Talk:Battle of Aleppo (2024)

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Doesn't Rojava control a district of Aleppo? shouldn't they be listed as a combatant?

Title pretty much :0 Genabab (talk) 14:39, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The SDF does control Sheikh Maqsoud, but they aren't involved in the current fighting, neither are the SDF factions in Tel Rifaat in the Northern Aleppo countryside. Sentbuddy02 (talk) 15:09, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

the sdf are not planing to leave either Mazra mariwan (talk) 07:23, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

They have withdrawn from Sheikh Maqsood in 2018 or 2020 as i remember. AlMuslim17 (talk) 15:09, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There are multiple videos of the YPG entering and fortifying Sheikh Masqoud. The neighbourhood has also always been controlled by the YPG since the beginning of the civil war. It was this year I believe when the Assad Regime put a semi-blockade on the area.

The area should be coloured yellow on the map but wait until we see clashes with the rebels before we add them as a combatant. Donbarzinitut (talk) 05:29, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

SDF have withdrawn https://thecradle.co/articles-id/27925 Berniesandals (talk) 16:08, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 30 November 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Maybe it's time to add the SDF, on the side of SAA ofc — 🧀Cheesedealer ^!!!⚟ 11:16, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why of course? 71.236.127.123 (talk) 02:06, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ~/Bunnypranav:<ping> 11:24, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Aleppo International Airport

According to sources it is currently under rebel control 78.172.61.182 (talk) 15:16, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 30 November 2024

It has been proposed in this section that Battle of Aleppo (2024) be renamed and moved to Fall of Aleppo (2024).

A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil.

Please use {{subst:requested move}}. Do not use {{requested move/dated}} directly.

Links: current log • target log • direct move

Battle of Aleppo (2024) → Fall of Aleppo (2024) – Not much of a battle. The significance is Aleppo falling to the rebels as the Syrian Army retreats ᗞᗴᖇᑭᗅᒪᗴᖇᎢ (talk) 19:15, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Are you a regime supporter? It's not a fall, it's a liberation from the criminal Assad Regime. Chxeese (talk) 19:59, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is pretty standard historical practice to talk about the fall of somewhere if no actual battle took place but the place still changed hands during a conflict. 80.62.29.4 (talk) 20:21, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Chxeese, I recommend that you not add your personal opinions to this talk page and not assume that other editors are acting in bad faith. Regards, Nythar (💬-🍀) 20:56, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Might be too early of a call. SDF still holds positions and has clashed with HTS. 2600:1700:5560:6040:69E8:70E6:569D:CF6F (talk) 20:53, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wait For now, until reliable sources start reporting that the city has fallen, then, support. Ecrusized (talk) 20:54, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support: Rebels are firmly in control https://manage.rudaw.net/english/middleeast/syria/301120241 Berniesandals (talk) 21:05, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That source says they control large parts of the city, not the whole city. EkoGraf (talk) 22:45, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The rest of the city is controlled by SDF, though their intentions are not clear The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 04:11, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wait and then support if reliable sources confirm, as per Ecrusized. EkoGraf (talk) 22:45, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Don't change it to fall of aleppo. It's not even confirmed to be fallen. Why is bro yapping about criminal assad regime anyways when both sides are israeli puppets. Yesyesmrcool (talk) 00:01, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Yesyesmrcool Please keep your own personal opinions out of this talk page. As @Nythar said, don’t assume that other editors are acting in bad faith. 71.236.127.123 (talk) 00:26, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also, Wait until reliable sources (newspapers of record, official sources, etc.) confirm fall, then support 71.236.127.123 (talk) 00:27, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wait until it acutally falls then rename the article. Also, there's multiple Battle of Aleppo throughout history so renaming (once it acutally falls) does help with the disambiguation. Rager7 (talk) 02:11, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose for now, I'm still seeing mixed sources as to whether the city has completely fallen or whether the "rebels have captured a majority". Aydo h8^[contribs] 02:12, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose, all RS I've seen so far have used the term battle, and both sides referred to it as a battle. Feeglgeef (talk) 04:46, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose, mainstream reliable sources are all calling it a battle and also as per @Feeglgeef, both sides used the term battle Waleed (talk) 05:02, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose, and Wait for now. ~/Bunnypranav:<ping> 05:21, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose/Wait until the city has been completely captured by the rebels and if "Fall of Aleppo" becomes WP:COMMONNAME among RS's.

Ark Hyena (it/its) 06:26, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose/Wait, City hasn't even been captured yet. InterDoesWiki (talk) 07:22, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Syria, WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, WikiProject International relations, WikiProject Military history, and WikiProject Military history/Post-Cold War task force have been notified of this discussion. Abo Yemen ✉ 11:33, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. "Battle" is more neutral term, because if it's a fall for one part, for others it's a liberation--Noel baran (talk) 11:35, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - SDF is still fighting Braganza (talk) 20:54, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Alternate proposal, "Capture of Aleppo"ᗞᗴᖇᑭᗅᒪᗴᖇᎢ (talk) 21:13, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support "Capture of Aleppo", RS seem to be swaying towards this, and this is a neutral term. Feeglgeef (talk) 21:57, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Capture of City of Aleppo it even be captured oh yeah, as well be completely is towards a liberation of term mainstream period, thank you. Andre Farfan (talk) 01:55, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Capture of Aleppo is the name it should have because the Military Forces and Pro Al Saad Militias hardly fought for the city and its surroundings. 190.33.99.230 (talk) 02:03, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wait for RS to report that Aleppo has fallen. MiasmaEternal☎ 02:39, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wait until sources started reporting that city is fallen. RealStranger43286 (talk) 04:06, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed it's basically fully fallen a small quarter of the city remains in Kurdish hands and even then they will be pushed out soon 202.141.252.153 (talk) 04:58, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wait with tentative Support because it's currently unclear, to me at least, whether it can be said Aleppo has "fallen" or is embattled. Reuters says "Syrian rebels sweep into Aleppo,"^[1] which implies a "fall" is accurate. However, the article also hints at a possible counterattack and explicitly references Russian and Syrian airstrikes,^[2] which tells me it's more of a "battle." My takeaway is that it's too early to say for sure. R. J. Dockery (talk) 16:42, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose: Whilst "fall of city" is a military, journalistic, and historical term, this is primarily a "battle of". Viz. Battle of Saigon (1968), Fall of Saigon, and the two battles and one fall of Kabul here. kencf0618 (talk) 22:43, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per WP:NPOV as whether the city has "fallen" or "been liberated" is entirely subjective depending on whether you support or oppose the rebels or the Assad government. What it objectively has been is captured. DarthCloakedGuy (talk) 07:36, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wait. Magazines like Foreign Policy have already started using the term "Fall of Aleppo" but I'd say we should wait until it's clear that the city is firmly under rebel control and won't be recaptured before this article is renamed134.225.3.222 (talk) 10:17, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's now under full rebel control https://thecradle.co/articles-id/27925 Berniesandals (talk) 16:11, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wait and Support, until the status of the SDF enclave within the city is resolved. Once reliable sources clear that up, there will obviously be full rebel control over the city. — Sundostund mppria ^{(talk / contribs)} 10:54, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Result

Result of the battle should be SNA-HTS victory. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2024/11/30/syria-war-live-rebels-take-control-of-aleppo-igniting-new-phase-of-war 88.236.189.163 (talk) 20:30, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The city hasn't been fully captured yet. Aydo h8^[contribs] 02:15, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Considering fighting between the rebel factions and the SDF has been in the countryside and not urban warfare inside Aleppo, I think it makes sense to say that this battle of Aleppo is over. Who knows if there will be a second one in a few weeks or months. Sentbuddy02 (talk) 12:45, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The goal was to drive out Assad forces which was achieved. However the situation between HTS and SDF is unclear, and the former doesn’t seem to have tried to wrestle control of sheikh maqsood from them The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 15:03, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

the kurds (aka SDF) are not planing to leave so it will be a no brainer to make it SNA-HTS victory Mazra mariwan (talk) 07:26, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This raises an interesting point. Which valid sources declare a battle over? kencf0618 (talk) 22:46, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

SDF on the side of the Syrian government?

What sources are there to confirm that the SDF are in fact helping the Syrian government of Bashar al-Assad and not, instead, a 3rd party to this battle? Eduluzsci (talk) 22:33, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just looking at this Reuters article, it doesn't appear that the SDF or YPG are supporting either side and are instead looking to make their own gains. I dare say the one source that was cited (an SHR article in Arabic) is likely a mistranslation and taken out of context. This Kurdistan24 article says that the SDF supposedly controls the airport in Aleppo. I will likely put them as a third belligerent based on that fact alone. Aydo h8^[contribs] 02:20, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Aydoh8:, @Eduluzsci: The SDF is not in the SAA, but the SDF stated goal is to protect regions from the HTS from their positions in Aleppo and Tel Riffat, not to make any "gains." The SDF is fighting semi-independently from the SAA, but both are fighting against the HTS. The SDF don't gain anything from more territory except more refugees, (1). Des Vallee (talk) 04:07, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Des Vallee The SDF fighting HTS does not make it a belligerent on the side of the SAA though. I believe it to be misleading to group them as co-belligerents when in reality the SDF is also attacking the SAA and aiming to increase its control over the region. Eduluzsci (talk) 04:52, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Des Vallee The SDF fighting HTS does not make it a belligerent on the side of the SAA though. I believe it to be misleading to group them as co-belligerents when in reality the SDF is also attacking the SAA and aiming to increase its control over the region. Eduluzsci (talk) 04:53, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Eduluzsci: The SDF is not fighting the SAA, that's completely made up. The SAA is militarily present over much of the AANES since 2019, although they have almost completely evacuated over the last few years. They are not fighting the SAA, what you just stated was pulled from thin air. The SDF is mobilizing where the SAA is evacuating, IE: filling a power vacuum to fight the HTS, the SDF is fighting with the SAA near Tel-Riffat as an example, and have been doing so since 2018. Des Vallee (talk) 05:25, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

sdf is in the war but on syrian side becuase they are not attacking anyone but HTS Mazra mariwan (talk) 07:24, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

SDF isn't attacking the SAA at all. It's reasonable to believe that the SDF is on the side of the SAA; zero attacks have been made towards the SAA from the SDF (The SDF took over AFTER the SAA withdrew from the city, and no forces were even engaged).

This wouldn't be the first time SAA and SDF have worked together against Turkish forces in the north. EgyptianNationalist (talk) 10:22, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@EgyptianNationalist I apologize, I stand corrected. Eduluzsci (talk) 22:38, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Currently the infoboxes of this article and the broader northwest offensive article differ on this subject. No reason at the moment for there to be a difference between the two. Yeoutie (talk) 09:04, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Duration is wrong.

The battle started yesterday, November 29th, 2024. However the infobox erroneously displays the duration of the battle as being 1 Month and 1 Day, rather than just 1 Day as of today. Mr. Someguy (talk) 00:13, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Right on my end. EST time. 71.236.127.123 (talk) 02:05, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It was fixed about two hours ago. David O. Johnson (talk) 02:17, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Battle already ended yesterday?

The battle ended, yet the article still claims it is ongoing. A few minutes ago the Syrian rebels officially declared a victory in liberating all of Aleppo, and the city was pretty much fully captured by yesterday noon. Hoping this is fixed soon. PLMandarynka (talk) 10:13, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

True. The whole region is under rebel control now. At least according to liveaumap or even the map provided in the aeticel itself. 2A02:8071:5FF2:6380:B1D4:21D0:30C4:EDD (talk) 21:20, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

sdf are still there and not planing to leave 185.181.108.103 (talk) 13:00, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

They left https://thecradle.co/articles-id/27925 Berniesandals (talk) 16:08, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

https://nitter.poast.org/RojavaIC/status/1864031620858081565#m

OFFICIAL SOURCES from the ground claim something very different Cenderabird (talk) 20:03, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reactions

I have already deleted the Reactions sub once and moved the SAA-part into the main part. For the sake of argument, why would someone add this? These are claims made by the belligerents (they didn't advance, we are moving out to bolster our defenses, etc.) and I don't see any reason to put those claims under "Reactions".

Isn't the "Reactions" part normally reserved for government reactions? KajMetz (talk) 10:25, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Where are the pro-government forces inside Aleppo?

Available sources indicate pro-government forces left the city entirely, leaving the city to the rebels and the Kurdish-led SDF, with confirmed skirmished between these two parties. KajMetz (talk) 10:48, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

From what I've seen there is no pro-government forces left in Aleppo, at least since yesterday. Yet, the opposition still hasn't claimed full control over the city. From the latest reports I'm following, I believe they are trying to reach a deal with the Kurdish SDF forces to withdraw and then they will announce the control of the city. Ecrusized (talk) 16:38, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

https://sdf-press.com/en/2024/12/statement-on-recent-developments-in-syria/

source stating very different from your territorial removal in barely 1 day; it will probably end up like "October 2023 Gaza−Israel conflict" Cenderabird (talk) 01:55, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What do you mean "my territorial removal"? SDF commander Mazloum Abdi announced today that SDF was withdrawing from Tel Rifaat to Sheikh Maqsoud. I'm not doing anything on my own instinct, just showing what SOHR and liveuamap are reporting... Ecrusized (talk) 09:24, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

https://www.rudaw.net/english/middleeast/syria/02122024

https://www.devdiscourse.com/article/law-order/3178391-kurdish-ypg-forces-withdraw-from-aleppo-under-new-deal%3famp Cenderabird (talk) 11:51, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

changes were done day before;

it is HIGHLY questionable to picture statements from one side, does it mean forces regroup for civilians to go, only some forces left ...... anyway, maps change sdf remains. 👋😄 Cenderabird (talk) 11:54, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

When control is announced I suggest that the artice should be officially renamed 202.141.252.153 (talk) 05:09, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] ttps://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/aleppo-airport-closed-sources-say-syrian-rebels-reach-heart-city-2024-11-29/

[2] ttps://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/aleppo-airport-closed-sources-say-syrian-rebels-reach-heart-city-2024-11-29/

[1]

[2]