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Article promoted by Gog the Mild (talk) via MilHistBot (talk) 23:21, 22 July 2020 (UTC) « Return to A-Class review list[reply]

Invasion of Kagera

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Nominator(s): Indy beetle (talk)

Invasion of Kagera (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

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In 1978 under extremely confused and unclear circumstances, Uganda's armed forces attacked Kagera, a small region in northern Tanzania and occupied it, killing civilians and looting property. Unamused by this hostility, Tanzania launched a counter-attack that saw the Ugandans withdraw from Kagera. This marked the opening chapter of the Uganda–Tanzania War which ultimately saw the overthrow of Ugandan President Idi Amin, and this battle was the only part of the war that took place on Tanzanian soil. This article has passed a GA review and I think it is ready for A-class review, with an eye on one day making it an FA. -Indy beetle (talk) 04:49, 16 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Source review — pass

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Sources all look reliable and correctly formatted. I'm not turning up any new information with simple search methods. No source checks done because of nominator's history. buidhe 11:21, 28 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from AustralianRupert

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Support: Sorry, these are a bit scatterbrained. I've not been feeling well. Anyway, I have a few suggestions: AustralianRupert (talk) 12:35, 26 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • citation 96: "John Darnton" --> "Darnton, John"
    • Done.
  • in the References, Borders, boundaries, peoples, and states : a comparative analysis of post-independence Tanzania-Uganda border regions: remove the space before the colon
    • Done.
  • same as above for the the title of the Legum source
    • Done.
  • According to this account, Kiiza was promoted to captain and commander of the MiG-21 squadron after returning to Entebbe.[87] This cannot be the case, however, as Kiiza was already lieutenant colonel and head of the MiG-21 squadron since before the Uganda–Tanzania War: suggest attributing the contrary opinion here
    • Both sides attributed.
  • "guerillas" --> "guerrillas" if using British English variation?
    • Done.
  • that the Kagera Salient—a 1865 square kilometre (720 square mile) stretch of land between the official border and the Kagera River 29 kilometres (18 miles) to the south, should: suggest adding an emdash where the comma is after the word "south"
    • Done.
  • "neighboring" --> "neighbouring" ?
    • Done.
  • Only one Tanzanian company: suggest linking company here
    • Done.
  • a fight between an Ugandan woman --> "a fight between a Ugandan woman"?
  • but concurred that the incident occurred --> "but agreed that the incident occurred"? (suggestion to vary the language here)
    • done.
  • several different variations of this account, which was mostly --> "several different variations of this account, which were mostly"?
    • Done.
  • messaged Singano via radio --> "contacted" rather than messaged?
    • Done
  • had advanced 15 kilometres (9.32057 miles) into Uganda: this level of precision in the conversion seems unnecessary (9.3 km is probably enough to enable readers to conceptualise the distance here)
    • Truncated.
  • However, the explosions' reverberations: the apostrophe doesn't seem necessary here
  • agents got in a shootout in Kampala --> "agents took part in a shootout in Kampala"?
    • Changed to "engaged in a shootout"
  • observation posts reported Ugandan manoeuvers --> "manoeuvres" if you are using British English variation
    • Done.
  • link platoon
    • Done.
  • The Tanzanians used a Bailey bridge (example pictured) to cross the Kagera River and launch their counter-attack: suggest (example from World War II pictured)" to make it clear that the image doesn't relate to the war that is the subject of the article
    • Clarified as "example in British service".
  • concluded successfully in 2001: do we know the result of this -- did the border remain the same, or was it moved?
    • It appears that the border was restored to whatever the two parties agreed to be its original condition, but the source does not comment on the details of the arrangement.
  • "labor" -->"labour" if using British English
    • Done.
  • "defenses" --> "defences" (as above)
    • Done.

@AustralianRupert: I have responded to your comments. -Indy beetle (talk) 22:27, 1 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I've added my support now. regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 03:53, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

CommentsSupport by PM

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This article is in great shape. I did a cheeky c/e of the lead (feel free to revert if I've changed meaning), and have some additional comments:

Lead
  • suggest linking counter-attack, although perhaps offensive would be a better word here and elsewhere, as a counter-attack is usually temporally adjacent to the attack, and there was quite a gap between the invasion and the offensive to retake the salient
    • Done.
  • suggest The situation remained bleak→Tensions remained high
    • Done.
  • suggest dissension→dissent
    • Done.
  • suggest "incursions into the Kagera region"
    • Done.
  • suggest "The armyUgandans attacked again"
    • Done.
  • "after being assured by his commanders" of what?
    • Changed to after being assured by his commanders of his country's military capability to react.
  • link mobilisation
    • Done.
  • link battalion
    • Done.
  • suggest "Uganda Army officers concentrated on looting and ignored intelligence reports of Tanzanian plans"
    • Done.
  • "a claim which was bitterly contested by Tanzania" what were they contesting? That Uganda was withdrawing, or that it was Amin's decision alone and not the result of TPDF actions?
    • A bit of both, I believe.
  • link Pontoon bridge
    • Done.
  • suggest "beyond expelling the Ugandans from Tanzanian territory"
    • Done.
  • "heNyerere ordered the TPDF to attack Uganda,..."
    • Done.

More to come. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:27, 25 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • suggest linking Kagera (region) at first mention in the body
    • Done.
  • suggest use of convert templates for distances and areas, or at least put a comma in 1865→1,865 the convert template does it automatically. I already did it in the lead, just copy/paste.
    • Done.
  • suggest should be placed under its jurisdiction→should be ceded to Uganda (as per my change to the lead)
    • Done.
  • "Amin violently purged members of southern ethnic groups"
    • Done.
  • suggest Obote's partisans→Obote's irregular troops
    • Done.
  • suggest linking Brigadier
    • Done.

Down to Prelude. More to come. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:24, 25 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • suggest "and favoritism oftowards Nubian troops"
    • done.
  • suggest "the curtailing of the powers of the State Research Bureau, Amin's secret police"
    • Done.
  • who is Lumago?
    • He was the sacked army chief of staff. Clarified.
  • suggest "According to the refugees, Amin had invaded..."
    • Done.
  • suggest "Several Uganda Army soldiers, including Colonel Abdu Kisuule, blamed Lieutenant Colonel Juma Butabika for starting the war. Kisuule accused Butabika of engineering an incident at the border to create a pretext for invading Tanzania"
  • suggest "Among the incidents identified as possible start points for the war"
    • Done.
  • is there a rank for Rwehururu?
    • Sources disagree on the rank he held at the time; some say major, others say colonel. He was in charge of the Suicide Battalion/Regiment, and most other Ugandan commanders who had responsibility over units of parity were lieutenant colonels. Ultimately I thought it best to leave it unspecified here.
  • from the military:.
    • Done.
  • suggest "According to this version of events, the invasion was intended as a suicide mission"
    • Done.
  • "upon reentering to Uganda"
    • Done.
  • suggest "and mutinied with some of his some troops, attacking the Sudanese members of the Simba Battalion" unless the entire Simba Battalion was Sudanese
    • Done.
  • suggest "whereupon they invaded Tanzania"→"resulting in the invasion of Tanzania"
    • Done.
  • suggest "the bombings caused little damage, but the explosions shattered windows and caused panic"
    • Done.
  • suggest virulently→severely
    • Done.

Down to Invasion. More to come. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:04, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • "opposite of Mutukula"
    • Done
  • "Over 2,000 Ugandan soldiers"
    • Done.
  • "Lieutenant Colonel Juma Butabika, and Colonel Abdu Kisuule" as these gents and their ranks have already been introduced
    • Done.
  • 122 mm mortars? I'm not aware of any country that has produced 122 mm mortars, 120 mm being the standard heavy mortar calibre for both the Eastern Bloc and NATO. It seems much more likely that this was a 122 mm howitzer and 120 mm mortars. Could you re-check the source?
    • Avirgan & Honey do indeed state 122mm mortars, and like you I'm also finding that 122mm seems to be limited to howitzers. It is possible they are incorrect; they've misidentified pieces of military equipment in their narratively solid work before, and cross referencing with Cooper et. al. (who are more familiar with such equipment) I've been able to fix it. However, Cooper et. al. does not say anything here.
  • suggest using convert templates for all distances, calibres etc

Down to Second attack. More to come. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:23, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • for minefields link Land mine
    • Done.
  • "were killed after stepping on explosivesmines"
    • Done.
  • "Marajani had his troops advance with caution" but wasn't Gowon in charge?
    • Err, it's not entirely clear, since the info comes from two different reputable sources which don't mention the other commander. I've altered it to read the Ugandan troops advanced with caution to avoid the conflict.
  • "Marajani ordered the Uganda Army" surely as a LTCOL he didn't have this authority? Gowon?
    • Not as you would think. The army was so corrupt and mismanaged that essentially whichever soldier could garner enough influence among his subordinates or the favor of Amin could command whatever force. Read more here: Uganda Army (1971–1980).
  • is "house-servants" a euphemism for something? slavery?
    • Clarified that this wasn't necessarily the women. House servants is just the term the source used, probably only domestic labor, against their will of course.
  • "concubines" seems to be used inappropriately here as a euphemism for sex slavery
    • Perhaps, but it is the word the source uses.
  • suggest "In total, $108 million worth of economic assets was lost"
    • Done.
  • "were met with heavy Tanzanian anti-aircraft fire" but hadn't the TPDF pulled back to Katolo?
    • They did, but Colonel Singano's unit returned and established a position atop the high ground near the south end of the Kyaka bridge.
  • suggest "after an entire day had passed"
    • Done.
  • suggest "Though they deprecateddenounced Uganda's actions"
    • Done.

Down to Tanzanian counter-attack. More to come. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:29, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • suggest "Nyerere ordered Tanzania to undertake full mobilisation for war"
    • Done.
  • which brigade were the Tabora troops from?
    • Probably the 202nd Brigade, which was headquartered there, but Avirgan & Honey do not explicitly say this.
    • NM, it was indeed this brigade. Cooper et al specifies. Added.
  • to martial→to marshal, martial is only ever an adjective, never a verb
    • Done.
  • President Machel, as he has already been introduced
    • Done.
  • suggest "As active members of the Frontline States, both were"
    • Done.
  • suggest "to efforts toaimed at ending"
    • Done.
  • so, the Tanzanian battalion was on Mozambican territory?
    • Yes; this was part of the Frontline States' efforts to guard against Rhodesia and support anti-apartheid guerrillas during the Rhodesian Bush War.
  • did the Mozambican battalion come under the command of the Southern Brigade?
    • It seems very little is known about the Mozambican battalion that came to Kagera other than it was stationed in the area alongside the Tanzanian troops. It probably operated under Tanzanian direction but this is not confirmed by any reliable source.
  • "Gowon in particular was later blamed"
    • Done.
  • suggest "Largely ignorant of military strategy and tactics"
    • Done.
  • "destroying the Kyaka Bridge"
    • Done.
  • perhaps use a different word for the second (or first) use of pledge

Down to Operation Chakaza. More to come. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:06, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • which brigades were represented in the counter-offensive force?
    • Avirgan & Honey do not explicitly specify. The brigade led by Luhanga was likely the Southern Brigade, Mayunga's was probably the 206th, and Marwa's was probably whatever became the 208th. The TPDF's reorganisation during this time and right after, before the invasion of Uganda, led to some name changes, which makes identifying brigades more complicated.
  • "of the troops, whichand initiated"
    • Done.
  • "Tanzanian patrols began exploring the area"
    • Done.

Down to Aftermath. More to come. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:49, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • drop link to Mutukula as it has already been linked
    • Done.
  • suggest "in the displaced persons camps" and link Refugee camp
    • Done.
  • suggest changing counter-attack to counter-offensive throughout when referring to Operation Chazaka
    • Done.

That's me done, finally. Mostly prose stuff, but a few other queries/suggestions. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:29, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Indy beetle Nudge. Gog the Mild (talk) 21:19, 22 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I've been making gradual progress on this; the coronavirus pandemic has sorta upended everything in real life. -Indy beetle (talk) 04:11, 23 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Indy beetle, just a reminder that these three from Peacekeeper still need addressing. Gog the Mild (talk) 11:31, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Also Kagera (region) is duplinked in the Initial actions section, and Mbarara in the Second attack section. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 04:02, 30 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
G'day Indy beetle, once the above outstanding items are addressed, I am planning to support. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:57, 26 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Having made the necessary changes myself, I am now supporting. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:47, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

CommentsSupport by CPA-5

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  • I do have some comments here but I'll wait until PM has done his review maybe he will mention my comments. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 10:04, 25 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Do we know what the end date was in the infobox?
    • No, the end date for this conflict is somewhat vague. Most of the fighting was over in November and most Ugandan troops apparently withdrew, but the TPDF didn't reestablish full control of the region until early January.
  • the official border and the Kagera River 29 kilometres (18 miles) to the south Per MOS:UNITNAMES long units should be fully once mentioned and then need to be abbreviated.
    • Done.
  • beneficiaries of his actions were Muslim northerners Is there a specific name for these kinda people?
    • Sometimes these people are given the catch-all label of "Nubian", but this is not technically accurate. I think the following statement about most of these people being Nubian or Sudanese satisfies comprehensiveness.
  • Amin and soldiers loyal to the Vice President of Uganda No hyphen in Vice President?
    • I've seen it styled both ways; I have no real preference though.
  • who held significant power in the government Per MOS:INSTITUTIONS government should be capitalised. Also by this, this, this and this it looks like this more a British English thing even though found some sources from Canada and Australia.
    • That appears to be an incorect reading of MOS, it actually says not to capitalise in the example you've listed above, because its a generic reference to "the government", not "the Ugandan Government" or "Government of Uganda".
  • were moving within 4.8 kilometres (three miles) of Ugandan border towns --> "were moving within 4.8 km (3 mi) of Ugandan border towns"
    • Done.
  • In July, Radio Uganda erroneously declared No link for Radio Uganda?
    • Done.
  • revolted at Bondo, while other uprisings took place in Tororo, Masaka, Mbarara, Mutukula, and Kampala Looks like something major is there a link for this revolt?
    • No. It's important to remember that this is all "allegedly" - the mutinies are essentially a rumour-turned-theory for how the war broke out, and there's little detail on how these apparently progressed other than supposedly leading to desertion and an invasion of Kagera. Unrest in the Uganda Army was also rather common by this point, and though while particularly revolts (with much more consensus on their historical occurrence) do stand out, the best quality sources don't offer much on these other than their purported role in igniting the war. -Indy beetle (talk) 09:05, 11 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Will continue later on. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 12:22, 9 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • The circumstances surrounding the outbreak of the war are not clear Isn't it "were" because the war is over?
    • Er, depends how you read it. I meant to convey that even as of today nobody really knows what happened.
  • Refugees claimed that several dissatisified Ugandan officers allegedly met at Kabamba on 27 October and drafted a 12‐point petition to Amin, demanding the end of corruption, factionalism, and favouritism towards Nubian troops; the curtailing of powers of the State Research Bureau, Amin's secret police; the reinstatement of Adrisi and former army chief of staff Isaac Lumago; the enforcement of religious tolerance; and an end of the alliance with Arab powers. This is a long sentence; maybe split it?
  • decision until later and went along with it to save face What's a save face?
    • Forgive me for use of the idiomatic phrase. To "save face" means doing something to keep your reputation intact and avoid others losing respect for you. I generally try to avoid using such colloquialisms on Wikipedia, but I couldn't find another satisfactory and succinct way of putting what Amin was supposedly trying to do. If you have a better idea I'm all ears.
  • troops would be killed upon reentering Uganda Reentering should be re-entering by Ngram.
    • Done.
  • Kagera salient vs Kagera Salient
    • Capitalised.
  • Tanzania had tense relations with Zaire, Kenya, and Malawi Not a lot of people know where Zaire was; maybe add a note here where it explained that it was the former name of the DRC?
    • Well, it is wikilinked, so people can click on it to see where it was. Plus some people still refer to the DRC as Congo-Zaire to distinguish it from the smaller Congo, so I don't think any extra explanation is necessary.
  • so Singano requested that his 120 mm mortars Add a convert template here and remove the second time mentioned 120 mm's template.
  • Tanzanian troops had advanced 15 kilometres (9.3 miles) into Uganda --> "Tanzanian troops had advanced 15 km (9.3 mi) into Uganda"
    • Done.
  • at his headquarters in Kyaka, 32 kilometres (20 mi) --> "at his headquarters in Kyaka, 32 km (20 mi)"
    • Done.
  • the unit set up its artillery 10 kilometres (6.2 mi) --> "the unit set up its artillery 10 km (6.2 mi)"
    • Done.
  • they successfully shot down a MiG Shouldn't it be an "an"?
    • I'm not sure how "MiG" is pronounced. M is consonant, though.
  • Maybe it's not grammatically correct in English but in my native tongue you'd give an "em" sound instead of just a "m". I probably got confused by it, even though English grammar rules do not make that big of a difference of my native language. But I were 100% sure you'd say the M as an "em" but whatever. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 08:26, 30 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The rest will follow soon. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 09:57, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • I see a lot of "kilometres"; by MOS:UNITNAMES we should write only long units once and from then on use symbols.
    • That's due to the convert templates, which render kilometres in full. I'll have to "hardcode" in the lengths and conversion manually.
  • while others were employed at the Kinyala Sugar Works Was this a company?
    • Based on my research it was a joint private/state-owned enterprise. I think the source was referring to a specific facility, though.
  • the charges at dawn, destroying the 75 metre (246 ft) centre section Compound adjective here.
  • In British English specific national governments should be capitalised by these sources: The Telegraph, Civil Servant, Univerity of Sussex, Gov.ie Oxford and I also found out that it's also popular in Australia and Canada. MOS:INSTITUTIONS also mentions it.

More is coming. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 12:25, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Tanzanian Government made its first public acknowledgment American acknowledgment.
  • had occupied territory in the northwest portion American northwest.
    • Hyphenated.
  • invasion as Ugandan aggression: Mengistu Haile Mariam of Ethiopia, Didier Ratsiraka of Madagascar, Agostinho Neto of Angola, Seretse Khama of Botswana, Samora Machel of Mozambique, and Kenneth Kaunda of Zambia It maybe become handy if we add their titles at the time at their first mention; which I believe is here?
  • OAU chairman Edem Kodjo privately confided Not sure of "chairman" should be capitalised.
  • displaced persons camps were minimal or nonexistent --> "displaced persons camps were minimal or non-existent" per Ngram.
    • Done.
  • Uganda and Tanzania on reestablishing a complete Per Ngram it should be "re-establishing".
    • Done.
  • land within 100 metres of the border Convert?
    • Done.
  • Unlink Africa in the image "File:LocationUganda&Tanzania.png".
    • Done.
  • Do we know what the casualties were in the infobox and body?
    • The only complete estimate is on Tanzanian civilian deaths, which are put at about 1,500 killed by Ugandan troops. There is no total for Tanzanian soldier casualties, though we know 1 soldier was killed and three wounded when clearing a land mine and an unspecified few died in traffic accidents. There is no info on Ugandan casualties.

That's anything from me. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 12:23, 3 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Was waiting until Indy has replied to my comments back. I assume I was too busy to keep an eye over here. But it looks good to go in my view. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 07:34, 30 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Image review – pass

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Will look at this Векочел (talk) 01:26, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No problems here Векочел (talk) 01:32, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support from Vanamonde

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I will make some copy-edits as I go; feel free to revert me if you disagree with anything, and if it's substantive, we can discuss it here.

  • Am I correct in thinking "a 1,865 square kilometres (720 sq mi) stretch of land" should read "a 1,865 square kilometre (720 sq mi) stretch of land", and if so, some finessing of that template may be required?
    • Fixed manually. I'm not very good with convert templates.
  • Linking Salient (geography) at some point would likely be helpful.
    • Done.
  • I rather suspect most folks writing about the expulsion of Asians now would use "ethnic asians" and "ethnic Africans to distinguish the groups involved; by modern conventions, the current wording would imply the immigrants were not ugandans, though I know conventions have shifted over time.
    • Changed as requested, as this is factually the case. However, I would note that most modern sources still just refer to these people as "Asians" [4][5][6], even ones which stress that many of these people were of Ugandan nationality [7].
  • "his charismatic abilities" reads odd to me; I'd just say "abilities", unless there's a specific reason to mention his charisma.
    • That's per the source; Amin would sometimes make appearances at various garrisons and make speeches and promises to them, which could mollify their dissatisfaction.
      • I'm not going to make a fuss over it, but it sounds non-idiomatic to me.
  • "visits with his troops" is ambiguous, though this is likely an ENGVAR problem; is he visiting the troops, or taking them with him on visits?
    • Changed to "meetings".
  • "dispatched several agents to eliminate a battalion" sounds like a handful of soldiers was sent against a much larger force...is this accurate?
    • Changed to "squads" per the source.
  • There's quite a few uses of "allegedly", which always makes me a bit uncomfortable; I'd prefer "according to [whoever said it]", unless you don't actually know that and the sources are actually just saying "allegedly" with no further context.
    • I've changed some instances to the more neutral "reportedly", but the sourcing in these instances is often vague as to the exact origin of certain narratives.
  • "Refugees claimed" what refugees are these?
    • Ugandan refugees. Clarified.
  • Are the "more mundane explanations for the invasion" all still arguing that Butabika was responsible? if so, this could be stated explicitly; it would make the paragraph a lot less confusing.
    • The only mundane explanation that explicitly involves Butabika is the bar fight theory.
  • Is there no link for "Kinyankole language"? I did a quick search, and found that two articles about this conflict are the only ones which use the term...odd, to say the least.
  • There's a sentence about the OAU's position in both paragraphs of "international reactions", and a seeming redundancy between them; can you collect it, or reduce the redundancy in some other way?
    • I don't think there's much redundancy. One paragraph deals with the immediate reactions of governments and institutions to the invasion, the other deals with mediation efforts.
  • Do we know when Nyerere ordered mobilization?
    • Probably 2 November, since that is when Nyerere made is big speech declaring war on Uganda. However, the source is not specific on this.
  • I think "brigade" might be worth linking
    • Done.
  • "In contrast, Amin allegedly realised his precarious situation" to a non-specialist, it isn't obvious why Amin's situation is precarious; he's sitting on enemy territory protected by a river with comparable numbers of troops.
    • I don't think it's a stretch to call his situation precarious or requires specialist knowledge to understand it; his troops are about to face a counteroffensive and he has little to no international support for his military adventure.
  • "Kagera River via pontoon bridge" shouldn't it be "a pontoon bridge" or "pontoon bridges"?
    • I don't think that is necessarily required; Merriam-Webster has examples including "He did some research via computer."
  • There are quite a few uses of the word "claimed" sprinkled throughout. Some of these are justified, since they are referring to verifiably false claims, but in other cases a synonym may be more appropriate, per WP:CLAIM.
    • I've changed a few instances of this; I think the rest rightfully imply that the assertion they precede is suspect.
  • "By early January all Ugandan troops had been ejected from Kagera" this implies there had still been troops there when the diplomats visits etc, described in the previous paragraph, were occurring; this is an implied contradiction that isn't really addressed
    • It's a question that remains unanswered. It's quite possible that all Ugandan troops had left by the end of November, but Tanzanian forces only completely reestablished their hold on the territory in early January.
      • In that case, I'd suggest phrasing it as "all Ugandan troops are known to have left..." which makes it clear that they may have left earlier, but that information isn't available.
        • [B]y early January 1979, all Uganda forces had been expelled from Tanzanian soil is what the source says. I've also just re-read a relevant page in Avirgan & Honey which says between late November and January minor clashes happened in the border region between the Ugandans and Tanzanians, which suggests that the Ugandans were still violating the border after Amin's declared withdrawal.
          • Okay, that addresses my concern.
  • "to avenge the pillaging in Kagera" is this phrasing used by the source in its own voice? I doubt you mean it that way, but it almost comes across as Wikipedia saying these killings were justified.
    • The exact phrase is "The Tanzanians had begun to take their revenge". I didn't mean to imply that what the TPDF did to Mutukula was "justified"; only to stress that their motivation for destroying the town lay in their anger for what had happened in Kagera. As you can read at Battle of Mutukula, President Nyerere was actually horrified by what they did.
  • The article implies that Tanzania was in a position to see a severe economic fallout from the war, but doesn't actually discuss the economic fallout beyond the tax; is there not information available?
    • It is mentioned here that an estimated $108 million worth of economic assets were lost in Kagera. Most sources don't talk about the economic impacts of the specific invasion on Tanzania as much as they talk about the economic impacts of the wider war. Thus, I put most of the information regarding the war's impact on the economy at Uganda–Tanzania War.
      • I think a sentence or two summarizing that would help a lot here. As it is, it feels like the article is leaving that hanging a little bit.
        • Ok, I've added Scholars' estimates of the total direct costs of the entire war for the Tanzanians range from $500 million to $1 billion.
  • In the "resettlement" section, I'd recommend duplicating links to those cities; without further context, it's just a list of names, so I think IAR with respect to OVERLINK would be justified.
    • It's not really a matter of overlinking; most of those localities are incredibly small and thus no Wikipedia articles for them exist. Just Mutukula (Tanzania) and Bukoba have their own articles, and both of those towns feature repeatedly in the larger narrative so I don't think relinking them would be necessary.
  • The distinction between the aftermath and legacy sections is tenuous, to me. I'd prefer to see them combined. It's mostly a matter of preference, though, so I won't press you.
    • Perhaps the naming of those sections is an issue; I think they are more thematically different, since one deals with the more immediate effects and the other deals with the more long-lasting ones.
  • I know you've had a source review, but I can't help but wonder at the use of the film. I assume it's a documentary, but even so, is the detail it's used for something that the producers say in their own voice? or is it an interviewee speaking?
    • It was a Tanzanian government-produced documentary on the war effort. The fact is stated by the narrator and is shown on-screen.

Generally, this is excellent work based on obviously messy source material. Nicely done, and I expect to support once my concerns are addressed. Vanamonde (Talk) 03:29, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

G'day Vanamonde, how are the responses looking? Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:25, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Peacemaker67: The responses so far are fine, but there's a couple of comments, and one reply, still outstanding. Vanamonde (Talk) 15:36, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Vanamonde93: I think I've gotten to all of them now. -Indy beetle (talk) 19:32, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"Support', as I think you've done all you can to address my concerns and none of the minor bits that remain are a deal-breaker. Vanamonde (Talk) 20:37, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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