Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Square Enix/archive/21

Massive JP magazine source

Original from main WikiProject page

While doing some source scrounging, I found this BlogSpot website once run by someone in Japan who transcribed a lot of information from various Japanese publications about video games from Square; included are the magazine, its issue, and page numbers. These range from their big Final Fantasy titles to more obscure offerings including Another Mind, Live A Live and Soukaigi. There's loads of info on Xenogears, titbits for the earlier SaGa games, and a few on even more obscure games from their library including Racing Lagoon and early development info on games (Famicom version of Final Fantasy IV, PlayOnline system). The info spans the mid-1980s to the early 2000s. This resource shouldn't be missed! --ProtoDrake (talk) 20:51, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

Archived version for easy access, as original blog has become invite only. --ProtoDrake (talk) 10:56, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Reception of Cloud Strife

Some time ago, I kind of felt that Cloud Strife's cultural was too crowded so I tried reorganizing some parts. Do you guys think it should be further organized? I mean, he sure is one of this franchise's most famous characters so his page must be often read by people.Tintor2 (talk) 17:28, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

Looks good to me; and yeah, Wikipedia:WikiProject Square Enix/Popular pages says it gets ~13,000 views a month, rank 48/458. --PresN 20:26, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

Something else. I'm not entirely sure what image should we use sometimes. I mean, I removed Noctis' FFXV in favor of his NT Dissidia image which showed one of his weapons. As a result, I wonder if we should the same with Cloud's Advent Children image since this image from NT shows better his new look and sword discussed in the article. A Then again, the Smash game has quite a striking version of the this version of the character but without using CGI. Nevertheless, the character's appearance in such a big crossover game might quite notable. What do you think?Tintor2 (talk) 21:51, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

I honestly don't know; the Smash one is nice but I don't know if his more modern versions are more representative of the character than something from the original game. --PresN 03:00, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

List of Final Fantasy media update?

Hello. Quite a few months ago, the List of Final Fantasy media, an FL, was tagged with an update template. I think it may need to be looked at and the page might need to be updated. Thoughts? Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 02:53, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

Dragon Quest GT/FT plans

So, I've been thinking about making the Dragon Quest series a good topic or a featured topic. One of my potential interests in helping out is to make the Dragon Quest series article or the Dragon Quest (video game) article an FA and feature them as a WP:TFA on May 27, 2021 (the 35th anniversary of the series). If there's any ideas on how to help out, please let me know here. Thanks, Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 07:27, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

Trials of Mana move discussion

There are two discussions about potentially moving the Trials of Mana article to its Japanese title Seiken Densetsu 3. They can be found at Talk:List of video game remakes and remastered ports#Rename Trials of Mana back to Seiken Densetsu 3 and Talk:Trials of Mana#Requested move 7 March 2020. Input from project members would be very much appreciated. Thanks, Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 10:23, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

a random interview

i have no idea if this interview has ever been used or if it's even useful to this project, but I found this random GameFan interview with Yoshitaka Amano. here. I hope this was a useful find.Blue Pumpkin Pie ^{Chat Contribs} 19:53, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Free image?

I'm not experienced when it comes to free images but I saw this on image on twitter that might be. It might be helpful here to the remake and even Cloud Strife in a similar fashion Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance has one with Raiden (Metal Gear). My cents.Tintor2 (talk) 18:31, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

Sorry if I ask an obvious question, but do we have any reason to believe it's free? I can't see anything in the tweet, image or replies that indicates it is.--Alexandra^IDV 20:01, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

I said I had no idea how free images work. Does the author have to make a note about it accepting it similar to Ryūkotsusei?Tintor2 (talk) 20:06, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

There is no way for it to be free. The primary focus of the image is the advertisement, which is copyrighted- the photographer doesn't have the ability to declare the image free-use. Square Enix would have to. --PresN 23:50, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

I interacted with the man behind the image thanks to twitter and learned a bit about how those images work to upload it on commons thanks to a user from Discord. The person said it's possible to use it but then I learned about how the user needs to an email, giving permission in about seven days.

BTW, since the remake is part of Compilation, I guess the it need to be GA too right due to the good topic? The production seems well organized while the reception might need further improving considering the writing of other Final Fantasy articles. I don't have too much experience with those big RPGs but so far the reception's gameplay could be expanded while more areas of the narrative could be provided.Tintor2 (talk) 23:06, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

It doesn't "need" to be, as the FF7 topic is actually just on the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII, not FF7 as a whole; on the other hand the reason it's not on FF7 as a whole is because the remake and the characters articles aren't GA (Wikipedia:WikiProject Square Enix/Index#Final Fantasy VII (20_items)), so it is holding that back. Hard to GA it, though- right now the article acts like the other parts are going to be separate games, but that's not how we treat any other episodic title, and we have no idea when the other parts of the game are going to come out. --PresN 00:54, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

No More Starts & Non Featured Lists Drive!

Category:Start-Class Square Enix articles

All articles higher than Start class (initial - 72 articles remain): 84.4% complete

All articles higher than Start class (current - 14 articles remain): 97.3% complete

I have started to work on our Start articles, and there aren’t nearly as many as their used to be, so I think they should all either be built up to C class or merged. Who’s with me?!?! @PresN:? @ProtoDrake:? Anyone else who’s still around from now or before? Judgesurreal777 (talk) 01:55, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

@Judgesurreal777: I can try to poke at this, and I'll try to do a class-audit pass like you suggested on my talk page. The two non-featured lists are List of Dragon Quest: The Adventure of Dai chapters and List of Dragon Quest: The Adventure of Dai episodes, which got recreated a month ago (used to be at List of Dragon Quest: Dai no Daibōken chapters/episodes, but was redirected by me in 2015). I don't really see why they exist, to be honest- they're just listings of episode/chapter titles, with no extra information that's not in the parent article, but I don't know enough about the anime/manga space to know if that's normal. The editor who recreated them was the same one who argued with me about it 5 years ago, actually. --PresN 15:41, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the taking a look, just so everyone knows I suggested to PresN that many of our Starts are actually C’s, because C-class is still very much an “in-progress” category like Start is. But our standards here have always been much higher, so I asked him to take a look to see how many of them are actual C class and no longer Starts. As to the lists, all I can say is “Time Flows like a River, and History Repeats...” Secret of Mana. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 15:48, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Just platinum'd FF7 Remake so I should have some more time on my hands. Time is a flat circle. Speaking of non-featured lists, I've been incubating User:Axem Titanium/List of Final Fantasy XIV media in my userspace. Just a heads up! Axem Titanium (talk) 02:43, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

Congratulations on that! And OMG, an identical drive by the same heroes, it’s like Wikiproject Square Enix X-2! The first task is simply to go through all the Starts and see how many are actually Starts. Many are C’s, because they have lots of references but have “content gaps”, which means they are actually C’s not Starts. If anyone has the time, please go through the 70 of them and re-rate any that are actually C’s. Once that’s done, I would like to attack the remaining starts and see if they can become C’s with added references, or if they should be merged or deleted. I’d do the re-rating myself, but I spent a lot of time recently on most of them trying to get them to C standard, and I don’t want to just bless my own work, we need 3rd party evaluation, so please look! Judgesurreal777 (talk) 03:28, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

It’s going great! Back to 48, if we go below 43, that’s the lowest we’ve ever been! I have some thoughts about this last group. Some of them are Square games that are not really in our jurisdiction, since we excluded all the other early Square and Enix games, why have these? (Let’s discuss our general scope philosophy another day!) The bigger idea I would like to suggest, and I would like PresN thoughts and Axem Titanium as well. We have a bunch of Dragon quest articles that are non game, and we have literally nothing in English about them. How about a “Dragon Quest Media” article, so we cover them all in brief and make that a GA at some point? Always better to have one GA than ten starts! Judgesurreal777 (talk) 15:30, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

The white whale is vanquished! Ted Woolsey is the article I got stuck on last improvement drive because there were so many sources to sift through and incorporate. It's been living rent-free in my skull for years. Gonna shift gears a bit and check more reassessments before coming back to improvement. Axem Titanium (talk) 20:52, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Great work! Glad to see we can continue attacking these small articles and making even our weakest article pretty darn good! And everyone please continue reviewing the Start articles, there are still many that are probably C’s! Judgesurreal777 (talk) 21:57, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

It's done! After an incredibly wide-spread improvement effort spearheaded by Judgesurreal777, the last merge discussions were closed and the last straggler Starts were just merged, meaning that for the first time ever, the 459 articles in our scope include no non-feeatured lists and no articles below C-class. Over the course of 2 months, over 72 articles were improved or merged, with many rising to B-class or nominated for GA. This has been an amazing increase in the quality of our articles! --PresN 02:31, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

This process would never have been possible without the tireless efforts of two individuals: @PresN:, my rock and the guardian of the project who never ceased to help me with difficult mergers and fantastic advice, and @ProtoDrake:, a magician who can find development and reception for titles from a generation ago in Japanese magazines. Without them, this would have come right to the edge of victory and stopped, but thanks to them it is done. And on we go to even greater heights! Judgesurreal777 (talk) 03:20, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

Harley-Davidson?

By any chance did any article or book explain what's exactly the first bike from Cloud, designer or marketing? According to the wiki, it's called Hardey Daytona as a reference to Harley-Davidson but whenever I search about it I find nothing. Especially weird, since there is a lot of merchandising involving Cloud's bikes. The one we have material is the Advent Children bike, Fenrir, by Takayuki Takeya. Same with the bike minigame made by CyberConnect2. A friend happens to have an English Ultimania guide but there's no material about its designers just a description.Tintor2 (talk) 20:18, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Final Fantasy Awakening

I've been doing a lot of recent work on the article above, which had become urgent due to its incoming shutdown this month. I'd appreciate another pair of eyes and any edits needed, as I aim to take it to GA. That will make the entire Fabula Nova Crystallis Final Fantasy game subseries able to be nominated for a GT if possible. --ProtoDrake (talk) 21:22, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

The Game Designers Studio

Should The Game Designers Studio be remerged back into Square (video game company)? Seems like it's just a barely notable shell company de facto wholly owned by Square. This is a contested remerge apparently. Axem Titanium (talk) 20:16, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

There is a merge discussion at Talk:The Game Designers Studio#Merge Proposal. Axem Titanium (talk) 20:33, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Gbike?

I noticed the wiki has an entire GBike article filled with primary sources about its gameplay and release time. However, it would need also third party sources such as Famitsu that comment on its potential notability. I could work on it but I don't know if it's possible. I mean I did work in two mobile phone games article related to The King of Fighters but they were more notable since they were released worldwide and thus had a lot of feedback. Any ideas?Tintor2 (talk) 22:59, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

@ProtoDrake: , @PresN: and Judgesurreal777 Tried working on it here but I couldn't find English reviews or reception. Then again one of the sources is in Japanese. In case you find any review Famitsu or others be bold and add it to a sandbox. I won't create an article.Tintor2 (talk) 23:43, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

@Tintor2: if I find anything regarding it I will definitely add it in :) Judgesurreal777 (talk) 00:33, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

@Judgesurreal777: Thanks. Feel free to add anything. I don't want to start the article until everybody here finds it suitable.Tintor2 (talk) 01:31, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks to an old Kotaku interview I expand the making of the game but I'm still not sure about the reception.Tintor2 (talk) 02:17, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

@Tintor2: I've found some sources, mostly Japanese, and incorporated them into your sandbox. I also did some tidying of the prose and phrasing. --ProtoDrake (talk) 08:34, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Created the article. See Final Fantasy VII G-Bike. Thank for the help.Tintor2 (talk) 12:52, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Amazing to see this topic created but with content and references! If it’s complete, has everything you can find and there are no gaps, I think we should up it to B class and nominate it to be a Good Article. It sounds fast, but we once turned around the Chrono series article from not in existent to GA in 48 hours! Judgesurreal777 (talk) 15:28, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Nice. Feel free to nominate it.Tintor2 (talk) 15:33, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

So it’s got every reference you could find, it just needs a copy edit before nomination? Judgesurreal777 (talk) 15:34, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

I don't know. The thing is that while ProtoDrake gave it a revision, I'm not sure myself. Still, I can't request another copyedit since I already requested two in the guild (Ryu (Street Fighter) and Rinoa Heartilly).Tintor2 (talk) 15:37, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Ok I’ll add it to my list of articles to work on :) Judgesurreal777 (talk) 17:40, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Nobuo Uematsu Clean Tag

I referenced every game I could of his, but there are I believe five left that I cannot find any references for. Could someone else double check, and then remove them if there is no proof that he composed music for those games? Judgesurreal777 (talk) 17:33, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Also for Yoko Shimomura I have a final six from her gameography that I cannot source, but some of you super stars can! They are posted on her talk page.Judgesurreal777 (talk) 17:52, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

A clear case for Cloud Strife

@Tintor2: has done amazing work updating and maintaining our final fantasy 7 article and characters, and he has one at a very high level of material and notability, that of Cloud Strife. I think it would be fun for us as a group to help get this into Featured status, like we used to as a project! Judgesurreal777 (talk) 00:35, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Radical Dreamers discussion

There's a discussion taking place at WTVG (Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games#Notability concern regarding Radical Dreamers) regarding this FA in our scope- it's an older FA and has some severe problems, and might be in danger of being merged or delisted if better sourcing can't be found. --PresN 02:08, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Hmmm, let’s ask @ProtoDrake: too, he is good on seeing if there are any Japanese RS if he has time. Sounds like it’s going to go to FAR, and it would be good to see if we as a project support merging it or building it into a modern Featured article based on what materials we do or do not have. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 02:22, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

In case anyone wants to see them, here is what someone found in that discussion so far of potential new references to add

• https://www.wired.com/2008/10/own-the-long-lo/
• https://books.google.rs/books?id=VuA7DQAAQBAJ&pg=PA140&lpg=PA140&dq=%22Radical+Dreamers%22&source=bl&ots=YS5sp94Sys&sig=ACfU3U33YrfjN1Co4Z9iufBtwELxiQDipA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiqvKuO6MDpAhUVShUIHYY0A5c4HhDoATAZegQIHRAB#v=onepage&q=%22Radical%20Dreamers%22&f=false
• https://www.gamezone.de/Radical-Dreamers-Classic-29108/Lesertests/Radical-Dreamers-Die-verlorene-Legende-Leser-Test-von-Azel-999589/

This piece is from Procyon Studio by Mitsuda, an interview with Kato which includes information on the backstory of Radical Dreamers. It includes why the tone was so dark. In addition, the game's Japanese wikipedia page includes some info about not only its cancelled PlayStation port but why it wasn't included as part of Chrono Trigger's DS version and Kato's feelings on revisiting it. --ProtoDrake (talk) 08:28, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Great work! Question @ProtoDrake: and @PresN:, was Radical Dreamers ever actually released? They complained in the forum discussion it has no reception section, but it doesn’t talk much about having ever being released. Are there any reviews in Japan of this game? Judgesurreal777 (talk) 16:21, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

The game was definitely released, but considering it was only available through a satellite-based add-on and not as a physical cartridge, I'm not surprised that there's little in the way of reception, especially from Japan. I checked Famitsu for any reception but they don't even have a listing for the game on their website. Namcokid47 ^(Contribs) 16:26, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Sorry to ask @ProtoDrake:, but if you get the chance, can you add the interview to the article? I put it through Google Translate, and it doesn’t make enough sense, I feel like I’m missing details. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 17:00, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

@Judgesurreal777: I've done some work on the article. And...it was an utter mess. I've replaced and rewritten what I could. I've rewritten the lead, development section, and tidied up in places. Hope this helps. --ProtoDrake (talk) 20:00, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Wow, it’s looking miles better! The other big question or criticism they had was there were no reviews...did any publications ever review the Satellaview games? Does anyone here know if that happened, or who did it if it happened? Judgesurreal777 (talk) 22:22, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

There's no import reviews because you'd need a Satellaview to play it, and it's text heavy so that is another barrier. You'd have to find Japanese print magazine sources to really flesh the article out. The game would have gotten coverage in Famitsu, Dengeki, and other magazines. This isn't easy, and is a bit of a chore, but it's what needs to be done.

Also the Famitsu interview should be cited to the Famitsu issue rather than the fansite. The fansites aren't RS, but Famitsu is. Harizotoh9 (talk) 23:09, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

@Namcokid47: noted on the talk page that there was a spin-off publication from Famitsu called “Satella Tsuhin” that reviewed and covered Satellaview games. How would we go about finding this magazine? Judgesurreal777 (talk) 18:55, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

@Judgesurreal777: Satella Tsuhin is exactly the sort of publication you'd want to find. You're going to either have to purchase copies or ask someone who has them. Yes that's a chore, but articles are built upon sources and you need good sources and you'll have to rely upon Japanese ones since it didn't get any Western import reviews. Harizotoh9 (talk) 23:16, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

Dragon Quest Media

We have at least seven Start articles that have been starts for over a decade related to Dragon Quest TV shows, manga, and anime. We have had no luck in sourcing anything in English as it was all released almost solely in Japan. I have long felt, and now wish to get feedback, on a proposal to create a Dragon Quest Media article to merge them together. Similar to what we did with the Music articles long ago, better to have one GA “Music of Final fantasy something” than 12 poorly sourced articles about albums. I propose we do the same with this set of articles. If they end up warranting their own article at some point, we can simply put a link to the main article from this new “mother” article. Thoughts? Judgesurreal777 (talk) 18:52, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

(Copying post from my talk page): I'm torn. On one hand, it's really an obvious eyesore on the index page- a pack of five Start articles + 2 junky lists. On the other, it is a little unorthodox to merge five distinct manga/anime series together just because they're based on the same video game franchise- WP:ANIME seems to have it's own sprawling norms, which is why I haven't re-merged the two lists even though they add literally nothing beside chapter/episode titles. I guess I'm in favor- it doesn't seem like, after a decade of no real improvement, anyone is going to swoop down and write good articles on a bunch of mediocre obscure series, but it does seem like it would take a lot of work to make the resulting article be a cohesive whole, since you'd have to tie them together in how they're related beyond having Dragon Quest in the names. --PresN 02:31, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

And if we don’t merge here, do we merge to somewhere else? The List of Dragon Quest media article, the main Dragon Quest article? I’d love to collect thoughts, because like PresN I am not sure what the right path is to zero Start class articles. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 02:48, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

Whoa, I turn around and most of the Starts are gone! Great work Judgesurreal! Give me a bit to tackle these last few DQ articles. I might be able to dredge up some sources. Axem Titanium (talk) 00:58, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

Potential for Cecil Harvey?

It's been long since I played FFIV but I remember created its character list thanks to some sources provided by staff, the reviews for the original game and the remake. I never played the sequel sadly so I don't remember if Cecil appeared too much there. User Abryn found quite a lot of sources for the character so I guess it might be probably he can pass notability. Then again, I barely remember the game so I just wanted remind this.Tintor2 (talk) 21:41, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

Draft it up like you did G-Bike, that way we can all see how close it is. He’s one of my all time favorite heroes, so I bet he could have an article. Let’s only create it in the article space once we know for sure. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 22:02, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

Star Ocean (series article)

Our last article with two different types of Cleanup tags (not counting merge tags which will be done soon). It’s also a start from our drive to no starts, and has been tagged for 13 years. Any help cleaning this up to at least get the tags off would be super helpful, because even though we are now at the highest article count ever, and the lowest level of stubs/starts/lists ever, and the smallest number of cleanup tags articles ever, there are a few more to go before we hit zero. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 14:10, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Cleanup Zero

Besides merge tags which won’t take long, there are no cleanup tags for the first time ever. Congratulations to everyone who made this possible, especially to long time Contributors @PresN: and @ProtoDrake: for helping achieve what I have thought was impossible. I think we are probably the only mid sized wiki project that has achieved anything like it! Let’s try to stay at cleanup Zero if we can! Also the mergers are to facilitate that in about a week or two, we will be at Stub/List/Start Zero, and every article we have will be at least a C! Again, three cheers to all who made it possible! Judgesurreal777 (talk) 12:22, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

Great job, folks! I'm so impressed. Axem Titanium (talk) 00:42, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

8 Good Articles till Majority GA

That’s right! Only 14 articles (not factoring in mergers which may make the goal easier) till we have over half our articles at Good Article status or higher. Another long time dream coming closer now, so grab yourself an article, shine it up, and help us get over the top! Judgesurreal777 (talk) 14:28, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Can I get a copyeditor to look at Stormblood? It's basically ready for GAN except I have to rewrite the entire Plot section (someone had written it for me in way too much detail while I was working on all the other sections and I didn't have the energy at the time to fix it). Axem Titanium (talk) 16:58, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Gave it a passthrough, Axem Titanium. --PresN 19:15, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Thanks!! Axem Titanium (talk) 06:22, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

Ooh, I wanna partake. Maybe I'll bring a few character articles to GAN. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 17:17, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Please Do!!! Everyone grab an article, and let’s achieve a historic first. We should give out barnstars for those who participate! Judgesurreal777 (talk) 17:40, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

All right, in that case I'll be working on Garnet Til Alexandros XVII, Rydia, Beatrix, Freya Crescent, and Flea. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 18:51, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

I'm already partaking, sort of. Already got Final Fantasy Awakening at GAN. Doing Unlimited Saga and Live A Live in my sandbox, and probably the main SaGa article itself later. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ProtoDrake (talk • contribs)

Also, I will exchange reviews for reviews, so that we don't overburden the GAN page. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 18:57, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Also, is there any source that would speak to who designed individual characters in FF9? I see in the Characters article, it specifies three final artists, but would it be appropriate to cite them as the artists who created the character's final design, or should that be left alone? - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 21:25, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

One passed GA, article count stable, so 13 to go! Judgesurreal777 (talk) 19:41, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

Twelve to go, with Awakening passing. --ProtoDrake (talk) 21:27, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

I do have Garnet and Flea up if you wanna be a pal with those. ;D - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 20:27, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

I would trade but I first have to get Terra and Rinoa copyedited before I do anything else! Judgesurreal777 (talk) 21:44, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

GA Majority Achieved!

• Final Fantasy: All the Bravest
• Garnet Til Alexandros XVII
• Recurring elements in the Final Fantasy series
• Final Fantasy XIV: Stormblood
• Unlimited SaGa
• Terra Branford
• Rikku
• Flea (Chrono Trigger)

So we need one more, anyone got any others cooking, or have some in mind? Judgesurreal777 (talk) 02:46, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

I'll be working on Beatrix, Freya, and Rydia still. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 15:57, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

Won't it be exciting when 100% of articles are GA or better? - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 02:10, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

It will certainly make for informative reading! Judgesurreal777 (talk) 02:15, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

Just want to warn you, by the way, that I'm an assgoblin who is absolutely going to find an article to create in the project so that you need to nominate one more, ahaha. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 02:18, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

As long as any new articles are solid C-class or better, bring it on! We'll just have to keep improving things! --PresN 02:32, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

I invite new articles once we create the GA majority. It will be up to us to maintain all the gains we have achieved, like all Cs or above, no cleanup tags, and GA and above majority. Many new articles I think are coming in the next six months, and we must keep a tight ship! I know you asked for none, but if I may make a suggestion, development, or “concept and creation” in a character article is usually the key. If it exists, an article can become a GA. If not, it probably shouldn’t be created and should reside in a parent article or a “characters of” article. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 04:00, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

Yo, I want to bring Tomomi Kobayashi to GAN, but have no experience with individuals. Could anyone offer assistance? - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 18:19, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

I’d honestly love to get some advice on that as well. @PresN:? Maybe he has advice. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 19:03, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

It's been a long time since I did a biography; closest one is maybe Kellee Santiago from 2011? (which is looking a little out of date...) Basically just scrape as many interviews as you can to pull together the shape of what they've done in their life/career, and anything you can find about their own opinions on stuff. It's hard with these kind of figures, where they're notable for doing things but not notable enough for big features on their life or thoughts. --PresN 02:07, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

Ok! Two of our 12 passed GA, 10 to go! I’m keeping the number as twelve because it’s good to overshoot just a bit, we don’t want to have the very next new article take us back under :) But we need two more articles for our nomination list, anyone have one or two ready? Judgesurreal777 (talk) 17:57, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

I've still got a list of sources to sift through but I can nominate Stormblood now that the plot is rewritten. Axem Titanium (talk) 19:57, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

And I added a 12th, but everyone keep working if you have more! We are close to 100 Final Fantasy Good Articles and 200 total Square Enix Good Articles! Judgesurreal777 (talk) 02:30, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

Square Enix Europe defunct as a publisher?

Kind of a long shot, but: we have a list I polished up in 2016, List of Square Enix Europe games, which chronicles all of the games published by Square Enix Europe, aka what used to be Eidos before it was bought in 2009. For a while games would be listed as being published by "Square Enix Europe", but by 2016 you'd have to check the press releases to see if the game was copyrighted by "Square Enix, Ltd." vs the american/japanese companies. As far as I can tell, however, even that's quietly stopped? Shadow of the Tomb Raider (2018) has it, but Marvel's Avengers (2020) doesn't despite being developed by subsidiaries Crystal Dynamics and Eidos Montréal, and originally announced as being by "Square Enix Europe" ([1]). With IO Interactive split away and the Champ Man series dead, that's pretty much the only developers under that "brand" they have left. So my question is, does anyone remember seeing any sort of announcement about SEE no long publishing games themselves, and now just being SE's Europe distribution branch? --PresN 15:38, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

I don't recall any such announcement. It might have been in the meeting notes to SE shareholder annual meetings? I think they release an english pdf summary of those every year. Maybe that makes the List of SE Europe games relatively stable then? Axem Titanium (talk) 06:24, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

Months later: turns out no, SEE and SE North America distribution have been merged (in terms of business units, not legal entities) into Square Enix External Studios, which handles all of the publishing for non-Japanese (and possibly all non-SE-developed? That's not clear.) games, including running the Square Enix Collective indie brand. Not sure about renaming the list yet. --PresN 02:51, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

The Age of C Begins!

WikiDragons roar! All our articles are free of cleanup tags and are C class or above! To my knowledge, no project has ever accomplished this, and your work and dedication has created a shining jewel amidst our Wikipedia brethren. We have a phrase at Wikipedia: “We Make the Internet Not Suck”. And that is true! But I have always felt that “Wikiproject Square Enix makes Wikipedia Not Suck” by leading the way. Three cheers for us all! Judgesurreal777 (talk) 02:48, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

Break out the materia cocktails! We did it! Axem Titanium (talk) 06:26, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

C’s can be merged

I proposed a merger for Kingdom Hearts Mobile, mostly because it has little development and reception and we can’t seem to find anymore at present. Please chime in on whether it should be merged to the main Kingdom Hearts article or not on the articles talk page! Judgesurreal777 (talk) 18:26, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

Support its such a shame, but i think webbrowser and mobile games have been such a hassle to handle.Blue Pumpkin Pie ^{Chat Contribs} 22:10, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Seriously, they always get some attention, but almost never enough to make a GA out of them, but then they become almost too big or notable to merge. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 17:55, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

If anyone hasn’t voiced their opinion yet, please do so, it’d be good to know if there can be consensus or not on this merge :) Thank you! Judgesurreal777 (talk) 04:03, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Midgar article

I think this is an article that could work out, and I would certainly like to see more video game area articles. Sadly, I'm not familiar with FF7 enough to do it myself, so I'm working on other area articles. Anyone willing/able to try this out? - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 19:25, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

I doubt there's enough sources to make anything like that, never mind its notability. It might end up being something like the article for Cindy Aurum; kinda enough to exist, but does anyone care outside a series-dedicated wikia? --ProtoDrake (talk) 21:17, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

I’m not super familiar with FF7, but doing a “World of Final Fantasy VII” might be better, include every location in the game. Even then, best to draft it out and see if it can get to GA. If it can’t get there now with all the compilations and the remake, it never will. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 22:46, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

My gut feeling is that there's enough to make a good World of 7 article now given Remake but I don't have the bandwidth to work on it right now. Axem Titanium (talk) 19:56, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Well, I guess I'll take up Midgar then, prove all y'all wrong. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 21:41, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Honestly considering how popular is FFVII. I'm surprised there is no One-Winged Angel article especially due to its multiple remixes Compilation an Kingdom Hearts.Tintor2 (talk) 21:43, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Same. You also inspired me to try making a Dancing Mad article. :v - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 21:52, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

I’d strongly recommend you do a “World of Final Fantasy VII” article, I bet at this point notability wouldn’t be an issue. I think you’d have a lot of problems with Midgar with notability and reliable sourcing. If the world one worked, and then you have “too much” found for Midgar, the split it out. Just a suggestion. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 22:12, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

How dare you tell me what to do. :| (kidding.) - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 22:16, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

I also agree that making a World of Final Fantasy VII is a good idea to make first. I dont have any doubt Midgar can be spun-out onto its own article. But it seems wrong to make a Midgar article first before making a World of FF7 article.Blue Pumpkin Pie ^{Chat Contribs} 22:24, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Perhaps, but I just haven't the interest in making an article about such a topic. I prefer to make narrow articles. Like Faris instead of Characters of Final Fantasy V, for instance. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 22:36, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

I'm the same way. FOr now, there used to be an article for the world of FF7 shown here. If anyone thinks its worth reviving. and i'm not against a Midgar article. so if both can exist at the same time, i'm ok.Blue Pumpkin Pie ^{Chat Contribs} 01:02, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

Wow, that actually is a great outline of what that article could be. It would need now what it never had then, all the details on how it was created and designed, it’s influences, and what reviewers and fans thought about it. But after a decade we probably would have enough for that this time... Judgesurreal777 (talk) 02:43, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

If we're going to be using it as a base, we should preserve the edit history. I draftified it at Draft:Gaia (Final Fantasy VII) and stuck some empty sections in. Axem Titanium (talk) 07:45, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

I'm gathering Midgar sources here. Will be expanded over time (it's a lot of time to sort through all the sources lol), and some of these may be dropped after further analysis of them. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 07:54, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

Be bold in times of Trials

Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests/Trials of Mana Trials of Mana for Featured Article of the Day

I proposed it, @PresN:, @ProtoDrake:. I hope I did it right. With the remake coming out, and you guys continuing to expand the article and keep it in tip top shape, I think it should be the Featured Article of the day soon. Vote for it! Judgesurreal777 (talk) 03:35, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Links in Template:Kingdom Hearts chronology

I recently removed some links in Template:Kingdom Hearts chronology on the grounds that they were 1) redirects, not articles, 2) links to sections of articles that don't discuss their place in the chronology, or 3) their place in the chronology is unsourced (or some combination of all three). Favre1fan93 reverted me. I think my main issue here philosophically is why are we linking to things on this template in the first place? We want to show the fictional chronological relationship between games in this series. The position of Back Cover in relation to Kingdom Hearts χ is unclear from the ref and also it's just a movie, not a game. The three subgames within Kingdom Hearts χ all fall chronologically at the beginning of the series, so I don't see why we need to pipelink the names of the subgames when "Kingdom Hearts χ" will suffice. A Fragmentary Passage's position in the chronology is unclear as well, since it takes place an indeterminate amount of time after Birth by Sleep and also takes place at multiple time points within the series, so I don't think it makes sense to place it definitively anywhere on the template, especially if the sources fail to definitively place it too. Melody of Memory is an unreleased game that is speculated to take place after KH3 but all sources saying such are speculation, not proof, so it should be left off for now. Axem Titanium (talk) 19:19, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

I agree with Axem, it looks cool, but I do not believe based on what I know of the Kingdom Hearts chronology we can visualize it with this level of precision. We should not use this for now until we have more certainty how precisely these games connect. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 19:22, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

If the issue is linking, then we can make the template simply be plain text. As for order, per the image you can see in this article, it supports the order we've had in the template and covers each individual entry (Kingdom Hearts Back Cover is not the same as Kingdom Hearts X/ Unchained (Union) X so that needs to be a separate entry). So the order per our template and that image is: Back Cover, Unchained/Union X (Unchained X cover what was X and was renamed to Union X hence this formatting), Dark Road, Birth By Sleep, Fragmentary Passage (the main story outside the framing scenes is set right after BBS and overlaps the start of KH 1), and then we're the same as we have been. As for Melody of Memory, I'm fine with it being kept off until more is known, but the trailer and sources confirm it is showing more of Kairi's story after KH 3, so it's placement is not incorrect. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 22:20, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

The image in that article is cited to a random YouTuber, not an official KH/SE source. I think in the interest of not being too bogged down by in-universe details, it's advantageous to compress X Back Cover, Unchained X, Union X, and Dark Road into one single link to Kingdom Hearts X, since they all use that name as an umbrella already. Axem Titanium (talk) 22:52, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Sure. So it would be X, Birth By Sleep, Fragmentary Passage, then as is. I don't know if this would work in a chronology template, but a {{efn}} tag could be used next to X, with the note saying "Including Back Cover, X, Unchained/Union X and Dark Road. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:53, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

I don't think that would work since the note needs to be defined inside the article. Remember that the purpose of navigation templates is navigation between articles. Getting too specific/detailed/in the weeds interferes with this purpose. Axem Titanium (talk) 19:42, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

The {{notelist}} template can be included in the template and contained to it so it can work. You can see what it can look like here. I don't think including the specific pieces of the series that are part of the chronology would be considered "in the weeds", but helpful for readers to quickly see without going to the X article. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:46, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Ok I see what you're suggesting. I still don't think that supports the notion that navigation templates are for navigation. It also looks a little messy and unprofessional IMO. Axem Titanium (talk) 16:10, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

I understood your reasoning for reducing the contents to simply Kingdom Hearts X, but Back Cover, Union X and Dark Road are parts of the series that fit into the chronology, and not mentioning them seems like a detriment to readers when viewing the navigation in my opinion because you can't gain from just the X link that those other pieces are part of it. I've made another formatting change here that I think works, but would welcome other ideas to include this info. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 19:11, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

It could also be converted to {{Sidebar with collapsible lists}} so the "X" content could be included and collapsed by default. I actually like that option a bit more than what I just did. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 19:17, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

My response to this is that readers can just click on the link to X and discover that it has 3 "subgames" inside it (their names are even helpfully bolded in the lead of that article). Out of context, these are just random names that don't lead to articles. Articles are where content belongs. Navigation templates are for navigation. Axem Titanium (talk) 02:06, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Well Boyohboy231 added both Dark Road and Melody of Memory to the table. Disregarding MoM, I still feel the X games need mention. They still would serve the readers, and I wouldn't necessarily look at this as a "navigation" template because I don't feel that's it's primary purpose. Yes, article links exist, but in my eyes it is more of a quick visualizer of the chronology order for the series. The navigation is just a bonus, so it wouldn't be odd to have non-linked entries. I still think the collapsible sidebar template would serve the content well to satisfy what you visually feel should exist, while including the content I feel should exist. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 02:08, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Let me try to express my point in a different way. Think of the hypothetical reader who most likely knows a little about KH but definitely not a lot. If we included a note in the template next to KHX that says "contains Union X, Unchained X, and Dark Road", with or without a link, what does that actually accomplish? They will most likely not understand what that sentence means because there's no context for it. Explaining it in more detail in the template would only bloat the template. The template note that one game contains three subgames in it is paradoxically only understandable by people who already know what it means. You're confusing people who don't get it yet and you're not teaching anything new to people who already do understand. That's why I say that articles are for content because that's where you actually have to space to explain things instead of giving people a contextless factoid. Axem Titanium (talk) 20:23, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Majority GA or Better

It has been done. A milestone I never really thought would happen, but over the years and in wonderful bursts like this one it came to be! A majority of articles are GA, FA, or FL, and there are no non-featured lists, Stubs, or Starts, all are C-class or better! I will be issuing Barnstars for all nominations and reviewers as part of this campaign. I do not believe anyone has ever accomplished what has been done, and it would not have been possible without, in no particular order, @ProtoDrake:, @PresN:, @Axem Titanium:, @Abryn:, @Tintor2:, and @Blue Pumpkin Pie:. We must also recognized our past heroes as well, such as @Deckiller:, @Kung Fu Man:, @Sjones23:, @Tom Morris:, @Ost316:, @Iftekharahmed96:, User Lucia Black (RIP), @Ryu Kaze:, and @Kariteh:, and all our members. Amazing accomplishment, one and all! Judgesurreal777 (talk) 22:18, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Everyone pat yourselves on the back and then get back to work! :3 Congratulations! Axem Titanium (talk) 23:43, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

P.S. I would encourage anyone who recently passed a GA @Judgesurreal777, ProtoDrake, Abryn, and Blue Pumpkin Pie: to nominate them for a WP:DYK (newly passed GAs are eligible for nomination within 7 days). It's a cute little process that doesn't take too much work and can get your article some nice visibility on the Main Page. Axem Titanium (talk) 06:10, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

100 Final Fantasy Good Articles/200 Square Enix Good Articles

There 93 96 Final Fantasy GAs, so we need 4 more! :)

1) Rinoa Heartilly -

2) Characters of Final Fantasy XV -

3) Monster of the Deep: Final Fantasy XV -

1) Noctis Lucis Caelum - Under Review

2) Characters of the Final Fantasy VII series - Needs Reviewer

3) Final Fantasy VII Remake - Needs Reviewer

4) Final Fantasy XIV: Shadowbringers - Needs Reviewer for GAN and DYK!

There are 183 192 Square Enix GAs in total, so once we have our 4 Final Fantasy GAs, we will still need 4 more!

1) Ted Woolsey -

2) Oninaki -

3) Live a Live -

4) Yasumi Matsuno -

5) Isamu Kamikokuryo -

6) Romancing SaGa -

1) Yoichi Wada - Under Review

2) Kingdom Hearts III - Needs Review

3)

4)

WELL?? Fill it in with nominations! :) The Drive has ended, all Hail the New Drive! :) Judgesurreal777 (talk) 03:39, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Once I'm done working on level articles, I'll try to get Beatrix, Freya, and Rydia promoted. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 06:13, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

There is also Octopath Traveler and Dissidia NT that can be improved. I'll see if i can work on these to getting them upto GA-level. i'm a slow editor though, so if anyone wants to assist, let me know.Blue Pumpkin Pie ^{Chat Contribs} 16:55, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

Yes @Blue Pumpkin Pie: please do that, finding those six Final Fantasy articles that aren’t already GA+ is more challenging than the non Final Fantasy ones. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 18:15, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

Doing good! But we still need 5 Final Fantasy GA noms and 5 non-FF Square Enix GA’s. Don’t be shy, nominate them! :) Judgesurreal777 (talk) 04:37, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

My thoughts for the last GA noms are these, let me know what you think:

Dissidia Final Fantasy NT

World of Final Fantasy

And then needs one more:

Octopath Traveler?

Thoughts? Anyone want to nominate, or say they will nominate them at some point? I added two of mine! Judgesurreal777 (talk) 17:19, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

I added Shadowbringers but it also needs a DYK review soon! I want to get it approved for August 11 which is when the next patch comes out. Axem Titanium (talk) 02:25, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

Rinoa and Angelo

I just got Rinoa Heartilly through GA review, but I read that in the Final Fantasy VIII Ultimania book there is info on her and her dog Angelo. Do any among us own any of those books? I see many references in our projects to those books, so someone must, right? I’d love that info to beef out the article. Even though it just became a GA, an article could always be better, right? CC: @PresN: @ProtoDrake: Judgesurreal777 (talk) 16:26, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

@Judgesurreal777: According to this Angelo was modeled after a Black Tri Australian Shepherd that one of Tetsuya Nomura's coworkers owned. I know a person who owns the English book so I'll ask her for a proper citation.Tintor2 (talk) 23:29, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Sorry. The person claims the English book doesn't have that.Tintor2 (talk) 00:19, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

The only English language Ultimanias that I'm aware of are the three volume 25th anniversary Ultimanias put out by Dark Horse. These are different from the original Ultimania for FFVIII. I have the English 25th anniversary Ultimanias by the way, if people want me to pull quotes/info from them. Axem Titanium (talk) 04:50, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, if there is anything bearing on this matter could we pull quotes? Judgesurreal777 (talk) 15:28, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

If you can verify that the info at that fansite is a direct translation from the VIII Ultimania, then you can use it in the article. Axem Titanium (talk) 20:20, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

How would I do that, email them? I haven’t done something like that before! Judgesurreal777 (talk) 01:54, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

Here's the page from the original FF8 Ultimania book: [2]. If you know of anyone who can do a quick translation, that would verify it and you can cite Ultimania directly. If it's not the right passage (it doesn't look promising to me but I can't be certain), then I would email the owner of the website to ask where they got the info from. Axem Titanium (talk) 19:49, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

Sigh... it looks right, but I am not that far along in my Duolingo for Japanese... Does anyone here read Japanese, or do we have any Wikipedians from other projects who do? It bet it’s the right one... Judgesurreal777 (talk) 19:57, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

If it turns out to be a correct source for the translation, then you can use the lay-url parameter of cite book (cite web also has this parameter) to link to the rinoa.nu translation. Just to save readers from having to search for the translation themselves. Axem Titanium (talk) 20:08, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

Well, I did a google translate on it, and it seems to be in universe stuff, no design or behind the scenes stuff. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 20:13, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

@Judgesurreal777: Have you tried googling the Japanese characters in Google, find an appropiate source and then trying Google translate? At least that's what I did with some parts from Haseo. In Rinoa's case, while her original game might be a bit dated in comparison to Haseo's, there might a possiblilty to find the staff members talking about her design in Dissidia NT.Tintor2 (talk) 21:16, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

I did, I didn’t find results that matched. I bet it’s out there somewhere, but maybe it’ll pop up someday. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 02:23, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Can we use the VII RE Ultimania reports?

A while ago I added to some FFVII characters, info about their characterization from the VII RE Ultimania guidebook, including the Remake article itself too. However, the information about Aerith's take was removed due to the translator not being a reliable source. However, now that I see, some sites focused on Japanaese gaming still used that translation liked Gematsu to make articles in regards to the remake. The person who originally translated all of this has happens to be on Twitter and today I sent a message in regards to the pages of the book containing the interview but still hasn't responded. The user also has a tumblr account but I don't know how to use that. This might be too important if there are plans to turn VII's remake into a GA. Cheers.Tintor2 (talk) 22:37, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Can you point to a diff that you're talking about? Gematsu is generally considered reliable. Axem Titanium (talk) 02:13, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Gematsu is using a twitter users rather than the actual book as a source. Other examples include reference 46 of the remake article. I have no knowledge of the book's specific pages which contain the big interview so far. Same with reference 50 of Cloud Strife.Tintor2 (talk) 02:36, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

I think a ref like that is fine for now but I would mark it in some way to indicate that it needs to be fixed later when we can figure out page numbers and better citation information. As with my suggestion above, I recommend that you use the cite book template to ref the book directly, but link to an unofficial translation using the lay-url parameter. Axem Titanium (talk) 07:22, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

What do People see?

If we look at the top 31 articles in terms of page views, these articles all get over a thousand views a a day! Pretty cool! But we do have, among those 31, 5 articles, including our number one article, are B’s!

1) Final Fantasy VII Remake - 8,819 Views a Day

7) Characters of the Final Fantasy VII series - 2,069 Views a Day

10) Square Enix - 1,807 Views a Day

12) Kingdom Hearts III - 1,769 Views a Day

23) Dragon Quest XI - 1,401 Views a Day

These would be fantastic to get these at least to Good Article Status, who minds or built these articles? It should be a priority I think to see if anyone is interested in helping get one of these to be GA, we want 200 GA’s and our top articles to be GA as well as that’s what people are seeing of our work :) Any volunteers? :) Judgesurreal777 (talk) 16:09, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

The remake seems to be in well state but I wonder if some parts of the prose including reception needs some copyedit.Tintor2 (talk) 16:15, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

No nominated article for either GA or FA is ever perfect, there’s always something that could be better, and often even after that too! But to achieve great things, we must sometimes be bold! And if issues are present, I’m sure a reviewer will explain what they want. You could even ask for help if it gets to difficult, we didn’t always “Superman” every article ourselves, we worked together on GA’s and FA’s to help them reach new levels. And the articles listed are in a very high state of completion I believe, though others may differ. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 16:29, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

I'll see if I can do something to improve it but I really don't see myself as a capable nominator for such a big article.Tintor2 (talk) 19:30, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Well see if there is one you could add, the Good Article drive continues if you want to choose an article! :) Judgesurreal777 (talk) 19:34, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Still, there is something I wanna ask before editing more. What you guys think how should remake's reception section be organized? So far, there are three paragraphs with one focused on gameplay, next linearity and then story. Does this look okay, or do you suggest reorganizing it?Tintor2 (talk) 19:51, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

I think in general reception should start with the broad, and the present the pros and cons of each issue;

So like this:

• Reception
• Overall + & -
• Plot + & -
• Gameplay + & -
• Etc

Personally I have grown fond of this style as you don’t have to hunt the review for thoughts on a topic like a usually “here’s people that liked it” and then a paragraph of “here’s people that didn’t”. It looks like the article needs a bit or reorganization? Judgesurreal777 (talk) 22:36, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

I see. I was kinda using FF13 as a basis so for now I was using

• Gameplay
• Linearity
• Plot/cast

Surprisingly there isn't too much about the actors.Tintor2 (talk) 22:46, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

I usually stick to the same process. I don't know if linearity has continued to be a major factor in reviews anymore, but I try to take it a step further. I think FF13 was just a special case where it was the most linear final fantasy game to date. I personally recommend with the Gameplay, Plot, and Music (if its a key factor in the review). I also try to group common opinions together. for example, if there are 5 reviews loved the gameplay but 3 reviewers found criticism on a certain aspect of it, that's still worthy to group together in my humble opinion.Blue Pumpkin Pie ^{Chat Contribs} 22:52, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Revised. Divided reception in 1 (overall), 2 (plot) 3, (gameplay) and 4 (linearity). From what I read in most reviews is that the critics were more mixed to the last point. Feel free to edit it. Don't know exactly what to do. I guess it could help by adding more generalization or other areas.Tintor2 (talk) 23:11, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

I think it’s good to go, only thing left is to make sure all the reference todos on the talk page are used. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 23:22, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Nice. Still, take into account I'm not a native English speaker so the prose might need some touches.Tintor2 (talk) 00:20, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

I will help you if you decide to nominate it, and the best way to learn is to see what you did correctly and incorrectly. We are a team! Judgesurreal777 (talk) 17:11, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

I still don't see me capable of nominating such as big article so I'm not sure about it. If any of you guys is interested be bold. I might have made GAs in the past but most of them are quite smaller.Tintor2 (talk) 20:37, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

Well I’d ask for permission to do it myself, but before we even do that we would have to clear out the reference todo list on the talk page anyway. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 21:03, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

By the way, do you guys think the gameplay image should be changed? It looks a bit awkward which might have to do the fact that it was uploaded in 2019.Tintor2 (talk) 21:59, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

@Judgesurreal777: I think I added most of those sources except the one in Japanese. In regards to the narrative's changes I added them to premise but I don't know if they should be moved to another section instead. I would add the changes too to the lead, but the biggest changes of the remake only are explored in the last chapter.Tintor2 (talk) 22:53, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

Could you remove the ones you used? Then maybe I can look at the remaining ones. :) Judgesurreal777 (talk) 23:10, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

Done.Tintor2 (talk) 00:55, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Excellent! Just need to do the last ones as well on that list, I’ll see if I get a chance to look at them, I’m in the middle of working on my own GA Review as well. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 03:39, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Free pictures for biographies?

Can anyone think of places where we might find free use headshots for some of our biographies? In particular, I'm looking for Yasumi Matsuno, Yoko Taro, Tetsuya Nomura, and Masayoshi Soken to help illustrate other articles but lots of WPSE biographies are missing them. I checked the GDC Flickr account which is where we usually get a lot of free pictures, but no dice for them. Axem Titanium (talk) 11:48, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

Creation of article: Final Fantasy XIV: Shadowbringers

Hello! I was wondering if there was any interest in creating a new article for the current expansion of Final Fantasy XIV: Shadowbringers? NightFire19 (talk) 17:05, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

@Axem Titanium: is drafting one as we speak, I would ask him about it. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 23:33, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

Yes, I've got about 30 sources to incorporate and then it'll be ready for primetime. I hope to finish this weekend. Axem Titanium (talk) 02:11, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

It's live! Final Fantasy XIV: Shadowbringers Axem Titanium (talk) 14:59, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

Tagged as B and added to the index page; looks like it needs its references puffed up. --PresN 15:03, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

Done. Took longer than I thought it would. Axem Titanium (talk) 02:30, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

Article: Final Fantasy XV: The Dawn of the Future

I want to raise a question here. A little time ago, I created an article for the novel Final Fantasy XV: The Dawn of the Future. I feel this was a mistake on my part, as it's received little to no publicity, so as it stands it isn't sustainable. I turned it into a redirect and merged relevant info back into the XV dev article, but Axem Titanium just restored the article.

I think this article needs discussion as to its relevance and chance of remaining sustainable. --ProtoDrake (talk) 07:34, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

I think it's fine for now since it has a hefty development section and plenty of coverage about its publication. As I said on the talk page, the English version was delayed so it's not even out yet. I bet there will be more reception once it comes out in 2 weeks. Axem Titanium (talk) 07:39, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

@ProtoDrake: Are you concerned we won’t get much reception or any more behind the scenes development info going forward? Judgesurreal777 (talk) 17:34, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

Yes. I created the article when I assumed reviews would appear on the original date, and nothing appeared. Since other SQEX game-derived novels have received little to no journalistic attention in terms of reviews, I decided to revert the article's creation until or unless there was a reception. I was modelling the article on The Myst Reader. --ProtoDrake (talk) 18:25, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

I think it’s not wrong to be hopeful that this one will get some attention since it’s the “happy ending” of Final Fantasy XV, it should get attention for good or ill. I personally think we should leave it for now, it is a beautiful article, and if reception never comes and we can’t make it a GA, we can fold it back where it came from again. Reviews hopefully won’t be long now. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 22:38, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

It's such a beautiful article that I don't necessarily believe it needs to have a reception section to stand alone. It's got plenty of third party sources covering it. GNG doesn't say that critical reception specifically is what makes something notable, just reliable significant coverage. Axem Titanium (talk) 00:54, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

Perhaps that it true! But if I was a gambling man, I would say the fact that a huge franchise like this has had its “true ending” scrapped and turned into a book will attract some attention. We will have something, how much? I do not know. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 21:00, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

Reviewers Needed

I have a few of the people that make all our Square Enix magic happen up for GA, please review them! Most are not long, have quality sources, sourced works, etc. Not too difficult, and may be more interesting than you may deem! For the list see the 100/200 Drive above. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 21:02, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

Review trade?

Can anyone review Template:Did you know nominations/Final Fantasy XIV: Shadowbringers for me please? Willing to trade a GA review or multiple DYK reviews so it can get approved in time for August 11. I'm also planning to nominate it for GA right after if you're in the mood for a deeper review as well. Thanks, Axem Titanium (talk) 08:53, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

Reminder about some lesser known sources

This is a quick reminder about some primary sources for development info that are often overlooked. The Final Fantasy and Square Enix YouTube channels have video development diaries and some of their convention panels. You can use {{cite AV media}} to cite them (for longer videos, it's helpful to include a timestamp, but not necessary for shorter ones). Also the Final Fantasy Portal Site has developer interviews for older games, in between fluffy user polls. The most recent one was a series of interviews to commemorate the 20th anniversary of FF9. I've been adding them as refideas on individual pages, but I thought I'd point it out again here. Axem Titanium (talk) 04:06, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

About sources, I think Wikipedia is lacking coverage about the short story On a Way to Smile which takes place before Advent Children. I have seen interviews about Nojima among other people behind it but can't find the official interview. The interviews seem to discuss multiple characters after VII such as what happens to Cloud and Tifa's relationship but whenever I search for that stuff it becomes kinda complicated since I only find comments about shippings.Tintor2 (talk) 21:44, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Need an editor to take a GAN over the finish line

Judgesurreal isn't able to finish addressing my GAN comments at Talk:Noctis Lucis Caelum/GA1 due to irl stuff. The article is in solid shape and I've done the whole review already so it'd be a shame to fail it at this point. Is anyone able to take over on this one? Axem Titanium (talk) 06:27, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Final Fantasy X-2 FAR

I have nominated Final Fantasy X-2 for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. GamerPro64 04:51, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

New Article: Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles

I've just finished creating an article for the overall Crystal Chronicles series. It almost certainly needs other eyes to do copyediting, the reception section's lacking, and it needs a logo image of some kind for the infobox, but it's there. It can be worked on. --ProtoDrake (talk) 19:07, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

Kingdom Hearts Melody of Memory Japanese articles

I was curious if there was anyone in the project who could translate 2 Japanese interviews for Kingdom Hearts: Melody of Memory? The 2 articles are on PlayStation Japan and Famitsu. I've done rough translations with Google Translate, and I think there are a few bits in each interview that I'd like to add to the article and I want to make sure what's being added is accurate. Thanks in advance. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:44, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

Outdated GAs

I don't know if the standard was different for Good Articles back then, but I notice a few GAs that don't hold up.

• Dissidia Final Fantasy
• Dissidia Duodecim
• Final Fantasy Adventure
• Final Fantasy Chronicles
• Final Fantasy Dimensions
• Final Fantasy Tactics Advance
• Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings

Mainly the reception sections are either focused on ratings or reduced to just one-sentence commentary about the game. There are probably more articles out there that need to be reviewed further but I'll have to dig deep. it would be a good idea to improve these articles if they ever get re-assessed and de-listed from GAs.Blue Pumpkin Pie ^{Chat Contribs} 01:05, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

For what it is worth from what it looks like, I'm not even sure that Dimensions actually passed? The reviewer said they'd add more comments, added the Pass and then removed it straight away, and then that was it? --203.18.34.190 (talk) 06:35, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

Looks like then they were the one to change the GAN template to a GA template: [3], so a bit odd but that counts, I think. --PresN 13:13, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

Does anyone want to tackle these articles? I think I can dedicate some time with Dissidia, Dissidia 012, and FF Chronicles, since I'm familiar with those games the most. However I don't have much knowledge on the other games.Blue Pumpkin Pie ^{Chat Contribs} 19:10, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

I can manage FFA, love that game. Best Mana. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 20:07, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

Sounds good.Blue Pumpkin Pie ^{Chat Contribs} 20:18, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

Talking about outdated article, what about any of the Kingdom Hearts articles? I mean, Roxas (Kingdom Hearts) was one of the first things I did here but I was quite a noob and I haven't played the latest games to add anything new.Tintor2 (talk) 20:35, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

I'm personally not the best when it comes to fictional characters so there was a reason I didn't include them in the list, but if you want to include fictional character articles, you can update the list.Blue Pumpkin Pie ^{Chat Contribs} 20:55, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

Final Fantasy X-2 FAR

Final Fantasy X-2 is likely to be delisted as an FA in the next few weeks; while improvements have been made during the FAR, the reception section still needs work. Just alerting the project in case anyone has the time/inclination to help it. --PresN 13:51, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

The article was kept. Axem Titanium (talk) 00:37, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

Hooray! Hats off to Axem Titanium and Aoba47 for all their hard work saving the article! --PresN 05:42, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for the ping. Axem Titanium did a majority of the work so they deserve the credit. Aoba47 (talk) 13:48, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

Cactuar/Tonberry articles

In the past couple days, Zxcvbnm has created articles on Cactuar and Tonberry, which... I'm a little iffy on? They're nice starts, but I'm not sure they're independently notable- so far neither article really has solid sourcing beyond listicles, and barely any development/reception, though obviously they were just started. I feel the same way about Moogle, though that's been around a year - it describes the subject, but there's no real development or reception, just sources saying "thing exists". I feel like all three would be better off merged into a section in Recurring elements in the Final Fantasy series. Does anyone else have an opinion? --PresN 02:56, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

I have no immediate opinion, but I could do some source checking. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 03:03, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Actually, I made sure to mostly avoid using listicles. If I did use them, there would be way more sources. I'm pretty sure they would all survive an AfD, otherwise I wouldn't have made them. Right now there is a bare minimum but still GNG passing amount of sources for some of them, but I am sure they could be expanded by someone who had access to more gaming magazines. Also I am sure there is much more on their development in Final Fantasy artbooks and the like, but those are also difficult to access._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 05:05, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

I did a fairly large expansion of the Moogle article just now at least, so I am now almost certain that it passes GNG. The amount of Moogle articles out there is pretty massive._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 05:35, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

I would say the Moogle is just as recognizable as the Chocobo, and by now they are firmly established mascots of a very high profile video game series internationally. The Cactuar and Tonberry creatures are not as iconic to their extent, but unlike say "Cid", their depiction has been fairly consistent from game to game and are unique enough that one should be able to distill enough material for the article through diligent research. Besides gaming magazines, and a lot of it may not be readily accessible online, I think the issue here is that a lot of the developmental info is behind a language barrier. For example, there are zero English language sources for developmental info on the Yakuza character Ryuji Goda, but if I do a search for him with his name in kanji, there's actually quite a bit to go through on the Famitsu and 4gamer websites. I had a look at the articles' Japanese versions, but unfortunately it's very heavy on fancruft, relatively unsourced and of no assistance. Haleth (talk) 06:03, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

From what I can see from Tonberry and Cactuar articles are pretty scarce. I don't think they'll survive as they currently stand.Blue Pumpkin Pie ^{Chat Contribs} 14:00, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Just because articles are somewhat low on sources, if still notable, doesn't mean they should be immediately merged/deleted. WP:POTENTIAL (although, IMO, they go beyond that)._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 14:38, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

In my humble opinion, the content just barely scratches the surface of possibly notable. Abryn is good at finding information, so my opinion will be based on whether more content can be found or not. If its proven that there aren't any sources immediately accessible to improve these articles, my vote will be to merge.Blue Pumpkin Pie ^{Chat Contribs} 16:30, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

If everything lined up with your lofty standard, then there would be almost no character article in existence that would be notable enough for Wikipedia. I would not call two entire articles, one web and one magazine, about the Cactuar, as well as several paragraph long mentions scratching the surface. There are also undoubtedly more waiting to be found for such a widely known character that has appeared in almost 50 mainline series titles and even more crossovers._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 04:45, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Here's a few more I've found from a quick search, Zxcvbnm you might find this helpful. A couple of crossovers, a real life reference, promotional and merchandise opportunities, and three sources to illustrate the coverage the cactuar mod has received as well as the significance of PC mod support and its possibilities:

• https://www.destructoid.com/stories/review-world-of-final-fantasy-400385.phtml
• https://www.vg247.com/2018/07/12/monster-hunter-world-cross-over-behemoth-final-fantasy/
• https://www.kotaku.com.au/2014/08/cactuar-proposes-to-girlfriend/
• https://cafemom.com/lifestyle/222070-nerd-tattoos/316751-all_hail_the_cactuar
• https://japantoday.com/category/features/new-products/'final-fantasy'-christmas-cakes
• https://japantoday.com/category/features/lifestyle/real-world-'final-fantasy'-wedding-plan-reservations-start-in-japan
• https://www.thestar.com.my/tech/tech-news/2018/02/12/final-fantasy-continues-franchise-exploration-with-everybodys-golf
• https://www.gamerevolution.com/news/370275-final-fantasy-xv-developers-on-why-mod-support-is-essential
• https://www.pcgamer.com/final-fantasy-15-teases-mod-possibilities-with-civilian-cactuars/
• https://www.gamesradar.com/final-fantasy-15-pc-mods/

If nothing else, the sources I've listed give me the impression that by 2020, the Cactuar seem to be almost on equal footing with the Chocobo and Moogle as far as being a series mascot is concerned. I suspect there's more if we start looking into Japanese language sources. Haleth (talk) 12:49, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

@Zxcvbnm: I believe every character has to have a substantial cultural/real-world impact or critical analysis in order to be notable (just like any other subject in Wikipedia). Also, it's important to note that Cactuars and Tonberries are not "characters". They don't have established personalities or on-going stories. So to highlight a recurring fictional element will require a little more effort than just pulling a few mentions in my humble opinion.

I would not call two entire articles, one web and one magazine, about the Cactuar, as well as several paragraph long mentions scratching the surface.

Well "mentions" I just don't find that strong for just a recurring fictional element in a series as notable, to me for something that isn't even a real character, they would need to have significant cultural impact. The two entire articles you are referring to I'm not sure. I see one Kotaku article highlighting Cactuar's butt, and I see one GameFan magazine that dedicates a paragraph to a bigger topic: Final Fantasy Lore.

@Haleth: Although on the surface that looks like a lot of information, but it really is a lot of trivia. It would require some inventing an idea to use these sources. For example, we would need sources noting that Cactuars are popular items for modding and marriages. But not pointing out individual fandom moments from what those sources appear to have shown. I'm also curious about what Japanese sources you believe will prove notability? I can imagine Japanese sources possibly improving a little bit of the development section but not much on reception.Blue Pumpkin Pie ^{Chat Contribs} 16:43, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

I looked up Cactuar, and I didn't really find any evidence of notability from the search. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 04:56, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

Proposal to merge back Cactuar and Tonberry to Recurring elements in the Final Fantasy series

I"m proposing we merge these articles back since they have very little to establish notability.

Support as proposer.Blue Pumpkin Pie ^{Chat Contribs} 19:33, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

• Support for Cactuar, preliminary Oppose for Tonberry. I have not looked into it so there may be sources that could show notability. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 02:40, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose for Cactuar, Support for Tonberry. I have already looked into sources for Tonberry, and I don't believe it can be expanded much more then what can be found on the current article to demonstrate notability. However, I believe there should be a paragraph dedicated to the sparse but useful reception for the Tonberry on the Recurring elements in the Final Fantasy series article.

As for the Cactuar however, I found at least 7 reliable sources vetted by WikiProject VG which specifically cover the Cactuar mod released by Square Enix for the PC version of FFXV to demonstrate modding possibilities as its essential feature, and half of these sources' authors have expressed their opinions towards the subject of the mod within the same articles which are not trivial mentions. These are PC Gamer, Gamerevolution, Rockpapershotgun, and Gamesradar. Another source is specifically devoted to the Cactuar, although half of it is presented as game guide material. Per WP:Notability, significant coverage is more than a trivial mention, but it does not need to be the main topic of the source material. Even the multiple instances of trivial mentions have apparently expressed its status as "iconic", much more so then the other recurring elements of the franchise.

The nominator is of the opinion that the Final Fantasy-themed licensed merchandise, including cakes and confectionaries using licensed characters, the fan wearing a cactuar costume for a marriage proposal, and the character being featured along with the two other FF-themed mascots are isolated fandom moments and mere trivia which do not prove notability. I would argue that these merchandising opportunities, in consideration of the source I have mentioned along with a couple of other Japanese sources here (Cactuar along with Moogle and Chocobo used for Universal Studio Japan's Final Fantasy XR Ride and related merchandise) and here (IGN Japan discussing the Everybody's Golf crossover's merchandise) are offered by Square Enix in response to the character's popularity with fandom. My response to the nominator insisting that the subject should be shown as a popular item for "modding or marriages" (refer to the Kotaku article about the fan's proposal where he explained why he chose that character, and the licensed wedding cake). All these disparate sources, when read in conjunction forms demonstrates that, or at least an idea that the character is a consistently popular choice for public fandom expressions. I agree that Wikipedia:SYNTHESIS is necessary to properly gauge proper opinion of notability, and it's fine since the aim of the article should be discussing the Cactuar as a mascot like the Cactuar and Moogle, not a developed character with a defined personality; there is coverage which broadly cover why FF iconography and merchandise are popular expressions by its fandom.

My point is there appears to be enough instances to show that Square Enix specifically chose the Cactuar, Moogle and Chocobo for promotional and merchandising opportunities (we don't have verifiable sources on why certain characters are promoted over others, which is why the character's notability is called into question), which elevate their status above being just another recurring element or theme, and FF fandom have responded accordingly. If the consensus is to keep this article, improvements incorporating additional sources can be made immediately. Haleth (talk) 06:06, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

@Haleth: Wikipedia is explicitly against SYNTHESIS because it is a form of Original Research, so if you think that Synthesis is necessary, you're going against Wikipedia's policy. Notability isn't proven by how much merchandise there is, or how much Square Enix uses the mascot as merchandise. it's proven by how much cultural impact there is involved. The sources have to recognize that it is a popular item among some form of community, not just make an article about a few mods and assume it "popular". Yes, you proved Cactuar along with Moogles and Chocobo are recurring elements or themes of final fantasy, which no one is arguing, but being a recurring element doesn't make it notable. You need to prove that the sources verify a real-world cultural impact or deep critical analysis.Blue Pumpkin Pie ^{Chat Contribs} 14:40, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

@Blue Pumpkin Pie: Excuse me, but I suggest you watch your aggressive tone. I believe you misinterpreted what I wrote and what the actual wikipedia policy on WP:SYN is. It simply says: "Do not combine material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any of the sources", which means no original research that is made up out of thin air. Nowhere in the guidelines say "Wikipedia is explicitly against SYNTHESIS because it is a form of Original Research" as you have asserted, it simply goes into detail about what to do or not to do when synthesizing material.

What I am saying is, it is necessary to go through a lot more sources for this subject in this instance to actually form a coherent analysis. This topic is a borderline case, and it's not an instance where a handful of sources can prove beyond reasonable doubt that it demonstrates notability, but rather a balance of probabilities. I did not express any "assumption" as you have alleged that the fan mod is "popular", I am saying it has generated substantial coverage; some of the authors of the reliable sources themselves have already expressed an opinion in response the character and/or the mod (one even expressed his reservations about it), we simply paraphrase or quote what they have to say. The Japanese sources I posted are third party RS' who provided coverage as opposed to simply reposting a press release from Square Enix or Universal Studios. You won't find any deep critical analysis about the subject in the sources because it is a comic relief mascot with no defined personality, but the available sources in my view demonstrate that there is real world cultural impact. The Kotaku post on the proposal and the tweets about mods are an indicator of that, though I can certainly see why someone would argue against it as this is a borderline case. And by the way, I should point out that nothing in the GNG guidelines that actually defines what "real world notability" exactly is or mandates "real world notability" as an editing guideline, and this has been parroted by a few editors to justify their WP:IDONTLIKEIT approach during discussions. Only WP:GNG guidelines applies as far as I know with regards to fictional characters, and a recent precedent formed from consensus which de-emphasizes listicles when assessing notability.

You have already formed an opinion and you have a set agenda since you are the proposer, and nothing I have to add is going to change your mind as you have either ignored what I have presented or interpreted it in such a divergent manner. So please, agree to disagree and let's see what the consensus is. Haleth (talk) 15:18, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

@Haleth: There is no aggressive tone, I'm only being informative. The first sentence of WP:SYNTHESIS says Do not combine material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any of the sources. If sources are saying "A", and "B", we state "A" and "B" don't combine them to create "C". WP:SYNTHESIS isn't telling you what to do or not do when synthesizing material, it's saying to actually avoid synthesizing altogether.

You found many singular reports which on their own are completely trivial and don't add anything to Cactuars, but none of them came to the conclusion that Cactuars are popular amongst the modding community or amongst marriage proposals (Something substantial that proves it has a cultural impact). So without synthesis, you'll most likely be seeing information presented like this "On this day someone made a marriage proposal to someone else while wearing a Cactuar costume. A mod for FF15 was made using Cactuars on X day. a second Cactuar mod was reported on XX day, and a third mod reported on XXX day." which looks like a trivia section, not cultural impact. If perhaps maybe prove how popular the individual cactuar mods were, then maybe that will add something. But its only reporting its existence, not its significance.

I also avoid using WP:IDONTLIKEIT or WP:ILIKEIT accusations within a discussion because it assumes bad faith. I like Cactuars myself, and I have nothing against them. I personally wish they had a video game of their own and had more media coverage. But they don't, and unfortunately, the coverage is minimalistic. And there are

• Oppose for Cactuar, Support for Tonberry. I'm not a Final Fantasy person, so I had to dig into these. In my opinion, the Cactuar is notable enough for an article. It has enough mentions from notable to pass WP:GNG for a passing article, thanks to websites such as Kotaku, VG247 & Destructoid. In addition, whilst it likely won't count, Cactuars are one of the most recognisable things from video games, as it can literally be found on anything related to Final Fantasy. As for Tonberry, despite the fact I've never heard of it before, I can't find a single source outside of guides mentioning this enemy, making it quite unnotable. CaptainGalaxy 19:17, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
• Cautious Oppose for Cactuar, Support for Tonberry. The Cactuar seems like the kind of creation where interviews might be found somewhere, and some commentary might appear. Tonberry's not. --ProtoDrake (talk) 20:08, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
  • To illustrate your point, I just found another source, this time from Jim Sterling in 2009. It's a short article, but this is one of many sources, both trivial and substantial, which affirm its status as a FF mascot. Haleth (talk) 00:16, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose for Cactuar, Support for Tonberry. To be honest, I think they both should be merged to Recurring elements in the Final Fantasy series, as I don't think that Cactuar really has enough standalone notability to justify the separation, but the sources found for it convince me that it meets guidelines, so it's just my editorial opinion (especially as long as those sources aren't actually being used). Tonberry, however, doesn't seem to have had the real-world impact or enough sources specifically about it vs glancing mentions, so I think it needs to be merged. --PresN 01:40, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose for Cactuar, it has sufficient sources, per everyone else and my own research. I think that is a given and WP:SNOW outcome here, as it appears in nearly 50 Final Fantasy games. Re: The Tonberry, it does have an entire article about them, not just "passing mentions", but I will see if I can find any more references since everyone else does not seem to think it meets WP:GNG._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 03:16, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Alright, it's been a week since the last !vote; while there was some support for merging Cactuar it seems it was largely opposed. Tonberry, on the other hand, had a consensus to merge- besides the article creator, the only oppose was Bryn, who opposed on the basis that more sources might exist, though none had/have been found. I'm going to go ahead and merge it to Recurring elements; obviously, if more sources are found in the future, the decision can be revisited. --PresN 03:17, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

• Quick question for clarify about your previous statement: "as long as those sources aren't actually being used". Are you saying in your view that the discovered sources for the Cactuar could be used, or for some reason they aren't appropriate? Haleth (talk) 04:32, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
  • My opinion is that the sources found can and should be used in the article (I have not checked them closely); that they are not being used is an argument in my mind that the article "should" be merged, as I don't like having short articles lying around even if they meet notability guidelines. --PresN 05:15, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
    • I see. I intend to add them into the article and expand its material with the sources then. Haleth (talk) 06:20, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Square Enix GA push

So, not too long ago, Square Enix was demoted from GA status. I'm thinking about getting the article back up to GA status and also expand on Square (company) and Enix so we can promote them to GA as well as FA status, using Sega as a model. Thoughts? Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 20:50, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

Happy to help with copyediting and shop talk about structure, but I can't devote much time to research for now. A worthy objective! Axem Titanium (talk) 07:35, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

Should Vanguard Storm have its own article?

I noticed that Vanguard Storm and Crystal Defenders share an article. Both have a substantial reception and gameplay. I think it might be a good idea to split them.Blue Pumpkin Pie ^{Chat Contribs} 18:33, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

Theoretically, yeah, it is a different game; if I recall correctly the reason they're together is that I couldn't actually find many sources for Vanguard Storm at all- what's in CD is the bottom of the barrel: 1 paragraph of gameplay, 1 sentence of development, 2 (really 1 split) sentences for release dates, and a short paragraph of reception. You certainly could make that into a small Start article, but without more sources there's not really much point beyond giving it "it's own article"- there wouldn't be any substantial purpose. Maybe you can find more information, though? I'd doubt it since it's an 11-year-old minor mobile game, but I've been wrong before. --PresN 19:39, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

i couldn't find any, so I'll just drop the suggestion.Blue Pumpkin Pie ^{Chat Contribs} 01:00, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

TFA plans for Super Mario RPG

So, I'm thinking that we should make Super Mario RPG an FA and feature it as a TFA on March 9, 2021 (the 25th anniversary of its release). Any ideas? Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 20:57, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

I think you are on the wrong wikiproject page.... Haleth (talk) 23:16, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

Well, this page is under the scope of both the Video game and the Square Enix projects, so if it's appropriate, I'll notify WP:VG and WP:NINTENDO as needed. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 23:18, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

(ec) He's not, Super Mario RPG was developed by Square and is covered by this project. That said, Sjones, you also posted a similar project at WTVG about a Kirby article FA today, and just a week ago you were talking about getting Sonic the Hedgehog and Sakura Wars to GT/FT. Like, I agree that getting SMRPG to be TFA on its 25th anniversary is a neat idea, but I don't really see the point in proposing all of these projects at the same time– are these projects you plan on working on or just ideas that you've had that you're throwing out there to see if anyone is interested? --PresN 23:20, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

So, some of the ideas I have (i.e. Sakura Wars, Sonic, Super Mario RPG) are projects I've been working on. I got the Sakura Wars FT inspirations from Final Fantasy, which is a Featured Topic. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 23:27, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

There's not enough lead time. FAC is an extremely slow process these days. It'll take months just to get it through that. Improve the article and bring it through FAC if that's your goal, but don't count on your first, second, or third choice for TFA date. Axem Titanium (talk) 09:52, 21 November 2020 (UTC)