Jump to content

Wikipedia talk:Canadian Wikipedians' notice board/Archive 18

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Archive 15Archive 16Archive 17Archive 18Archive 19Archive 20→Archive 25

One for the salvage crew

Dorian Parker, a former mayor of Barrie, Ontario, is currently listed for AFD, on the grounds that the nominator couldn't find coverage of her in a news retrieval database. (The fact that the user lives in Canberra, Australia, where the Barrie Examiner would be profoundly unlikely to be available in electronic archives, didn't seem to register.) I've added two sources to supplement the existing ones, but wanted to solicit some assistance in case somebody who lives nearer to Barrie has better access to Examiner archives than our Australian colleague does. Bearcat (talk) 01:23, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

{{Canadian monarchs}}

FYI, Template:Canadian monarchs was redirected to {{Australian monarchs}} recently. -- 76.65.128.43 (talk) 09:13, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

So what should we do here - do we add/replace it all over? Saskatchewan Logo Change.Moxy (talk) 22:03, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Umm, wow. They started with an ugly logo and managed to make one worse. At any rate, is the old logo even used anywhere? It isn't at Saskatchewan or Symbols of Saskatchewan, the two most logical places to use it. Resolute 22:52, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
The old one's on all those brown rail cars that I assume are full of wheat. Or maybe potash. The Interior (Talk) 22:58, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
Wait, I'm probably mixing that up with the Canadian Wheat Board logo. The Interior (Talk) 23:00, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
You're not. I see the SaskPool grain cars all the time and yes, that logo is on those cars. But I'm not sure there is any where the logo is actually being used on Wikipedia. Resolute 23:03, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
  • I feel we have better things to do with our editing time. If it is controversial in Sask. then they may change it every 2 days. If editors want to change it here, then let them. We could just wait for the dust to settle and then demand the government change it for us, after all it is their foot in mouth.--Canoe1967 (talk) 23:22, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

New articles on women and on sports

Our resident American historian User:Rjensen has been very kind to us this past year making some new articles based on Canadian women and sports. Rjensen is generally a content editor (need many more like him) and the articles could use some fine touches from our style editor's (wiki links, un-orphaning, images etc..) Any help would be great. Moxy (talk) 17:53, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

also:

New great editor

Has anyone noticed a new editor who is going gangbusters updating many very needy Canadian articles such as:

Saputo Incorporated and Lino Saputo

The article on the cheese magnate's company contains an allegation of mafia connections based on a news report of a defamation suit whose resolution I haven't been able to discover. I'm not that good on Canadian/Italian news sources, but obviously this is a sensitive matter. Interested parties should discuss this at Talk:Saputo Incorporated. Mangoe (talk) 15:03, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

The Drop (sculpture)

Anyone interested in collaborating on the article for this sculpture in Vancouver? This should be a pretty easy article to get to Good status. I will likely continue working on the article on my own even if no one else wants to pitch in, but I thought I'd extend a request in the spirit of collaboration! Feel free to jump right in or leave a note on my talk page if interested! --Another Believer (Talk) 22:17, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

"Collaboration of the Month"

Hey folks, just throwing an idea out there. What about a "Collaboration of the Month" promotion for project members? We'd identify an article that more than one of us has an interest in, make a list of desired improvements (or drive for GA/FA), and have at it for a month. Might be good way to increase a sense of community. See Wikipedia:WikiProject Oregon/Collaboration for something similar. For instance, for a January project, Edmonton is up for GA review. Does anyone think this is viable? The Interior (Talk) 05:45, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

A COTM or a COTW? There'd need to be enough editors willing to participate in such an endeavour. -- 76.65.128.43 (talk) 05:50, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
I think COTW would be asking a bit much. As for enough editors, I know we're (Canadian WPians) a fairly productive bunch, just usually we don't know what other editors are working on or cooking up in their sandboxes. The Interior (Talk) 05:55, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Six years ago we stop this idea because of lack of participation - See Wikipedia:Canada collaboration (WP:CCOTW) - That said things have changed much since then and it can be revived. See what others have to say as we have many more active/involved members then we did 7 years ago.Moxy (talk) 06:01, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Sweet! There's a page set up and everything. Thanks Moxy for the link, I'll read the talk archives to see what didn't work last go. The Interior (Talk) 06:32, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Tory

The usage of the title "Tory" is up for discussion, see Talk:Tory -- 76.65.128.43 (talk) 14:11, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Halifax, Nova Scotia

Halifax, Nova Scotia, yet again. 117Avenue (talk) 03:37, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

"Zamboni" and ice resurfacer

I've suggested that a Zamboni company/model article be carved out of ice resurfacer, see talk:ice resurfacer ; as Zambonis frequently appear in Canadian popular culture, I thought I'd let you know. -- 76.65.128.43 (talk) 03:32, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

See also talk:zamboni -- 76.65.128.43 (talk) 11:17, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Laura Secord FAC

I've just nominated the Laura Secord article as a Featured Article Candidate. Any feedback or other input on the nomination would be much appreciate. Curly Turkey (gobble) 21:45, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

I will try to give it a solid review at some point, though I note you have mixed date formats (DMY, then MDY) in the opening sentence. You'd best ensure such formatting is consistent. Good luck! Resolute 00:34, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Heavy POV spin by Tories on Idle No More

I swore I'd never come back but I couldn't add the POV tag without doing so: please see Clear evidence of Tory talking points on Talk:Idle No More. Indigenous watch on this article needed, also a rewrite as a lot of what I'm reading is an echo of the spin put out by the PMO (Prime Minister's Office). I know many of you here are actual Tories but it behooves you as responsible Wikipedians to avoid bias through imitation and live by Wiki principles first, Tory ones second....I was shocked by how tainted that article is......Skookum1 (talk) 15:17, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Ahh yes, more of your vast right-wing conspiracy. You are easily as biased as anyone you accuse of same, Skookum, so feel free to leave the passive-aggressive accusations at the door. Seems interested editors have asked you to provide some references on the article talk page. That seems to be your next step. Resolute 22:39, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
Well, no, it's not a conspiracy, in fact the Tories themselves published materials for their supporters (prepared by their p.r. firm) about how to handle opponents, including alleging conspiracy theory. But there's no doubt about it, it's not conspiracy, it's in-our-face facts, very direct; even in the admin battle to have me booted people taking part in the vote admitted to right=wing alignment and that's why they wanted me gone (even said so). And I wasn't passive in the slightest, Resolute, I'm on the mark; telling me to fix up what somebody else has done by way of imposing/spinning bias into the article isn't helpful; it's for you to realize the bias in the article and deal with it, not just me alone; accusing me of conspiracy delusions and passive-aggression is also impugning mental failings, another tool used by propagandists; trying to make your opponent seem foolish or crazy. I'm about truth, Resolute, not right or left, and I read enough media copy to know what Tory talking points are and they're very obvious in spots here; it's like the Stephen Harper series of "policy articles", which define the national debate around him and over cover him as though he were the most important PM in Canadian history. Also all built around the Tory revisionist rewrite of Canadian history, they one they boast about doing, cutting out the values and policies of the hated liberalization of the Canadian polity since Pearson (actually since King)....I"m not talking about there being a conspiracy, but it's a given there's a cadre of Tory-aligned editors anbd admins here, paid or unpaid, volunteer or professional; and that control of information and "management of debate" is a stated part of the Tory media strategy as just today also affirmed by a CTV broadcast. There are biased and unsourced as well as afactual accounts of history present in the article...I'm in a small beach resort in Cambodia and will work on this as much as I have time to; it's important to have made othr Wikipedians aware of it; this isn't the only Wikiproject I've notified also......like the BC Rail articles and other issues around Canada, the sourcing vs. the spin is hard because the usual RS are not reliable or NPOV at all (especially SunMedia/Quebecor).Skookum1 (talk) 12:52, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
In his defense, at the time he posted this, there was an unsourced paragraph leading the background section. It was removed in this edit. There was also another unsourced and POV paragraph that had been removed earlier. Mindmatrix 03:17, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

@Resolute, I'm tired of hearing that "massive right wing conspiracy" allegation, which interestingly is verbatim what |I see from Tory trollbots on the Huffington Post and other forums. As for its existence here read the first three articles. And I'll be back with press coverage of the Tories' internet strategy/campaign to prove I'm not just a paranoid "conspiracy theorist"......I'm a "truth assertionist".Skookum1 (talk) 10:25, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

You should perhaps read the story of the Boy who Cried Wolf. Every time you are met with something that does not match your very liberal view point, you trot out the old "tory whitewashing" crap. That isn't to say that some of the articles you are complaining about don't have POV concerns, since that is a common issue with political articles. But it become rather difficult to care about the complaints you make because you make so many, always alleging conspiracies. It speaks volumes that you would spend so much time searching for YouTube videos to back up your conspiracy, and none at all providing the requested diffs of edits that slanted the article or a list of sources and concepts that are missing from that article. The latter course of action would have bought respect for your viewpoint. The course you took simply makes you look like you are trying to push your own agenda. Resolute 17:22, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

{{Canadian monarchs}}

Template:Canadian monarchs (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) survived deletion. So what do we do with it? Do we redirect it to template:Canadian monarchy, one of the suggestions at TFD? Or another suggestion at TFD, do we expand it to cover monarchs for the Province of Canada, United Canadas, and Canada of New France? -- 76.65.128.43 (talk) 06:13, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

The result of the discussion was no consensus, not merge. So we don't merge it. 117Avenue (talk) 06:47, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
A no consensus close on that TFD does not preclude a separate discussion (on the talk page of the template) that specifically discusses the merits of a merge. We can decide to redirect, merge or simply leave it as is. Resolute 17:24, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Template:Canada-athletics-bio-stub

I've nominated {{Canada-athletics-bio-stub}} for renaming, since it only deals with track and field, and not 'athletics' of Canadian English; see template talk:Canada-athletics-bio-stub -- 76.65.128.43 (talk) 06:29, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Category:Canadian athletes

I've nominated Category:Canadian athletes for deletion as a recreation of a previously deleted category (Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2011 February 9#Category:Canadian athletes), and a violation of WP:ENGVAR, since it duplicates the meaning of Category:Canadian sportspeople while only containing items appropriate for Category:Canadian track and field athletes -- 76.65.128.43 (talk) 00:19, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Can someone help sorting out Category:Canadian sportspeople to place the categories that should be in Category:Canadian track and field athletes back into it? -- 76.65.128.43 (talk) 08:54, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

Notable Journalist?

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL I am thinking this person may be notable enough to create an article on. Thoughts?--Canoe1967 (talk) 21:43, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

References for Laura Secord

Is there someone who has access to Pierre Berton's Flames Across the Border? The following passage in the Laura Secord article cites Berton's book as a source, but doesn't give a page/pages:

Secord's account of her trek changed throughout her life. Pierre Berton noted that she never stated clearly how she learned of the impending attack. She told FitzGibbon that her husband had learned about it from an American officer, but years later told her granddaughter that she had overheard the plans directly from the American soldiers billeted in her home. Berton suggested that Secord's informant could have been an American still residing in the United States, who would have been charged with treason had Secord revealed her source.

I'm in Japan, so I can't just pop over to the library to do it myself. Your kind effort will be duly rewarded with WikiLove! Curly Turkey (gobble) 01:48, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

As per your request.....Moxy (talk) 02:50, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
  • Pierre Berton (May 18, 2011). Flames Across the Border: 1813-1814. Random House Digital, Inc. p. 63. ISBN 978-0-385-67359-4.
  • Same passage at Berton's book 1812 Pierre Berton (November 1, 2011). Pierre Berton's War of 1812. Random House Digital, Inc. p. 593. ISBN 978-0-385-67650-2.
Awesomely prompt! Thank you so much! Curly Turkey (gobble) 02:55, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Someone with JSTOR access: Page references for Laura Secord?

Could some kind soul with JSTOR access please find out the page numbers in "Looking for Laura Secord on the Web: Using a Famous Figure from the War of 1812 as a Model for Evaluating Historical Web Sites" (JSTOR link) that support the following two statements? :

  1. "Historian Marsha Ann Tate notes that retellings of Secord's account have diverged significantly in everything but the most basic details of the story."
  2. "Other versions [of Secord's story] hold that she left claiming to visit a sick relative in neighbouring St. Davids, and that she walked barefoot for much of the journey."

——— Curly Turkey (gobble) 01:27, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Ok this is an odd one - as in I see no page numbers on the actual pages of the book - However its on pages 225 to 240 of the virtual copy - as in screen pages 225 to 240 - not book page numbers.Moxy (talk) 02:19, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
The article discusses webpages in 2004--long ago--some of them made by schoolchildren, and none prepared by scholars. The point is the quality of information is mediocre. As Tate writes, "beyond basic agreement upon these four facets of the story, the web pages differ-at times markedly-in their depictions of other aspects of the story as shown in Figure 1. Interestingly, relatively few of the web-based accounts note the existence of multiple plausible versions of the story." [p 231 --- my JSTOR has page numbers] barefoot = p 232 It is a fun article, but I do not see how it would be of much use for Wikipedia today, except to note that there are many variationsof the story, including new ones recently invented.Rjensen (talk) 02:55, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
That would explain much - the reading is a bit odd. I would take Rjensen opinion on the work (see hes userpage as to y hes opinion would matter) and remove the material or find better sources. @Rjensen you see the page number on the copy he linked or another version?Moxy (talk) 03:03, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
The JSTOR I used is a pdf exact copy of the original paper article. I can send a copy (it's allowed by JSTOR rules) to anyone who sends their email to rjensen@uic.edu Rjensen (talk) 03:26, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
It was information that was on the page before I started editing it. Since I didn't have access to it, I just left the passages more-or-less as-is, but if the source is not really significant, I think I'll just remove the two lines (I don't think it'll hurt the article). Curly Turkey (gobble) 01:23, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

MINTO - in Cherryhill, London

Hello. i would like to respond to something in the brief article about MINTO and its fairly recent purchase of Cherryhill in London, Ontario, Canada. The article says correctly that the neighbourhood is primarily for seniors and university / college students which is correct. It then goes on to say that it also is for new immigrants. I am not sure on what this is based. i have lived in Cherryhill for 15 yrs now and have seen little if any signs of this new immigrant population. The adjacent city block contants a mosque and on Fridays as well as Muslem holy days a distinctly global presence can be seen and many of the students are international but essentially Cherryhill is comprised of seniors and transient students. . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.34.60.90 (talk) 06:22, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

 Done. I removed it as unsourced.--Canoe1967 (talk) 06:35, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

New intro

I have taken the liberty of updating our main page for this project Wikipedia:WikiProject Canada- linking things like our vital articles and Guide in the lead. Could I get a few to copy-edit this change - as you all know I use speech to text because of my MS and not sure all is ok.Moxy (talk) 17:41, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Looks good to me! Resolute 00:35, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Map requested of Francophone Canada

Hello, friendly neighbors to the north! I've tagged French language in Canada with {{map requested}}. I'd like to see a map of the prevalence of French within Canada. I'm envisioning something colo(u)r-coded by province, but I'll leave the particulars up to someone with expertise. It may also make sense to make separate maps for native languages versus proficiency in French as a second language. Spanish language in the United States has some examples of the sort of map I'd like to see, though note that some of those are prevalence of Hispanic Americans rather than Spanish speakers (related categories to be sure, but not identical). Thanks, BDD (talk) 00:13, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

There are a bunch of map junkies over at commons that could probably make some for you. They may have one already done.--Canoe1967 (talk) 13:12, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Province of Canada / Province of Quebec

Is the importance of Canada (New France) , Province of Canada or Province of Quebec (1763–1791) correct? It says "low", but the interim iteration, The Canadas says "high", Upper Canada & Lower Canada are "high", Canada East is "mid" -- 76.65.128.43 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 11:55, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

I've updated the importance ratings on those 3 articles, to mid-level. Thanks for flagging this. PKT(alk) 13:07, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

WW II financial statement

I found File:Audtor General report Canada1946.pdf which I think shows how much the war cost the federal government. Our debt went from 3 bil. in 1939 to 13 bil. in 1946 it seems. I haven't had time to read it in detail but someone else may wish to make tables, graphs, expand our war years articles with it, etc.--Canoe1967 (talk) 13:17, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Province of Canada

We are having a discussion on the article Province of Canada, you are invited to participate at Talk:Province of Canada#Empire of the St. Lawrence -- 70.24.246.233 (talk) 14:03, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Long-ago article I created has name issue resulted in bad category name

Please see Talk:Chilcotin_District re recent change from Category:Chilcotin Country to Category:Chilcotin District...latter is misleading as explained... Category:Chilcotin would be better but if I'm not mistaken Chilcotin is a dab page and has to be...."district" was arbitrary when I was knew to Wikipedia, the -Country names in BC are hard to cite but long-standing (over a century old and well-known and in wide use).....I'm not in the mood for a CFD and it sounds like "we" have to change the article name first...Skookum1 (talk) 17:40, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

American football protective equipment

American football protective equipment has been proposed to expand to cover Canadian football, see talk:American football protective equipment -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 01:56, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Glacial retreat material

This article - [[1]] is sorely lacking in Canadian content; only Garibaldi Park and the Illecillwaet Glacier in the Selkirks are mentioned; Washington and Alaska have huge content by comparison. Anyone with interest in or familiarity with glaciology materials please note.Skookum1 (talk) 10:07, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

Jumbo Glacier, British Columbia - new "Mountain Resort Municipality" stub

It's been ages since I've made one but had to do it as this was a blank spot in BC municipalities articles; only created last December. I don't have time to create it or fix the stubs and format I can't remember, see Talk:Jumbo_Glacier,_British_Columbia and this Tyee article-google and regular google etc...Skookum1 (talk) 16:55, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

I've reformatted the refs (the format I use reduces the clutter in the wikitext and shifts all ref templates to the end). I've also made other adjustments. Mindmatrix 17:09, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

NTS topo link on maps page obsolete

I don't know where to take this, the NTS Topo link on the GeoHack page is obsolete. Is there a talkpage for that service or where should this be taken for fixing?Skookum1 (talk) 07:49, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

The GeoHack talkpage is at Template talk:GeoTemplate. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 08:19, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
K thanks, I'll take it there; I think the same applies to Atlas of Canada links though they're not on GeoHack.....at bivouac the site owner had a way of hacking code to use BC Basemap without opening the page, but going directly to a specific point; I meant to study the code before I quit but never did.Skookum1 (talk) 08:46, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

"BlackBerry"

The primary topic of "BlackBerry" is under discussion, see Talk:BlackBerry (company), to determine if BlackBerry or the former Research in Motion (now BlackBerry) is the primary topic. -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 15:20, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Pemberton BC needs climate table

I just noticed it's missing one - here. Someone wanna refer that on to the appropriate WikiProject, or just get it done? Probably lots of other smaller towns don't have one yet also.Skookum1 (talk) 07:30, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Decided to go through the places in BC that would/might have weather stations and make a list of which articles needing them; some may not have weather stations which is why they don't have climate sections though....:
    • Anmore
    • Belcarra
    • Cache Creek
    • Canal Flats
    • Chase (article needs significant expansion)
    • Clinton
    • Cumberland = this is part of greater Courtenay-Comox so the climate section could contain a reference to look in those towns' climate sections, it's a bit wetter than Courtenay though, I think being closer to the mountains, and quite a bit wetter than Comox, which is in a sort of small rain shadow
    • Fruitvale - could refer to Trail, though it is not quite the same climate though adjacent; same with nearby Montrose which also has no climate table yet
    • Granisle
    • Harrison Hot Springs (has weather station I think, def slightly different climate than nearby Kent-Agassiz in my experience
    • Lions Bay
    • Midway
    • New Hazelton - could refer to Hazelton's table; they adjoin each other or are within slingshot range of each other

Taking a break, I'm in the 'p's now, if someone wants to take the lead....I think there's a climate person in this wikiproject, if not please take this section to the Climate wikiproject or working group, whatever it might be; I've only been in the villages category so far.Skookum1 (talk) 13:33, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Comma-British Columbia

What was decided about this long ago, there's various BC placename articles that have this that if the strict naming convention were applied wouldn't. I know we had a discussion about whether or not to use it; I just noticed Port Clements has it but it's a unique placename, and there's others in the above list like Pouce Coupe that are totally unique. Comma-British Columbia or not to Comma-British Columbia?Skookum1 (talk) 13:46, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

If there is a place that should be moved to the plain title, go ahead as per WP:CANSTYLE. It's a work-in-progress, so there remain many inconsistencies. --Skeezix1000 (talk) 17:31, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Pinche

This had been in the villages category but it's a native community, not an incorporated village; don't know if it's on reserve or not, it might not be but for now put it in FN reserves...there should be a list of FN communities because many are not on reserves,and there are communities within reserves, and many reserves are uninhabited and ancillary to bands who live on a main reserve.Skookum1 (talk) 13:35, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Persons of National Historic Significance (stats update)

So first let me say great job to all over this past year that created some of the missing bios from Persons of National Historic Significance. Did wonderfully getting almost 30 bios done this year - So here we are again one year later and down to just over 45 to go. Lets see if this is the year we get all the red links done - Dont think this is a hard goal and in fact think we should break them up by occupation and ask for some help from the literature, education and women's etc...projects. Those that answered this call last year - I urge you again to jump-in get your feet wet with some fresh Canadian water - if your new to the idea - pic a red linked name from the article Persons of National Historic Significance. Most people will have bios at Dictionary of Canadian Biography Online. GO Canada GO -- Moxy (talk) 17:04, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Leon Koerner's name I know from his philanthropy in arts and education; UBC Library should have some material on him, there's a Leon and Thea Koerner collection, also a theatre or arts centre in their name; more around the city, been a while now but the name is important in UBC's history.Skookum1 (talk) 17:35, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
here's some resources from googling their usual combined name.Skookum1 (talk) 18:26, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
I agree - it is odd there not together normally hear "Leon and Thea Koerner" rather then just "Leon Koerner". We should make 2 articles or just one?Moxy (talk) 18:50, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
Only Leon is in the official list so we have to stick to that don't we? A shortcoming of the list, there are others....
I created an article for Ernest Melville DuPorte. I had first attempted one for Mokwina, but there seems to be confusion about spelling (eg - Maquinna, Muquinna, etc.), as well as who or what it represents. For example, there's Maquinna about an individual, and also his son, or maybe a series of individuals who held a hereditary title of that name. The Canadian Encyclopedia has two articles about the father and son, and other sources are not particularly clear. Someone with more knowledge about this subject may want to tackle it. Mindmatrix 23:26, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
The current Maquinna is 7th or 8th of his line. And I think that is the proper modern Nuu-chah-nulth spelling, I'm not sure, maybe the listmaker knows better......WP:COMMONNAME applies to the article title, maybe here if the list says "Mokwina" it should appear as "Mokwina (Maquinna)"....one of the Nuu-chah-nulth ancillary organizations, not a band, has a username here, they have edited various articles, not sure if they're active, doubt it, but contact information should be found and queries made; in general WP:AUTO can't really apply because such organizations are often the only available published sources, applies to bands in general also, whether for language or resources or political organizations/structures....Skookum1 (talk) 08:31, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
The Maquinna who hosted Cook and Vancouver and de la Bodega y Quadra and seized Capt Meares' ship is the historically important person in question; I think.....Skookum1 (talk) 08:33, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
BTW: for those that create new articles, consider submitting it to DYK within five days of creation. DYK could use some Canadian content (or anything not US or UK centric). Mindmatrix 23:26, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
I created John Hendry (industrialist) more than 5 days ago. I don't know how to DYK it if someone else wants to. The RS is confusing to me as well. More material can be added from it if someone wants to try and sort it out. See the talk page of the article. --Canoe1967 (talk) 17:01, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
Unfortunately, DYK is strict about nomination dates - it must be nominated within five days of creation, and the text portion must be at least 1500 characters (ie - after excluding categories, infoboxes, references, etc.) for consideration. You can circumvent this by creating articles in your userspace and moving them to the article space when ready. Mindmatrix 16:09, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Skeena Cellulose needs article

Redlinked this on the Terrace, British Columbia article because of its status as one of the largest publicly-owned corporate failures in BC history; quite a long story and lately in the news because of bribery charges of the local MP by a Chinese investor.Skookum1 (talk) 04:14, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

IPEX could use an article as well if anyone is in the mood. I am COI with the company though.--Canoe1967 (talk) 04:23, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

February 2013 nor'easter

Can some people help flesh out the impact of this storm on Canada? [2] It currently only contains information about the US. -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 22:50, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

It is absolutely baffling to me that we waste time writing articles on snowstorms. I mean Jesus Christ... 30cm peak snowfall? That's not news, that's just winter. Resolute 23:51, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
Agree - our project seems to be moving towards being a news paper over and encyclopedia. If there is to be an article we should wait see the outcome - not report updates like a news paper. What is even worst is the whole thing is referenced to news organizations who's links will be dead in a few months. These editors would be more usefull at Wikinews over this site - but O well what can we do many like to regurgitating news here.Moxy (talk) 00:01, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
We have an article, the storm affected Canada, so as long as it exists on Wikipedia, it should have some Canadian content. Does Wikinews even cover news anymore? Most of the stories on Wikinews seem to be about minor topics, major news is missing from it. -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 06:18, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
Hey - we got 35cm where I live! I agree with your comments, though, with the exception that this is news, and belongs on Wikinews, not Wikipedia. (Of course, this is based on a definition of "news" that includes trivialities...) Mindmatrix 00:03, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
Well... there's now the storm surge in Nova Scotia, and flooding of historic buildings. -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 02:11, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
The debate on the article's name has ignored that (as far as I know) the Canadian media isn't using any name for the storm. isaacl (talk) 00:10, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
The naming of snow storms is something the American Weather Channel does to try and maintain some shred of relevancy. Most likely this article will end up at at title saying "February 2013 North American Snowstorm" or some such nonsense to match the others. Resolute 00:49, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
Didn't Lastman call out the army for 30cm of snow? -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 06:16, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

I saw earlier that this storm has a name, don't know if it's American or Canadian in origin, and wonder also if "Nor'easter" shouldn't be capitalized, though it's not a proper name? What I really came by about is below, and noting the discussion re WikiNews the reason it doen'st have current stuff is its approval process is very laborious and not many wikipedians are over there, they're drowned in work created by rules; as a result many articles here havecontemporary news-type material that shluld'nt be in Wikipedia but over there; some process to expedite that maybve could make WikiNews into what it could be (a genuinely free press not bound to the "reliable sources" aka mainstream media as WP tends to be....Skookum1 (talk) 15:57, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

As mentioned by Resolute, the US Weather Channel has taken to naming winter storms so it can use a handle to refer to them. isaacl (talk) 16:59, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

more POV/attack edits on FN/IDNM articles

I noted a personal attack edit on User talk:The Interior of a very nasty nature, hadn't looked at the edit history but looked up the 99.xx IP address, it's Ottawa, and was that other on a slew of military articles he'd vandalized other native articles; and noticed he'd interloped on Theresa Spence where his edits were blocked by The Interior and others (which is probably why TI's talkpage got the nasty bit it did....so I went to the Theresa Spence article and sure enough POV=charged personal attacks plus others by a 24.xxx IP address in Halifax, and noticed that same address went after Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs with some politicized unreferenced material added in bulk since reversed by me just now (recognizable to me as "script" as seen from trolls in the HuffPo forums).....the whole article is unreferenced but was all "neutral" material about governmance; these were attack edits; strikes me that Shawn Atleo and other related articles in the FN department should probably be regularly watched and that both SPAs and IPs doing this should be reported, blocked, even published ...... Canada needs a wikiscanner type system, I know that's offline right now but coming on again soon, but never DID have many CAnadian listings; I"m gonna go look at the activities of the redlinked SPA on the AMC article now, see what he's been up to; I hate having to play WikiCop, WikiDetective; this is such an important site for p.r. companies and spin machines that "we" can no longer remain innocent about it, some measures must be taken.....maybe I"ll apply to Wikimania and raise it, since I'm in SE Asia right now (and far, far, far from that Nor'Easter LOL) and hoping to stay.....Skookum1 (talk) 15:57, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

About that SPA, User:DanielEditsThings he appears to have only done four edits before going after the AMC one for two edits. Two were Australian, one about Malaysia, another about a 1974 film, "practice edits" and I've seen POV edits about Canada originating from Australian (supposedly) users before and/or Aussie IPs.....my blogger friends in the BC Rail scandal regularly got Aussie IPs that were clearly from Canadians because of their content.... jes' sayin'......there's wolvesin Wikiland, we need more shepherds and a wolfhound or two....Skookum1 (talk) 16:02, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

Category:British Columbia political scandals

Is this just for scandal articles or all the people and roads that are listed in it as well? Thoughts?--Canoe1967 (talk) 01:05, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Well,some political "scandals" in BC are just media hype; the Fast Ferries Scandal really wasn't a scandal in the usual sense of the word for example; and some highways for example have particular scandals associated with them, if tehy're not written up in the linked article they shouldn't be linked. Lots of scandals go unreported or "washed" by the media; it's a complicated subject in BC...the current msyterious voter poll (3.7 million people being called without anyone knowing who's doing it "as if we didn't know") is potentially very scandalous but the media aren't digging for it; they're paid not to of course (ads and kickbacks and such). More on this later, I'm packing for a trip tonight.....Skookum1 (talk) 03:02, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
some scandal are glaringly absent, and part of the wiki-problem is if a so-called "reliable source" hasn't called them a scandal, neither can we.....Skeena Cellulose is in fact emblematic of that, not just the NDP bailout and its collapse, but also the new charges of bribery of the local Tory MP; smae with Fast FErries; initially a case of overspending and bad judgement, it wasn't really scandalous; selling too ferries worth hundreds of million dollars for ten million total, THAT was a scandal, and a waste of public assets, but the media don't call that part a scandal.....I could go on about stuff like this, stuff that should be branded scandalous but the media ("reliable sources") are in teh business of covering tracks, not following them.Skookum1 (talk) 03:06, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
Generally speaking, the category should only be applied to articles where the "scandal" itself is the primary subject of the article (or at least the primary reason why the thing has an article), and not to articles which merely happen to include information about a related "scandal" or controversy as a subsection within an article about a broader topic. For instance, Fast Ferry Scandal is acceptable, as the "scandal" itself is the topic of the article (and whether it was really a "scandal" or not isn't for us to decide; if that's what it gets called by the media, then we accept that description whether we personally agree with it or not.) And Fantasy Gardens is acceptable as well; even though the article is technically about the whole thing and not just the "scandalous" aspects alone, the scandalous aspects are the main reason why it even qualifies for an article in the first place. However, British Columbia Highway 99 is an example of something that doesn't belong in the category, as it's an article about a highway which merely contains a small subsection about a couple of protests over its expansion (and "protests" fall considerably short of constituting an actual full-fledged "scandal", obviously.)
the history of Highway 99 is difficult to cite because Izzy Asper ordered destroyed all the digital archives of what was to become Canwest Global in 1993, including TV and all Vancouver Sun and Province coverage for recent decades; what remains is in Special Collections and the Archives and not readily availble; so the spending overruns and graft and things like the Premier(s) having land along the route and benefitting from it, and the "hidden tolls" on it which were uncovered by Laila Yuile, also those on the new Port Mann, and the ties between those companies involved nad the ruling party and so on; all known in the alternative press and in blogdom, not much of it citable because of wiki rules.....granted, the existing articles don't dig into this stuff much; another example is the Coquihalla, infamous for its graft overruns and shoddy construction and bad grades, but also not as well known (but citable) is the Premier's brother R. buying up all available land in the Nicola Valley before the highway's announcement, all of which got buried by the media attention on trhe Doman Scandal....BC scandaldom is so old and complexly and mutually entrenched that when we hear the nostrum that Quebec is the most corrupt province in Canada, all we can is snort.....and at some point the line in the sand has to be drawn because of the partisan domination of hte mainstream media in BC and the West (someone in CAnwest boasted around 2001 that they'd gotten rid of every liberal/leftist journalist west of the Lakehead.....). Thre's more credible alternative media now - the Tyee, the STraight, some of the local papers like the Terrace Daily and Gulf Islands Tides; but on the whole it's a vast sea of manure and as with the BC Rail/Leg Raids material, so complex that you have to understand the place (and care about it) to explore and write it all up....Skookum1 (talk) 16:31, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
Strictly speaking, I'm not too crazy about the "political scandals" wording, as it's dancing perilously close to posing an WP:NPOV problem. But unfortunately, that nomenclature comes straight from the main international parent Category:Political scandals, meaning we're stuck with it unless and until somebody tackles renaming or scratching the whole tree. Bearcat (talk) 16:05, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
yeah I agree, which is why letting the media-branding of things like the Fast Ferries stand as a scandal when it's really not is right on-point; "Fast Ferries Fiasco" is also citable, btw....Skookum1 (talk) 16:31, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
I mentioned it at the village pump. As to Hwy 99, my dad had friend that was the head of BC highway construction that always pushed to move the Whistler section behind the mountains from Vancouver from under them. Any coastal highway in rock like that is hard to maintain and expand. His idea was forever shot down and now can't be done easily because of the watershed and tree-huggers.--Canoe1967 (talk) 17:03, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
It couldn't be done from the start long before the slag "tree-hugger" came out; the watersheds were established in the 1890s and were never even considered for the Squamish connection originally because they were sacrosanct; my Dad worked for Hydro and had occasional reason to go in there (Capilano) and had to have two weeks of urine tests; if the tree-huggers so-called had any power there never would have been any logging and turbidification of the watersheds.....Howe Sound was never a good route, for sure; and the old-era logging in the high-altitude basins, big bowls up near the peaks, is what lay behind the vertical debris-chute activity of the M Creek Disaster and since.....Capilano was raised as the viable route for an LRT or even Skytrain line to Squamish and Whistler; train would be better than highway but the politics are never onside in BC when it comes to freeway thinking vs rail development; the amount spent on maintaining and upgrading Highway 99 just as far as Squamish since it opened would easily have paid for rail service... that Furry Creek was spec'd and developed on the hopes that the Capilano route would make it central and even more valuable is a backstory here....Indian Arm was blocked by aboriginal concerns, but also Squamish's watershed would be the last leg; highways pollute more than rail lines, at least non-freight rail lines......anyways tree-huggers have very little clout in the Corridor, though you'd think otherwise and your DAd clearly did.....loggers held the biggest sway, by far.Skookum1 (talk) 05:51, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

April - National Contribution Month

Good day Canadian Wikipedians' notice board,

During the month of April, Wikimedia Canada is preparing the National Contribution Month, and we are looking for experienced contributors to organize a contribution day (or half-day) in their region.

Contribution days are activities where Wikipedia's contributors, students, or anybody interested in contributing to Wikipedia meets together to collectively improve a predetermined theme. These meetings generally take place in library where references are easy of access, but can be organized in any communal room. Beside improving articles, a goal of this participatory workshops is to initiate neophyte in the cooperative contribution of Wikipedia.

If you are interested in organizing or participating in a contribution day in your region, communicate witht he national team on the project's talk page. The exact agenda of each local event is left to the discretion of the organizer. Help is available for the organization from contributors who already organized these type of days, so don't be worried. If you have any questions or want more information, don't hesitate to contact us.

Amqui (talk) 02:00, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

"Power station" cats vs Canadian usage "electrical generating station"

I'm just back and in no mood for a combative CfD like happened last time I tried to correct a blanket wiki-decision that exempted the US pages from the imposition of the British English standard "power station"......95% of Canadian generating stations do not use the British form, i.e. since we're former British Empire etc...; I pointed this out in the CfD and was dissed because I was Canadian and "they knew better" what we should be using; power plant and powerhouse are far more common in colloquial English, but the formal name "generating station" is the Canadian norm. Just pointing out the Category:Lists_of_power_stations_in_Canada and Category:Power stations in Canada and their subcats need to be changed to Canadian English; but I won't go into such a CfD without other WP:Canada members to back it up, even propose it....Skookum1 (talk) 06:15, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Time for a Racknine article?

I'm too POV about this to write it from scratch, but given their emergent role in teh Saskatchewan push poll and the resurfacing of the surname "Poutine" as one of their clients.....seems like high time.....; politically-connected corporate articles can be a minefield and will also attrack WP:OWN types......jes' sayin' 'cause I was surprised to find there's no article yet.Skookum1 (talk) 04:53, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Anglican Diocese of New Westminster

Anglican Diocese of New Westminster has a notice at Talk:Anglican Diocese of New Westminster that says that it is written in British English, considering it being a Canadian diocese, and its place in same-sex marriage for the Anglican Church of Canada, shouldn't this be written in Canadian English? -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 05:07, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Ethnicity categories troubling to me

I know it's a Wikipedia-wide standard but I find it disturbing as a Canadian; please see Category_talk:Canadian_people_by_ethnic_or_national_origin#This_category_weirds_me_outSkookum1 (talk) 06:14, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

I think that is the influence of bigoted editors from the US. They are labeled as 'ethno-taggers'. Bob Dylan has a fine example on his talk page. The WP:BLPN has a few entries about it as well. The categories using 'ethnic decent' irk me as well. If you look at a few bio articles you will see 20+ categories clogging the bottom of the pages with every little DNA strand they think they can source. You may wish to bring it up at village pump/policy to see if consensus was reached or just out-voted by all the bigots and racists. I see the Scots have created their own wiki, perhaps Canada should do the same.--Canoe1967 (talk) 16:52, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
Whoa, easy on the racism there chap. UrbanNerd (talk) 03:40, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
Cool LOL. I like this bit: "Lesser-uised leids o the Breetish Isles: Gaeilge na hÉireann (Erse Gaelic) · Gàidhlig na h-Alba (Scots Gaelic) · Gaelg Vanninagh (Manx) · Cymraeg (Welsh) · Karnuack (Cornish) · Nouormand (Norman)" Maybe for sure there should be one for Newfanese?? Need more NL editors for that, I'd guess.......ever heard of "Waddyapp"? Had it on my lost iPhone (swallowed by the Andaman Sea, or stolen by a monkey, at Tonsai Beach, either one; maybe a hairless ape, not sure, too late now.Skookum1 (talk) 17:03, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
That pages raises the question of if there's a quebecois wikipedia......I suggest to a friend in Clare NS just now that they might want to do one in acadien....which is based in Norman French.....Skookum1 (talk) 18:01, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
Slightly different situation since Scots is an actual iso identified language. -DJSasso (talk) 18:23, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
The categories are rather ridiculous in many cases, but we're talking about a well defined and deeply entrenched tree with well over 1,000 categories. It isn't something that could be handled by a CFD. You'd have to propose their elimination at a village pump via WP:RFC, and frankly, I'm not sure the argument it would spark would be worth the time. I've already got one ethinic/nationalistic feud on the go already, and it is one too many. Resolute 18:30, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
Calling "ethno-tagging" racist is ridiculous. I don't see the problem, it's another way to categorize people, which is the whole point of categories. I'm a proud Canadian, but would have no problem calling myself of Irish, German or English descent. Someone's ethnic background is certainly just as interesting as any other demographic information about the person. Only actual racists would look any further into the issue. -- Earl Andrew - talk 18:38, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
The issue with a lot of these categories is that they are guesses. Mayumashu for example tags (or did tag) a lot of articles with them and he has outright admitted he uses nothing more than guessing their ethnicity by their last name. I don't doubt this is the case for a very large number of articles that people put in these categories. I do agree it has nothing to do with racism. -DJSasso (talk) 18:42, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
Guessing based on surname is of course Original research, and should be frowned upon. I do remember a case where someone had tagged an article based on a woman's married name, which is a good reason for that kind of practice to be avoided. -- Earl Andrew - talk 18:54, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
  • If WP:CA can't get rid of these, I think we should at least make some guidelines about how to apply them to Canadian people. Situations where someone has 20 ethnicity tags, as Canoe1967 described, are not helpful. I suspect that most white Canadians who've been here for a few generations are a mix of English, Scottish, French, and German. Do we tag them with each of those? Do we tag them with all 20 ethnicities for which they have at least one ancestor for ten generations ago? A substantial portion of Asian-Canadians are descendents of Genghis Khan, should they all be tagged as Mongolian? Heck, why not tag every single Canadian under Category:Canadian people of Ethiopian descent, it's technically true. We really need a firm standard about how these are used. —Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 19:20, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
      • more on this later, I'm packing for a long overnight trip tonight, but just to note that genetic/mitochondrial studies have shown that a lot of Europeans are of Mongol descent....many direct male descendants of the Great Khan himself (he was a busy guy....1000 sons); one village in Switzerland or Alsace somewhere about 60% of hte men display the Mongol "half moon" skin-stain on the lower back, for example. Many Scots and Irish and French and Dutch and .... etc. are of Scandinavian descent; many poeple in southern Spain of Visigothic stock, i.e. with ancestry in Gotland or the Swedish Gothic provinces, those of Burgundian descent are ultimately from Bornholm ("Burgundarholm" in Old Norse...about half the Icelandic gene pool is Irish....Skookum1 (talk) 03:17, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
    • If we can properly reference 20 ethnicity for a person, then I don't see why not. But I assume there's no article where that is even remotely the case. But I see your point, it would be good to have some sort of cut off. Luckily the issue will rarely if ever come up. -- Earl Andrew - talk 20:27, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
I agree with Earl. I don't see the problem here. (And I wish people would be a little more reticient to start using the racist and bigot words.) If properly referenced (and I appreciate that there seem to many articles where the inclusion of the category is not), these categories simply reference a fact. I also agree with Resolute that this is not something that can be dealt with through a simple CFD or a chat here at WP:CANTALK. Finally, I do not think we need a new guideline to deal with the occasional ridiculous example. If an article is tagged with 20 different ethnicities, then we have plenty of existing policies and guidelines here at Wikipedia that would allow us to look at those categories critically and deal with them, not to mention common sense. Skeezix1000 (talk) 20:48, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
No need for panic here - lets face it categories are not seen much at all here - i.e = Article Canada viewed about 20,000 times a day and its cat about 25 times a day (our most popular cat) - That said I agree with Skeezix1000 position.Moxy (talk) 20:55, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

What set me off this was coming across the List of Chinese Canadians......so many questionably notable people, I took off a few redlinks there's a few left, but wonder at the notability of a lot of the others; is someone who lives in Vancouver but is as star in Hong Kong notable as Canadians? It's a tough question, and "only your passport knows for sure".....I suspect a lot of the articles about them (lots of blue links) may not fulfill notability criteria; but the emphasis on ethnicity across the board is disturbing, when multiculturalism wasn't supposed to be about separate people, but uniting Canadians as a new people; lots has shifted since the policy was coalesced in the early '70s, now it's about being apart, and raises the "What is a Canadian" issue; but also "what is ethnicity"? The same applies to list of Canadian-Americans and American-Canadians; Jack Webster was an ardent Scot, but also first and foremost a passionate Canadian....this becomes a political/cultural discussion very quickly; and also raises the issue of who many biographies out there really aren't notable but there's maybe not enough WP:BIO people to go over them all....sorting people by ethnicity shouldn't be any encyclopedia's job; it's trivia, really, but there's so much trivia and questionable content on Wikipedia it's like trying to face a mountain of manure and dissecting it with a toothpick; ther'es the Quadripoint article (originaly "Four Corners") which is totally specious and based on interpolative OR and trivia, but has survived at least on AFD, for example.....List of bored and frustrated Wikipedians comes to mind.... .;-)Skookum1 (talk) 03:21, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

I'm not thrilled when articles, lists or categories use terms like "Chinese-Canadian", "Irish-Canadian", etc. as those tend to be viewed as terms of identity, and it's not always clear that the subjects identify themselves as such (esp. where the subject has a multi-ethnic background, as so many Canadians do).

However, as I said above, I am not bothered whatsoever by the term "Canadian people of x descent" as it merely conveys a fact (assuming it is properly sourced). It has nothing to do with being a proud Canadian, Canadian unity, or the nature of being a Canadian - I fail to see how the categories related to ancestry and "Canadian-ness" are mutually exclusive, or how the former adversely affects the latter. As for the nationality question (i.e. is a Hong Kong movie star a Canadian because (s)he holds Canadian passport), it is a well-established principle here on Wikipedia that we don't engage in WP:OR exercises of determining whether or not we consider a subject to truly be of a certain nationality or not. It's a yes or no question. Is the subject a citizen of Canada? Then (s)he is Canadian. If the subject is also a citizen of another country(ies), then (s)he is also of those nationalities. Its no more complicated than that. --Skeezix1000 (talk) 13:38, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Skookum, you're beginning to dive into having a certain political opinion on this, and that is not having a Neutral point of view. But if you want to bring up politics, you must remember Canada is a multicultural country that is often described as a "mosaic" - a nation of nations rather than the American blending pot. Like it or not, Canada is a country of many different distinct cultures, many of which aren't blended to create some sort of cohesive culture like the US pretends to have. -- Earl Andrew - talk 14:57, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
that's not my point/agenda at all, Earl Andrew (btw it's Skookum1 not just Skookum, as in Skookum-one per a CB handle). A while back I corrected Colin Hansen's ethno cat, even asked him by email to make sure; he'd been under Canadians of Danish descent, rather than the correct Canadians of Norwegian descent. What ticked me about the CC page was the number of "who??" items on it, and methinks a lot don't fulfill WP:N though that bears closer examination in all such lists. But listing someone from HK who happens to live in Vancouver, who may be a star there but isn't notable here (to non-Chinese anyway) and may not be a citizen, that's different; and in general yes I find ethno-tagging very uncomfortable and though not "racist" as someone called it above, it's very WP:TRIVIA unless someone is notable on the national stage partly because of their ethnicity e.g. Ujjal Dossanjh, the first Indo-Canadian premier etc......with FN and other aboriginal peoples it's a bit different because outside of Canada they're largely not known at all, but could be highly notable within their own history/culture; but they're indigenous and that's a very different matter.....I'm equally wary of Category:Canadians of English descent and though there's probably not a List of Canadians of English descent it becomes absurd if there were hundreds of entries, as indeed there would be huh? I also don't like to see place articles with census tables listing percentages of tiny visible minorities, e.g. 10 people making .10% etc, when other classifications such as national origin/birthplace are ignored......WP:UNDUE in general about ethnicity and "visible minorities"....tub-thumping to me, and often so obscure and irrelevant it's data-clutter.Skookum1 (talk) 09:58, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Joe Fortes image deletion proposed?

Please see here.Skookum1 (talk) 08:04, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Postscript to Metro/Greater Vancouver CfD

Common sense victorious, if that's not too unwikipedian to say......the issue now is in CANSTYLE is the common usage in Vancouver-area and BC and national articles "Metro Vancouver" when referring to the conurbation to remain? True, many sources will use it as a metropolitan reference and it's common (especially younger generation people and always in the mainstream media for COI reason) but the same rationales re the CfD also apply to the Metro Vancouver article and also its usage on the fly in text, unless referring to the board....Skookum1 (talk) 16:16, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Just to note this CfD's positive result means that IRs and old settlements and such (IRs are not part of the RDs, and old settlements never were because they're dead and gone now...long before RDs came into existence) can now be included in the category or need a subcat Category:Indian reserves in Greater Vancouver (NB not for band government articles, that's different though in some provinces the reserve/government articles are, so far, synonymous); this was not appropriate before. Category:Band governments in Greater Vancouver might be OK, though I know at last one indigenous editor (now inactive) who might object and want a by-nation-only cat hierarchy; but he's also anti-"Indian act governments" and likewise tribal councils, so probably won't care; this is by region-reference only is what I'm thinking....Skookum1 (talk) 16:53, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
A TACfD is being echoed here; I pointed Wikidsoup to the CfD just now.Skookum1 (talk) 02:08, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Misnamed category; needs split; raises issue of dividing Mountains cat

In looking through the parent cats of Category:Greater Vancouver, namely via Category:Lower Mainland, I was pondering making a Category:Mountains in the Lower Mainland category and considering applying the regions cats across the board as a way to subdivide the immense Category:Mountains of British Columbia. Then I stumbled upon Category:Mountains and ski resorts in the Okanagan and went WHUH? Will have to look again to see who made it; it's ill-advised and not applicable across the province's regions; an ancillary issue of how to maybe rename or adjust the names of the various Category:Geographic regions of British Columbia, as the recent CfD for Category:Chilcotin Country to Category:Chilcotin District was very wrong, especially with that capitalization; as with the Okanagan situation, maybe "Chilcotin (region)" is preferable.....anyways please see here about the Okanagan mountains/ski resorts category and issues it raises; maybe the discussion could focus there; seems a simple enough split but I"m not gonna assay a CfD on my own; the mountains-by-geographic-region discussion can be at Category talk:Mountains of British Columbia and may apply to the mountain ranges cats, though there's less reasons to divide them by region (they're fewer and already come in their own hierarchy), but this one definitely needs to be split....and all the ski resort articles should be watchlisted for WP:OWN and WP:COI violations; a further issue came up re Sun Peaks Resort and it's on the category talk page too.....Skookum1 (talk) 16:16, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Another wrongly-done/hasty CfS

Another ill-advised CfS was the Category:Chilcotin District formerly "Country" one, because of the name of the parent article; apparently made by someone not familiar with BC or its landscape or BC usages. See here.....that should be reversed or as per comments above renamed (both main article and category) to "Chilcotin (region)". Capital-D infers incorporation of some kind, and the capital-C on the older title is har to cite; editors (especially with Eastern publishers) tend to put it lower case, though as with "Lillooet Country" (which is citable in print, like "Lower Mainland") it's a very common usage; but whereas the term "the Lillooet" is no longer used for region, though was once common, "the Chilcotin" stands as a region name, like "the Cariboo" and "the Kootenays"...all those when I created their cats I'd added "Country" to harmonize with the Peace Country, Lillooet Country etc but I'll grant those are archaic usages but they are distinct and identifiable regions (to the point where when a Lillooeter (from the region not the town) is coming "home", we know exactly when we're re-entering the "country".....Skookum1 (talk) 16:30, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Found the article Canadian popular culture today - not sure what to think - no sources - stereotypes/OR ? is this worth keeping or should be nominate for deletion?Moxy (talk) 18:29, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

I think it's poorly done. Rjensen (talk) 18:34, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
Apparently, according to this article, both English and French love Molson and Labatts beer. It's a "touchtone" of our culture.

It's unsourced OR. We have much better articles on Canadian music, literature, film, television, etc., and I think Culture of Canada is a much better overview. I would nominate this for deletion. --Skeezix1000 (talk) 18:37, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Why dont we just blank it and redirect to Culture of Canada.Moxy (talk) 18:40, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
Yes. --Skeezix1000 (talk) 18:43, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
 Done.Moxy (talk) 18:46, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

possible sentence for 2 indictable offences - in Canada

Hi, I am currenly on a release with conditions. I was arrested by warrant for 2 break and enter and commit theft 348.1b and wearing a disguise with intent - I hav been charged with 2 counts of each. I have my first appearance this coming week, what can I possibly expect the crown ask for sentencing in the disclosure package? Bonnie0813 (talk) 04:37, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

It would greatly depend on your criminal record, value of the items stolen (if any), and if anyone was threatened or injured. 348.1 of the Criminal Code of Canada is a serious offense. Break & enter into a dwelling, whilst the occupants are home (home invasion). You could get a maximum sentence of life in prison. The average sentence for a crime of this nature is 7 years. Redeightyone (talk) 17:31, 16 February 2013 (UTC)


Hi Bonnie, we're not legal experts here. Or some of us may be, but we don't give out legal advice. The Interior (Talk) 04:57, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

COI and ADVERT and EXPAND tags placed on Williams Creek (British Columbia)

Had a useful cite for historical details, came by and discovered it's been seriously expanded, without formatting (which I just fixed, and hid some overtly stock-promotional text that may be salvageable), by the holder of claims bundled together under a namesake company. Have also let WP:Mining know as well. This creek is as historically important as Eldorado Creek and the Klondike River in Canadian mining history; read p.110 and on from there here and any good book on the Cariboo Gold Rush. Needs some savaging re COI and SPAM but also expansion.......(this is the site of Barkerville and was the key claim in the Cariboo GR.Skookum1 (talk) 13:48, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Canada outline coverage

Copied from my talk page....Moxy (talk) 18:34, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

The coverage of Canada by outlines has been growing....but...still lots missing:

Outline of Canada

The following two recent additions need attention by someone interested in and familiar with Canada. Would you mind taking a look at them and fill in or clean up what you can?


It's not just outlines that we should be interested in filling out:
-- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 00:04, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Outline of Canada

Portal: Canada

Book: Canada

Index of Canada-related articles

wikivoyage: Canada

Canada

Nice list, 65. By the way, the indexes and books are easy to derive from completed outlines. Create the outlines, the rest is easy. The Transhumanist 04:12, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Indexes contain more article links that outlines, so that seems backwards. You make the index first, then write an outline, then distill a book from that ... -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 11:31, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Added three major cities to each of the above (if Halifax and Quebec City are major, then so are these). There may be others. Can there be some elaboration on the separate Ottawa and Ottawa-Gatineau entries? Is there a suggestion that there should be articles for both Ottawa and Ottawa-Gatineau, or that the articles should be named either Ottawa or Ottawa-Gatineau? Hwy43 (talk) 04:37, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Well, it'd be either "Ottawa" or "Ottawa-Gatineau" (and "Ottawa-Hull" would redirect to that one); Halifax and Quebec City are major in a historical context. I supposed Winnipeg as well. Edmonton... if we add that, then we'd add all provincial/territorial capitals, wouldn't we? Hamilton... I'm not sure I'd add that, otherwise, we'd be adding Windsor, Laval, Saint John, Sydney, Prince Rupert... -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 11:26, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
  • For Ottawa and Ottawa-Gatineau, I've added " or " between each instance so that is now more clear per your explanation. By suggesting the three additions above, it was not my intent to suggest adding all provincial/territorial capitals and the numerous others you listed and subsequently added. What was not clear was how the originals were considered "major" and not these three as well. The three suggested are all larger than Quebec City and Halifax, while Edmonton has a significantly larger CMA than both the Quebec City and Halifax CMAs, and further while the Winnipeg and Hamilton CMAs are both significantly larger than the Halifax CMA and nearly the same size as the Quebec City CMA. Your original list, plus the three additional ones I added, are a sufficient 10 "major" cities at this stage. Once done, if ever done, I could see expanding the efforts to a next set of cities, but not places like Prince Rupert (population 12,508) and Churchill (population a lowly 813). Hwy43 (talk) 05:14, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Size isn't the only thing though. Churchill is a world known destination, Prince Rupert is the end of the railway, and transport-important. Windsor is the automotive heart of Canada. Other ones to consider would be Gander (transport hub: trans-Atlantic route stopover), Annapolis/Port-Royal, L'Anse-aux-morts (L'Anse Amour/"Vinland"), Tadoussac, Louisbourg -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 23:22, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

major POV/COI/ADVERT/UNREF on oil industry history article

Found it via a link on the "oil sands" article (Athabasca oil sands as currently titled), and struck by the complete absence of politics, other than some negative stuff towards government (in unreferenced claims...). Lots of original research, reads like pitch/portfolio material; tagged it, but don't have the stomach to wade in...History_of_the_petroleum_industry_in_Canada_(oil_sands_and_heavy_oil).Skookum1 (talk) 15:33, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

I have mentioned this before (2010) - The whole series of articles 1. Early history 2. Story of natural gas 3. Oil sands and heavy oil 4. The frontiers 5. Gas liquids are all for the most part written by Peter McKenzie-Brown - who is a 20 year vet in public relations and publications management within the oil industry. Not good. I have tried to fix this up in 2010 and then in late 2011 but there will be a whole slue of IP's that will just rewrite - they dont revert just re-tone text.Moxy (talk) 17:28, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
I have read the articles -- they are well written and very well researched, The author clearly knows the topic in depth--exactly the editor Wikipedia depends upon. I see no "conflict of interest" -- no one pays him to write for Wikipedia (he is self-employed and writes for numerous magazines and has written several well-received books including a major book on the The Great Oil Age : The Petroleum Industry in Canada that is cited by experts.) Skookum1 admits that he says nothing about the political issues where most of the POV is located. That's a positive. No one seems to have identified any specific POV in the articles in question. Vague allegations are verging on BLP violations here. Rjensen (talk) 18:05, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
They are good - the only problem I see is lack of the politics of the industry. But do agree with your point that may be good. The main problem I see and tried to confront was the lack of references like at History of the petroleum industry in Canada (natural gas liquids). Moxy (talk) 18:19, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
The lack of coverage of the politics and controversies around the industry is what makes this article POV....Skookum1 (talk) 05:24, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

CFS on Category:Mountains and ski resorts in the Okanagan

I just started a CFS for splitting this into "mountains of" and "ski areas and resorts in" Uncertain about :of/in" on the mountains cat, but the split needs doing; WikiProject Okanagan has adopted Category:Okanagan is a recognizable usage, like other geographic regions in BC they're more usalbe and relevant than the RDs or Forest Districts or MoE/Parks or Tourism regions, but also hard to cite, admittedly; other than by common sense.Skookum1 (talk) 08:59, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Just to further note re someone's proposal that mountains be classified/categorized by mountain range, that's already the case......Skookum1 (talk) 09:12, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Québec/Neuville Airport

Would like some neutral editors to help at Talk:Québec/Neuville Airport, especially French speaking. There has been opposition to the airport and there has been edits made to the article both against and in favour. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 00:38, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Sorry to barge in with this cross-wiki dispute. After Jstrob (talk · contribs) and vienneauluc (talk · contribs) fought here on Québec/Neuville Airport last week, they moved their spat to the French version of this article, Aéroport de Neuville. Following a similar pattern than the one shown in the English version history, the WP:3RR rule failed to calm down the dispute. But, contrary to what happened on en: the page attracted attention of other Quebec editors and has been put on full protection for three days, starting February 13.
As an experienced Quebec-based editor, thus far uninvolved with the dispute, I moved in to the talk page and proposed a 1,700-word version of the article, fully sourced, adopting a strict neutral point of view and featuring more reliable material (over 45 sources, mostly from news stories about the dispute). Jstrob stated quite forcefully that he disagreed with what he called substantive issues in my version, and there was a proposal to translate the English article to French. After reading it, I immediately pointed out that it failed mimimal fr: standards on neutrality and sourcing and added the {{multiple issues}} banner here. As a strong adherent of the {{cite}} templates, I added that one to the lot.
Right now, the new version is being combed by fr:Utilisateur:Racconish (also active here: Racconish (talk · contribs)), an experienced mediator, used with Israel-Palestine articles on fr:. Four issues are discussed and resolved one by one. One issue has been resolved so far. I have prepared a draft version of the current version of the proposed replacement into Englsh and I keep it current off-line. I'll be happy to share it with the en: community after the issues raised by Jstrob (talk · contribs) are mediated. Sorry for the ruckus. Bouchecl (talk) 02:30, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
Bouchecl, Racconish and VienneauLuc (a friend of that airport promoters) seem to be related and their vision is absolutely not neutral. They started an infinite discussion where they don't listen to anything I say and just hope that I will give up and let them write whatever they want. I think here in english Wikpedia, the version written by CambridgeBayweather is just perfect and should stay the same. Bouchecl version is way too long for such a small anonymous airport only know for the controversy it created and still continue.--Jstrob (talk) 20:58, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
Wow! Bouchecl just put HIS french version online without any agreement. Please someone revert. He even put some defamatory sayings about the neuville citizen in the article.--24.226.173.161 (talk) 23:36, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
Debate on frwiki has ended. fr:Utilisateur:Jstrob was blocked for 7 days for POV-pushing and WP:POINT (in fact, he was blocked not by one but by two administrators). My expanded version of the article, updated to this version is ready (English translation sandboxed here). Awaiting feedback before moving it. Bouchecl (talk) 00:30, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
No user Bouchecl will not wait for feedback if your feddback is against his POV. He will ask his friends to block you and then he will publish whatever he wants without any debate... Or maybe that only works on fr:wikipedia... I hope en:wikipedia will not publish the version of these POV pushers.They manipulated the facts by changing what the sources were really saying to make it more flatering to the promoters. Luc VienneauLuc who asked his friend Bouchecl to write that article is a friend of the promoters who tried to erase his articles on the net about anti-airport-opponant propaganda (but they are still in google cache here) and he even erased his facebook account. Probably he doesn't want the wikipedia community to know who he's friend with. I was not contributing to any article when they blocked me. I was discussing an article. How can they block me for POV pushing when discussing an article? I was polite so they can't block me for personnal attack and such. I was asking Bouchecl to include some info I was taking from very notorious sources and I wanted him stop changing the words he was sourcing from some articles to suit his POV. As soon as they blcok me he was publishing his POV pushing article on fr:wikipedia. This is awful! Those should ne all blocked now: fr:Utilisateur:Bouchecl, fr:Utilisateur:VienneauLuc, fr:Utilisateur:Starus, fr:Utilisateur:Raconnish
--Jstrob (talk) 02:27, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
As indicated here, I support Bouchecl's proposition : much more neutral basis for discussion and improvement. I advise Jstrob to read WP:PSCOI and to try to contribute in a calmer and more constructive manner, reflecting on the reasons of his 7 days block on the French wiki. Cheers, — Racconish Tk 23:14, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
The new version of Québec/Neuville Airport (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) is now live. I do agree with Racconish (talk · contribs) that this version is perfectible and constructive editing is indeed welcome. However, reverting to the previous flawed version is not acceptable. Thanks for your patience. Regards. Bouchecl (talk) 00:36, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Louisbourg

Louisbourg has a strange note on it, For the history prior to 1757 see the French wikipedia article ; considering that many readers of Wikipedia are not Canadian and will therefore not likely know French, and I haven't seen this kind of note on other articles, this is quite odd. -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 23:24, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Two solitudes indeed. There is no question fr:Louisbourg is rock solid until 1757. The guy who wrote it, fr:Utilisateur:AYE R also wrote most of the mammoth-sized fr:Histoire de la marine française (809K, 700 footnotes). But Louisbourg (community) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) has stuff you won't find in frwiki, like what happened to the place in the last 250 years or so. :) Bouchecl (talk) 01:21, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
I've removed that. By all means, the appropriate content from fr: should be translated and added here, but it is never appropriate on Wikipedia to direct readers to another language Wikipedia in lieu of English content — because as noted, readers of en: don't necessarily have the language skills necessary to get anything useful out of fr:. That, for the record, goes both for situations like this, where the link to fr: is being used as a substitute for expanded content, and for situations where a link to an article on fr: is used as an outright replacement for an article on en:, such as a film from Quebec crosslinking to an actor's biography on fr: instead of somebody taking the time and effort to write an article about that actor in English. Links to other language Wikipedias should exist only in the interlangs section at the end of the article, resulting in their appearing in the lefthand navigation menu, and are never to be inserted directly into body text as substitutes for English content. There's already a maintenance template at the top of the page advising that additional content is available to be translated from fr: anyway. Bearcat (talk) 18:42, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
I completely agree. The same policy on cross-wiki links has been in place on fr: for a long time by the way. The comment on top just made me smile. Regards. Bouchecl (talk) 19:24, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
fr.wiki has a special interlanguage link template for articles that don't exist in French, which tests for the existence of the article in French, and if it doesn't exist, display language icons for articles in other languages, when used as inline text link. -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 00:20, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
The equivalent template exists on this wiki: {{Link-interwiki}} (but is used in less than 500 pages). Bouchecl (talk) 00:31, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Office of religious freedom

So were do we start....from here i guess.Moxy (talk) 04:16, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

POV minefield in the making......one comment, I'd be very wary of starting an article based on a government press release; which of course has to be a cite but bearing in mind that anything that comes from the government is POV by nature and by design.....Wikipedia should not be built on regurgitation of government press releases.Skookum1 (talk) 04:25, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
I actually meant to link to there home page - for basic info. Crying wolf on POV already is a bit much - nothing has been written - need to tone down this aspect of your posts a bit.Moxy (talk) 04:35, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
I'm very wary, and with good reason, of government pages being used as political propaganda; and it's a given that our news media also regurgitates govt and police/military press releases with some predictability and very little in the way of air reporting. This page shouldn't be a stump based around a foundation of only one viewpoint; as is the case with the "x policies of the Harper government" articles which have been allowed to stand and remain unbalanced because of the pre-dictated agenda; all should have been "x policies of the Government of Canada", for example. This one is in its inception, yes, but not only that one source should be used about it; unless all independent commentary is dismissable as op-ed, which no doubt it will be. About POV, I'm just saying that this one is likely to see a lot of IP edits and SPAs and such and is a controversial office to begin with, and must be watched closely. And not allowed to be a SOAP piece; not least because it's an electoral campaign announcement as much as anything else....(like everything in the state o permanent campaign that this country finds itself in now).Skookum1 (talk) 04:46, 20 February 2013 (UTC).
this analysis by Niagara At Large of what we're faced with in the way of WP:Unreliable sources and WP:POV sources sums up the situation we're faced with re such content: "The Harper government values indoctrination more than previous Canadian governments. It engages 1,500 “communications” workers in its ministries, offices, and departments, to “massage” messages and to hide and falsify scientific and economic realities." This is not the only such analysis/reporting on the manipulation of media (and especially online UGC media like Wikipedia is) and there's so much of it, it can't be dismissed as "fringe"....calling it fringe is in fact one of the tactics used to silence dissenting views. So fine, a basic outline article on this "Office of Religious Freedom" can be kept from being POV; but the more government content vs other content there is is the only way to keep it from being a p.r. soapbox for this office; which by its existence is designed to be a POV soapbox; my one POV comment here about it is "gee I wonder if the Mennonite Brethren's newspaper is gonna take part" (you know, the ones that have the targeted tax audit against them for advocating "political" policies, like human rights, environment, social issues etc....). More parroted content from offices of the Harper government (tm) in Wikipedia is building a POV foundation for what amounts to political advertising; and any article started based on criticism of the Harper government will be denounced as POV from its inception; the playing field is not level....Skookum1 (talk) 04:55, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
Instead of these walls of text that rant about your views - edit the problems directly - as you normally do. Would love your help on the article when it appears - but rants of this nature is not productive.Moxy (talk) 04:58, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
Nor is using the word "rant" about a very substantial caveat with plain facts and common sense.Skookum1 (talk) 05:03, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

There's been so much written about the Office, and obviously a government press release is POV. Of course, the offical site should be linked to, but under no circumstances used as a source. And Skookum, so-called "common sense" is always POV—and a ridiculous fiction. Curly Turkey (gobble) 05:06, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

It's NOT a ridiculous fiction that this government has an orchestrated campaign of media interloping and a massive staff for "communications" meant to "massage the message", and control it; I've seen rank evidence of here on Wikipedia for a long time; POV omissions e.g. re electoral fraud and more, and evidence of partisan editing masquerading under the guise of wiki policies/wikilawyering........"common sense" when it's about facts is not POV, it's reality; pardon me for my lack of innocence and gullibility.Skookum1 (talk) 05:12, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
Skookum, there are a million and one ways of including criticism of the government while maintaining POV. Cite a source, and then phrase it "According to XXX ...". It's really not hard. Screeds are neither "common sense" (a fiction, I maintain, and a ridiculous one), nor NPOV. Wikipeida is neither a newspaper, nor a blog, and shouldn't be written like one.
Now track down some sources and fill up Canada's Office of Religious Freedom. There's already a "Criticism" section. Just make sure the non-criticism sections get their due weight, as well. Curly Turkey (gobble) 05:33, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
I've decided, as of last night, to recuse myself from Harper-related political articles and refrain from bothering with the war for truth and true impartiality (not the pretense of it). I "came back in" because of the troll-damage to Idle No More and Theresa Spence (which still has issues but remediation is underway) and now that those have been addressed the frustrations of holding my tongue and "talking nice" when "nice" is scarcely the term for the inundation of newspeak and deflection-by-wikiquette in dealing with the barrage of spin is not easy, nor can I conscionably pander to an agenda which demands that truth be stripped of its relevance, or blocked because it causes POV conclusions. I'll keep myself to geographic and historical articles and working on int'l ones when I do have time; I'll cull my watchlist so I don't have these things come up, it's just not worth the bother or the bloodpressure or the SoFixIt comebacks; I'm not paid for this, it's too much grief and too much wiki-obstinacy and confused agendas and contradictory rules; to me the political area of Canadian wikipedia has become a Tory plaything, and yes that's POV but it's true across Canadian media (you know, the so-called "reliable sources").....So I'll de-watchlist as much as I can remember to and am done with it; at least Idle No More was rescued from the hostile spin-garbage that nobody else seemed to give a damn about until I pointed it out.Skookum1 (talk) 08:23, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Blocked for POV-pushing on fr:wikipedia on a discussion page.

Hi,

I was block for POV pushing on a discussion page on fr:wikipedia. But I saw in the rules that POV pushing is not applicable to discussion page. The subject is controversial airport and some contributors are pushing the pro-aviation POV. I was not POV-pusing just trying to add info backed by sources about the controversy of that airport. I was polite even if the discussion was strong. The one who blocked me is a pro-aviation as he said on his user page. As soon as they blocked me, the pro-aviation put their version with a lot of erroneous infornations flattering to the pro-aviation position.

Is there anything someone on en:wikipedia can do for this kind of situation? Sorry for the trouble. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.226.173.161 (talk) 17:27, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

I'll get shot at for saying so, but that kind of thing definitely goes on in English wikipedia in a host of areas, politics especially but also commercial/technical or anything corporate or professional; those pushing the one POV will claim that anyone who points that out and is POV and will not be listened to, or ultimately censured if they talk back too strongly. This is why many people left and joined Wikimedia Review; and why I left for two years after being unjustly blocked allegedly for my behaviour in the course or arguing about a certain group of political articles. Oops I just broke another rule now LOL just by shooting my mouth off, so will desist. I wish you luck finding help here, you may find the same team of aviation people have members working on the corresponding article here. No doubt, in fact.....Skookum1 (talk) 17:42, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for sharing your experience. I still think it must be worst at french wikipedia cause there seems to be fewer active administrators. It looks like they decided to take control over wikipedia. I tried to vote against someone applying to get more power (he was mediator but I did like him) and they removed my vote saying I was on wikipedia for less than 3 month, but I was registered for more than 2 years (they had to put it back when I pointed that out)! I will take a look at wikimedia review. Haven't hear about that before. I think that for some controversial subjects every human being has his own point of view and that influence the way he will want to write an article. Even by genuinely trying to be neutral. Some people will say it and other will try to hide it.--24.226.173.161 (talk) 21:00, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
There is nothing we can do from en as each project is managed independently from the others. Resolute 21:10, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Merge proposal, tentative....

Said what I had to say here re merging Environmental issues in Canada with Environmental policies of the Harper government, the only stephen harper-related item left on my watchlist as just winnowed, because the other article came up next-door in my watchlist and they really are the same subject, the former written from one POV, the other very much a part, wittingly or unwittingly, of the branding campaign where the usual term "Government of Canada" is substituted with "Harper government" and the article is all conducted by his agenda and only formed of reactions to it; some attempt at POV by intervening editors have been made, but the foundation and pretext of the article set out the agenda and what's happened since is only reactive; a less-one-government focussed History of environmental policies and issues in Canada seems far more appropriate.....Skookum1 (talk) 08:59, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Ships, RCN

There's a notice at WT:MILHIST and WT:SHIPS about CF/RCN ship categories -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 05:50, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Alannah Myles tried to donate an image for her article.....

I'm in touch with her regularly via her FB pages......she complained today, with exasperation, that a professional image of her by Rob Doda that she tried to donate was challenged for deletion, and like many laymen she was faced with the many conundrums and obscure/technical language for licensing it; her intent is to make it public domain or fair use, whatever. It's a great image; its filename was 90_Rob_Doda_Retouch_Hi_Res_File.jpg and as you can see from her article's History it went through various tries but finally she gave up; she just replied to me and is sending me the image via email, for me to try to upload and license it properly. I've been challenged for my own donated photos, as well as those from my father's collection, somehow managed to survive that; but for ordinary people wanting to contribute to wikipedia it's got to be made easier, that's for certain. Well, she's not ordinary, she's extraordinary and a great Canadian musical figure/performer.....will someone help me with this please?Skookum1 (talk) 06:17, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

I'd like to also suggest that some fast-tracking and assistance be there for celebs and other artists/sports figures to donate pics for their pages, instead of facing them with implacable wiki-isms and sundry complications; I know of others who would probably gladly donate pictures for their articles.....but don't want to fuss with the formalities, which are getting more and more complicated IMO.Skookum1 (talk) 06:20, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
It should go to commons with an OTRS pending tag. It should last 30 days to wait for the email of the photographer/copyright holder. Have them email the file name and a licence type. I used to have a BLP transit file over there for storage and over-writes but someone deleted it. I will upload another one. --Canoe1967 (talk) 06:36, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
K thanks.Skookum1 (talk) 07:41, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
I just tried to re-add it, but got "There was another file already on the site with the same content, but it was deleted.", though the second, more recent one, she sent me (the other is when she was younger and is a "star" photo, very much so....so what do I do now? Even changing the filename probably won't work; I can email it to you directly, the images were sent to me by her manager, can just forward that email whole of course.Skookum1 (talk) 07:53, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
Aaargh trying filling out the form for uploading the second image, said I needed a license tag; but this page is as confusing as ever about what to use.....Skookum1 (talk) 08:07, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Wait a sec here - your saying that the horrible image File:2 CROP Rob Doda (Med) Blonde B&W.jpg is an image that Alannah Myles actually wants here and is donating? We sure about this?Moxy (talk) 08:18, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

LOL no that's not the one.....email me Moxy, I'll send them to you. One's hot lolSkookum1 (talk) 08:33, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
the one you linked I don't think is so bad, but doesn't suit her rock'n'roll diva image no doubt; that's such early 80's hair it's a real blast from the past...companies selling perm products in those years must have made a killing....Skookum1 (talk) 08:35, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
To replace my cat image just click the 'Upload new version' below the file history thumbnail section at the commons page and enter a reason for the change. I use http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Commonist and not the default upload wizard. It doesn't need any inputs to upload. I just add licences etc. after upload.--Canoe1967 (talk) 16:20, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Moxy, Canoe & Skookum for your help. Moxy, as if it were at all possible, you have make it even more difficult to understand this Wiki process by describing the photo uploads in highly unprofessional jargon that does not befit a public forum where facts matter and opinions don't!!! To aid in clarifying the matter of what stays and what goes am I now to understand that "The horrible image is the same image as the one with the 80's hair"???? File:2 CROP Rob Doda (Med) Blonde B&W.jpg Was uploaded by mistake, making it next to impossible to delete without 29 steps, the degree in copyrite law required to delete it or the humiliation of your rude comments! Take your pick. Alannah Myles. Avatarecord inc (talk) 02:24, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

No problem with the rant. The photo was taken by Rob Doda. He will need to provide permission for our use of it here. If you wish to avoid all this wikidrama, feel free to email me at Special:EmailUser.--Canoe1967 (talk) 02:36, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
Just forwarded you, I guess it's you, the pics and letter from her manager, whose email it's from; he can get the appropriate letter from Rob Doda....some way to expedite celebrity/sports figure donations of their folio items that they're OK with making public domain would be good to have......Skookum1 (talk) 03:31, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

NB Ms Myles may read this section, as I sent her the link; I suggest we break from regular talkboard practice and delete those comments about that pic, and what I said too......Mr Doda may read them, too.....Skookum1 (talk) 03:32, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

PS Skookum1 if you see Alannah tell her - Earl Johnson says hi.Moxy (talk) 23:40, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
She's in, I think, Ste Catherine's....I'm in Ko Samui, we won't meet for a long time, if ever ;-).Skookum1 (talk) 04:53, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

John Tod (fur trader) needed plus hatnote on John Tod

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL Could probably use an article as well. My family were fur trappers and he used to pay big bucks for live ones for his game farm.--Canoe1967 (talk) 07:48, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
my uncle Alfred Cleven was Chief Factor of the HBC for many years; ultimately should have a bio, but I already overstepped COI by making one on my grandfather Endre Johannes Cleven....but somebody had to ;-). For a while now List of Chief Factor of the Hudson's Bay Company has been needed, jes' sayin'.Skookum1 (talk) 07:53, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
A friend of mine is a decendant of Peter Fidler (explorer) and his grandfather left him one of those rare HBC shotguns. Once we get it across the border I hope to take some pictures of it. We also plan to drive out to Elk Point and take some pictures of the statue some day. I think Mr. Fidler actually trained McKenzie and Thompson before they paddled all over Canada.--Canoe1967 (talk) 16:27, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
I think there's a WikiProject "fur trade", not sure what it's called; an HBC/NWC subgroup might be a good idea....I have a friend, not on Wikipedia, who has found all (or most) of the descendants of people who were on staff at Fort Langley, and has all kinds of interesting stuff on them. www.childrenoffortlangley.ca I think her site is, I'll check and come back. Lots of explorer and trader bios are yet to be done at all....a key part of Canadian history to be sure...Skookum1 (talk) 03:29, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
Did you know.. that Peter Fidler made the first recorded ascent in the Canadian Rockies when he climbed Thunder Mountain in 1792? Livingstone Range (Canada) The Interior (Talk) 22:31, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Yes, his decendants tell me he had done a lot of stuff that isn't in his article. There is a book on him they should buy so we can expand the article.--Canoe1967 (talk) 19:29, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Problematic "ski area" article

Bella_Coola_(ski_area) was just created, which I noted when it showed up on the Templates {{Ski areas and resorts in British Columbia}}......aside from having some bad geography (the Cascade Mountains in Canadian usage end at the Fraser, despite an older tradition of using them for the Coast Mountains as well), my problem is that this isn't really a ski area but more an advert for a giving company; should it just be retitled to the company name and deal with as a business article? Otherwise should this notion be used also for the dozens of other heli and snowcat operations about the province?Skookum1 (talk) 09:23, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, I don't think there should be a 'Bella Coola (ski area)' article. Anything to do with skiiing in that area can be added to the Bella Coola area. As for renaming to the business name ... does that business deserve its own article? I'm not that familiar with what would make it notable enough for that. Wikidsoup [talk] 17:45, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
I had wondered about a [List of heli-skiing companies in British Columbia]] but that's too much like a directory......heliskiing and sno-cat based skiing are an important part of the tourism sector. There are other heli-skiing articles I think, though some are notable because of their (ahem) accident history I guess.....in general ski area articles are tourism-oriented and so full of obviously press copy, if rephrased to avoid COPYVIO for the most part...but it's almost like they belong more in WikiVoyage......So far nobody from {{tl:Ski}} where I also posted this notice (asking for replies here if any) as to how this is being handled by that group, if at all. This article should probably get deleted then.....or simply sent over to wikivoyage; some regional sub articles on Winter sports in the Coast Mountains and so on by region/range might work to cover all aspects of skiing, boarding and related actitivities? But is that again just a directory waiting to happen?Skookum1 (talk) 04:58, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Alberta's Rockies vs. Canadian Rockies

The former article is newly-created and seems to be one of the main human-geography subdivisions of Alberta, as seen on the map on that page. The title is confusing though as this is some kind of governmental region-brand and not a geography article as such, though contains lots of same.....not sure if these are Alberta tourism regions or what; what subdivisions are used for Alberta's categories anyway? This edit put me onto this.....(note edit comments). There's a series of equivalent region terms in BC, most of them range.......as far as historic regions go, East Kootenay/Elk Valley, Columbia Valley, Big Bend Country and Robson Valley are the BC co-respondents, up as far as east of PG anyways; north of that it's all geographic units e.g. Muskwa Ranges, Kechika Ranges.Skookum1 (talk) 05:30, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Webcite

For those of you are not already familiar with it, I want to plug Webcite (with which I have no association whatsover - I just think it's a great resource). It is a fantastic tool that we should all be using more often when we are adding web-based references to articles.

Archiving a web-based source using Webcite (or any similar site that offers a similar service) solves a number of problems. First, it preserves the source so we don't end up with deadlinks, as so often happens over the course of time. Second, it helps avoids problems associated with content on websites being revised over time (sometimes subtly), such that later Wikipedia readers see something different at the source than what the citing contributor saw.

Citation templates such as {{Cite web}} and {{Cite news}} all have "archiveurl" and "archivedate" fields for the link and date associated with an archived copy, and as most of you know this is easily done through your tool bar.

Webcite is crowdfunding so as to raise the money necessary to continue offering this service beyond 2013. If you are able to give, or are interested in finding out more, their fundraising site is here. --Skeezix1000 (talk) 14:33, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

I think this was brought up at the Village Pump as well and they was talk about getting funding from WMF. How does it differ from the Wayback Machine or are they duplicating a service?--Canoe1967 (talk) 17:33, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
Webcite archives on demand; although you can submit an URL to the Internet Archive for archiving, you cannot predict when the archiving will be done and made available to the public. isaacl (talk) 13:56, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
Isaacl is correct. Webcite archives within seconds, so you can do it as you prepare references for an article. Extremely helpful. Skeezix1000 (talk) 14:02, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Big White Ski Resort

We have a problem at Big White Ski Resort an editor is using the page for advertising and not one source for the info. I have reverted the addtions 2 time and statred a conversation on the users page but to no avail. Can I get a few others to look at the huge additions with no refs that look like a copy and paste job. Moxy (talk) 21:47, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

It's someone from the resort, I'm pretty sure. I (sort of) cleaned up the same stuff a while ago. Someone should go say hi (I nominate Moxy!). The Interior (Talk) 21:51, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
It's definitely someone from the resort. Look in the article history at how a new user named BigWhiteSkiResort made three big edits, then got blocked, then new user LooseMoose63 started making big edits again 14 minutes later. Wikidsoup [talk] 22:09, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
About stuff like that, suggest a template be come up with to refer such users to wikitravel.org and wikivoyage.org.....Skookum1 (talk) 04:51, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
Used to have similar problems with Whistler, and also with the Okanagan wine marketing people......(damn that was a battle, fighting the false geography in their p.r. materials, which get used as cites, as if true....).......many town pages are written as if tourist brochures, Vancouver's has an ongoing battle with that about palm trees LOL....wikitravel and wikivoyage are where such ad-related contributors should be referred to, and some kind of template advising tourism-promotional editors what's allowed and what isn't could be developed.Skookum1 (talk) 05:03, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
Should we put Template:Travel guide on it if they don't behave?--Canoe1967 (talk) 19:32, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
Good idea :) Wikidsoup [talk] 21:55, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Not sure what to make of substantial edit by a SPA; was all the old material salvaged and was what is new POV or COI or COPYVIO; seem clearly COI at least.....as always ski resort people try and write tourism articles, LooseMoose should be sent to WikiTravel maybe?Skookum1 (talk) 04:03, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

LooseMoose63 is at it again. How do I make a request to have the user blocked? I am unfamiliar with the process. Wikidsoup [talk] 04:06, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Oh, what a surprise [sarcasm/], IP 209.97.195.205 made the same edits as LooseMoose63, and guess where that IP is located? Near Kelowna, which is right near Big White. Wikidsoup [talk] 04:10, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Can someone please advise me on how to follow up on this problem? Another anonymous IP that is surely the same user just keeps putting back the content. Should I seek a semi-protect on this article or what? Wikidsoup [talk] 00:59, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Further evidence: some of the wording the user(s) keep adding is very similar to a Big White brochure (which i can't link to because the bigwhite.com domain is on wikipedia's blacklist) Wikidsoup [talk] 01:05, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Hard not to laugh at that....how many other corporate websites are similarly blacklisted? And in this case, why??Skookum1 (talk) 04:24, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
User:CambridgeBayWeather has placed a semi-protect on the article (until Mar 10).Skookum1 (talk) 04:25, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
Some kind of outreach to tourism industry and BC Tourism should be made about this kind of thing, and encouraging them to use the other wiki services instead of viewing Wikipedia as an advertising/marketing site........Skookum1 (talk) 04:26, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, that's a good idea. Are those other wiki services very popular? Wikidsoup [talk] 09:06, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
Have no idea what their usage stats are; Wikivoyage seems to be a newer, better, WikiTravel, much of the copy from the latter is now on the former....far busier than WikiNews, that's for sure; but once the tourism industry clues into its existence it could well become among the most-read travel sites.....Skookum1 (talk) 10:50, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
Here's Big White's Wikivoyage article FYI.Skookum1 (talk) 10:53, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
This is the WikiTravel article, gonna have to ask at the respective projects what the qualitative differences, if any, are and how to address them; it may be that WikiVoyage will supplant WikiTravel for whatever reason/strategy....Skookum1 (talk) 10:55, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Weirdness on WikiTravel....Iv'e been trying to log in/register, it takes it then says next page I'm not logged in; and "your edit has been identified as harmful and has been blocked"....tried to take it to "Report a Problem" and get the same result there. WTF?Skookum1 (talk) 11:12, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Oh....this is why. Very interesting.Skookum1 (talk) 15:22, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

1924-25 Canadiens logo.png

file:1924-25 Canadiens logo.png has been nominated for speedy deletion -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 04:20, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Canadian Photographs workshop in London

"Winter scene in Miles Canyon, No. 1102", E.J. Hamacher. (White Horse, Yukon, 1902)

...okay, I can't imagine there's actually many people in London (the English one, not Ontario) reading this regularly, but you never know!

I've recently been working on a project at the British Library to digitise several thousand Canadian photographs from 1895-1925; these are now sitting on a server awaiting a transfer to Commons, which I expect will be completed by mid-April.

Before we can do this, though, we need to make sure they're all prepared, and to do this we're hosting a public workshop on 18 March - details are here. The goal will be to get the images all cropped and sorted, and check that they do indeed show what our catalogue claims they are. If anyone will be in the area, we'd love to see you there - let me know! Andrew Gray (talk) 22:08, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your efforts. I don't think cropping or rotating are all that crucial before uploading. Commons users can help with both of these if you run short on volunteers. They have a bot over there that does rotations and crops can be done before use in articles by those that wish to use them. If you don't get them all cropped and rotated they could be categorized and handled by bots en masse I would think. Category:BL Rot90, Rot180, Rot270 and BL crop, type thing. Once they are all done we can delete the cats.--Canoe1967 (talk) 17:27, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
Rotating is pretty easy; for most of these, it's an annoying skew of ~5 degrees that we're fixing as part of the crop. Not enough to stop it being useful, but enough to make it look irritating when in the article :-). Easier to do it in advance and encourage reuse that have Commons users have to fiddle around cropping, I feel... Andrew Gray (talk) 13:50, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
I see your point. I know many in commons that think their skills are the best in the world and would trust their volunteer skills better than the skills of your volunteers is all. This isn't my opinion though. If any do seem cropped to tight then they should be few and probably easy for you to provide originals on request. I made the original point in case you run short on time or volunteers is all.--Canoe1967 (talk) 15:07, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
We're planning to upload the original uncropped TIFFs in all cases, so if we do run out, there will be a backup. Andrew Gray (talk) 15:40, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Military history of Canada during World War I

Ok we have under a year left to fixup Military history of Canada during World War I - I will be starting soon my self - looking for some help. Some sources can be found at Bibliography of Canadian military history#1914 to 1945.

Side note - FA run for In Flanders Fields anyone?Moxy (talk) 16:57, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
I've had that on the back burner since reaching GA. It would need a look over by the military and poetry projects for advice on further expansion. I know I want to expand and put critical reviews of the poem into its own section. Resolute 02:41, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Plamondon dab page needed

I don't have time to make it....came across the name Simon Plamondon on an article on a WA-state native people as having married into the tribe during the days of Fort Vancouver. There's lots of entries here so when anyone feels like something mechanical to do....Skookum1 (talk) 07:53, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

That's easy to do, there's lots of All pages with titles containing Plamondon articles on Wikipedia. -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 03:56, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
My guess is that Luc Plamondon or Plamondon (Montreal Metro) is the primary topic of "Plamondon". -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 04:11, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
If you're a Montrealer, no doubt.....seems to me it should just be a surname dab Plamondon.Skookum1 (talk) 04:55, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
Luc Plamondon is not restricted to Montreal. And as Montreal is a major city with some English speaking population, the major metro station would be more prominent that the other Plamondon topics, except Luc Plamondon. AFterall, Celine Dion is a worldwide topic, and one of her songwriters would get pulled along. -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 03:10, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
Not enough to warrant primary use for Plamondon. This is Wikipedia not Celebapedia.Skookum1 (talk) 04:10, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
I'm not a Montrealer, and my first thought was Luc Plamondon too as the primary use. He's also very well known in Europe. I don't really care about what redirects to Plamondon, but I do think the "Celebapedia" comment is unhelpful. --Skeezix1000 (talk) 21:27, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

South Okanagan and North Okanagan

Both of these are common names used for regions of the Okanagan, the articles are for defunct provincial electoral districts; wondering if they should be South Okanagan (defunct electoral district) and North Okanagan (defunct electoral district) with the current page names as small dabs; in the South Okanagan case and probably in the northern there can be other entries on each, e.g. Art Gallery of the South Okanagan (which should have an article if it doesn't)......Skookum1 (talk) 05:23, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

I agree it should be a dab page - but for the reason that things like the Okanagan people and Okanagan Range are also well-known. Not sure people outside Canada would think the name is a place in Canada by default. Like Chilliwack bet most Americans and Europeans think of Chilliwack (band) not the place...again showing my age here. Moxy (talk) 05:54, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
Perhaps we could create a disambiguation page for it, because I know that when I refer to the South Okanagan, I typically mean the region (Regional District of Okanagan-Similkameen) with the same for North Okanagan (North Okanagan. Links could point to the electoral districts and regional districts, if there is a consensus. TBrandley (what's up) 23:30, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Question about quartet of articles

Hi all,

We had someone write in to us via email about the following four articles:-

I've left in brackets after each article the comments that the emailer sent to us. Unfortunately I'm not an expert on Canadian geography, so if someone who knows a bit more about it could have a look at the articles and see what needs to be done to bring them into line with Wikipedia expectations, that'd be much appreciated.

Regards,
Daniel (talk) 13:17, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Per the county website, it does appear Milford exists as a place name in Annapolis county. I am guessing as an unincorporated community, but will make no comment on the feasibility of an AfD on it, as named places generally seem to get a free pass. The complaint about Milford (Halifax), Nova Scotia seems accurate though, since the community of Milford Station is apparently closer to Truro than Halifax. Seems unlikely to be part of the HRM. The only legitimate mention of "East Milford" I can find is the "East Milford Mastodon", and it does seem that East Milford and Milford Station could be the same place. Anyone who lives further east have any thoughts? Resolute 02:55, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
There's (perhaps inaccurate) information at StatsCan, per the Standard Geographical Classification (SGC) used by the agency.
The SGC lists are known to contain some names that are not communities per se. Mindmatrix 03:13, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
So in this case, East Milford is a community in Halifax, and it is the attempt to tie it with Milford Station that is the error? Resolute 03:17, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
This is a googlesearch on the HRM's site for "Milford" - it appears that there is a Milford in the HRM, and it's a polling district. The HRM is pretty big, not quite all of Halifax County I think but close, haven't tried look for Milford on Googlemaps.....Skookum1 (talk) 05:14, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

As for the Milford in Annapolis County, the county itself recognizes such a place. It's apparently within their Municipal District 8, but from the associated maps I would say there's not much there in terms of a community. I would be inclined to redirect the article to Annapolis County, Nova Scotia. PKT(alk) 13:59, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

But regional district electoral areas for BC are also polling districts; also census areas, too, yes, though I've long maintained they should be submerged into regional district articles as not truly meaningful ways of dividing up BC for categorization purposes (somewhat of a different issue re categories...); many placenames in BC that are nothing now, e.g. ghost towns, have an article.....I guess the issue here is, is the Milford area large and does it have a particular history, rural or not? Skookum1 (talk) 14:48, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
A reader from the area wrote in saying that Milford doesn't exist in Annapolis County, and like I wrote there's no identifiable community from reading maps. Besides that, setting it to redirect is an easily-reversible action, in case some currently unknown factoid comes to light. I am setting the redirect in place. PKT(alk) 12:27, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
Don't rely on local readers to know all about their counties/regions...I can think of lots of cases in BC where local residents might not know a particular obscure locality, or even one not so obscure.....I just checked on CGNDB, search here and found this entry for Milford, Annapolis County.Skookum1 (talk) 03:37, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
Please re-read my comments. I didn't rely on a local reader - I found the placename is legitimate, but there's no community there to speak of. PKT(alk) 00:27, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

Speedy cat rename on Category:Chilcotin District

the main article title was used for a recent speedy, resulting in something awkward; I changed the title on the main article, which is now Chilcotin (region) as Chilcotin is a dab page; in the speedy renaming listing I commented on Category:Chilcotin as an option as Category:Cariboo and Category:Okanagan do not have "(region)" in them.......but didn't know what to do bc of the dab page, unless Chilcotin is recognized as the primary usage?Skookum1 (talk) 07:44, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Having some difficult, as usual, with regional district-derived categories; this one Category:Populated_places_in_the_Cariboo_Regional_District should really be Category:Populated places in the Cariboo, as some of the Cariboo, by way of example, is in the Thompson-Nicola Regional District and some is in the Squamish-Lillooet Regional District. There's a Category:Populated places in the Chilcotin as a subcat of this; again problematic because some of the Chilcotin is not in the CRD, but in the Central Coast Regional District or whatever's to the northwest of the CRD.......far better to use conventional regoin names than to classify by regional district; only member municipalities belong in a regional district article IMO: especially places e.g. Barkerville which were dead and empty (not now) when the RD was created....but "populated places" is also a problematic term, often places in BC are just placenames either where cities/towns were, or were planned....they may not be actually populated; I was going to start one on Kimsquit but it's not inhabited so far as I can tell (even Kemsquit 1 seems unpopulated from what I can find out; though once a noted place. (it's CCRD not CRD though)......anyways pondering a change to Category:Populated places in the Cariboo and yes, it's hard to cite what the Cariboo's boundaries are; largely a matter of self-definition in each community; Ashcroft and Clinton both bill themselves as gateways to the Cariboo, some in Lytton would reckon that to be the start of the Cariboo, but they are in the TNRD; sometimes Kamloops is even included....100 Mile House s in the Lillooet Land District, as is Clinton......the differing regionalization boundaries in BC are not, to me, so useful or relevant as using the historic region designations/identifications...as before I'm not in the mood for a protracted CFD on all of the "in the so and so regional district" subcategories, hut this one's a case in point whh they're not really workable or relevant.Skookum1 (talk) 08:26, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
Please see this note on Talk:Chilcotin re maybe changing "Chilcotin" to somehow not be a dab page, with the primary usage being the region? The argument could be made that the people are the primary usage globally, but .....wondering if until this is resolved maybe remove the category from the speedy CFD list?Skookum1 (talk) 07:31, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

"White" vs European Canadian on Demographics sections

I don't know who added/built all these tables, but the piping of European Canadian to "White" to me is not appropriate in the slightest; I've been removing the pipe on articles found so far, apparently there's lots.....also piping "multiracial" as "mixed....visible minority" is also not appropriate and highly misleading. I don't have time to fix them all, other than some in the GVRD ("Metro Vancouver"'s real name) also on Ashcroft's.....and also deleted all the "0 population" entries as pointless and irrelevant; on any of these, given the composition of the so-called "European" population being so ethnically diverse, it is far more appropriate to put up ethnicity tables than focus on who's "coloured" and who's not. "White" people are not homogenous like the p.c. version of reality likes to pretend. And when there's 5 people of a given group, describing them as a percentage like 0.4% is just silly.Skookum1 (talk) 07:24, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

We were talking about this not to long ago [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Canadian_Wikipedians%27_notice_board/Archive_17#Offensive_demographics_tables here].Moxy (talk) 22:05, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
LOL looks like a long read, I browsed about 20 comments, will get back to it later. My main objection is that Demographics sections often are all about this; as you know I went and added ethnicity tables for towns I could find that for; StatsCan doesn't publish them all (unless you pay for them) and the obsession with presenting visible minorities is very much a political agenda. Many smaller places have very specific ethnic histories; it matters far less how many Asians are in Bella Coola or Grand Forks vs how many Norwegians are left in the former, or how many Doukhobors still are in Grand Forks, for example; Trail and Revelstoke in my time were notably Italian, the Fraser Valley towns have huge Dutch and German and other components; and as noted, the substitution/piping of "European Canadian" into "White" is highly questionable, but then white Latin Americans, of wholly European blood, are classified as "visible minorities"......ethnic/race issues aside, demographics should cover things like income and age and so on, they're more relevant; and yes the '0' fields should all be removed. The people who assiduously mine StatsCan for only visible minority data should be doing all the age/income and employment etc...and avoid changing the StatsCan designations of groups like "multiracial" into "mixed".......why a tiny place that's mostly native doesn'st really need a table saying that there's 0.01% Sri Lankan in it, when that Sri Lankan is only one person.Skookum1 (talk) 03:43, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

Language cops

Should Office québécois de la langue française be updated to account for pastagate? It did garner international attention (especially in Italy), unlike many of the other OLF gaffes. -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 04:18, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

How about a sub-section in Political gaffe?--Canoe1967 (talk) 14:46, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
the ones there already are kinda questionable...e.g. the fuddle duddle incident.......Skookum1 (talk) 05:30, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
List of political gaffes in Canada could be very lengthy. as with fuddle duddle, though, what's a gaffe and what isn't might not all be that clear to some people. "stupid things said at the wrong time" is not the same as comments that are merely controversial.Skookum1 (talk) 05:45, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

Cariboo Chilcotin Coast

Someone had put a "significant?" tag on the Chilcotin page listing for this. It's for one of seven or eight BC Tourism regions (http://www.hellobc.com is the government site] and in fairly wide use; at times as you know I've opined about classifying parks and visitor attractions by this system (though parks actually have their own regions under BC Ministry of Environment). They really do need articles, the tourism regions I mean, though some of them are, well, kinda deliberately misnamed e.g. Kootenay Rockies which really means "Kootenays & Rockies" but in rebranding they're trying to pitch the West Kootenay as part of the Rockies (which they aren't). Can't remember the others just not, Cariboo Chilcotin Coast does crop up a lot, though; NB such articles should not be region articles exactly, they are to be about tourism items. Parallel/conflicting regionalization systems in BC governance are a broad issue, and again why I oppose using RDs to classify various things into categories.....all major BC Govt region series/systems should have articles; there's a Forest Regions and Districts of British Columbia article (I think someone has lower-capped that title lately) but in those cases e.g Kamloops Forest Region the statistics available from sources are those for the Annual Allowable Cut (AAC) and production/employment figures and the like; no need for categories there I think unless there turned out to be enough articles on mills in a certain area to warrant it, or some controversy attached to forestry in that region. Tourism regions are current, though; I se that WikiVoyage has derived its own region system for BC, I don't recall its divisions here. Unlike other provinces BC does not have a "fixed" set of governmental regions, each jurisdiction of government has their own boundaries for regions....the tourism region articles seem necessary but ....Skookum1 (talk) 03:56, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Or we make all their names as redirects to Tourism British Columbia and an appropriate section there?Skookum1 (talk) 04:01, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Norwegians#Canada and Norwegian Canadian#Organized immigration

These pages contain some unusual material, also uncited, but also lack full coverage because BC and Maritime/Newfoundland stories are missing; an old tub thump for me on any history/demographics article, but this applies to other articles as well no doubt; the Norwegians article has some English flaws, probably authored in Norway and needs lots of work....I've made a few comments on both articles' talkpage s.Skookum1 (talk) 05:34, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Acadia (disambiguation)

to my surprise, there's nothing in "Places" about Canadian Acadia exactly; maybe the lede line can be amended to describe Acadia, in its current and historical meanings; there's also Acadie_(disambiguation) but it seems to me a separate article is called for; unless there's a special section on History of New France if there is such a page, or on New France?Skookum1 (talk) 07:32, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

OK my bad, didn't realize the first word in that lede line was a link to Acadia.....LOLSkookum1 (talk) 08:10, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Louis-Hippolyte Lafontaine

Is there any chance that anyone with more writing skill than me could work on Louis-Hippolyte Lafontaine's article? There's virtually nothing as to information on what he is most known for (politics), with the article mostly being of his posthumous honours and family... (and the article is linked from On this day... today)– Connormah (talk) 12:26, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

The case of the missing incumbency symbol?

I've posed a question on Template talk:Canadian election result about the fact that the "(x)" incumbency symbol seems to have been removed from several templates during upgrades to the new standard version. Could someone please respond, on that page. Thanks. CJCurrie (talk) 01:45, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

National Contribution Month

Contribution Day in University Laval, Quebec City in February, 2012.

Sorry for my poor English!

Hello everyone,

During the month of April, in collaboration with Wikimedia Canada, we organize the National Contribution Month. Basically, these are contributive days held throughout the month of April all across the country, where local Wikipedians gather to work together on an article, either physically in a room, or via IRC. It's very simple, two Wikipedians (or more), gather in a room, a library, a café, to improve an article or a topic.

Wikimedia Canada will display banners on Wikipedia EN & FR to get more people attend, but the first step is to organise core groups in a few cities to start the movement. The aim is not only to improve articles, but also to allow local Wikipedians to meet and initiate new editors to Wikipedia.

In a nutshell, before the end of March, we are looking for Wikipedians who want to organize a Contribution Day in their cities. There are already some cities under discussion: Toronto, Brampton, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Montreal, Quebec City ... but we would like to see some also in other Canadian provinces. Are you interested? We can help you to organize one in your city.

Come talk with us, be bold, we will give you a hand. Thank you for supporting this movement. Best regards, Benoit Rochon (talk) 15:06, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

The site won't let me create an account.--Canoe1967 (talk) 21:04, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
Since many people complained about subscriptions on WMCA wiki, the organizers have decided to host this project directly on Wikipedia. So please feel free to come talk with us about the National Contribution Month. I hope we hear from you! Regards, Benoit Rochon (talk) 07:36, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Catholic sisters and nuns

We seem to be missing an article on the important subject of Catholic sisters and nuns in Canada. There is a paragraph at Nuns and some scattered articles on separate congregations. I propose to started article on Catholic sisters and nuns in Canada Rjensen (talk) 02:42, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Rob Ford

Saw that Rob Ford was in the news again, so decided to read his article here - and wow. Regardless of how embarrassing Rob Ford is to the city of Toronto and to Canada as a whole - I have to say his article is a bit much. I would agree with anyone who questions how this guy got and still has this job - but the article is way way way unbalanced, the sections Media relations, Conflict of interest and Other controversies make up 60 to 75 percent of the article.Moxy (talk) 03:19, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

not surprising, really, given the nature of that beast and the p.r. machine around him.....if the full facts were up about other politicians, plus the spinback b.s., almost any of them you'd have to question how they got the job and still have their job, or whatever newer one they've been bumped upstairs with (e.g. the current Canadian High Commissioner in London....). Sounds like a battlefield article, as non-T.O.'er I'll stay out of it ;-).Skookum1 (talk) 03:45, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
Just had look at Tom Flanagan (political scientist) which has had a lot of activity lately, of course......my main thing there is "political scientist" and not "political strategist" or "political advisor" not more appropriate; not a political scientist by training, and more of a political engineer, really, having had a partisan appointment to a university professorship (now revoked I think) doesn't make you a political scientist; but many political articles have dubious career dabs/descriptions.....Gordon Campbell is listed as teacher though he did that only a short time, like Stephen Harper and Jason Kenney he's only ever been a political activist and career politician, little else. "Political scientist" for Flanagan to me is off-base and a spinjob. But maybe he's "just visiting" (he's the one who coined that slag for Michael Ignatieff).Skookum1 (talk) 03:59, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
Well, to be honest, part of the problem here is that the guy has accomplished so little of any substance that by and large the controversies and foot-in-mouth moments and the like are really all there is to write about him most of the time. But I do agree with you that there's a very serious balance problem here; I really could have sworn that I raised a concern last year about his article getting weighed down with an overemphasis on minor stuff, but I can't seem to find it now. Substantive legal troubles should be covered here, yes; the myriad moments when stuck his foot in his mouth and got laughed at for a day or two, with no meaningful further consequences, should not be. (Like for starters, we shouldn't go anywhere near the question whether he groped Sarah Thomson's badonk or not, given the "he said this, she said that, and nobody can actually prove anything either way" nature of the whole thing.) I may not like the guy much, but we still have to use some critical filtering to decide what's worth writing about and what isn't — I suspect, frankly, that we should maybe get some uninvolved party (such as a non-Canadian who won't have too many preexisting views about the guy) to give it a once-over for WP:BLP compliance. Bearcat (talk) 23:58, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Penticton article is a mess

I just spent a while fixing stuff but there's still tons to go; someone expanded this using bumpf from Tourism BC that's all garbage.....lots was in badly composed English........lots of external links in text, and written like ad copy. The older version of this article wasn't so bad....see the history for the bunk stuff I took out. Major BC city, needs to be GA....there's a WP:WikiProject Okanagan but it doesn't seem very active....Skookum1 (talk) 09:26, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

WPOKANAGAN is new... is it dead already? -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 00:01, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
I didn't say that at all. It's just not very active other than creating templates and, in one case, a category name that had to be changed/split. It's a good idea to have regional wikiprojects or subprojects for BC, e.g. WP:WikiProject Kootenays WP:Vancouver Island etc. The Okanagan one is kinda special because of the cross-border alliance of the American Okanogan with the Canadian Okanagan. My point about the Penticton article's sloppy writing and (though I fixed a lot) complete rubbish from TourismBC being used as a cite.Skookum1 (talk) 04:03, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

St. Jerome helo escape?

Do we have an article on the Saint-Jerome helicopter prison escape? -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 23:44, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

It's covered at List of helicopter prison escapes. Paul Erik (talk)(contribs) 00:08, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
Might be a good idea to write up the prison centre de détention de Saint-Jérôme and the helicopter company Heli-Tremblant into articles -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 03:30, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Quebecor

The naming of Quebecor is under discussion, see talk:Quebecor -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 03:15, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Bud Smith <= Stuart_Douglas_Smith

Wondering about a name change for this guy, he was one of the main movers and shakers in the last years of the Social Credit era in BC, as I recall Bill Bennett's right-hand man. The article's a bit thin to start with, almost a placeholder, but also sanitized - it doesn't say, for example, what the taped telephone conversations were about, or go into the leadership race with Bill Vander Zalm and Grace McCarthy or his role as constitutional advisor to Bill Bennett (and his other ties to same). Mostly for hte moment I'm concerned about the title; in all the press coverage of him it was always Bud Smith, I don't think I ever saw him named as Stuar Smith.......or as Stuart Douglas Boland Smith, either, which is his full name. What's BLP on this, if a MOSTCOMMON name is a nickname?Skookum1 (talk) 06:04, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Normally, in such circumstances we go with the nickname (see also Bud Germa and Bush Dumville for two other examples of Canadian politicians who are better known by nicknames than they are by any of the names that their parents actually birthed them with.) But for the record, the title wasn't changed at any point; right from its original creation, the article has always existed at the "Stuart Douglas" title with the "Bud" one as a redirect — and also note that the redirect is at Bud Smith (politician); the undabbed Bud Smith is and always has been about an American baseball player. So yes, a move probably should go through — consider it done — but the article was never actually at "Bud" in the first place, so it would be a case of "move to", not "move back to". Bearcat (talk) 06:46, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
Does that mean you'll do the move? The formality of the names for such articles is a product no doubt of the sources; he wasn't Bud Smith on the ballot, though he might have been Stuart "Bud" Smith.......we've at least settled on W.A.C. Bennett instead of William Andrew Cecil Bennett, and though Boss Johnson is here as Byron, that's partly because that wasn't a personal nickname the way "Bud" was...Bill Bennett was how Miniwac was always known, but he's William Richards Bennett here ....Bud is a special case to me because he was a major figure in the later Social Credit era, and again his article is way too thin......it's hard finding sources for the '80s btw, because when Izzy Asper bought CanWest he ordered the destruction of all their hard copy files and also all their digital archives; most of that era's material is now in Special Collections or city/prov archives now....but other than the G&M, is not online.....Skookum1 (talk) 04:17, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
Just noting one case where I seem to have gotten away with including the nickname along with the full name Margaret Lally "Ma" Murray.....04:45, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
Hm, just thought it worth mentioning Joseph Martin, premier in 1900, known as Joe Martin....Fighting Joe Martin. Wondering what the papers used for him back then (he was in them a lot LOL).........again, formality vs MOSTCOMMON.Skookum1 (talk) 05:06, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
I see you've been going through candidate articles and adopting the MOSTCOMMON form e.g. Mel Couvelier (a nice man, I've met him).....another important one would be Boomer Walkem, not sure how that's listed here, I think to a full GHW "Boomer" Walkem, whatever his initials are......he was commonly just called Boomer so far as I know....Skookum1 (talk) 12:47, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
Oh yeah, it's George Anthony Walkem....in his lede I put it as "George Anthony "Boomer" Walkem" which like Ma Murray's may be the better title.....same with Byron Johnson as Byron "Boss" Johnson....he was, by the way, the highest-attained politician of Icelandic descent in Canada.Skookum1 (talk) 12:50, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Toronto Women's Bookstore

Our article on Toronto Women's Bookstore, as originally written, stated that the firebombing took place in 1985; however, most sources give the date as 1983, and I've also found at least one that says 1984. However, virtually all of these sources, regardless of which date was given, were written somewhere between one or two decades later — which is probably the source of the confusion, because people do after all have unreliable memories sometimes the farther removed they get from the incidents they're recalling.

Is there anybody who has access to a news database, who could attempt to locate contemporary news coverage of the original incident so that its exact date can be more definitively confirmed? If you have trouble locating anything, search on Henry Morgentaler as well since his clinic was the actual target of the bomb. (The mention in his Wikipedia article cites the same problematic source that the Women's Bookstore article does, however, so that article doesn't settle the question as things currently stand.) Thanks. Bearcat (talk) 17:46, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

I believe the event occurred on 29 July 1983. I searched Google News archive, and found this and this. Mindmatrix 18:00, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
Yep, thanks, that solves it. Bearcat (talk) 18:03, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

File:CFIA-ACIA heraldic emblem.jpg

Does anyone know the copyright status of works of the Canadian Heraldic Authority? -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 00:50, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Given the CFIA is a government agency, your safest bet is to assume Crown Copyright. I think it very unlikely that this image was ever exempt from copyright, and unless you can show the image was created before January 1, 1963, a fair use template should be used on that image. Resolute 22:08, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Timeline of BC Legislature Raids

I don't want to delve into fixing/expanding this article, and admit to having a COI as I was one of the principal commentors on some of the major political/alt-news blogs about all this; but there's so much missing - including the denouement of the trial and all its many questions. Some of this seems very "soaped" (washed) and there's important things missing; that Justice Dohm was the only person to see all the materials seized and "redacted" huge amounts with a black pen; that it was him who cherry-picked material used to go after Basi and Virk is already stated; what's also missing is the well-known comment by the police spokesman during the raids that "organized crime has reached to the highest levels of government" etc......and that the statement 'no elected officials are being investigated" was made after Berardino's appointment, which was also adjudged as "prosecutor shopping" as others had turned down the job, and Berardino was third choice, with close party and personal affiliations to the Dept of the A-G. Important names in the case like Brian Kieran and Patrick Kinsella are so far not present in the article. In a way both this and BC Legislature Raids are "limiting" as far as titles; a full BC Rail Scandal article has yet to be written...and would be a formidable task. NB so far the "reliable sources" from the mainstream media are all that are used on the Timeline, though they were anything but reliable during the proceedings; this is also a case where due to the MSM's close ties and editorial bias that independent news sources and political blogs have to be included as references/research material. The Erik Bornmann article is also thin on the ground and missing lots; but "he" is always around to try and delete material from that article though mostly it's watched; but there was a long battle on his article to keep it from being a totally self-serving piece of twaddle, and Mark Marissen's article likewise had similar problems. With the election imminent and with Dix's promise of a full inquiry into "what happened to BC Rail" there's more to be added to the Timeline and also more need than ever for a proper BC Rail Scandal article; I added a fair bit about it a long time ago to BC Rail as a basis.....Skookum1 (talk) 04:04, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

And there's no Dave Basi article........conspicuously absent....as likewise with Kinsella already mentioned.Skookum1 (talk) 04:06, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Discussion at French Canadian

Should we have 'Canadien Francais' there as well? It has been there for a long time, and I have reverted its removal, but, I could use more eyes than just mine. Dbrodbeck (talk) 00:15, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

"Picturing Canada" project

Hi all,

Just to let you know that over this weekend, I started the bulk-upload of the British Library's digitised images from the Canadian Copyright collection (1895-1925). It's running quite slowly just now, but I'm hopeful that we'll be able to shift it onto a faster connection!

The 250 files uploaded so far are at commons:Category:Images from the Canadian Copyright Collection at the British Library - please do have a glance and see if any are of interest. We're aiming to upload both cropped JPEGs and the full, untouched, as-scanned TIFF files. Andrew Gray (talk) 14:53, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Well done. That's a great project and many thanks to you for undertaking it. --Skeezix1000 (talk) 15:28, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
Thanks :-). If you want to have a go at categorizing some, please do give it a shot - the as-yet-unsorted images are all in commons:Category:Picturing Canada images not yet categorised. Andrew Gray (talk) 11:56, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Contribution Month in Canada starts in 5 days

Meetup in Montreal, April 6.
Mile End library

Hello everyone,

So far we have four meetups: Toronto, Brampton and 2 in Montreal. Anyone else would organize a meetup in his region? It's very simple, find a place with Wi-Fi and show up... that's all! We'll take care of the rest. I start a communication campaign on March 31 (banners on wp, Twitter, Facebook, French CBC interview, etc.) so people will certainly join a meetup if there's one in his region; we just need a core person somewhere and people will agglomerate.

The concept is very open, you can organise your meetup as you wish, and anywhere (library, café, private meet-up in your house!). In Montreal, we invite non-wikipedians in a library to come learn "how to"... that's very popular too!

If you have questions, come talk with us here, or read the FAQ (please correct my bad English on that page!)

I hope we'll have more events throughout the country! Regards, Benoit Rochon (talk) 03:22, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

GeoGratis licensing and WP

Hi all, question about gov copyright. Has anyone worked with materials under the GeoGratis license agreement before? It sounds pretty open, and I'm wondering if we can use materials under it. I'm specifically after this map. Cheers, The Interior (Talk) 18:31, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

The licence states it applies only to data, but the map page seems to indicate it is also subject to that licence. (Maps and other works are usually protected by Crown copyright.) Licence grant point 1 is consistent with CC-BY-SA used by WP. It appears that you can use the map. Mindmatrix 22:10, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
It mentions "or documentation" in its definition of "data", so hopefully the maps fall under that. I'm just wondering how the provision that the attribution should be ""© Department of Natural Resources Canada. All rights reserved" jives with CC-BY-CA. It seems they are not reserving all rights. It would be great if these maps are usable, there's 5,398 maps in the database (!!!), and, judging by the fifteen or so I checked, they all carry that same license. The Interior (Talk) 04:50, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
That license is also revokable, meaning that even if we did use the data, the government is claiming right to revoke our ability to do so in the future. I would suggest contacting them and asking for clarification, though that tends to be slow on the response time. Resolute 13:16, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
You're right. I somehow missed section 5 and 6 of the licence agreement. Because the licence term is only for one year (renewable annually), and the licence can be revoked, then these maps cannot be used. Sigh. Mindmatrix 14:08, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
If I understand the license correctly, the only case where the license can be revoked without consent of the licensee is if the licensee breaches the terms of the license. isaacl (talk) 14:34, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
Yes, it can only be revoked in case of breaches, or if the licensee (the user) actually decides to revoke it themselves for some reason. The terms for these materials look quite usable, if oddly written.--Pharos (talk) 15:33, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
That "oddly" bit better not be a dig on our glorious regent, Pharos. The Interior (Talk) 05:30, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
Perhaps, but that opens up a lot of questions. I do not believe that license is strictly compatible with either GFDL or CC, meaning it may not qualify under Wikimedia's own terms of service as "free use". A copyright expert here on Wikipedia might be a good first person to ask. Resolute 22:15, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
I can't quite see the point of the one-year automatic renewal, but this might be due to a quirk of Canadian law - it certainly seems to be effectively perpetual, and the key point is that Canada can't revoke it unless you agree or you breach the license. CC-BY doesn't allow for mutual termination, but it does allow for termination through breach (s.7 here). I'll ask around! Andrew Gray (talk) 11:42, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for your help on this, Andrew. The Interior (Talk) 04:10, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

For what it's worth, OpenStreetMap looked into this a few years back; their conclusion was that the GeoBase license was CC-BY compatible. (The GeoBase license seems functionally equivalent to the GeoGratis one). Andrew Gray (talk) 11:48, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Just like to add that the licence reads very similar to the UK Open Government Licence which is CC compatible, not that it's a guaranteed but I'd hope a pointer towards GeoGratis being compatible. NtheP (talk) 10:58, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Skookum article AfD...and an ANI against me

qwickwire has launched an ANI against me for my responses to his attacks and tone and attitude on my owntalkpage; all to do with a cite he doesn't think is valid and proceeded to lecture and scold me for "not listening" and being "attack-y"......see the "Source" section on the bottom of my talkpage. The AfD is apparently part of the same witchhunt; and seems targeted deliberately to rile me...and well, y'all know how easily I can be riled. Lots of you supported me the last time I was blocked and then encouraged me to come back to Wikipedia after my long boycott....some of you may be glad to see me leave again, like this guy said he would be glad to see happen (for calling him on his b.s.)....I submit that this AfD/PROD and the ANI and the attacks coming after me over a stupid cite on a subject the opponent knows nothing about is a really stupid way for me to wind up leaving Wikipedia again........how much time have I spent dealing with this nonsense this morning? Too much.`Skookum1 (talk) 03:29, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Um, what does this have to do with the Canada Wikiproject notice board? Singularity42 (talk) 10:19, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
I just read some of the detail. It does seem to be a persecution to have both a valued Canadian editor deleted along with a valid Canadian article.--Canoe1967 (talk) 10:51, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
[edit conflict reply to Singularity] Because the word/concept is an important part of BC history/identity/culture and is the source of a good hundred and more placenames in the province (and one or two in Quebec, as it happens). And because I have wiki-friends here, one of whom at least has responded. Is that polling? Essentially it's notice of an article that's important to BC....and thanks Canoe1967, for seeing the pointSkookum1 (talk) 10:53, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Canadian government and Canadian Forces emblems being discussed at PUF

See Wikipedia:Possibly_unfree_files/2013_March_25#File:CFIA-ACIA_heraldic_emblem.jpg where this is occurring -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 23:53, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

I think it is an issue with fair use policy. The image formats are 'public domain', IMHO. Since some were 'ripped from the net' then new ones need to be created to replace the ones from other creators. It is a strange clause in copyright law possibly involving: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:COA --Canoe1967 (talk) 00:01, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Notable?

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

You could just submit a request at WP:AFC. Then someone else could determine if the article you wrote meets the threshold of notability and doesn't violate conflict of interest, or advertising. -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 04:44, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
I lack good print sources though. WP:RX could probably help but they usually don't do searches through all their access points. I also added the online search template to this section.--Canoe1967 (talk) 04:58, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Workgroup

Just to keep everybody updated, I've started a new workgroup, Wikipedia:WikiProject LGBT studies/LGBT in Canada work group, dedicated to improving our coverage of LGBT issues and personalities in Canada. This new page is principally a subgroup of Wikipedia:WikiProject LGBT studies, not a distinct WikiProject in its own right, but I've added WikiProject Canada as a second parent as well. The group exists so that interested editors can more actively coordinate and organize coverage relating to LGBT topics in Canada, where a lot of relevant stuff has typically fallen through the cracks due to the relatively limited number of editors actively working on them. Anyone who's interested in helping out is welcome. Bearcat (talk) 00:25, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Does that sign on as {{WikiProject Canada|LGBT=yes}} on the banner? And {{WPLGBT|Canada=yes}} ? -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 03:21, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
Certainly an option, if anyone knows how to make that happen — but I don't, so I haven't pursued that as of yet. Bearcat (talk) 17:46, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
You'd need to add something like:
|tf 1={{{switchname|}}}
 |TF_1_LINK          = Wikipedia:WikiProject LGBT studies/LGBT in Canada work group
 |TF_1_NAME          = LGBT in Canada
 |TF_1_IMAGE         = filename.ext
 |TF_1_TEXT          = This page is supported by the joint [[Wikipedia:WikiProject LGBT 
studies/LGBT in Canada work group|Canadian LGBT studies workgroup]]
The image used would be the rainbow flag for {{WPCANADA}} and the Canadian flag for {{WPLGBT}} ... just enter the file link at "filename.ext" without "File:" and without square brackets or anything else. Just xyz.svg or whatever extension.
"switchname" would need to be "lgbt" for {{WPCANADA}} and "canada" for {{WPLGBT}}
Obviously, the number "tf 1" would need to be changed to whatever number is needed.
-- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 06:55, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
Well, I've made a proposal below about how I could adjust the existing Canada project banner, and if requested I guess I could also add this group to it, if someone were to tell me where to place it in the dropdown list. Also, just in general, for the past few months I've been getting together lists like that at Wikipedia:WikiProject Neopaganism/Encyclopedic articles so that interested editors have a bit easier time seeing what sort of articles can and should exist about their particular topic. It might not hurt if some of the Canadian groups did the same. I could do some myself, of course, but unfortunately I've right now still got a rather long list of such efforts in early development stages, and might not get to Canada in any way for a while. John Carter (talk) 20:44, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

WikiProject Canada banner

I have recently copied out a draft version of the United States WikiProject banner at User:John Carter/WikiProject Canada banner, which, when the appropriate input is added, could show material similar to that shown at Template:WikiProject United States/sandbox2, with the material being Canadian, not United States related, of course. I have also previously done similar with the banner for WikiProject Christianity, with it providing assessment information for all the directly related projects.

With the Christianity banner, I tried to organize it in such a way that the most broadly applicable related groups appeared earlier, and the more focused one later in the drop-down. I have a feeling doing something similar with a possible similar banner for Canada might be the best way to go with that, but am not myself quite so sure how the editors who work more frequently with the material think would be the optimum way to arrange the appearance of the related projects. My own idea, FWIW, is to maybe start with those which relate to broad "Canada" based issues first, like Canadian history, music, sports, etc., and then the various provincial/territorial groups, with the groups for individual communities listed directly underneath the province or territory in which they lay. Would such an arrangement make sense to the rest of you?

Also, because I regretably do have way to many pages watchlisted, if and when a consensus on how to proceed is arrived at, it might make sense to notify me at my user talk page so that I can proceed. I regret to say that, given the number of pages I have watchlisted, comments only a few hours hold often appear several hundred entires down, and I might overlook or not see it when and if consensus is arrived at here. However, I would be willing to try to set up the banner in that way if the rest of you gave me an idea which order to place the related WikiProjects in. John Carter (talk) 19:43, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

david suzuki's "Meet The Coywolf"

Could someone please use the newish David Suzuki documentary "Meet the Coywolf" to improve Wikipedia? We aren't allowed to watch it over on this side. Chrisrus (talk) 05:50, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Request

Earlier today, an anonymous IP began rewriting Wikipedia's articles about First Nations writers Tomson Highway, Evan Adams and Daniel David Moses to assert that they are not actually First Nations people, but instead Eurasian government spies living among the First Nations as infiltrators and interlopers — and with edit summaries such as A Eurasian who has spent a lifetime working for the Canadian government pretending to be American. Wikipedia needs to check these alien apartheid entities, such as this colonial Canada government spy, out before they write these entries or A necessary and obvious correction to tell the truth on Wikipedia. Needless to say, no real sources were cited to support the new (and obviously WP:BLP-defying) descriptions.

Accordingly, I'd like to request that as many people as possible keep an eye out over the next while in case this kind of unsourced allegation comes back and/or expands to other articles. Thanks. Bearcat (talk) 22:30, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

As I noted to you elsewhere, I think, all such IPs should be noted/tracked....there's a larger agenda at work behind them.Skookum1 (talk) 06:17, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
Oh, believe me, I agree completely — frankly I think Wikipedia has long needed to stop allowing anonymous IP edits at all, because they're more trouble than they're worth, and our responsibility to be fair and accurate in our coverage of topics is now in conflict with our visibility as a target for vandalism and other agenda editing. But unfortunately that's not a decision that you or I have the ability to make unilaterally — until there's a sitewide consensus established to move to a logged-in-editors-only model, all we can do is watch out for this crap as it arises. Bearcat (talk) 06:54, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
In the header at the top of WP:BLPN I added a link to the revision deletion IRC. Just click the little green 'connect' button in the first red sentence. Those edits and edit summaries should be removed from the histories IMHO. All of the revdel folk on that IRC are admin so they may look into the IPs that made the edits and deal with them.--Canoe1967 (talk) 15:50, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

New RS?

Looking at that I doubt that it would be appropriate for us to use as an actual linked and footnoted citation for anything, given its user-edited nature, but it would certainly be useful for consultation purposes (e.g. seeing what their sources are, and then citing those as references where and when needed.) Bearcat (talk) 04:29, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Electoral firsts in Canada

I have some issues with Electoral firsts in Canada that I'd like to bring up for discussion. For starters, it's a really badly formatted and ugly list that's in desperate need of some cleanup and style improvement — but more importantly, it seems to be straying from its originally intended purpose in several ways.

For example, while for some roles it properly just lists the first person to attain the distinction, for some others it lists every person who's ever attained the distinction at all. "First Chinese Canadian MP", for instance, lists every Chinese Canadian who has ever served in the House of Commons, not just the first, and "First openly-gay MP" similarly lists every (or, well, actually it's missing one) openly gay MP who has ever served, as well as one who technically predates even Svend but didn't come out until long after his retirement. "First Jewish mayors", on the other hand, seems to list everybody who was ever the first Jewish mayor of their own individual city, but fails to actually explain that that's what it's doing — I wondered, for instance, why Mel Lastman wasn't on it before I realized what the real inclusion criterion was and how that precluded him — and even so there are still "first Jewish mayors" missing. (I'm not 100% sure if Stephen Mandel was Edmonton's first Jewish mayor or whether there were one or more Jews before him, for instance, but somebody needs to be on that list representing Edmonton if that's the criterion.)

There are also some ethnic groupings whose importance on a list of electoral firsts is questionable at best: for instance, is it really a particularly important aspect of Peter Kormos' biography that he was the first Slovak Canadian to run for the leadership of a major party, or of Michael Ignatieff's that he was the first Russian Canadian leader of the Opposition and leader of a major federal political party, or of Ralph Klein's that he was the First German Canadian Provincial Premier? And then there are others (e.g. Dutch) that elide the ethnicity and just single out the first Netherlands-born immigrants to attain a particular distinction instead, and still others (Hungarian, Croatian) that distinguish both the first Canadian-born person of that ethnicity and the first immigrant born in the mother country, even though most other ethnic subsections just list people of that background without regard to nuances of citzenship status.

So, in other words, there's a lot of mess to clean up here and I'd like to see some of it start to actually get cleaned up. Bearcat (talk) 22:34, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

I took a weed-whacker to the Chinese Canadian section and added a few items elsewhere; the LGBT section needs pruning yet.......an article on Johnder Basran, first Indo-Canadian mayor, needs to be written; his dates as mayor I'll check on with local contacts.....might have even been 1958 when he was elected, he was mayor a long time.Skookum1 (talk) 02:45, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
I just wrote the editor of the Bridge River-Lillooet News to see if they have a bio or obit for him that can be used as a cite; their own article I think is still a redlink but needs at least a stub, I'll try to get to it in the next while.Skookum1 (talk) 02:48, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
I noticed you whacked the difference between first and first-woman/man. Shouldn't that be included? Though cabinet ministers are not elected, becoming one is a political first, where would that be listed? -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 04:01, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
For the same reason, inclusion of G-G's and L-G's here is questionablre. Canadian viceregal first isn't that catchy though maybe necessary. First woman mayor (or reeve) should be here too if it's not.Skookum1 (talk) 02:32, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

town/neighbourhood re Aldergrove, BC and elsewheres

please see/comment at Talk:Aldergrove,_British_Columbia#town.2Fneighbourhood.Skookum1 (talk) 02:32, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

comma-province again

In re the (now reversed due to my request) of Canoe BC into the City of Salmon Arm as Canoe, Salmon Arm there's a discussion I've started at Talk:Canoe,_British_Columbia#comma_province and it's not unrelated to the previous issue of town/neighbourhood in the previous section. Agassiz is a town, Aldergrove is a town, Fort Langley is a town.....not in the municipal incorporation sense, and the word is also current for lots of unincorporated communities......Yale, Hedley, Boston Bar, Spences Bridge that are spoken of as "towns" though never having had incorporated status (not that I know of....maybe long ago in Spences Bridge's and Yale's cases). Demanding that something be called a "neighbourhood" because Wikipedia's "rules" say so isn't appropriate; Wikipedia is supposed to reflect reality, not change or re-brand it. in the case of the comma-province issue, nobody writes "Agassiz, Kent" or "Ladner, Delta" on a shipping parcel or letter or whatever.....Skookum1 (talk) 06:14, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

This is disambiguation and has nothing to do with shipping a parcel or letter. --Skeezix1000 (talk) 14:09, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
  • I agree with Skookum1, applying the neighbourhood rule to rural towns violates WP:COMMONNAME. I would give it a pass for being mere disambiguation if it used brackets like normal disambiguation, but if we're using a comma I think we should use common usage. If Fort McMurray required disambiguation, I could accept "Fort McMurray, Alberta" or "Fort McMurray (Wood Buffalo)", but not "Fort McMurray, Wood Buffalo"; built up areas in rural municipalities are not the same thing as neighbourhoods. —Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 18:46, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
That's not the naming convention. But more importantly, I fail to see how it violates COMMONNAME. The common name here is Fort McMurray. Just because we use a comma in disambiguation does not mean we are addressing a letter. Disambiguation isn't intended to reflect common usage (the vast majority of disambiguation on Wikipedia does not) - it's a means for us in the encyclopedia to consistently name articles when there are conflicts for the same article name. And how does the ruralness of a place affect its common name? People in cities use commas, and people in rural areas use brackets? More importantly, where would we draw the line? At what point does something become rural? What if half the population drives into the nearest town for work, like is so often the case? With amalgamations, we have urban municipalities in Canada containing what many people would call rural settlements, albeit many of them contain suburban tract housing. What constitutes rural, if it is, say, located within the City of Ottawa? This is what we were trying to avoid in those lengthy discussions about the naming convention - inconsistent naming based on personal perceptions of what people think people call places and the subjective perceptions of the identity of some places versus others. --Skeezix1000 (talk) 19:28, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
The reason, by the way, commas were chosen for unincorporated settlements was because someone at the time suggested we should leave brackets for DABbing geographic features. I think that's even reflected in the naming convention. Is that the problem? --Skeezix1000 (talk) 19:34, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
  • I think that we should consider common usage because using commas isn't like normal disambiguation. When we use parentheses for disambiguation, we can put whatever is most convenient and useful in the parentheses. However, when we use commas, I think that we should look for something that is actually said. To my ears, names like "Agincourt, Toronto" and "Saint-Henri, Montreal" flow almost as naturally as "Saint John, New Brunswick", whereas names like "Ladner, Delta" or "Fort McMurray, Wood Buffalo" seem artificial. That said, we do need a standardized rule, and I'm not sure where to draw the threshold. —Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 22:24, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
I'm not sure I agree that commas are not like normal disambiguation (is that in our policies or guideline?s). Disambiguation isn't intended to be like "something that is actually said" (which, unfortunately, is an incredibly subjective standard), and how terms "flow" to the ears is another personal and highly debatable standard (I don't think you would disagree). Disambiguation and how we would address a parcel are two separate and distinct issues. The threshold issue you've raised is the fundamental problem (as I hinted at above) -- the reason for the current naming convention, if you look at the old discussions, is that we tried to establish a clear, unambiguous standard that was not dependent on personal perceptions so that we could at some point achive naming consistency. I don't see commas as the problem, but as I asked above, would this be solved by brackets (which you seem to suggest is the case)? Skeezix1000 (talk) 17:28, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
Not sure it would be solved by brackets. What would we then do with the following and countless other examples around the world?
  • I don't think we should actually use parentheses for city disambiguation, that was more for the sake of comparison. My point is that when using parentheses for disambiguation you can put anything you want in them, but when using other forms of disambiguation, like commas for cities (or, for example, middle initials for people), we should at least give some consideration to actual usage. But above all we need a standard so we don't have to fight over ever case, which is why I like the Canada Post standard. —Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 20:04, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
Since this discussion is about "comma-province" versus "comma-city", I suggest that we abandon any further discussion about "comma disambiguation" versus "parentheses disambiguation" and save that for a later discussion whether here or elsewhere. Hwy43 (talk) 23:03, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
I don't think it's helpful to say certain issues are off limits (I know your comment was well intended and you were just trying to keep us on topic - I'm not criticizing you, just saying I think the scope is different). We appear to have a situation here some people seem to have an issue with the punctuation rather than the form of disambiguation. It's a potential solution. Skeezix1000 (talk) 17:28, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
Fair enough. You are correct it was well-intended and an effort to keep on topic for the assumed benefit to the editor that opened the discussion, and no intention other than that. Hwy43 (talk) 19:41, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
Okay, let me get this straight, I don't think I've been following this convention properly in the past. If it's an original name, with no disam needed, its just "Neighbourhood". If it needs disambiguation, it should always be "Neighbourhood, City". But then WP:CANSTYLE leaves it up to Canada Post, saying: "Where a neighbourhood is recognized as a distinct and valid municipal address by Canada Post, the title may be at "Neighbourhood, Province" rather than "Neighbourhood, City". Is that about right? The Interior (Talk) 23:26, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
Precisely. Skeezix1000 (talk) 17:28, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
  • Interesting, it looks we already have Sookum1's shipping convention in CANSTYLE. By that measure, Salmon Arm, Aldergrove, Yale, Hedley, Boston Bar, Spences Bridge, Agassiz, Fort McMurray, and Saint-Henri can be at "City, Province", but Fort Langley, Ladner, and Agincourt have to be at "Neighbourhood, City". I'm okay with that standard. —Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 00:16, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
Yes. That's right. That's basically how it works. As I said at Talk:Canoe, British Columbia (we have two simultaneous discussions ongoing on the same topic), "The naming convention/MOS is crystal clear, and as Skookum says, it was the subject of lots of discussion. If disambiguation is required, neighbourhoods/villages/settlements/etc. (i.e. unincorporated settlements) are disambiguated by the name of the municipality. In special cases, we use the province - for this latter group of articles, so as to avoid arbitrary, circular and subjective discussions about whether a place has an historic identity or not (every place has a historic identity) or even more irrelevant discussions about what people would write on an envelope, a clear and unambiguous (and necessarily arbitrary) threshold was established - if Canada Post currently itself uses the "Place, Province" as a distinct mailing address, then here on Wikipedia we disambiguate by province. If not, we disambiguate by municipality. The point of having a clear threshold was to avoid subjective and endless oxygen-sucking discussions about identity, usage, regional quirks, personal views, etc., all of which had resulted in inconsistent and confusing naming of these articles." Skeezix1000 (talk) 17:28, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
I'm NOT happy with Fort Langley, Township of Langley or Fort Langley, Langley or with Ladner, Corporation of Delta or Ladner, Delta....or for that matter Brackendale, Squamish (currently Brackendale, British Columbia, likewise Cheekeye, British Columbia rather than Cheekeye, Squamish; those are identifiable separate areas within the District of Squamish (which like other munis has seen expansion from its original boundaries); neighbourhoods within the town of Squamish area are like Valleycliffe are different. Also in the big new City of Kamloops, places like Heffley Lake, British Columbia (which is a rural residential area in a separate valley but now part of the CoK) are not served at all by Heffley Lake, Kamloops. Tranquille, British Columbia for example though part of the City of Kamloops NOW, has its own history/identity; same with Rutland, British Columbia (Kelowna's Surrey, kinda), not Rutland, Kelowna or Okanagan Mission, Kelowna (OK Mission doesn't really need a disambiguation at all though). Just because something is inside a municipal boundary does not mean it's a "neighbourhood" which is the other terminological issue that this is about.......Skookum1 (talk) 02:44, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
The issue, Skookum, is not about making one person happy, or arguing endlessly about personal perceptions of what places have their own history/identity (as far as I am concerned, every single settlement in the country has its own history and identity - and frankly, someone in China or Italy at this moment reading this would tell us that in her perspective every settlement in Canada was founded yesterday as they are all so relatively new). The issue is finding a convention that is clear, unambiguous and predicatable (which is what we have now), and is not dependent on having lengthy arguments at each article over whether a place is rural or not (or how rural it is), whether it is in a separate valley, how much of an "identity" it has, and other personal, subjective and debatable criteria. The naming convention is the naming convention. It can always be reviewed (as I said at the Canoe talk page), but if we want something different, we need to determine what other clear, unambiguous and predictable standard to use. Skeezix1000 (talk) 17:28, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
I agree. The convention currently is clear, unambiguous and predicatable, as it should be. It should not be subjective at all. My comment is that I feel that "distinct and valid municipal address by Canada Post" should not be the only criteria. Other non-subjective, clear-cut criteria could and should be added. If not, there are so many existing communities articles with disambiguated names that are not compliant with CANSTYLE. Hwy43 (talk) 20:08, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
Yes, we've never undertaken a concerted effort for all Canadian place articles to make them consistent with CANSTYLE, it's always been a piecemeal/fix-as-you-go approach. As for havng an additional criterion, often using more than one criteria can make a convention or guideline more complicated or less clear, but not always. It depends on what it is. Skeezix1000 (talk) 18:57, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
Further, are you suggesting determining what other clear, unambiguous and predictable standard to use instead of the current clear, unambiguous and predictable standard, or suggesting other(s) to add in addition to the current? I'm comfortable with the current, but adding one or more others as just mentioned above. Hwy43 (talk) 20:22, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
I'm fine with what exists, but also acknowledge that naming conventions are not cast in stone. As for adding, it depends on what it is. Skeezix1000 (talk) 18:57, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
I'm not keen on Fort Langley or Ladner at "Neighbourhood, City" either, but the former is moot as it is already undisambiguated at Fort Langley. Hwy43 (talk) 04:24, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
The neighborhood rule to town is not WP:COMMONNAME. Are we going to call Armstrong (incorporated city) a town now because it is also common? No. TBrandley 23:28, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
Again, I don't think this has anything to do with COMMONNAME, as disambiguation rarely reflects the common name of something. Skeezix1000 (talk) 17:28, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
Armstrong is a city, not a town. The "town" argument here is about refusing to admit that somewhere IS a town just because it's inside a muni (Aldergrove is very decidedly a town in the non-municipal sense of the word and is regularly described as such; it has rural areas but it is not a "rural community" either......Skookum1 (talk) 02:44, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
Nobody is refusing to admit whether something is a town or not. This has nothing to do with towns. This is a naming convention that says if something is unincorporated, we have a certain naming convention for it. It's disambiguation, and has nothing to with whether it is a town or not. We are not making any statements as to what people may or may not call it, and frankly we are not saying that any of the people that call a place a town, hamlet, village, etc. are wrong.Skeezix1000 (talk) 17:28, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
I guess you didn't get the memo....someone here posited that "if it's not incorporated as a town, we can't call it a town".....Skookum1 (talk) 04:29, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
I don't see any such comment. Maybe it got deleted. Skeezix1000 (talk) 18:57, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

A related example that hasn't come up yet is the host of communities within the Northern Rockies Regional Municipality (word is the province is going to do this to other regions of the province soon......maybe that's just a BC Lib plan, though, and will be poofed as of the May election).......Fort Nelson, Northern Rockies is a "neighbourhood" then according to the logic that is being advanced here, and "should not be referred to as a town"; it's currently Fort Nelson, British Columbia....can't remember the other placenames up there (the NRRM is huge. The usual style in BC media/publications for places like Agassiz or Aldergrove goes "is a small town in the District/Township of Kent/Langley. What's called Matsqui Village now used to be just Matsqui, which meant both the town and the village core that's still there (just south of the Mission bridge)....and also included Clearbrook and Bradner.......Clayburn was unincorporated until the creation of the City of Abbotsford....and is much older than Abbotsford......Clayburn, Abbotsford is a non-starter, ditto Silverdale, Mission.Skookum1 (talk) 02:49, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Oh, I see Clayburn, British Columbia has become a redirect to Clayburn, Abbotsford.........not acceptable given Clayburn's long separate history and separate identity. gee there's so many like this no doubt....I wonder if Boundary Bay, Delta has replaced Boundary Bay, British Columbia and Rosedale, British Columbia is now Rosedale, Chilliwack......IMO that's grossly wrong.Skookum1 (talk) 02:53, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
Say, if the government turns the Fraser Valley Regional District into the Fraser Valley Regional Municipality (as has been talked about, though sounds like the City of Chilliwack would be separate, the way Abby is now withdrawn from the FVRD because of the water supply fight (another reason why RDs aren't really good ways to subdivide the province for categorization purposes; they're mutable), then Yale, British Columbia would become, according to this "neighbourhood, city" paradigm, Yale, Fraser Valley, likewise Spuzzum, British Columbia to Spuzzum, Fraser Valley and Boston Bar, British Columbia to Boston Bar, Fraser Valley]....all of them being actually in the Fraser Canyon which is not part of the Fraser Valley only included in the regional district that has that name as its namesake (the Valley ends at Hope). The argument advancing Wiki "rules" here vs the facts on the ground does not hold water for me at all.Skookum1 (talk) 02:59, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
I agree with much of Skookum1's arguments in the three immediate edits above (with the exception of one thing that he is aware about outside of this discussion) under certain conditions, particularly the Fort Nelson case. I just brought up a similar example here about Alberta's hamlets. Hwy43 (talk) 04:39, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
  • According to the Canada Post standard, Rosedale and Fort Nelson should be at "city, province". It looks like the Canada Post standard recognizes towns in regional municipalities when they are isolated or have a particular history and identity. It's not a perfect system, but it's verifiable, and I think it's better than us arguing about whether each community has enough independent identity to be treated as a town or neighbourhood. —Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 07:35, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
Although regional districts have municipal-like powers, they are not "regional municipalities" in the sense of definition; the only one of those in BC is the Northern Rockies Regional Municipality...though I do get the context you mean, of course. About the NRRM communities, other than Fort Nelson itself, there's Muncho Lake, British Columbia, Toad River, British Columbia, Tetsa Lake and Prophet River, British Columbia; none would be appropriate (other than Muncho, which is actually in the Rockies, and maybe Toad River) as Prophet River, Northern Rockies in the same way that Boston Bar, Fraser Valley would not be correct.Skookum1 (talk) 07:48, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
Toad River, Prophet River, Tetsa Lake are also IRs.....not sure how they interact with the NRRM...probably not all that amicably. The NRRM was created to subvert land claims in the area, which (mostly) is part of Treaty 8. IRs are not part of RD governments, other than Tsawwassen FN in the GVRD and maybe the Sechelt Nation in the Sunshine Coast RD; including them in RD articles is always awkward because of them not being part of regional districts, only within their boundaries - which is not the same thing.Skookum1 (talk) 07:51, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
I've explained many times now why I think Skookum's approach is so problematic. We can't have a naming convention dependent on the personal perceptions of whatever editors happen to swing by at any given time, based on their own crietria related to identity, distinctiveness, etc. I agree with Arctic Gnome's last comment. Skeezix1000 (talk) 17:28, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
They were examples of the result of a rigid application of the "place, municipality" style of disambiguation apparently being demanded as fixed and mandatory by others here.Skookum1 (talk) 04:26, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Revelstoke

Relating to this, should Revelstoke really be a dab page, and Revelstoke, British Columbia be the city? Does the redlinked village in Devon necessitate this? The Interior (Talk) 02:03, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

I'd say because of the peerage (for a title holder of which it was named) it does need a dab page. Yes Revelstoke Park, Mount Revelstoke and Revelstoke DAm and Airport and what not are all ancillary to the main Canadian use, but it's not the main use in the UK where the term originated (nor is the village in Devon).Skookum1 (talk) 05:42, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
The only unadorned use of "Revelstoke" is the city, though. "Revelstoke" and "Baron Revelstoke" aren't ambiguous, to me anyway. The Interior (Talk) 17:04, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

BC Railways list - name?

posted this just now on WP:Trains' talkpage = I'm just going through a historical resource on BC history and coming across names of railway companies and routes, built or not, in the heyday of railway speculation; some have since been absorbed by other railways. Not sure of List of railways in British Columbia or List of historical railways in British Columbia - maybe the latter is better - or too exclusive? Crowsnest Pass & Kootenay, Vancouver Victoria and Eastern, New Westminster & Southern, and more......over 150 if they were all listed. Only a few so far as in Category:Defunct_British_Columbia_railways and/or Category:British Columbia railways Some are named in the Grand Trunk and CPR articles and there may be redirects to them, which should have one of those categories; ditto the Howe Sound and Eastern Railway which was to become the BCR.Skookum1 (talk) 04:18, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Should also note that the category name Category:British Columbia railways is confusing because of the name British Columbia Railway; just took a few articles out of that category because they were BCR-related......Category:Railways of British Columbia or "in British Columbia" or whatever would be better but maybe that's not OK in the Category:Railways hierarchy?Skookum1 (talk) 04:23, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Trudeau Sr.

Does anyone want to pop over to Talk:Pierre Trudeau and help the frantic editor on the '68-'69 election?--Canoe1967 (talk) 03:03, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

The sentences right after his wedding seem very tabloidish as well. Worded like they had problems the day after consummation.--Canoe1967 (talk) 04:38, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Glacier National Park (Canada)

To do my part of Canada Contribution Month, I've decided to get this one up to GA level. Any help is appreciated, especially going through your harddrives/albums for good images - it's a beautiful spot, and our current ones don't do it justice. The Interior (Talk) 05:02, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Did a couple of minor fixes, including dabbing Rogers Pass (British Columbia) in the infobox......just to note the redlinks on the article - Mount Dawson, the highest in the Selkirks, needs an article especially.Skookum1 (talk) 06:22, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

The Source (newspaper) created

Created this because it figures on the Adrian Dix page where it had to be redlinked for dab reasons until this was created just now. Not up on what stubs are out there or other fixes needed for it, so posting here. Is there a "French-language newspapers published in Canada" category (it has a French edition and French language website-version)?Skookum1 (talk) 06:14, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Adrian Dix needs semi-protect at least

This is the latest reversal of repeated attempts to insert highly POV accounts of the Casinogate legal proceeding/scandal and Dix's re-dating of a memo to do with that; some insertions have been cited, this one wasn't, but they all come from the same agenda - the re-dated letter is one of the main BC Liberal talking points about Dix. Different IP addresses have been used, at least one such insertion was from a SPA......six or seven times. This page is only going to see more of this in coming weeks, with the BC election scheduled in May.....needs a semi-protect of full-protect. And Casinogate needs an article, tricky as it will be to cite (given that the mainstream media, the so-called "reliable sources" were part of the witchhunt) and to keep NPOV. I'm kinda COI to write it because of my blogging activities against the BC Libs and their kind.....Casinogate is the one big major "scandal" (Clark was acquitted but had "done the right thing" and resigned when the investigation started, unlike other Premiers since who refuse to resign or admit any wrongdoing despite evidence coming out the ying-yang against them, as also with Ottawa lately). Another Clark-era article needing writing is Salmon War, though that's less of a POV bombshell than Casinogate will be.Skookum1 (talk) 02:45, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

In the time it took me to write that the same IP user had 2RR'd me, I just reported it to BLP....this is really more like an 8RR because of all the IP addresses; all of them should be blocked IMO.Skookum1 (talk) 02:54, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

The Vancouver Sun is now covering the happenings at the Adrian Dix article, increased attention is likely. 117Avenue (talk) 05:45, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

BLP notice placed on Talk:Adrian Dix

re-insertion (and escalation, including to a link featuring an attack ad) has continued on this article; I've asked for a full or semi protect......which should stand through the campaign period (at least).Skookum1 (talk) 04:06, 9 April 2013 (UTC)


Skookum1 should be banned from editing the Adrian Dix page. As he admits, Skookum1 is anti BC Liberal and has blogged about it. Editing should be unbiased and Skookum1 does not have this ability. His edits of Wikipedia pages are pro NDP, and his comments against other Users are snarky and rude. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Downtownvanman (talk • contribs) 04:40, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Yawn. There's a difference between wanting a full and fair coverage of a topic vs. an overt tub-thump in concert with a known political agenda, as you are advancing on a clearly POV agenda, obsessing over this one matter in Dix's past, and gee it just happens to be part of a noticeable and blatant public/media campaign, also found in the news forums you complain I blog in, that is clearly part of the BC Liberal campaign agenda. You claim to be an experienced user but you're clearly not by your shoddy formatting of your swipe at me on my talkpage just now........Skookum1 (talk) 04:44, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

If this article needs anything, it is examination and discussion from multiple other editors. Consensus and cool heads should prevail in this situation. --Natural RX 17:09, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Well you two made the news. Completely removing that section was probably wrong. All that probably needed to be done was find a better source if that source contained an attack ad. -DJSasso (talk) 17:44, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

I would be interested to see Skookum apply his doctrine of "full and fair" here and rewrite this article in such a manner. Because frankly, all I am seeing from him in the article history is the borderline whitewashing that the Vancouver Sun article argues. That being said, I also think Downtownvanman's additions aren't really helpful. That Dix was fired from his post as part of Clark's scandal is already mentioned and does not require restatement. While an additional statement that his past is being used against him in current campaigning may be fair, it does not require a full section created that basically acts as a highlight pen. From where I am sitting, neither of you are operating in NPOV fashion, but rather as opposing POVs. And you both might want to take a look at WP:3RR. Resolute 20:11, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
WP:NPOV, for the record, cuts both ways: it is just as inappropriate to use a Wikipedia article to maximize how bad a person is presented as being as it is to whitewash any controversies entirely. We do not give controversies WP:UNDUE weight, as Skookum correctly points out, and we do not source things to partisan attack ads — but the solution here is to discuss the matter on the talk page rather than to get into a revert war over it. Rather, if you want the backdated memo to be discussed in the article, then you need to dig out sources contemporary to the original incident rather than decade-later attack ad sourcing. And you need to prove that it's relevant to an encyclopedia article about him — because in exactly the same way that Wikipedia should avoid writing about every individual dumb thing Rob Ford says or does, but instead maintain a critical filter to ensure that we're only adding the stuff that's genuinely important, not everything that people might want to write about Adrian Dix is actually important enough to warrant inclusion in an encyclopedia. Bearcat (talk) 22:09, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

need help with map credit

I can't remember whose basemap this was based on, though I did make this variant of it; the original is in the Commons. User:Mkdw maybe, can't remember, or....damn can't remember his username, from Alberta I think, no longer active. I have a "we don't want to delete it" advisory File:708px-South_BC-NW_USA-relief_NorthCascades.png.Skookum1 (talk) 10:19, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

User:Qyd? --Skeezix1000 (talk) 20:22, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
Ya, that's who, thanks. Dormant right now I think, no?Skookum1 (talk) 03:16, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Meatpuppet on Adrian Dix doing same-same only worse

Already notified Bearcat and Mastcell see here. The POV content is back and the Sun article (with its egregious errors and false attributions of blame and the fake claim I'm on the COI noticeboard) is used as one of the cites, as well as a POV editorial from a decidedly POV newspaper. The account doing this has 'ripened' since creation on April 9 and can now bypass the semi-protect. I can't act on this now, of course.....I wonder who the headlines will blame next time? And the COI newbie who did all this is on two weeks vacation, of course.....and asserts that his paper is a reliable source while publishing, shamelessly and without retraction, an article that's clearly not reliable.....Skookum1 (talk) 02:17, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes Skookum, a "meatpuppet" who has been editing for nearly four years and has 15,000 edits. Not created April 9 like you claim, and obviously not a meatpuppet like you claim. Your consistent assumptions of bad faith in those who don't share your viewpoints are decidedly childish and do you no favours at all. Another editor correctly removed their addition, but frankly, you've brought this on yourself. Resolute 03:15, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
Yeah I just got up (Thailand time) and hadn't had coffee......the tone and content of this person's edits, for someone with 15,000 of them, is highly questionable, meat puppet or notl. But yo'ure probably happy to see me slandered in the press, aren't you, Resolute?Skookum1 (talk) 03:27, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
I will admit to being amused by it, mainly because you aren't nearly as objective as you pretend to be. But I still think your solution here is to follow the advice I gave above - get a bunch of reliable sources (as Wikipedia defines them, not your personal view) and expand the article. Fill it with good info on his early and personal life, his employment and his political career, and you will find that the memo incident can be adequately covered while also blending into the background of the article. Such expansions and rewrites will have the added benefit of showing your own ability to edit in good faith and NPOV. Your better solution in cases like this is expansion. It prevents the bad things from sticking out as brightly as they do otherwise. Resolute 03:39, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
The better solution is for someone to get on the Casinogate article, as the case is extremely complex and is not just about this silly memo business; see the Terry Glavin and Alex Tsakumis links and there's tons in non-Pacific Press papers (if the combination of the Sun and Province are still called that, I'm not sure; same org - canada.com). Dix I know little about and don't find interesting enough to work on. And for the record I do have a COI connection to the NDP< but not a functional one; my brother and I rarely speak and don't see eye to eye on much, but he waa an organizer for Farnworth's leadership race and a long-standing NDP organizer in Maple Ridge, and on the executive of IBEW 213; and my mother was a federal Liberal, my father was Social Credit, I was a founding Green and also National Party for as long as they lasted before self-destruct, and a long-time good friend from long-ago who I fell out of touch with in recent years is Blair T. Longley, leader os past leader of the Marijuana Party.....that's my full disclosure, other than my role in the BC Mary blog as one of the main snipers at the trolls who came by there to harrass Mary (RIP) and spout nonsense and my former role as commentator at The Tyee and less and less so lately in the HuffPo. I was targeted by these guys, I know that, there were hostile posts against me on my own page and on someone else's that clearly came from forumspace idiots. But it's too contentious for me to start Casinogate and despite Lee's claim I'm managing or directing BC Rail coverage I haven't touched that stuff in years; those of us who know about the rest of what should be on BC Legislature Raids and the bio articles needed to go with it find the matter distasteful....and we all know it would incur the presence of jerks like the ones trying to turn the Dix article into a copy of the attack ad.....Skookum1 (talk) 03:50, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
Nobody's going to do your editing for you. If you feel a casinogate article is warranted but feel it would be contentious for you to create it in mainspace, create it in your userspace. I'll take a look at it before it goes live, and hopefully someone like Bearcat will too. Resolute 04:05, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
I wouldn't post it if it didn't have input from other editors, particularly those from BC....but it's clear the ConcernedVancouverite isn't one of those I'd invite to take part......there's a host of articles and expansions needed on BC politics, from the Bonner Scandal through to a better write up on Joe Martin, and the pack of articles needed to cover the BC Rail imbroglio......external non-BC input/comment will be needed to "globalize" things; often even geography articles in BC are written in a kind of BC-ese frame of reference; things need to be clarified for those beyond the mountains and south of the line. BC Rail is more important than Casinogate and like I said involves a host of bios to be created or affected, another from the Casinogate era that's very important in terms of Canada-US relations was the Salmon War, which you may even have heard of in Alberta....Skookum1 (talk) 04:11, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
I"m writing SEO for a living now, so have to ration my time here; as it is this business with Dix's article and the Sun has taken up a lot of my time these last few days; I'll start a sandbox of the basics of Casinogate maybe on the weekend or before, just an outline; it's very complex.Skookum1 (talk) 04:14, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
Wikipedia is never finished, so it can wait on your schedule on this one. Take the time you want/need. Resolute 04:18, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
Other than this memo nonsense, Casinogate is largely old news; BC Rail is on the front burner because it will be a much more notable election issue and, after the election on May 13 provided that Dix wins (he is very unlikely to lose), the subject of a major public inquiry.Skookum1 (talk) 04:26, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

"Canada's New Government" page

I happened to notice these because of an edit on the Harper template, surprisingly it didn't have WP Canada on its talkpage Talk:Canada's New Government. Surprised there'd be an article on this, though what's there is indeed interesting.....the "Harper government" phrase is the more controversial though related topic, and as in my previous objections to its use in title bears on the economic policy, social policy articles that I think are WP:UNDUE and were indeed started as WP:SOAP and were vary partisan/leadership cult in origin IMO. To me this article shoulder either have a parallel one on the "Harper government" controvery/term for which there are far more incidents than the one recounted on this page; maybe Rebranding of the name of the Government of Canada or something else that could include both these examples, and could also take in the use of party colours on public property (including the Prime Minister's plane as well as the colouring on trains funded by the feds et al).Skookum1 (talk) 04:15, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Languages of Canada

Just working on Languages of Canada and there are several references that link to here. Searching through there I couldn't find the information nor did a general search provide any answers. I tagged them as {{deadlink}} but it would probably be a good idea if someone else checked them. Thanks. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 05:16, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

BC Steamboat articles in need of doing

Please see Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_British_Columbia#Steamboat_articles_in_need_of_doing.Skookum1 (talk) 15:16, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Canadian Doctors for Medicare

Hi, All the information posted about Canadian Doctors for Medicare was taken directly from the organization's website, which exists in the public domain and is not copyrighted.

http://www.canadiandoctorsformedicare.ca/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mmill25 (talk • contribs) 21:03, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Are you referring to information posted to the article "Canadian Doctors for Medicare"?
—Wavelength (talk) 21:28, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
Copy and paste as been removed as per "Copyright © 2010 Canadian Doctors for Medicare" - that is on every page that was copied to here.Moxy (talk) 21:38, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Parkland County, Alberta

The Parkland County entry appears to imply that Spruce Grove, Stony Plain, and Wabamun are part of the county. Although these communities are fully surrounded by Parkland County, they are separate entities. How can this be clarified?

Rdmerl (talk) 01:13, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

I don't think it needs to be explicit. If one clicks the wikilinked Cities, Towns and Villages sub-headings under Parkland County, Alberta#Communities and localities (above the entries of Spruce Grove, Stony Plain and Wabamun respectively), it is confirmed that these are separate municipalities. Hwy43 (talk) 01:42, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
I'm not sure that it is clear even in the cities (and others) article but I might be missing something. Even if it is then are many people going to click through to find it? I think a footnote, separate from the references, should be included explaining it. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 07:02, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
Similar to the problem of an IR being "in" a municipality or RD in BC; when they're separate from them, in practice and law.Skookum1 (talk) 01:35, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

CanCon needed on Tribe (disambiguation)

"Tribe" in its Canadian usage is obviously not the same as in the States, where it's an actual legal status/title; and there's no point in trying to globalize Tribe (Native American) as it's best to leave that alone as a USian article. It can mean, in Canada, a language group, a local group, a band, or even a tribal council.......and e.g. within the Kwakwaka'wakw people, one of their subgroups like the 'Namgis. Don't want to start it, just wanting to point out the issue/absence of CanCon on this.Skookum1 (talk) 01:30, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Superannuation needs to be a dab, not a redirect

Thought of this re the discussions of NB mini-categories; in Shediac, New Brunswick there is Superannuation (Canada), a federal government department, don't know which ministry, which is one of the main employers in town......Superannuation currently is a redirect to Pension but it's an institution name in Canada.....it's the department which oversees government pensions.....the Senate ones only, maybe, can't remember what my cousin said, he works there.Skookum1 (talk) 04:08, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Without ever heard of the department I would agree with a DAB rather than a redirect, it is explicitly referred to as Superannuation in Australia (or super), and is not exactly a pension, more like an RRSP as it travels with you regardless of who you work for. --kelapstick(bainuu) 06:09, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
In this case, it is a federal government department and it's, as I remember from what my cousin said, for Senate pensions.....only.Skookum1 (talk) 04:39, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

2012 tour of She Has a Name

2012 tour of She Has a Name is currently up for a Good Article Nomination and the reviewer has requested an independent copyedit. If anyone who has not had previous involvement with the article would be willing to perform such a copyedit, it would be greatly appreciated. Neelix (talk) 19:04, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

File:Shidane Arone.jpg

File:Shidane Arone.jpg was deleted last year. Shouldn't this have been non-free historic image , and this kept around? (for Somalia Affair) -- 70.24.250.103 (talk) 23:36, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Fast Ferries Scandal needs review/cleanup

I'm staying away from this because it's a political hot-button in BC and, well, you know where I'm coming from on getting into that as a past-time I guess...... but there's been a slew of changes, many from IP users and a series of them from User:Britishcumbia which seem OK, though he/she has deleted some cited material. The edit that got my attention was this one where the IP user calls the deleted materials "nonsense" and granted they could have been articulated better; but there's another "nonsense" comment on an adjacent edit and again it seems dubious as "nonsense", more just needed a rewrite...the slew of activity is because these ferries are still talking-points in BC politics, and what with the election campaign underway, every little tweak here is significant in that context.......User:Britishcumbia's additions and such seem OK, it's the various deletions by him/her that have me concerned; hopefully there's another regular editor out there somewhat familiar with these and who won't have people complaining about COI/POV like they would if it was me. I don't know enough of the detailed history of the ships to supervise this....maybe someone at WP:SHIPS might be better than anyone here? Not sure who's in WIkiProject BC anymore......quite a few are no longer active.Skookum1 (talk) 05:53, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Trudeau clan

I just created Trudeau family. Should we expand it to look like Kennedy family or Romney family? There is probably a Hilton one kicking around somewhere as well.--Canoe1967 (talk) 03:20, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

User:Huon just made that a redirect to Trudeau.Skookum1 (talk) 04:40, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
No biggy. Should we expand it on the talk page for a while and then paste it back to an article? I don't have time now as I am busy with images etc. Skookum did you ever get one of the two-sided "You are now leaving Spuzzum" sign? I may email someone in the area otherwise.Canoe1967 (talk) 20:04, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
If you've got the sources, you shouldn't need to ask "permission" to go ahead and do it. One thing about the Kennedy and Romney family articles, though, is how extensive they are. Just take a look at how many blue-linked Kennedys there are! Not having an article on them is pretty much out of the question. Curly Turkey (gobble) 06:09, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
That's true about Kennedy etc as well as various other names; it could well be that all the Trudeaus, like all Kennedys and others, are indeed related; I have a friend who's a Couture, descended from Guillaume Couture, who says all North American Coutures are descended from their great-great-great-grandsire....including Randy Couture, who's my friend's 1st (or 2nd?) cousin.Skookum1 (talk) 06:20, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
and, no, I didn't find a pic of the double-sided sign, though remember it well....I managed to cite some of what's there using Michael Kluckner's excellent Vanishing BC website though, and I think the Spuzzum First Nation homepage probably may have more.Skookum1 (talk) 06:20, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
If you're expanding it offpage, I suggest doing it at Talk:Trudeau family/workpage with {{workpage}} attached to it. As for various Trudeau families and the coverage of the article, you could always do Trudeau political family or Family of Pierre Trudeau as other family articles are constructed. -- 70.24.250.103 (talk) 02:28, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Category overkill - BC candidates category

I just woke up to all the BC pols on my watch list getting Category:Candidates in British Columbia provincial elections (2013) and have to wonder if there's any precedents for such a category; do we have them for previous elections? What's the purpose of this category: Seems like overkill to me. Skookum1 (talk) 02:20, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

new CfD for the Chilcotin

Hopefully I get it right this time; please see Category:Populated_places_in_Chilcotin_(region) and note my comments about making the Chilcotin dab page the main article, also.Skookum1 (talk) 10:06, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Silvertip Ski Area hijacked by heli-spammers

Remember Bella Coola (ski area), not yet deleted (but should be) because it was an ad for a heliski company? Same deal here, this had been redlinked on the List of ski resorts and areas in Canada and was meant to refer to the old Silvertip Ski Area, now closed, SE of Hope, near Tashme/Sunshine Valley. See Talk:Silvertip_Ski_Area.Skookum1 (talk) 07:32, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Cœur de pirate discography

The Cœur de pirate discography is currently at FLC. Please leave comments and feedback to get this discography to Featured List status. – Underneath-it-All (talk) 18:54, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

Canadian Mountain Encyclopedia cites should now be titled Bivouac Mountain Encyclopedia

They've changed their DBA/website name for http://bivouac.com ....templates associated with this e.g. {{cite bivouac}} should be changed accordingly.Skookum1 (talk) 10:50, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Inclusion parameters for "People from community" categories

May I have some input at Talk:Normand Lacombe#Categories on what the inclusion parameters are for "People from community" categories on BLP articles? From past observation, I've seen people included in such categories whether they: 1) were born in the community; 2) born elsewhere but lived in the community for a period of time; or 3) are presently from the community. I attempted to engage the editor deleting the category in question in a discussion, but was disregarded, so clarification from others would be appreciated. Cheers, Hwy43 (talk) 03:20, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

In a country based on immigration, and where internal migration is common, someone associated with a town may very well not be born there, and may not live there any longer. Towns like Lillooet, British Columbia have "people from" who were born in Europe or the United States or Asia, but who were or are decidedly Lillooeters and claimed as such. I don't know myself what the strict Wiki guidelines for this there are....if any.Skookum1 (talk) 03:44, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
Another prime example is WAC Bennett who was born in New Brunswick but can certainly be construed as "from Kelowna" and very much "from BC". Sir John A was the MP for Victoria originally, though....but he never lived there.Skookum1 (talk) 03:47, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Input sought regarding List of the 100 largest municipalities in Canada by area

The above article was original titled List of the 100 largest cities and towns in Canada by area. It was moved last year, a consequence of which was that the move expanded the scope of the article to include all municipalities (not just cities and towns), whether intended or not. Regardless, the content of the article has yet to be revised to the expanded scope.

Three courses of action are suggested to resolve this. See the discussion here here for more detail and the suggested courses of action. Your input on the best course of action is requested. Hwy43 (talk) 02:49, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

CFB Chilliwack needs attention; wikify, cleanup, pics, refs

Just came across it while updating BC communities listings.....it's in rough shape, and has no refs other than the post office one I just added. Reported this also to WP:MILHIST. I think the military land reserve had been established long before the base was created on it, I'll check into that.Skookum1 (talk) 07:45, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Chilliwack (city) and Chilliwack articles and categories

Was gonna run this through CfD to make Chilliwack (city) into a redirect to either Chilliwack or Chilliwack, British Columbia, but User:Good Olfactory informs me that the category Category:Chilliwack (city) and its subcategories can't become Category:Chilliwack as long as the main article is title Chilliwack (city). My bad in the first place, I think it was me when I first got into Wikipedia, or not long after, created the Chilliwack page as a dab page, without realizing that as primary use the meaning is the city. So I need to run a formal requested move here, to change the main article title, or does it make enough sense that a discussion here and some action to harmonize it with other city articles/name conventions can be done easily, and likewise the category change. At one time there had been a Chilliwhack (district municipality) but it was spelled differently (that second 'h'). Unlike Lillooet and Squamish dab pages, there is no "Chilliwack people" or "Chilliwack language" that might be a competing primary use.Skookum1 (talk) 15:40, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Category:Squamish was a bad move

Squamish has more primary meanings than the Skwxwu7mesh people, the Cydebot cat-name change was ill-advised; please see comments at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2013_May_3#Category:Nux.C3.A1lk. I'll be having to make another CfR now, for Category:Skwxwu7mesh so it conforms to {{NorthAmNative}} guidelines re indigenous ethnocategory names and existing norms in Category:First Nations in British Columbia. I've advised User:The Bushranger and User:The Man in Question about their erroneous misapplication of Cydebot; this came from changing the name of the Swxwu7mesh article to Squamish people recently, along with others like it. Conventions for ethnographic categories exist in {{NorthAmNative}}, maybe it's time to codify them. Needless to say a category Category:Squamish people as the "individuals who are from the Squamish people" isn't workable as it also means "people from Squamish (place)".Skookum1 (talk) 06:42, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

I just created, in re the Nuxalk CfR, the needed ethno article Nuxalk people vs the only one extant until now, the Nuxalk Nation one for their government; this may mean a Category:Nuxalk people is the result, but that has the same issues as "Squamish people" or "Lillooet people" etc......the new article Nuxalk people needs attention, and more cites than just the one from the people/nation themselves; I just split Nuxalk Nation in order to make it. Canadian wiki editors (and FN ones) are noticeable in the CfRs by their, um, absence, also.Skookum1 (talk) 13:36, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Help with BP Canada article

I am looking for help with the BP Canada article and I thought perhaps someone watching this page would be interested in reviewing my request. As my user name indicates, I am an employee of BP and, because of my COI, I do not make any direct edits to Wikipedia articles. I recently prepared a few requests for factual updates to the BP Canada article, which are on the article's Talk page here. I have the BP Canada Talk page watchlisted and will respond to any comments or questions there. Thanks. Arturo at BP (talk) 15:19, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Central Time Zone

The usage of Central Time Zone is up for discussion, see Talk:Central Time Zone (North America) -- 65.94.76.126 (talk) 05:12, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

RM: Chilcotin people back to Tsilhqot'in

Please see Talk:Chilcotin_people#Requested_move.Skookum1 (talk) 12:42, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

modern-era BC Premiers need pix

I just added reqimage to Talk:Glen Clark and had a look around at the election article (1996) and the List of premiers of British Columbia, quite a few modern ones surprised me that there are no public-domain images of them available. Dan Miller and Rita Johnston I can understand, but WAC Bennett, Dave Barrett and Bill Vander Zalm you'd think there'd be lots of images out there; Bill Bennett might have one, I'm not sure, just scanned the list. It's odd on the British Columbia general election, 1996 page to only see Gordon Campbell's image (he lost) and neither the NDP nor Reform Party leader's pics (whoever the RPofBC had in the running; it's Clark's absence that's most notable). WAC there should be scads of pics for; pre-1963 BC Archives pics might do based on {{PD-Canada50}} or whatever the template is for government photographs whose copyright has expired (though, um, I think the 50 years is from the date of death of the photographer, though that may not apply on government-commissioned works?)Skookum1 (talk) 03:52, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

List of rainiest places in Canada = ?

The idea for this came to me while reading Squamish's article, where an uncited statement in the Climate section says it's one of the rainiest places in Canada; I amended that to "rainiest inhabited places" because of Mt Waddington, Mt Washington etc....I said in the edit comment that went with that that it needs citation as Ocean Falls and Whistler are wetter;....but I was wrong about Whistler, it gets (amazingly) less.....sure doesn't feel like it LOL. Ocean Falls is definitely more, I haven't looked at Bella Coola or Stewart or Kitimat, which are "right up there"...Hope or Sunshine Valley/Tashme may be....there are no climate stations (that I know of) at the heads of inlets like Toba or Bute...but enough exist that a ranking seems viable as a list; though maybe List of places in Canada with the highest precipitation maybe be a better title. Thoughts?Skookum1 (talk) 02:58, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

WP:IINFO, imnsho. Resolute 03:03, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
Hm, ya noting especially point no. 3 there....was already thinking this was WP:TRIVIA......it's just that various articles, including stateside, make such claims.....or "longest wooden wharf" or "longest covered bridge" or "tallest totem pole" (see Talk:Totem pole about that)......so have a look at Squamish, British Columbia#Climate and do we need to find a cite for that, then? Or just take out the brag? As noted, Ocean Falls is considerably wetter (oh ya is it ever) and I think Stewart and Kitimat are too, probably also Kitsault and Anyox.......Waddington and Mt Washington are in the 1000" range, by the way, so the "inhabited" qualifier was definitely needed.Skookum1 (talk) 03:09, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
We would definitely want a cite for that, yes. Resolute 03:13, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
But where to find it? And how verifiable? i.e. without reference to the other wetter places?Skookum1 (talk) 03:18, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
It would work, if you had a Weather and climate extremes in Canada article instead. (we have extreme points articles (further north/south/elevation/depression, etc) for various geographic regions) -- 65.94.76.126 (talk) 04:38, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
Hm, big list, when wind speed, air pressure, temperature etc as well as precipitation and snowfall .... too big a project for me right now.......but yah unless Resolute or others see a reason not to, seems a worthwhile undertaking.....Skookum1 (talk) 06:15, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
You can always start it in the WP:Article Incubator and invite people to contribute from here and WP:WEATHER. Or just create a stub, and ask others to help fill it in as we go (WP:NOTFINISHED) -- 65.94.76.126 (talk) 22:46, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
I have a source. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 20:33, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

template:Canadian Military Aerial Refueling Aircraft

{{Canadian Military Aerial Refueling Aircraft}} has been nominated for deletion. Also, isn't this mispelled? -- 65.94.76.126 (talk) 03:34, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes. It should be misspelled. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 20:29, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

CanParlbio template

I have reported a problem with this template that was created by a template merge with MPLinksCA. It now formats badly when it is used in a reference. --Big_iron (talk) 11:53, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Christian Colleges

Christian Colleges claims to be an article about North American Christian colleges, but the article is written from an US-only Protestant point of view, and the name is a global name, not a North American scoped name, so at the very least, needs some balancing for Canadian usage and the Catholic perspective, to conform with the current intro sentence. -- 65.94.76.126 (talk) 04:31, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Canadian politicians

many Canadian politician images are up for deletion, see Wikipedia:Possibly_unfree_files/2013_May_14#All_uploads_from_Imparo -- 65.94.76.126 (talk) 04:33, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

I and I noticed a few others are getting many many deletion notices over at commons because - to quote = Photographs taken after 1946 were copyright in Canada on the URAA date and thus are still copyright in the US. So this mean we have thousands and thousands of images that are coming up for deletion. For an example of a CANADIAN public domain image that is being deleted see File:Barbara Ann Scott City of Toronto Archives.jpg. We need to upload them here on Wikipedia or find thousands of images to replace all the ones being deleted. Is there a way to display images from Wikimedia Canada ?Moxy (talk) 21:30, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

YIKES that's a misreading of the URAA. The US Copyright office says that to be covered: "The work is not in the public domain in the eligible source country through expiration of the term of protection." That is, when its Canadian copyright expires its US protection ends. see http://www.copyright.gov/gatt.html circular 38 b online here Rjensen (talk) 02:36, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
Saw a few more today go up for deletion. Has something changed that {{PD-Canada}} is not valid?Moxy (talk) 20:20, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
we have a problem here see http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Stefan4#URAA_copyright_issue:_when_copyright_expires_in_Canada_it_also_expires_in_USA

--as always happened in copyright issues one editor out of a million takes an extreme personal interpretation and tries to apply it without a consensus. Rjensen (talk) 21:34, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

That's not the case here at all. Skeezix1000 (talk) 01:32, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
Is there a resident expert on copyright at commons we could bring this up to.--Moxy (talk) 22:21, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
I am no expert in copyright (I just play one on Wikimedia), but I agree with Stefan's explanation in that thread. The status of the work in Canada was relevant only in determining if the image was restored to copyright in the US. In fact, Rjensen's interpretation is specifically disputed by the examples in that circular 38b. China's laws (according to the Commons template are public domain 50 years after publication, but that circular states that the US copyright would exist until the 70th year after the creator dies. Resolute 22:44, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
Without getting into all of this dispute, I just want to say that this reading appears to be a misunderstanding. Copyright was restored (or maintained) in foreign works if they are still in protection in an "eligible source country". The US does not grant additional protections to works that public domain through expiration of terms in their own source country. So if the term on a Canadian-sourced work has expired in Canada, then the URAA did not grant protection here in the US to a work that is public domain in its own source country. --Lquilter (talk) 13:58, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump/Copyright may be able to sort it out.--Canoe1967 (talk) 23:03, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
There has to be something better then there village pump. This sort of things has been mentioned there in the past (about the UK) and got nowhere... like here the conversations were based on interpretations...need an expert not a notice board full of people taking guesses that result in 5 different ways of interpreting what it all means ...need real advice for people with real knowledge of the law. PS what does china have to do with this. --Moxy (talk) 23:30, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
I suggest that you ask User:Moonriddengirl.—Wavelength (talk) 23:34, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
" Section 514 of the URAA restores copyright protection in certain foreign works still under protection in a source country but in the public domain in the United States." (says US Federal Register). 1) was the work ever in the public domain in the US? no. there is a restoration of copyright protection but that does not say or imply it is copyright in the USA. Rjensen (talk) 00:16, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
  • You may also try User:Lquilter who says:" by occupation and training, I'm a librarian and information law attorney (specializing in fair use, the public domain, and other limitations on copyright law and other "intellectual property", xOttawahitech (talk) 15:17, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

None of this is new. For images claimed to be public domain, the images need to be PD in the U.S. whether uploaded on the Commons or here on Wikipedia (on the Commons the image also needs to be PD in the source country). Images that were still under copyright in Canada on January 1, 1996 (the URAA date for Canada) are still considered copyrighted in the U.S., even if the copyright subsequently expired in Canada. This policy has been consistently applied for years (when I was a newbie on Wikipedia in 2005 I quickly learned the "pre-1946 Canadian photographs = generally okay" rule of thumb), although such images were not being deleted on the Commons for a period of two years or so as there was a legal challenge in the U.S. to the restoration of copyright of images that had once been PD in the U.S. (that challenge was lost). Skeezix1000 (talk) 01:32, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Try: Wikipedia:Media copyright questions?--Canoe1967 (talk) 02:09, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
We should probably look to change the PD-Canada template at Commons to note that, while Canadian photographs are PD in Canada if taken before Jan 1, 1949, the American URAA limits uploads to images that predate Jan 1, 1946. Resolute 02:23, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
Agree with Resolute - need to make it more clear. I do find it odd that donated images in the public domain in Canada can get new copyright status in the USA out of the blue ... but that's what people are saying. This copyright fiasco is just one of the many reasons I dont deal with many images. Lucky the 3 Barbara Ann Scott images in-question can be replace - my was Barbara Ann Scott and she has many family images and I will just scan some next time I am at my sisters house. I was certain when I uploaded those images all would be fine as per the Andrews - Newton donation to the archives.Moxy (talk) 02:35, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
I'm not sure that fiasco is the right word, nor was anything "out of the blue". While you are understandly frustrated, content on Wikipedia needs to either be freely-licensed or public domain in the U.S. (where the servers are located). While limiting, this is not a new requirement, nor is the fact that material that does not meet this requirement is routinely deleted. As for the family images, it's not 100% clear from your note, but are these among the ones donated to Ottawa Archives. If so, the press release says "transferring legal ownership to the City Archives" - does that include intellectual property rights? If yes, then the Ottawa Archives needs to consent to the images being uploaded here. If no, then when you upload them add a note saying that you are the legal heir of the family member who took the photo - that will avoid problems in the future. --Skeezix1000 (talk) 17:40, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
The rule only applies when the item was PD in the US in 1996. I suggest it is very rare that a photo of Canadian origin and copyright was PD in the US in 1996. So far in none of the cases involved here has any evidence been given of the PD status in USA in 1996. Rjensen (talk) 03:34, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
No. The question is whether it was PD in Canada in 1996. If yes, then it is copyright in the U.S. even if the image was PD in the US at one time and/or has subsequently become PD in Canada. --Skeezix1000 (talk) 17:40, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
Not much we can do they are going to delete the whole category as see... here with no notices or nothing. Very disappointing to see no effort to help Wikipedia its self. Just look at the poor article now :-(Moxy (talk)
  • Moxy, can you please elaborate - what exactly is your concern:
  • Is it the deletion of one (or more) particular file?
  • Is it about one particular article?
  • Is it the process of File deletions on Wikipedia?
  • Is it the process of deletions in general on Wikipedia?
  • Is it the fact that editors pay little attention to how their actions impact other editors?
  • Something else? XOttawahitech (talk) 15:52, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Legislative Assembly of British Columbia

There's a problem with Legislative Assembly of British Columbia as of last night, which I'm having trouble locating. Specifically, the adding of the new legislative session initiated by last night's election is causing the table in the Parliaments section to incorrectly display the leadership information — Adrian Dix is now depicted as leading the opposition only in the new session, and not at all in the one that just ended.

But the problem is that as far as I can tell, all of the rowspan codes are entered correctly and I can't figure out why they're displaying wrong — frex, the previous session and Christy Clark are both coded as rowspan=3 but are only spanning two rows in view mode, and Dix is coded as rowspan=2 but is only spanning one.

Can anybody assist in finding the problem? Thanks. Bearcat (talk) 20:55, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

How about that? I think it didn't work because the rowspans for the Liberal party colours and Christy Clark and Adrian Dix were all out of alignment. But that's only a guess. Resolute 23:21, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Could we get a spoken file for Laura Secord?

Would anyone with a great speaking voice and audio skills like to create a spoken file for the Laura Secord article? It was recently made a Featured Article, and I'm going to submit it for "Today's Featured Article" for 23 June 2013, the 200th anniversary of her famous walk. It'd be awesome if someone with a much nicer speaking voice than my own could provide a spoken version of the article by then, when, as we are all aware, billions of Canadians will flood the Wikipedia servers to learn all the sordid details of the infamous and beloved Chocolate Lady. Curly Turkey (gobble) 06:12, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

army units for redirection?

See WT:MILHIST where several Canadian Army units are being discussed, with possible redirection to the larger organizational unit.-- 65.94.76.126 (talk) 06:57, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Four Corners (Canada)

Couldn't help but notice the lack of Canadians at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Four Corners (Canada). 117Avenue (talk) 21:48, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

thanks for the heads-up, that article and its parent Quadripoint are both original research and both are neologisms; "Four Corners" is a famous place, this is not. Someone's trying to make it so, though...Skookum1 (talk) 02:27, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

aboriginal cat/article naming issues re proposal for a set of proper guidelines

Please see my notes at the Aboriginal peoples portal talkpage.Skookum1 (talk) 10:39, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

font

WP Canada Logo-

the font on this logo sucks Qwh (talk) 23:27, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

File:Amanda Todd - 01.jpg

File:Amanda Todd - 01.jpg's appropriateness is under discussion at WP:PUF -- 65.94.76.126 (talk) 02:40, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Merge of Canada under British rule (1763-1867) and BNA articles

I just added mergeto/from templates to Canada under British rule (1763-1867) and British North America articles, as they cover the same content. Merge discussion is on the BNA page, which I think is the better title.Skookum1 (talk) 02:34, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Category:People from Chilliwack re Steven Point

The band he's from is within the City of Chilliwack but not governed by it; he was never a voting citizen of the muni so far as I know. At the moment, various IRs are in Category:Neighbourhoods in Chilliwack and I'm not sure they should be as they're not governed by the municipality at all.....but if Point is to be included, there are other notable Sto:lo in Category:Sto:lo people, I think, who are also from Chilliwack. Same issue with many other notable FN people who might be in "people from" categories for other BC cities/towns/RDs.Skookum1 (talk) 03:32, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Colour of weatherboxes in Canada

Main conversation: Template talk:Weather box# RfC - Colours to be used in the weather box

Given that the discussion for the colours used in the weatherbox is likely to result in a deadlock. This would affect only weatherboxes in Canada. Recently, a large number of weatherboxes that used to have green colours are now reverted back to the default colour of blue. The proposal is that the colours of the weatherboxes should be turned to green? Currently, I do not like using blue for precipitation because this will cause blending of the blue colours from the record lows, precip/rain/snow days and secondly, it gives the false impression of a chilly climate which is not true since summers here are warm to hot. Furthermore, I see green colours more desirable than blue because except for polar and subarctic climates, precipitation contributes to the growth of plants and makes the landscape green. Should the colours be changed to green? I need outside opinion and then I can apply the changes.

Example

Climate data for Calgary International Airport (blue colours)
Month Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Year
Record high humidex 15.6 21.9 21.7 27.2 31.6 33.3 36.9 36.0 32.9 28.7 22.2 19.4 36.9
Record high °C (°F) 16.5
(61.7) 		22.6
(72.7) 		22.8
(73.0) 		29.4
(84.9) 		32.4
(90.3) 		35.0
(95.0) 		36.1
(97.0) 		35.6
(96.1) 		33.3
(91.9) 		29.4
(84.9) 		22.8
(73.0) 		19.5
(67.1) 		36.1
(97.0)
Mean daily maximum °C (°F) −2.8
(27.0) 		−0.1
(31.8) 		4.0
(39.2) 		11.3
(52.3) 		16.4
(61.5) 		20.2
(68.4) 		22.9
(73.2) 		22.5
(72.5) 		17.6
(63.7) 		12.1
(53.8) 		2.8
(37.0) 		−1.3
(29.7) 		10.5
(50.9)
Daily mean °C (°F) −8.9
(16.0) 		−6.1
(21.0) 		−1.9
(28.6) 		4.6
(40.3) 		9.8
(49.6) 		13.8
(56.8) 		16.2
(61.2) 		15.6
(60.1) 		10.8
(51.4) 		5.4
(41.7) 		−3.1
(26.4) 		−7.4
(18.7) 		4.1
(39.4)
Mean daily minimum °C (°F) −15.1
(4.8) 		−12.0
(10.4) 		−7.8
(18.0) 		−2.1
(28.2) 		3.1
(37.6) 		7.3
(45.1) 		9.4
(48.9) 		8.6
(47.5) 		4.0
(39.2) 		−1.4
(29.5) 		−8.9
(16.0) 		−13.4
(7.9) 		−2.4
(27.7)
Record low °C (°F) −44.4
(−47.9) 		−45.0
(−49.0) 		−37.2
(−35.0) 		−30.0
(−22.0) 		−16.7
(1.9) 		−3.3
(26.1) 		−0.6
(30.9) 		−3.2
(26.2) 		−13.3
(8.1) 		−25.7
(−14.3) 		−35.0
(−31.0) 		−42.8
(−45.0) 		−45.0
(−49.0)
Record low wind chill −52.1 −52.6 −44.7 −37.1 −23.7 −5.8 −4.1 −5.2 −12.5 −34.3 −47.9 −55.1 −55.1
Average precipitation mm (inches) 11.6
(0.46) 		8.8
(0.35) 		17.4
(0.69) 		23.9
(0.94) 		60.3
(2.37) 		79.8
(3.14) 		67.9
(2.67) 		58.8
(2.31) 		45.7
(1.80) 		13.9
(0.55) 		12.3
(0.48) 		12.2
(0.48) 		412.6
(16.24)
Average rainfall mm (inches) 0.2
(0.01) 		0.1
(0.00) 		1.7
(0.07) 		11.5
(0.45) 		51.4
(2.02) 		79.8
(3.14) 		67.9
(2.67) 		58.7
(2.31) 		41.7
(1.64) 		6.2
(0.24) 		1.2
(0.05) 		0.3
(0.01) 		320.6
(12.62)
Average snowfall cm (inches) 17.7
(7.0) 		13.4
(5.3) 		21.9
(8.6) 		15.4
(6.1) 		9.7
(3.8) 		0.0
(0.0) 		0.0
(0.0) 		0.0
(0.0) 		4.8
(1.9) 		9.9
(3.9) 		16.4
(6.5) 		17.6
(6.9) 		126.7
(49.9)
Average precipitation days (≥ 0.2 mm) 9.0 6.9 9.3 9.0 11.3 13.4 13.0 11.0 9.3 6.3 7.6 7.4 113.6
Average rainy days (≥ 0.2 mm) 0.2 0.2 1.1 4.4 10.5 13.4 13.0 11.0 8.7 3.6 1.0 0.4 67.5
Average snowy days (≥ 0.2 cm) 9.7 7.6 9.4 6.3 2.2 0.0 0.0 0.1 1.6 3.8 7.8 8.2 56.8
Average relative humidity (%) 56.6 54.3 51.9 40.9 42.8 45.8 45.7 44.8 45.1 42.9 54.6 56.1 48.5
Mean monthly sunshine hours 117.4 141.4 177.6 218.8 253.7 280.3 314.9 281.9 207.7 180.5 123.9 107.4 2,405.3
Source: Environment Canada
Climate data for Calgary International Airport (green colours)
Month Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Year
Record high humidex 15.6 21.9 21.7 27.2 31.6 33.3 36.9 36.0 32.9 28.7 22.2 19.4 36.9
Record high °C (°F) 16.5
(61.7) 		22.6
(72.7) 		22.8
(73.0) 		29.4
(84.9) 		32.4
(90.3) 		35.0
(95.0) 		36.1
(97.0) 		35.6
(96.1) 		33.3
(91.9) 		29.4
(84.9) 		22.8
(73.0) 		19.5
(67.1) 		36.1
(97.0)
Mean daily maximum °C (°F) −2.8
(27.0) 		−0.1
(31.8) 		4.0
(39.2) 		11.3
(52.3) 		16.4
(61.5) 		20.2
(68.4) 		22.9
(73.2) 		22.5
(72.5) 		17.6
(63.7) 		12.1
(53.8) 		2.8
(37.0) 		−1.3
(29.7) 		10.5
(50.9)
Daily mean °C (°F) −8.9
(16.0) 		−6.1
(21.0) 		−1.9
(28.6) 		4.6
(40.3) 		9.8
(49.6) 		13.8
(56.8) 		16.2
(61.2) 		15.6
(60.1) 		10.8
(51.4) 		5.4
(41.7) 		−3.1
(26.4) 		−7.4
(18.7) 		4.1
(39.4)
Mean daily minimum °C (°F) −15.1
(4.8) 		−12.0
(10.4) 		−7.8
(18.0) 		−2.1
(28.2) 		3.1
(37.6) 		7.3
(45.1) 		9.4
(48.9) 		8.6
(47.5) 		4.0
(39.2) 		−1.4
(29.5) 		−8.9
(16.0) 		−13.4
(7.9) 		−2.4
(27.7)
Record low °C (°F) −44.4
(−47.9) 		−45.0
(−49.0) 		−37.2
(−35.0) 		−30.0
(−22.0) 		−16.7
(1.9) 		−3.3
(26.1) 		−0.6
(30.9) 		−3.2
(26.2) 		−13.3
(8.1) 		−25.7
(−14.3) 		−35.0
(−31.0) 		−42.8
(−45.0) 		−45.0
(−49.0)
Record low wind chill −52.1 −52.6 −44.7 −37.1 −23.7 −5.8 −4.1 −5.2 −12.5 −34.3 −47.9 −55.1 −55.1
Average precipitation mm (inches) 11.6
(0.46) 		8.8
(0.35) 		17.4
(0.69) 		23.9
(0.94) 		60.3
(2.37) 		79.8
(3.14) 		67.9
(2.67) 		58.8
(2.31) 		45.7
(1.80) 		13.9
(0.55) 		12.3
(0.48) 		12.2
(0.48) 		412.6
(16.24)
Average rainfall mm (inches) 0.2
(0.01) 		0.1
(0.00) 		1.7
(0.07) 		11.5
(0.45) 		51.4
(2.02) 		79.8
(3.14) 		67.9
(2.67) 		58.7
(2.31) 		41.7
(1.64) 		6.2
(0.24) 		1.2
(0.05) 		0.3
(0.01) 		320.6
(12.62)
Average snowfall cm (inches) 17.7
(7.0) 		13.4
(5.3) 		21.9
(8.6) 		15.4
(6.1) 		9.7
(3.8) 		0.0
(0.0) 		0.0
(0.0) 		0.0
(0.0) 		4.8
(1.9) 		9.9
(3.9) 		16.4
(6.5) 		17.6
(6.9) 		126.7
(49.9)
Average precipitation days (≥ 0.2 mm) 9.0 6.9 9.3 9.0 11.3 13.4 13.0 11.0 9.3 6.3 7.6 7.4 113.6
Average rainy days (≥ 0.2 mm) 0.2 0.2 1.1 4.4 10.5 13.4 13.0 11.0 8.7 3.6 1.0 0.4 67.5
Average snowy days (≥ 0.2 cm) 9.7 7.6 9.4 6.3 2.2 0.0 0.0 0.1 1.6 3.8 7.8 8.2 56.8
Average relative humidity (%) 56.6 54.3 51.9 40.9 42.8 45.8 45.7 44.8 45.1 42.9 54.6 56.1 48.5
Mean monthly sunshine hours 117.4 141.4 177.6 218.8 253.7 280.3 314.9 281.9 207.7 180.5 123.9 107.4 2,405.3
Source: Environment Canada

Ssbbplayer (talk) 16:29, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

I think both are confusing, but the green even more so - and that is not because of the green itself, but because the snowfall below is blue as well. I think it is a fair idea to use different colours to differentiate between temperature (ranging from blue to red) and precipitation (ranging from white to green seems okay to me - though I haven't read the previous discussions) - but if so, then even the snowfall should be changed, since my first impression was to wonder what the hell that green was supposed to mean placed in the middle of a whole lot of temperature data. It wasn't until I stepped back and looked at the labels that I realized the bottom blue rows were discussing snowfall instead of temperature. Resolute 16:42, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
Would changing the snowfall line to green reduce this confusion then? Ssbbplayer (talk) 16:50, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
It would for me, yes. Resolute 16:52, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
So would it be appropriate to perform this on other weatherboxes because like this one, other weatherboxes (Toronto, Winnipeg, Edmonton, Quebec City) have the same issue as this one when blue colours were reintroduced? Ssbbplayer (talk) 16:56, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
I can only speak for myself there, but personally, I think it would be valuable to have all of the precipitation rows use different colours than the temperature rows. But while I personally would support that, it would require consensus to change. Resolute 16:59, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
I know that a consensus is required for a change but being involved in the discussion on the colours about it, it feels like this will lead to a deadlock. Right now, I am pretty sure that standardizing weatherboxes with all having the same colour schemes is not desirable, given the diversity of different climates around the globe (one size does not fit all). I prefer to try to get a consensus here and would only affect it in Canada because all weatherboxes are from Environment Canada, so they have the same amount of data and issues regarding the colours. This may not be the issue in other countries though. Thanks for your opinion on it. I appreciate it. Perhaps other users can voice their opinions on this. Ssbbplayer (talk) 17:04, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
I agree with Resolute that it's not the specific colour itself that is problematic, but reusing the same colours to signify both variations in temperature and precipitation, and so it would be less confusing to use distinct colours for the two purposes. This could mean that rain and snow reuse the same spectrum of colours, or perhaps different sets of hues could be used for the two different types of precipitation, both of which would be clearly distinguishable from the colours used for temperature. I wouldn't suggest any direct relationship to climate, though of course the proposal could use cooler colours for snow and warmer colours for rain. isaacl (talk) 17:23, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
I would agree with that statement. Blending was and is a major problem for the weatherboxes in Canada. I was surprised that most (except for Vancouver) used default colouring and no one changed it for a long time. You can also post your thoughts on that discussion link below. There are not enough opinions from other users and any thoughts are welcome. Ssbbplayer (talk) 19:18, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
I skimmed through the conversation rapidly and for better or worse, it seems many editors are concerned with matching the colours to perceptions of the climate, or their personal colour preferences. (While undoubtedly there is an aspect of subjective taste, the distinctiveness of colours used for different properties can be measured objectively.) So unfortunately I think your prediction of a deadlock may come to pass. isaacl (talk) 19:30, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
Could you clarifiy that a little bit? I know that most users use colours to the perceptions of the climate but the rest sounds a bit confusing. Ssbbplayer (talk) 19:33, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
An example of a personal colour preference is how some editors say they don't like green for snow, without providing an additional explanation. There are measures of the contrast between colours (the W3C's formulae are the best-known amongst web developers; here is a colour contrast evaluation tool that uses the W3C's specification. (It's not perfect, but it is objective.) Ideally, different colour schemes with reasonably good colour contrast would be used for different properties, to minimize the opportunity for confusion. isaacl (talk) 20:19, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
Sounds like a good idea. That way, it is less disputable and controversial. I will post it on the discussion page in that link below. I like the way how it is going so far. It is important as people cannot just visit the link and look at it there because for example, some weatherboxes have dead links to the Environment Canada website, which was a huge problem in 2012 where most weatherboxes such as Toronto, Winnipeg had dead links. Furthermore, most of the climate data is difficult to find because I only get low quality information if I google it(and some are in a foreign language) so it is best to avoid confusion in the weatherboxes here. Ssbbplayer (talk) 20:36, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
While I agree that precipitation colours should be changed to be different from temperature to make them distinguishable, I do agree that snow colours should also be the same colour as the precip/rain lines since it is a type of precipitation as well. It will not cause the blending of the lines, only if the same colours were used for temp, precip/rain/snow and precip/rain/snow days. I am okay with blue snow lines but I prefer it to be green to make it consistent and also because it is less confusing for other editors as well. Ssbbplayer (talk) 13:32, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
Comment In this case, since most users are concerned about the blending and not the colour itself, I prefer changing the existing weatherboxes with blue precip colours to green colours to avoid this problem. Furthermore, I prefer that most weatherboxes in Canada follow this colour scheme of green colours shown above as it is easier to compare them (for example in USA, most weatherboxes use green colours) instead of some using blue and some using green (thus avoiding the issues of one-size-fits all and pointless edit wars). The weatherboxes that will be affected will be Toronto, Hamilton, Winnipeg, Calgary, Edmonton, Windsor, London, etc. If a lot of users agree to this colour change. Then the changes will occur. Ssbbplayer (talk) 14:48, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
The vote on the color schemes/styles to be used in the climate project is about to occur. Please vote. Even if you have never edited the climate section before, more opinions is more welcome in order to reach a consensus. Ssbbplayer (talk) 15:17, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
While reading through the discussion another proposal is to use violet colours for temperatures below freezing but keep the precipitation colours the same. My question is which one is better? The violet colour scheme or green precipitation colours? Ssbbplayer (talk) 15:22, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
Climate data for Calgary International Airport (violet colours)
Month Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Year
Mean daily minimum °C (°F) −15.1
(4.8) 		−12.0
(10.4) 		−7.8
(18.0) 		−2.1
(28.2) 		3.1
(37.6) 		7.3
(45.1) 		9.4
(48.9) 		8.6
(47.5) 		4.0
(39.2) 		−1.4
(29.5) 		−8.9
(16.0) 		−13.4
(7.9) 		−2.4
(27.7)
Record low °C (°F) −44.4
(−47.9) 		−45.0
(−49.0) 		−37.2
(−35.0) 		−30.0
(−22.0) 		−16.7
(1.9) 		−3.3
(26.1) 		−0.6
(30.9) 		−3.2
(26.2) 		−13.3
(8.1) 		−25.7
(−14.3) 		−35.0
(−31.0) 		−42.8
(−45.0) 		−45.0
(−49.0)
Record low wind chill −52.1 −52.6 −44.7 −37.1 −23.7 −5.8 −4.1 −5.2 −12.5 −34.3 −47.9 −55.1 −55.1
Average precipitation mm (inches) 11.6
(0.46) 		8.8
(0.35) 		17.4
(0.69) 		23.9
(0.94) 		60.3
(2.37) 		79.8
(3.14) 		67.9
(2.67) 		58.8
(2.31) 		45.7
(1.80) 		13.9
(0.55) 		12.3
(0.48) 		12.2
(0.48) 		412.6
(16.24)
Average rainfall mm (inches) 0.2
(0.01) 		0.1
(0.00) 		1.7
(0.07) 		11.5
(0.45) 		51.4
(2.02) 		79.8
(3.14) 		67.9
(2.67) 		58.7
(2.31) 		41.7
(1.64) 		6.2
(0.24) 		1.2
(0.05) 		0.3
(0.01) 		320.6
(12.62)
Average snowfall cm (inches) 17.7
(7.0) 		13.4
(5.3) 		21.9
(8.6) 		15.4
(6.1) 		9.7
(3.8) 		0.0
(0.0) 		0.0
(0.0) 		0.0
(0.0) 		4.8
(1.9) 		9.9
(3.9) 		16.4
(6.5) 		17.6
(6.9) 		126.7
(49.9)
Average precipitation days (≥ 0.2 mm) 9.0 6.9 9.3 9.0 11.3 13.4 13.0 11.0 9.3 6.3 7.6 7.4 113.6
Average rainy days (≥ 0.2 mm) 0.2 0.2 1.1 4.4 10.5 13.4 13.0 11.0 8.7 3.6 1.0 0.4 67.5
Average snowy days (≥ 0.2 cm) 9.7 7.6 9.4 6.3 2.2 0.0 0.0 0.1 1.6 3.8 7.8 8.2 56.8
Average relative humidity (%) 56.6 54.3 51.9 40.9 42.8 45.8 45.7 44.8 45.1 42.9 54.6 56.1 48.5
Mean monthly sunshine hours 117.4 141.4 177.6 218.8 253.7 280.3 314.9 281.9 207.7 180.5 123.9 107.4 2,405.3
Source: Environment Canada
Climate data for Calgary International Airport (green colours)
Month Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Year
Record high humidex 15.6 21.9 21.7 27.2 31.6 33.3 36.9 36.0 32.9 28.7 22.2 19.4 36.9
Record high °C (°F) 16.5
(61.7) 		22.6
(72.7) 		22.8
(73.0) 		29.4
(84.9) 		32.4
(90.3) 		35.0
(95.0) 		36.1
(97.0) 		35.6
(96.1) 		33.3
(91.9) 		29.4
(84.9) 		22.8
(73.0) 		19.5
(67.1) 		36.1
(97.0)
Mean daily maximum °C (°F) −2.8
(27.0) 		−0.1
(31.8) 		4.0
(39.2) 		11.3
(52.3) 		16.4
(61.5) 		20.2
(68.4) 		22.9
(73.2) 		22.5
(72.5) 		17.6
(63.7) 		12.1
(53.8) 		2.8
(37.0) 		−1.3
(29.7) 		10.5
(50.9)
Daily mean °C (°F) −8.9
(16.0) 		−6.1
(21.0) 		−1.9
(28.6) 		4.6
(40.3) 		9.8
(49.6) 		13.8
(56.8) 		16.2
(61.2) 		15.6
(60.1) 		10.8
(51.4) 		5.4
(41.7) 		−3.1
(26.4) 		−7.4
(18.7) 		4.1
(39.4)
Mean daily minimum °C (°F) −15.1
(4.8) 		−12.0
(10.4) 		−7.8
(18.0) 		−2.1
(28.2) 		3.1
(37.6) 		7.3
(45.1) 		9.4
(48.9) 		8.6
(47.5) 		4.0
(39.2) 		−1.4
(29.5) 		−8.9
(16.0) 		−13.4
(7.9) 		−2.4
(27.7)
Record low °C (°F) −44.4
(−47.9) 		−45.0
(−49.0) 		−37.2
(−35.0) 		−30.0
(−22.0) 		−16.7
(1.9) 		−3.3
(26.1) 		−0.6
(30.9) 		−3.2
(26.2) 		−13.3
(8.1) 		−25.7
(−14.3) 		−35.0
(−31.0) 		−42.8
(−45.0) 		−45.0
(−49.0)
Record low wind chill −52.1 −52.6 −44.7 −37.1 −23.7 −5.8 −4.1 −5.2 −12.5 −34.3 −47.9 −55.1 −55.1
Average precipitation mm (inches) 11.6
(0.46) 		8.8
(0.35) 		17.4
(0.69) 		23.9
(0.94) 		60.3
(2.37) 		79.8
(3.14) 		67.9
(2.67) 		58.8
(2.31) 		45.7
(1.80) 		13.9
(0.55) 		12.3
(0.48) 		12.2
(0.48) 		412.6
(16.24)
Average rainfall mm (inches) 0.2
(0.01) 		0.1
(0.00) 		1.7
(0.07) 		11.5
(0.45) 		51.4
(2.02) 		79.8
(3.14) 		67.9
(2.67) 		58.7
(2.31) 		41.7
(1.64) 		6.2
(0.24) 		1.2
(0.05) 		0.3
(0.01) 		320.6
(12.62)
Average snowfall cm (inches) 17.7
(7.0) 		13.4
(5.3) 		21.9
(8.6) 		15.4
(6.1) 		9.7
(3.8) 		0.0
(0.0) 		0.0
(0.0) 		0.0
(0.0) 		4.8
(1.9) 		9.9
(3.9) 		16.4
(6.5) 		17.6
(6.9) 		126.7
(49.9)
Average precipitation days (≥ 0.2 mm) 9.0 6.9 9.3 9.0 11.3 13.4 13.0 11.0 9.3 6.3 7.6 7.4 113.6
Average rainy days (≥ 0.2 mm) 0.2 0.2 1.1 4.4 10.5 13.4 13.0 11.0 8.7 3.6 1.0 0.4 67.5
Average snowy days (≥ 0.2 cm) 9.7 7.6 9.4 6.3 2.2 0.0 0.0 0.1 1.6 3.8 7.8 8.2 56.8
Average relative humidity (%) 56.6 54.3 51.9 40.9 42.8 45.8 45.7 44.8 45.1 42.9 54.6 56.1 48.5
Mean monthly sunshine hours 117.4 141.4 177.6 218.8 253.7 280.3 314.9 281.9 207.7 180.5 123.9 107.4 2,405.3
Source: Environment Canada

Distances between places - Newmarket, Ontario

I'm trying to find consensus on the question of how to determine how far apart towns are. Please join the discussion here. Thanks, PKT(alk) 16:24, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Since that discussion is generally applicable, it should be archived to WikiProject Canadian Geography's talk archive as well, when it concludes. -- 65.94.76.126 (talk) 06:14, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Issue on demographics tables and help with table on Skeena-Queen Charlotte Regional District

the 40% aboriginal population in this RD led me to revise the demographic table someone just added to this article in the "Description" section to place the Aboriginal population above the Visible Minority section.....which came out fine until I deleted the "zero" population rows like Koreans......and now the table is jumbled, hoping someone can fix that, I've tried but no luck so far.....and NB for RDs and towns and other regional breakdowns of population that have significant aboriginal populations, they're much more relevant than the tiny trickle of visible minorities and this should maybe be a standard....Demographics content on Canadian articles, as I've commented before, nearly always only has the Visible minorities content, and incorrectly such tables have aboriginal populations included, even though they're not officially visible minorities....the racial/ethnic bias implicit in such tables, i.e. that other demographics information isn't included, age/income and origin and such, remains an ongoing issue across Canadian articles IMO.Skookum1 (talk) 07:31, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

OK, well I screwed up another one on Northern Rockies Regional Municipality#Demographics but while I could revert I feel it's (a) necessary to take out the zero population rows and (b) that Aboriginal populations should be placed first, or "white" should. The use of "white" and "First Nations" isn't in the sources, where European Canadian and "North American Indian" are what's used....shouldn't WP:MOSFOLLOW apply in all of these, and not OR terms......in cases like Vancouver, also, not all people putting "North American Indian" are necessarily from Canadian First Nations, too.....Skookum1 (talk) 07:41, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
For Vismin tables, we should be including Aboriginal as a separate category by subtracting that number from the non vismin people. What's left is in reality just white people, although I can understand the desire to not use that term ("Non visible minority nor aboriginal"?). -- Earl Andrew - talk 11:59, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

See WT:MILHIST where a discussion on CF external links is going on -- 65.94.76.126 (talk) 05:05, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Need a reviewer who knows Canadian artists

I am a participant in Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation.

The editor Hobbsgal (talk · contribs) has contributed several articles about Canadian visual artists but I am having difficulty judging their WP:Notability because I am not familiar enough with what makes an artist "notable" in the field and locale of the artists in question. If you guys could add something like

{{afc comment|I came her from Wikipedia talk:Canadian Wikipedians' notice board. This person [is, is not, might be - pick one] notable enough to be in Wikipedia. [If it's "yes" please add some comment, preferably with a WP:reliable source reference if you have one].}}

to each of these submissions, it would help a lot:

This editor has already created or significantly contributed to articles about other artists. If you are interested in Canadian artists, consider reading about Althea Thauberger, Arnaud Maggs, and Ian Carr-Harris.

On behalf of everyone at WP:WPAFC, thanks. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 23:13, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Battle of Passchendaele

There's a notice at WT:MILHIST about a dispute at talk:Battle of Passchendaele -- 65.94.76.126 (talk) 06:58, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Duplicate BLP needs merge or redirect

Talk:Nicholas Ribich created 2008, existing article 2002. In ictu oculi (talk) 10:14, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

The original article is at Nicholas Ribic

Patronage article has little CanCon

In the one passage about Canada, the Senate, of all things, wasn't mentioned at all until I added it; for a country whose political establishment is based on patronage, not having much in this article, unlike others featured, is kinda strange....I have my reservations about expanding it...partly from risk of nausea. Patronage#Politics.Skookum1 (talk) 15:52, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

CfR re "on Vancouver Island" vs "in Vancouver Island"

Please see Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2013_May_30#.22in.22_Vancouver_Island_categories.Skookum1 (talk) 04:54, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

"Infobox Native American leader" being placed on Canadian articles

Please see Template_talk:Infobox_Native_American_leader#current_title_and_.22tribe.22_not_suitable_for_Canadian_FN_articles. As I suggest there, the solution that may be easiest is to create a Canadian version {{Infobox Canadian aboriginal leader}} (so that Metis and Inuit can be included) and that word "Tribe" just doesn't look right on Annie York.Skookum1 (talk) 03:16, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

I was the person who led the charge to get rid of the horrible title "American Indian Chief", and have previously expressed support for an infobox otherwise identical to Native American leader be created for Canadian First Nations/aboriginal leaders. I have no position on what it's called, but support the concept. I had previously suggested something along the lines of "North American indigenous leader" to cover both groups, but I really have no strong feelings there, either. I think someone could create the infobox by a simple duplication of the Native American leader one, just replacing the words "Native American" with whatever Canadian term is preferred. Montanabw(talk) 17:29, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

CfR re hyphens in "FOO culture" ethnic categories

I thought the hyphenization thing was all done and over with; but it seems that category "standardization" missed one hierarchy, see Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2013_May_25#Category:Norwegian-Canadian_culture. The argument that "Norwegian Canadian" is a noun construction vs "Norwegian-Canadian" is adjectival, or is it the other way around, just doesn't make sense to me; apparently it's the whole "FOO culture" category that's mandating this....was it missed when the ethno categories were changed from hyphenated forms to unhyphenated?Skookum1 (talk) 03:20, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Problematic dab page re Marxist-Leninist Party of Canada

Please see Marxist-Leninist Party of Canada re there being a separate article with a double set of parentheses for "(Manitoba)". Do these really need to be separate articles. And I remember their old name Communist Party of Canada (Marxist-Leninist). If there's no separate party name for Manitoba provincial electoral activity, is a second article really warranted?Skookum1 (talk) 03:56, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Oh, is that CPC-ML page a duplicate or is that a different group? Factionalism gets so confusing. The hatnote on that page isn't exactly POV but should be in better wiki-style I think.Skookum1 (talk) 04:00, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

RS / notability re Erwin Singh Braich

links and discussion, I've asked at the OR Noticeboard but am getting only one response opining that he's not notable. He's Canada's richest Sikh and the world's second-richest and embroiled in a series of legal cases for the last ten years....the Sun and other media have nothing on him because of a BCSC publication ban. Is because a court has ruled all about him should be shrouded in secrecy really a way to decide he's not notable? There's more could be said; follow the cite links in that discussion, and note what they are. His name appeared as a redlink on the Abbotsford, British Columbia page and I immediately knew it should stay, I was looking up information to build at least a stub but it's problematic as what reliable sources there are are now available only as PDFs on blog cites, and PRWeb and PRNewsWire are UGC though presented in the Seattle P-I, The Link and other reliable sources as hard copy.Skookum1 (talk) 08:07, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Seems notable to me. I can help in a couple of weeks with it.--Canoe1967 (talk) 22:10, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Lauchlin Currie

Lauchlin Currie. This article has contradictions about his citizenship and spy accusations. It seems he may be one of our greatest economists but some editors don't want him painted that way. I am going on a little holiday so I won't have time to fight edit wars with it for the next two weeks.--Canoe1967 (talk) 22:10, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Fast Ferry Scandal

FYI, a notice showed up at CFD that someone wants to merge Fast Ferry Scandal into the ship-class article -- 65.94.76.126 (talk) 06:50, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Mario Bernardi

With the death yesterday of longtime National Arts Centre Orchestra conductor Mario Bernardi, I've devoted a bit of time to cleaning up his article today, but there's one problem that I want to ask if anyone can assist with. Specifically, the article listed a "see also" to S.O.S. Noronha, a French film from 1957 which lists a Mario Bernardi in its cast — however, I cannot find any properly sourced indication as to whether this was really the same person or not. Is anybody able to shed any light on this? Bearcat (talk) 19:33, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

suggestion re unref'd articles (and the defunct {{bcgnis}} template(s)

Noticing many articles where basic cites are easily obtainable from related articles e.g. Larry Giovando and/or official sources (in that case, or more for federal representatives, from official bios already online, though most of that would be from the Historical elections BC Elections page/pdf's), just a suggestion that a new section/page be started for "articles needing references" related to this WikiProject. References for somewhere like Clayburn for example, or any official named community or geographic object, can be had from BC Names (formerly BCGNIS) and CGNDB. Also in re BCGNIS, it's a defunct template and name and should either be done or a {{BC Names}} template established. Clicking on a {{bcgnis}} reference will now go to a 404, same with the cumbersome {{cite bcgnis}} template.Skookum1 (talk) 09:51, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Any theatre buffs?

If there are any theatre buffs kicking around CWNB looking for a project to tackle, I've got a suggestion for you. There are two parts to this one.

  1. Firstly, some but not all of the individual awards presented by the Dora Mavor Moore Awards already have separate articles listing their winners and nominees — while the others which don't yet have articles exist as redirects back to the main article. So the awards that don't have articles yet need to be started.
  2. Secondly, while the Doras' website offers complete winner lists all the way back to 1980, complete lists of all the nominees are only available back to 2005. Such articles on Wikipedia should, of course, list all the nominees whenever possible, rather than just being lists of the winners alone — but while I didn't exactly do a detailed or comprehensive search, a quick "first couple of pages" peek on Google didn't immediately turn up any sources for the nominees prior to 2005. So if anybody already knows where additional sources can be found for the nominees prior to 2005, or is willing to hit a library or a news database to track them down the oldfangled way, the older nominee lists would be a valuable addition to the articles.

My interest in theatre is mostly casual, for the record, in that I'm generally more knowledgeable about playwrights than I am about actors, directors, designers or other theatre people — which is why I'm suggesting it here as a possible project rather than directly taking it all on myself. However, I am willing to provide some assistance if anybody wants to have a go at it. That said, I have already beefed up Dora Mavor Moore Award for Outstanding Performance by a Female in a Principal Role – Play, Dora Mavor Moore Award for Outstanding Performance by a Male in a Principal Role – Play and Dora Mavor Moore Award for Outstanding New Play as far as I can with the PDFs on the Doras' website alone. Bearcat (talk) 20:02, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

"BC" vs "British Columbia" in text

I'm seeing all kinds of "Foo, BC" usages in articles, some of which I've expanded to "British Columbia", and also "BC" in phrase like "it was the first in BC"......in Canada we regularly use them interchangeably, but in the US it means, generally, "Boston College" or "Baja California", the latter also prevalent in Mexico. I'm wondering if it should be in CANSTYLE to use the full form.....it's the only province other than PEI that is regularly referred to by its abbreviation, and NWT of course...should I just leave them or go to the bother of expanding them when I see them (lots of work if so, there's tons of this).Skookum1 (talk) 05:13, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

I think BC is fine in Canada related articles. For other ones the longer form may be needed. I wouldn't bother changing them though as other readers and editors can check the BC dab page to see which one is being referred to and change them if they wish.--Canoe1967 (talk) 20:45, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

removable of notability tags by admin-author of non-notable church & business articles.

See the Requests for Comment section of this noticeboard, where I can't make such a lengthy comment as here. User:Neelix, who created these articles (Five Stones Church and Heritage Grill), removed the notability templates shortly after I added them; that is not his place to do as the author of these articles; I have added the advertising template now, and advised him on Talk:Heritage Grill that the templates should not be removed by him again until properly dealt with. He said "tell me if you put these up for AfD...I think they should be put up for PROD as wholly unencyclopedic in content and using, yes third-party sources, but only citing events and other WP:TRIVIA. Wikipedia is not a directory, nor should it be used promotionally in this way. The paragraph in the New Westminster article that these were added to was begging for cites about notable projects on Columbia Street. IMO this is irresponsible behaviour by an admin.Skookum1 (talk) 15:55, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

I was under the impression that any maintenance tags that do not have corresponding discussion on the talk page can simply be removed by anyone. I apologize if I have violated policy or guidelines and would be glad for anyone point me to them. Neelix (talk) 17:04, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
It's been pointed out to you in one of the AfDs that that's not the case, only in the case of POV or BLP tags would that apply.Skookum1 (talk) 10:15, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Academic grading in Canada-review

Comparison of grading has been discussed for each region of Canada thus obliviating comparison at a aglance for general reader. It can be represented in a tabular form for each 10% segment upto 100% and then showing in subsequent columns of regions showing the category assigned. If it happens to be two categories, then it can be specified. To me, it would be more appealing for quick comparison.Myounasch (talk) 07:59, 15 June 2013 (UTC)Mych

comma-province again but re parantheses dabs not towns/cities re churches and buildings

Did some looking around Category:Churches in Canada and its subcategories as a result of discussion about conventions, if not guidelines, at Talk:Thrangu Monastery (Richmond, British Columbia)#Requested move and noting that in many provinces there is no consistency between the use of -comma city or ([city]) and wondering if in the case of unique-in-Canada-but-name-present-elsewhere whether "(Canada)" should be the dab vs city or city-province. In re the RM discussion, I have yet to look under contents of subcats at Category:Buildings and structures in Canada as to what's used there. I know we have no guidelines about this and there's nothing in CANMOS but I thought the convention was parentheses; a glance at the ON, QC and Maritimes categories and others shows there is not yet a standard. Thoughts?Skookum1 (talk) 10:13, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

File:Canadian Passport.JPG

File:Canadian Passport.JPG has a notice concerning the licence. Does anyone know what the passport cover would be covered under? -- 65.94.79.6 (talk) 22:38, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

It is probably public domain because the copyright has expired on the original artwork. See: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Coats_of_arms_of_Canada In order to qualify for a new copyright it would need Threshold of originality far above what is has now from a public domain work.--Canoe1967 (talk) 22:52, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
It is not under public domain. Anything depicting the Royal Arms of Canada are under strict Crown control (see here for an example). Second, Canadian symbols are protected by statutory law (see here). trackratte (talk) 06:57, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

Laura Secord

With Laura Secord on the front page, it might be good to improve the related articles, like Laura Secord Chocolates -- 65.94.79.6 (talk) 12:57, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

2013 Alberta floods

Had a hard time locating 2013 Alberta floods, an article started and built, just about single-handedly by an American editor. Is this not of interest to Canada/Alberta? XOttawahitech (talk) 20:06, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

It is, and if I didn't have so much trouble getting from the far south of the city to the far north today, I'd already be working on it. I've actually driven the entire length of the city three times today, and it has not been fun. I did, however, get some pictures in downtown. Not really as dramatic as some showing up on social media, but only because I couldn't get a birds-eye view. I'll be working on this article for a bit. Resolute 21:12, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

Winnipeg is flooding from the same weather event... would this title still be appropriate, or should we limit coverage to the severe flooding? -- 65.94.79.6 (talk) 12:26, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

XOttawahitech (talk) 14:41, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

  • Yeah, I expect there will be paragraphs in this article noting how the water will flood east into Saskatchewan and Manitoba. But unless the impacts reach similar significance to what's happened in Calgary, the current title is probably fine, imo. But if the Winnipeg storm is part of this system, then a mention of "the same weather system brought heavy rains as far east as Winnipeg, where 77 homes and businesses were flooded." or something similar. But that would require a citation that states the two are related. Resolute 14:46, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
Included Fort McMurray on the premise that much of Alberta has received unprecedented rain in June leading to severe flooding in multiple locations in a short period of time, albeit separate rainfall systems. Intent is to add content as well, but uninterrupted time is needed. May be able to get to it today, if not tomorrow. Further, move may be premature regardless as the North Saskachewan and Athabasca rivers are now on high flow advisories that could be upgraded as well. Meanwhile, not convinced the Winnipeg flooding is the same specific system as the current southern event without a reliable source confirming such. Hwy43 (talk) 15:28, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
Also, the system in Southern Alberta was moving from east to west, so it is unlikely it was the same system that affected Winnipeg. Also, this storm only added to the increasing river levels from melting snowpacks in the mountains, which happen every spring as it is, something that wouldn’t have affected Winnipeg. —Kmsiever (talk) 00:50, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

On another note, no one's written anything on Wikinews about it. -- 65.94.79.6 (talk) 23:13, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

Getting an article on WikiNews takes forever, it's not really good for "news"....Skookum1 (talk) 02:48, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
Indeed. The greatest failing of Wikinews is that it is useless for breaking news. Well, it's useless in general actually, given Wikipedia does a better job covering news than it does. I've favoured shutting that project down for some time. Resolute 13:38, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

We should also keep in mind the various related articles, and have them updated as well (city articles, building articles, location articles, Stampede 2013, Flames, Cougar Creek, Elbow River, Bow River, etc) -- 65.94.79.6 (talk) 05:06, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

MacDonald Ministry

I noticed that First MacDonald ministry and Second MacDonald ministry are not 1st Canadian Ministry and 3rd Canadian Ministry, should these perhaps be changed into disambiguation pages? -- 65.94.79.6 (talk) 06:58, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Bonnybrook Bridge

We seem to be missing an article on what's characterized as a historic bridge (from the Calgary flood coverage); or am I not seeing the article somewhere? -- 65.94.79.6 (talk) 07:03, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

It's a simple train bridge. Old, yes, but not really worthy of a standalone article. Resolute 19:56, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Canadian_Wikipedians%27_notice_board/Archive_18&oldid=1149830968"