Talk:Ellen Pao/Archive 1

Archive 1

Notability

How does this article pass the notability test? All the article lists is her education history and a firm she worked for. Wikipedia's isn't for resumes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.194.163.74 (talk) 17:44, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

And more...

Sorry if these are duplicates, I intend to spend some time on this article, expanding it with these sources... --Scalhotrod (Talk) ☮ღ☺ 22:10, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

http://www.wired.com/2015/02/ellen-paos-lawyer-says-performance-reviews-changed-kleiner-lawsuit/

http://recode.net/2015/02/27/a-performance-review-that-changed-dramatically-and-paos-400000-severance-package-pao-v-kleiner-perkins-trial/

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2015/02/27/tech-podcast-ellen-pao-kleiner-perkins/24148265/

Thanks for adding sources. BTW I started ordering them alphabetically because there are so many (bliss :-) Ottawahitech (talk) 02:17, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Low importance rating in WiikiProjects?

Please see Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Business#Ellen_Pao_discrimination_lawsuit_and_business Ottawahitech (talk) 05:00, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Hey Ottawahitech, I'm not disputing that this is an important case, but its hard to know its full relevance and impact until its concluded at the very least. Maybe we should just take the "importance rating" out for now? --Scalhotrod (Talk) ☮ღ☺ 17:30, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Hey Scalhotrod I am afraid my knowledge of how to rate articles is pretty minimal. I suspect your suggestion should be discussed by the wikiproject members Ottawahitech (talk) 00:27, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Week 1: the live blogger and the note taker

Liz Gannes and Nellie Bowles of Re/code:

• "Five Key Points in the Kleiner Perkins Defense of the Ellen Pao Case" February 18, 2015
• "What’s at Stake in the Ellen Pao Case" February 18, 2015
• "Venture Capitalist Trae Vassallo to Testify She Was Harassed by Same Partner as Ellen Pao" February 24, 2015
• "VCs in Bathrobes, Women Asked to Play Secretary, Angry Texts: Day One of Pao v. Kleiner Perkins" February 24, 2015
• "All-Male Ski Trip and No Women at Al Gore Dinner: Kleiner’s Chien Takes the Stand in Pao Lawsuit" February 25, 2015
• "Tech Startups in the Ellen Pao Trial: Z-A-A-R-L-Y, Z-U-O-R-A and T-U-M-B-L-R" February 26, 2015
• "Follow the Money: Did Men Earn Quintuple What Women Made at Kleiner Perkins" February 26, 2015
  • "(to add to the confusion, Kleiner has shifted around its titles, and some of these partners are also called general partners)" User:Fred Bauder Talk 22:22, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
• "The CEO of Reddit Is Also on Trial — On Reddit" February 27, 2015
• "Performance Review Rewrites and Pao’s ‘Genetic Makeup’: Pao vs. Kleiner Perkins Trial Day 4" February 27, 2015
• "Saint John to Take the Stand: Kleiner Perkins Leader John Doerr to Testify in Pao Case" March 2, 2015
• "Revelations About Mary Meeker and Questions From the Jury in Pao/Kleiner Perkins Trial" March 2, 2015
• "Kleiner Perkins’ John Doerr Takes the Stand in Pao Case: Liveblog" March 3, 2015
• "Not Too Many Wins for Famed VC John Doerr in First Half of Testimony" March 3, 2015
• "John Doerr Testifies in Pao vs. Kleiner Perkins: Day Two Liveblog" March 4, 2015
  • "Can you clarify the differences between the partnership titles? Doerr basically says, and I’m really paraphrasing here: Decisions about whether to invest or not are made by general partners. Managing members are the people who control the firm. Pao is suing the firm, not the fund."
• "A Star Witness for Both Sides? Somehow John Doerr Makes Both Ellen Pao and Kleiner Perkins Look Good." March 4, 2015
• "Women Outperformed Men and A ‘Sexual Predator’ Was On the Loose: Kleiner Perkins’ Investigator Opens Up" March 6, 2015

Partner?

"Partner" seems to be used at Kleiner Perkins in about the way "associate" is used at Walmart. But it may be a partnership… User:Fred Bauder Talk 16:51, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

LLC, whatever that is. User:Fred Bauder Talk 07:20, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Limited liability company User:Fred Bauder Talk 07:21, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

The firm's operating agreement has details. User:Fred Bauder Talk 07:28, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Problem with ref not supporting text

I tried to rephrase the Career section but I cannot find support in the inline ref for the following sentence : At her request she became a junior investing partner in 2010[9] with Ted Schlein as her boss but was passed over for a senior partner position.[6]

Anyone? Ottawahitech (talk) 21:32, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Worked on it by using according to language. Source 6 is no good for this. Exact source for Ted Schlien being her boss is needed. No source actually needed for being passed over for senior partner but many of the cited sources would serve. User:Fred Bauder Talk 13:47, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

The same reference used 10 times in the article

The page refers to reference #6 10 times in the inline citations. Is this justified? Ottawahitech (talk) 21:00, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Adam Lashinsky is a pretty good journalist known for his in-depth coverage of a subject. It's not surprising that a piece on which he is lead author is a rich reference. TJRC (talk) 21:39, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

I think there may be two Fortune articles using the same ref name. Need to be disambiguated. User:Fred Bauder Talk 13:51, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

@TJRC: But, [6] is used as an in-line citation when there is nothing in the article about the topic (see preceding comment). Ottawahitech (talk) 02:41, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Correct. Removed. User:Fred Bauder Talk 13:49, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

I was only responding to the question here, of whether it's appropriate to use a particular reference that many times. TJRC (talk) 22:25, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Week 2: the live blogger and the note taker

Liz Gannes and Nellie Bowles of Re/code:

• http://recode.net/tag/pao-trial/
• "Let’s Talk About What the Ellen Pao Case Really Means" March 9, 2015
• "Liveblog: As Ellen Pao Takes the Stand, the Test Now Is Likability" March 9, 2015
• "Liveblog: Day Two of Ellen Pao on the Stand" March 10, 2015
  • "At this time, she was moving from her longtime role on John Doerr’s team to be a full-time investor." "Pao’s new boss was Ted Schlein, the senior partner on the Kleiner Perkins digital team" User:Fred Bauder Talk 17:09, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
• "Ellen Pao: ‘I Wanted to Make Sure My Story Was Told’" March 10, 2015
• "Liveblog: Day Three of Ellen Pao on the Stand" March 11, 2015
• "Kleiner Wants to Introduce Financial Motive in Pao Suit" March 11, 2015
• "An Alternate Narrative of Ellen Pao Emerges Under Cross-Examination" March 11, 2015
  • “You know he wrote the song ‘Hallelujah?’”
  • Pao said: “I didn’t know that.”
  • “Take my word for it on that one,” Hermle said. User:Fred Bauder Talk 16:02, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
• "Liveblog: Day Four of Ellen Pao on the Stand" March 12, 2015
• "Kleiner Perkins Can’t Talk About Ellen Pao’s Husband and His Finances, Judge Rules" March 12, 2015
• "Kleiner Perkins Wrote an Employment Policy After Female Partner Complaints" March 12, 2015
• "Liveblog: Ellen Pao Answers Questions From the Jury" March 13, 2015

Other media

• "Kleiner Perkins Portrays Ellen Pao as Combative and Resentful in Sex Bias Trial" New York Times March 11, 2015
• "The Ellen Pao Trial: What Do We Mean By “Discrimination”? Vauhini Vara New Yorker March 14, 2015
  • "Yet some legal experts argue that the doctrine guiding many legal decisions about discrimination still hasn’t caught up with the realities of workplace gender relations; they refer to “second-generation discrimination” that is influenced by subtle, even unconscious, biases against women. The existence of such discrimination can be hard to prove to judges and juries, who typically require that plaintiffs prove that an employer had the intent to discriminate. Melissa Hart, a law professor at the University of Colorado at Boulder, said that there appear to be more complaints these days “involving challenges to subtle structural problems in the workplace.” Will the jury instructions in this case require intent? User:Fred Bauder Talk 17:53, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
  • "Some scholars have argued in favor of more nuanced instructions—for instance, allowing an incident to be defined as discrimination even if the people involved didn’t realize they were discriminating, or allowing that discrimination might have affected an H.R. decision even if other non-discriminatory factors also played a role." User:Fred Bauder Talk 18:00, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
• "A Re/code Timeline: The Ellen Pao vs. Kleiner Perkins Trial" Noah Kulwin, Re/code March 13, 2015
• "Venture Capital’s Boys’ Club on Trial" MARCH 17, 2015
• "Kleiner Case Judge Allows Ellen Pao’s Bid for Punitive Damages to Stand" March 21, 2015
• "A Who’s Who of the Kleiner Perkins-Ellen Pao Trial" By Noah Kulwin March 23, 2015

Sources for middle initial "K"

Not sure where to put these so:

• http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/26/nyregion/26dakota.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 "Despite becoming president, Mr. Fletcher began to spend more of his time in California, with Ellen K. Pao, a Bay Area venture capitalist he met at a conference and married in 2007."
• http://www.aspeninstitute.org/leadership-programs/henry-crown-fellowship-program/lists-fellows/2007-class "Ellen K. Pao, Senior Vice President, Strategic Partnerships and Business Development, reddit, Inc., San Francisco, CA."
• http://www.martindale.com/Ellen-K-Pao/651640-lawyer.htm "Ellen K. Pao Lawyer Profile"
• http://www.avvo.com/attorneys/07040-nj-ellen-pao-931384.html "Ellen K. Pao" 12.180.133.18 (talk) 20:42, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Please see Help:Footnotes User:Fred Bauder Talk 22:29, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Week three Re/code bloggers

Liz Gannes and Nellie Bowles of Re/code:

• http://recode.net/tag/pao-trial/
• "The Most Dangerous Meme in the Pao/Kleiner Trial: ‘Now, No One Will Hire Women’" March 16, 2015
• "Expert Slams Kleiner Perkins’ Investigation Into Pao’s Allegations" March 16, 2015
• "Liveblog: Mary Meeker Testifies in Pao/Kleiner Perkins Case" March 16, 2015
• "At Kleiner Perkins Trial, Randy Komisar Accuses Ellen Pao of ‘Politicking’" March 17, 2015
• "Judge Says Pao Needs to Do Better to Prove Case for Punitive Damages" March 17, 2015
  • “What evidence is there of malice, fraud or oppression (the standard for punitive damages in California law) by someone at Kleiner Perkins?” Kahn asked. User:Fred Bauder Talk 20:58, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
• "How Kleiner Perkins’ Matt Murphy Fired Ellen Pao" March 18, 2015
• "Kleiner’s Matt Murphy on Why Pao Failed as a VC" March 19, 2015
• "Kleiner Perkins Has Best Record on Women, Testifies Harvard Professor" March 19, 2015

Does she have a Chinese name?

My guess is she also has a Chinese name with Chinese characters. If so it should be in the artivle. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.195.108.189 (talk) 01:26, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

Yes, it would be nice to have her Chinese name. I tried to search for her using the five names of Chinese newspapers mentioned in the USAtoday article , but nothing turned up on ggogle. Just wondering if there are Chinese editors who can help? Ottawahitech (talk) 01:42, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

If she does, and it is notable, it will be published in a reliable source; that is how we define notability. Otherwise, please let it go; she is an American. User:Fred Bauder Talk 10:13, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

She used some name during her business trips to China, What is that? User:Fred Bauder Talk 10:14, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

More views on Buddy's than on Ellen's wiki-page?

Just an interesting tidbit:

Page view statistics shows 12,000 wiki-views for Ellen Pao's page on March 17, 2015, and more than double that for husband's page. Ottawahitech (talk) 22:56, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

Aileen Lee Nominated for deletion

The wiki-article about Aileen Lee, the KPCB partner who was one of the witnesses at the Ellen Pao gender discrimination trial, and one who in 2006 founded a company that went public in 2013 and is now traded on the NASDAQ stock exchange, has been nominated for deletion : "...about a businesswomen who lacks any real n notability. No significant award or achievements" Ottawahitech (talk) 00:15, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

Verdict is in?

http://recode.net/2015/03/27/the-pao-v-kleiner-perkins-verdict-is-in/

http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/ellen-pao-jury-reaches-verdict/ Ottawahitech (talk) 20:17, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Using New York Times as a reference

It appears that the New York Times is providing access to their articles if you find them via google, but not if you click a link through Wikipedia (they ask for subscription). Am I right? Ottawahitech (talk) 00:13, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

If you can't view a New York Times article, clear your cookies and history and try again. They let you see something like 10 articles per month without paying so I'm assuming you've clicked on more than 10 articles this month. http://observer.com/2015/01/heres-how-to-get-around-the-paywalls-of-the-new-york-times-wall-street-journal-and-more/ http://www.labnol.org/internet/nyt-paywall/18992/ 12.180.133.18 (talk) 00:31, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

Moving the gender discrimination lawsuit material into its own article?

The section about the lawsuit now far exceeds the rest of this page by size. Should it be moved to its own article? Ottawahitech (talk) 03:48, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Please wait at least until the trial court verdict. My feeling is that this is a fizzle, but time will tell if it is of historical importance. User:Fred Bauder Talk 16:39, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Now the case is over, I strongly agree that most of this content should be either split out into a separate article, or removed entirely. It's clearly far too much information about one trial for a biography of Ellen Pao. The question is whether a separate article on the lawsuit would pass the notability test; I'm not sure it would, so perhaps the content should just be removed outright. Robofish (talk) 00:53, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

Remove the information completely? Are you jesting? Ottawahitech (talk) 01:01, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, that may be a bit excessive. Instead I've been bold and split out the lawsuit content into Ellen Pao gender discrimination lawsuit. Anyone who wants to take that article to AFD can do so. Robofish (talk) 01:04, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

Trial - where are the editors?

There is tons of coverage in reliable sources -- where are Wikipedia's editors:

APR 10

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2015-03-30/news/60644214_1_software-engineer-tinder-ellen-pao

Lawsuits like Ellen Pao's, no matter the result, encourage other claims

http://fortune.com/2015/04/08/silicon-valley-pao-effect/

Silicon Valley attorneys: Already seeing a 'Pao effect’

http://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2015/04/08/why-ellen-paos-no-negotiation-gambit-will-be-good-for-women-and-everybody-else/

This question originally appeared on Quora: Will reddit’s recent decision to eliminate compensation negotiation for new hires have the intended effect? Why or why not?

http://www.salon.com/2015/04/06/theres_no_way_to_win_ellen_pao_shakes_up_reddit_by_eliminating_salary_negotiation_in_hiring/

eliminating salary negotiation in hiring

http://news.slashdot.org/story/15/04/08/1937227/reddit-ceo-ellen-pao-bans-salary-negotiations-to-equalize-pay-for-men-women

Reddit CEO Ellen Pao Bans Salary Negotiations To Equalize Pay For Men, Women

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/womens-blog/2015/apr/10/thank-you-ellen-pao-for-teaching-more-people-about-sexism-in-the-workplace

in the UK, sex discrimination claims have plummeted by 80% since the introduction of up to £1200 tribunal fees in 2013.

http://www.theverge.com/2015/3/3/8141053/ellen-pao-kleiner-perkins-venture-capital

The Ellen Pao trial is spilling Silicon Valley secrets

APR 11-12

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2015/04/08/reddit-ceo-ellen-pao-bans-salary-negotiations-to-equalize-pay/

Reddit CEO Ellen Pao Bans Salary Negotiations To Equalize Pay For Men, Women

http://fortune.com/2015/02/24/ellen-pao-vs-kpcb-doesnt-reflect-silicon-valley-venture-capital/

Ellen Pao vs. KPCB doesn't reflect Silicon Valley venture capital

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/noreen-farrell/what-happens-when-women-l_b_7040830.html

What Happens When Women Lead Companies

http://www.mercurynews.com/opinion/ci_27888808/mercury-news-editorial-audrie-pott-ellen-pao-cases

male employers who, while not legally culpable, sure sounded clueless

societal issues that raise cry out for culture change / opportunities for conversation around the dinner table, at school, at the mall, anywhere… Ottawahitech (talk) 12:39, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

APR 21

http://www.inc.com/welcome.html?destination=http://www.inc.com/kimberly-weisul/ellen-pao-imperfect-personality.html

The Ellen Pao Case and the Impossible Demands of Being Perfect

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2015/03/30/ellen_pao_trial_the_lawsuit_brought_awareness_to_workplace_sexism_but_the.html Ottawahitech (talk) 13:47, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

The “Bright Side” of the Ellen Pao Trial Isn’t Very Bright

Can't post more links today

Looks like an article I started about the judge in the case has just been nominated for deletion. I don't have the time to work both angles, sorry. Ottawahitech (talk)

Week four Re/code bloggers

Liz Gannes and Nellie Bowles of Re/code:

• http://recode.net/tag/pao-trial/
• "Juliet de Baubigny Says She Never Felt Discriminated Against at Kleiner Perkins" March 20, 2015
• "Live: Closing Arguments in Ellen Pao’s Gender Discrimination Case Against Kleiner Perkins" March 25, 2015
• "Live: Day Two of the Ellen Pao v. Kleiner Perkins Case Summations" March 25, 2015
• "Ellen Pao’s Case Ends on an Impassioned Plea for Women in Tech" March 25, 2015
• "FAQ: What Happens Now in the Ellen Pao/Kleiner Perkins Trial?" March 26, 2015
• "Live: The Pao v. Kleiner Perkins Verdict March 27, 2015

Semi-protected edit request on 11 June 2015

Remove Pao effect article - one journal source does not a movement make, and it does not add anything to the ongoing legal battle between Pao and Kline. 104.156.228.91 (talk) 16:38, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Not done for now: I would like to see a consensus on this talk page first for removing the statement outright, as at the moment, it's properly sourced, neutral, and not original research. I could add "This has been referred to as the "Pao effect" by Fortune" to the statement instead. Mz7 (talk) 17:22, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

No criticism allowed?

I'm curious as to why there isn't a Criticism/Controversy subject in Pao's article, as several thousand other articles do have said subject. It's irrefutable that she has generated a lot of it (some warranted, some not). Am I missing something? Or is her article exempt from the universal practices and standards that have been implemented on this website for years? It feels and reads like a whitewash effort. Is she, dare I say, privileged? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.137.136.18 (talk) 08:39, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

She is certainly not privileged, and this article is definitely not exempt from our policies and guidelines. In particular, a core content policy on Wikipedia is that information presented in the article must fairly represent all significant viewpoints that have been published by reliable sources, in proportion to the prominence of each viewpoint in the published, reliable sources—see Wikipedia:Neutral point of view. Also, because Pao is a living person, we must take extra caution in making sure this article follows the core content policies, as we would do on any biography on a living person. It is not Wikipedia's job to be sensationalist, or to be the primary vehicle for the spread of titillating claims about people's lives; the possibility of harm to living subjects must always be considered when exercising editorial judgment. Please read Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons for more information. If there is any significant controversy/viewpoint regarding Pao we are omitting, please let us know and we can discuss it. Make sure you provide evidence in the form of reliable sources that links Pao to the controversy. Including recent controversy on reddit is being discussed right now in a section above. Best, Mz7 (talk) 22:46, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Recent censorship by Ellen Pao on reddit

More should be written about her recent action of censorship on reddit that is breaking the site and saw several subreddits banned, comments removed and posts deleted, even a comic that criticizes her. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fphfphfphfph (talk • contribs) 07:35, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

If you believe its noteworthy, then by all means follow the guidelines set up by wikipedia for matters like these and work to get such information up. 74.128.43.180 (talk) 11:18, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

IMHO it should have at least some mention and a stub tag already. This is absolutely significant, all negative connotations aside. June 12 07:03

Better yet, why don't we write about all the butt-hurt reddeditors that are vandalizing this page because their sub-reddit's got shut down :P KoshVorlon Rassekali ternii i mlechnye puti 16:40, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Because that isn't notable. I would think that the controversy itself is notable though given the extent of the news coverage. TheCascadian 19:57, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

This 'controversy' (if we must use that term), is already mentioned on Reddit and Controversial Reddit communities where it belongs. I don't think it's sufficiently relevant to Pao directly to mention here, unless reliable sources say otherwise. Yishan Wong doesn't mention any of the various 'controversies' on Reddit that took place under his tenure, nor does Alexis Ohanian. Robofish (talk) 23:30, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

I disagree. Yes, the Yishan Wong article doesn't mention any controversies on Reddit, but as a stub, the article really doesn't say much about anything. It could be possible that there are controversies that are worth discussing in the article that just haven't been written about yet. Also, reliable sources have discussed Pao in connection with the recent Reddit controversy. What's particularly notable is her direct relationship with the Reddit community as a result of actions performed under her tenure: [1][2][3][4]. Reliable sources have also discussed other internal changes Pao has made to Reddit during her term as CEO: [5]. All of this can be discussed in the "Career" section, after the sentence about her joining Reddit. Respectfully, Mz7 (talk) 23:01, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

OK, fair enough. I'm still not convinced it's all that significant in the course of her overall career, but if you disagree, feel free to add a sentence to the article. My own feeling is that it would be a bit recentist - it might be better to wait a little while and see how this 'controversy' pans out. Robofish (talk) 00:05, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. Your cautiousness makes sense. I wouldn't support anything more than a sentence or two per WP:UNDUE. Best, Mz7 (talk) 01:23, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

"Intense Criticism"

The "intense criticism" I see is mostly derogatory and degrading memes about Pao. Can we follow the Washington Post's lead and refer to it as harassment? [6] Kodra22 (talk) 21:46, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

• I would support such a change, however I'd like to see more of a consensus first. Of the 4 articles cited, 3 talk about the response of reddit (Salon being the exception). Of those 3, one (Think Progress) has no more than a sentence ("Reddit’s homepage quickly filled with comparisons of Pao to Nazis along with calls for her immediate resignation."); the second (Express) talks only of the petition and calls for resignation but does not characterize it as "criticism" and it is only a paragraph or two in a larger article; the third is the WaPo article which characterizes it as "harassment" and is entirely about the actual response of the community to the move. As such, characterizing it as harassment is verifiable and not original research (and describing it as "intense criticism" is actually not verified by the sources). However, because of the connotations of "harassment" I'm not sure how neutral such a move would be, and would prefer to see more of a consensus first. Wugapodes (talk) 23:43, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

I also support this proposed change, and I've gone ahead and implemented it. Let's see if anyone objects. PeterTheFourth has made few or no other edits outside this topic. 03:03, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

I was the one who wrote "intense criticism". I would support following the lead of reliable sources, but it is difficult because we have to balance this with WP:NPOV. Saying this is "harassment" is arguably taking up a viewpoint (violating WP:IMPARTIAL). That being said, so would saying it's "criticism". I suppose we could go with "intense harassment" for now, but I have a small feeling it might be a bit inappropriate. We could instead say: "Pao was subject to what has been described as intense harassment...", although that's slightly awkward. —Mz7 (talk) 18:39, 17 June 2015 (UTC) Update: If we're following RS coverage, we should strike "intense". Mz7 (talk) 18:50, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

I would also agree with striking intense, for the reasons stated above. Plus it reads a bit awkwardly Kodra22 (talk) 21:16, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

There are other ways to source besides pointing to Reddit chatter. Reddit users have been very clear on their disapproval of the new CEO, it isn't an internet secret; It's global news at-this-point - with updates every few hours regarding the discrimination lawsuit. This SOURCE is only 1 day old; Two general partners at the venture capital firm (John Doerr and Beth Seidenberg) interviews about the gender-discrimination lawsuit. You can add it to the WIKI. It mentions there was a very good work relation ship with Ellen Pao while she was Chief of Staff. A relationship trusting enough to promote Ellen Pao to an partnership/investor. It's a situation that didn't work out and left some hurt feelings in the process. Some of you are complaining about "intense criticism" in the WIKI, but these are direct NEWS sources. A growing number of news sources, illustrating the story. I for one have to agree with the court's decision & consensus on this issue; This is obviously not Gender Discrimination and Ellen Pao is not a victim. So why debate that fact? --j0eg0d (talk) 10:13, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

The section in which the term was used (and then updated) was specifically about the response to Reddit's decision to ban certain subreddits. The RSes cited did not classify the response as anything other than harassment. I'm not sure how that article you linked is relevant to that section. If you want to suggest an edit to another section, I say go for it. Kodra22 (talk) 16:44, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Information not supported by source

"Reddit users also critized her lawsuit and complained about deletions of posts about it on reddit." The context of this paragraph is about Reddit's decision to delete several subreddits. The citation supporting this statement is about a scandal involving her husband, which isn't mentioned in the article. I don't think this statement in context is supported by the cited source. 199.91.141.248 (talk) 18:47, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

Ok I fixed it. But what do you mean by "the context of this paragraph is about Reddit's decision to delete several subreddits"? It's meantioned in the sentence you just cited and is set in the context of her engagement on reddit. --Fixuture (talk) 19:30, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

My point is that the source supporting that sentence refers to 'it' implying things not actually mentioned in that article. That article as a source doesn't cover anything in the entire section, so I'm not sure why it's being cited. As a comment about the new citation, I didn't think Breitbart was considered a RS. 199.91.141.248 (talk) 20:55, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

Well I'm not sure if Breitbart is a RS. I removed it as of now.

>My point is that the source supporting that sentence refers to 'it' implying things not actually mentioned in that article.

I think the article is clear enough: "but in recent days has seen users on her company’s hugely popular website complain that stories critical of Pao and her husband have been taken down from the site’s sub-sections". --Fixuture (talk) 21:25, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

There is not broad agreement about the reliability level of Breitbart, but it is certainly not sufficient for a contentious BLP claim that lacks corroboration in a more reliable source (under which circumstance Breitbart would probably be redundant and the citation best omitted) Rhoark (talk) 03:27, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Victoria Taylor

Can the admins please add a summary of the events that ensued in the wake of Pao's firing Taylor?

http://www.wired.com/2015/07/reddit-amageddon/

Waidawut (talk) 01:29, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

• The article you linked to doesn't mention or even imply that Pao had any involvement whatsoever with Taylor's termination. ☺ · Salvidrim! · ✉ 01:43, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

Too soon, anyway. WP:NOTNEWS Rhoark (talk) 01:58, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

"Signatures to Remove Ellen Pao as CEO of Reddit Eclipses 73,000"

This is just an IDEA for the article, if there are any neutrality issues, etc please contact me by putting {{ping|Anarchyte}} under this request or by leaving a comment on my talk page.

A petition was made on Change.org for Pao to step down as CEO of Reddit Inc. reached over 73,000 signatures since the firing of Victoria Taylor and the "blackout" of multiple subreddits. Anarchyte 11:39, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

Comments

This is a discussion, any off topic or derogatory comments will be removed. Please try and stay civil when talking to other uses and always assume good faith. As this is about a WP:BIO, you must abide to the Biography of Living Persons rules.

It's reached 85,000 as of now. Shtalic (talk) 12:32, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

@Anarchyte: I'd suggest adding it like this to the career section:
"Furthermore, multiple petitions asking for her resignation were formed, garnering over 10.000 signatures respectively after the subreddit bans with one of them reaching over 78.000 signatures after the controversial dismissal of two popular reddit administrators and a subsequent protest of subreddit-moderators."

Also here's another German-language ref (from Der Standard) for it: http://derstandard.at/2000018574154/Reddit-Laute-Rufe-nach-Absetzung-von-CEO-Ellen-Pao

@Shtalic: It's garnering signatures quickly, so most news articles (such as these: 1, 2, 3) aren't really up to date. We still have to use their numbers though.

--Fixuture (talk) 12:49, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

We don't have to use numbers from secondaries. The petition itself is verifiable for the number of signatures, with secondaries establishing that it's legit and noteworthy. I still say we should give it a week for everyone to get the story straight before it goes in the article. Rhoark (talk) 14:34, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

@Rhoark: Change.org is on the site blacklist, we can't use that as reference. That's the only issue I had when I was writing that short sentence above. Also, wouldn't it be pretty easy to fix just by putting the {{outdated}} and/or {{current event}} tag/s on the page? Anarchyte 00:43, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

Well it just reached over 100.000 signatures. Here's another source: http://mashable.com/2015/07/04/ellen-pao-reddit-petition/ More articles are probably coming up tomorrow.
@Rhoark: That's not reasonable. One of Wikipedia's core advantages is its up-to-dateness - you can see what happens at articles of truly large events (and mind you this event also affects millions): they get updated in minute-intervals. --Fixuture (talk) 21:16, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

Sure, it happens a lot - more than it should. It results in information being added before accuracy and proper context can become clear. WP:NOTNEWS. Rhoark (talk) 21:33, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

I agreed with Rhoark. We have a project for up to the minute updates on breaking news, Wikinews. We don't know whether this will actually be an important aspect of her career or not, particularly since there's little evidence she made any of the decisions being criticised. Just because we can provide up to the minute updates doesn't mean we should. Wugapodes (talk) 01:51, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

@Wugapodes: I don't think this is a case of this being an importance aspect but more of a case of controversy. If you search "Ellen Pao" most of the results (for me) are about the current predicament she and Reddit are in. Going onto the news section has a lot of content on the blackout of multiple subreddits. I think this clearly shows this is an important aspect of her Reddit career. Anarchyte 08:01, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

Ellen Pao ≠ reddit. If you have sources that say Ellen Pao directly made the decisions being criticized, we can talk about that, things actually related to Pao. And I'm not saying covering this isn't something that should be done, I'm saying that requesting an update every time someone signs a petition is a waste of time for something that is tangentially related to her. Wugapodes (talk) 16:49, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

Particularly since we don't even know the veracity of the signatures, as it's very possible the numbers could be inflated by bots or multiple signatures, especially given reddit's history of spamming and vandalizing sites like wikipedia. That's why we should wait, so that verifiable sources (and change.org itself) can make sure that the signatures are legitimate. Wugapodes (talk) 16:55, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

I updated to over 100,000 per the reliable source cited. The petition is around 130,000 at this point. We do not need to cite every 5k or 10k, 20k, etc. but when reliable sources are reporting the 100,000 number, that matters and is noteworthy as to both her as the leader of reddit, and reddit itself. I would readdress the number if it reaches 150,000 while still controversial, or more specific once things have calmed down. KnightLago (talk) 18:42, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

And now the page is protected?! As of now it makes it seem as if the 100.000 signatures were made after the subreddit-bans but that is not the case, also it's not both petitions that garnered them but the one which was chosen by the voters to be the major petition, please somebody please fix this mess. Here's what I'd suggest (also note that the page-protection is unneeded and detrimental to its goal in this case):

"Furthermore, multiple petitions asking for her resignation were formed, garnering over 10.000 signatures respectively after the subreddit bans with one of them reaching over 130.000 signatures after the controversial dismissal of a popular reddit administrator and the subsequent protest of subreddit-moderators."<ref>{{cite web|last1=Brennan|first1=Christopher|title=Campaign against Reddit CEO tops 130,000 signatures after discussion site thrown into 'revolt' following firing of popular employee|url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3150245/Campaign-against-Reddit-CEO-tops-130-000-signatures-discussion-site-thrown-revolt-following-firing-popular-employee.html|publisher=DailyMail|accessdate=5 July 2015|date=5 July 2015}}</ref><ref>{{cite web|last1=Musil|first1=Steven|title=Petition for Pao resignation from Reddit grows to 130K|url=http://www.cnet.com/news/petition-for-pao-resignation-from-reddit-grows-to-130k/|publisher=Cnet|accessdate=5 July 2015|date=5 July 2015}}</ref><ref>{{cite web|last1=Malik|first1=Naureen|last2=Jones|first2=Tim|title=Reddit CEO Pao Under Fire as Users Protest Removal of Executive|url=http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-07-04/reddit-restores-most-of-site-after-moderator-led-blackouts|publisher=Bloomberg|accessdate=5 July 2015|date=5 July 2015}}</ref>

--Fixuture (talk) 22:08, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

Done. This is clearer based on what was originally written. KnightLago (talk) 22:34, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

Thank you. There's still one small thing that needs to be changed: the ", respectively" at the end of the sentence should be moved to "...garnering over 10,000 signatures respectively after...". --Fixuture (talk) 22:44, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

I do not mind moving it, but I do not think it fits grammatically. I am not sure it even belongs in the sentence now as written. How does it fit grammatically, because from where I have looked I am not seeing it? KnightLago (talk) 23:18, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

I don't see how it would grammatically make sense as of right now. But it's also false: after the subreddits were banned the petitions were set up. All of them garnerered about 10.000 signatures respectively by that point. Then two administrators were fired in addition to controversial deletions and bad communication with the moderators. Subsequently moderators protested (because of the dismissal of the administrator of /r/IAmA) and reddit users went in the second round of protest and literally flooded the petition with their signatures which is why it now reached 130.000 signatures (well 140.000 as of right now). As of right now the petition still has about 10.000 signatures as reddit users kind of chose one of them to vote on in the 2nd round; so saying all petitions reached 130.000 signatures respectively is false. --Fixuture (talk) 23:36, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

This is what it says now: "Multiple petitions were subsequently formed calling for her removal, garnering over 10,000 signatures after the subreddit bans, with one of them reaching over 130,000 signatures after the controversial dismissal of a popular reddit administrator and the subsequent protest of subreddit-moderators, respectively." I think that is all correct, no? The order seems correct. We just seem to be left with "respectively." KnightLago (talk) 00:31, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

@KnightLago: Try this: "Following the ban of the controversial [[Reddit#Subreddits|subreddits]], multiple petitions were formed calling for her to step down as CEO of Reddit Inc.. The petitions garnered over 10,000 signatures after the bans, with one of them reaching 130,000 signatures<ref name="revolt1">{{cite web|url=http://www.businessinsider.com/fire-ellen-pao-petition-100000-plus-signatures-in-2-days-2015-7|title=A petition to remove Ellen Pao as Reddit CEO has added more than 100,000 signatures in 3 days|date=6 July 2015|access-date=6 July 2015|first1=Matt|last1=Rosoff|website=[[Business Insider]]|archive-url=http://web.archive.org/web/20150706012159/http://www.businessinsider.com.au/fire-ellen-pao-petition-100000-plus-signatures-in-2-days-2015-7|archive-date=6 July 2015}}</ref> after the dismissal of a popular Reddit administrator, Victoria Taylor, and the subsequent protest of subreddit-[[internet forum moderator|moderators]].<ref name="revolt2">{{cite web|url=http://www.wired.com/2015/07/reddit-amageddon/|title=Reddit Is Revolting|date=3 July 2015|access-date=6 July 2015|website=[[WIRED]]|archive-url=http://web.archive.org/web/20150706011659/http://www.wired.com/2015/07/reddit-amageddon/|archive-date=6 July 2015}}</ref>

In action (without the nowikis): "Following the ban of the controversial [[Reddit#Subreddits|subreddits]], multiple petitions were formed calling for her to step down as CEO of Reddit Inc.. The petitions garnered over 10,000 signatures after the bans, with one of them reaching 130,000 signatures<ref name="revolt1">{{cite web|url=http://www.businessinsider.com/fire-ellen-pao-petition-100000-plus-signatures-in-2-days-2015-7|title=A petition to remove Ellen Pao as Reddit CEO has added more than 100,000 signatures in 3 days|date=6 July 2015|access-date=6 July 2015|first1=Matt|last1=Rosoff|website=[[Business Insider]]|archive-url=http://web.archive.org/web/20150706012159/http://www.businessinsider.com.au/fire-ellen-pao-petition-100000-plus-signatures-in-2-days-2015-7|archive-date=6 July 2015}}</ref> after the dismissal of a popular Reddit administrator, Victoria Taylor, and the subsequent protest of subreddit-[[internet forum moderator|moderators]].<ref name="revolt2">{{cite web|url=http://www.wired.com/2015/07/reddit-amageddon/|title=Reddit Is Revolting|date=3 July 2015|access-date=6 July 2015|website=[[WIRED]]|archive-url=http://web.archive.org/web/20150706011659/http://www.wired.com/2015/07/reddit-amageddon/|archive-date=6 July 2015}}</ref>

That is good. I made the changes almost verbatim. I nowiki'd the references again. KnightLago (talk) 01:56, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Edit request: source Chinese name

I would like to add a source to the Chinese name:

• Streitfield, David. "硅谷性別歧視案女高管鮑康如敗訴." The New York Times. March 29, 2015. "原告鮑康如(Ellen Pao)控告凱鵬華盈(Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers)在她任職期間及最終被解僱之時，存在性別歧視。"

WhisperToMe (talk) 07:55, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Chinese article

I started a Chinese article on Ellen Pao at zh:鮑康如, using a Chinese-language NYT article as a source for her Chinese name. If anybody wants to build up the article and watch over it, please do so WhisperToMe (talk) 08:28, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

New York Times: Pao Apologizes

The New York Times just published this article on Pao and reddit that may be useful in updating the article. It contains some quotes from her, her response to the "vitriolic detractors",and an overview of the most recent controversies. Wugapodes (talk) 23:44, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

BIASED ARTICLE

The page looks incredibly biased, putting everything Pao did (even a fraudolent lawsuit!) in a positive light and omitting important details. Please allow it to be edited. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.145.168.80 (talk) 19:39, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

You are welcome to discuss specific changes to the article here. Deli nk (talk) 19:44, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Our goal isn't to cast anyone in a positive or negative light. Rather, we want to present what has been said about a topic from a neutral point of view. If there is a significant viewpoint that we're omitting, please let us know here and we'll discuss it. Remember, Wikipedia is not a publisher of original thought—information presented here should represent what has been written about Pao in published, reliable sources. If you are recommending a viewpoint be included, it is important you provide these sources. The reason the article is temporarily protected at the moment is because we have seen a wave of bad-faith edits, such as this one, that disrupted Wikipedia. Best, Mz7 (talk) 22:32, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Actually, avoiding all negative to the point of saying, the lawsuit resulted in a "favorable verdict for Kleiner Perkins" (as opposed to something like, "Pao lost her case charging discrimination and retaliation") is actually pretty good indication of bias and attempting to cast her in a positive light. Kleiner didn't bring the suit, Pao did. She lost, but Kleiner, with a bill for nearly 1 million in lawyer fees, didn't really "win" anything, they merely successfully defended themselves against a frivolous suit. The jury rejected every one of her claims. So, yes, the authors of this page are biased in her favor. 98.219.126.182 (talk) 00:26, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

I've got my reliable sources ready to be cited in the article, but I'd rather write it myself than telling someone else what to do, I guess I'll wait for the disruption to calm down — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.145.168.80 (talk) 14:32, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Look Out Below! Editors who frequent this page may be interested to learn that Twitter chatter today indicates that this BLP is the target of a new Gamergate operation. Note, too, that Gamergate is currently fond of using IP accounts to supplement its roster of zombies and newbies. Good luck, folks! MarkBernstein (talk) 16:25, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

You're very enthusiastic about this claim, but your accusations need sourcing. --j0eg0d (talk) 09:43, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

^ sourced. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 12:19, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

edit request 7 july

Per a local CBS news affiliate a petition calling for her to resign has reached 177,000 as of 6 July. Please update from 130,000 in article. —  dainomite   07:11, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Done — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 08:37, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

inb4 BLP violations on this talk page.

Don't post defamatory content here, it'll get removed. Grognard Extraordinaire Chess (talk) Ping when replying 01:16, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

For any editors who might get confused about what's going on: Reddit recently banned some subreddits, one of which had about 150,000 users. Predictably, the users got mad about it and decided to vent by vandalizing this page (among other things). Wallamander (talk) 03:25, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

No one vandalised anything. It's more like Wikidrones deleting what they "don't like!!

A vast majority of the Reddit community believes that Pao [is] “a manipulative individual who will sue her way to the top” Independent 7 July 2015

Seem pretty conclusive to me what they think of her. A quote like that should be in the article.81.129.95.249 (talk) 08:55, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Almost at 200,000 signatures.

Please change it accordingly. Links for reference: [7]

Also, I've made a request at [[MediaWiki_talk:Spam-whitelist#www.change.org.2Fp.2Fellen-k-pao-step-down-as-ceo-of-reddit-inc the whitelist] request page for the official petition page to be unblocked (so that it can be used as a reference, instead of waiting for secondary sources). Anarchyte 10:35, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Ellen Kangju Pao

It's included in many reliable sources that Ellen's middle initial is K., so I did some original research (https://pipl.com/search/?q=ellen+pao&l=San+Francisco%2C+California&sloc=US%7CCA%7CSan+Francisco&in=5), and it's safe to say that her full middle name is Kangju, an alternative romanization of her Chinese first name, Kangru. I haven't been able to find it in any reliable sources, just Pipl, which I linked to. Does anyone have any ideas? --WikiWinters (talk) 15:36, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Edit request July 8, 2015

Please change with one of them reaching 200,000 signatures with with a [[Change.org]] [[petition]] reaching 200,000 signatures. This adds specificity to the specific petition and the existing reference states: "The protest has also included a relatively unusual petition on Change.org, one that's calling for Pao to resign. As of Tuesday morning, it had more than 200,000 signatures." —  dainomite   19:58, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Seems uncontroversial, but I don't think it's necessary to link petition.  Done — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 22:12, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Fair enough, thank you. —  dainomite   03:29, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 10 July 2015

Ellen pao resigned his leadership of reddit

Lopsdd (talk) 21:28, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Specifically see New York Times article here. General Ization ^Talk 21:31, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

**her Qaisjp (talk) 21:33, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

• Endorse edit request. Basically add something along the lines of "On July 10, 2015, Pao resigned as CEO of Reddit" to the Career section and add in "formerly" to the lead section. Mz7 (talk) 21:45, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

yoshiman6464 (talk) 21:46, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Done, citing the official announcement from Reddit. the wub "?!" 21:51, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Thank you! Mz7 (talk) 22:07, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

@The wub: As reddit isn't normally classed as "reliable", you may wanna throw in this news report (Sydney Morning Herald) as well. Anarchyte 01:24, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

Or the New York Times article cited at the top of this section. General Ization ^Talk 01:25, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

I think the reddit source would fall under WP:SELFPUB, which states that self-published and questionable sources may be used as sources of information about themselves, but subject to certain conditions. I think all conditions are satisfied, so the reddit self source is fine for now. Mz7 (talk) 05:36, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

You will have to change "interim chief executive officer of Internet company reddit." in the introductroy paragraph too. Shtalic (talk) 02:43, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

You seem to have missed the two words "was previously" at the beginning of the sentence. She was indeed previously the interim CEO. General Ization ^Talk 02:44, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

Her age

According to this article, it says her age is 46. I'd like to add Born c. 1968-1969 to her birthdate. Hyperultra (talk) 01:23, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Can we find a source with her actual birthday? With all the press and litigation I would think there would be a source with a specific date out there. KnightLago (talk) 01:59, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Having an article about a person without that basic life data is kind of weird. I'd put in as good an information as there is available for now, and leave it to others to find better sources. --Giszmo (talk) 17:11, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

Needs work

This article has some duplicated text with Pao v. Kleiner Perkins that should be dealt with in summary style, i.e. summarized more tightly here. The "Career" section should have a subsection on Kleiner Perkins that includes a sub-subsection on the lawsuit, followed by a subsection on Reddit with a sub-subsection on the present campaign there. I don't know what the revision-deleted IP heckler said, but it doesn't seem worth leaving this article stuck in such a disorganized state. Wnt (talk) 22:56, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

If you want to post specific revisions here we can incorporate them as you post them if everyone agrees they are appropriate, don't give undue weight, etc. Otherwise give it a week or so to let things cool down further and I would likely drop the protection level. KnightLago (talk) 23:05, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Pao just resigned. I expect renewed fervor. Please don't lower protection just yet. Let's make sure what edits make it into the article really adhere to BLP. ☺ · Salvidrim! · ✉ 21:33, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Like That's a good idea. —  dainomite   20:18, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

I was (apparently) banned for sharing unpopular facts about ellen pao

if someone else would include any new factoids or sections this article sums the actions of her husband and herself in regards to frivolous lawsuits: http://nypost.com/2015/07/12/ellen-pao-hedgie-husband-are-losing-their-power-couple-status/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.210.242.135 (talk) 05:21, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

You were never banned, nor was your IP address blocked. However, the page has been fully protected so that only administrators can edit the page. On Wikipedia, we have an important policy regarding biographies of living people. One of the core principles of that policy is that every fact we add to an article about a living person that is contentious or likely to be challenged must be cited by a reliable source. We have this policy because Wikipedia articles have the potential to maliciously harm the reputation of subjects in real life if we are not careful. The reason this page has been fully protected is because we have seen a wave of violations to the biographies of living persons policy—editors were adding contentious claims without citing reliable sources. I'm glad you are willing to propose changes on the talk page so we can discuss their inclusion, though. And thank you for providing a source. I have no comment yet as to whether the proposed content should be added—I need to read up on it to see if including it wouldn't place undue weight on minority viewpoints. Mz7 (talk) 06:21, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

I think that ny post source has the facts that are already in this wiki article and also Fletch'ers page, but then makes comments on the power couple status. I think the only thing it might be good for is to add Pao and Fletcher to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercouple which also redirects if you search for power couple. Popish Plot (talk) 18:48, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Former CEO

She resigned.[8] Oduduserra (talk) 20:20, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Here's an article from The Guardian: [9] Oduduserra (talk) 20:22, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

It already says that here, do you know if that source has any new info? Popish Plot (talk) 20:26, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Resignation

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-07-10/ellen-pao-resigns-as-reddit-interim-ceo-after-user-revolt

She has resigned and is no longer the CEO of reddit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Neoform (talk • contribs) 22:28, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Already done see edit request above diff Mz7 (talk) 22:44, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Can we mention it in the lead though?--88.104.129.16 (talk) 17:40, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

Hello? See edit request above diff General Ization ^Talk 20:23, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

Sarcasm is very helpful. How about improving the sentence; "previously" is quite far up from "ceo". How about, "'''Ellen Pao''' is an American lawyer. She was the [[Interim management|interim]] [[chief executive officer]] of Internet company [[reddit]] from 2014 to 2015. Pao was previously a junior investing partner at [[Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers]] and a corporate director at [[Flipboard]]." VQuakr (talk) 21:28, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

I'd be happy to. Unfortunately, this article is fully protected at the moment. The point of my sarcasm (there was a point) was only that editors are expected to read as well as write. General Ization ^Talk 21:52, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

If there is a consensus to implement a change, just use {{edit protected}} to signal for an admin. Mz7 (talk) 21:55, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

Edit request

A decent amount of users have reported being confused by the lead paragraph; it appears that the lead doesn't make it that clear that Pao was previously the CEO of Reddit. While it's a grammatically correct sentence, I can understand the confusion, since the word "previously" is a bit separated. As a result, there is a rough consensus on this talk page (see above) to clarify this. I would prefer changing the lead to:

Ellen Pao is an American lawyer and former interim chief executive officer of Internet company reddit. Pao was also previously a junior investing partner at Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers and a corporate director at Flipboard.

But the exact phrasing is at editorial discretion. Mz7 (talk) 22:05, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

The instance of "reddit" should be "Reddit." —  WikiWinters ☯ 韦安智   01:17, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Done — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 23:22, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 13 July 2015

"interim CEO of reddit"

she is the former ceo of reddit

XxEnder GamerxX (talk) 23:16, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Not done: This was covered in the request above. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 23:23, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

"Reddit" vs. "reddit"

I found at least one instance of the improperly formatted "reddit" in the article. This should be capitalized. --WikiWinters (talk) 16:23, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

I changed one. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:46, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

@MSGJ: You changed it to the incorrect form. It should be capitalized. --WikiWinters (talk) 00:23, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Are you sure? The article reddit itself says that it is "reddit" and not "Reddit". — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 11:38, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

@MSGJ: Yes, I'm sure. The article itself says that it is stylized as "reddit," but that doesn't mean that we should use that form on Wikipedia, as you'll notice that all of the instances of the name in that article are formatted as "Reddit." We don't use stylized words on Wikipedia (unless they are acceptable by policy, like iPod. See MOS:TM. —  WikiWinters ☯ 韦安智   00:28, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

@MSGJ: I hate to be bothersome, but there are still at least three instances of the incorrect, uncapitalized form. IIRC, these were there since I made this request. —  WikiWinters ☯ 韦安智   15:10, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 12 July 2015

I would like to fix a very wordy sentence: "In 2007, Pao married Buddy Fletcher, a former hedge fund manager, meeting him through Aspen Institute functions during the summer of 2007, after they were both appointed Crown Fellows."

I am thinking it should be fixed as follows: "In 2007, Pao married Buddy Fletcher, a former hedge fund manager. The two met through Aspen Institute functions, after they were both appointed Crown Fellows, during the summer of 2007."

Thanks in advance! JC713 (talk) 15:50, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Done — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 23:27, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Thank you very much Mr. Stradivarius! I really appreciate it! JC713 (talk) 16:59, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

add spouse and daughter

her first husband was roger kuo, her harvard business school college boyfriend. she married buddy in dec 2007 4months after they met in aspen. their daughter matilda pao fletcher was born in july 2008. here are sources : http://www.vanityfair.com/style/scandal/2013/03/buddy-fletcher-ellen-pao http://www.bostonmagazine.com/2012/02/is-harvard-graduate-buddy-fletcher-financial-genius-or-fake/2/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.246.91.141 (talk) 20:25, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

Age

An article in The Independent says Ms. Pao was born in 1970. Somehow birth-year-and-age should be worked into the article?
Cf. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/ellen-pao-profile-the-woman-who-runs-reddit-and-that-silicon-valley-loves-to-hate-10381843.html
--- Wikiklrsc (talk) 05:07, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

I looked to see if anything online showed her actual birth date but it looks like the year being 1970 is the most info about her birthday and age out there. Popish Plot (talk) 18:49, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I came up with nothing other than this article. Other articles were more vague. It's odd that the birth date of such a high-profile person isn't known. But I guess that's a good thing. Maybe someone will actually put it in the article since only admins can edit it. --- Wikiklrsc (talk) 05:29, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

At some point will some admin editor put in the birth year of 1970? --- Wikiklrsc (talk) 17:00, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

•  Done, in the future you can use the {{EP}} template to request edits to a protected page. ☺ · Salvidrim! · ✉ 17:34, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

Thank you. Will do in the future. Bests. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc (talk) 04:20, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Just a side note, the template to request edits is {{edit protected}}. {{EP}} is a response template that produces things like: Done and Not done:. Mz7 (talk) 22:05, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks very much. Bests. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc (talk) 04:08, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

Quote boxes

@Connor Behan: So we should probably discuss the quote boxes. I'm not a fan of quote boxes in the first place and would prefer none. As said in WP:LONGQUOTE: "quoteboxes should generally be avoided as they draw special attention to the opinion of one source, and present that opinion as though Wikipedia endorses it." However I doubt you'd agree to that, and I can see an argument for one. If we're going to keep a quote box, I think Pao's should be kept over Wong's. Firstly, I think Wong's introduces some neutrality issues by being put in a block quote because then we're giving special prominence to a defense of Pao (when there are other points of view). Second, I think, in a section about her exit from Reddit, if we're going to give special prominence to any particular point of view on the matter, I think it should be hers and her own stated rationale for leaving rather than someone else's interpretation of her motives and of the events. I don't think Wong's point needs to be entirely eliminated, rather, that it would be better if incorporated into the text. Thoughts? Wugapodes (talk) 02:42, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

Those are good arguments, so go ahead and use whichever quotation you prefer. I'll just explain why I think Wong's quote is special objectively. First, a former CEO and current shareholder who is in contact with all of the major players fits the usual definition of a reliable source. But unlike all of the other "reliable sources", he made a comment that is not vague at all. In one of those threads, Ohanian said he doesn't want to go into details. Pao mentioned pressure to grow the user base but did not say whether there were other disagreements with the board. This course of action makes perfect sense for someone who's still looking for a job. Wong's post may be non-neutral but it has a higher "reliability to vagueness ratio" than anything I thought I would see. It's something that could only have come from someone who no longer wants to be any sort of executive. Yes, many people have different points of view on Pao and they don't buy Wong's Reddit or Quora posts, but I don't think any qualify for the high "reliability to vagueness" category. Connor Behan (talk) 05:34, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Original research?

"Ellen Pao made at least two apologies on July 3; one delivered via Reddit" I don't find the text supported with the given time source. Regards, Sun Creator^(talk) 11:56, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

I think the date is wrong on that.... it should be 6 july.... but Per this cnn article's quote it references and links to her Reddit apology,

“ Today, we acknowledge this long history of mistakes. We are grateful for all you do for reddit, and the buck stops with me," Pao said in a statement posted on the site. "The mods and the community have lost trust in me and in us, the administrators of reddit. ”

Here's another source.... a business insider article stating the same thing on July 6, her apology and then one delivered via reddit with the same apology linked in the article. —  dainomite   15:52, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

The date is completely correct. The first Reddit apology was on July 3, the second Reddit apology was on July 6 and those sources focus on the second one. A sourced sentence in this article about downvotes reducing visibility explains why that is. Connor Behan (talk) 19:55, 17 September 2015 (UTC)