Talk:Airborne wind energy

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Airborne wind energy

Airborne wind energy is energy harvested from items in fluids for secondary effects. The generic phrase should not be restricted to only a subset of interested workers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:E000:1301:1E6D:1508:49F1:995B:1B6B (talk) 15:42, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Airborne Wind Energy rename required

This page should be renamed (moved) to "Airborne Wind Energy" by an autoconfirmed Wikipedia user. Since 2013, thanks to the first monograph "Airborne Wind Energy", the technology is commonly referred to as "AWE" instead of "High Altitude Wind Power" by the scientific and entrepreneurial community. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.205.81.19 (talk) 07:52, 21 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

HAWP is not at all identical to airborne, though overlap occurs.

There is stark distinction between "airborne" and "high altitude" wind power systems. The tether technology is not sufficient. E.G. terrain-enhanced high altitude systems are not airborne. A simple gyro glider is airborne turbine, but such may not be high altitude.

Please note that someone has had an unbalance focus in the airborne article on the Magenn device; such imbalance might be looked into by Wikipedia editors. Joefaust (talk) 02:39, 28 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

But no-one is making any *money* on these devices. A critical analysis as to why this is happening would be most interesting. How is the content of this article supposed to be different from the overlapping Airborne wind turbine, which also talks about various kites, drag ropes, tethered sailplanes, etc. etc. ? Considering how little these devices actually contribute to the world's power supply, there's hardly a need to have two similar articles. --Wtshymanski (talk) 14:39, 28 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Google.org let Makani Power make 15 million dollars for HAWP; over 40 persons made a living on their staff. Magenn got 5 million dollars last year. Windlift just got funded by unnamed military angel investors. KiteLab, Illwaco, WA has sold units. Wikipedia does not require that "money" be made to have a newsworthy significant article. A host of investors showed at their HAWP conference last month. Magenn reportedly has orders for units to be used in Pakistan. Yes, a critical analysis on many aspects of HAWP are justified; the matter would include such factors as price of oil, difficulty to overcome the momentum of the hard-towered turbine default mind-set of "wind power", finalizing robotic programs for kite-steering units, and more. The SkySails company is making money; the HAWP community fully enclose and embrace the mechanical energy captured from wind's kinetic energy and used for pulling huge ships; the conversion to electricity by KitVes to drive ships is a huge project underway; large funds there are paying bills. The KitVes scheme gives functionaly different from the tug ship use of HAWP as the electricity can be use to drive the ships in any direction at any time ... and power other devices onboard. Joefaust (talk) 08:43, 6 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The listed amounts are all rather small compared to what is spent on any wind farm. We must be careful to not give undue emphasis on technologies that are still rapidly developing and not really considered mainstream. Sure, we can describe the various high-altitude turbine schemes, but it is a serious misrepresentation of the facts to make it seem as if these are contributing significant amounts to the world's energy supplies, at least today. We must not minimize the severe engineering and economic problems encountered by all these systems. There is exactly one kite-supplemented cargo ship, and none of the various other electric generating schemes are in operation other than at kilowatt scale prototypes. Magenn has been promising delivery of systems next year for the last three years...this is the definition of vaporware - and they are one of the more credible organizations in the "flying turbine" area. --Wtshymanski (talk) 17:23, 20 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Will watch for opportunities to edit toward the note. Joefaust (talk) 01:17, 5 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

(←) See WP:CRYSTAL. I don't see any problem with covering speculative power sources, just so long as we properly reflect the long odds against them. See Solar power satellite and Fusion power - neither source is likely to deliver one watt to the grid for at least another 20 years and quite possibly much longer than that. Yet we have sizable articles about each one, because there has been a lot of reliably sourced research activity, and the potential yields are theoretically enormous. --Teratornis (talk) 00:15, 18 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Scale

Although large attention is on grid-supplying systems, such scale is certainly not the only game. RATs on high-flying aircraft below as a sector of "High altitude wind power." And Rats come in small and larger sizes with zero intent of supplying energy to the grid. RATs on hang gliders, balloons, UAVs, powered aircraft, etc. Also, hobby toy-scale airborne wind energy devices have been made and have a potential of being with a large following; such growing interest also thought to be providing an education base for those who would participate in designing, building, and using larger systems The model aircraft arena is having a subset of working kites.

Energy sort

The realm of high altitude wind power is shorted if electricity is the only focus. Traction is a separate large sector of HAWP. And hybrid of traction-to-ground-or-water turbine is another sector. Mechanical energy obtained from converting the upperwind energy has a literature-evident potential of conversion to laser or microwave beams sent to receivers for conversion to heat or electricity. Also, direct mechanical energy used to pump water or other fluids for use of the waterhead or processing systems stays in concern of HAWP. Also, upper-air travel of people or products by using upperwinds involves not only soaring sailplanes and the like, but tethered cableways for moving goods and people small and large distances; small distance for play or commerce, e.g. logging by use of kites and kytoons.

List of patents with no explanation of significance of entries

Patents and applications for patents on HAWP

Filed with WIPO

WO 2007027765 Multi-rotor wind turbine supported by continuous central driveshaft by Douglas Spriggs Selsam, filed August 8, 2006.
WO 2009092181 A balloon suspension high altitude wind generator apparatus and a wind turbine generator device by LI, Quandong and LI, Yuexiu of China.
WO 2009092191 A lifting type high altitude wind generator apparatus and a turbine generator device by LI, Quandong. amd LI, Yuexiu of China.
WO/2008/034421 Kite Power Generator by Manfred Franetzki of Germany.^[1]
WO/2008/004261 Wind system for converting energy through a vertical-axis turbine actuated by means of kites and process for producing electric energy through such system by Massimo Ippolito and Franco Taddei of Italy. Italy priority date July 4, 2006. International filing date of June 13, 2007.
WO/2009/143901 Kite type sail with improved line attachment. Dec. 12, 2009 B63H 9/06 PCT/EP2008/056724 SkySails GMBH & CO. KG
WO/2008/101390 A method and a special equipment converting wind energy at high altitude into kinetic energy on the ground. 28.08.2008 F23D 9/00 PCT/CN2008/000255 by Fuli Li. Application language: Chinese.
WO/1992020917 Free Rotor by JACK, Colin, Humphry, Bruce (one man). Colin Jack. Colin Bruce. Colin Bruce Jack. Colin B. Jack. Multi-rotors are treated. Faired tethers are recognized. Turbines integrated at tips of free rotor is instructed. Weather and water flow modifications by working free rotors is described. 1992.
WO 2008/047963 Electric power generation system using hydro turbine tracted by paraglider by Jong Chul Kim. Filed: 19 October 2006.

Filed in USA

US Patent 1495036 Means for creating emergency power for airplane radio generator by Carlton David Palmer, filed Dec 6, 1921.
US Patent 1717552 Airship by Alpin I. Dunn, filed Jan 30, 1926.
US Patent 2368630 High altitude free-flight wind turbines charged batteries by using potential energy to form wind by Stanley Biszak, filed June 3, 1943.
US Patent 3227398 Balloon Tether Cable by Arthur D. Struble, Jr., filed Mar 4, 1965. Streamlined tether.
US Patent 3924827 Apparatus for extracting energy from winds at significant height above the surface by Lambros Lois, filed April 25, 1975.
US Patent 3987987 Self-erecting windmill by Peter R. Payne, Charles McCutchen, filed January 28, 1975.
US Patent 4073516 Wind driven power plant by Alberto Kling, filed June 6, 1975.
US Patent 4076190 Apparatus for extracting energy from winds at significant height above the surface by Lambros Lois, filed March 30, 1976.
US Patent 4084102 Wind driven, high altitude power apparatus by Charles Max Fry, Henry W. Hise, filed March 7, 1978. (terrain enabled)
US Patent 4124182 Wind drive energy system by Arnold Loeb, filed November 14, 1977.
US Patent 4165468 Wind driven, high altitude power apparatus by Charles M. Fry and Henry W. Hise, filed Mar 7, 1978.
US Patent 4166596 Airship power turbine by William J. Mouton, Jr., and David F. Thompson, filed April 28, 1978.
US Patent 4207026 Tethered lighter than air turbine by Oliver J. Kushto, filed Sep 29, 1978.
US Patent 4251040 Wind driven apparatus for power generation by Miles L. Loyd, filed Dec. 11, 1978.
US Patent 4285481 Multiple wind turbine tethered airfoil wind energy conversion system by Lloyd I. Biscomb, filed Dec 7, 1979.
US Patent 4309006 Tethered airfoil wind energy conversion system by Lloyd I. Biscomb, filed Jun 4, 1979.
US Patent 4350897 Lighter than air wind energy conversion system by William R. Benoit, filed Oct 24,1980, and issued: Sep 21, 1982.
US Patent 4450364 Lighter than air wind energy conversion system utilizing a rotating envelope by William R. Benoit, filed March 24, 1982.
US Patent 4470563 Airship-windmill by Gijsbert J. Engelsman, filed Mar 9, 1982. Fan-belt.
US Patent 4486669 Wind generator kite system by Paul F. Pugh, filed November 9, 1981.
US Patent 4491739 Airship-floated wind turbine by William K. Watson, filed Sep 27, 1982.
US Patent 4572962 Apparatus for extracting energy from winds at high altitudes by David H. Shepard, filed April 28, 1982.
US Patent 4659940 Power generation from high altitude winds by David H. Shepard, filed Oct 11, 1985.
US Patent 4917332 Wingtip vortex turbine by James C. Patterson, Jr., filed Oct 28, 1988.
US Patent 5056447 Rein-deer kite by Gaudencio A. Labrador, filed Oct 13, 1988.
US Patent 5150859 Wingtip Turbine by Thomas F. Ransick, filed Oct 11, 1988.
US Patent 5909859 Multi-rotor kite glider by Stephen J. Janicki, filed March 6, 1997.
US Patent 6072245 Wind-driven driving apparatus employing kites by astronaut Wubbo Johannes Ockels, filed Nov 12, 1997.
US Patent 6254034 Tethered aircraft system for gathering energy from wind by Howard G. Carpenter, filed Sep 20, 1999.
US Patent 6327994 Scavenger energy converter system its new applications and its control systems by Gaudencio A. Labrador, filed Dec 23, 1997.
US Patent 6523781 Axial-mode linear wind-turbine by Gary Dean Ragner, filed Aug 29, 2001.
US Patent 6555931 Renewable energy systems using long-stroke open-channel reciprocating engines by John V. Mizzi, filed on Sep 14, 2001.
US Patent 6616402 Serpentine wind turbine by Douglas Spriggs Selsam, filed June 14, 2001.
US Patent 6781254 Windmill kite by Bryan William Roberts, filed Oct 17, 2002.
US Patent 6914345 Power generation by John R Webster, filed June 23, 2003.
US Patent 6925949 Elevated sailing apparatus by Malcolm Phillips, filed Dec 31, 2002.
US Patent 7109598 Precisely controlled flying electric generators III by Bryan William Roberts and David Hammond Shepard, filed Oct 18, 2004.
US Patent 7129596 Hovering wind turbine by Aleandro Soares Macedo, filed Oct 31, 2004.
US Patent 7183663 Precisely controlled flying electric generators by Bryan William Roberts and David Hammond Shepard, filed Aug 17, 2004.
US Patent 7188808 Aerial wind power generation system and method by Gaylord G. Olson, filed Feb 27, 2006.
US Patent 7275719 Wind drive apparatus for an aerial wind power generation system Gaylord G. Olson, filed February 9, 2007.
US Patent 7287481 Launch and retrieval arrangement for an aerodynamic profile element by Stephan Wrang and Stephan Brabeck of Hamburg, Germany, filed: September 29, 2006.
US Patent 7317261 Power generating apparatus by Andrew Martin Rolt, assignee: Rolls-Royce, plc; filed July 25, 2006.
US Patent 7335000 Systems and methods for tethered wind turbines by Frederick D. Ferguson, filed May 3, 2005.
US Patent 7504741 Wind energy plant with a steerable kite by Stephan Wrage, Stephan Brabeck, filed March 30, 2007.
US Patent 7709973 Airborne stabilized wind turbines system by Moshe Meller, Sep 18, 2008.

Applications for patents in process in US

References

^ Kite Power Generator

Image

The image is not in English. Could we translate it or find a new one? Jhunt47 (talk) 01:14, 13 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

National Geographic survey

Too bad we can't use any of these photographs, but they are useful for showing which ideas are being field tested. —Cupco 04:50, 4 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well, it's one concept,anyway. Everybody's got ideas being "field tested" but nobody is making any money at them - measnwhile governments and utilities are handing out buckets of cash to conventional (3 whirling blades on a stick) wind turbines and PV arrays. In spite of huge feed-in tarrifs, is there even *one* flying turbine connected to a grid somewhere? It must be harder than it looks. If only someone would write something about *that* instead of adding to the catalog of wacky flying machines, we'd have something of substance in the article. --Wtshymanski (talk) 13:47, 4 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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By the numbers

So, how do you do an entire page on power & never mention how much it might produce? TREKphiler ^{any time you're ready, Uhura} 01:09, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

HAWP seems to be at an experimental stage, with energy claims not independently verified and therefore not suitable for Wikipedia. If you find any, you can add them. Scalability would be a separate discussion. TGCP (talk) 22:24, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Usable draft

I have recently found an abandoned draft, User:Randerson110/High Altitude Wind Power, that may have useful text and/or information for this article. —Compassionate727 ^(T·C) 02:14, 20 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Kite Power Generator

[1]