Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ancient Egypt/Archive 9

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Can anyone look at Khakau (king's son)?

Rejected draft but moved to article space as creator thought reviewer didn't know their stuff. Looks like quite a bit of OR. Doug Weller talk 16:59, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

I just had a very quick look through a couple of the sources that I could get a hold of easily. I think the sentence on the Elephantine Khnumhotep son of Khakau is OR, as there is nothing mentioned about Khakau on that page (or surrounding pages) that I could see. Merytat3n (talk) 01:32, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

I did the same. I checked the same source Merytat3n is mentioning regarding 'Khnumhotep, son of Khakau' and it is there on p. 128 for me. However, it's still probably 'SYNTH' to propose that the Khakau mentioned on the stela be identified with the Khakau the article is about. There is a 'fn 16' there, but I cannot access the page of notes that corresponds to it on Google Books, which is unfortunate. It is near the top of p. 228. Mr rnddude (talk) 17:40, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

Thanks all. Doug Weller talk 17:45, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

I forgot to link the JGU dossier on the Khnumhotep being discussed here. It also affirms that Khumhotep's father is a Khakau, who was himself a 'governor' and 'overseer of priests'. Mr rnddude (talk) 17:51, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

Thanks Mr rnddude for phrasing it much more clearly than I did! I did some more digging and managed to read note 16, on page 228. It says: "Khakau is possibly an abbreviated version of the name Khakauraseneb. Franke (1993: 45) postulated on chronological reasons that this is probably Khakauraseneb, son of Setythetep, the builder of a chapel in the sanctuary; otherwise, Khakau could have been the successor of that Khakauraseneb." So it looks like the Khakau who is the father of Khnumhotep is probably not the Khakau the article is about? Merytat3n (talk) 02:27, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for finding that information. Based on all that's been discussed, I have to agree that these are two different Khakau. Mr rnddude (talk) 20:25, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

No worries, happy to help. I have now removed that section from his page :) Merytat3n (talk) 21:26, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

On a different note, are we happy that Khakau (king's son) page meets notability requirements? Merytat3n (talk) 21:53, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

I'm not sure, but the lead suggests he was the son of a king, while we later say he wasn't. Maybe say had the title of king's son although he wasn't, explain in lead? Doug Weller talk 08:25, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

He is the brother of a king, almost 4000 years ago. That should be enough. Udimu (talk) 09:05, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

Discovery of the tomb of Tutankhamun is now at FAC

Feel free to give your input here. A. Parrot (talk) 03:53, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

I don't have any constructive feedback to give so I will just comment here instead. Great work on the page!!! :) Merytat3n (talk) 05:17, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

If you want, you can support the nomination on the FAC page. Constructive criticism is encouraged at FAC but not required, and you've already made valuable corrections to the article based on your knowledge of the subject. A. Parrot (talk) 16:07, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Haurun

A discussion has been opened at Talk:Haurun, proposing to move the article on that deity to the title Hauron. A. Parrot (talk) 21:42, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

Can someone please check these please

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/86.127.189.71?openInfobox=true Let me know if there’s a problem. I’m not really physically up to fixing them now but if they are actually vandalism I can deal with that. Thanks. Doug Weller talk 14:14, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

I don't know if they're vandalism, but they all seem to be expressing unwarranted certainty about relationships between rulers. It looks like they've all been reverted now, primarily by Lone-078 (thanks, Lone). A. Parrot (talk) 17:56, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

You're welcome, Parrot; L.P.H., Doug. Lone-078 (talk) 18:45, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

One of your project's articles has been selected for improvement!

Hello, Please note that Medjed, which is within this project's scope, has been selected as one of the Articles for improvement. The article is scheduled to appear on Wikipedia's Community portal in the "Articles for improvement" section for one week, beginning today. Everyone is encouraged to collaborate to improve the article. Thanks, and happy editing! Delivered by — MusikBot talk 00:05, 28 November 2022 (UTC) on behalf of the AFI team

Merge proposal at Four sons of Horus

At Talk:Four sons of Horus#Merger proposal, I have suggested that the four articles on the individual members of this group of deities be merged into the article about the whole group. Feel free to comment there. A. Parrot (talk) 18:10, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

Dating the reign of Merenptah based on a miracle in the Book of Joshua

An IP editor has readded to Merenptah a passage that I removed from the article in February: "Alternatively, astronomical calculation of a potentially reported annular eclipse (Joshua 10:10-14) that precedes Merneptah's Canaanite campaign against the Israelites places the beginning of his reign in 1209 or 1210 BC." See the source here: [1]. The IP editor's edit summary was "Astr&Geophysics is the leading journal in its field, please do not classify as dubious without published counterevidence."

I stand by the reasoning I gave in February: "Physicists trying to find naturalistic explanations for miracle stories are not good sources—especially when said miracle story is in Joshua, which may be more disconnected from historical reality than any other book in the Bible except Genesis." But I'm here to invite a third opinion. A. Parrot (talk) 15:37, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

Doesn't dating Merenptah via Joshua require us deciding when The Exodus happen, which most scholars think didn't happen as in the Bible? I'm also unclear how Merenptah is connected to those Bible pages that don't mention Mereptah or Egypt. Seems fairly dubious to me.--Ermenrich (talk) 17:03, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

What do you think, @Doug Weller:? A. Parrot (talk) 14:48, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

I absolutely do not think we should be using that source. It’s also used in the first four articles here.[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=Solar+eclipse+of+1207+BC+helps+to+date+pharaohs&title=Special%3ASearch&ns0=1&ns1=1&ns2=1&ns3=1&ns4=1&ns5=1&ns14=1&ns15=1&ns100=1&ns101=1]. Doug Weller talk 15:56, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

And Humphrys is used a lot.[ "Humphreys, Colin" site:en.wikipedia.org] Should this go to FTN? Doug Weller talk 16:01, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

After a look at Colin Humphreys, it does seem like it might be worth discussing at FTN. I'll remove the passage from Merenptah straightaway. A. Parrot (talk) 17:00, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

@A. Parrot do you want to do this today or shall I tomorrow? Or start at FTN.? Doug Weller talk 18:57, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

I can make a post at FTN later today. A. Parrot (talk) 19:15, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

@A. Parrot Thanks. Doug Weller talk 20:04, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

can someone please review the recent edits at Twenty-fifth Dynasty of Egypt?

Dates of dynasty changed, text added to cited text, etc. Thanks. Doug Weller talk 10:23, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

I reverted for the moment. See Talk:Twenty-fifth Dynasty of Egypt#Reverted recent edits. A. Parrot (talk) 21:14, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

GAR notice

Gaza City has been nominated for a community good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Onegreatjoke (talk) 17:54, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

Adding first and last leaders on dynasty articles

Would this be appropriate to do? The first and last rulers of the broader periods are added, but not the dynasties within the periods, though it can't be done on certain articles such as some of the Intermediate Period dynasties due to the lack of a chronological order of rulers. Star11308 (talk) 16:43, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

Unsure. Each dynasty article contains within it a list of rulers, whereas the wider kingdoms and intermediate periods don't contain a list of rulers. Presumably this is why the wider periods have a first and last ruler given??? There's probably no harm in adding them to the dynasties? See if someone more knowledgeable than me responds :) Merytat3n (talk) 23:03, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Requesting input on Hatshepsut

Hello! I'm requesting input on Hatshepsut, a Level 3 vital article on Wikipedia, in order to improve it to Good Article status. I would appreciate any help from members of this Wikiproject, especially any who are knowledgeable about the article subject. If anyone wishes to create a peer review of improvements on the talk page, that would be very much appreciated also. Thank you! –Gingermead (talk) 18:26, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Infobox Pharaoh

User23242343 has updated the Infobox Pharaoh template in order to accommodate Pharaohs who also held other titles (specifically the Ptolemies, but the new arrangement might be extendable to Kushite Pharaohs etc, perhaps). I think the new arrangement is acceptable, but I thought it would be good to invite wider contributions, given the importance of the template for this project. The discussion is at Talk:Ptolemy II Philadelphus. Furius (talk) 16:41, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

Project-independent quality assessments

Quality assessments are used by Wikipedia editors to rate the quality of articles in terms of completeness, organization, prose quality, sourcing, etc. Most wikiprojects follow the general guidelines at Wikipedia:Content assessment, but some have specialized assessment guidelines. A recent Village pump proposal was approved and has been implemented to add a |class= parameter to {{WikiProject banner shell}}, which can display a general quality assessment for an article, and to let project banner templates "inherit" this assessment.

No action is required if your wikiproject follows the standard assessment approach. Over time, quality assessments will be migrated up to {{WikiProject banner shell}}, and your project banner will automatically "inherit" any changes to the general assessments for the purpose of assigning categories.

However, if your project decides to "opt out" and follow a non-standard quality assessment approach, all you have to do is modify your wikiproject banner template to pass {{WPBannerMeta}} a new |QUALITY_CRITERIA=custom parameter. If this is done, changes to the general quality assessment will be ignored, and your project-level assessment will be displayed and used to create categories, as at present. Aymatth2 (talk) 13:55, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

New images for the "Crowns of Egypt" article.

I recently drew some new images of all 6 of the crowns that appear in the article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowns_of_Egypt. Hedjet, Deshret, Pschent, Atef, Khepresh and Cap. Also I know it's not a crown by the technical definition, but I also drew the Nemes headdress. I would be more than glad if these images get accepted. Also I'd be willing to draw other Egyptian Headdresses to complete the collection, and also make corrections if necessary. If you go to Wikimedia commons and search for any of these Crowns, my drawing will likely be the second image there. Eternal Space (talk) 01:58, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

Coffin of Nedjemankh

QUOTE: Unfortunately, this is not an uncommon occurrence in the art world. The United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization, referred to as UNESCO, put out an estimate that the illegal smuggling and trading of antiquities is a $2.2 billion USD market (this number may even be made higher through the contribution of black-market trade).

Wikipedia should not be a place for misinformation. Therefore, this sentence should be deleted.

I have checked the references, the article of Colin Campbell and the UNESCO publication (International Flows Of Selected Cultural Goods And Services, 1994-2003). Neither Campbell nor UNESCO pretends that the illegal antiquities market is worth $2.2 billion annually. Campbell writes: UNESCO estimates the antiquities trade to be worth US$2.2 billion annually; however, the financial scope of the illicit trade is ultimately unknowable as black market statistics are notoriously difficult to ascertain.

However, the UNESCO report describes the market for cultural goods in general, not the market for antiques:

3.5.1. Heritage goods

The category heritage goods corresponds to ‘collections and collector pieces’ and ‘antiques of an age exceeding 100 years’. These two items are not likely to be fully representative of heritage goods, hence a shorter analysis is presented in this section. Since this category is not fully covered, this could also explain the relative marginal role of heritage goods within the trade of cultural goods with a 3.7% share and value of US$ 2.2 billion in 2002. For imports and exports, high-income economies dominated the market with a share of over 98% in 2002. This share remained at the same level between 1994 and 2002.

The UNESCO publication doesn’t tell anything about the illicit antiquities market at all. Therefore, these sentences are incorrect and should be deleted without replacement. MeCorbeau (talk) 07:24, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Done. Thanks for pointing this out, MeCorbeau. A. Parrot (talk) 14:00, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

That was quick. Thank you A.Parrot! MeCorbeau (talk) 15:23, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Requested move of Ptolemaic Kingdom

Please see Talk:Ptolemaic Kingdom#Requested move 30 May 2023, re: a top priority page. Iskandar323 (talk) 09:11, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Suggested multi-move of Ptolemaic dynasty

Please see Talk:Ptolemy I Soter#Requested move 6 June 2023, re: a project relevant topic. Iskandar323 (talk) 19:28, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

A lot of new images available

Hi! A lot of new high-quality photographs (6000+) are now available in Commons:Category:Media from Museo Egizio (Turin). Few are already in use in the en.wiki articles. Most photos are categorized from commons:Category:Collections of the Museo Egizio (Turin) (at least by subject and by material), but your help is welcome, expecially in finding their right place in multiple languages. Enjoy! Marco Chemello (WMIT) (talk) 15:59, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Requested move of TT8

Please see the talk page for discussion of the suggested move of TT8 to "Tomb of Kha and Merit". Thank you! Merytat3n (talk) 21:35, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:TT8#Requested move 26 July 2023

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:TT8#Requested move 26 July 2023 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Frostly (talk) 13:01, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Turning off <hiero>

WikiProject members might be interested in phab:T344534. Please ping if you have a question for me. Izno (talk) 05:12, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

Hidden rooms found in Egyptian pyramid may contain pharaoh’s riches, archaeologists say

See Talk:Pyramid of Sahure#Hidden rooms found in Egyptian pyramid may contain pharaoh’s riches, archaeologists say Doug Weller talk 10:50, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

FA status of Ancient Egypt under review

See Talk:Ancient Egypt#WP:URFA/2020. The article hasn't received sustained attention for a long time, and I fear our flagship article will lose its FA status without a concerted effort. Anyone who would like to help, please comment on the talk page. A. Parrot (talk) 00:50, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

A request raised at Talk:Elagabalus and Talk:Caracalla

I'd like to ask the experienced editors here to weigh-in with their opinions on the questions: should Template:Pharaoh be included on the articles of Roman emperors and if so, under what conditions? I don't have strong opinions for or against it and the Roman period isn't one I have any useful familiarity with. Mr rnddude (talk) 19:12, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

The discussion isn't centralized and is spread across several talk pages, though I think LindsayH's thread opening at Template talk:Pharaohs is probably the best place to discuss this as it's more centralized, if in the back-end. Mr rnddude (talk) 20:19, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

New Chronology (Rohl)

Brought up at FTN where they are asking for an Egyptologist to comment. It's fringe, maybe too much self-sourced. Also, I can't find citations 7 and 8 to verify them or see if they mention Rohl. Thanks. Doug Weller talk 11:37, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Shock horror! Rohl added those citations. In fact, Rohl wrote 22:5% of the page.Eg [2]. Including, for example, "Thus, Rohl is of the opinion that none of these three foundations of the conventional Egyptian chronology are secure, and that the sacking of Thebes by the Assyrian king Ashurbanipal in 664 BC is the earliest fixed date in Egyptian history." WP:Who Wrote That is amazingly useful. Doug Weller talk 13:02, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Talk:Abydos, Egypt#Split proposed

An editor has suggested creating an article for the fragmentary king list from Ramesses II's temple at Abydos, not to be confused with the Abydos King List inscribed in Ramesses' father's temple. Please discuss in the talk page section linked above. A. Parrot (talk) 15:43, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Egyptian Grammar: Being an Introduction to the Study of Hieroglyphs#Requested move 1 March 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Egyptian Grammar: Being an Introduction to the Study of Hieroglyphs#Requested move 1 March 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. RodRabelo7 (talk) 18:37, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

One of your project's articles has been selected for improvement!

Hello, Please note that Ancient Egyptian architecture, which is within this project's scope, has been selected as one of the Articles for improvement. The article is scheduled to appear on Wikipedia's Community portal in the "Articles for improvement" section for one week, beginning today. Everyone is encouraged to collaborate to improve the article. Thanks, and happy editing! Delivered by — MusikBot talk 00:05, 6 May 2024 (UTC) on behalf of the AFI team

Deletion discussion for Osirica

Please share input at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Osirica (2nd nomination) ★Trekker (talk) 20:24, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

Paper "On the possible use of hydraulic force to assist with building the Step Pyramid of Saqqara"

See [3] Also [On the possible use of hydraulic force to assist with building the Step Pyramid of Saqqara]. Doug Weller talk 13:34, 4 August 2024 (UTC)