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Archive 1Archive 2Archive 3

Five questions

1. At Wikipedia talk:Sandbox, the template's clear page link clears Wikipedia:Sandbox, instead of the actual sandbox. Please create a template for Wikipedia talk:Sandbox. 71.146.20.62 (talk) 03:16, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

It clears the right page, but I've fixed the wording. Graham87 16:32, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
Uhh, no. Go to Wikipedia talk:Sandbox and try it. 71.146.20.62 (talk) 18:01, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
Oh, sorry, I thought you meant the editnotice. I've fixed {{Sandbox heading}} so it goes to the right place when it's placed on Wikipedia talk:Sandbox. Graham87 02:23, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
Thanks and sorry (for the misunderstanding). 71.146.20.62 (talk) 15:02, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
2. Also, think about changing the wording on the beginning of the template to “Welcome to the Sandbox ...” rather than “Welcome to this Sandbox ...”? 71.146.20.62 (talk) 15:07, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
I would, but there are many many sandboxes, and the template is transcluded in quite a few places. Graham87 07:37, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
3. Another question: If you type “{{Sandbox heading}} <!-- Please leave this line alone! --> <!--”, would that be considered a violation of using the Sandbox? Because the bold text would cancel out anything typed in the Sandbox, assuming everyone would abide by not screwing up the Sandbox heading. Would it go under Do Not Remove the Sandbox Heading? 71.146.20.62 (talk) 01:07, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
It would, but it's really not worth noting every single possible violation in a guideline page. I had no idea about the "Misuse of the sandbox" page until now; I've linked it in various places. Graham87 02:11, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
Oh, sorry about that (I did what was stated above, unaware that it would be considered “misuse”). 71.146.20.62 (talk) 17:22, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
4. Also (sorry): is there any way to override the talk page filter when clearing the Wikipedia talk:Sandbox? It triggers it every time I try to clear it. 71.146.20.62 (talk) 17:30, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
Perhaps an exception can be made for the sandboxes, but I don't know much about the edit filter. Ask at Wikipedia talk:Edit filter. Graham87 04:35, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
Alrightee, thank you very much for all your help, @Graham87! 71.146.20.62 (talk) 23:51, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
5. New question (sorry): what would we do with edits like this? 311,000 bytes! I'm quite surprised that it wasn't caught by the spam filter. It crashed my computer while loading. 71.146.20.62 (talk) 21:32, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
Just let them be. They're doing very little harm. Graham87 01:34, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
Okay, thanks! Hopefully that was the last question... 71.146.20.62 (talk) 21:02, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

Sandbox being used as article

Why do people edit the sandbox like an article? Wasn't it supposed to be used for testing? James1011R (talk, contribs) - Visit The Forge 18:40, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

There's nothing wrong with articles being created in the main sandbox, but it's better to use a personal sandbox for this purpose. Graham87 01:36, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
Agreed. But still, why do people add so much spam to the sandbox? Could somebody please add a note to Wikipedia:Sandbox telling people to please use the PREVIEW BUTTON instead of clicking "save changes"? I keep getting error conflicts, which are REALLY ANNOYING! I'm trying to edit the sandbox, to HELP the sandbox from not getting spammed, and what do I get? Error conflicts and more SPAM! It is SERIOUSLY annoying! Somebody add the note to the {{sandbox heading}}! Steve?Player (talk) 19:08, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
No, because in some cases, saving a revision does different things from previewing it. Anyway, there are far more important things to do than patrolling the sandbox. Graham87 00:55, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
You're right. I actually don't care about the sandbox really, It's just that if some newbie user goes to the sandbox and sees a bunch of text there that has nothing to do with sandboxing, well, it would be rather confusing, yes? Steve?Player (talk) 19:42, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
Yes, it could be. Graham87 01:11, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Comment

I would recommend to merge the Article to "About the Sandbox" Why use language that is complicated than those which are much more easier to understand? Abhijay Talk?/Deeds 13:39, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm new,Just like to say Hi

'What do you talk about on here?Vogue2022 (talk) 09:00, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Hey! This place is for talking about improvements to the sandbox, but hi all the same! :-) Graham87 15:53, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Name

While the term "sandboxing" has a long history in computing, in common parlance a sandbox is either where you send children to make one kind of mess, or pets to make another. Neither are very welcoming concepts for new editors. Can we find a better name? Rich Farmbrough, 19:36, 31 May 2012 (UTC).

I second that, as it's not a "Sandbox" either and is confusing to some IT people. How about "Testpage" or "Page for test editing"? Regards, SunCreator (talk) 23:09, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
The idea of a "sandbox" is so well infused into Wikipedia and wiki culture now that might not be easy to change its name. And the sandbox is a place on Wikipedia where you're *encouraged* to make a mess where it won't break anything important, much like its real-life equivalent. Another argument for moving it is that the term "sandbox" isn't used in Commonwealth English, where we use the term "sandpit", as noted in this discussion from July 2004. My opionion is basically "meh"; I'm not sure that all the work required will be worth it. Graham87 01:21, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

1976 Silver Penny, Mule

I have a 1976 US Silver Penny, it was a minting error. They call that a mule. I looked up on line 2 yrs ago and found it valued at $25. Today I can not locate anything regarding this error or it's value, does anyone know why? 1grannie (talk) 23:02, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

You are at the talk page for a help page for the sandbox, and are unlikely to get an answer to your question here. The correct place in Wikipedia for questions like this is the reference desks, but even they may not be able to help you; it might be worth finding a numismatics forum on the Internet where you can get an answer to your query. Graham87 01:17, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Disable redirects from sandbox?

Howdy, I was just curious if it is possible (and/or advisable) to automatically make all sandbox redirects soft redirects. I ask because I recently noticed an anon user had redirected the sandbox to United Kingdom. Not a big deal, of course, but it's easy to envision a scenario where User #1 redirects the sandbox somewhere, then User #2 clicks the sandbox link from somewhere, gets redirected, doesn't notice, then unwittingly trashes a live article while trying to experiment. --Bongwarrior (talk) 14:00, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Well,you can try to redirect the sandbox to the sandbox. I'm new so I don't know much about the sandbox. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.124.224.179 (talk) 16:22, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
It might be possible to prevent users from making a sandbox page into a redirect using an edit filter. Graham87 01:45, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
...which would get in the way of someone using the sandbox to understand the redirect syntax. -- John of Reading (talk) 06:11, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

"My sandbox" explanation could be improved

At the top of the sandbox, in the box (which seems to be transcluded from somewhere) it says:

  • "If you have registered an account you can find or create your own user sandbox here."

It would be clearer to say

That's part of Template:Sandbox heading. -- John of Reading (talk) 13:54, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
I've edited it based on your suggestion. Graham87 01:40, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Insults on the sandbox

I just hate users posting insults on the sandbox. Because I had to wipe out the n word a user added on the sandbox, as well as bringing back the above line the user took away. Why do users think the sandbox is a freedom of speech, it is to help users carry out editorial experiments. There has to be a way to stop these sickos. User:Wonderwizard (talk) 20:28, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

When you invite a large number of people to edit a page, inevitably some of them will be malicious. There's nothing we can do about it; there are far more important things to worry about. Please sign your message with four tildes, so the timestamp is formatted correctly. Graham87 08:18, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
Me too, I hate when I'm doing some testing, and then some random guy puts inapporpiate stuff like "p e n i s", etc. ALso, I very much hate when people erase the top line...Carmaster 1000 (talk) 22:06, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

FOO?

I got this "Redirected from Wikipedia:FOO". WTF is FOO? 82.141.66.153 (talk) 06:18, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia, the largest encyclopedia in the world, where you can look up anything, like foobar. 117Avenue (talk) 06:42, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Shouldn't our sandboxes be excluded from categories?

I noticed my sandbox User:Gmporr/sandbox appears at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Slang . This is due to the fact that it contains a cut/paste from an article which I was editing, which includes [[Category:Slang]].

It would seem that sandboxes should be excluded from categories. Or is that impossible to do, and users just need to remove or comment out any categorization in their sandbox testing? Gmporr (talk) 00:43, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Yes, it's impossible to do that automatically, so users should just remove/comment out any categories in their sandboxes. By the way to create an inline category link, add a colon after the brackets; for example [[:Category:Slang]] produces a link to Category:Slang. Graham87 03:13, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
Thanks. Very useful to know about the colon syntax too. Gmporr (talk) 03:47, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

User talk:Sandbox for user warnings

The useful page User talk:Sandbox for user warnings has just been mentioned in a discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Twinkle#Self-warn_warning_message_-_please_consider_reword. It might be helpful if its existence was mentioned on the main Sandbox page, so that editors wanting to experiment with messages specific to user talk pages, eg from Twinkle, know that there is a sandbox for them to use. PamD 08:04, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

I think that would bloat the main sandbox header; many new users are just interested in editing, not fighting vandalism. I've added a link to that sandbox atWikipedia:WikiProject user warnings/Usage and layout. Graham87 15:48, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

I don't understand how to use the sandbox.

This is embarrassing (which is why I'm not logged in), but I cannot figure out how to edit my sandbox. I can't see any instructions. 202.179.19.10 (talk) 11:38, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Do you see a "Sandbox" link at the top right when you are logged in? If not, you may have disabled it in your preferences - "Gadgets" tab, "Appearance" section, third checkbox. If you do see the link, what happens when you click it? -- John of Reading (talk) 11:46, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
No, that's not the problem. I'm on the Sandbox page. Maybe there was a glitch, but I couldn't find the edit tab (which I now see in the usual place). so, I can edit, but now I want to make a second practice article, separate from what I have. I can't figure out how to do that. 202.179.19.10 (talk) 11:59, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
One way is to type "User:xxxxx/yyyyy" into the search box, where xxxxx is your user name, and yyyyy is the name of the sub-page you want to create; the software will say this page doesn't exist and give you the option of creating it. Another way is to visit Help:Userspace draft and use the button there - that will give you the framework of an article, but you can delete all that if you just want the page for experimentation. -- John of Reading (talk) 12:05, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
Whew. I used "Userspace draft" and it worked. thanks. i don't know how you figured it out. 202.179.19.10 (talk) 12:24, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Default blank

The sandboz should be made default blank, but still keep all of the sandbox templets. If the extremly rare copyrighted, offensive, or libelous content appears warn then block those users. Having the tag will not reduc eit anyways. Having an otherwise ruleless page will make it serve its purpose more and editors will not have to worry about deleting the tag. It looks more like an edit sandbox without the tag anyway.--Cotten134 (talk) 19:08, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Template_talk:Template_sandbox

What are people thoughts on turning Template_talk:Template_sandbox into a sandbox with a header? Currently it seems to get used as a sandbox so we may as well stick the regular header on there and have all talk centralised here? ·Add§hore· Talk To Me! 02:53, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

No objections from me. Graham87 07:10, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
Makes sense. Legoktm (talk) 04:45, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
 Doing... ·Add§hore· Talk To Me! 04:48, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
 Done ·Add§hore· Talk To Me! 05:09, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

Another sandbox

I see that some other users have more than one sandbox, how would I go about creating another one for myself? Grammarxxx (What'd I do this time?) 04:40, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

One way is to type "User:Grammarxxx/yyyyy" into the search box, where yyyyy is the name of the sub-page you want to create; the software will say this page doesn't exist and give you the option of creating it. Another way is to visit Help:Userspace draft and use the button there - that will give you the framework of an article, but you can delete all that if you just want the page for experimentation. -- John of Reading (talk) 07:41, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Rcats needed

There are two Wikipedia:Sandbox shortcuts and four Wikipedia talk:Sandbox shortcuts that need categorization. Source pages are as follows:

  1. Wikipedia:SAND
  2. Wikipedia:SANDBOX
Please change the source codes to...
#REDIRECT [[Wikipedia:Sandbox]]
PLEASE LEAVE ONE LINE BLANK
{{Redr|to project|from shortcut|protected}}
  1. Wikipedia talk:SB
  2. Wikipedia talk:SAND
  3. Wikipedia talk:SANDBOX
  4. Wikipedia talk:TEST
The source codes of these four should be altered to...
#REDIRECT [[Wikipedia talk:Sandbox]]
PLEASE LEAVE ONE LINE BLANK
{{Redr|to talk|from shortcut|protected}}

{{Redr}} is a shortcut for the {{This is a redirect}} template, which is itself a shortcut used to categorize redirects. Thank you in advance! – PAINE ELLSWORTH CLIMAX! 21:59, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

All done! Graham87 03:23, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
 Thank you very much! – Graham87 – PAINE ELLSWORTH CLIMAX! 03:51, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

{{Sandbox heading}}

In {{Sandbox heading}} I'm proposing to change

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sandbox&action=edit&oldid=446999758&edit&summary=Clearing+sandbox&minor=yes

by this :

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sandbox&action=edit&section=new&preload=Template:Sandbox_heading/Preload&summary=Clearing+sandbox&minor=yes

I'm deleting oldid=446999758&edit, and I'm adding preload=Template:Sandbox_heading/Preload. It's better than before, because now we are sure it's a clear version.

What do you think about that ?

--Juanes852 (talk) 12:06, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

PS : Excuse me for my bad english, but I'm a French contributor

It sounds like a good idea, in principle. I performed the edit, then tested it out; I found that it generated a "Subject/headline" edit box, which could be very confusing for new users. Therefore I reverted my edit. Graham87 14:31, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
Thank you for replying. In fact, don't work. --Juanes852 (talk) 09:22, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Sandbox redirects to an article

Whenever I go to get in my sandbox it redirects to an article that I made and was just created. How do I get back to my sandbox? RGFI (talk) 14:29, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

If you click on the link that appears after the words "Redirected from", that will take you back to your sandbox. You can then click the "Edit this page" link to edit it as you normally would. Graham87 07:48, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Cleaning out Sandbox

I can't seem to find this anywhere.

I created and uploaded a new page from my sandbox. Now I'm afraid to clear the sandbox out for fear that I will delete the new article. It seems like they are still very much linked?

How do I clear out my sandbox without affecting the previous article so that I can begin something new?

Please help.

SFGMary (talk) 17:43, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

@SFGMary:When you click on the link to User:SFGMary/sandbox, you are taken to Phase2 International (company) - but if you look just underneath the page title you'll see the message "(Redirected from User:SFGMary/sandbox)". If you click that link you can jump back to your sandbox, where you can edit it to remove the "redirect" code. There's more about this at Help:Redirect.
Alternatively if you'd prefer to start with a completely clean sandbox, leave a message here and someone will delete the leftover traces of the previous sandbox for you. -- John of Reading (talk) 20:57, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Category Scan

I was editing an article in my Sandbox, and noticed my Sandbox being listed under those categories in which the article is supposed to belong when it is published.

I left a note on CatScan talk page, but am wondering if I am doing something wrong, or, this behavior is intended (which should not be the case according to my understanding of the Sandbox concept). Yiba (talk) 02:45, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

You are right, sandbox pages shouldn't be listed in article categories. Unfortunately the software isn't clever enough to do this automatically, so the workaround is to comment them out. One way to do this is to add a colon just before the word "Category". There's more at WP:USERNOCAT. -- John of Reading (talk) 04:32, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
Thank you for the answer. In order for us not becoming like "OK, we found a bug, let's leave it there and find a work-around.", could someone point out the issue with Sandbox developers? It seems to me CatScan is no longer developed, and finding a successor to the original creator may be the best solution. Or else, we will eventually have to find an alternative to it. Yiba (talk) 13:09, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
This has nothing at all to do with CatScan, and everything to do with MediaWiki, the software that drives Wikipedia. Unfortunately I don't think this will be fixed, nor can I think of a way to cleanly solve the problem. Graham87 14:29, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
Thanks. Well...hmmm...can't a bot look for the word "Category" in all the Sandboxes that are edited for the day and put a colon in front of them? Yiba (talk) 15:39, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
It's not as easy as that, since some categories can be used on user pages and sub-pages. But, yes, there is a bot that tries to do this task - see Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/BattyBot 9. -- John of Reading (talk) 16:55, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
I see. I was half-joking in suggesting the bot route as it is "Keeping the bug and adding a work-around" :) I would think the route being easy or difficult is a secondary issue to "how to treat a bug that threatens the very concept of a Sandbox". Yiba (talk) 03:12, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Reader feedback: Please explain whether Sandb...

Piotr.Szymczak posted this comment on 29 April 2013 (view all feedback).

Please explain whether Sandboxes are permanent. (Is the content in my Sandbox safe from deletion?)

The sandbox that are on the page WP:Sandbox is not permanent, it will be deleted on a regular basis. But if you want to edit without the article be deleted I sugest you try your own sandbox. At the top, next to your username+talk is says "Sandbox". That is your verry own sandbox. No-one will delete it...unless is is mobbning or personal attacks.

(t) Josve05a (c) 17:25, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

By mobbning, I assume you mean mobbing. It might also be deleted if it has no hope at all of becoming an article, or if it contains material deleted from the article namespace. Graham87 06:13, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

User:Sandbox

Because the Visual Editor is only enabled for the article and user namespaces, IP users need somewhere to be able to test the visual editor (they cannot create e.g. user:10.239.119.16/Sandbox). To this end User:Sandbox (which was formerly a redirect to the main sandbox) has been unredirected and unprotected. It would be helpful if people could add that page to their watchlists and keep an eye on it like they do the main sandbox. Thanks, Thryduulf (talk) 10:28, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Please see this, dear people able to change said template: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Sandbox_heading/sandbox&oldid=566619111 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.0.81.198 (talk) 19:57, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
Done, more or less. Graham87 02:41, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Misleading edit summaries

{{Help me}} Hello all! I'm just curious if including misleading edit summaries in the Sandbox (most frequently, using "clearing sandbox" edit summary when it was obviously not cleared, but rather had content added) are considered "warnable" offenses (i.e. should {{subst:uw-wrongsummary}} be applied to user's talk page)? Obviously the Sandbox is for test edits, so the edit summary could itself be considered a test as well. However, I often check the Sandbox when anon. or unconfirmed users claim "clearing sandbox", only to find content was in fact added (even occasional outting). To this end, are the edit summaries on the Sandbox considered tests in-and-of-themselves, or should Sandbox edit summaries be accurate as to avoid misleading established editors? DKqwerty 03:48, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

It's probably quite easy to do it by accident (by clicking on the link to clear the sandbox, making your own edits, and then forgetting to change the edit summary). I wouldn't worry about it unless it's clearly trolling. Graham87 05:49, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
You're probably right in this regard (I always clear the sandbox by reinstating the header, not via the provided link). Do you think this should be taken to the Village Pump? (i.e. request that the provided link in the header automatically submit the cleared sandbox rather than offer an opportunity to further edit the cleared sandbox?) DKqwerty 06:30, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
That wouldn't be possible without an external tool, I'm afraid. And it's such a trivial task ... you could ask, but to be honest, I don't think it's a big deal. Graham87 14:24, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, you're probably right. DKqwerty 18:20, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Rcat inappropriate

­This redirect needs an Rcat (redirect category) deleted. {{R to talk page}} is only for redirects outside talkspace to talkpages, not for talkpage redirects to any other page. Please modify the linked redirect as follows:

  • from this...
#REDIRECT [[Wikipedia talk:Sandbox]]

{{Redr|to talk|from shortcut|protected}}
  • to this...
#REDIRECT [[Wikipedia talk:Sandbox]]

{{Redr|from shortcut|protected}}
  • WHEN YOU COPY & PASTE, PLEASE LEAVE THE MIDDLE LINE BLANK FOR READABILITY.

This edit helps to clear Category:Redirects to talk pages of talkpage redirects. Thank you in advance! – Paine Ellsworth CLIMAX! 06:26, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

Done — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 03:48, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Another instance

­This redirect needs an Rcat (redirect category) deleted. {{R to talk page}} is only for redirects outside talkspace to talkpages, not for talkpage redirects to any other page. Please modify the linked redirect as follows:

  • from this...
#REDIRECT [[Wikipedia talk:Sandbox]]

{{Redr|to talk|from shortcut|protected}}
  • to this...
#REDIRECT [[Wikipedia talk:Sandbox]]

{{Redr|from shortcut|protected}}
  • WHEN YOU COPY & PASTE, PLEASE LEAVE THE MIDDLE LINE BLANK FOR READABILITY.

This edit helps to clear Category:Redirects to talk pages of talkpage redirects. Thank you in advance! – Paine Ellsworth CLIMAX! 06:55, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

Done — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 03:48, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Third instance

­This redirect needs an Rcat (redirect category) deleted. {{R to talk page}} is only for redirects outside talkspace to talkpages, not for talkpage redirects to any other page. Please modify the linked redirect as follows:

  • from this...
#REDIRECT [[Wikipedia talk:Sandbox]]

{{Redr|to talk|from shortcut|protected}}
  • to this...
#REDIRECT [[Wikipedia talk:Sandbox]]

{{Redr|from shortcut|protected}}
  • WHEN YOU COPY & PASTE, PLEASE LEAVE THE MIDDLE LINE BLANK FOR READABILITY.

This edit helps to clear Category:Redirects to talk pages of talkpage redirects. Thank you in advance! – Paine Ellsworth CLIMAX! 06:59, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

Done — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 03:48, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Fourth instance

­This redirect needs an Rcat (redirect category) deleted. {{R to talk page}} is only for redirects outside talkspace to talkpages, not for talkpage redirects to any other page. Please modify the linked redirect as follows:

  • from this...
#REDIRECT [[Wikipedia talk:Sandbox]]

{{Redr|to talk|from shortcut|protected}}
  • to this...
#REDIRECT [[Wikipedia talk:Sandbox]]

{{Redr|from shortcut|protected}}
  • WHEN YOU COPY & PASTE, PLEASE LEAVE THE MIDDLE LINE BLANK FOR READABILITY.

This edit helps to clear Category:Redirects to talk pages of talkpage redirects. Thank you in advance! – Paine Ellsworth CLIMAX! 07:01, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

Done — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 03:48, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

 Thank you very much! – Mr. Stradivarius – for all of these! – Paine Ellsworth CLIMAX! 04:12, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Rcats needed (2)

­This redirect needs Rcats (redirect categories) added. Please modify the linked redirect as follows:

  • from this...
#redirect [[Wikipedia talk:Sandbox]]
  • to this...
#REDIRECT [[Wikipedia talk:Sandbox]]

{{Redr|from shortcut|protected}}
  • WHEN YOU COPY & PASTE, PLEASE LEAVE THE MIDDLE LINE BLANK FOR READABILITY.

Template {{Redr}} is a shortcut for the {{This is a redirect}} template, which is itself a shortcut used to add categories to redirects. Thank you in advance! – Paine Ellsworth CLIMAX! 07:11, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

Done — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 03:48, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Yet another

­This redirect needs Rcats (redirect categories) added. Please modify the linked redirect as follows:

  • from this...
#REDIRECT [[WT:sandbox]]
  • to this...
#REDIRECT [[Wikipedia talk:Sandbox]]

{{Redr|from shortcut|protected}}
  • WHEN YOU COPY & PASTE, PLEASE LEAVE THE MIDDLE LINE BLANK FOR READABILITY.

Template {{Redr}} is a shortcut for the {{This is a redirect}} template, which is itself a shortcut used to add categories to redirects. Thank you in advance! – Paine Ellsworth CLIMAX! 08:40, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

Done — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 03:48, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

 Thank you very much! – Mr. Stradivarius – for both of these! – Paine Ellsworth CLIMAX! 04:13, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

finding the sandbox

Finding the sandbox is not too easy. Somehow I found a link from Wikipedia:Tutorial/Editing, but that tried to make a sandbox as my IP address' subpage. It probably should not do that. Only way I could find it was to type sandbox in the searchbox, but could not find it just by clicking. 82.141.117.117 (talk) 22:17, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Search wikipedia for WP:SANDBOX. It redirects there. 64.92.53.159 (talk) 02:00, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Redirect

Why does WP:FOO redirect to the sandbox? 64.92.53.159 (talk) 01:55, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

See its edit history for links to previous discussions about that redirect. Graham87 03:56, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
Blanked. Please send link. 64.92.53.159 (talk) 02:19, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
The previous discussions were at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2011 July 19#Wikipedia:FOO and Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2008_July_27#WP:FOO_.E2.86.92_Wikipedia:Sandbox. They were in the edit summaries in the linked edit history. Graham87 14:59, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. 64.92.53.159 (talk) 20:51, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Draft:Sandbox

The page Draft:Sandbox now exists in the new Draft: namespace. For now I've just given it the standard sandbox heading, but it would be helpful if people here could keep an eye on it like they do Wikipedia:Sandbox and User:Sandbox. I do not recommend redirecting either of those pages to the main sandbox as the Visual Editor is enabled in the User and Draft namespaces but not in the Wikipedia namespace. Having three pages also allows people to experiment with namespace detection if they need or want to. Thryduulf (talk) 13:55, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

What is the purpose of the Draft:Sandbox? The normal sandbox is for edits and the User:Sandbox is for testing the Visual Editor.64.92.53.159 (talk) 23:41, 24 December 2013 (UTC)
Someone writing a complicated template might want to test it in various namespaces. -- John of Reading (talk) 19:52, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

Formatting problem on sandbox toolbar

Toolbar icons are overwriting the sandbox text space.

I'm trying to insert a screen capture here:

File:C:\Users\jstarr\Documents\Snagit\1-6-2014 3-03-13 PM.jpg
screenshot

Does someone know how to fix this? jbsluvsmusic — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.211.224.254 (talk) 23:08, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

Want own Sandbox

Is there a way to get my own sandbox? I want my own.Yoshi24517 (talk) 04:26, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

@Yoshi24517: Yes, see the third paragraph ("If you have a username...") at the top of Wikipedia:About the Sandbox. -- John of Reading (talk) 07:32, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Can you create an article off somene esles sandbox

User:Obiwankenobi/Wolfgang Schmidt (serial killer) is kind of dormant and I would like to create the article, I've edited it some as well.WikiOriginal-9 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 12:41, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that. It's a good idea to notify the owner of the sandbox, which I notice you've already done; if the user hadn't answered affirmatively after a few days, it would've been alright for you to just go ahead and move it. Graham87 14:44, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Can't remove sandbox

Hi I just moved my sandbox to a draft, although in the draft it appears that "This sandbox is in the Draft namespace. Either move this page into your userspace, or remove the {{User sandbox}} template." but I don't seem to know how to remove the user sandbox. Any help appreciated thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jassanchez (talk • contribs) 05:37, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

@Jassanchez: You were editing Template:User sandbox/doc, the page which tells people how to use the {{User sandbox}} template. Your draft is at Draft:Trova Paisa; I have edited the page for you, remove the {{User sandbox}} template and moving the "draft article" box to the top instead. This edit shows exactly what I did. Your draft is now in the queue for reviewing. -- John of Reading (talk) 07:24, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

How to remove it from toolbox

I see a 'sandbox' tool at top right. I want to hide it; but can't find from where to disable it. Can anyone help? -AsceticRosé 05:44, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

@AsceticRose: See Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 136#Sandbox link. -- John of Reading (talk) 05:52, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
Thanks John of Reading, it somehow has worked for me. -AsceticRosé 13:57, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Copy and Paste

A user copied my sandbox and published it with his or her username. Is it legal? I want to publish in main space with my username.93.118.168.50 (talk) 07:56, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Probably not, especially if they didn't mention your sandbox in the edit summary. If you could tell me which pages this involves, I could check the situation out and perhaps do a history merge if that's appropriate. Graham87 08:28, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

VisualEditor

Hi. I can't figure out how to use VisualEditor in User:Sandbox. It says you don't need an account to use it, but I was wondering: does that mean the VisualEditor, or just the sandbox? 203.100.0.82 (talk) 01:25, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

Both. Graham87 04:21, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, but how do I activate it then? 203.100.0.82 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 01:45, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
Oops, I'm a nincompoop. VisualEditor does require an account; once you have one, enable it by clicking on the "Beta" link which is next to the link for preferences. Graham87 03:18, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. 203.100.0.82 (talk) 03:20, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

Hi Graham,
I didn't notice this question until now. Actually, you can use VisualEditor as an IP, but you have to create the URL by hand, and it won't work inside the Wikipedia: namespace (or any talk pages) anyway.
For general experimenting, the easier thing to do is to try it at mediawiki.org: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Sandbox?veaction=edit If you want to try it here (e.g., to use local templates), then you'll have to try it in a sandbox, like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Whatamidoing_(WMF)/sandbox&veaction=edit
The URL is basically the same as what you get when you click the wikitext "Edit" (or "Edit source") button, except that &action=edit opens the wikitext editor and &veaction=edit opens VisualEditor. The simplest way to open VisualEditor at the English Wikipedia is to register and account (free!), login, and set your Beta Features preferences. The other way is to open the page you want in the wikitext editor, and add ve to the start of the &action=edit part of the URL. I'd estimate that this method is used by less than 1 in 1,000 editors (excluding me, of course).
In terms of addressing the IP's issue, what do you think about adding a link for testing VisualEditor that points to User:Example/sandbox? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:28, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
@Whatamidoing (WMF): Done, except I pointed the link at User:Sandbox. Graham87 08:12, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
Thanks a lot, Graham! Wikipedia:Sandbox though doesn't mention VE yet (Template:Sandbox heading/sandbox does), and I think it would be useful if it did. --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 09:23, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
@Elitre (WMF): No worries. I've gone ahead and added it to the main sandbox header as well. Graham87 09:53, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
Thanks again. Looks like there may be even more places in need of such an update, like Template:Editnotices/Group/Wikipedia:Sandbox? I need to check the Italian Wikipedia again to make sure this isn't an issue there as well! --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 15:15, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, Graham. User:Sandbox is a better location. The IP still won't be able to open VisualEditor, though. What do you think about changing the link to User:Sandbox link to User:Sandbox? The mediawiki.org link can stay the same, since VisualEditor is enabled for IPs there. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 15:58, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
@Whatamidoing (WMF): No worries. I've changed the link on the sandbox heading. I'm not sure what to do (if anything) about the editnotice, though. Graham87 11:34, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
The second part of my previous message was for Elitre; I'm just making sure the ping goes through. Graham87 11:36, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
The ping worked :) --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 12:28, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

SineBot signing in Wikipedia talk:Sandbox

SineBot just signed a test edit in the sandbox thinking it was a comment. Someone please place {{bots|deny=SineBot}} on that sandbox. --TL22 (talk) 22:08, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

It can be done by editing Template:Sandbox heading/Talk. But I'm not going to do it just yet because it could be counterintuitive ... what if someone wants to test SineBot in that sandbox? Graham87 07:45, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

Moving from sandbox to live article

Hi there - I think / thought that I had moved an article to Wikipedia from my sandbox following the instructions, however I have the following line of text appearing;

This sandbox is in the article namespace. Either move this page into your userspace, or remove the {{User sandbox}} template.

It is unclear to me which I should do, or how to do either. Any advice is greatly appreciated. C.L.Keeling (talk) 04:33, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

@C.L.Keeling: I have removed the {{User sandbox}} template. -- John of Reading (talk) 05:47, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Thank you John of Reading - is this something that I should have been able to do myself? And if so, how? — Preceding unsigned comment added by C.L.Keeling (talk • contribs) 05:55, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

@C.L.Keeling: Yes, you could have done this. In this edit I simply deleted the first two lines of the article. The first line was the {{User sandbox}} template, and the second was a comment that isn't needed once the template has gone. -- John of Reading (talk) 06:08, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Thank you :@John of Reading: Rookie mistakes - will do better next time. BTW - do I need to do anything further to get it live? Cheers. C.L.Keeling (talk) 06:16, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

@C.L.Keeling: No, the page is now live. The page is now listed at Special:Newpages, and I expect one of the project's volunteer "new page patrollers" will have a look at it. -- John of Reading (talk) 06:38, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for all of your help @John of Reading: I really appreciate it. C.L.Keeling (talk) 08:45, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Bot adding sandbox header

Isn't a bot supposed to add the section header ({{Please leave this line alone (sandbox heading)}}, followed by the hidden comment) to the top of the page if someone removes it? It was removed for 20 minutes here before I added it back. Hazard-Bot seems to be clearing the sandbox every hour but I'm sure I've seen a bot add the header back immediately in the past. — Bilorv(talk)(c)(e) 17:02, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

clear my sanbox

i saved an article in sandbox but i dont want to create the article i just want to continue using the sandbox, how to clear my sanbox ?? --L 7ajabi (talk) 16:34, 9 November 2015 (UTC)L 7ajabi

Scroll up a little bit on this talk page. It is listed. "By tagging it with {{db-u1}}" As per Graham87. ---Miguemely (talk) 00:17, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
Or just blank it in the edit window and start again. Graham87 08:10, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

VisualEditor Not Included?

Despite being promoted, no viable option for using "VisualEditor" is noticeable in the sandbox page — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.255.228.47 (talk) 01:36, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

There's an "Edit page visually" button. Graham87 09:11, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Sandbox vs Draft:sandbox

Since both Markup editing and visual editing are possible in Draft:sandbox, is there any reason (other than legacy) to retain Wikipedia:Sandbox? I might be sensible to just redirect all traffic over to Draft:sandbox so as to have the one page. This also solves the issue over confusion that Wikipedia:Sandbox only has an "edit source" tab. What do people think? T.Shafee(Evo﹠Evo)talk 04:47, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

I don't know; it could be argued that there should be a place to test out the behaviour of the Wikipedia namespace itself (no new section links, no VisualEditor). But if you'd like to take this further, it would need to be advertised more widely, at a place like the proposals village pump. Graham87 05:11, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
Thanks Graham. I see what you mean about a WP namespace. I'd therefore suggest keeping the original WP:sandbox active, but not as the default, as I miagine that the majority of sandbox users aren't specifically using it to test WP:namespace-specific markup. I'll put something up at the village pump and see what the general feeling is though! T.Shafee(Evo﹠Evo)talk 23:05, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

Some pervert tried to add a crappy CGI porn image

Yeah. When I visited the sandbox, a poorly-made CGI porn image of a threesome between one (1) guy and two (2) girls appeared - an example of misuse of the sandbox. I didn't look at the entirety of the image, and the offending edits have since been deleted from existence. Your thoughts? 197.164.182.64 (talk) 07:57, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

It happens sometimes. Editors try to revert it as soon as it happens, but sometimes they don't catch it before newer users see it. Graham87 16:03, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

Sandbox drafts automatically reviewed?

Why did my draft in my sandbox was submitted for review? Isn't sandbox supposed to experiment Wikipedia editing however we want? Now I have a message declining my draft, and it says: Do not remove this line!Laurianna2 (talk) 04:31, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Because this edit of yours added the {{AFC submission}} template. Feel free to remove it because it's in your userspace. Graham87 16:31, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Deletion

How does one go about getting his/her sandbox deleted? GoodDay (talk) 21:56, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

By tagging it with {{db-u1}}. Graham87 01:21, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
Downvoted.Seligne (talk) 09:11, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Sandbox requested edit

I have no idea how to change the template that is visible at WP:SANDBOX, but it should have a line saying something like: "If you are looking for your sandbox, you can find the link to it in the top right corner, between your talk page notifications and the preferences. If you want to learn more about your sandbox, visit Help:My sandbox." --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 05:24, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

@Piotrus: The template you want is {{Sandbox heading}}, which already mentions the user sandbox, but doesn't link to the help page. It's probably best to place an edit request on that template's talk page. Graham87 14:39, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

Changing the name of the Sandbox

Hi, Just wondering if there was any way to change the name of the Sandbox (i.e. change the title displayed at the top of the page). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.161.5.185 (talk) 02:37, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

Nope, there isn't. Graham87 14:36, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

Misleading how-to instructions for sandbox at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Sandbox?veaction=edit&action=edit

Hello Wikipedians, I've just checked out the sandbox at the above URL, which in the body text says 'To edit this sandbox, you can either edit the source code ("Edit Source" tab above) or use VisualEditor ("Edit" tab above).'

However, neither of the above-mentioned tabs appear at the top of that page. That said, there are buttons marked "Edit Source Code" and "Edit page visually" beneath those instructions.

Can this be tidied up, so that things are more intuitive for intending editors like me?

Ta! Ken.

Deleting and re-creating Draft:Sandbox

Does anyone object if I delete Draft:Sandbox, and re-create it as a different user? I keep getting useless speedy deletion nominations (as a result of other people's content), since I am the creator and it's a test page. Mattflaschen - Talk 18:46, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

My sympathies :) You will not be able to delete the sandbox as more than 5,000 revisions requires bigdelete, which can only be done by a steward. The recreation will need to be timed with military precision. -- zzuuzz (talk) 18:56, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
As an admin who restored old sandbox revisions to make Wikipedia:Historical archive/Sandbox among others, I strongly object to the deletion of thousands of edits. It would be OK however to move it to an archive subpage with your alternative account and re-create it. Graham87 01:50, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

How can I delete my own sandbox?

I've made a sandbox for a future article, I discovered an existing article Samsung Galaxy S8, so I want to delete my sandbox for that article. Click here to see the sandbox I want to delete (WARNING: It's not the main sandbox, it's a subpage called GalaxyS8). Is there some administrator that can delete the sandbox? TheWikiContributor (talk) 00:28, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

It's already deleted. Vanjagenije (talk) 09:00, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

Question

What is the logic there Wikipedia:Sandbox and Draft:Sandbox ? 212.39.89.15 (talk) 12:45, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:About the Sandbox#Specialized sandboxes. Wikipedia:Sandbox is the traditional place for test edits. However, the Visual Editor is not enabled on pages with the "Wikipedia:" prefix, so another sandbox was created that can be used for tests with the new editor. -- John of Reading (talk) 13:46, 26 March 2017 (UTC)
Thank you.212.39.89.102 (talk) 15:37, 26 March 2017 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Sandbox is a bit of a relic, Draft:Sandbox is more versatile. T.Shafee(Evo&Evo)talk 23:39, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

Just a question

Is it acceptable for an established user such as myself to use the sandbox and test out formatting and such? I realise the purpose of the sandbox is to give new/unregistered users a place to experiment, but the page does say verbatim that "any user can edit this page"; I'm just curious as to whether it's acceptable or frowned upon for someone like me to still test out markup and templates.

Thank you,

65HCA7 12:36, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

Sure. Go ahead. Graham87 14:54, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
As a registered user, you can also creae your own personal sandbox. If you are logged in, you can access your personal sandbox ("Sandbox" link at the very top of the page, next to your user name). This gets rid of he problem caused by regular clearing of the sandbox (your work in your sandbox would ordinarily be left alone for an indefinite period of time) 7&6=thirteen (☎) 14:36, 7 July 2017 (UTC)

Redirect sandbox to Draft:Sandbox?

Should we redirect the Wikipedia sandbox to Draft:Sandbox? It makes more sense because it is more useful, since you get to use both VisualEditor and the regular source code editor. Ups and Downs (↕) 01:01, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

Already discussed above at Wikipedia_talk:About_the_Sandbox/Archive 2#Wikipedia:Sandbox_vs_Draft:sandbox. User:GKFXtalk 19:28, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

Edit request

The page Draft talk:Sandbox currently redirects to Draft:Sandbox. This is not terribly helpful since it means that clicking on the "Talk" tab on Draft:Sandbox doesn't do anything. The redirect should instead point at WT:Sandbox, since that page is useful as a talk page sandbox, and has a clear link to this real talk page. User:GKFXtalk 19:36, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

Sounds sensible to me. Done. Graham87 10:09, 4 September 2017 (UTC)

Creating more than one article in your sandbox

How do I create more than one article in my sandbox? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yonderjasone (talk • contribs) 16:42, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

You can create multiple sandboxes at User:Yonderjasone/sandbox1, User:Yonderjasone/sandbox2, etc. User:GKFXtalk 22:15, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

Sandbox Deletion

Good day! Please help me to delete my sandbox. Click here to view my sandbox. Thank you. Wewhaha (talk) 23:26, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

Done. For future reference, you can get your user pages deleted by tagging them with {{db-u1}}. Graham87 12:05, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
Thank you very much XD Wewhaha (talk) 13:16, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

Biography

I want to publish my wiki page Arbazhussain112 (talk) 14:35, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

That's not a good idea. You're nowhere near notable enough for that. Graham87 14:41, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

Draft:Sandbox?

I tried to go to the sandbox, but just got sent to a page called draft:sandbox instead. what is this, and where did the other sandbox go? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.163.59.8 (talk) 01:04, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

You can access the sandbox by clicking these highlighted words. Boomer VialHolla! We gonna ball! 01:17, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

Template:Template sandbox needs updating

The instructions in Template:Template sandbox are out of date, as are all the twenty or more sandbox templates in the Template:X1 series.

The wiki-wide change implemented by WMF on 11 December 2017, which saw the renaming of the blue "Save changes" button to "Publish changes" in both source and visual editors, means that many help pages, templates and some graphics are now out of date. I hope anyone who maintains this template will update it as soon as possible to minimise any confusion. Regards from the UK, Nick Moyes (talk) 01:04, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

@Nick Moyes: Thanks for the note. I've fixed it on {{Template sandbox heading}}. Graham87 02:23, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

Question

Hello all! I've been trying to delete this article from my sandbox since I wrote it before reading WP:NSONG. I placed a deletion tag on the article but no one has gotten around to it. This is giving me major OCD, please help! Woodenpig (talk) 03:02, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

@Woodenpig: It was deleted four minutes after you sent your message. If this happens again, just wait; your page will be deleted eventually. This is not the best place to get the attention of admins; I happen to be one but I only check my watchlist twice a day. The correct place to get such attention is the admins' noticeboards, but they are for more urgent or complex issues. Graham87 05:15, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
@Graham87: Got it. Thank you for the heads up! Woodenpig (talk) 16:32, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

Awesome

They are awesomw! Who added sandbox information but deleted my sandbox! 2606:A000:6604:D700:19DC:E15A:4ACA:4C48 (talk) 21:42, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

People were overwriting your sandbox because you're editing the public sandbox. It'd be better to create an account and get your own user sandbox. Graham87 02:09, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

My sandbox

Please delete my revision history on my sandbox here and just my sandbox in general, I regret some of my posts and wish for all of it to be deleted (including the revisions) thank you. --Walkerbull (talk) 13:07, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

@Walkerbull: done. And I've placed your signature at the end of your message rather than the beginning. Graham87 14:49, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

Nice sandbox!

Hello. I just wanted to say, this sandbox thing is kinda fun. I use it mostly to text my typing skills.

I wish more editors knew about it though.


Anyways,

Thanks,--TheHeckLord (talk) 12:30, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

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