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Talk:Church of St Giles, Stoke Poges

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Did you know nomination

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 16:50, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Created by KJP1 (talk). Nominated by Theleekycauldron (talk) at 19:21, 25 September 2022 (UTC).[reply]

Bond ... Theresa Bond.
Bond ... Theresa Bond.
We had "Did you know... that James Bond has died?" in 2016, so his wife six years later sounds about right. Edwardx (talk) 00:50, 26 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Interesting building with cultural relations, on excellent sources, no copyvio obvious. The hook would work if these facts were in the prose, with a reference, - not only in footnotes. However, I think if the elegy is what the place is known for, why not that? Perhaps the elegy and one film? The image is licensed and shows fine. - In the article - just some suggestions, not needed: The first line has the word church four times, - any way around it? Even later, every now and then it could just be "it" instead of "the church ... the church". - I could imagine to first have basic history (built when where by whom ...), then description, and only then the poem, in an extra section. Even if you don't want to go that far: consider to first link the elegy in the prose and then speak about it, with a connection to the author. - I am no friend of a quote box sandwiching the text, - perhaps just have the text as a poem quote? - I think the gallery is a bit "mixed", and the lovely painting gets lost in there. I'd normally propose a packed mode, but not for here a gate, there a painting ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:48, 29 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I think the problem with that for DYK is that we won’t meet the “New” criteria. But others will know better than I. KJP1 (talk) 16:29, 3 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The article needs to be new at the time of nomination. The various bits of content can be old as the hills. EEng 17:13, 3 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Done! Now, regarding hooks... The article now has text covering the James Bond bit, so I'd recommend ALT2. EEng 04:38, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the additions. In ALT2, we just have "1750 elegy" which would leave me cold, - a link would be minimum. About the same for the film. The hook says nothing about the subject besides location and older that 1750. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:53, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Don't know what you mean by says nothing about the subject besides location and older that 1750, but as you know, the new hook criterion is likely to be perceived as unusual or intriguing by readers with no special knowledge or interest. Here, the contrast between 1750 and James Bond provides the intrigue. EEng 16:17, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Really? Why would an old elegy intrigue if not this famous one. For ALT2, without any help to that information, you'll need another person to approve. If you link the elegy, I'd be ready, but would also like to know what KJP1 thinks. It seems to be granted that everybody knows James Bond and would be interested in a related church, - isn't that strange ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:36, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Again, its the facial incongruity between the 18th and 20th centuries. Also, this way we pull in both English Lit aficionados and spy movie fans. And while we're on the subject, I tend to be against links in hooks other than the bolded link; if people aren't quite sure what a term or reference means, they can link on the bolded link and find out from there. EEng 16:47, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I hear you and you may find one willing to approve that.
ALT2a: ... that the Church of St Giles, Stoke Poges, is featured in the "Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard" and a James Bond film? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:02, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I’m leaving this one to User:EEng but I cannot remotely see the point of obscuring the reference to Gray’s Elegy. KJP1 (talk) 18:53, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
2a is fine as well. The important point is to juxtapose something stodgy-sounding (an elegy) against Cool Brittania James Bond. EEng 19:04, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Approving Alt2a as that sounds good to me. Onegreatjoke (talk) 15:01, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Possible use

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KJP1 (talk) 22:30, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A couple of things

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EEng - On the issue of suitably scholarly cites for the churchyard/elegy claim, I get your point absolutely. I've now replaced them with a cite, and quote, from Robert Mack, Gray's most recent biographer. He's a professor at Exeter and it's published by Yale, so the credentials are strong. I hope it meets the need. Where we don't agree is over the image of Mrs Bond's grave. I don't understand why it can't appear in the article? I appreciate that the film prop is no longer at St Giles, but many articles reference and illustrate things that are no longer in their original positions. For example; the articles on the Mausoleum at Halicarnassus, the Parthenon and Xanthos are all illustrated with images of sculpture now located in the British Museum. If the concern is that readers may be confused, I'd be happy to expand on the point to make clear the fictional status of Bond and Mrs B. I'm not so fussed about the DYK, although I think a hook along the lines of "DYK that the fictional spy James Bond visits the grave of his wife at the Church of St Giles, Stoke Poges in the opening sequence of For Your Eyes Only, is actually better than any I suggested, but I would like to retain the image in the article. Can you let me know what you think. KJP1 (talk) 10:25, 26 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The new source is exactly the sort of thing I had in mind, but I'd be interested to see a fuller excerpt from Mack -- might let us make the article's treatment of the question more smooth. I'll also explain my thinking re the Bond image more fully, but that'll have to wait a day or two. EEng 20:59, 26 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
No worries - and I’ve got the Mack on order, so should be able to work it up from the Google snippet when it arrives. KJP1 (talk) 05:14, 27 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'll be largely incommunicado for about 2 weeks starting this Sunday, so if you haven't got the quote by then let's pick up after that. EEng 17:35, 29 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Expanded, as the Mack arrived this afternoon, but no rush. KJP1 (talk) 17:42, 29 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Expanded where? All I see in the article is For let us make no mistake, the churchyard of St Giles at Stoke Poges must inevitably and for all practical purposes stand as the churchyard of Gray's Elegy, which I think is what was there before. I'd like to see (here, on this talk page) his larger discussion of the issue. EEng 17:50, 29 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
There is now an entire paragraph on the issue. KJP1 (talk) 18:54, 29 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I've started some article changes I haven't been able to finish, nor explain here, because of an interruption. My apologies, and please have patience. EEng 03:12, 1 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oops, gotta run, might not be able to get back to this for 2 weeks. EEng 14:17, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I'm back from my trip up the Amazon. I'll get back to this presently. EEng 23:33, 15 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

...except I caught Covid, so there was slight delay. Better now. Stand by. EEng 00:24, 22 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

OK, done! I added a source and gave it a light copyedit. Thanks for waiting. EEng 04:30, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Other claims

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Weak on sourcing but the substance seems to be:

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