Wikipedia talk:Graphic Lab/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Note about Friendly IPs

An originality of the Graphic lab is that 2 friendly IP frequently contribute here :

• 68.39.174.238, IP from Newjersey : don't want an account.
  • Am now 76.117.247.55 (talk) 23:22, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
• 220.135.4.212 (new appart) : IP from Taiwan, old wikigraphist, use IP because currently in strike and wikibreak -___-.

The non-free bot (BJBot)

I've read through the archives and didn't come up with a definitive answer. Has anyone asked the bot operator to replace the image with a link instead of a copyright notice? I don't do a lot of work as I'm limited over here, but I'd like to atleat know what the image in question is when I pop by. I'm tempted to wonder if a {{nobots}} would work..heh Thoughts? §hep • ¡Talk to me! 23:27, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

I don't know if anyone has. There've been multiple bots working here... I supposed we could add "No bots" and just self-police images added? We just need a standard method of changing the requests with copyrighted images in them. 68.39.174.238 (talk) 00:06, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

It seems all that is needed is to replace [[Image:Copyrighted.jpg]] with [[:Image:Copyrighted.jpg]] instead of replacing it with another image. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 01:12, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Correction, {{bots}} won't work here. 68.39.174.238 (talk) 02:30, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Then I guess I'll talk to the bot op. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 18:36, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Changes made

My principal changes were to try and remove the sheer number of transclusions of pages. Things like /top are useful because they are applied on (almost) all pages, or should be. Others, like the languages box, are useful to have on a single page for ease of updating. However, things like /types was only included on the main page and this makes them harder to edit (Since you have to trace out the actual page name to edit it). I hope my partial changes are approved (Or at least not reverted as vandalous). 68.39.174.238 (talk) 02:29, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

OK I think I'm more or less done. I know there's been alot of changes, but the principal ones were the de-templatizing the main page. Many of the "templates" (which were all local) were only used on the main page and didn't really help with its organization. Also, some were pretty pointless (the shortcut one comes to mind). Also, I've created a new header to go on the graphic lab subpages, as can be see at the top of this page. It's at Wikipedia:Graphic Lab/top. It's shorter than the main page one and has a parameter so you can add some text to explain the particular page it's on. 68.39.174.238 (talk) 01:12, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for removing the single-use templates from the main page. They just complicated editing. --Timeshifter (talk) 00:08, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

The best thanks is the new cleanliness in prefixindex (Once all the ProDs expire) (Although I do appreciate yours). I think Wikipedia:Graphic Lab/shortcut takes the prize as the most useless "template" I have ever seen. 68.39.174.238 (talk) 22:55, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Image Renaming : your support is need !

See more: Commons:Rename

The convenient Image renaming function is highly requested since 2004 (!), the beggining of Commons. This function is NEED to ease images spreading and usage, and doable now by combining functions and bots already use on commons and wikipedia. Your support is need to underline this request : please, Add you name there~ Yug (talk) 14:23, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

I can easily imagine WikipediA without it, since it's where we are now! 68.39.174.238 (talk) 16:33, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

>0< ... that's why some people want to change it ^0^y Yug (talk) 15:43, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

MfD nomination of Wikipedia:Graphic Lab/shortcut

Wikipedia:Graphic Lab/shortcut, a page you substantially contributed to, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Graphic Lab/shortcut and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of Wikipedia:Graphic Lab/shortcut during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. -- Suntag ☼ 15:10, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

What's the benefit of SVG?

I posted this question on the help desk but couldn't get much help. So here it is: I believe there is a trend in Wikipedia to convert images (especially maps) into SVG format. However, I noticed that SVG files take several MBs while PNG files take few dozens of KBs. So what's the real benefit of SVG? Thank you. Eklipse (talk) 18:12, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

If only for this alone. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 20:08, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

I understood that, but isn't there any consideration for the huge size of SVG maps? Eklipse (talk) 05:35, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

SVG maps aren't actually what you see in your browser. MediaWiki converts the SVG map to a PNG map. The SVG format is the working format so that people can more easily convert maps for use in different languages. For more info please see Wikipedia:Graphic Lab/Resources/SVG. See also: Commons:File types#SVG. --Timeshifter (talk) 15:59, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. I asked this question because I tried to edit a SVG image and it came up to be 1.8 MB. Eklipse (talk) 16:23, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

If you're using Ffx, just keep clicking the image and you'll eventually get the image itself, which will be the SVG. 68.39.174.238 (talk) 22:39, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

A new header idea.

On all of the pages and subpages of this project, there's Wikipedia:Graphic Lab/header floating up there, but to me it appears as though it's most appropriate only for the main pages. I suggest this for the rest of the subpages:

Notice: The Graphics Lab is always in need of a helping hand; All are welcome to try their hand at the requests!

Graphic Lab/Archive 2

This (sub)page is part of Graphics Lab, a project to improve the graphical content of the Wikimedia projects. More information about the lab can be found on it's main page and requests page. To ask questions or make a suggestions, see the main talk page. To request an image improvement, use the requests page.

Also, if this is made into a sub-page like header that can be transcluded, it could be possible to add a parameter so the purpose of the page can be specified: {{subheader|[...]}} would add a final sentence to the section describing the specific page. 68.39.174.238 (talk) 19:35, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. I suggest you be bold and go for it! --Timeshifter (talk) 17:23, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Could you create the subpage for me? I'll do the rest... Thanx, 68.39.174.238 (talk) 23:39, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Subpages are created by going to the page that you want to be the main page for the subpage. I suggest Wikipedia:Graphic Lab. It looks like most header templates are using it as the main page. On that main page click any edit button. Then type in

[[/NAME OF SUBPAGE]]

The key part is the forward slash. Click the preview button. A red link will show up. Click the red link and then enter some info on that page to start it. Save the page. Viola! You have a subpage. Use its name with curly brackets to put the header wherever you want. --Timeshifter (talk) 18:46, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

That would be great if it wasn't "Unauthorized". 68.39.174.238 (talk) 19:18, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Can I ask why you don't want a user name? Nowadays it is completely anonymous. One picks a name and a password, and that is it. No other info is required. You can sign in and out at anytime. Even if you decide to leave an email address you can choose whether it is public or not. --Timeshifter (talk) 19:29, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Still need the page made? §hep • ¡Talk to me! 20:42, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Graphic Lab/top is now being used for that purpose. 68.39.174.238 (talk) 00:58, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Personal Vectorization request

Hello, I can't find anyone more qualified. I have a personal request, can you vectorize this barcode? http://kirbywarp.googlepages.com/Barcode16.jpg Contact me at kirbywarp[spam, remove this box]@gmail.com

    ~     WaddleDee (talk) 00:08, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Why? What does it represent? 68.39.174.238 (talk) 04:31, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

It is just a personal request. It represents my personal id barcode on campus, and I want to get creative with it. :) If you can do this, then Thank You

~ WaddleDee (talk) 02:17, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

It's such a simple image, you could probably use use "Trace" in Inkscape and get an almost exact representation of it yourself. 68.39.174.238 (talk) 02:21, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Hmm Ok, I will try that... But I would feel more comfortable useing one made by someone who knows how...

~ WaddleDee (talk) 02:22, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

The point is, it's so simple that the differences between yours and someone elses will probably almost nonexistant. 68.39.174.238 (talk) 16:03, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

I just tried doing it in inkscape right now. I could not get it to work... I tried to use trace but it didn't work. Could I just get some help??? I am new to ALL of this. WaddleDee (talk) 01:12, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Here you go: http://vyznev.net/misc/Barcode16.svg —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 02:18, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank You!!!!!!!!!!!!! This helps soo much. WaddleDee (talk) 05:08, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Announcement for Graphic Lab Volunteers

Wikipedia ads	file info – #156

{{Wikipedia ads|ad=156}} Author: MMXX

Wikipedia ads	file info – #150

{{Wikipedia ads|ad=150}} Author: L'Aquatique

We have two banners/ads for Graphic Lab, volunteers and users who are interested in attracting more requester and volunteers to Graphic Lab and Image Workshop can add {{Wikipedia ads|ad=156}} or {{Wikipedia ads|ad=150}} to their userpage.   ■ MMXX^talk  15:19, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

For the first one, it should be "At the Graphics Lab", "Image workshop" is just the name of a subpage. 68.39.174.238 (talk) 01:50, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

But for requesters the Image Workshop is main page, and the ad is also linked to Image Workshop. actually this ad is just for attracting requesters not volunteers.   ■ MMXX^talk  09:51, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

When adding a copyrighted image to the page...

File:Grahpic Lab Copyright.svg

Requesters add copyrighted images to this page pretty frequently. I was thinking of giving them a template to use to avoid getting the image link removed. What do you guys think about something like this, where they would just have to type something like {{GLCOPY|Name.ext}} and be done with a result like this? This sound reasonable or should I just flush it? §hep • ¡Talk to me! 22:52, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

I dislike the current icon, but something like that would be OK. It would also be nice if we could get one of the copyright botts to recognize the template/page and use that instead of the current, very broken, attempt to comment the image out. 68.39.174.238 (talk) 01:48, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Ya, I'm not too hot on the image either. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 02:12, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

I tried this, but keep getting black boxes. I'm not sure what went wrong in the text..any ideas? §hep • ¡Talk to me! 14:25, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

One comment: Can anyone even try to read that text when in a gallery? I suggest changing it to just "WP:NFCC" or something very short and easily read. 68.39.174.238 (talk) 19:38, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

It was in the metadata. I made the changes as you suggested, and left a note on the image page for those who click it. I tried to make the image link to WP:NFCC, but imagemaps and tumbnails don't work well together. If you think it should be linked there I'll see what I can do though. (I placed it in the graphics lab so you can test readability) §hep • ¡Talk to me! 20:35, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Idea, instead of the big text block, how about "This was a fair use image [cr]WP:NFCC" ? Or is this getting to be too much? 68.39.174.238 (talk) 00:15, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Now I'm confused. I thought we didn't want a lot fo text? How about you make something that you think would work, upload it online, and then I can upload it here? I really don't mind what the image looks like? §hep • ¡Talk to me! 03:00, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

It was just a suggestion so newbies who got sent to NFCC knew what to look for. Maybe we need a special page "WP:Why did my image get replaced by a copyright sign?" to explain WHY we do that :)? 68.39.174.238 (talk) 02:35, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Question on this strange image

Image:Simplex4051FirealarmOld.jpg. On my browser (Ffx 3.0.3), the image at the top is completely different from the thumbnails of the image revisions. Also, if you click on the past revision images, you get the current image. Was there something I missed here? 68.39.174.238 (talk) 03:38, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

These are two completely different image uploaded in one place, but the image at top should match with thumbnail of the image revisions at top, try emptying your cache or refresh page by (Ctrl+F5)..New,Old   ■ MMXX^talk  10:16, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Fixed; thanx, 68.39.174.238 (talk) 01:46, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

A new question

For Image:WindowsHomeServer (Server Storage).png, the last thumbnails appear to have disappeared. Is this normal? 68.39.174.238 (talk) 20:51, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

for me also the 27Nov , 17Nov and 12Jan thumbnails are disappeared, I think it is temporary, I had this same problem a couple of times before but now they are ok.   ■ MMXX^talk  05:34, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Problem?

Is it just me or are some finished requests taking forever to get archived? 68.39.174.238 (talk) 06:34, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

request for a new image for non articles

I would like a "speedy keep" icon for voting based on this image but replacing the delete icon with the keep icon--Ipatrol (talk) 20:14, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

I am copying this request to the Image Workshop Mfield (talk) 20:27, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

[PGFp] error

Just a minute ago I tried opening an svg file do complete a request, but unfortunately my AI returned the following message: "The operation cannot complete because of an unknown error. [PGFp]" What could it be and how do I open the image? --Ahnode (talk) 01:30, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Buggy SVG to PNG conversion?

Hi, I noticed that the PNG rendering of this image that should be showing a spiral doesn't show it. But when I open the original SVG in Firefox, I can see it. It seems to me that there is a bug in the SVG to PNG converter and it probably wasn't there in some older version of the converter, because rendering of old revision of that image shows the spiral. Can someone help me with that?

(At first I thought that the error is in the new revision of the file, that's why there are two reverts of the image from me.) Svick (talk) 22:00, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Video tutorials : a Graphic lab job ?

Some news on this video side... 1. a really helpful soft, 2. Wikimedia will work to provide online video tutorials.

A soft to record your desktop -> tutorials

Example of tutorial for Gif animation, made using Recordmydesktop.

Recordmydesktop is an Open Source software utility which allows users to record the contents of their computer screen in a video. It is often used to create videos for tutorials and guides. Its packtage name is " gtk-recordmydesktop " . Tutorial produce in this way cost 0 $US ;)

Wikimedia making video tutorial

Wikimedia just annouced on his blog that they will work to create video tutorials in the form of short online video clip. This will encourage people to jump into the wiki-editor side.

Critics (own opinion)

I'm personally critic face to this later strategy-only policy, which will for sure be costly. A large system of scholarships/rewards for outstanding wikigraphists, offering them 30 US$ historical atlas, book, graphic tablet or microphone, or grant 30$ to boots the translation of some existing hight quality tutorials would have be possible with far less money (300 US$ = 10 books = 10 outstanding graphists rewarded ; 200 US$ = 10 pages translates).

In the same style of 'profesionnal graphic project', the 20.000 US$ Project Greenspun have produce about a dozen of images within its 15 first months. On their side, the 0 US$ founded French and Deutsch Graphic labs alone have produce -AT LEAST- 5.500 images (3000 images, 2500 maps) within their 3 years of work, from which some hundred are recognized of an hight quality.

Give the graphists an hand (books, tools, translation help,...) would be both encouraging, interesting, and profitable.

Yug (talk) 14:27, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Non-free content and SVG

This encounter got me thinking, specifically the phrase We vectoirize logos here all the time, it's never been an issue. Why? What is the purpose of vectorizing non-free logos? WP:FUC #3b states Low- rather than high-resolution/fidelity/bit rate is used (especially where the original could be used for deliberate copyright infringement). The only reason I can think of vectorizing non-free logos would be to improve the quality/resolution of the image. I would propose that in the future, users who want a non-free image vectorized should provide some sort of rational and really consider why they need the work done, and I would ask that wikigraphists be more willing to turn down non-free work if it is simply an attempt to get a higher resolution non-free image (especially by means of SVG). Perhaps we could add some text at the top of Wikipedia:Graphic Lab/Image workshop and Wikipedia:Graphic Lab, reminding users who want work on non-free/fair use images of WP:FUC. Something like:

• "If you want to request work on an image that does not have a free license, please keep in mind our fair use criteria, and consider adding a rational for why the work need to be done. Additionally, please do not post thumbnails of non-free images, but instead link directly to the image page."

It just seems like, since the images are non-free, and for the most part the raster images clearly works to identify the subject to the extent that we need it to, everyone's time could be better spent.-Andrew c ^[talk] 21:47, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Vectorized images can also be edited alot easier than a raster image, especially if someone spots an error in it. Also, it is possible that a logo will require inflation to highlight some interesting part of it (I don't have any examples, but it might happen). Finally, noone is required to work on any request, so if you feel vectorizing logos is a waste, its fine it ignore it. 76.117.247.55 (talk) 23:29, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Note that the English lab is the sole Lab to work on non Free image. French wiki also have some fair use image, host on fr.wikipedia.org, but wikigraphist have long time ago state that they don't want spend time on such images.

Indeed, this non-free images:

• have limited use (number of pages allow for Fair use image usage = 1)
• other wikis will probably not be able to use them (don't accept US fair use images);
• are rarely of any knowledge-share value (contrary to schemes, maps, etc.),
• fair use image generaly imply to keep low quality image, so SVG are not need, and even discouraged.

accordingly, is it need to us to spend time on such "private" requests ? I personnally don't think so. Yug (talk) 10:53, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Assuming the person isn't requesting we do something obviously illegitimate (EG. Work on a copyrighted image with no valid fair use), it seems to be up to individual artists to do so or not. If people were assigned to work on images, then it would be more of a concern. 76.117.247.55 (talk) 02:06, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

DyceBot

I would like to point out nothing is being archived. I think Dycebot died or something. --SelfQ (talk) 17:19, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

I noted to their talk page on that. We will see... 76.117.247.55 (talk) 18:06, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, computer problem, couldn't access the internet. It's fixed now.--Dycedarg ж 14:15, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Translation

I see a few requests in your input queue to translate text embedded in graphics. You might like to consider Template:Annotated image:

• Translation can be done by local editors. For example I sold the idea to a Dutch editor and the result was this, which is now used in several places.
• The text is real text and much clearer than embedded text ususally is.
• The actual image is part of the "canvas" on which annotations are added. So e.g. you can add a "legend" that explains colour-coding or numbered features.
• If the image is re-sized for layout reasons, you just move annotations to match.
• The template can also be used to crop and zoom. --Philcha (talk) 09:45, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Need Japanese Lab

File:Crystal ark.png

Japanese user ? We now need a Japanese Graphic lab. Please, help to create one ! (you can translate from the commons one, or the English G.Lab)

File:Crystal ark.png

In short, East Asia is the only higly wiki-active area without Graphic labs. Japanese manga admirative japanese users may provide an helpful new view :] Yug (talk) 11:05, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

That link is dead... should it point directly to the name of the page and not the shortcut? 76.117.247.55 (talk) 23:53, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

WP:DERM

I recently started the Dermatology task force and want to create a subpage for the taskforce that addresses dermatologic photos, giving guidelines/recommendations for good images. On that page I was simply going to link over to Wikipedia_talk:Featured_picture_criteria, but also wanted to added a few comments specifically geared towards dermatologic photos (like something about always having a ruler, etc in the picture to keep size in perspective, etc.). I also found a paper online (see [1]) and thought I could integrate some of its pointers into the page. However, I am a dermatologist, not professional photographer, and therefore wanted to know if you, or any of your friends, would help me develop this page? kilbad (talk) 21:26, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

jy

Some thoughs on the GL/I workshop introduction....

I've recently started working in the image lab and find I enjoy it generally. I had a glance around at some of the other language image labs and was quite impressed by the French lab...one thing that stands out to me is the introduction at the top of the lab page [2], it's extremely clear and gives people coming to the page quite precise instructions. The current English page to me seems a little cluttered and some of the extremely important issues (like licensing and marking images as resolved) appear in quite small font and seem a little lost. I hope this is not seen as a negative criticism, just some thoughts for possible improvement. Regards... --Goldsztajn (talk) 02:24, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

A few other thoughts: would it be worthwhile having some kind of "on-duty" indicator? Would it be worthwhile having some kind of tag that can be placed on a request which says something to the effect of "graphist at work"? Perhaps an image of a stamped ticket etc? Or construction sign equivalent? --Goldsztajn (talk) 03:02, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

The problem with indicators is that when people go "off duty", they frequently forget to update them. As to the instructions, could we insert them into an editnotice, like they have for the P:CE edit links? 76.117.247.55 (talk) 05:45, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Online Raster-to-Vector Conversion System

(Discussion moved from Talk:Scalable Vector Graphics#Online Raster-to-Vector Conversion System)

I ran across the following webpage today: Online Raster-to-Vector Conversion System. On this webpage, you select an image from your hard drive, tweak the settings, upload, everything gets traced, and a downloadable SVG file of the image is created. I thought this webpage might be helpful, a time saver, and effective for people who do not have or wat to have Inkscape (with it's "tracing" ability, or so I have read) or similar programs installed and like me are totally clueless when it comes to creating SVG fies. When I look at the output file, I have no idea if it is nicely done or just a jumble of unhelpful junk. Would someone who already understands how to create and/or read SVG files test out this website on a couple of simple graphics that fit the standards of needing conversion and reply back here? (My reason for asking for someone who already knows how to create SVG files is so that a fair comparison can be made between the two and not get a bunch of "Yes. It works." comments because I obviously already know that it works.) — CobraWiki ^{( jabber | stuff )} 06:40, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

You can see stuff others have used it for. You could probably tweak the settings and not end up with something that looks like it's made with crayons (original). But it still won't detect text and the output is thus actually worse than a raster image both in size and in rendering time... --Execvator (talk) 12:20, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

These kind of converters rarely if ever create a better version than the original. The point of preferring the SVG format on Wikipedia is that they are several orders of magnitude smaller than the raster equivalents and far higher quality when they are created by a person. SVG's created using automated methods are usually larger files of lower quality than the original raster in which case they shouldn't be uploaded to Wikipedia as a replacement. _ɹəəpıɔnı 14:18, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Yea, I can see that after doing an extra test. I first converted File:Pangaea continents.png (in grayscale, eliminating the "water" background, and without the text) and the upload put out a 200+ KB SVG file. I then did a quick trace and fill copy of the image, uploaded, and the output was only around 10KB. As I said, not knowing anything about SVG files, it was worth a shot. Thanks for taking the time to look. — CobraWiki ^{( jabber | stuff )} 17:35, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Actually, on second thoughts, after playing around with that tool a little, it certainly seems like the best tool of its type that I've seen. Obviously care should be taken that there is a valid reason for uploading an SVG to replace an existing raster image - i.e. it's of higher quality and preferably smaller - but I think that tool could potentially render some quite good SVGs. _ɹəəpıɔnı 19:50, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Well yes, obviously there should be a good reason for uploading an SVG. There is no shortage of files that people think should be converted. Over 20,000 suggested files are in this category. Such a backlog tells me that the site needs all of the help that they can get (though not haphazardly done) if use of SVG format is so important. — CobraWiki ^{( jabber | stuff )} 07:02, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Is there any "guideline page" specifying when a raster image should be replaced, and when it shouldn't? - For example:

• SVG file should be equal to or greater than the original raster in visual quality when viewed at the same scale
• SVG file should be equal to or smaller than the original raster in file size

.... that should just about do it. Are there any other criteria? _ɹəəpıɔnı 17:30, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

About vector conversion

Is there an advice page to people who work here? I'm thinking there should be an addition to it warning about blindly tracing rasters. I admit it is a legitimate tool, but always with a final manual cleanup. 76.117.247.55 (talk) 01:34, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

This is probably the closest thing to it, but it seems more aimed at teaching new users how to use Inkscape rather than giving advice to current graphists on uploading standards. A separate Uploading standards page (there's a red link to a page with a similar title here, can't find it in deletion logs though) with advice on what methods to use/not use (i.e. tracing), caveats in their use and also perhaps info on Wikipedia's rsvg version, and it's level of SVG support (to reduce the amount of stuff uploaded that's incompatible with rsvg).

Btw, if such a page already exists, then it needs to be more clearly advertised as I haven't stumbled across it yet. _ɹəəpıɔnı 05:34, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Let's create it then! 76.117.247.55 (talk) 17:46, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Right. I'm quite inexperienced when it comes to Wikipedia edits, so please dive in and fix everything I've done wrong by you with this (and add to it also of course): Wikipedia:Graphic Lab/Resources/Uploading standards (I copied it from Wikipedia:Graphic Lab/Resources/Advice - put it under Resources to keep it consistent with how the other pages are laid out. _ɹəəpıɔnı 20:24, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

I've made some changes and added 2 points. I'm not sure how to point people to this, however. 76.117.247.55 (talk) 02:12, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Great stuff. Well I added it to Wikipedia:Graphic Lab/Resource list box for a start. Maybe putting a few words on the frontpage as well might do no harm.

I'm just curious; you added the line: "It is hoped the developers will fix this" to the end. Is this the librsvg devs fixing the Windows CRLF incompatibility, or Wikipedia choosing a better converter than librsvg. I'm assuming the latter. _ɹəəpıɔnı 19:41, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

The librsvgers ofcourse; local changes only cover over the inherent problem of poor programing. 76.117.247.55 (talk) 00:45, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

SVG does'nt look nice

(Discussion moved from Talk:Scalable Vector Graphics#SVG does'nt look nice - please feel free to move elswhere if there's somewhere more suitable, this is the best I could think of)

I think PNG is better than SVG when it comes to using thumbnails or icons. Take this as example: Current, Old Revision. Which one do you think is better ? I think I've better delete the SVG image that I've uploaded, lol. Arteyu ? _{Blame it on me !} 19:32, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Alas the fault lies not with SVG, but with the Wikipedia software. Wikipedia doesn't display SVGs in articles at all (yet), as they're not well supported by all browsers, instead it uses conversion software to convert them into PNG. Unfortunately the software they use (rsvg) is not particularly good - it has problems with fonts in particular. So the SVG converted to PNG is often of lower quality than the original PNG. Your unconverted SVG is still of high quality though. It's just a pity Wikipedia are not yet using SVGs in articles. _ɹəəpıɔnı 19:48, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm using Firefox 3.0.10 in Ubuntu Linux 8.10. I see the two team emblems as SVG images in the current version of that page, and they look slightly sharper than the PNGs in the older revision (which already look perfect). It must be the browser/OS combinations you guys are using. I believe WP's servers detect these in the HTTP request headers and decide whether to send the real SVG or the converted PNG. I guess you're using IE in MS Windows? Try Firefox in Windows at least, just to see how nice it can be. --Nigelj (talk) 20:30, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Ahh, OK, I was wrong there. Each link is to the svg page, but the images are converted (.svg.png). They still look slightly sharper than the originals, though. On the svg pages I can click the link to the real svg below the big .svg.png image and see the real .svg image, complete with a 'view source' option that shows the XML, though. I thought the WP software was cleverer than that. Mmmm. --Nigelj (talk) 20:43, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

"I guess you're using IE in MS Windows? Try Firefox in Windows at least, just to see how nice it can be" - dear god no. I'm using Opera, the software with the highest SVG support of any renderer. You should try it, "just to see how nice it can be" ;)

"I thought the WP software was cleverer than that" - I think it might be (i.e. the MediaWiki package that you can download here and use may have this option) - but if it does Wikipedia doesn't use it. Instead, Wikipedia converts it using software that only supports around 50-60% of SVG. Genius. _ɹəəpıɔnı 21:06, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Ok, slight correction. The reason behind Wikipedia's conversion to PNG is a Firefox bug. It doesn't allow the inclusion of SVGs in HTML pages as IMGs like all other browsers do, so the only alternative for Firefox users would be crude un-sized OBJECTs. Which would defy the point. The Firefox bug is listed here, if you want to track it. When it gets fixed, maybe we'll see real SVGs in the Wiki. _ɹəəpıɔnı 21:24, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for all that background, Lucideer. (Going even further off-topic now...) A five-year old bug!! Somewhere in the middle of their discussion someone used Wikipedia as an example as to why it should be implemented sometime soon. With FLOSS foot-dragging on that scale, even Microsoft had time to inflict Silverlight on the rest of us. Ho-hum. Still, did you notice that the bug was actually assigned to somebody two days ago? --Nigelj (talk) 22:05, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Target milestone mozilla1.9.2a1 - AKA Firefox 3.6, excellent news. Thanks for highlighting that Nigel, I hadn't noticed. So with the release of Firefox 3.6, SVGs in Wikipedia articles will be a realistic possibility and Graphic Lab's vector work could finally see the light of day. _ɹəəpıɔnı 22:38, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Can I reduce Svg's & Png's image size online ?

Can someone tell me any online site that I can possibly do it ? Arteyu ? _{Blame it on me !} 06:07, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

PNG's can be compressed with PNGGauntlet. With SVGs, the best strategy is to create a small file in the first place. Understanding SVG markup is the base tool for understanding why an SVG might be overly large, they are just text files so you can open them up and remove superfluous markup if you know how. Otherwise, just make sure you read this and try and keep the originally created image small. _ɹəəpıɔnı 00:28, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Make this file transparent

Could someone please make this file transparent, File:Soccerball mask.svg ? As for the soccerball, I want the background to be transparent because it take up spaces. If it can't be transparent, maybe any of you can help me to cut a bit the white background so that it fits the soccerball size. The file is from commons, and if any of you know any help pages that you think you can forward this question to, fell free to do it. (I have been asked to reirect the question here) Arteyu ? _{Blame it on me !} 10:16, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

I've already forwarded the question to Wikipedia:Graphic Lab/Image workshop, sorry Arteyu ? _{Blame it on me !} 10:23, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

SVG newbie seeks advice

Hello. I wanted to make a contribution to this area of WP and gain some experience of SVG editing with Inkscape. I've taken my first steps but this may be a good point to pause and make sure I'm going in the right directions.

I picked File:R24.png as just about the simplest useful image on WP: the electronic component symbol for a resistor. Name R24.svg is blacklisted (too simple and ambiguous?) so I uploaded my effort as File:CircuitR24.svg. Your comments would be very welcome.

I've edited File:R24.png ‎to show there is a vector version available. I've also edited the description page for File:Conn12.png, one of many places R24 is used, to use the SVG instead. I realise the other files which use R24 will need editing too but first I want to check my work so far, and perhaps include future Circuit*.svg files in a single edit to each page which uses them.

Certes (talk) 23:20, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Hey Certes, that seems fine, the only small comment I'd have would be to use Inkscape's Save as "Plain SVG" option. This omits some (unfortunately not all) of the superfluos nonsense that inkscape puts into the file sourcecode.

For such a small simple image as that it makes little difference, but in future for larger more complex images it can make a massive difference in filesize. Just as a demonstration, your file is about 3.6kb (tiny), but about 2.6kb of that is unneccesary markup and metadata. Here's the actual (1kb) code that creates your image:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" standalone="no"?><svg xmlns:svg="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="37" height="37" version="1.0"><g transform="translate(5.0625,-652.875)"><path d="M 12.9375,652.875 L 12.9375,656.595 C 12.9375,656.595 18.3375,659.375 18.3375,659.375 C 18.3375,659.375 6.3375,665.375 6.3375,665.375 C 6.3375,665.375 18.3375,671.375 18.3375,671.375 C 18.3375,671.375 6.3375,677.375 6.3375,677.375 C 6.3375,677.375 18.3375,683.375 18.3375,683.375 C 18.3375,683.375 12.9375,686.155 12.9375,686.155 C 12.9375,686.155 12.9375,689.875 12.9375,689.875 C 12.9375,689.875 13.895074,689.91743 13.9375,689.875 C 13.9375,689.875 13.9375,686.595 13.9375,686.595 C 13.9375,686.595 20.5375,683.375 20.5375,683.375 C 20.5375,683.375 8.5375,677.375 8.5375,677.375 C 8.5375,677.375 20.5375,671.375 20.5375,671.375 C 20.5375,671.375 8.5375,665.375 8.5375,665.375 C 8.5375,665.375 20.5375,659.375 20.5375,659.375 C 20.5375,659.375 13.9375,656.155 13.9375,656.155 C 13.9375,656.155 13.9375,652.875 13.9375,652.875 L 12.9375,652.875 z" /></g></svg>

As I said, of no importance for a small simple image, but potentially significant for large complex ones. _ɹəəpıɔnı 15:33, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, that's a useful tip. I did look at the XML but was unsure which header lines were needed. I'm used to the concept (from pruning a word processor's attempts at HTML) but it's good to know how Inkscape can identify most of the chaff for me. Certes (talk) 21:23, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Ah, you're familiar with trawling through bloated markup, that's good experience to have here. Inkscape's Plain SVG option removes a lot (gets the above file down to 1.4kb), but it doesn't get everything. Namely:

• it defines consecutively numbered id attributes for every single element, regardless of whether they're ever used (they're occasionally used for filters and gradients, but despite that never).
• it unnecessarily defines "default styles" for every element, things like fill-opacity:1; when the default fill-opacity value is always one anyway.
• it uses inline styles exclusively. If you hand-write an SVG file with document-level CSS styles and then open it in inkscape, inkscape annoyingly deletes all your nicely organised styles and inserts them in inline style attributes. Say you have an image with 100 repeated elements with the same style rules it's just repeating the same thing over and over.

Rant over. Good luck with your graphisting. I'd recommend trying out hand-writing an SVG as this gives you a good idea of how they're structured which actually helps when you're using Inkscape (the functions in the interface are designed around SVGs features, if you understand what code makes a certain image you'll be able to see what Inkscape functions make what code and make better, more efficient SVGs) _ɹəəpıɔnı 23:25, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks again. I've finished converting Omegatron's small set of images to simple SVG following your advice. Their main use is on an abandoned project so I probably got more benefit from the exercise than WP did, but I'm ready to do something more useful when time permits. Certes (talk) 23:47, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

I've now hand-written a couple of more useful images: File:111USHouseStructure.svg and File:Redlinkrecoveryteam.svg. I've asked for feedback from the original authors before using them to replace the originals, but again comments from the more experienced graphists here would be welcome. Certes (talk) 22:49, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

With respect to the House of Representatives image, standard practice is to put the total number of seats in the well, instead of the name of the legislature, which is generally indicated by filename and image caption. 76.117.247.55 (talk) 03:53, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Certes, I'm not familiar with standard practice regarding political houses, but the code in that first image is a work of art. _ɹəəpıɔnı

To 76.117.247.55: I know little about US government, so I made the SVG convey the same information as the PNG. Feel free to improve the text, but you may want to mention the idea to Aricci526 first. Certes (talk) 11:17, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

To Lucideer: that's a huge compliment! I asked the original author and got a helpful reply which mentions a similar Inkscape SVG. I think the main problem is that someone else will need to update the image whenever the real world changes, and my effort is too easy to break using Inkscape or similar tools. How do other wikigraphists make future editing as painless as possible? Certes (talk) 11:17, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Where to go with OGGs?

I think it would be useful if someone cleaned up File:Thich Quang Duc.ogg, but should I ask here or somewhere else? It Is Me Here ^{t / c} 11:59, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

I really don't know if there is such a thing as the WpA audio workshop. Maybe ask on the WP:RD/C reference desk? 76.117.247.55 (talk) 19:05, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

The people v. SVG assorted trace function, et al.

I prefer, to the Grand Jury, the charge of it being open to substantially more infringing than noninfringing use.

Evidences: Image:Coat of arms of Australia.svg v. Image:Australian Coat of Arms.png.

Charge(s): willfully confuzing the public, excessive use of space and bandwidth, and debauching a standard.

Penalty: Left to the discretion of the Judge and Jury. 76.117.247.55 (talk) 19:07, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

WOW. That is an absolute travesty. That file should be deleted. Ideally svgs should ALWAYS be smaller than the originals (maps can be quite complex admittedly, but their extra size is usually caused by them actually having more added detail than the original - exact copies should be smaller always, and even maps can probably be made small enough with care), but I'd say a reasonable enough measure would be to put a limit of say, 1.5x the original file-size on SVGs replacing PNGs.

Given that the example above is over 15 times the size, it should really be deleted post haste. That's my vote. It's also of significantly lower quality than the original PNG. _ɹəəpıɔnı 19:43, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

There any possibility of improving the SVG piecemeal, or is it just hopeless? 76.117.247.55 (talk) 15:54, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

I had a go there. Could only get it down to about 5-6MB. Problem is, the original png was never suitable for vectorising in the first place. Whoever tagged it as {{svg}} evidently didn't understand what would be involved. It looks to be a scan of a painting or drawing, not a digitally created image. The iteration in the files history is an embedded raster!! Perhaps some cautions on usage of the {{svg}} template._ɹəəpıɔnı 09:13, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

I know it can't be possible to get it to look like the scan, but can it be simplified (IE. Remove some shading that is both unofficial and artistic licence)? I know when the Chilian coat was done, the SVG had alot less shading than the JPG (For obvious reasons). 76.117.247.55 (talk) 23:51, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

A photo-realistic PNG can grow when you emulate it in SVG and I'm not sure what'll improve it. I think I already have some feel for which images should be converted and which shouldn't, but is there some clear guidance that we could signpost more boldly? Perhaps we could even a less formal essay: would anyone care to write WP:Don't vectorise the emus? Certes (talk) 11:26, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

If you start the page, I'll fill it in! One request, make it "Don't SVGify" so we avoid the "-ise"/"-ize" dispute. 76.117.247.55 (talk) 23:52, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Some guidance to attempt to prevent this sort of thing happening in future would be welcome, though how successful remains a question. However, as far as the quoted example (Australian coat of arms) is concerned, I second the proposal to delete it. The problem that leaves is what to do about the hundreds of pages which link to it. I have edited several pages, including the templates Template:Politics of Australia sidebar and Politics of Australia to point at the png version. As far as I can tell most of the "what links here" pages seem to link only indirectly through those templates, but the "what links here" page for the svg file has not updated, and still shows many (probably hundreds of) pages that link indirectly via the templates. Does anyone know of a way to check what really links here, short of checking each page manually? Alternatively does anyone know if we can expect the link page to update soon? JamesBWatson (talk) 14:47, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't know if the Commons find use tool traces through templates. I do know that changing the template uses will remove ~90+% of CoA uses. 76.117.247.55 (talk) 19:25, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

@Certes,76.117.247.55

I started the WP:Graphic Lab/Resources/Uploading standards page which is kind of related to this. Either drawing on that in an essay or expanding on it and then advertising it's existence would be good.

I'll have a look at the Chilean coat, but I really don't see the point of replacing a perfectly good PNG which serves it's purpose, with a simplified vector graphic. The shading here is quite nice. I suppose it's a subjective issue though, I don't know. _ɹəəpıɔnı 22:33, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Take a look @ the United States seal SVGs and tell me if they're better than the .JPG they replaced. It IS possible to make an artistical, good looking SVG replacement for rasters. Also, given that coats are officially usually described by blazon, I think there is a fair latitude in the colors, shadings, etc. and the guarantee that a well-executed SVG will never look pixelated (Which is shudderworthy for most people) should make up for the difference. 76.117.247.55 (talk) 19:25, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Referring to the Australian coat of arms, a user above said "could only get it down to about 5-6MB". OK, that is still not good, but it is better than the current 10.32MB: could we have a 5-6MB version uploaded? JamesBWatson (talk) 07:14, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Hey James, I was that user, but have since deleted the effort as it seemed a waste. To be honest my opinion is that the SVG should be (a) deleted as a raster format is more suitable for this particular image or (b) should be vectorised in the style of other coats - ignoring th original raster image and just following the design tenets of the coat of said country from scratch. I'll have a go at doing (b) later on, but I also think there was talk (either above or below) of keeping the 10MB one as an example of "what not to do". _ɹəəpıɔnı 14:01, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Good. On the whole I prefer (a), but certainly (b) would be much better than the present situation. I can see a case for keeping the present file as an example of what not to do, but if so I should give it a filename which clearly indicates it is not to be used. Or is that so obvious that you wonder why I am bothering to mention it? JamesBWatson (talk) 17:40, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

I strongly suggest keeping it as a cautionary tale (Reuploaded by someone else, so as to not unduly embarrass the original author), but with a name like "BAD VERSION - Austrialian CoA.svg" or something similar and a note on the image page explaining why it shouldn't be deleted. Contributions/76.117.247.55 (talk) 20:08, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Also, thanx for trying to (re)do it correctly. Contributions/76.117.247.55 (talk) 20:08, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Prevention of Trouble (SVGs ("Trace bitmap" function)) Act 2009, first reading

I support the existence of 2 pages:

• The current Wikipedia:Graphic Lab/Resources/Uploading standards for internal use
  • How do we advertize this to prevent ill-advised SVGifications?
• A page, like Wikipedia:Don't SVGify the emus, to generally explain this problem to the public and all users. You might want to retain part of that Austrialian CoA as a demonstration of what shouldn't be done (A different name would be preferable, EG. "Image:NEVER DO THIS.SVG").

76.117.247.55 (talk) 19:25, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

OK, I've started User talk:76.117.247.55/SVG debauchery since I can't start pages in Wikipedia: space; anyone is free to edit it. Contributions/76.117.247.55 (talk) 20:21, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

CfD nomination of Category:Images for redraw

I have nominated Category:Images for redraw (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at the discussion page. Thank you. ZooFari 05:39, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

New category added

A new category, Category:SVGs for cleanup, has been added for efficiency and reducing backlog of Category:Images for cleanup. You can help transfer SVGs from IFC to SVGs for cleanup. The template for the new category is {{CleanSVG|1=reason}}. ZooFari 02:00, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks ZooFari, that's a useful clarification. Is there an easy way to list SVGs in subcategories of IFC? It takes a while to search through the galleries, and we're likely to miss the one captioned "ExceedinglyLongName.sv..." Certes (talk) 09:05, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

I was considering listing SVGs in IFC, but figured it is way better as a separate category. IFC has a huge backlog, and having SVGs in its own category allows us to place subcats like "SVGs with inappropriate dimensions" or "SVGs with inappropriate file names". It would work in IFC, but I think it is better organized like this. BTW, the cat uses lists, not gallery (if that's what you meant). ZooFari 04:09, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Sorry; I expressed myself ambiguously. I meant to ask: "Is there an easy way to detect SVGs which someone else has classified into subcategories of IFC?" The category is displayed as a useful list, but the subcategories I've looked at are galleries. Certes (talk) 19:31, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't think we can filter, but the easiest way, I think, is by temporarily changing to list. You can do that by placing __NOGALLERY__ in the cat page. ZooFari 20:42, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

I think something like this should help, but it would be nice if one could have the tree expand by default. _ɹəəpıɔnı 00:57, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, that works. I just edit the category, add __NOGALLERY__, Show preview and ideally remember not to Save page. I see we have SVGs in Category:Non-free Wikipedia file size reduction request e.g. File:AVR_logo.SVG. I'm not sure what the SVG analogy of "file size reduction" is: are we supposed to remove half the points from the paths and add a filter with GaussianBlur? Maybe we should leave that section until last! Certes (talk) 22:54, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

For SVGs, I think it means "cut down the 'nominal' size so it doesn't look so darn big".

I would say size-reduction usually takes direct source editing and removing the bundles of redundant crap that Inkscape produces by default (Illustrator is not so bad in my experience) and generally making the source code more efficient. A good start however in most cases seems to be simple opening up the SVG in Inkscape and pressing Save as... Plain SVG - that format is functionally identical but far smaller than the default Inkscape format. _ɹəəpıɔnı 13:25, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

GLNF within <gallery>

I have attempted to replace the non-free images removed by BJBot with template GLNF. Unfortunately I can't get this to work within the <gallery> tag - see WP:Graphic Lab/Image_workshop#Millennium_'73. Do we know of a workaround for this? If so, should we suggest that BJBot replace non-free images with GLNF rather than its current behaviour? Certes (talk) 15:18, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Can someone create a map for me?

Hey, I'm working on this list called List of tallest buildings in Oklahoma City and one of the guys told me that I need a map and he told me to go here. I'm not really familiar with this, so I was wondering if someone could possibly create a map for this? Showtime2009 (talk) 23:08, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

You can request at the Map workshop... ZooFari 01:07, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Graphic Lab category threads

Alright, there has been many changes and new categories since the last backlog. Category:Images for redraw has been deleted per discussion, as the category was redundant to other categories. Its template is up for deletion as well (since the template was not specific at all). I have created Cat:SVGs for cleanup where SVGs tagged with {{CleanSVG|reason}} are in need for SVG tweaks. So far there are 2 subcategories: Category:SVGs needing revectorization which is for SVGs badly done and/or autotraced (along with a raster, if any), and Category:SVGs needing web-safe fonts which is for SVGs that contain non-websafe fonts. I will be creating Category:Non-free SVGs requiring file size reduction, and all non-free SVGs from Category:Non-free Wikipedia file size reduction request will be transferred to that category. Since SVGs are resizable, non-free images should be displayed no bigger than required in the file page. Many SVGs take the whole page which is not necessary. The template to tag those images is {{smallerSVG}}. Any cat suggestions or feedback are welcomed. ZooFari 19:46, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Just a curiosity about Category:SVGs needing web-safe fonts, who/what exactly is this targeted at? I'm aware that rsvg has some serious font rendering issues, so I've read in some places at least (this has some I think). Or is it aimed at SVG-enabled browsers? _ɹəəpıɔnı 13:05, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Oman

Is there a reason it isn't being archived despite being "Resolved" ? It's been there for ages it seems. 76.117.247.55 (talk) 01:46, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Aye, I'm getting a wee bit embarrassed about it - I marked it as resolved, as resolved it was - superbly. Is there a manual way to do DyceBot's job for it? Cheers, TFOWR^{This flag once was red} 11:27, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

He fixed it and it's archived. 76.117.247.55 (talk) 03:38, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Not AGAIN!

File:Coat of Arms of the Netherlands.svg, same offense as the .au coat: debauched by "trace bitmap". 76.117.247.55 (talk) 04:20, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Some SVG thumbs suddenly garble text

[[file:Modular_pair.svg|thumb|180px]] [[file:Modular_pair2.svg|thumb|180px|File:Modular_pair2.svg, an exact copy of the problem image]] I believe there is a general problem with Wikimedia servers and some SVG files containing text. When I noticed it, someone had already started a thread at commons:Commons:Graphics village pump#Mediawiki bug? Corrupted thumbnail for Image:Eicosanoid synthesis.svg, but so far there has been no helpful response. If the problem still exists, you should not see the letters a and b on the thumbnails (only the two symbols $\land$ and $\lor$, which are drawn), and the larger thumbnail should have 4 artefacts at the top edge.

The image where the problem was first observed, File:Eicosanoid_synthesis.svg has been "fixed" today with a workaround, described by the uploader as "text to paths". I think it just means that the letters are now encoded as SVG graphics. This doesn't seem to be very efficient in general. Note that this picture was created with Inkscape.

My picture presented here was created by hand, so it's small and human-readable. The lines that don't work look as follows:

<text x="30" y="127," font-size="20" text-anchor="middle">a</text>

Is there any reason why this shouldn't render correctly in a thumbnail? If not, who should I contact to get the servers fixed?

I should stress that I uploaded the image in question more than a year ago, and this is a new problem. Hans Adler 19:02, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

After writing this, I noticed the odd comma in y="127,"! This is not in the uploaded file. Moreover, if you click the thumbnail in Firefox so that the browser displays only the SVG file, then:

• if you save the file you get a version without the commas (as uploaded), but
• if you select "view page source" you get a version with the commas.

This weirdness is probably unconnected to the bug, since it does not occur with the other affected file. Hans Adler 19:14, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

If I'm not mistaken, the text is being displayed at a much bigger font than what's wanted, thus it does not fit in the desired document dimensions. This happens when the font is not chosen or is inappropriate. Try using something like plain Arial. ZooFari 19:34, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

I don't have the time to find out how to do this, but it doesn't seem to be necessary anyway. See below. Thanks for the suggestion! Hans Adler 22:17, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

This works: File:Modular pair2.svg (the lower image on the right). I have simply reloaded the saved file (without the commas). Please nominate it for deletion from Commons when it's no longer useful. Perhaps uploading a new version of the original file with no change (or a trivial change) will fix the problem. Certes (talk) 21:17, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

OK, I think I am beginning to understand part of what happened. If I select "view page source" with your new file I don't get the commas. While I don't understand how the difference is even possible unless Firefox re-downloads the file when I save it, it indicates that the server is maintaining two versions of the file: The original, uploaded one, and a second version with the silly commas. Now if there are ungrammatical commas in the y coordinate, it makes sense that it is simply set to 0, and that seems to be exactly what happened: The letters have no descenders and appear with baseline y=0, so for some image dimensions they are completely invisible, and for some you can see the lowest line. The sizes and x positions seem to be fine. Thanks!

So I will simply re-upload the images. But someone should seek out the server administrator who has run a faulty conversion script on the SVG files, and notify them. Otherwise they might use the same script again. And of course they should run another script to fix the problem. Unfortunately I don't know where to look for server admins. Hans Adler 22:17, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

[[file:Not a modular_pair.svg|thumb|180px]] For the benefit of anyone trying to debug this: This file should still be affected. I fixed the other by re-uploading. Hans Adler 22:33, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

OK, I think the mystery has been solved. It seems that I uploaded the file with the silly commas (I have no idea how that could happen), that Firefox tolerates them, that the server initially tolerated them, and that the server has become a bit more picky in the meantime. Thanks for your help. Hans Adler 23:23, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Freeware program for noise

I have recently submitted several images to be FP's and in almost every case they were opposed because of noise. Is there a good freeware program that can edit out image noise. I have downloaded GIMP and Inkscape but neither seems to quite do what I need it to do. I was thinking maybe there was an addin for one of these programs that would do the trick. --Kumioko (talk) 16:19, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Wanna help, not sure how.

I've got a few images into better shape, but I am not sure how to put them on the pages. How do I replace the images that needed fixing with the fixed versions? Is there an easy way to simply upload it? B10Reaper (talk) 20:40, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

One way, you can upload over the original file by going to the description page on Wikimedia Commons (or simply here at Wikipedia if the file isn't at Commons) and click "Upload a new version". The more convenient way is by uploading the image as a separate file. ZooFari 21:54, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Once you have the images uploaded, then just edit the page and replace the file name of the one image with the new one. You'll see something like [[Image:Old image.jpg|frame|right|William the Conqueror, whose cause was favored by the pope,.... Replace the "Old image.jpg" with the name of your new image and save the changes. 76.117.247.55 (talk) 03:01, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

fund librsvg development

I am currently not happy with librsvgs capabilities and therefore wrote a propsosal to fund the development and fix the numerous bugs. Matthias M. (talk) 07:07, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

That bad SVG again

I've requested it be deleted: commons:Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Coat_of_arms_of_Australia.svg. 76.117.247.55 (talk) 20:54, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Stop the confusion?

I'm having a real hard time navigating through these Graphic Lab/Graphic Lab School pages. Maybe some cleanup and subpaging is in order? Beao (talk) 21:29, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes, we still need to organize and finish the incomplete tutorials. Sorry for the inconvenience and we're probably going to have to remove the links temporarily. ZooFari 22:35, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

I remember trying in the past and getting some of it removed. We just don't seem to have the activity level to really justify much of them. 76.117.247.55 (talk) 23:09, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm gonna start cleaning up some of the stuff here (like merge WP:IFC and other image pages here at the GL) and hopefully make sense out of it. Anyone willing to help would be greatly appreciated :-) ZooFari 01:10, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

What help do you want/need? 76.117.247.55 (talk) 01:10, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

I was thinking we could split the request page into one vector and one bitmap subpage, as they attract different graphic artists. Or at least into different sections. What do you think? --Beao (talk) 20:23, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

I think that's a good idea. It would elaborate the requests much better to prevent stale, as graphists have different interests of what they participate in (SVG graphists work with Inkscape while restorationists work with Photoshop). ZooFari 22:21, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Rather then vector/raster a better splitting might be photographs/illustrations ? On a personal note a split between requests about non free images and free images would also be desirable but obviously a lot harder to implement (since many times the requester doesn't know the difference). /Lokal_Profil 15:08, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

As an example for why photographs/illustrations would be a better split then vector/raster consider the recent Nitrogen cycle request which might interest both raster and vector people but non of the photography people. /Lokal_Profil 15:11, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

That's good. So we can have a new workshop called "Photography workshop" or should we use "Photography/illustration workshop"? Illustrations apply to any visual image so I think the first one would be better. What do you think? ZooFari 15:34, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

And the image workshop would need to be renamed to something like "SVG workshop" or "Vector workshop". ZooFari 15:36, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, "Illustration" applies to many vector images as well... I think Vector and Raster is the best, as rasters can be 3d models, paintings, photographs and more. Of course we will need a little info box telling newcomers where to go. I really think this will lessen the stales. Are there any objections or should we do it? Is Vector/Raster an acceptable split? Any other ideas? --Beao (talk) 21:11, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

When you hear raster, SVG comes to mind so I think we should leave that out and not use it with neither the SVG workshop or illustration. Let's not forget about the Map workshop. It's both about rasters and vectors. ZooFari 22:42, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Looks as though my clarification never got posted. My suggestion was one photography lab (panorama fixes, sproucing up old photos, colour balance etc) and one Illustration lab (both vector and raster illustrations). /Lokal_Profil 16:10, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I guess that's a better idea. I didn't think about the map workshop. Also, SVG artists might find all illustrations interesting. --Beao (talk) 19:59, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

So would we have to get rid of the Map workshop? :( ZooFari 21:32, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

No, I meant I forgot that it existed. I believe in Illustration, Photograph and Map. 3 workshops. --Beao (talk) 13:42, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Ok. Any objections or suggestions? ZooFari 17:35, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

There are currently 9 photo requests and 32 illustration requests. So let's rename the Image workshop to Illustration workshop and create the Photography workshop and move the 9 requests there. --Beao (talk) 17:12, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

←  Done. I still need to clean up some of the redirecting and stuff, but hopefully the new addition will make the lab more efficient. If you would like to help, please do so. E.g.: update the news, clean up necessary pages for the "What links here" Wikipedia:Graphic Lab/Image workshop, etc). ZooFari 03:06, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm on it! --Beao (talk) 15:45, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

"Anyone can make a request for a photograph to be improved or created for a Wikipedia article." Is this true? Is the photography workshop also for requests of creation of photos? --Beao (talk) 16:01, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Okay, now I've fixed som small things. Does the Wikipedia talk:G/ILL and PHOTO and I and P redirects have to be fixed manually? --Beao (talk) 17:33, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't think there's shortcuts for talk pages but we can make them if you'd like. BTW, great job :-) ZooFari 23:24, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

It looks like the talk pages of the workshops redirect to the talk page of the main lab page. Should we use separate talk pages or redirect them there? ZooFari 23:27, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Separate. There are things that's more suitable in sub-page context, such as the subpages' archiving and such. And again, does the GL/PHOTO include cration requests? --Beao (talk) 16:34, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

No, such illustrations go in the GL/ILL. How about we use this as the information page? Since that page is used as a template, all we need to do is wrap the information with <noinclude>. Also, see this. I listed the archives there, but we are no longer going to continue to use the old one. ZooFari 22:14, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

What do you mean by information page? Isn't the WP:GL main page enough? I think we should put the GL/Image workshops template above all workshops to ease navigation. And great job to you too :D --Beao (talk) 13:26, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm not sure if the main page is enough; the information page can be used for what requests go where and things like that. I suppose we could place the templates anywhere—you can do those honors :-). ZooFari 21:49, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Image sizing question

Recently another editor advised that the images I added to an article "seem like they are forced. If they are in thumb, the size shown will take care of itself." I have been adding images using the thumb instruction and then specifying pixel size to adjust the image's size for an appropriate visual look. I may be missing something here; could someone offer any guidance? Thanks. RadioBroadcast (talk) 16:21, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Don't understand by "forced". The usual way of thumbs is just [[File:Example.jpg|thumb|250px|description]]. If you don't provide a size then it will automatically resize it anyways, depending on the proportion of the image. ZooFari 17:03, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! RadioBroadcast (talk) 03:30, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Two questions

(i) Is it possible (how?) to download all tiles automatically from a tiled-image viewer (not sure what its proper name is) like this? I would like to stitch the resulting tiles and upload to commons. I could do it manually, saving all tiles with right-click, but that would take a long time, so I am looking for a (semi-)automatic method. (ii) Is the commonist tool (for upload of many images to wikimedia commons) going to work again anytime soon?bamse (talk) 10:16, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

This got me sufficiently curious to hack together a PHP script, which I will include below, that does everything including the stitching. What's the copyright status of the images on that site, though? If they are freely available, you might be able to get high quality un-tiled images directly from the site's owners; and if they're not, you shouldn't really be messing with them!

Anyway, here's the code:

grab_tiles.php

<?php // The parts of the URL we don't want to change - the image ID etc $url_base = 'http://www.emuseum.jp/map/map_img/w013/w013s000g001/m'; // Maximum / normal size of each tile image $tile_size = array('width' => 720, 'height' => 720); // Number of pixels by which tiles overlap $overlap = array('x' => 70, 'y' => 70); // Zoom level $zoom_level = '02'; // Total number of tiles we're interested in $tile_count = array('x' => 3, 'y' => 2); // Start in the middle of the tile set, rather than the top-left corner $ignore_tiles = array('x' => 0, 'y' => 0); // Largest size of assembled image is based on x by y full-sized tiles, minus x-1 by y-1 overlaps between them $output_image = imagecreatetruecolor( ($tile_size['width'] * $tile_count['x']) - ($overlap['x'] * ($tile_count['x'] - 1)), ($tile_size['height'] * $tile_count['y']) - ($overlap['y'] * ($tile_count['y'] - 1)) ); // Note that $x and $y count from 1, to match the URLs for ( $x = 1; $x <= $tile_count['x']; $x++ ) { for ( $y = 1; $y <= $tile_count['y']; $y++ ) { $url = create_image_url($x + $ignore_tiles['x'], $y + $ignore_tiles['y']); // If you just wanted to download the file, you could use something like # copy($url, "output/tile-$x-$y.jpeg"); // Download the image straight into memory $tile_image = imagecreatefromjpeg( $url ); // Note that we want x and y to start at 0 for calculating the offset imagecopy( $output_image, $tile_image, // position in output image (($x - 1) * $tile_size['width']) - (($x - 1) * $overlap['x']), (($y - 1) * $tile_size['height']) - (($y - 1) * $overlap['y']), // position in tile image to start copying 0, 0, // size of tile image (may not be a full tile at edges) imagesx($tile_image), imagesy($tile_image) ); imagedestroy($tile_image); } } // Output the image straight to the browser, or terminal (`php grab_tiles.php > somefile.jpeg`) header('Content-type: image/jpeg'); imagejpeg($output_image); exit; function create_image_url($x, $y) { global $url_base, $zoom_level; // Numbers need leading zeros if ( strlen($x) == 1 ) { $x = "0$x"; } if ( strlen($y) == 1 ) { $y = "0$y"; } return $url_base . "/{$zoom_level}/x{$x}y{$y}.jpg"; }

Enjoy!

Oh, and if you don't have anywhere to run PHP, I might be willing to post a public version of this if you can demonstrate I wouldn't be breaching copyright. - IMSoP (talk) 14:56, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! Indeed, I don't have a place to run PHP at the moment (unfortunately). As for copyright, I am interested in old (several hundred years) two-dimensional pieces of art which are in the public domain (by their age). The photograph/scan is a mere reproduction of a public domain art object (see {{PD-Art}}). Hope you will post a public version of the script.bamse (talk) 15:20, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Hm, it's not quite as simple as that - I don't fully understand it all, but reading around it seems that as I'm based in the UK the sweat of the brow principle may be involved in the threshold of originality - i.e. the effort it took to produce those high quality scans.

Still, it seems a reasonable enough endeavour, so if you promise to use it wisely (please don't hammer it with hundreds of requests, or you'll use up my entire bandwidth allowance!), I've made a cleaned-up, parameterised script at http://rwec.co.uk/x/grab_tiles/grab_tiles.php

A non-web-based solution would probably be better for the job, but I couldn't program one of those nearly as fast - though the wget + jpegtran below looks somewhat promising... - IMSoP (talk) 19:28, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Here's a Windows batch file to get the images:

   @echo off & setlocal enabledelayedexpansion
   set baseurl=http://www.emuseum.jp/map/map_img/w013/w013s000g001/m/04/
   set width=28
   set height=15
   for /L %%j in (1,1,%height%) do for /L %%i in (1,1,%width%) do set x=0%%i& set y=0%%j& wget %baseurl%x!x:~-2,2!y!y:~-2,2!.jpg

You will need wget.exe for this. Edit the middle three lines as appropriate.

Since the dimensions of each tile of this image (720×720) are a multiple of the JPEG MCU size (16×16) and each tile is saved with the same compression settings (quality level 95), you can actually stitch these tiles together losslessly if you have the appropriate tools. Get jpegtran with crop 'n' drop from here, then this batch file will do the stitching:

   @echo off & setlocal enabledelayedexpansion
   set outputname=output.jpg
   set width=28
   set height=15
   set tilewidth=720
   set tileheight=720
   for /L %%j in (1,1,%height%) do for /L %%i in (1,1,%width%) do (
       set x=0%%i
       set y=0%%j
       set /a xx = "(%%i - 1) * %tilewidth%"
       set /a yy = "(%%j - 1) * %tileheight%"
       jpegtran -copy all -drop +!xx!+!yy! x!x:~-2,2!y!y:~-2,2!.jpg -outfile %outputname% %outputname%
   )

Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems that jpegtran won't drop a subimage outside the boundaries of the full image, which means you have to pre-create the output file (output.jpg) with the appropriate dimensions (20136×10545 in this case) and JPEG quality level (95). It doesn't matter what's in the image since it will be overwritten. -- BenRG (talk) 18:08, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Also, neat though that method sounds, the tiles actually overlap, so you have to take into account an overlap factor. Probably still possible with those tools, I'm not sure - I thought of doing something similar with bash and ImageMagick, but don't know nearly enough Windows scripting to do even the fetch part. (Ingenious way of getting the leading zeroes, for instance!) - IMSoP (talk) 19:28, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Archiving

Nothing's being archived... did the bot break? 76.117.247.55 (talk) 22:01, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

I was going to bring that up as well. I've been archiving manually so something's not right. ZooFari 00:30, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Hi, sorry about the break in archiving. The framework the bot uses is kind of buggy/broken at the moment, and I haven't had time to port the bot to a new framework yet. I would hope to be able to do so in the next few weeks. By the way, when something like this happens in the future I'd appreciate it if you would leave a note on my talkpage. I didn't even know the bot was broken until someone mentioned that another of its tasks had stopped as well.--Dycedarg ж 02:55, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

RfC on default thumbnail sizes

A proposal to raise the default thumb size from 180px to... something bigger is now in its second week at the Image use policy talk page. If you have an opinion on this, now is the time to lodge it. Support is strong for 250px+, but the median preference at present is for 220-230px. Cheers, mikaul^talk 11:39, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Photo critique needed

Thought I'd take a chance and post here. Could you please take a look at Wikipedia:Reference desk/Science#UFO identification, and give some photographic critique on the insect pictures I've uploaded. In particular, some photos need cropping whilst others need a choice to be made between several pics of the same thing. Thirdly, please comment if these pics are actually needed, given the quality and abundance of photos already in the existing articles. Thanks. Zunaid 04:59, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Need help overlaying an image

Hello. I'm an admin here on teh Wiki, but when it comes to image manipulation, I am strictly bush-league. Farm league. Possibly tee-ball. Anyway, would anyone be willing to help me out with this? I tried downloading Gimp but I think I'm past the sweet spot age for understanding this stuff. I could email you the photos with a description of what I need. Should be really easy for anyone familiar with gimp or photoshop.

I'd be happy to give it shot :). You can't include attachments when emailing via Wikipedia, so I'll email you myself, just so that you have my email address. I'm presuming these aren't Wikipedia images, or ones which you want to upload? - Kingpin¹³ (talk) 16:36, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Nope. Just some personal keepsake photos. Tan | 39 16:54, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

improving jpeg files drawn on MS paint

Is there any way to save a picture drawn on MS paint as a jpeg without it becoming pixelated? I've had many drawings destroyed by this. Take this picture for example ...

http://pics.livejournal.com/ghostexorcist/pic/0000gz15

If you look at the outline of the rings of the planet, as well as around the stars, and even the lettering at the bottom of the picture, everything is pixelated. It should be crisp like I originally drew it.

--Ghostexorcist (talk) 15:54, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

What MS Paint does is to let you colour in the pixels of a bitmap. It doesn't keep any further information about lines, curves, etc. For example, you drew part of a disc to represent a planet but all Paint remembers is that those tiny squares are blue; there's no record of a smoothly curved border. The image will always be pixellated whether you save it as JPEG or another format. GIMP is a good alternative for the sort of work you are doing, but it still uses raster graphics. If you want to retain the information that the blue area you drew was a clipped circle, you need a vector graphics format such as SVG and a program like Inkscape to help you produce it. The cats would have to be imported as small raster images (JPG, PNG or similar) but everything else in your graphic can be described precisely and concisely as a vector element. SVG and Inkscape are complex and powerful, but you can still get a lot out of them without knowing every last detail. Graphic Lab has links to plenty of help on SVG and Inkscape, especially How to draw a diagram with Inkscape and Help:SVG. Certes (talk) 20:53, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Indian state blank svgs needed

Hi. I noticed File:Assam protected areas map-blank.svg. We are desperately needing good svg blank maps of the states of India (with the districts lightly outlined) for use in pushpin in infoboxes. Basically I'm looking for a full set of maps of each of the Indian states in the style of File:Pakistan location map.svg. Like your Assam map but blank. Amazingly nobody has created blank svgs for India yet and we've had to put up with the horrible colored maps for ages. Could the graphics lab please create some good quality blank svgs and list the coordinates like on the Pakistan image page to make it possible to use for pin maps? Thanks. Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 19:58, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Broken animated gif: File:Phenakistoscope_3g07690a.gif

Anyone who can update the copy on .en http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Phenakistoscope_3g07690a.gif

Should look like this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/Phenakistoscope_3g07690a.gif

.en copy stopped animating a day or so ago. NOTE: I think there is some kind of message before loading what loads about some file damage or corruption.

Thanks. Proofreader77 ^(interact) 22:25, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Both animate fine here - I'm guessing this is more likely a problem with your own computer/browser rather than with Wikipedia - try clearing your cache out. _ɹəəpıɔnı 00:13, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Embedded rasters in SVGs

There are a number of places I could bring up this topic, but I thought this would be the most central, well "heard" place.

There are a number of SVGs here with raster images (jpegs mostly I find) embedded in them (using data:uris). Obviously these should never have been created in the first place - even if the image is suitable for vectorisation, if it has embedded rasters in it then it hasn't really been vectorised at all, which defies the point of using SVGs on Wikipedia in the first place. This has been said in various places:

Graphic Lab's Uploading standards page says:

perhaps you have embedded a raster image in it (Never do this, it defeats the entire purpose of vector graphics).

some image templates say:

images which contain strictly vector (non-raster) data. SVG should be used in this case. Use {{ShouldBeSVG}} for all such images.

Many of these are marked for cleanup with the general {{Cleanup-SVG}} template, but the purpose of that template is to highlight SVGs for improvement/optimisation, rather than a complete replacement, or deletion if it never should've been SVG in the first place.

I'm thinking we may need a new image template for this, but I'm wondering if anyone disagrees/has other views on what should be done to/with these kind of SVGs.

Here are two examples with rasters embedded:

• File:Discovery_HD_logo_2009.svg
• File:Bowl Championship Series logo.svg

_ɹəəpıɔnı 12:32, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

I could have sworn there was a template with this already. I seem to recall the Iceland presidential flag had such a template applied for a while before it was corrected. 76.117.247.55 (talk) 18:30, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Title mistake on a picture of hibiscus flowers

This page

File:2006 08 10 Hollyhock.JPG

shows a couple of hibiscus flowers, so described by the person submitted, and yet the wiki confuses them with hollyhock. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DrJGMD (talk • contribs) 13:26, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

File:2006 08 10 Hollyhock.JPG is mainly displayed through {{Malvales-stub}}. It shows Hibiscus moscheutos, also known as the Sea Hollyhock according to [3] and [4]. Certes (talk) 16:53, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Image upside down

This image [File:GilgameshTablet.jpg] is upside down. Could someone rotate it please? Here's the British Museum's picture of it the right way up: [5]. Thanks Chasuble (talk) 15:31, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Are you sure that's the same tablet? If so, it's an easy job for the folk at Wikipedia:Graphic Lab/Photography workshop. We also have File:GilgameshTablet.png, the same way up as File:GilgameshTablet.jpg. Certes (talk) 16:41, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

You're right - they are not the same. Which would suggest the Wiki one is incorrectly identified and ought to come out of the articles it's in. Chasuble (talk) 12:01, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

What happened?

Hi, I'm kind of new to vector images. Can anyone tell me what happened to my image that I uploaded? It seems to of changed text font. Thanks.

Tsange ^►talk 16:15, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

SVG is just fancy XML. It's similar to HTML, in that you can specify specific fonts you want, but the end user might not see the text the way you intended it if they don't have that font installed on their machine. To make matters worse, we have to deal with the fonts that are installed on Wikimedia's servers (as the servers render the SVG into PNG thumbnails). This basically limits fonts to default sans serif and default serif (and maybe the websafe fonts like verdana and georgia and times roman). While you can embed fonts in SVG, wikimedia servers do not allow that and will not display SVGs with embedded fonts (even if they work on your system). So a work around would be to "convert fonts to paths" or "convert to outlines" before you save. This will keep the shape of the font in tact, but sort of defeats the edibility nature of SVGs (so that I couldn't come along later and change you T to an A because the text has been converted to paths). Does that make sense? For this reason, I do not find Wikimedia's implementation of SVG the best solution for elegant design, as being limited to default fonts is fairly crippling to designers (now if Univers and Palatino were default fonts, I could live within those limitations 95% of the time!)-Andrew c ^[talk] 16:38, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

What's funny is if I click on the image on the image page, to view the actual SVG, I can see a serifed, centered T, because it is my machine and firefox that is rendering the SVG. It's only the PNG thumbnails that are broken. -Andrew c ^[talk] 16:39, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Wow, thanks for the help, the image is now working! Tsange ^►talk 17:03, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Great! Glad I could be of some help. The thumbnails and the actual SVG now look the same on my set up! So whatever you did helped. -Andrew c ^[talk] 17:07, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Size of maps

I notice that the maps '1st Cassino en.svg' and '3rd Cassino en.svg' in the 'Battle of Monte Cassino' article are listed as 183 x 267 pixels, but the map for '2nd Cassino en.svg' is 367 x 541 pixels even though it seems to be the same map! I'm not too sure of the technicalities, or how to correct them, but I do know that I can't read any of the detail of the 1st and 3rd maps on my screen. If the '2nd battle' is easy to read, then surely the other two should be likewise. RASAM (talk) 19:15, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure how this works...

How can I propose an image to be improved here? Kayau Odyssey HUCK FINN to the lighthouse 12:01, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes, even if you cant do so yourself someone else could help.Lihaas (talk) 08:31, 15 July 2010 (UTC)).

Systematic problem with maps: Aral Sea

I've noticed that File:Khazarfall1.png (from Commons) shows Aral Sea during the early stages of drying (actually, North Aral Sea and South Aral Sea are shown), even the map is from 11th century. I suppose that many other maps of that region have similar problems: not showing correct size of the Aral Sea for particular time. --millosh (talk (meta:)) 11:39, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Copyright

Copyright Symbol

[Copyright.svg]needs to be edited so that the transparent part in the middle is white. -71.221.96.253 (talk) 03:46, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Image correction requested

file:URU-KOR 2010-06-26.svg. The Koreans were wearing white. I can't edit SVGs. Sorry. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 16:11, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Misspelling that apparently can't be corrected by an ordinary user

The scope of [Edit This Page] apparently didn't include the table with the title "Free Software [GNU, etc]". Under the entry "Hugin", one finds "panoramic" misspelled; the final "a" in "panorama" is dropped when adding "-ic". Nikevich (talk) 18:42, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

Fixed. It was on this page: Wikipedia:Graphic Lab/Resources/Software 76.117.247.55 (talk) 09:53, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

currency map

global currency sign map needs to be updated to reflect the change in the Indian rupee.Lihaas (talk) 08:29, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Ossification

Hi. I don´t know if this is the place to ask for this. In the article above there is a free image, but is not in Commons but in WP in english. I know there is a way to move it to Commons, but I don´t know how. I want to use it in WP in spanish, but I can´t. Thanks. --Andreateletrabajo (talk) 22:07, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

PS: The name of the file is Bonemetabolism.png --Andreateletrabajo (talk) 22:12, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

There is also Image:Bonemetabolism.svg, but I would look @ the template {{MoveToCommons}}. 76.117.247.55 (talk) 09:55, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject report

Please answer the questions here as time is of the essence. Thanks, Rock drum _Ba-dum^Crash (Review me) 16:44, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Update is needed

After Poland became a member of the Nuclear Energy Agency, File:Map of NEA.png has to be updated accordingly. Thank you. Beagel (talk) 21:31, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Done. You should rather be posting such requests at the Illustration workshop, though. —Quibik (talk) 22:31, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Help needed with SVG

I've uploaded an SVG version of the logo for the 2010 Lisbon summit (File:2010 Lisbon summit.svg), but having trouble with some bits not appearing. -- [[ axg ◉ talk ]] 10:33, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Fixed the SVG. This involved quite a bit of manual fiddling, plus a new script, but got it to work at last. :) —Quibik (talk) 22:24, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Translation from French to English

I would like to know how I translate this Germany map where the following templates are used :

• {{Début de carte}}
• [[Image:{{Géolocalisation/Allemagne|image}}|{{{largeur|400}}}px]]
• {{G|Allemagne|53.484778|8.475|Nordenham (Judentumer Weg)|12}}

etc.

• {{Fin de carte}}

Thanks, --Olevy (talk) 15:19, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Clueless in Alaska

I am trying to create a mosaic type image to be the lead image for Alaska. I downloaded Hugin, but I am finding it not as easy to use as I had anticipated. I'm wondering if there is maybe somebody around here for whom this would take only a few minutes instead of the few hours or days it is probably going to take me to figure out how to use this thing. The images I am trying to stitch together are:

• File:Two Tlingit girls.jpg
• File:Ted Stevens.jpg
• File:Vitus Bering 1681-1741.jpg
• File:Tikhanov - Aleut in Festival Dress in Alaska (1818).png
• File:Brown Bear Feeding on Salmon 1.jpg
• File:Denali Mt McKinley.jpg
• File:Iditarod Ceremonial start in Anchorage, Alaska.jpg
• File:Anchorage on an April evening.jpg
• File:WillowPtarmigan23.jpg

They are listed in no particular order, but it would be nice if Denali was in the middle. Can anyone help me out with this? Beeblebrox (talk) 23:50, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

I finally figured out the right place to request this, and it has been done. Beeblebrox (talk) 08:23, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Image addition

I figure this is the best place for this....can someone make me an image of a red circle through the essay image? CTJF83 chat 08:28, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

I moved your request to the proper request page at Wikipedia:Graphic_Lab/Illustration_workshop#Image_addition. -- Orionist ★ talk 10:36, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Problems with a svg file

 Done I don't know why and how, but the svg file I updated today (File:Timeline of web browsers.svg) is not correct rendered by mediawiki! Nearly the whole images is blanked and the timelines are not longer shown, although the images is good if opened it directly in opera... Where is the problem? mabdul 17:28, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

User:WOFall fixed my problem. mabdul 21:42, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Contacting the graphics lab

I wished to add discussion to the File:PD-icon.svg concerning accessibilty of the underlying SVG code. (I think I have some improvements to that; see http://granite.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/pd4.svg or http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/message/64194 for some discussion of this.)

Anyhow the message associated with that SVG icon said that this discussion page was not for discussing improvements of the image, and that instead one should contact the graphics lab. I find no way to do that other than by leaving a note here.

David.daileyatsrudotedu (talk) 15:49, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

If I understand correctly you want to replace the outlined C with an editable text C, but I don't understand what are the advantages of that. As I see it, a C is a C, whether editable, outlined, printed, or painted. We keep such symbols outlined to guarantee the visual consistency of the symbol throughout our projects, and that it wouldn't change appearance, size and possibly position with every different browser, or depend on font settings and fonts installed. Moreover, our thumbnailing script (librsvg) is very erratic when dealing with text. So I think that's a hard one to sell.

You can, however, upload the file you suggest we use as a separate file (for example PD-icon-2.svg) so wer could see how it behaves in the MediaWiki environment, and it would be available for use if there's an agreement here to do so. It would also be available for projects outside Wikimedia if they decide they prefer it. As for me, I think that our symbol is a tad more appealing to the eye ;). Regards, -- Orionist ★ talk 13:19, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Help

File:Phylogenetic chart of Lepidoptera.svg. It seems that all the text turns into black boxes, can someone please fix my problem? Then maybe tell me what went wrong. Bugboy52.4 ¦ =-= 05:51, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Wikimedia's SVG renderer has many bugs. Here, you seem to be using "flowed text", which is not supported by our renderer. In Inkscape, selecting "Convert to Text" from the "Text" menu should fix it. You solved the problem by converting to outlines, which is good where visual consistency is important, but in this case (diagram) editable text is much preferred (for easy translation etc.) not to mention the much smaller file size. Regards, -- Orionist ★ talk 13:08, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Eznis Airways logo

Hey I up loaded a vector File:LOGO_OF_EZNIS_AIRWAYS.svg . I made it in inkscape when I open the image locally in my browser it looks the way it should but it changes (the font changes) when I upload it. What is that about? How can I fix it? Thanks Markcoulter50 (talk) 19:11, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

That's because the software at Wikimedia websites doesn't render fonts in SVG files properly. You can solve the problem by converting text to outlines. Do that whenever the look of the font is important. But don't convert the text if its exact look is not an issue, as in diagrams for example. Regards, -- Orionist ★ talk 19:31, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, will do Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Inquiring about converting .eps to .svg

 Done

I initially uploaded a new version of the Gatorade logo at File:GatoradeLogoUpd2010GreyonClear.jpg

However, this is in .jpg format, which I now understand is not ideal for a non-free logo used in an infobox. So I've identified a replacement which is identical, but can be downloaded in .eps format at: http://multimedia.pepsico.com/public/asset_id/692. I attempted to convert this file to .svg several times, but it seems that I do not have the proper software to do so. If anyone is able, can you help convert this file and upload it to Wikipedia -- or kindly show me how to go about this (preferably without having to buy special software)? Cheers, Jeff Bedford (talk) 00:10, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Hello Jeff! I could only find a JPG file at the link you provided. I searched the site and couldn't find an EPS version of this particualr logo. Can you please provide a direct link to the EPS file, or alternatively, to any PDF file that contains the logo? (it can be extracted from there). If you want to try your hand at it, you can download Inkscape, which is totally free. Converting files with Inkscape isn't difficult, but if you want to do more (editing etc.), it has a smoewhat steep learning curve. Regards, -- Orionist ★ talk 13:18, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Hello Orionist, many thanks for sending me in the right direction here. I downloaded Inkscape and Scribus, and think I am finally getting the hang of this! The Gatorade article has since been updated. Cheers, Jeff Bedford (talk) 19:53, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Fantastic! I'm glad I could help! Regards, -- Orionist ★ talk 19:35, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

SVG Help volunteers needed

Awhile back the one user who maintained WP:SVG Help (a board dedicated to helping users with SVG image questions and problems) retired from Wikipedia. They marked the board as 'no longer maintained' and left forever. However, the board was very active and there's no problem with the concept of it. I've restored it to its previous version and marked it as inactive, but if anyone familiar with SVGs is willing to help out and watch the page, then we can get the board moving again. Thanks, Swarm ^X 15:56, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Stale?

I'm new in this section - what does "Stale" mean? Are those requests the oldest, therefore a higher priority? Or are they not needed anymore? JaffaCakeLover (talk) 16:12, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Hello JaffaCakeLover! Requests are tagged as "Stale" when three weeks pass with no activity. If they were not taken, you're of course very welcome (and encouraged) to take them. Sometimes the request is already done, but the graphist is waiting for feedback from the requester before tagging as "resolved". Regards, -- Orionist ★ talk 01:44, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

New template for the Top 4 galleries

I would like to replace the {{gl-PENDING}} and {{gl-DONE}} templates with one single template that incorporates both of their features. This new template and its documentation can be found at {{Gl request}}. With one template, the usual Top 4 requests can be made, but the volunteer worker can also finalize the template by writing "done" or entering in the new image file name in the appropriate parameter. The colors of the border change in accordance with the current uses. If everyone agrees on implementing this new template, then I will tag the older templates {{Tdeprecated}}, unless someone has a better idea? Finally, I am extremely grateful to Bility for his awesome work on the coding. I will post discussions on the Illustration and Photography workshop talk pages pointing here. – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 22:12, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Seems like a good replacement. But, I do have suggestions regarding the colour outlines used during the request process. I think a file which is not taken should have a blue outline and not red. Once the file is taken, it could be yellow perhaps, and when the request is complete it could be green. (The reason why I am opposed to red is because of its frequent use on Commons QIC and VIC where it suggest a decline or failure) Jovian Eye _talk 02:56, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

No problem, let me switch it up. The blue is just as bright as the red is. – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 03:19, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

I think the easiest "yellow" to see against a white background is "gold". Thanks for the suggestion! – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 03:31, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

The colours are now good! --Jovian Eye _talk 05:17, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Great. I've implemented the new template over at Wikipedia:Graphic_Lab/Photography_workshop/Top_4 as a test, along with new instructions. Should be simple enough. – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 05:46, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Looks great, thanks --Sisyphos23 (talk) 12:57, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Excellent. I'll go ahead and add it to the Illustration workshop in a few moments then. – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 17:16, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Nice, I like the rolling together of the two templates. Thanks for working on this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jkwchui (talk • contribs) 19:19, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Glad it's working for everyone! : ) – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 19:33, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Hi everyone. I got a message at my talk page about Template:Gl-DONE being deleted or something like that. I just want to say congratulations for your work and improvements done to the "Top 4" process. It never occurred to me that this would become a successful idea and thought it would go broke when I retire. I give you all high-fives, it makes me cry when I see the archives :'-) --ZooFari 00:40, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Hi ZooFari, your templates were very successful, we just rolled them into one single one. Gl-DONE and Gl-PENDING are up for deletion at TfD since they are deprecated. – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 00:54, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Yes, it looks very nice, great job (hope you didn't take my comment as sarcasm :P). --ZooFari 00:57, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

I took both of your comments as compliments : ) – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 02:09, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Template:GLNF new image?

Example image	Example image	File:NFCC image (temporary).png Example image
Current	Option 1	Option 2

The placement of "WP:NFCC" in the current image used in Template:GLNF makes it difficult to discern the actual © symbol. (It looks almost like a target symbol.) So I propose two options to change it to. My own !vote would go for option 2, which is a combination of the first two images. I really like File:Unfree image.svg, but in use, I've found it to be too glaring and distracting, and I prefer the more transparent of the "option 2" image. I'm curious to see others' opinions on the matter. Also, I will put in a request for the "option 2" image to be converted into SVG (preferably from scratch!) at the Illustration Workshop. I will put notice-of-discussions on the Illustration and Photography talk pages. Thanks! – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 20:12, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

I like option 2 as you reasoned, but I would like it to be tweaked further. For instance the letters WP:NFCC can be placed above the copyright symbol instead of overlapping it. An SVG version of this should be made and File:Nuvola apps important.svg should be used in the process. Jovian Eye _talk 20:29, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

You bet. Can you voice your comments at Wikipedia:Graphic_Lab/Illustration_workshop#New_unfree_image_icon, where I put the image up for SVG creation? (Or you can create it if you're working there.) I can't get Inkscape to work on my Mac, so I'm stuck making raster versions : ( – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 20:49, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Hmm I don't know. I almost prefer it overlapping. I uploaded a version with the text at the top (see image history), and then even made one with the text on the bottom (not uploaded), but I like the balance of the overlapping warning sign and the overlapping text. In trying to keep the image square and not rectangular, it just looks too squeezed. – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 21:12, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Implemented! Thanks to Jon C for the original and Jovian Eye for the derivative! – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 18:16, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Image too wide! Messes up whole layout.

Fly fishing#Methods Heck yes, it's a very beautiful lagoon, but I think it will still be considered beautiful if we cut off some 100 pixels horizontally :) -andy 217.50.63.159 (talk) 14:07, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

I removed the image size force (it was forcing it to appear at 800px). The image can be turned into a wider panoramic (see Wikipedia:Picture_tutorial#Panoramas) if anyone desires. The image should have a caption added to it as well. – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 20:50, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Filling archived requests?

I have a question about how to handle fulfilling requests that have been archived (on any of the workshops). If I decide to work on one, should I copy it out of the archives into the active requests page? Or should I just keep it in the archives and have any subsequent discussion there, then move it to the Resolved half? -MissMJ (talk) 21:05, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

You could copy the request from the archive, re-add it to the active workshop page between {{discussion top}} and {{discussion bottom}} tags, and proceed with the work as normal (keeping new comments outside of the discussion tags). This is how one would continue an archived discussion, so I don't see why it wouldn't suffice for a graphic lab request. – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 23:50, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Makes sense. Would I still keep a copy of the request in the archive, or delete it out of there? It seems to me that the archive system isn't all that great in dealing with old requests in terms of getting across the idea that they should still be fulfilled. Also, skimming through a couple of the archives, it looks like some requests did eventually get fulfilled (whether they were requested again or what, I don't know), but are still marked "Stale." Should they be marked "Resolved" and moved to that section to make it easier for anyone looking at old requests? But they're in an archive, which technically shouldn't be edited...

Sigh. -MissMJ (talk) 04:26, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

The set-up to the archive system is one problem, I think, and perhaps the whole "stale" thing is kind of an issue as well, because a bot doesn't know if the request has been fulfilled, if it isn't marked as such. Some people take matters into their own hands and mark a request "resolved" when it's obvious, but what if someone doesn't? Take this for an example, in which I was involved, to an extent: Haakon VII of Norway. My interpretation of the restoration wasn't approved by the nominator, who eventually just ignored the request until I pinged him, and even then, the follow-up was half-hearted and eventually the whole request was ignored. JBarta completed the restoration satisfactorily, and I remember waiting a couple weeks for the nominator to mark it resolved. The nominator isn't a stranger to the GL either, so "pinging" him wasn't the problem. Anyway, I never marked it resolved because, due to the lack of communication during my attempts at the image, I wasn't sure if the nominator was still displeased, indifferent to the whole thing, or had simply forgotten. The point is: it was done, it was completed, and it was still "stale".

Archives shouldn't be edited in general, true. But why shouldn't the stale section be editable? Especially if you know you're going to work on the request? In that case, I would ignore my suggestion above and simply copy and cut the stale request from the archive and add it to the appropriate GL page and work on it as normal (removing the Stale template, of course). The date of the original request will still be there. I'm not seeing any valid reason to keep the request in the stale section of the archives at all. (My initial answer above was less informed, because I wasn't familiar with the archiving procedure.) What do you think? – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 06:46, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

That sounds like a more workable solution. I guess we can keep treating the "Resolved" sections as true archives that shouldn't be edited and the "Stale" sections as... I don't know, temporary archives? xD The original discussion shouldn't be edited, but can be moved out to continue work.

I wonder if there should be another tag for requests; something along the lines of "Unresolvable" for things that can't be done due to copyright issues, pointlessness, etc. -MissMJ (talk) 22:02, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Blackboxes

I know I have bring this up before in previous svg images. However (in File:Areas_of_insect_wing.svg) and I am unable to remove it as it does not appear in inkscape. Bugboy52.4 ¦ =-= 02:55, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Types of work done

I don`t understand the table`s expression in the "Types of work done" title. Does it show example for wikipedia good images or does is render undesirable modification ?188.25.29.178 (talk) 16:38, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

They are before/after images. 76.117.247.55 (talk) 00:06, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Looking for Online Ambassadors interested in design and digital media

Hi folks. The Wikipedia Ambassador Program is working with a class for the upcoming term on the history of design and digital media, and we're looking for some experienced Wikipedians with an interest in the subject area to support the class as Online Ambassadors. If you're interested, please let me know.--Sage Ross - Online Facilitator, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 16:55, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Utah State University RCDE

I'm working on the Utah State University Regional Campus and Distance Education portion of the USU Wikipedia Page. RCDE has 5 campuses and 28 education centers throughout the state of Utah. I want to display these on a map. The University uses a Google Map (http://distance.usu.edu/locations.cfm).

How would I go about acquiring a map for Wikipedia? Is there a map-making program that might help?

Thanks! Jhunt47 (talk) 06:11, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

Disregard this. Jhunt47 (talk) 03:32, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

SVG Conversion

I attempted converting this png file into SVG, however it appears to have greatly pixellated the image, as per this here upload. Am I missing a stage or something? Cheers! Nikthestoned 11:04, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Useful?

Is there any interest in having tutorials on graphic manipulation somewhere on wikipedia? Or do such pages already exist? I think it could be useful in order to get more quality images on wikipedia. It would be good if those pages would be advertised so that many people can find them. As a start, I could write one on how to create high resolution images (for upload on commons) from tiled images such as this. bamse (talk) 15:19, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Apparently it is of no interest. In case somebody still wants to know, please leave a message at my talk page and I'll happily tell you. Will stop watching this page, which seems a bit dead anyway. bamse (talk) 10:43, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

The picture

Hi
I was on the 'Orders, Decorations and Medals' page and I thought that there was something wrong with the picture. The medals are fine, but the image of the soldiers in it are reversed. Two things make this clear:
1. They are firing their rifles left-handed, (highly unlikely in the 19th century).
2. Their bayonet scabbards are to the right, (they should be over the left buttock, as they were when I was serving, as they still are today).

Regards

RASAM (talk) 14:30, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

WP:GRT

Wikipedia:Graphics tutorials needs to be mentioned here. It includes a lot of useful tools. — trlkly 12:22, 28 May 2012 (UTC)