Talk:Eric Anthony Abrahams

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Vaticidalprophet (talk) 06:38, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that Eric Anthony Abrahams was the first black TV reporter at the BBC?
  • ALT1:... that when Eric Anthony Abrahams became Jamaica's director of tourism in 1970, he was the youngest person ever to hold the role?

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Carl Craig (politician), State Auditor of Mississippi, Carl C. White
• Comment: QPQ is 2/3

Created by Eddie891 (talk). Self-nominated at 01:47, 12 April 2021 (UTC).

• Hi Eddie891, nice article, I added a tidbit from a BBC report on early black presenters that I remembered reading a while back. I've also decapitalised "Black" in the article and hook; we don't capitalise it in my experience of British English, at least: feel free to revert if it is in Jamaican English.

Review follows: article moved to mainspace 11 April; article exceeds minimum length and is cited inline throughout to reliable sources; I didn't pick up any issues with overly close paraphrasing; both hooks are interesting (I probably prefer ALT0 slightly), mentioned in the article and check out to the sources cited; a QPQ has been provided - Dumelow (talk) 09:38, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Eric Anthony Abrahams/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Wasted Time R (talk · contribs) 10:13, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

I will be reviewing this nomination. Wasted Time R (talk) 10:13, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

   See specific prose and MoS items below

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

   See specific sourcing items below

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

   See missing coverage relating to politics, libel suit, and radio below

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

   Generally okay but some see concerns below relating to violence and allegations of corruption

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Re 1a:

The infobox has him in the Senate 1977–1978 but the article text has him resigning from it in 1977.

fixed

Lede has Minister of Tourism and Communication from 1980 to 1985, but infobox and article text say Minister of Tourism and Minister of Information. These need to be reconciled - did he hold one minister position or two, and what was the name(s)?

clarified

TV reporter in both lede and body – this a little too informal, I think you should use 'television reporter' instead.

I disagree, virtually all the sourcing uses "TV reporter"

Abrahams graduated in 1961 with a Bachelor of Arts from the University of London. – is this a reference to his shifting his studies to London geographically, or just that the University of the West Indies was part of the University of London?

He got the degree at the University of the West Indies

He became a Rhodes Scholar and was eventually admitted to ... – Needs elaboration – 'became' is too passive and what was the 'eventually' about?

I don't have the book on me at the moment, but I remember something about him struggling to get into a college

there was "no chance" he could finish a degree in three years. – did he graduate, and if so, when? This section does not make it clear.

It's not clear from the sourcing, I can look further into this

was "gated" in his apartment – this could include a link to the Gating (punishment) article.

added

From 1970 to 1974 Abrahams directed the Private Sector Organization of Jamaica., From 1970 to 1976 he was Executive Director of the Private Sector Organisation of Jamaica. – nearly identical material in two different paragraphs. The dates and exact title need to be reconciled and the second instance should be removed since it is out of place there.

Sources offer conflicting information, which I have resolved with a third source

tourist arrivals rose 40.4% and "foreign travel receipts" 55.5%, – This is better as 'percent' not '%', and the numbers can be rounded off to 40 and 56 to avoid excessive precision.

Fine

Abrahams was also a politician representing Eastern Portland. – the text should make clear that East Portland is a parliamentary constituency (the infobox says this but the reader may have missed it).

done

In September 1976, Abrahams ran for parliament as a member of the Jamaica Labour Party. – this needs a link, was it for the House of Representatives? The text implies, but does not state, that he lost. If so, by how much? Who did he run against?

will look into this

In 1977 he was elected to a one year term as a member of the Jamaican Senate. – according the WP article on it, members of the Senate are appointed not elected. And I don't see 'elected' in either of the two sources for this statement.

amended

In 1980 he was made minister of the Jamaica Labour Party and was elected to Jamaican Parliament, – I don't understand what 'minister' refers to here. Usually in parliamentary systems you have to be elected to the parliament first and then you can be named a minister (or shadow minister) of something. Also, who did he run against and what was his margin of victory?

I can only report what the sourcing offers, though I can look for more

described the change as – what change? what was it recovering from?

clarified

Prime Minister Edward Seaga removed Abrahams from the post after a disagreement – disagreement over what?

I'd love o clarify

and Abrahams left the party. – did he join another party, or did he become unaffiliated? If Abrahams remain in parliament until 1989, with whom was he associated while there?

Independent

In 2000, the amount was lowered by the Court of Appeals to J$35 million. – was this amount actaully paid to him at some point? It might be useful to show what these amounts were worth in either USD or GBP given exchange rates at the time, for those not familiar with JMD.

The show first aired on KLAS Radio – the wording implies it later shifted to a different station, what was it?

The intent was not to imply that

He had two children and six grandchildren at the time of his death. – the reader will wonder about the mother(s) of the children. Per fn 6 (second page), he was divorced sometime before 1981.

then-Prime Minister of Jamaica]] – the 'then' is unnecessary, as it is always assumed in historical writing that positions are as of the time the narrative is portraying not as of the time that the reader is reading.

done

Re 1b:

was a Jamaican public servant. – this seems a little limiting; I think the first sentence should also mention that he was a broadcaster.

Fine

The lede should mention his affiliation with the Jamaica Labour Party since party identification is very important in Jamaica.

Done

The "Early career" section goes to age 42 and includes his having been in parliament and a government minister. It seems to me that some of this material should be put into a new "Mid-career" or "Political career" section.

Done

Re 2a:

fn 8 – what is J.B.N.? I belive this is actually J.D.N., i.e. Jamaica Daily News, same as fn 18.

Yeah, I think so too

fn 17 links the newspaper name, but none of the other cites link the newpaper/broadcaster/publisher. I agree with not linking them in general, so I would remove the link here.

Removed

fn 19's title should be rendered out of all-uppercase and it should be made clear that it is a press release.

Done the first part, how would I go about clarifying?

Re 2b:

I think the sourcing on the article could be a little broader. Much of the article is sourced to the National Library of Jamaica's biography of Abrahams and a set of newspaper clips linked to from that biography. There's nothing wrong with those sources, but they all come from one curator's perspective on the subject. Other sources should be used as well. Below you can see me making use of the New York Times archive and Proquest. Unfortunately my Newspapers.com account is currently waiting on a renewal so I couldn't look there and my Gale account isn't behaving like it is supposed to. And of course there are any number of other sources out there as well.

Re 3a and 4:

Abrahams' whole political career goes by in one cramped paragraph. There is a lot more that could be included. What was it about the Jamaica Labour Party's belief in markets and individual responsibility that appealed to Abrahams? Did he subscribe to all of the party's positions or did he take exception to some of them? How did he feel about various social issues?

Another aspect of Jamaican politics is colorism, as indicated by the 1988 New York Times article mentioned below. It might be interesting to state where Abrahams fit into this, if any sources speak to it.

I couldn't find much on it, unfortunately

What did Abrahams do during his brief time in the Senate? More importantly, what did he do during his longer time in the House of Representatives? What crucial votes did he take? What influence did he have on the government's overall policies and direction? (some ministers have influence and power beyond their immediate portfolio).

Per a later journal article, Abrahams certainly seems to have been involved in Jamaica's decision to participate in the invasion of Grenada in 1983, see Lewis, Patsy. "A Response to Edward Seaga's "The Grenada Intervention: The Inside Story"." Social and Economic Studies 62, no. 3/4 (2013): 83-111. Accessed July 18, 2021. http://www.jstor.org/stable/24384482.

Used a similar but better source

One example of an action he took was, despite having worked in the media business, not to try to save the state-owned Jamaica Daily News, saying the government "had always maintained that it had no business in the commercial newspaper business." See "Jamaica Refuses to Rescue Paper." 1983.The Globe and Mail, Apr 28. https://www-proquest-com.wikipedialibrary.idm.oclc.org/newspapers/jamaica-refuses-rescue-paper/docview/386626589/se-2?accountid=196403.

That doesn't really merit a mention imo because it isn't his stance, it's the stance of the government

What other stances/actions did he take as minister of tourism?

Added some

Somewhat oddly, the article has much more coverage of his earlier stint as director of tourism than it does his later stint in the presumably more powerful ministerial post. This New York Times story from 1984 talks about the rebound in tourism under Seaga compared to the Manley years and talks about the Seaga government wanting to introduce casinos. Abrahams is quoted giving a middle-stance on the issue of whether Jamaicans themselves would be allowed into those casinos or whether they would be just for foreigners.

I don't think this is relevant to his article as it barely mentions Abrahams-- if we included every quote he gave the article would be excessively long

Another take on his accomplishments comes from an obituary/tribute in New York Amsterdam News, which has a few more details here and there (although it isn't always clear which time period they correspond to). See Springer, Bevan. 2011. "Jamaica's Tony Abrahams Remembered." New York Amsterdam News, Aug, 14. https://www-proquest-com.wikipedialibrary.idm.oclc.org/newspapers/jamaicas-tony-abrahams-remembered/docview/900578551/se-2?accountid=196403.

As mentioned above, more needs to be said about the split between Abrahams and Seaga and Abrahams' leaving the JLP. This New York Times Magazine piece from 1988 has a quote from Abrahams regarding Seaga: "He is a hardworking man, but he doesn't seem to be overly endowed with the milk of human kindness." That seems worth including in the article.

Why? What does it say about Abrahams that isn't already known?

But there must be more there out there.

Added what I could find

What was Abrahams doing after he left Parliament and before he started his radio show? Per this 1997 court document, he was trying to set up a consulting business (which he said was wrecked by the bribery allegations against him).

Looks like a lot of his time was wrapped up in lawsuits. It was also only three years -- radio shows presumably take time to set up. We need secondary sources if we're gonna say more.

An elephant in this particular room is that Abrahams' political career coincided with the era of Jamaican political conflict breaking out into violence. Per this New York Times story from 1989, Abrahams carried around a briefcase with a gun in it, to protect himself during that time.

While that's a great anecdote, unfortunately there's no indication in the source that this was more than a one-time occurrence

On second thought added

Moreover, per this New York Times story from 1999, the murder of an elderly woman who had been a respected figure in Jamaican politics caused a lot of soul-searching among Jamaicans and some ruminations about past sins on the Beverly Manley–Abrahams radio show. Abrahams said that he would be to talk about what he knew if he were given immunity from prosecution ... which sure makes it sound like his hands weren't too clean. There's also a quote from him, "We were part of the process. We are part of a failed state and as such we failed the country. With all the opportunity I had, I just slipped into the political system without really bucking it." As mea culpas go, that sounds a little convenient to me.

Added what I could find

The discussion in the "Libel suit" is missing a lot. As can be seen from this Los Angeles Times story from 1989, in that year a U.S. federal grand jury indictment was handed down against the Young & Rubicam ad agency and various individuals, including Abrahams and an advistor to Abrahams, in an alleged $900,000 bribery scheme to win a Jamaica Tourist Board account in 1981, soon after the Seaga government took over. Per this New York Times story in 1990, Y & R pleaded guilty to one charge in the case, but the U.S. prosecutor acknowledged that in this matter the two Jamaicans charged could not be extradicted to the U.S. and had not been charged under Jamaican law. By the time of this New York Times piece from 1991, the charges against the two Jamaicans had been dropped and Abrahams was filing a $10 million suit in U.S. federal court against Y&R for negligence, unfair trade practices, libel and slander. Then as described in this Hartford Courant story from 1994, the two Jamaican newspapers sued the Associated Press to get the transcript of the grand jury proceedings. This was also tangled in an action that Abrahams had against author Robin Moore, that got dismissed because Abrahams was unwilling to come to the U.S. to give a deposition. The Courant piece also points out that libel actions were easier to win in Jamaica than in the U.S., which is probably worth pointing out in the article. In any case, the 1997 court document I mentioned above seems to show the end of the line for his suit against Y&R.

Added context, we need secondary sources not court documents for sourcing.

In sum, I feel this article is missing a lot that it needs to include in order to be at the GA level. Also the writing is a bit haphazard in places and the article contradicts itself with regarding to a few dates and names of positions (yes, it can be no easy matter to resolve such things). I realize that you are an experienced editor with many FA/GA/DYK credits and that you are an admin. But I have to review what is in front of me. This article was certainly okay for DYK but unfortunately I don't think it was ready for GA and will need considerable research and writing work to get to that point. So I believe this nomination has to be a fail. Wasted Time R (talk) 23:08, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

Wasted Time R, I'm not done yet, but what do you think of how the article is now looking? Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 13:13, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

I'm now pretty confident this is reasonably comprehensive with no major omissions to meet 3b. That's not to say there is nothing else that could be added, but it's decent, which is what the GA criteria look for. It also has a much wider variety of sources that should more or less bring it to meeting crit 2 Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 14:30, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

@Eddie891: I think that the article you have created now is the article that you should have created before nominating it for GA. I know your initial edit summary comment here said "I would have appreciated time to respond to these rather than a fail," but the truth is that I felt that the nominated article reflected no effort towards bringing it to a GA level and my action was in response to that. Now you have gone through that effort, not just to respond to my points but to expand a number of other aspects of the article as well. So you should definitely nominate it again and a new reviewer will bring their perspective to it. Wasted Time R (talk) 00:34, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

Fair enough, thanks for catalyzing the improvement Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 01:03, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Eric Anthony Abrahams/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: The Rambling Man (talk · contribs) 20:31, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

Comments

• Four para lead seems excessive in an article of this size, per MOS:LEAD.

• I mean, yes it is but I'm just not sure exactly what to cut... Thoughts?

• "Oxford Abrhams was" typo, and comma after Oxford...

• Fixed both

• There's a link for List of presidents of the Oxford Union.

• Linked

• The lead seems to have a lead. The first para seems to be summarising the next three paras...

• I don't think it's uncommon to have the first paragraph give a brief outline of the most notable things a person did and allude to them again in the next two paragraphs.. It's what I did in my FA Fabian Ware, for instance. Is there something you'd specifically cut?

• Is it "director of tourism" or "Director of Toruism"

• de-capped and de-capped Minister of Tourism too.

• "member of the Jamaican Senate (1977) and ... elected to the Jamaican Parliament in 1980, " the Jamaican Senate was part of the Jamaican Parliament??

• house of reps

• "officially for "personal reasons", though the actual reason is unclear. " why speculate here?

• several newspapers have speculated similarly, speculation that has made it into secondary sources such as Bryan 2011

• "against the Gleaner Company, and" overlinked.

• fixed

• "English at the University of the West Indies beginning in 1958. Abrahams graduated in 1961 with a Bachelor of Arts from the University of London." odd transition from UWI to UL, explain?

• added explanatory footnote

• "Illness rendered him unable" what illness?

• Specified

• "and a mediocre student. He was a Rhodes Scholar " these two sentences seem incompatible.

• Yes, they do, but it's what sources such as tuck say...

• Looking into this, based on the selection criteria that were being used when Abrahams was a student, his mediocre academics would likely have been more than made up for by his student leadership, athletics.

• "Oxford,[5][3][6][7] where" four citations (out of order) for one fact?

• Ordered, but the four citations are for the preceding five sentences -- some might still be removable

• "caused him trouble in admission," what does that mean?

• clarified

• "St. Peter's" no full stop in St

• removed

• "debating society, beginning debates" repetitive, and the Oxford Union began debates a lot earlier... I get what you're saying, but rephrase.

• better?

• "elected president" should be explicit and note that presidents of the union served a single-term term.

• added

• "Around 1964 he gave a speaking tour across the Middle East" how did he do that as a student??

• Unfortunately, Tuck gives no more detail, but I wonder if it was connected to the student conference he attended... Of course those dates don't line up, but I just don't know.

• "got the BBC to provide funding" -> "secured funding from the BBC"

• sure

• "speakers[12] like Malcolm X, who" speakers including Malcolm X, who.... [12]"

• done

• "Ambassador of South Africa to the United Kingdom" link? And who was that?
• "worked at the BBC, in " overlnked.

• cut

• "a coup in Ghana" link?

• linked (it's just a redirect atm)

• "interviewing François Duvalier in Haiti" context?

• Sources don't specify

• "London.[16][3][6] Abrahams" ref order.

• done

• "director of tourism" capitalised or not?

• standardized to not

Halfway through the "Political career" section, plenty to be getting on with here. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 20:46, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for comments to date, replied to some-- requested some pages to Tuck for others-- I had it but my access expired Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 13:03, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

Thanks The Rambling Man, the above should be handled, with a few questions. I'm not particularly good at writing leads, so sorry for my ineptitude there... Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 12:12, 11 September 2021 (UTC)