Talk:Eleni Foureira/Archive 1

Archive 1

Comment

Per wp:MOSBIO introductory part there is nothing related that makes the subject notable about his possible ethnic background. Thus the introduction should be in accordance with this (Ethnicity, religion, or sexuality should generally not be in the lead unless it is relevant to the subject's notability. Similarly, previous nationalities or the country of birth should not be mentioned in the lead unless they are relevant to the subject's notability.) .Alexikoua (talk) 13:16, 3 October 2016 (UTC) In case this unexplained disruption persists I'm obliged to ask for page protection.Alexikoua (talk) 12:02, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

-- Albanian is not her previous nationality, but the current one.There exist no reliable source indicating that she has withdrawn her Albanian citizenship. The Albanian law on citizenships, article 17 states "The request for granting, renouncing or re-acquiring the Albanian citizenship should be presented to the organs of the Ministry of the Interior where the applicant is residing, or, if the person is living abroad, in the diplomatic or consular representations of the Republic of Albania abroad, followed by the documents as requested in this law.". Furthermore, Greek laws permit dual citizenships, so she has no necessity to renounce her Albanian citizenship either. Therefore, her nationality is Albanian.

We need to verify if she actually owns a Greek citizenship, which would make her an Albanian/Greek singer.2003:C0:6F1D:DD81:88C1:B36A:DA0:61E2 (talk) 20:32, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Wrong Nationality and Edit Warring

We know she was born in Albania to Albanian parents and lived there until 8 years old, meaning that beyond any reasonable doubt she is a registered Albanian citizen. There is no evidence that she has withdrawn her Albanian citizenship, so the reliable sources indicate her as Albanian (see multiple sources in edit history). The fact that she works and lives in Greece doesn't change her Albanian nationality. For example Shakira works and lives in Spain but she is Colombian, Justin Bieber works and lives in USA but he is Canadian, Rihanna works and lives in USA but is Barbadian. Therefore, by rules of nationality and multiple enumerated examples, Eleni Foureira should indeed be considered of Albanian nationality.

On the other hand, do we have any reliable source stating that she succeeded in acquiring a Greek citizenship? Once her Greek citizenship can be supported by reliable sources we should state "... an Albanian/Greek singer ...", until that proof the lead must stay "Albanian singer".

Note that Greece permits dual citizenship, so any possible acquisition of Eleni's Greek citizenship (to be proved?) does not undo her existing Albanian nationality, unless, as said, there exist reliable sources that explicitly indicate her withdrawal of the Albanian citizenship through the respective legal procedures of Albania and Greece. 2003:C0:6F1D:DD81:88C1:B36A:DA0:61E2 (talk) 20:08, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

I'm afraid that the Bieber and Rihanna examples are completely irrelevant with this case: Bieber still lives in Canada, Rihanna is connected with the culture of Barbados. You need to get accustomed with wp:MOSBIO: Ethnicity, religion, or sexuality should generally not be in the lead unless it is relevant to the subject's notability. Similarly, previous nationalities or the place of birth should not be mentioned in the lead unless they are relevant to the subject's notability. This means that the Northern Epirote background of Foureira shoudln't be part of the lead.Alexikoua (talk) 13:28, 26 July 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 May 2018

George Kokkindis (talk) 12:21, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Hello, I would like to have the right to edit this page and i will do my best in order to improve it.

Not done: It is not possible for individual users to be granted permission to edit a semi-protected article. You can do one of the following:

• You will be able to edit this article without restriction four days after account registration if you make at least 10 constructive edits to other articles.
• You can request the article be unprotected at this page. To do this, you need to provide a valid rationale that refutes the original reason for protection.
• You can provide a specific request to edit the article in "change X to Y" format on this talk page and an editor who is not blocked from editing the article will determine if the requested edit is appropriate.

Thanks, ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 12:52, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Nationality

Reposting a discussion I had with Jjj1238, on Foureira's nationality, as has been discussed and resolved—that although she was born in Albania, she is Greek, of Albanian descent—for other editors' and contributors' reference. Thanks:

December 2019

Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to vandalize pages by deliberately introducing incorrect information, as you did at Eleni Foureira, you may be blocked from editing. Please provide reliable sources (RS) if you wish to change/edit the nationality and/or citizenship of subjects in articles. Thanks. Migsmigss (talk) 16:16, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

@Migsmigss: Excuse me? Please don't act like you know more about this issue than I do. This page has been protected NUMEROUS times because of Greek nationalist trolls who refuse to accept her as Greek. Foureira has said numerous times she solely sees herself as Greek, and there is a whole section regarding her Greek nationality yet Albanian ethnicity. Not to mention, being born in one country yet raised in another does not mean your nationality will be your birth country for your entire life. Additionally, Wikipedia's sole criteria is not citizenship, especially considering Foureira's career is entirely in Greece and has never existed in Albania. She is a Greek of Albanian descent. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 18:11, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

Per WP:MOS/BIO: Ethnicity, religion, or sexuality should generally not be in the lead unless it is relevant to the subject's notability. Similarly, previous nationalities or the place of birth should not be mentioned in the lead unless they are relevant to the subject's notability. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 18:18, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

"Excuse me? Please don't act like you know more about this issue than I do." — Wow, such words. You may please refer to the Albanian nationality law:

"Albanian nationality law is based on a mixture of the principles of Jus sanguinis and Jus soli. In other words, both place of birth and Albanian parentage are relevant for determining whether a person is an Albanian citizen."

Also, please respond with propriety. We do not need unnecessary and unbecoming condescension here on Wikipedia. Continue doing so and I would be required to seek escalation on this on your uncivility. Thanks.

Migsmigss (talk) 18:20, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

@Migsmigss: You are ignoring the Wikipedia policy. Albanian nationality law has NOTHING to do with this. Once again, per WP:MOS/BIO: Ethnicity, religion, or sexuality should generally not be in the lead unless it is relevant to the subject's notability. Similarly, previous nationalities or the place of birth should not be mentioned in the lead unless they are relevant to the subject's notability. Any previous nationalities Foureira may have held are completely irrelevant. She is a Greek singer with her career entirely in Greece. I hope you are aware that right now you are protecting the edits of vandals. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 18:21, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

"Ethnicity, religion, or sexuality..." —Yes, have read and am in agreement. But we are not talking about any of these (ethnicity, religion, or sexuality), but her nationality. She is born in Albania and grew up in Greece, thus she is Greek-Albanian. Who is talking about ethnicity? Not myself. Thanks.

Migsmigss (talk) 18:26, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

@Migsmigss: So would you have preferred it if I left that part out and just included Previous nationalities or the place of birth should not be mentioned in the lead unless they are relevant to the subject's notability? You are blatantly ignoring policy here. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 18:28, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

"Previous nationalities..." —Are there reliable sources that can confirm she did let go of her right as a natural-born Albanian, legally, under international and citizenship laws? Thanks.

Migsmigss (talk) 18:30, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

@Migsmigss: The opening paragraph should usually provide context for the activities that made the person notable. In most modern-day cases this will be the country of which the person is a citizen, national or permanent resident. Please refer to activities that made the person notable and most cases (not all). She is notable for her career in the Greek music industry, is a naturalized Greek citizen, has no connection to the Albanian music industry, and refused to even admit she was born in Albania for years into her career until the press dug it up and exposed her. I'm honestly shocked that you're even debating this issue. As has been said, the article was protected numerous times because of nationalist trolls with numerous seasoned editors having to constantly revert these Albanian edits, and I expect this from them, but you are a Wikipedia editor who I expect to follow policy. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 18:40, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

The clarification is noted, and the edit will be reverted. Again, I am all for open discussion, with propriety and civility, not with such words as "Excuse me? Please don't act like you know more about this issue than I do" which is truly unbecoming of a Wikipedia editor. Thanks.

@Migsmigss: Sorry if that was rude, but I don't take kindly to receiving a level three disruptive editing warning from an editor I've worked with before simply because I was undoing vandalism that they didn't realize was vandalism. A simple "hey what was this edit?" would have sufficed fine. I'm happy we could clear this issue up though. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 18:48, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

Noted, and apology accepted. Would also be more cautious in effecting warnings moving forward. I am all for open discussion, and am quite sensitive to nationality and citizenship topics, as I don't want anyone misrepresented, especially those from the minorities. I am always, and all ways, for equality.

All right, enough of my rant. Thank you for clearing this up with me; looking forward to more open-minded discussions and collaborative work in the future. Have a good day.

Migsmigss (talk) 18:57, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

Comment about Madclip's characterization as "raper"

I had not even noticed it and the other editors instead of correcting me or asking me what I was writing about just kept undoing my change like I had done it on purpose without mentioning anything. I had provided a source so it was easy to understand what I wanted to write. Still, in the comment of their edits they clearly make an implication of me having done it on purpose. Ofc I didn't, 1st I'm not such a person, 2nd what would have been my benefit of me being permanently blocked from editing wikipedia?

Dealer07 (talk) 02:46 12 July 2021 (UTC)

I've commented at the noticeboard discusson regarding this issue, as well as removed my report from WP:AIV. Once you added the source, it was easy to tell what you were trying to do; nonetheless, if you haven't read through the edit you're making, it's generally not good practice to keep making it over and over while arguing with people. jp×g 03:06, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

It's just a one letter difference, everyone could have been confused by sth suchlike. And anyway, if that's the case you could have also made your statement more clear so as to understand what I had been doing wrong, sth you never did.

Dealer07 (talk) 03:15, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Dealer07 reverting editing process

Hello. You keep undoing my edits for the past few days with only one user providing arguments and the others just posing "threats" of blocking. Who has even told you this is fair and moral behaviour when you have a disagreement with sb online? This is antidemocratic and disrespectful at its best and you can't just have things your way owing to the fact you are the administrators. (P.S. The only reason I stopped is to skip blocking, otherwise I wouldn't have dared such thing since no one can refrain me from my opinion in real life without providing sufficient arguments).

Dealer07 (talk) 17:55, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

@Dealer07: Rather than focus on other editors, let's look at the content of the edits. Why have you removed information, including references, about Foureira's Greek ancestry? —C.Fred (talk) 18:49, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

@C.Fred: It is mentioned at least 5 times in the article, wikipedia does not need unnecessary info and repetitions. Didn't you read comments made on bistory before commenting?

Dealer07 (talk) 19:09, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

@Dealer07: That was not anywhere in the edit summaries (or it was so obscured by other commentary that I missed it). Besides, discussion goes on the talk page; edit summaries in a string of reverts are not a substitute for talk-page discussion. —C.Fred (talk) 19:21, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

@Dealer07: Please, familiarize yourself with how Wikipedia operates and refrain from WP:EDITWAR. You claim antidemocratic and disrespectful behavior by your fellow editors against you, yet you are the one who violates the community's guidelines and keeps reverting a version that is fine by at least three editors.

• You do not have WP:CONSENSUS to remove the information about her grandfather and religious affiliation from the "Early life" section.
• You also removed the fact that she gained her Greek citizenship through her grandfather under the "Origin controversy" section. I am ok with the replacement of "through her grandfather" with "through descent" (Greek nationality law).
• The mention to Bebe Rexha supposedly being Eleni's major musical influence originally didn't have any source, and was even tagged with a Template:Citation needed from the 9th until the 22nd of July. The removal of it by Jjj1238 was justified. Now, you added this source, but it still doesn't support what you claimed with your text. The original quote from the source is Στις τάξεις των fan club της ακούστηκαν ονόματα όπως της Bebe Rexha, που η Ελένη της έχει τεράστια αδυναμία, αλλά και του J Balvin!, which translates as In the ranks of her fan club, Bebe Rexha is included, whom Eleni is fond of, as well as J Balvin!. Nothing about Rexha being her major musical influence.
• The sentence, Foureira's repertoire consists mostly of pop and dance-pop music., that you also keep adding, doesn't require the creation of a new section ("Artistry"); this is appropriate for the lede (ideally as second sentence), along with a mention of the laïko genre. Demetrios1993 (talk) 20:37, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

I agree with the points you have stated here, Demetrios. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ ^{(talk ✉ | contribs ✎)} 07:12, 27 July 2021 (UTC)