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Greek versus Latin suffixes

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It has been a long convention in the Western world, which received largely Greek sources through Latin, to use the Latin suffix -us where the Greek -os, and sometimes -as normally was (and therefore we have Evagrius instead of Evagrios, Anastasius instead of Anastasios, Odysseus instead of Odysseas, etc.). While there is a historic reason for this, a correct transliteration of Greek names to English does not have any reason to pass through the grammar of Latin. Unless a name has a much more common form in English (Gregory instead of Gregorios or George instead of Georgios), it is not correct to use Latin grammar for Greek names. A policy of rendering Greek names (ancient, medieval and modern) according to their native grammar, should be adopted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.80.178.1 (talk) 17:37, 4 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There is an actual reason for it: it is normal in English text (we should not use -us in feminine placenames, where it is no longer normal); our readers will come to us having seen Anastasius, Odysseus, Heraclitus, and will see those forms elsewhere.Septentrionalis PMAnderson 17:27, 14 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Come to think of it, Odysseas? I see it has become the Demotic usage; but it is not Homer (nor Thucydides, nor Vergil). This is the English Wikipedia; there is no need to introduce modern -er- tweaks. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 20:08, 15 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your input, but we are not "correct" or "consistent". In each article, we try to use the WP:ENGLISH WP:COMMONNAME and we can't create a WP:LOCALCONSENSUS here to do anything different. If the most common English form is Latinate (it often is), that's what we go with. If you want to "fix" that, start publishing scholarly articles on obscure figures and terms using your preferred romanization and getting your fellow classicists to follow your lead. You're right that the article should focus more on explaining our policies than trying to explain the history of Greek romanization, though. That's a different article. — LlywelynII 15:16, 14 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Latinization rules

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The page appears to be trying to describe how to "construct" the correct anglicized/latinized form for Greek names. This is futile. The only thing the guideline needs to be aware of is "most common form in English usage".

It isn't predictable whether Aristarchus or Aristarch is the form used in English. This is simply a matter of checking with reputable secondary sources. There are special cases like Ulysses that are completely irregular.

This page should give advice on where and when close transliteration ("lang:grc-Latn") or pronunciation details should be given, but the question of anglicizations of latinized Greek is beyond its scope. That simply falls under the main "stick to English usage" rule. --dab (𒁳) 09:27, 16 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the improvements to the article. I appreciate the effort to streamline and clarify, and I was pleased to learn that grc is a recognized language for Template:lang; I hope this will help editors make sure that ancient names are provided in Ancient Greek as opposed to Modern Greek. Now, the one thing that gives me some pause is that the sentence The normal English practice is to use the Roman standard, rather than attempting a phonetic transcription. was simply removed rather than edited into something more logical. I wouldn't want to see a chaos of moves (for example Philodemus to Philodemos, where "most common" is not as effortlessly clear as, say, Euthyphro vs. Euthyphron) justified by the absence of any guidance here. Would it be acceptable to include a statement that when Latinized and transliterated forms are both in use, the longer-established Latinized ones are generally preferred? Wareh (talk) 14:29, 16 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You are right, The normal English practice is to use the Roman standard, rather than attempting a [transliteration from Greek directly]. But this isn't really the scope of this page, it's simply a matter of WP:UE. I.e. "Philodemus" is already English and thus "Naming conventions (Greek)" shouldn't even be invoked. I didn't like the appearance that Wikipedia is prescribing "use the Roman standard" when this is simply an observation on the de facto situation in English (and of course there are exceptions, like "Athens"). In my book, Philodemus is lang=en, i.e. it is simply a name to be used in English language context without any markup. Philodēmos is a transliteration, to be italicized and tagged as lang=grc-Latn, and Φιλόδημος should of course just be tagged as lang=grc. --dab (𒁳) 10:16, 26 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The article could do with a little bit more in that direction. We shouldn't be saying "this is better" w/r/t article names at all: it's only an issue of WP:USEENGLISH. If both the Latinate and Hellenic forms are common, there might be some guidance in the direction of movement and the quality of the sources involved (e.g., we switched to the spelling "Beijing" ahead of some places, but after the movement in that direction was already inexorable and very prestigious sources had gone over.). In the relatively few iffy cases, though, it is something that should be worked out case by case. Like you said, any other policy is going to be futile and contradicted in many particular cases. — LlywelynII 15:15, 14 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

eta with acute accent

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In Ancient Greek ή is supposed to be translitterated to ḗ (e with macron and acute accent), or am I missing something? In other words, is this right? --A. di M. (formerly Army1987) — Deeds, not words. 00:53, 26 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It is much more common to ignore accents when transliterating (magnētis lithos). But there's nothing incorrect about representing the accent as you have done (though I wonder whether everyone will be able to display such an exotic character). Wareh (talk) 02:39, 26 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) My concern was about the availability of ḗ in common fonts. I wanted to know whether the most common solution was not giving a damn about poor fonts, not giving a damn about macrons (i.e. magnétis líthos), or not giving a damn about accents (magnētis lithos). So it's the last one. Thanks. --A. di M. (formerly Army1987) — Deeds, not words. 10:29, 26 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Depends on the purpose; Nagy's discussions of Homer require the macrons, others may not. The most common - and usually the most useful - is to omit both. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 00:18, 18 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. This isn't "required", but it's a nice extra. I think Unicode has ḗ and ṓ precisely for this purpose (seeing that the equivalent characters for a, i, u are missing). --dab (𒁳) 10:09, 26 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I know Vietnamese can use diacritics and tone marks on the same vowel, too. I don't know whether e and o can have a macron and other vowels can't, so I couldn't tell whether they were included for Vietnamese or for translitterated Ancient Greek. BTW, does anybody know how common fonts lacking them are? I guess that most readers would prefer to see ē rather than � or a box, so if there are many fonts lacking them I'm going to remove the accents. --A. di M. (formerly Army1987) — Deeds, not words. 10:29, 26 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The Vietnamese alphabet doesn't use macrons afaik.
As for macron+acute, you can use combining diacritics, i.e. ā́ (yields ā́). This may misplace the diacritics in rendering, but it's better than seeing �. ḗ (ḗ) is probably canonically equivalent to ḗ, so it won't matter which you enter since they'll be collapsed server-side. --dab (𒁳) 14:13, 26 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oxford Dictionary of Byzantium?

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Why are we following this reference work for specialists again?

I've just spent a weekend at a Byzantine conference, and had an odd moment when I realized that none of the written material (handouts and such) followed this system:

  • Most people Latinized in the traditional manner (Palaeologus, Demetrius)
  • A minority transliterated as though from Demotic (Dimitri)
  • Judith Herrin Anglicized Christian names, and used -os for surnames, but she did so consistently (John, Constantine, and Theophylact; not Theophylaktos).

Why are we using a "standard" which nobody follows, and which will detach lay readers (for whom we are supposed to care) from nine-tenth of the existing literature? Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:17, 14 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think you're right that Latinized names are still current among Byzantinists, and since Wikipedia normally uses them for Ancient Greek, there's the extra argument for uniformity. I think the preference of Greek writers in English is perhaps exerting more influence than the ODB. Wareh (talk) 22:05, 14 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Another instance of this practice has come up at Maximus Planudes - occasionally Maximos Planoudes; can anyone see a genuine reason why we should prefer the eccentric style of one Oxford reference to impose on all Byzantines a style which is used for neither ancient nor modern Greek? Septentrionalis PMAnderson 22:25, 4 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Because it is actually used, and by a great many scholars? And why is Maximos Planoudes eccentric, when it represents an accurate and straightforward transliteration of the name? Constantine ✍ 10:04, 5 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Google Books (restricted to books published in the last 20 years) says Maximus Planudes occurs in 2,680 volumes, Maximos Planoudes in 265. Therefore, the first spelling is observed as a norm, and the second spelling deviates the norm (i.e. is "eccentric"). It's not surprising that an exception to the norm can be found in a reference that applies a rigid scheme without reference to normal English usage. Wareh (talk) 13:57, 5 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I am in absolute agreement with PManderson. There seems to be little or no reason to continue a deceptive practice in transliterating names, which will be noticed only by those familiar with subject material--and thus likely to recognize who "Thoukudides" is--and will give the proper names to laypeople, who would likely be equally unfamiliar with "Thoukudides" and "Thucydides." As a model for transliterations, I would suggest community members examine Robert Fitzgerald's celebrated translations of the Iliad and Odusseia. Hamilqart (talk) 00:39, 2 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Why do people always bring the Classics into this? They have a widely accepted system of latinization, which due to the influence of the Classical world in Western culture is recognizable to the mainstream public. It would be stupid and counter-productive to try and make people use Aristoteles instead of Aristotle or Lysandros rather than Lysander. And yet, even there one can see the trend where these names are transliterated, with Alexandros and Ptolemaios instead of Alexander and Ptolemy (or Odusseia instead of Odyssey)... Byzantine studies are, unfortunately, in a different league. How many have even heard of Alexios Komnenos or Michael Palaiologos? People have heard of Justinian, and that is why we don't use either Justinianus or Ioustinianos in the article. The ODB form is awkward, yes, and inconsistent, but so is pretty much any transliteration system which has to take into account common usage and a modicum of recognizability. The point is, to the average reader "Andronikos Komnenos" is no more and no less recognizable, if recognizable at all, than "Andronicus Comnenus". Plus the system is used by the majority of recent publications, both those destined for the broad public as those for use by the scholars themselves. Constantine ✍ 09:34, 2 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The inconsistent and bastardized forms you mention are indeed in place, but I feel that Wikipedia should not be encouraging them; given the community's influence, I feel that it is in a wonderful position to begin turning the ship around towards more faithful transliteration. For the scholar, the result is simply a more faithful and scholarly presentation of information. I understand that transliterating Greek into corrupted forms is the commonly accepted practice. But it is far from a universally accepted one, and I feel that it would reflect much more positively to take a stand against the corruption of classical languages, which teaches students information about people and cities who--by the names given--never even existed at all. If I had to suggest a single scholar as a model for transliteration, it would be Robert Fitzgerald, whose faithfulness in transliteration does not suggest pedantry, but reverence.
If you think about it, so many little tidbits about who the Hellenes were float to the surface when you look at ancient names. Philip II; the name means nothing, tells us nothing. Philippos II; a lover (lit. "friend") of horses. The name tells us so much, not so much Philippos himself, who was of course no horseman when named, but about the land in which he lived. Makedonia, with its broad plains, was well-suited to raising strong horses, and horse breeding was not just a military matter, but clearly a sentimental part of Makedonian culture, something that the Makedones prized when they looked over their land. Alternatively, and perhaps more likely, we can extrapolate from the name that Philippos' ancestors, if not the whole of Makedonia (which was not a unified culture, even less so before Philippos) had a certain connection to horse culture, either within or beyond the ability of horse-breeding to showcase wealth.
For another example, consider the Qart-Hadastim. "Carthaginians" has no real meaning or significance. But by thinking of them, writing about them, acknowledging these people as the Qart-Hadastim, we get a fuller idea of who they are, and bear that in mind whenever the name is shown; they are the people of the "Qart Hadast," the "New City." Their self-image, unlike many other groups, isn't of a people who have dwelt in their lands since time immemorial. They're acknowledging themselves as a seafaring, transplanted people. How interesting is that? They don't tell themselves that they live at the center and origin of the universe; they're colonists, mariners. I understand the concerns about "change" and "new things," but the misconceptions about names--that there was ever a man named [Joo-lee-us See-zer]--are self-perpetuating, and we ought to look to breaking that cycle. Much writing outside of Wikipedia shies away from this kind of thing. But then again, not all sources of information are like Wikipedia. Most, certainly, don't insist on neutrality and supportability to the extent that Wikipedia does, and the community is rightly proud of its scholarly uniqueness in that regard. Hamilqart (talk) 21:40, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

What is good enough for Edward Gibbon is good enough for me; and I would venture that most educated Anglophones are more likely to have read Gibbon or Bury than the turgid stuff churned out by modern academics. I will stick to Palaeologus and Heraclius, and the people who imagine that there is something "more accurate" about spelling it differently in English can go and live in the Greek Wikipedia, if they prefer! Diomedea Exulans (talk) 10:33, 6 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Gibbon was an excellent scholar for his times and an even better writer, but scholarship has moved on since his day. I have seen Paleologus and Palaeologus and Paleologue as well as Palaiologos from perfectly English-born and English-speaking authors, and frankly, the argument that one form of a foreign name or term is somehow inherently more "English" than the other is pure nonsense. Language evolves and usage changes, and not just in the way Byzantine names are transliterated. In Gibbon's time, "bashaw" was a recognizable term; today, in so far as anyone knows it, it is pasha. The famous Barmakids were known as Barmecides, and Basra was Bassora. You can still be using the older forms, but that is personal preference and taste, not common practice. Wikipedia, for better or worse, does not create usage, it conforms to what is currently used in each field. Constantine ✍ 15:14, 6 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Transliteration for modern Greek: consonant clusters

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Since there's some controversy regarding the transliteration of some consonant clusters in modern Greek, let's discuss them. The issues are about γκ, μπ and ντ. In this reference, that discusses the UN system we chose in 2006 (see Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Greek)/Archive 1#Modern Greek), these are transliterated as gk, mp and nt respectively. One exception: μπ is transliterated as b at the beginning and at the end of a word. Other transliteration systems (e.g. BGN/PCGN) make other choices, and I think it's important to stick to our choice of one system, in order to avoid all those nice variant names like Pirgos, Pirghos, Pyrghos. I know this doesn't reflect English pronunciation, and it isn't meant to. Markussep Talk 14:59, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I for one don't see why we have to "stick" to any particular system. There are several transliteration systems, all of them valid and usable as the occasion demands. The guideline must recognize existing usage, not prescribe a system and try to straitjacket everything in it. γγ and γκ are traditionally transliterated as "g" or "ng", and more recently as "gg" or "gk" respectively. Personally, I heartily loathe the latter forms, as they are an obvious way to directly transcribe the individual letters but misses the whole point of the cluster being a single sound, but my personal taste doesn't have a say in the matter. I don't really see the problem with having Ioannis Giagkos alongside Theodoros Pangalos, provided that the usage is established (Giagkos for instance is officially written in this way). Also, IMO, the guide here should be how recognizable a name would be to an English-speaker: for instance, both "Andonis" and "Antonis" can be found as transliterations of "Αντώνης", but only the second preserves the visual hint to the original Latin name that is familiar as "Anthony". Similarly, no one would use "nt" to render "Αντρέας", and vice versa one wouldn't use "nd" to render "Αντίπαρος". Same goes for the μπ cluster. Constantine ✍ 16:13, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
What I certainly want to avoid, and you'll probably agree, is different transliterations for the same name, like Palaiochori vs. Paleohori. I agree that we should follow English usage, if there is a clear preference for one version in English. To my experience, there are many cases where existing usage is extremely scattered or not very logical. See for instance Chalkidiki, Hersonissos, Alonissos, Kalabaka. About your Giagkos and Pangalos examples: if that's what they're called in English, I see no reason to force them both to "gk" or "ng". I think your Αντίπαρος, Αντώνης and Αντρέας examples also illustrate the problem: who decides what's the best transliteration for those, if we decide not to follow a system? Markussep Talk 21:35, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I quite agree with you, I merely do not think that following any one system too rigidly is the way to go. Common usage should override transliteration in cases where a form is long-established like Chalcidice, Messenia, Athens or Elis. Similarly, "Andreas" must be recognizable to being related to "Andrew" and the "Anti-" element in Antiparos must be clear as well. Otherwise we can be lax, it is not so important if it is spelled Alonnisos or Alonnissos. To answer your question, it is we who decide. There is no consistent usage, no guideline on how to transliterate modern Greek names, and Greeks themselves mix things up constantly. The only requirement should be that the form we choose is recognizable so that someone with knowledge of Greek can back-transliterate it, and that it should if possible help in pronunciation. As an example, rendering Μπάμπης as "Mpampis" is technically accurate but useless, as the name is pronounced "Babis" or rather "Bambis". Personally, my preference is for the "traditional" way, with some nods to phonetic pronunciation: retain the ai, ei, oi, ou, and y, render γγ and γκ as ng/g, μπ as b, mb or mp, chi as ch and gamma as g. Constantine ✍ 07:33, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Nope. If there are multiple common English forms of the same name, the more common one goes in the title and running text and the other one also appears in bolded text, either in the lead sentence (if it's very important and common) or lower in the article (if it is less so). We don't want to give WP:UNDUE weight to every possible variation but we can't just ignore (or leave our readers clueless about) the variations people will in fact see in the wild. Where we should be consistent is only in the detailed transliteration following the Greek text in the lead sentence or infobox. — LlywelynII 12:06, 13 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Modern Greek, vowel clusters

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Hello! Sorry for my bad English. Can anybody explain me the sense of this?
"av, af (before θ, κ, ξ, π, σ, τ, φ, χ, ψ, and final)"
does that mean, that "αυ" in every other case have to be translated as "av", and just before θ, κ, ξ, π, σ, τ, φ, χ, and ψ as "af"?
Or does that mean, that the vowel cluster "αυ" just appeared before θ, κ, ξ, π, σ, τ, φ, χ, and ψ, and that this is in one's own discretion, how to be translated (whether "av" or "af")?--31.17.152.250 (talk) 15:10, 18 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It means αυ is always "av" except that αυθ, αυκ, αυξ, αυπ, αυσ, αυτ, αυφ, αυχ, αυψ are all always rendered with "af" and αυ at the end of a word is also always "af".
Regardless, it's actually wrong: αυ can also be rendered as "ay" if the α is accented or a diaeresis appears over the υ. — LlywelynII 12:01, 13 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

gg in names

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Should the page make clear on the issue of "gg" not "ng" e.g. Aggeliki Daliani, actress, Angeliki Karapataki, water polo player, Aggeliki Tsiolakoudi, javelin thrower. Just a question? In ictu oculi (talk) 05:24, 5 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think γγ is always "ng". That's also what it says on this naming conventions page (under "consonant clusters"). If the person is commonly called "Aggeliki" in English, or calls herself that way, I supoose we should follow that, but generally it should be "Angeliki". Markussep Talk 10:35, 5 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
This. The page could be clearer but that the common English form is always followed, not any particular arbitrary rule. W/r/t the transliteration of the Greek itself (not the article title or running text), then I favor the transliteration form of the ISO standard, but that's something for talking about below. — LlywelynII 11:57, 13 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Modern Greek transliteration queries

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Apologies if this comes across as a hugely naive / picky set of questions...

On preparing to expand some articles on places in Crete, I noticed that the transliterations given within and between articles aren't particularly consistent. For example, even Athens – which I thought might be a useful to use as gold standard – has (I think) the UN/ELOT transliteration with diacritics in the lede but the ISO 843 transliteration in the infobox.

On finding to this page, I found (forgive me) that the conventions aren't actually particularly clear. I therefore thought I would therefore attempt to work out exactly what the current guidelines are before doing anything!

As I understand it, the current article naming convention for Modern Greek names is in order of preference:

  1. For places, the common Anglicised/English name (e.g. Athens not Athina, Heraklion not Irakleio); or, for people, their preferred transliteration (if known).
  2. Most common/conventional transliteration (e.g. Antonis not Andonis etc.)
  3. Transliteration via UN/ELOT system.

... and no diacritics are ever used.

So my first question is: is my understanding correct?

The guidelines at present suggest that if an Anglicised name is used for the article title, the Greek name should be transliterated using ISO 843 in the article text. As I understand it, there are two versions of ISO 843: a like-for-like reversible transliteration (with bars over the ō from omega and the ī from eta) and a more phonetic transcription which is very similar to the UN/ELOT system. Which one should be used – and should diacritics be kept, although they are omitted from the article title? Further, why use ISO 843 (sometimes with and sometimes without diacritics) for in-article transliteration but UN/ELOT without diacritics for article titles? Is there a good reason this is recommended here?

Next: for e.g. Agios Nikolaos ( Άγιος Νικόλαος), given that every town with the word Άγιος in the name will have multiple standard transliterations (Agios/Aghios) is there any need to list both in every article, or is better to just use the one – even if both might be found in the wild. Finally, if the name of the article is a transliteration using the UN/ELOT system without diacritics, then should the name be transliterated once again in the lede to give Ágios Nikólaos or is one transliteration enough?

I'm primarily thinking of who benefits from the transliteration: i.e. an normal English speaker who can't (fluently) read the Greek alphabet or perhaps doesn't know IPA – if they're trying to learn how something is rendered in the native script or get a clue as to how it is pronounced in Greek it would probably just be confusing to see it written a variety of ways with various diacritics with no obvious reason.

Just to be clear: I'm not trying to make any particular point or advocate a specific way of doing things, but just to clarify what the guidelines are at present. Best case scenario is that my confusion is constructive – and that the naming convention might end up clarified a little. Or I might just have lost the plot. Easy to lose perspective if you worry about this stuff too much. Looking forward to getting some feedback... Charlie A. (talk) 14:18, 9 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

First off, thank you for helping out! Second, sorry this took so long to get a reply for. It's great you were trying to be so thorough and check ahead of time. Both are excellent traits and it'd be good to have you around more often. In the future, you might have better luck for a quick reply by going to WikiProject Greece or by creating a dozen or two [[User:XXX|links]] to frequent editors to these admin pages: it'll show up as a message for them if they're still active editors. You can also use WP:RFC.
Substantive points:
  1. Please try to make it a habit to wrap your foreign text using the appropriate language code. In the WP:LEADSENTENCE, use {{lang-grc|XXX}} for ancient forms, especially polytonic forms; {{lang-grc-gre|XXX}} for ancient forms that got carried over and are identical to their modern Greek forms; and {{lang-el|XXX}} for modern forms, especially pointedly monotonic forms. If the technical romanization is different from the common English form that is used in the article's running text, provide it in italics immediately after. (You may know all that and just skipped it above, but just covering those bases.)
  2. Your understanding is somewhat muddled. Our policies here can't form a WP:LOCALCONSENSUS that overrides important policies. The article namespace, the bolded form in the lead sentence, and the form used in the running text of the article will all be the WP:COMMON WP:ENGLISH form. Full stop. Nothing else is important. Now, since you are being thorough, it's a little more nuanced than that: we use the most common form in RELIABLE English sources, which in practice means that Google Scholar > Google Ngrams ≫ Google Books ≫≫ vanilla Google, especially since the "results" number for the vanilla search engine and first page of Books results is essentially garbage. Bonus points (but not necessarily dispositive) if there are heavy-hitting sources—in your case, places like the Encyclopædia Britannica, CIA, National Geographic, the Times—who've opted for a particular style. Pretty much every page is dealt with ad hoc.
  3. Diacritics are used. The rule is (presumably) written that way to avoid people overdoing it, making a habit of writing out Ēs and Ōs and tonoi for rare names where there's no solid data to point out an accepted form. As a matter of general principle, diacritics are a pain, are avoided by most English writers, and the article namespace shouldn't use them. That said, while it's downright rare for the common English form to be a version with diacritics (even the Empress Zoe page writes out her name without a diaeresis), it still happens and can (rarely) appear when the diacritic functions as a natural disambiguation: cf. Atë, Pasiphaë, and Yavaneśvara.
  4. You're right that the current treatment of Modern Greek is badly worded. There's essentially no difference between the ISO, ELOT, and UN transcription which is the atonal version presented here but mistakenly described as transliteration. The author appeared to intend that this effectively standardized system—which is very common in romanized Greek names in English use—should be used for providing article and running-text names of very small locales or obscure people where there is no otherwise accepted English-language form.
  5. The ISO mention at first seems superfluous but what seems to be intended is that its macron-above transliteration forms (shared with ELOT 2nd ed.) be used in preference to the macron-below forms of the UN and ELOT 1st ed. system, if it is to be used at all. It seems to be up in the air (and inconsistent across Wikipedia) what's going on with those Greek transliterations: Athens marks its eta in one place and its tone in another but not both (presumably mostly because ī́ isn't available in Wikipedia's default Latin character list and a little because it's ugly); Corinth, Rhodes, Sparta, and Tripoli mark their tones but not their etas; Eleusis doesn't mark its tone; and Thessaloniki, Argostoli, and Agios Nikolaos don't offer transliterations at all, considering their English forms to be good enough not to bother. I couldn't find a modern Greek city (apart from Athens's infobox) that distinguished its etas or omegas, but it's a fairly common practice in our Ancient Greek articles.
    It's only my own vote, but I would say Greek text must have a transliteration in the lead sentence or in the infobox and that single transliteration (NOT the running-text form in the main article, as you seem to imply) should mark the tone and macrons according to the ISO transliteration scheme, which eschews macrons-below for the consonants. (If every Greek city or town has a consistent infobox, then we could just make it a policy to move the Greek and translit there and not clutter any lead sentences with Greek forms or transliterations. That is the policy of the Chinese manual of style, e.g.)
  6. Absolutely, it's a Wikipedia-wide policy that we must include the common alternative English names for a given place. That means the Agios/Aghios/Ayios/etc. variants appear everywhere... but only if it's historically or currently a common alternative name of that particular place. It doesn't necessarily need to go in the lead sentence: they're mostly historical variants at this point and we shouldn't give them WP:UNDUE importance. But they could be included in a name or history section and bolded if they are relatively common ways of referring to that particular place. Similarly, if you're creating pages, kindly create redirect pages from the alternative forms.
Thanks again! — LlywelynII 11:54, 13 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Minor tweak: ideally include actual Greek, not blind translit

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Most of the changes I just made were to link the relevant general Wikipedia policies or to provide more common examples. I also provided mention of the {{lang-grc-gre}} template, which seemed like a helpful pointer.

One thing where I did change the wording of a policy was where it previously read

Transliterations are usually acceptable; they will be more accessible to most of our readers, and Hellenists should be able to infer the Greek.

I emended this to

Articles on people, places, and technical terms from ancient Greece should provide the Greek form of their name in the lead sentence... All appearances of Greek text must be given a romanization, rendering its content in Latin letters. This romanization should be italicized...

Surely this is already the standard practice and surely everyone agrees it's preferable to have the Greek text rather than just a transliteration, where possible. If there is some reason for a consensus to the contrary, though, lemme know. — LlywelynII 23:36, 12 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Placename transliteration for places in Cyprus

[edit]

There's a bit of a disagreement brewing at User talk:Neo ^#Romanisation of Greek place names in Cyprus. Knowledgeable editors might be interested to comment. Fut.Perf. ☼ 17:50, 21 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Will we be doing anything about this? I could compile a list of what all the articles' titles should be, according to ELOT or whatever. 93.109.171.237 (talk) 15:15, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, that might be useful. Or we just start moving things, unless there are further objections. But a list might be handy. Fut.Perf. ☼ 07:03, 24 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Right, so I've started with Larnaca District (which is in the best shape of the lot). I've given the name local governments (L) [[1], [2]] use precedence over the national government's (G) [[3]]. The name in ELOT was obtained by applying the following transform in ICU (54.1): el-Latin; Latin-ASCII [[4]]. If my methodology is ok I'll do the other districts (for villages not in Northern Cyprus).

Name in Greek Source Translit. Resultant page title per WP:PLACE Is the page a redirect? Notes
Άγιος Θεόδωρος Λάρνακας G Agios Theodoros Larnakas Agios Theodoros, Larnaca
Άρσος Λάρνακας G Arsos Larnakas Arsos, Larnaca
Αβδελλερό G Avdellero Avdellero
Αγία Άννα G Agia Anna Agia Anna, Cyprus
Αγίοι Βαβατσινιάς L Agioi Vavatsinias Agioi Vavatsinias
Αγγλισίδες G Anglisides Anglisides
Αθιένου G Athienou Athienou
Αλαμινός G Alaminos Alaminos
Αλεθρικό G Alethriko Alethriko
Αναφωτία L Anafotia Anafotia at Anafotida
Απλάντα G Aplanta Aplanta
Αραδίππου G Aradippou Aradippou
Βάβλα G Vavla Vavla
Βαβατσινιά G Vavatsinia Vavatsinia
Βορόκληνη G Voroklini Voroklini yes
Δελίκηπος G Delikipos Delikipos
Δρομολαξιά G Dromolaxia Dromolaxia
Ζύγι G Zygi Zygi
Κάτω Δρυς G Kato Drys Kato Drys
Κάτω Λεύκαρα G Kato Lefkara Kato Lefkara one article for both at Lefkara
Κίτι G Kiti Kiti, Cyprus
Καλαβασός G Kalavasos Kalavasos
Καλό Χωριό Λάρνακας G Kalo Chorio Larnakas Kalo Chorio, Larnaca
Κελλιά G Kellia Kellia, Cyprus
Κιβισίλι G Kivisili Kivisili
Κλαυδιά G Klavdia Klavdia
Κοφίνου G Kofinou Kofinou
Κόρνος G Kornos Kornos, Cyprus
Κόση G Kosi Kosi, Cyprus yes no article exists
Λάγεια G Lageia Lageia
Λιβάδια Λάρνακας G Livadia Larnakas Livadia, Larnaca
Μαζωτός G Mazotos Mazotos
Μαρί G Mari Mari, Cyprus
Μαρώνι G Maroni Maroni
Μελίνη G Melini Melini
Μελούσεια G Melouseia Melouseia
Μενεού G Meneou Meneou
Μεννόγια L Mennogia Mennogia at Menogeia
Μοσφιλωτή G Mosfiloti Mosfiloti
Ξυλοτύμπου L Xylotympou Xylotympou yes at Xylotymvou
Ξυλοφάγου G Xylofagou Xylofagou
Οδού G Odou Odou
Ορά G Ora Ora, Cyprus
Ορμίδεια G Ormideia Ormideia
Πάνω Λεύκαρα G Pano Lefkara Pano Lefkara one article for both at Lefkara
Πέργαμος G Pergamos Pergamos yes
Περβόλια L Pervolia Pervolia
Πετροφάνι G Petrofani Petrofani
Πυργά Λάρνακας G Pyrga Larnakas Pyrga, Larnaca
Πύλα G Pyla Pyla
Σκαρίνου G Skarinou Skarinou
Σοφτάδες G Softades Softades
Τερσεφάνου G Tersefanou Tersefanou
Τρεμετουσιά G Tremetousia Tremetousia
Τρούλλοι G Troulloi Troulloi
Τόχνη G Tochni Tochni
Χοιροκοιτία G Choirokoitia Choirokoitia (village)
Ψεματισμένος G Psematismenos Psematismenos
Ψευδάς G Psevdas Psevdas

All the villages in Larnaca seem to have been transliterated in ELOT. Obviously, this table is informational; some of these aren't obvious moves. 93.109.171.237 (talk) 11:42, 24 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Here's Paphos, which requires most of the work:
Name in Greek Source Translit. Resultant page title per WP:PLACE Is the page a redirect? Notes
Άγιος Γεώργιος Πάφου G Agios Georgios Pafou Agios Georgios, Paphos
Άγιος Δημητριανός G Agios Dimitrianos Agios Dimitrianos
Άγιος Ισίδωρος G Agios Isidoros Agios Isidoros, Cyprus at Ayios Isidhoros, Paphos
Άγιος Ιωάννης Πάφου G Agios Ioannis Pafou Agios Ioannis, Paphos
Άγιος Νικόλαος Πάφου G Agios Nikolaos Pafou Agios Nikolaos, Paphos
Άρμου G Armou Armou
Έμπα G Empa Empa, Cyprus at Emba, Paphos
Ίννια L Innia Innia at Inia, Paphos
Αγία Βαρβάρα Πάφου G Agia Varvara Pafou Agia Varvara, Paphos
Αγία Μαρίνα Κελοκέδαρων G Agia Marina Kelokedaron Agia Marina Kelokedaron yes
Αγία Μαρίνα Χρυσοχούς G Agia Marina Chrysochous Agia Marina Chrysochous yes
Αγία Μαρινούδα G Agia Marinouda Agia Marinouda
Ακουρσός G Akoursos Akoursos
Αμαργέτη G Amargeti Amargeti
Αναδιού G Anadiou Anadiou
Αναρίτα G Anarita Anarita
Ανδρολύκου L Androlykou Androlykou
Αξύλου G Axylou Axylou
Αργάκα G Argaka Argaka
Αρμίνου G Arminou Arminou
Ασπρογιά G Asprogia Asprogia
Αχέλεια G Acheleia Acheleia
Βρέτσια G Vretsia Vretsia
Γαλαταριά G Galataria Galataria
Γεροσκήπου G Geroskipou Geroskipou
Γιαλιά G Gialia Gialia
Γιόλου G Giolou Giolou
Γουδί G Goudi Goudi, Cyprus
Δρούσεια G Drouseia Drouseia yes
Δρύμου G Drymou Drymou
Ελεδιώ L Eledio Eledio
Επισκοπή Πάφου G Episkopi Pafou Episkopi, Paphos
Ευρέτου G Evretou Evretou
Ζαχαριά G Zacharia Zacharia, Cyprus
Θελέτρα G Theletra Theletra
Θρινιά G Thrinia Thrinia yes
Κάθικας G Kathikas Kathikas
Κάτω Ακουρδάλεια G Kato Akourdaleia Kato Akourdaleia yes
Κάτω Αρόδες G Kato Arodes Kato Arodes one article for both at Arodhes (should be Arodes)
Κέδαρες G Kedares Kedares
Καλλέπεια G Kallepeia Kallepeia yes
Κανναβιού L Kannaviou Kannaviou
Καραμούλληδες G Karamoullides Karamoullides
Κελοκέδαρα G Kelokedara Kelokedara
Κιδάσι G Kidasi Kidasi
Κισσόνεργα G Kissonerga Kissonerga
Κιός G Kios Kios, Cyprus yes
Κοίλη G Koili Koili
Κοιλίνια L Koilinia Koilinia at Kilinia
Κονιά G Konia Konia, Cyprus at Konia, Paphos
Κούκλια Πάφου G Kouklia Pafou Kouklia, Paphos at Kouklia
Κούρτακα L Kourtaka Kourtaka
Κρήτου Μαρόττου G Kritou Marottou Kritou Marottou
Κρήτου Τέρρα G Kritou Terra Kritou Terra
Κινούσα L Kinousa Kinousa
Λάσα G Lasa Lasa, Cyprus at Lasa, Paphos
Λέμπα G Lempa Lempa, Cyprus
Λαπηθιού G Lapithiou Lapithiou
Λεμώνα G Lemona Lemona, Cyprus at Lemona, Paphos
Λετύμπου L Letympou Letympou at Letymvou
Λιβάδι G Livadi Livadi, Cyprus no article
Λουκρούνου G Loukrounou Loukrounou
Λυσός G Lysos Lysos
Μάρωνας G Maronas Maronas, Cyprus
Μέσα Χωριό G Mesa Chorio Mesa Chorio
Μέσανα G Mesana Mesana
Μακούντα G Makounta Makounta
Μαμούνταλη G Mamountali Mamountali
Μαμώνια G Mamonia Mamonia
Μανδριά Πάφου G Mandria Pafou Mandria, Paphos
Μαραθούντα G Marathounta Marathounta
Μελάδεια G Meladeia Meladeia
Μελάνδρα G Melandra Melandra, Cyprus
Μεσόγη G Mesogi Mesogi
Μηλιά Πάφου G Milia Pafou Milia, Paphos
Μηλιού G Miliou Miliou
Μούσερε G Mousere Mousere
Νέα Δήμματα G Nea Dimmata Nea Dimmata
Νέο Χωριό Πάφου G Neo Chorio Pafou Neo Chorio, Paphos no article
Νατά G Nata Nata, Cyprus
Νικόκλεια G Nikokleia Nikokleia
Αρχιμανδρίτα L Archimandrita Archimandrita yes
Πάνω Ακουρδάλεια G Pano Akourdaleia Pano Akourdaleia
Πάνω Αρόδες G Pano Arodes Pano Arodes one article for both at Arodhes (should be Arodes)
Παναγιά L Panagia Panagia, Cyprus yes
Πέγεια G Pegeia Pegeia
Πελαθούσα G Pelathousa Pelathousa
Πενταλιά G Pentalia Pentalia
Περιστερώνα Πάφου G Peristerona Pafou Peristerona, Paphos
Πιταργού G Pitargou Pitargou
Πολέμι G Polemi Polemi
Πομός G Pomos Pomos
Πραιτώρι G Praitori Praitori
Πραστιό Πάφου G Prastio Pafou Prastio, Paphos
Πόλις G Polis Polis, Cyprus
Σίμου G Simou Simou
Σαλαμιού G Salamiou Salamiou
Σαραμά G Sarama Sarama, Cyprus at Sarama, Paphos
Σκούλλη G Skoulli Skoulli
Σουσκιού G Souskiou Souskiou
Στατός – Άγιος Φώτιος G Statos – Agios Fotios Statos – Agios Fotios yes at Statos-Agios Fotios
Σταυροκόννου G Stavrokonnou Stavrokonnou
Στενή G Steni Steni
Στρουμπί G Stroumpi Stroumpi
Τάλα G Tala Tala, Cyprus at Tala, Paphos
Τέρρα L Terra Terra, Cyprus at Tera, Paphos
Τίμη G Timi Timi
Τραχυπέδουλα G Trachypedoula Trachypedoula
Τρεμιθούσα G Tremithousa Tremithousa
Τριμιθούσα G Trimithousa Trimithousa
Τσάδα G Tsada Tsada
Φάλεια G Faleia Faleia
Φάσλι G Fasli Fasli yes
Φασούλα Πάφου G Fasoula Pafou Fasoula, Paphos
Φιλούσα Κελοκέδαρων G Filousa Kelokedaron Filousa Kelokedaron yes
Φιλούσα Χρυσοχούς G Filousa Chrysochous Filousa Chrysochous yes
Φοίνικας G Foinikas Foinikas, Cyprus
Φύτη G Fyti Fyti
Χλώρακα L Chloraka Chloraka
Χολέτρια G Choletria Choletria
Χούλου G Choulou Choulou
Χρυσοχού G Chrysochou Chrysochou
Χόλι L Choli Choli, Cyprus at Kholi, Paphos
Ψάθι G Psathi Psathi, Cyprus at Psathi, Paphos
93.109.171.237 (talk) 14:38, 24 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Future Perfect at Sunrise: could you tell me if this is helpful? It's fine if you don't wanna deal with the moves now of course, I just wanna know if I should do it for Nicosia and Limassol as well. 31.153.72.171 (talk) 19:39, 25 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. It's certainly useful, but it looks as if you are putting an awful lot of work into it. Wouldn't it be sufficient if you listed only those places that actually have some problem to be fixed? Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:43, 25 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Right, yeah. Well, those that are a) redirects and haven't got any notes or b) red links with an article elsewhere need to be fixed. I thought it'd be better to go about it methodically and use computer transliteration just in case I got something wrong. 31.153.72.171 (talk) 19:55, 25 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Limassol:
Name in Greek Source Translit. Resultant page title per WP:PLACE Is the page a redirect? Notes
Άγιος Αθανάσιος G Agios Athanasios Agios Athanasios, Cyprus
Άγιος Αμβρόσιος Λεμεσού G Agios Amvrosios Lemesou Agios Amvrosios, Limassol
Άγιος Γεώργιος Λεμεσού G Agios Georgios Lemesou Agios Georgios, Limassol
Άγιος Δημήτριος G Agios Dimitrios Agios Dimitrios, Cyprus
Άγιος Θεράπων G Agios Therapon Agios Therapon
Άγιος Θεόδωρος Λεμεσού G Agios Theodoros Lemesou Agios Theodoros, Limassol
Άγιος Θωμάς G Agios Thomas Agios Thomas, Cyprus
Άγιος Ιωάννης Λεμεσού G Agios Ioannis Lemesou Agios Ioannis, Limassol
Άγιος Κωνσταντίνος G Agios Konstantinos Agios Konstantinos, Cyprus
Άγιος Μάμας G Agios Mamas Agios Mamas
Άγιος Παύλος G Agios Pavlos Agios Pavlos, Cyprus at Ayios Pavlos, Limassol
Άγιος Τύχωνας L Agios Tychonas Agios Tychonas
Άλασσα G Alassa Alassa
Άρσος Λεμεσού G Arsos Lemesou Arsos, Limassol
Αγρίδια G Agridia Agridia
Αγρός G Agros Agros, Cyprus
Ακαπνού G Akapnou Akapnou
Ακρούντα G Akrounta Akrounta
Ακρωτήρι G Akrotiri Akrotiri (village)
Αλέκτορα G Alektora Alektora
Αμίαντος G Amiantos Amiantos
Ανώγυρα G Anogyra Anogyra
Απαισιά L Apaisia Apaisia at Apesia
Αρακαπάς G Arakapas Arakapas
Αρμενοχώρι G Armenochori Armenochori, Cyprus
Ασγάτα G Asgata Asgata
Ασώματος Λεμεσού G Asomatos Lemesou Asomatos, Limassol
Αυδήμου G Avdimou Avdimou
Αψιού G Apsiou Apsiou
Βάσα Κελλακίου G Vasa Kellakiou Vasa Kellakiou
Βάσα Κοιλανίου G Vasa Koilaniou Vasa Koilaniou
Βίκλα G Vikla Vikla
Βουνί G Vouni Vouni
Γεράσα G Gerasa Gerasa, Cyprus
Γερμασόγεια G Germasogeia Germasogeia
Γεροβάσα G Gerovasa Gerovasa
Διερώνα G Dierona Dierona
Δορά L Dora Dora, Cyprus
Δωρός G Doros Doros, Cyprus
Δύμες G Dymes Dymes
Επισκοπή Λεμεσού G Episkopi Lemesou Episkopi, Limassol
Επταγώνια L Eptagonia Eptagonia at Eptagoneia
Ερήμη G Erimi Erimi
Ζωοπηγή G Zoopigi Zoopigi
Κάτω Κυβίδες L Kato Kyvides Kato Kyvides one article for both at Kivides (should be Kyvides)
Κάτω Μύλος G Kato Mylos Kato Mylos
Κάτω Πλάτρες G Kato Platres Kato Platres one article for both at Platres
Κάτω Πολεμίδια G Kato Polemidia Kato Polemidia
Καλό Χωριό Λεμεσού G Kalo Chorio Lemesou Kalo Chorio, Limassol
Καμινάρια G Kaminaria Kaminaria
Καντού G Kantou Kantou, Cyprus
Καπηλειό G Kapileio Kapileio yes
Κελλάκι G Kellaki Kellaki
Κισσούσα G Kissousa Kissousa
Κλωνάρι G Klonari Klonari
Κοιλάνι G Koilani Koilani
Κολόσσι G Kolossi Kolossi
Κορφή G Korfi Korfi
Κουκά G Kouka Kouka, Cyprus
Κυπερούντα G Kyperounta Kyperounta
Λάνια L Lania Lania, Cyprus at Laneia
Λεμύθου L Lemythou Lemythou at Lemithou
Λιμνάτι L Limnati Limnati at Limnatis, Limassol
Λουβαράς G Louvaras Louvaras
Λόφου G Lofou Lofou
Μέσα Γειτονιά G Mesa Geitonia Mesa Geitonia
Μαθηκολώνη L Mathikoloni Mathikoloni
Μαλλιά L Mallia Mallia yes at Malia, Cyprus
Μανδριά Λεμεσού G Mandria Lemesou Mandria, Limassol
Μονάγρι G Monagri Monagri
Μονή G Moni Moni, Cyprus
Μοναγρούλλι G Monagroulli Monagroulli
Μονιάτης G Moniatis Moniatis
Μουτταγιάκκα L Mouttagiakka Mouttagiakka at Mouttagiaka
Πάνω Κυβίδες L Pano Kyvides Pano Kyvides one article for both at Kivides (should be Kyvides)
Πάνω Πλάτρες G Pano Platres Pano Platres yes one article for both at Platres
Πάνω Πολεμίδια G Pano Polemidia Pano Polemidia
Πάχνα G Pachna Pachna
Πέρα Πέδι G Pera Pedi Pera Pedi
Παλιόμυλος L Paliomylos Paliomylos yes at Palaiomylos
Παλώδια L Palodia Palodia at Palodeia
Παραμάλι G Paramali Paramali
Παραμύθα G Paramytha Paramytha
Παρεκκλησιά G Parekklisia Parekklisia
Πελένδρι G Pelendri Pelendri
Πεντάκωμο G Pentakomo Pentakomo
Πισσούρι G Pissouri Pissouri
Πλατανίσκια L Plataniskia Plataniskia at Platanisteia
Ποταμίτισσα G Potamitissa Potamitissa
Ποταμιού G Potamiou Potamiou
Πραστειό Αυδήμου G Prasteio Avdimou Prasteio Avdimou at Prastio (Avdimou)
Πραστειό Κελλακίου G Prasteio Kellakiou Prasteio Kellakiou at Prastio (Kellaki)
Πρόδρομος G Prodromos Prodromos, Cyprus
Πύργος Λεμεσού G Pyrgos Lemesou Pyrgos, Limassol
Σανίδα G Sanida Sanida
Σούνι – Ζανατζιά G Souni – Zanatzia Souni – Zanatzia at Souni-Zanakia
Σπιτάλι G Spitali Spitali
Συκόπετρα G Sykopetra Sykopetra
Συλίκου L Sylikou Sylikou at Silikou
Σωτήρα Λεμεσού G Sotira Lemesou Sotira, Limassol
Τραχώνι Λεμεσού G Trachoni Lemesou Trachoni, Limassol at Trachoni
Τρεις Εληές L Treis Elies Treis Elies
Τριμίκληνη G Trimiklini Trimiklini
Τσερκέζ Τσιφλίκ L Tserkez Tsiflik Tserkez Tsiflik at Tserkezoi
Φασούλα Λεμεσού G Fasoula Lemesou Fasoula, Limassol
Φοινί G Foini Foini
Φοινικάρια G Foinikaria Foinikaria
Χανδριά G Chandria Chandria
Όμοδος G Omodos Omodos
Ύψωνας G Ypsonas Ypsonas
31.153.72.171 (talk) 13:25, 27 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

For the sake of (relative) conciseness, here's the moves that I think should be made so far:

Moves that should probably be discussed or aren't quite as straightforward:

So that's it for now. I might do Nicosia in like a week's time. 31.153.72.171 (talk) 14:27, 27 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Future Perfect at Sunrise: I've had most of them done, but I believe the rest of these don't belong to WP:RM/TR. Also, I'd like for someone to check that I'm not misinterpreting any guideline, e.g. with using 'village' in place of the country. 213.7.147.34 (talk) 18:26, 7 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Transliteration of Ancient Greek

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It seem that Wikipedia policy for Ancient Greek Transliteration is The American Library Association and Library of Congress romanization scheme, namely ALA-LC. However, Wiktionary policy for Ancient Greek Transliteration is scientific transliteration scheme. This does inconvenience me. Can we unify policies here?

I have put up this problem in talk page of Wiktionary policy for Ancient Greek Transliteration. Maybe we need a vote or something. But the real problem may be that too many articles have already been written in these two policies in Wikipedia and Wikitionary respecitvely. We need a lot of work. --Qijiang ok (talk) 17:08, 20 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Diacritics

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Greetings. The relevant section states that "No diacritics should be used in Wikipedia article titles." What is the reason for this rule, please? Thanks in advance. -The Gnome (talk) 17:48, 24 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Capital Uncial Omega?

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I'm in the processes of replacing Roman letters in Greek Words with their proper greek equivalents. So, for example a B (Roman B) in a Greek word would be replaced with Β (Greek Beta). I ran into some problems with C, but it appears that the correct answer is to replace that with the capital Lunate Sigma. However I'm still running into a number of Ws (for example in the coin description Endubis). It appears that those should be replaced with the Capital Uncial Omega, but I'm having problems finding that to use in the article. I know this isn't an article naming question, but this still seems like the best place. Any ideas?

Greek words mentioned in Latin script form

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Hi. At Wikipedia:Typo Team/moss, we noticed that a lot of articles contain Greek words like tetartos, e.g. Archon (Gnosticism), Byzantine music, Echos, Hagiopolitan Octoechos, Nenano. Is this OK as-is (is there a template that can be used to language-tag it?) or should these articles be switched to use the Greek-script form τέταρτος? If this isn't the right page to ask at, I'd appreciate if you could move this question to wherever is best. -sche (talk) 21:36, 28 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Koine Greek

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What about Koine Greek? Which romanization it would follow?

—Yours sincerely, Soumyabrata 06:03, 16 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Proper for "W"

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In Africa–India relations, the note for the image says.

Coins of king Endybis, 227–235 AD. +. The left one reads in Greek "AΧWMITW BACIΛEYC", "King of Axum". The right one reads in Greek: ΕΝΔΥΒΙC ΒΑCΙΛΕΥC, "King Endybis".

I'd like to put the greek words into greek. I know that the "C" should actually be a Lunate Sigma. But what should the W be. I presume it is an alternate form of Omega, but I can't find that anywhere to copy it in.Naraht (talk) 11:03, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

ΒΑϹΙΛΕΥϹ ?

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This word shows up quite a bit in Wikipedia. Under what situation should it be done with the Lunate Sigma as shown above and in which with the (non-lunate sigma)?Naraht (talk) 16:19, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

{{lang|grc-Latn}} vs {{translit|grc}}

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This page recommends {{lang|grc-Latn}} for romanizations, but why not {{translit|grc}}? Wouldn't that be better? They're rendered the same visually, but they have different hover-text:

  • lang: Ancient Greek (to 1453)-language text
  • translit: Ancient Greek (to 1453)-language romanization

"romanization" seems more suitable to me.

Examples for reference: lang: oikos, translit: oikos

— W.andrea (talk) 19:47, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't have much to add, just replying to say that I agree that the {{transliteration}} template would make a lot more sense, hopefully we can get some consensus here to recommend it. TeoTB (talk) 20:31, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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