and they lost that, so they have 0 points, so they are joint last. The lack of points is not a sanction for the WC disqualification, nor have they been banned from playing matches for 4 years, but at least those WC qualifying games would have given them the chance to earn a few points. As far as I am aware, they are eligible to arrange and play friendlies that will count. Kevin McE (talk) 17:29, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

PNG will play two friendlies later this year.Edgar (talk) 07:08, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps they ought to tell FIFA about that, they don't seem aware of it. Kevin McE (talk) 11:32, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

FIFA don't do 'sometime' :) Plans mooted to start Pacific Cup 'Meanwhile, he said PNG, Solomon Islands and Vanuatu would gear up for international matches sometime in September.'Edgar (talk) 06:11, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

So perhaps our anonymous friend who started the thread can look forward to PNG rising rapidly up the rankings over the next few months (unless, of course, they keep getting beaten in these games). Kevin McE (talk) 15:27, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Colours in table:why?

Is there any merit in the colours of the top 25 table? I could present a number of arguments against: it might raise accessibility issues for those with colour perception difficulties, it introduces colours that have no obvious association with the entities they represent, it causes an additional task for the monthly edit of the table, it is in the opinion of at least one editor unsightly, it is unnecessary as the team's confederation is already clearly indicated. I cannot imagine that there is any meaningful argument in favour of it apart from some people's appreciation of the aesthetic. So if you think it should be kept, present your case. Kevin McE (talk) 18:13, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

I actually find it easier to distinguish each conference by the color than by the conference name, though I have to agree with the majority of your points. (Though I would probably discount the accessibility issue until someone complained.) So if you want to take it out, I would agree. --69.198.54.241 (talk) 20:35, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Belated comment. The colour background would only be a serious issue if it hindered the accessibility of the text. So possible issues with the previous version would have been the red background on blue links (conflicting colors) and blue/purple background on blue links (same colour grouping although the Wikipedia Main Page seems to have other ideas). The others being green and yellow/orange backgrounds would have been okay. Transaction Go (talk) 14:39, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Honduras won the titleof the year??

I think that's a mistake, someone fix it please. There are some other errors. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.161.242.15 (talk) 20:55, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

No, Honduras did win team of the year in 2001. Check the source. – PeeJay 21:23, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Regional strength calculation formula???

Does anyone know how regional strength is calculated? Only thing I could find was a vague description that it's confederation wins per match over the last three World Cups. However, how does that translate into actual point values? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.49.49.32 (talk) 02:18, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

There's a formula here, but it has its problems.--Edgar (talk) 10:29, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

How to obtain average rankings during the Assessment Period

Can anyone help?

I've created my own FIFA Rankings update to keep track of the positions of countries and have calculated the latest points tally up to the day before the World Cup and since the previous release in May 2010. Taking into account the match status, result point, opponent strength and regional strength by my own formulas I have calculated that Brazil, for example, accrued 782 ranking points for their results between the 26th May 2010 and the start of the World Cup. By the same calculation method I have devised that England gained 663 points during the same period.

However, how do I now add these ranking points to an updated table overall to include the average points gained during the assessment period? i.e. Matches played over the last four years (48 months) are included in the calculation, but there is a weighting to put more emphasis on recent results.

I hope someone can aid me in constructing this calculation method.

ComradeBT —Preceding unsigned comment added by ComradeBT (talk • contribs) 20:19, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

This link could be of some help. Detailed point totals examples --Edgar (talk) 09:00, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Nigeria is First!

This page is commonly vandalized. Nigeria was put in 1st place by someone. I changed this, but the should be protection on this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.8.212.56 (talk) 12:06, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Ironically...if there was standard protection on it, the editor in question could still have done the bad change - but you couldn't have fixed it!. Thank you for your contribution. BTW, ESP is the code for Spain --ClubOranje^T 12:24, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

São Tomé e Príncipe and Papua New Guinea

The article states that one member, São Tomé and Príncipe, is not included in the rankings as they have not played a recognised international fixture since their 8–0 loss against Libya in 2003. The report for this match is located here. São Tomé and Príncipe were excluded in November 2007 on completing four years without a fixture, as rankings take into account only results over the last 4 years.

Archived Talk

Archive up till June 2011

São Tomé e Príncipe and Papua New Guinea

The article states that one member, São Tomé and Príncipe, is not included in the rankings as they have not played a recognised international fixture since their 8–0 loss against Libya in 2003. The report for this match is located here. São Tomé and Príncipe were excluded in November 2007 on completing four years without a fixture, as rankings take into account only results over the last 4 years.

Papua New Guinea played their most recent game on 13 July 2007 and have no upcoming fixtures scheduled by FIFA, so we might expect that they will be excluded too when the rankings are updated on 27 July this year, and be ready to reflect this in the article.

FIFA refers to São Tomé and Príncipe as "São Tomé e Príncipe" (in Portuguese), by the way. --Theurgist (talk) 21:37, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

All-time highest ratings

The following is a list of national football teams ranked by their highest FIFA score ever reached.

Rank	Nation	Points	Date
1	Spain	1920	17 November 2010
2	Netherlands	1730	9 March 2011
3	Brazil	1672	1 July 2009
4	Italy	1653	13 June 2007
5	Argentina	1616	14 March 2007
6	France	1585	13 June 2007
7	Germany	1490	15 September 2010
8	England	1477	13 September 2006
9	Portugal	1323	13 June 2007
10	Czech Republic	1312	13 September 2006

Why did you delete my table, PeeJay2k3? Why do you think is "unnecessary"? Just because England is 8th??? With your point of view almost everything is "unnecessary". Please, respect the work of the others, you are not the Wikipedia's owner.— Preceding unsigned comment added by User:89.129.13.168 (talk • contribs)

Again PeePeeJay2k3? If you can not understand the encyclopEdic value of this does not mean is worthless, just your brain. There are another "All-time highest ratings" lists in other articles and no "wisdomlessboy" says "what is the encyclopaedic value of this?". Who do you think you are? We try to make, with our job, Wikipedia larger, greater and with more data to consult and a child, who thinks is the Wikipedia's owner, the only thing he does here is delete the people's work. I repeat: "Who do you think you are??". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.203.171.197 (talk) 19:41, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

The table appears to be original research, which is not permitted on Wikipedia. If a table or analysis of highest ranking scores has not been published elsewhere, it cannot be included here, as Wikipedia is a tertiary source. I doubt PeeJay is bothered about England's position; he isn't English. Oldelpaso (talk) 20:42, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

O.O OMG!! PeeJay2k3 has gone running to find someone to think in an excuse to delete it. Is not an opinion. Is not a theoretical interpretation of something! It's a fully verifiable data compilation on FIFA.com. That rule is not applicable here. Where has been published table "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Football_Elo_Ratings#All-time_highest_ratings"? It's the same table. He isn't English, he's British and his favourite team is the ManU... like you. Oh! I see... You two are angry because they lost the UEFA Champions League against Barcelona and now you are trying to find some (invalid) excuse because you hate Spain. Because I can't understand why you two are trying to delete it with nonsense excuses.

Please read the linked policy page, particularly the section headed "Synthesis of published material that advances a position". I can't help but raise a smile at your accusation of a pro-Manchester United bias on my part, as nothing could be further from the truth. Oldelpaso (talk) 17:38, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Pfffff You have no clue about Wikipedia's rules! This table advance a position??? This is not an opinion! This is not a theoretical interpretation of something! You are who must read it (Once and again and again and again... until you understand it) Is there anyone enough smart here? Tell me... how old are you? Ah! And there are something further from the truth: Your excuses. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.203.171.197 (talk) 21:07, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Discouraging friendly matches?

I could be mistaken, but doesn't the current system quite heavily discourage friendly matches? For example, if a team plays 10 world cup qualifying matches in a year and wins 5 of them, they might get 500 points for that year (1000 for each win averaged [example numbers] times 5, divided by total matches). However, let's say another team also plays 10 world cup qualifying matches, winning 5, but additionally plays 10 friendly matches, also winning 5 of those. In that case they might get (5*1000+5*500)/20=375 points. The straight forward solution would be to instead of using multipliers simply do a weighted average, meaning instead of dividing by total matches you divide by the total "importance rating" for all games. Considering they did "research" to come up with this new method I cannot believe they overlooked something so simple, so maybe the description is wrong rather than the method. MatsT (talk) 21:03, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

Only discourages friendlies if the teams' management and associations prioritise ranking above revenue and match practice. But this is a talk page about constructing the article, not a forum for discussing the pros and cons of the rankings system, so this should be dropped. Kevin McE (talk) 23:55, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

As the ranking is used for things such as seeding into qualifier groups, it's definitely not trivial, but I agree I should take that issue elsewhere if the current description is correct. MatsT (talk) 03:25, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Ranking Shootout two-leg ties

I noticed User:98.207.152.31 edited this page a few weeks ago with regards to penalty shootouts in two-legged draws. However, he did not add a source, and rather left the current one which contradicted him and agreed with what was there. So, I have reinserted the original content and left a message on his talk page. If anyone has a source saying he's right, insert it. Smartyllama (talk) 21:08, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

September ranking updated

You may have noticed FIFA have updated the September ranking (i.e. they have published a new ranking this week - one a bit different from the one they've published on Sep 21).

The explanation is here.

I think this should be somehow included in the article, but feel free to do as you see fit. I don't want to make an edit and then to have someone remove the content because "blog not a RS for blogger's claim of his own influence" :)

Edgar (talk) 09:58, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

Merging cells

There have now been at least three (and maybe more) occasions when users have merged multiple cells indicating the progressions of multiple teams as one. See here for a prediction of the probable rankings in December. Let's suppose this holds true. How would we then like to have our table on 21 December:

This way? Rankings Rank Change Team Points 1 Spain 1564 2 Netherlands 1365 3 Germany 1345 4 Uruguay 1309 5 England 1173 6 Brazil 1143 7 Portugal 1100 8 Croatia 1091 9 Italy 1082 10 Argentina 1067 11 Denmark 1035 12 Russia 971 13 Chile 970 14 Greece 964 15 France 915 16 Ivory Coast 912 17 Switzerland 898 18 Sweden 891 19 Japan 884 20 3 Bosnia and Herzegovina 867 21 1 Mexico 864 22 1 Republic of Ireland 851 23 1 Australia 838 24 Paraguay 795 25 Norway 788

Or this way? Rankings Rank Change Team Points 1 Spain 1564 2 Netherlands 1365 3 Germany 1345 4 Uruguay 1309 5 England 1173 6 Brazil 1143 7 Portugal 1100 8 Croatia 1091 9 Italy 1082 10 Argentina 1067 11 Denmark 1035 12 Russia 971 13 Chile 970 14 Greece 964 15 France 915 16 Ivory Coast 912 17 Switzerland 898 18 Sweden 891 19 Japan 884 20 3 Bosnia and Herzegovina 867 21 1 Mexico 864 22 Republic of Ireland 851 23 Australia 838 24 Paraguay 795 25 Norway 788

This is sort of an extreme case, because in most months teams play games fairly often and tend to move up and down the rankings quite irregularly, and thus few or no cells can possibly be merged. In my view the practice of merging is: (1) not generally applied for such purposes, both on Wikipedia and off; (2) less intuitive; (3) not contributory to understanding; (4) especially inappropriate when the merging affects just a few cells. I'm reverting the edit for now, and I'm anticipating comments by other users. --Theurgist (talk) 03:38, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Frankly, I'm not that keen on drawing undue levels of attention to minor fluctuations (consider the most recent update: Brazilian football has not suffered any great disaster, but European teams have just had a series of high value matches), and the arrows are garish and ugly. But if they are wanted (and they were introduced without any discussion), then they should be as per the first example above. Kevin McE (talk) 17:32, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

Updates on nft articles

Recently editors have started adding movement data to the team articles when updating these stats each month. I would suggest that minor month to month changes are unlikely to be very notable, but when there is no movement, the reader is confronted with a meaningless turquoise coloured bar. Readers should not be left to guess what on earth such a thing can mean. I suggest that this extra detail on the updates should be discontinued. Kevin McE (talk) 16:47, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

I support this proposal. --John (talk) 20:37, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

If suitable alt text or "hover over" text is provided, then these symbols are just fine. They're are used ubiquitously in business articles to demonstrate an increase or decrease in positioning, likewise in tennis articles on weekly basis when ATP change their rankings. It's far from confusing, but if it is then let's use the tools we have to make it less confusing. I've already asked User:RexxS (who has a clue about ACCESS, which, while not directly pertinent, is useful here) to comment, and in the meantime I don't understand why one user should just wholesale remove all these templates when they actually provide factual information to the general reader. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:55, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Can anyone help?

It usually seems to fall to me to update the Template:FIFA World Ranking leaders displayed on this page each month. This month, although I did nothing other than change the date of the end of the chart as usual, it has refused to display the Spain label at the top of the chart. Has the template reached some sort of maximum length? Kevin McE (talk) 16:47, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

I tested some till dates in preview and the only dates where Spain disappeared were 08/08/2012 and 09/08/2012. I don't know whether they hit some boundary issue in the timeline extension or what but the date is not displayed anyway so I suggest to just change it. PrimeHunter (talk) 18:43, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

I'm glad it's not just me. Thanks for looking. I've displayed it until 7th Aug: the percentage inaccuracy is negligible. I'll flag it up at the pump, and see what happens next month. Kevin McE (talk) 20:41, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

Not sure what you mean. If you are referring to the Spanish flag icon. It's being displayed already.--JOJ ^Hutton 00:00, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

No: it was a glitch in the timeline specific to a couple of dates last month: the top occurrence of Spain's name wouldn't display, compare the link above to the timeline as on the article now. We were able to evade the issue with a marginally inaccurate date last month, and this month it has not arisen. Don't think we ever got to the cause. Kevin McE (talk) 00:08, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Number of entries in the ranking table displayed here

According to current discussion at WT:FOOTY, a list of the top 20 can confidently be assumed to be within allowances if FIFA is likely to be protective of copyright. The table has had headers at various times claiming that having more than 30, and later 25, teams could cause copyright difficulties, although whether any specialist legal knowledge was behind that advice is unclear. At least 20, 25 and 30 have the advantage of being multiples of the number of digits most of us have on each hand: an editor this morning is attempting to add a 26th, which seems a rather random inclusion: the "top 26" is rareley, if ever, sougt after data. I reverted, but in apparent ignorance of, or indifference to, the principles of BRD, he continued.

Suggest reducing to the legally confident top 20: if the upshot of discussion here and at WT:FOOTY is that there should be more than 25/30 on the list, then it seems evident that a full list will be a separate article from this one that deals with the nature and history of the rankings. Kevin McE (talk) 11:43, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

20 sounds good to me. --Dweller (talk) 11:56, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Definitely no more than 10% in a snapshot, which equates to 20. If we want a full table that's fine by me, and it should be advertised via a hatnote at the very top of the article, but it shouldn't be bolted onto the side of the article. —WFC— 12:23, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Map of top 25 countries in FIFA

Apologies for the belated notice on this page. Please visit the discussion here. --Dweller (talk) 13:38, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Ranking Calculations

This article seems inaccurate when showing how the ranking points are achieved for each match. According to the FIFA website, there is no dividing by 100 in any of the ranking calculations. Besides, when multiplied by 100 later in the formula given by whoever wrote this article, it would cancel out anyway. Just thought this should be corrected. See: http://www.fifa.com/worldranking/procedureandschedule/menprocedure/index.html

65.51.94.15 (talk) 18:55, 7 October 2012 (UTC)Maverick

Change of page title in order?

As stated at the begining of this article, it is about Men's teams ranking only. Shouldn't the title reflect that? I would expect a page titled "FIFA World Rankings" to present all of the national teams rankings offered by the FIFA, with links to each of them, including FIFA Women's World Rankings and possibly others (youth?). I am new on wikipedia, so please consider this as an honest question even if you think the answer is obvious :) Racaillou (talk) 13:52, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

The simple reason that this article refers to the men's rankings is that this is the name that FIFA uses for its men's ranking system. FIFA do not refer to the men's rankings as the "FIFA Men's World Rankings", but they do use the name "FIFA Women's World Rankings". – PeeJay 14:37, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Well technically, they use "FIFA/Coca-Cola World Rankings". Is the sponsor's name dropped as per some WP policy on advertisement? On another note, the logo featured on fifa.com and on this page does say "Men's World Ranking" in its title, although it is undoubtly a less legitimate reference than the official name given by the FIFA.Racaillou (talk) 14:57, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

See also WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. There is far more interest in men's football than women's. At the time of writing, FIFA World Rankings got 50671 page views in the last 30 days.[1] FIFA Women's World Rankings got 3711.[2] PrimeHunter (talk) 15:07, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Alright you convinced me. Thanks for having taken the time to answer these, PrimeHunter! Racaillou (talk) 13:47, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

update

There are some changes. [3] 89.172.222.147 (talk) 20:46, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Number of entries

The reasons for only having a snapshot of the top teams include copyright and maintainability. However, having gone through this page's feedback it is clear that a LOT of readers from a LOT of different countries come to this article expecting to find their country's ranking. In my opinion the current solution works well: we have the top 20, with a clearly marked link to the complete list. I'm posting this just in case anyone else has an idea on other ways we can help our readers find what they are looking for. —WFC— _{FL wishlist} 16:12, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Broken link

FYI, reference link #9 goes to a page that no longer exists 108.90.236.29 (talk) 04:56, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

strength of opposition = T ??

Why is strength of Opposition marked with a "T" in the FIFA rankings? I get that "C" is already used for confederation strength, but where does the T come from. I really hoped Wikipedia would have something about the code letters, because I can't find the logic. Unfortunately, the article doesn't seem to use the FIFA code letters at all (maybe because they are confusing?).

I'll make the radical guess that T stands for team strength, exactly as C stands for confederation strength. But given that this page does not use those abbreviations, it is irrelevant to this article. Kevin McE (talk) 11:11, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Monthly updates

Please note that monthly updates to the page are not complete unless the template:FIFA World Ranking leaders is also updated. It is easy enough, especially if the leadership does not change, simply change the end date in the Period field. If there is a change in leadership, copy and paste one of the existing lines and tweak contents as necessary. Kevin McE (talk) 11:11, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Spain points

I've calculated points of Spain and got some differences between my result and actual FIFA ranking points. There could be any other team but I cite the example of Spain because it's first in the June 2014 Ranking.

That's my calculations for Spain:

Date	Opponent (FIFA Ranking on the match day)	Tournament/Friendly	Result	Match points
2011
09/02/2011	Colombia (50)	Friendly	1:0	3*1*150*1 = 450
25/03/2011	Czech Republic (31)	UEFA Euro 2012 qualification	2:1	3*2,5*169*1 = 1267,5
29/03/2011	Lithuania (54)	UEFA Euro 2012 qualification	3:1	3*2,5*146*1 = 1095
04/06/2011	United States (22)	Friendly	4:0	3*1*178*0,88 = 469,92
07/06/2011	Venezuela (68)	Friendly	3:0	3*1*132*1 = 396
10/08/2011	Italy (8)	Friendly	1:2	0*1*192*1 = 0
02/09/2011	Chile (11)	Friendly	3:2	3*1*189*1 = 567
06/09/2011	Liechtenstein (119)	UEFA Euro 2012 qualification	6:0	3*2,5*81*1 = 607,5
07/10/2011	Czech Republic (40)	UEFA Euro 2012 qualification	2:0	3*2,5*160*1 = 1200
11/10/2011	Scotland (52)	UEFA Euro 2012 qualification	3:1	3*2,5*148*1 = 1110
12/11/2011	England (7)	Friendly	0:1	0*1*193*1 = 0
15/11/2011	Costa Rica (62)	Friendly	2:2	1*1*138*0,88 = 121,44
2012
29/02/2012	Venezuela (46)	Friendly	5:0	3*1*154*1 = 462
26/05/2012	Serbia (32)	Friendly	2:0	3*1*168*1 = 504
30/05/2012	South Korea (31)	Friendly	4:1	3*1*169*0,86 = 436,02
03/06/2012	China (64)	Friendly	1:0	3*1*134*0,86 = 345,72
10/06/2012	Italy (12)	UEFA Euro 2012	1:1	1*3*188*1 = 564
14/06/2012	Republic of Ireland (18)	UEFA Euro 2012	4:0	3*3*182*1 = 1638
18/06/2012	Croatia (8)	UEFA Euro 2012	1:0	3*3*192*1 = 1728
23/06/2012	France (14)	UEFA Euro 2012	2:0	3*3*186*1 = 1674
27/06/2012	Portugal (10)	UEFA Euro 2012	0:0 a.e.t. 4:2 PSO	3*2*190*1 = 1140
01/07/2012	Italy (12)	UEFA Euro 2012	4:0	3*3*188*1 = 1692
15/08/2012	Puerto Rico (140)	Friendly	2:1	3*1*60*0,88 = 158,4
07/09/2012	Saudi Arabia (104)	Friendly	5:0	3*1*96*0,86 = 247,68
11/09/2012	Georgia (97)	2014 FIFA World Cup qualification	1:0	3*2,5*103*1 = 772,5
12/10/2012	Belarus (76)	2014 FIFA World Cup qualification	4:0	3*2,5*124*1 = 930
16/10/2012	France (15)	2014 FIFA World Cup qualification	1:1	3*2,5*185*1 = 462,5
14/11/2012	Panama (43)	Friendly	5:1	3*1*157*0,88 = 414,48
2013
06/02/2013	Uruguay (16)	Friendly	3:1	3*1*184*1 = 552
22/03/2013	Finland (85)	2014 FIFA World Cup qualification	1:1	1*2,5*115*1 = 287,5
26/03/2013	France (17)	2014 FIFA World Cup qualification	1:0	3*2,5*183*1 = 1372,5
08/06/2013	Haiti (63)	Friendly	2:1	3*1*137*0,88 = 361,68
11/06/2013	Republic of Ireland (61)	Friendly	2:0	3*1*139*1 = 417
16/06/2013	Uruguay (19)	2013 FIFA Confederations Cup	2:1	3*3*181*1 = 1629
20/06/2013	Tahiti (138)	2013 FIFA Confederations Cup	10:0	3*3*62*0,85 = 474,3
23/06/2013	Nigeria (31)	2013 FIFA Confederations Cup	3:0	3*3*169*0,86 = 1308,06
27/06/2013	Italy (8)	2013 FIFA Confederations Cup	0:0 a.e.t. 7:6 PSO	2*3*192*1 = 1152
30/06/2013	Brazil (22)	2013 FIFA Confederations Cup	0:3	0*3*178*1 = 0
14/08/2013	Ecuador (17)	Friendly	2:0	3*1*183*1 = 549
06/09/2013	Finland (65)	2014 FIFA World Cup qualification	2:0	3*2,5*135*1 = 1012,5
10/09/2013	Chile (21)	Friendly	2:2	1*1*179*1 = 179
11/10/2013	Belarus (80)	2014 FIFA World Cup qualification	2:1	3*2,5*120*1 = 900
15/10/2013	Georgia (97)	2014 FIFA World Cup qualification	2:0	3*2,5*168*1 = 772,5
19/11/2013	South Africa (61)	Friendly	0:1	3*1*168*0,86 = 0
2014
05/03/2014	Italy (8)	Friendly	1:0	3*1*192*1 = 576
30/05/2014	Bolivia (68)	Friendly	2:0	3*1*132*1 = 396
07/06/2014	El Salvador (68)	Friendly	2:0	3*1*132*0,88 = 348,48
13/06/2014	Netherlands (15)	2014 FIFA World Cup	1:5	3*4*185*1 = 0
18/06/2014	Chile (14)	2014 FIFA World Cup	0:2	3*4*186*1 = 0
23/06/2014	Australia (62)	2014 FIFA World Cup	3:0	3*4*138*0,86 = 1424,16

Year	Average	Weight	Avg. weight
2011	596,99	20%	119,4
2012	823,08	30%	246,92
2013	685,44	50%	342,72
2014	457,44	100%	457,44
Total: 1166,48

And now what is on the FIFA website:

Year	Average	Weight	Avg. weight
2011	1094	20%	218,8
2012	485,13	30%	145,54
2013	912,48	50%	456,24
2014	308,42	100%	308,42
Total: 1229

And points for the last 5 matches:

Date	Opponent (FIFA Ranking on the match day)	Tournament/Friendly	Result	Match points
30/05/2014	Bolivia (68)	Friendly	2:0	3*1*132*1 = 396
07/06/2014	El Salvador (68)	Friendly	2:0	3*1*132*0.94 = 372,24
13/06/2014	Netherlands (15)	2014 FIFA World Cup	1:5	3*4*185*1 = 0
18/06/2014	Chile (14)	2014 FIFA World Cup	0:2	3*4*186*1 = 0
23/06/2014	Australia (62)	2014 FIFA World Cup	3:0	3*4*138*0,93= 1540,08

It's said that values for AFC and CONCACAF are 0,86 and 0,88 on the page FIFA/Coca-Cola World Ranking Procedure, respectively. But form the calculation on the FIFA website it follows that values for AFC and CONCACAF are 0,93 and 0,94, respectively.

I would be very grateful if somebody could tell where's my mistake :) Andrey Tsyganov (talk) 03:54, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

With all due respect, your mistake was trying to calculate these figures at all. The only figures that matter are FIFA's, and it's not up to us to question them. – PeeJay 07:44, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

It's the average of the confederation weightings for the teams involved in the match. Thus for a UEFA vs. CONCACAF match it's (1 + 0.88)/2 = 0.94.--Edgar (talk) 07:16, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Time spent at #1

Shouldn't there be a table with the time spent by teams at #1? Nergaal (talk) 20:32, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

I believe this would be a good edition and more clearer than the image placed to the right. Xenomorph1984 (talk) 18:17, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

Totally agree - We need to see which teams have spent the most time at #1 since the life cycle of the world rankings. I've searched FIFA's website and see no easy way to get this historical data. Anyone else know where this information could be garnered - Other that going through every single month on FIFA.com and manually totalling? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Joerow (talk • contribs) 11:36, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

Team of the Year

This source differentiates between Team of the Year and First on FIFA Ranking, but this article does not. Could this be clarified? – Editør (talk) 18:45, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

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Comparison of Elo and FIFA ranking

As of July 14th, the Criticism section of the article contains a table with discrepancies between FIFA and Elo ranking as evidence that the FIFA ranking discriminates against certain confederations. While I agree in principle that the regional-strength factor is discriminatory, the table is inadequate for several reasons: (i) it compares FIFA data before the recent Copa America and Euro with Elo data from after those tournament (e.g., the ranks for USA and Russia were almost equivalent before); (ii) notable exceptions in the other direction are simply ignored (France 17th in FIFA, 4th in Elo, Algeria 32nd in FIFA, 47th in Elo); (iii) the table is unsystematic and reeks of original research. In my humble opinion, the table ought to be removed, it is enough to say that the regional-strength factor causes different teams to obtain different points for the same performances. -- 138.231.127.2 (talk) 00:16, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

My criticism in the FIFA ranking is not the regional-strength factor, given that it exists, but that it doesn't exist in a intra-regional stregth factor, is the same Germany v San Marino than Brazil v Venezuela...the Ranking ELO has a overestimation of the British teams and the fact that all we know that not is the same the Copa América than the Asian Cup or the OFC Cup181.29.116.218 (talk) 18:32, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

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There should be a section/table on number 1 teams

Like there is at World_Football_Elo_Ratings#List_of_number_one_teams. 188.27.39.222 (talk) 21:32, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

Next update?

Any idea when FIFA will get round to publishing a new version? It's 2 months since the last and nearly a month since the World Cup Final. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 13:04, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

@Dweller: According to this official site regarding the ranking procedure, the next FIFA Men's Ranking is scheduled to be published on August 16. Felida97 (talk) 13:44, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 13:52, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

The point between numbers in the importance coefficient

Why it is removed? I also think that it should not be there, but the sources say it is. Like bowser, where did you find the source without that point?--IgorMagic (talk) 17:11, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

This document from FIFA (released in June) shows the match importance without the decimal points. I believe this PDF was the first released by FIFA regarding the new FIFA World Ranking, which suggests decreasing the match importance coefficients by 90% (as shown in the document you added as a source today) might be a recent alteration to the ranking algorithm and not a typo. GazThomas402 (talk) 18:31, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

Now this document linked by FIFA in their article today doesn’t include the decimal points. Looks look it was a typo after all. GazThomas402 (talk) 10:32, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

The detailed calculations

Is there anywhere the detailed calculations of rankings? I tried to calculate points by myself and got the results that slightly differ from those from the FIFA list. I guess the numbers are rounded somewhere, but don't know yet where.--IgorMagic (talk) 05:01, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

It seems I missed some friendlies before the World Cup, now it seems OK.--IgorMagic (talk) 06:31, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

A mistake in the game result weights?

The description of the new calculation method lists the following weights:

• W – the result of the game:
  • 0 – loss after regular or extra time
  • 0.5 – draw or loss in a penalty shootout
  • 0.75 – win in a penalty shootout
  • 1 – win after regular or extra time.

In loss (0+1=1), win (1+0=1), and draw (0.5+0.5=1) outcomes, the W coefficients for opposing teams sum to 1, which means that the opposing teams get/lose the same amount of points. For example, one team gets 7 points, the other loses 7 points. (That’s because W_e coefficients for opposing teams also sum to 1.)

However, in a penalty shootout situation, the winning team gets more points than is lost by the losing team. For example, one team gets 11 points, the other loses 9 points. This means that the total amount of points in the world increases, causing a gradual inflation of the rating points over time.

Shouldn’t the weight corresponding to a loss in a penalty shootout be 0.25, not 0.5?

46.242.13.150 (talk) 13:06, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

Inflation is indeed the case. Even more so, as losses in knock-out matches of final competitions don't subtract points at all. -Koppapa (talk) 16:06, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

Apparently, FIFA forgot to hire a mathematician/statistician to oversee the design of the new ranking system. That’s unfortunate. World Football Elo Ratings do not have this design flaw. I also think that the inclusion of goal difference coefficient in the formula (similar to WFER) would result in more exciting games, as every additional goal would count. Hopefully, FIFA will fix this in the future. 46.242.13.150 (talk) 21:23, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

2019 Schedule

section to be updated according to 2019 schedule.Sumit Singh ^T 06:58, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

Title should be 'FIFA Men's World Rankings'

The title on the official website is Men's Rankings and even the logo says 'Men's World Rankings', the current title is not accurate and doesn't account for the women's rankings, so needs to be changed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.170.112.31 (talk) 21:39, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

211th team

Current FIFA ranking includes 210 teams, compared to the previous version's 211 teams. This is probably because one team got removed due to being inactive for four years. I'm curious, which team is it that hasn't played a competitive match in four years? 89.110.8.225 (talk) 19:12, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

Belgium's no.1 controversy

There has been plenty of controversies surrounding Belgium's no.1 position in the FIFA ranking, especially considering how the Belgians have been incapable to take home at least a major international honour. Should have taken this. 27.79.209.4 (talk) 08:17, 3 November 2021 (UTC)

What are you even talking about? The rankings are based on a point system. JoshuaInWiki (talk) 13:26, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

When the count begins?

What means "P_before – the team's number of points before the game"? All the games before the last? From the first game in the 19th century?--Maxaxa (talk) 09:47, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

@Maxaxax: "points" does not refer to 3/1/0 points for win/draw/loss if that's what confuses you. It's the ranking points the team had right before the game. The ranking points is a decimal number which is recomputed after each match (but only published with longer periods). PrimeHunter (talk) 12:56, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

It is the longer period that confuses me. How long is the period? Maxaxa (talk) 18:14, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

@Maxaxax: "Date" at https://www.fifa.com/fifa-world-ranking/men?dateId=id13792 shows around 7 published rankings per year but it's irrelevant to the computation of ranking pints. They are recomputed after every match. It's exactly as it says: "P_before – the team's number of points before the game". $P=P_{\text{before}}+I(W-W_{e})$ is the formula for the points after the match. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:49, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 December 2022

I want to update the top ten countries in FIFA ranking according to the latest data Dipayan2003 (talk) 17:00, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

The top 10 countries in FIFA ranking is outdated. I want to update the latest rankings which will be helpful to the Wikipedia community Dipayan2003 (talk) 17:02, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

 Not done The current rankings at FIFA match what's in the article. When FIFA publishes new rankings, it will be updated. Mindmatrix 17:25, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, they updated it as of 22 December 2022. Might want to edit that quickly. JoshuaInWiki (talk) 13:43, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Best Mover 2022

MAR/Morocco deserves to be the best mover of 2022 in the Fifa Rating. Benson Mwangi Kirathe (talk) 02:41, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 February 2023

Request:

Please change the dr in the following formula and explanation:

• W_e – the expected result of the game:

$W_{e}={\frac {1}{10^{-{\frac {dr}{600}}}+1}}$

where dr is the difference between two teams' ratings before the game.

To $\Delta$ as:

• W_e – the expected result of the game:

$W_{e}={\frac {1}{10^{-{\frac {\Delta }{600}}}+1}}$

where $\Delta$ is the difference between two teams' ratings before the game.

Reason for request

The dr in the formula denotes a multiplication of d times r, in mathematical terms. Since in this case dr describes the difference between two numbers, $\Delta$ should be the correct notation for the variable.

Citation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_letters_used_in_mathematics,_science,_and_engineering#%CE%94%CE%B4_(delta) FalconTube (talk) 15:59, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

 Not done current formula is pulled verbatim from fifa's official description of the calculation. GiovanniSidwell (talk) 21:49, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

I agree that sticking with the official description is a good idea. However, there seem to be formatting errors in FIFA's document, compare "Pbefore" in https://digitalhub.fifa.com/m/f99da4f73212220/original/edbm045h0udbwkqew35a-pdf.pdf. To still comply with official documentation, I would rephrase my request to use $d_{r}$ instead of $\Delta$. This to me seems like the intended notation. FalconTube (talk) 09:30, 24 February 2023 (UTC)