Talk:Ethiopian Civil War

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Chinese involvement

The first source cited in the infobox regarding Chinese support to the rebels describes Chinese support to Eritrean separatists ending in 1972: "China assisted the ELF with weapons and military training until 1972, when Ethiopian recognition of Beijing as the legitimate Chinese government led to China’s abandonment of the Eritrean struggle." This article covers the conflict from 1974 to 1991.

The second source does not exist and either the title or the year was stated incorrectly. There is no 2009 edition of Chinese and African Perspectives on China in Africa. CentreLeftRight ✉ 01:12, 18 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Infox with "combatants"

I think the "Ethiopian Empire" should not be in the same column as the other factions; more - I am not sure that the Ethipian Empire (and Haile Selassie as a commander) should have a place in the infobox at all; the war was, essentially, after the fall of the empire.--MiguelMadeira (talk) 16:12, 25 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Geography

Ethopian words 41.116.13.108 (talk) 16:01, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

English

New words 41.116.13.108 (talk) 16:02, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Image Description

The Skull image description could have meant to be "Skull and remains ... " rather than "Skull remain ... ?" SquashEngineer (talk) 12:55, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Criticism

I remember trying to develop this article years ago, but was handicapped by the lack of a narrative that covers the entire period, from 1974 to 1993. Many books I found (such as the Ottaways, Ethiopia: Empire in Revolution or Lefort, Ethiopia, a Heretical Revolution) stopped shortly after the Red Terror; Gebre Tareke's The Ethiopian Revolution provides descriptions of some of the military events of this period, but because of his interests he focuses on (1) the Ogaden War, (2) the Eritrean War of Liberation, & (3) the final battles of the TPLF (or EPRLF by this point) against the Derg; general histories, such as Bahru Zewde's or Paul Henze's, tend to present this period as "first Haile Selassie was deposed, then the Derg took power & had the Red Terror, then there was a famine, then the EPRLF emerged from the mountains & defeated the Derg". In other words, there's a gap between the point where the Derg are at the apex of their power & the TPLF is a struggling resistance movement in the mountains of Tigray, & the point where the TPLF has grown to where they are engaging in stand-up battles with the Derg military.

It was only a week ago that I obtained a copy of John Young's Peasant Revolution in Ethiopia, which provides something of a link between the two points. Had I known about that book back then, I could have achieved the improvement I wanted. One may believe his analysis is too unbalanced (& IMHO he focuses too much on Tigray -- although that was the subject of his research), nevertheless he provides the missing narrative that prevented me from developing a coherent article back when. Maybe with that book -- augmented with those I've mentioned -- this article can be put into good shape. -- llywrch (talk) 22:45, 2 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Merge proposal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of this discussion was no merge. TRL (talk) 02:13, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

propose merging Fall of the Derg into Ethiopian Civil War. The former article contains critical (and sourced) information that should really be here anyway. The Fall of the Derg article isn't just about the fall itself, has a full timeline from of events from 1974–1991, background information, etc., it's essentially the same topic. XTheBedrockX (talk) 16:09, 5 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Smahwk (talk) 11:08, 6 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Reasoning? XTheBedrockX (talk) 17:00, 6 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There should be an article about the fall of the Derg itself,like the Fall of Kabul Smahwk (talk) 03:13, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Fair, but this article still needs more citations. I'm okay with the Fall of the Derg article being around, but I'm still in favour of moving or copying some of the info over there to over here. XTheBedrockX (talk) 21:15, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose: The fall can be expanded to the event of the defeat of the Derg in May 1991 by EPRDF and it is not advisable to be merged to this article because this article itself has too long to navigate/read comfortably. In case of this, the fall should be summarized into a single article. 197.156.107.207 (talk) 14:01, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

? But it's not tagged as "too long"? Ethiopian Civil War is tagged as "needs additional citations for verification". That's very different and was not at all this article's main issue. XTheBedrockX (talk) 21:13, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Simply, the fall of Derg should summarize the Derg defeat in 1991. You can expand it by adding events of the fall; there are also sourceful information about it in scholar and academic references. The civil war should summarize the event between 1974 and 1991, the fall of the Derg can be concised into appropriate section within the Ethiopian Civil War. The Fall of the Derg should be equivalent to Dissolution of the Soviet Union as significant article because it has national holiday that commemorates the defeat in Ethiopia celebrated on May 28. 197.156.95.74 (talk) 10:29, 8 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Months old, but Support merger into the Ethiopian Civil War- they are the same topic.

If information on the fall of the 1991 campaign leading to the fall of Addis Ababa is enough to warrant an article on its own, then make such an article, probably named Fall of Addis Ababa rather than Fall of the Derg, in my opinion. - presidentofyes, the super aussa man 19:25, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: The texts detail about the leading events surrounding the civil war engagements from 1974 to 1991, not specifically about the event of the Derg's fall in 1991. But I think instead of merging, as presidentofyes noted, it should be titled to Fall of Addis Ababa and the detail text should be rendered that talks about a "standalone final battle in Addis Ababa" during the Derg fall process. AsteriodX (talk) 08:37, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Readability on the Ethiopian Civil War summary

The Ethiopian Civil War lasted from September 12, 1974 to May 28, 1991, taking place in present-day Ethiopia and Eritrea. It was a conflict between the Ethiopian military junta, the Derg, and anti-government Ethiopian-Eritrean rebels. Allblessed11 (talk) 00:46, 18 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]