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July 29

Canned tomato or pasta sauce

The question is very simple: Weight by weight, which one product contains more tomato? 100% pure canned/diced tomato in tomato juice or a typical mass-produced inexpensive supermarket-grade non-gourmet pasta sauce (e.g., Ragú, Hunt's)?

Argument 1: canned tomato > pasta sauce
Pasta sauce contains thickening agents such as starch, sugar (high-fructose corn syrup in the U.S.), oil and water.
Argument 2: pasta sauce > canned tomato
Pasta sauce is made from tomato purée or tomato paste. Even after adding water and other dirt-cheap, low-grade and barely edible ingredients, its tomato concentration is still higher than 100%.

Well, I am clueless. -- Toytoy (talk) 00:46, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, it depends what you mean by "more tomato". Which contains more sea water, sea water or sea salt? 216.135.172.188 (talk) 00:50, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Huh? Confused this one is... To OP- I think #2 is the answer. 161.222.160.8 (talk) 01:53, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Higher than 100%? Does the Nobel Prize committee know about this? Clarityfiend (talk) 03:23, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It sort-of makes sense if you think of a single pinch of 100% pure tomato in 1% diluted (99% water) tomato juice. Now, if you compare an average "100% pure canned tomatoes in tomato juice" with an average jar of Ragú, how many tomatoes would you need to make 100 gallons of each? --Kjoonlee 04:02, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Assuming all the tomatoes have equal size, of course. --Kjoonlee 04:04, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Given that a large percentage of a tomato is water, one could even ask "how much tomato is in a tomato". -- JackofOz (talk) 04:56, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A can of thick tomato paste can easily be much higher than 100% tomato. To make 1 unit's thick tomato paste (in volume), you may need several units of fresh tomato (in volume).

Now, let's assume it takes about 1 cubic meter's fresh tomato to make 1 cubic meter's canned tomato in tomato juice. How much tomato does it take to make 1 cubic meter's typical commercial tomato-based pasta sauce? More than 1 cubic meter or less than 1 cubic meter? -- Toytoy (talk) 17:14, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There may be one or more indicator chemicals in tomato that does not show up in other pasta paste ingridents. Maybe it's lycopene or maybe it's pectin. Does the pasta paste contain more of these chemicals than regular tomatoes? -- Toytoy (talk) 17:22, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You're making this too complicated. Take a tomato (or a couple of tomatoes). Weigh it, cut it up and or smash it to a pulp. Air it out to dehydrate it while simultaneously dehydrating portions of the products in question whose initial weights are equal to the initial weight of the tomato. When the samples are dry, which is when they look like fruit-roll-ups (you may be able to measure moisture content with a voltage meter; the less resistance, the more water), you weigh them and then you eat them. You have no way of telling what percentage of the sauce is non-tomato material, such as onions and stuff but I'd figure it's maybe 5%-10% of the weight. The non-sauce samples may taste better with some ranch dressing or something. -LambaJan (talk) 02:38, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ingredients of 5 gum

Does anybody have any 5 gum on them, particularly Rain? I need to know if it contains any xylitol, and if so, how much. Thanks. --76.16.186.86 (talk) 02:03, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I doubt you still need to know, but for the record, the ingredients list on Rain gum does not list xylitol. It is sweetened with aspartame. Matt Deres (talk) 13:02, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Name of this muscle

What is the name of this triangular muscle on the bottom abs of men that virtually all male models seem to have? Here is a picture of the muscle: [[1]] (Note: features a man without a shirt, may not be work-safe).

And how does one develop this muscle? Acceptable (talk) 02:35, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That line is the iliac crest and/or the inguenal ligament of his pelvis; it gets obscured pretty easily by fat and other tissue. The muscle directly above that line is the obliquus extrernus. It's difficult to build up safely, but if you have access to the right gym equipment, you can use a rack that allows you immobilize the lower half of your body and either free-bend or lift weights using your various abdominals. I've used it a number of times, but I don't know what the heck that equipment is properly called. Matt Deres (talk) 13:19, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Just to elaborate, the reason it's difficult to build up safely is that working the abdominals often involves bending or twisting the spine while using weights, which is a risky proposition. Talk to a doctor and a trainer (in that order) before starting an intense regimen. You can mitigate the danger by building up slowly, developing all the abdominals and lower back muscles together, and making sure to never lift or bend in a sudden or jerky manner. That goes for any workout, but goes double in this case. Matt Deres (talk) 13:26, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

map shown on the flag

there are two countries shown the map on the flags of their countries. which are they? thank you124.43.48.65 (talk) 03:26, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

See Gallery of sovereign-state flags. Cyprus seems to be one... Dismas|^(talk) 04:36, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The flag of Kosovo also includes a map. Whether or not it's a country is a matter of some controversy. —D. Monack ^talk 06:38, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The flag of Tuvalu arguably is also a map. —D. Monack ^talk 06:40, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Similarly, the flag of Nauru shows the island's position relative to the Equator. There's also the flag of Bumbunga, though I doubt Bumbunga would be counted as a country! AJHW (talk) 13:54, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The only countries currently with "real" maps on their flags are Cyprus and Kosovo. Others have stylised represenatations - these include Bosnia and Herzegovina, Tuvalu, and Nauru. Cambodia briefly had a map on its flag (which was vaguely similar to the current Kosovo flag), and a proposed flag of Tokelau which narrowly missed being adopted had stars as islands, as per Tuvalu. Grutness...wha? 23:39, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

distance

what is the exact distance of doyong in calasiao to downtown dagupan

Dagupan and Calasiao are apparently both in the Philippines, and Doyong is apparently one of the barangays in Calasiao. What kind of distance do you want ? Driving distance, great circle distance (shortest route on the Earth's surface), or straight-line distance (shortest distance through the Earth) ? I can only come up with a very rough approximation of 3 miles. StuRat (talk) 13:23, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've spent some time in the Philippines, so I'd estimate that it would take you between 30 minutes and an hour to travel on a bus between the two locations. You'll have to wait for the bus to fill up and then it'll drive really slowly. Useight (talk) 14:52, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's 3-6 miles per hour. You could walk at 3 mph. StuRat (talk) 00:09, 31 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sort of water filter system in US

Can I know what sort of water filter system is most common in US?

Is is Reverse OSmosis, UV, or other sort?

Thanks!

Although we don't think of them as water filter systems, I would think a water softener might be the most common whole-house filter. They replace minerals in hard water with sodium, so do filter out those minerals. Filters at the sink are usually reverse osmosis and/or activated charcoal. Then there are the pitchers that filter water, which are always activated charcoal, as far as I know. StuRat (talk) 13:09, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Size of Virus and heavy metal

Can anybody show me the picture or scale of virus and heavy metal which exist in our drinking water?

Which sort of filter can actually remove this kind of creatures and contaminant? Thanks!!

A virus is going to be many orders of magnitude larger than a single molecule of any heavy metal. A reverse osmosis filter should remove the viruses and most of the heavy metals. An activated charcoal filter is likely less effective. Note that many reverse osmosis filters have a defective design, in that they lack the cycle which purges the filter of accumulated debris, and this clogs them on a regular basis. Be sure to get one with a purge cycle (or that allows you to manually purge it, at the very least). This doesn't apply to activated charcoal filters, as they must be periodically replaced (and thus usually end up costing more in the long run). StuRat (talk) 13:02, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Networking technology in restaurants

What kind of fancy technology do they have in restaurants now? I know people can drag their laptops into Starbucks and get free wireless 'net, but what other stuff is there in terms of networking? Also, what's going to happen in regards to Microsoft Surface?Avnas Ishtaroth (talk) 05:53, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Modifying signature

How does one go about putting fancy fonts, colours etc. into their signature? Is it HTML, BBCode or some Wikimarkup? Does anyone have a list of functions, thanks.Avnas Ishtaroth (talk) 05:56, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

While I'm at it, how do I check exactly how many edits I've got?Avnas Ishtaroth (talk) 06:07, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's just HTML. You do have to check the "Raw signature" box though once you modify it. As for the second bit, there was a tool that someone created to check your edit count with but I've forgotten whose it was. It wasn't on site though. Dismas|^(talk) 06:24, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Edit counter. --CWY2190(talk • contributions) 06:56, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You don't even need that nowadays, it's in your "my preferences" already, where you can also change your signature. --antilived^{T | C | G} 07:55, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thankyou! I'm happy now. Avnas Ishtaroth _{drop me a line} 11:24, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The "My Preferences" count includes deleted edits while the wannabe_kate tool does not. Just for clarification. Useight (talk) 14:49, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Cool, I didn't realise that! the wub "?!" 08:31, 31 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Bigger than Jesus?

Can anyone tell me Jesus' adult height and weight, I want to be able to claim that I'm bigger than him.... failing that where can I find data on the average height and weight of middle eastern males in that period so I can at least say that I'm more than likely bigger than jesus (was)?

Here[2] are some figures based on Jewish males as well as portraits. Pity is he's got the age advantage according to some. :) Julia Rossi (talk) 08:16, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

But are you bigger than the Beatles? -LambaJan (talk) 03:00, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Depending on one's opinion of the authenticity of the Shroud of Turin, the characteristics of the shroud image could be used to approximate height and weight. I seem to recall reading such an estimate in a book on the Shroud but can't think of what the title was. User:Jwrosenzweig editing as 71.112.34.57 (talk) 09:42, 4 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

map

where can i find the map of small countries in a reasonable large size? thank you.124.43.65.210 (talk) 08:13, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

To see the small countries you need to have a map of each of them alone, unless they are right next to each other, then you can show a group. For example, on any map that shows Russia, the Baltic States will seem tiny by comparison. However, just go to Google + Maps and type in "Latvia" for Latvia alone (you can then zoom out to see all the Baltic nations at once). You can make each map bigger by picking on the "<" symbol on the left side of the map, and by increasing screen resolution to the max on the Windows O/S by using Start (+ Settings) + Control Panel + Display Icon + Settings Tab to slide the resolution slider all the way to the right. StuRat (talk) 12:30, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If you don't like Google's own maps, you can go to Google + Images and type in "Latvia Map" for a list of all Latvia maps found on the Internet. Select "Extra Large Images" from the pull-down menu to restrict the results. Pick on the map you want, to go to it's site. I found this nice zoomable map that way for Latvia, for example: [3]. StuRat (talk) 12:42, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Is Obama black?

Is he? I would call him mulatto and it is not meant as an insult, just fact.

"Black" and "White" and social constructs anyway. His father was black Kenyan and his mother was a white woman from Kansas. He is of mixed decent - call him what you will. Oh, and mulatto is not PC these days. There is some other euphemism now. Plasticup ^T/C 11:03, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the proper PC terminology is to say "he's got a bit of cream in his coffee". :-) StuRat (talk) 12:51, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hahahahaha, I'm still laughing about this one. —Keenan Pepper 13:23, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The fact is that almost all African-Americans are various mixtures, modern and historical, between African and European populations (along with Native Americans, while we're at it). Historically any child of any sort of mixture of Black and non-Black populations is usually considered Black, no matter how small or large the percentage is, but this just makes the fact that it has little to do with biology all the clearer. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 14:13, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, it's more of a sociological than a (scientific) "fact" question. See also the article on one-drop rule for some historical perspective and more contemporary dynamics. ---Sluzzelin talk 15:37, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'd say the current preferred term is biracial or multiracial. Marco polo (talk) 01:51, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The relevant article is hypodescent. The important aspect to this is how he's perceived in the world and the issues he has to deal with. He may be mixed (or however you want to call it) at home, and he may even identify himself that way on documents and other parts of his life, but the social pressures are real and he has to deal with the reality of being a black man in America as much as any other black man does. -LambaJan (talk) 02:58, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

According to the pencil test, he is coloured or multiracial. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 10:06, 4 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Looking cool with scary eyes!

(Request for medical advice removed. Note that saying "this is not a medical question" does not mean that this is not a medical question.) - Eron^Talk 14:19, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that the question as stated was inappropriate, but the asker might like to check out a more sensible option at Scleral_lenses#Use_in_special_effects. --Sean 14:53, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

First you gotta kill a few people. Then you got to get sent to a slam, where they tell you you'll never see daylight again. You dig up a doctor, and you pay him 20 menthol Kools to do a surgical shine job on your eyeballs. Plasticup ^T/C 16:21, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

driving licences in ireland

can anyone tell me what year driving licences were given out free in ireland.Bigbuffer (talk) 13:39, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Food for thought...

Has there ever been an attempt to fully automate a fast-food restaurant ? They could have customers enter the number of their choice, say a double cheesburger, then select None, Normal, or Extra for each topping, like tomatoes, and a machine could then create it for them. I'd think it might be popular, just due to the novelty. StuRat (talk) 13:55, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

See automat. They are still very popular in The Netherlands. 195.35.160.133 (talk) 14:11, 29 July 2008 (UTC) Martin.[reply]

Except there's still people in the back making the food. I don't think there's ever been an attempt to fully automate the entire process of preparing all the ingredients and assembling a sandwich at a restaurant level. --Random832 (contribs) 17:21, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You might see it if minimum wages are significantly increased, but without that there's really no point. Getting people to do it is far cheaper than designing, building and maintaining robots to do it. --Tango (talk) 01:53, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The whole point is that people might go there, versus a human-run restaurant, for the novelty of seeing robots prepare their meal. StuRat (talk) 04:06, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

We already have something conceptually similar. It's a vending machine for coffee that allows the customer to specify if and how much cream and sugar he/she wants in the coffee. --71.162.242.76 (talk) 17:03, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Pizza vending machines. APL (talk) 22:43, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's getting a bit closer to what I meant, although they apparently only have 3 pizzas to choose from, which are then heated. I'd have allowed the customers to specify the toppings and then would have built each pizza to order. StuRat (talk) 00:05, 31 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Conservapedia

Does anyone take Conservapedia seriously? Most of the articles just seem so ridiculous that it's hard to work out whether they're genuine or satire inserted by the "liberal" conspiracy. I cannot imagine anyone actually suggesting that it should be used as anything other than a source of mis-information. Jooler (talk) 15:36, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There's probably somebody, but I can't imagine who Emma Hordika (talk) 15:52, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Poe's Law.[4][5] It's impossible to parody a fundamentalist. --h2g2bob (talk) 16:23, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There are an ever-increasing group of Wikipedia knock-offs meant to serve specific agendas (of course, they always posit Wikipedia is the one having the agenda, but anyway). There are Conservative ones and White Supremacist ones and probably others I don't know about. As far as I can tell, they have two audiences: the people who write them (usually a handful of people, no more), and people who are unsavvy about the ways of the internet. For example, one of the slanderous political e-mails going around lately is about Obama's mother, and it looks, superficially, like it came from Wikipedia. (My grandmother even forwarded it to me.) But in reality it's from one of the white supremacist Wikis and is authored by an admitted member of a neo-Nazi group. Was I fooled? No, I'm internet savvy, and I know better than to trust ANYTHING in one of those political e-mails, especially without doing a little bit of research into its origins/veracity first. But my grandmother? She has no clue. She only figured out there was a site called Wikipedia a few months ago and she wouldn't have the slightest idea how it worked. As far as she's concerned any site that calls itself an encyclopedia is set up along the same old lines as her print encyclopedias. She's not dumb, but she's very old, and in her lifetime has watched computers go from something that fills entire rooms to something small and strange on a desk. She, unwittingly, is one of the audiences for these splinter encyclopedias. Which is depressing, I guess. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 16:28, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sure many people do; American neoconservatism and the religious right are very powerful cultural movements. Conservapedia is-or was originally-intended as a resource for and by homeschooled children, which may explain the slightly simplistic nature of many of the articles. FiggyBee (talk) 16:31, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Neoconservatism and the Christian right should not be conflated; they have some points of commonality but are very different in origins and worldviews. I don't think neoconservatism is a cultural movement at all (in the sense of having much of a footprint in the popular culture--certainly it's a movement that has strong prescriptive views about culture). It's more of an intellectual movement, and basically secular. I doubt that secular neocons have much use for Conservapedia, which really seems to be specifically aimed at the Christian right. --Trovatore (talk) 01:17, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I can think of another explaination... Plasticup ^T/C 18:59, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Homeschooling is not synonymous either with fundamentalist Christianity or with simple mindedness. People choose to homeschool for many reasons. Not least of which is that public schools in the US suck right now. Please don’t foster stereotypes here! :) More to the point, I suspect that many of the more extreme articles on Conservapedia have in fact been authored by savvy trolls. --S.dedalus (talk) 21:43, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

To actually answer your question, yes, Andrew Schlafly does want Conservapedia taken seriously. Just maybe two weeks ago, a former WP bureaucrat and developer failed a RfA, partly because he's a CP admin. As for the liberals, all we got is RationalWiki, which takes itself a little bit less seriously. Paragon12321 (talk) 17:16, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I missed that - who was it? (link?) Exxolon (talk) 18:56, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

See Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Ed Poor. Graham87 15:02, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

S.dedalus; I meant to suggest that the simple writing style was suggestive of highschool-age students, rather than homeschooled people. And yes, I wouldn't be surprised. FiggyBee (talk) 23:04, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe it'd be taken a little more seriously if he didn't think the Axiom of Choice was a liberal conspiracy. (He doesn't like it, fine, but what the hell's political about it?) --Random832 (contribs) 17:23, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

lol --S.dedalus (talk) 21:45, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm -- I took a look at Conservapedia's AC page and, while there are some fairly weird statements (like the one about "formulating a constructive axiom of choice" being one of "three major problems" for math-logicians), I didn't see anything suggesting that AC is political. --Trovatore (talk) 23:24, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

After reading Conservapedia's article on the subject, I find it gives a better explanation in layman's terms than the Wikipedia article. − Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 00:51, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

See http://www.conservapedia.com/Examples_of_Bias_in_Wikipedia - it gives our insufficiently critical presentation of proofs relying on the AC as an example of liberal bias. He's got a bit of an ideological thing for constructive proofs. http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/Conservapedia:Conservapedian_mathematics (yes, rationalwiki is a bit biased against conservapedia, but the claims seem to check out) --Random832 (contribs) 04:00, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wow. Just in case anyone follows that link and wonders about the use of the axiom of choice in Wiles's proof of Fermat's Last Theorem: It's possible, for all I know, that the proof does make use of AC. However, this should cause no doubt in the minds even of those who think AC is false. If you can prove a result about the natural numbers with AC, then you can also prove it without. (There are some caveats here, such as about the meaning of the word "prove" and whether Wiles's proof meets that standard, but that digression would take us too far into technicalities—suffice it to say that almost certainly no serious anti-AC mathematician doubts Wiles's proof because of the use of AC.) --Trovatore (talk) 04:18, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Is Australia really stuck 10 years in the past?

When I last visited Australia it seemed as up to date at the rest of the modern world, so why does the stereotype that Australia is 10 years behind everyone else still persist? Are there any cases where this is indeed still true; fashion, music, industry, etc? Any other countries like this, Egypt, South Africa, Spain? Dark Angel X5 Max (talk) 19:13, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No no, they are literally 10 years in the past. It takes a while for space-time to stretch around the curvature of the Earth and reach them down at the bottom. In seriousness, I have never heard of this stereotype. Where are you from? Plasticup ^T/C 19:53, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've never heard of that stereotype either. --Tango (talk) 20:04, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's certainly an old saw (although when talking about Queensland, the state I live in, we tend to say 50 years!), but maybe not as true as it once was. If you want physical and political historical examples of backwardness; Brisbane had large areas unsewered into the 1970s, and Queensland had laws against homosexuality until less than 20 years ago. There are, I can tell you from experience, very strong currents of racism, homophobia and anti-intellectualism in the idealised (white rural) Australian culture, although in a much more laid-back way than you might see in other countries. FiggyBee (talk) 20:22, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Strong, yet laid-back currents of racism, homophobia, and anti-intellectualism? This I have to see! − Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 00:47, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

(ec) That anti-intellectualism of which you speak is sometimes not as laid back as you say, FiggyBee, but quite in-your-face, and very disturbing for one of the better educated societies on the planet. It's particularly apparent in TV shows aimed at the yuppie market (anything associated with Rove McManus, for example). His guests and game show competitors make an art form out of professing and celebrating their ignorance, and thinking that ignorance is cause for joy and general merriment. The pity is, they're rewarded (sometimes very handsomely) for this, so it gets reinforced in the minds of viewers that it's not only wonderful to be ignorant, but that it's also not OK to actually know something or give a damn about history or "the finer things of life". The ad about the father telling his son the Great Wall of China was built by Emperor Nasi Goreng in order to keep out the rabbits is another example. That was a bit of fun, and nobody would take it seriously as a history lesson, but many viewers could relate to it, which is why it's been shown for years. -- JackofOz (talk) 01:01, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I wouldn't say anti-intellectualism is backward. As far as I can tell, it's quite a modern social problem. In the past people "knew their place" and respected people that were well educated. Now being upper class is considered a bad thing and being well educated is still associated with being upper class. --Tango (talk) 01:34, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't quite agree about the class thing. There are some people who are very class-conscious, but they're in a decreasing minority. Prime Ministers are very used to being addressed by ordinary people as "Bob", "Paul", "John" or "Kevin" these days (although "Malcolm" was a little aloof and he usually got "Mr Fraser"). Going further back, it would have been unthinkable for a PM to have been addressed, or even referred to in the media, other than as "Mr <surname>", but that's all changed now. Most of the people who publicly profess their ignorance are the very people who do or would send their kids to school and ensure they get a good education so they can do even better than they themselves did. Education is seen to be about economic achievement, not about scaling class walls. -- JackofOz (talk) 01:54, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't really know about Australia, but in the UK the reduction in class-conciousness has gone so far as to end up going the other way, see reverse snobbery. That's what I was referring to. Anti-intellectualism and reverse snobbery kind of go hand-in-hand due to the (now outdated) association of the upper class with higher education. Maybe it's different in Australia, but in the UK there are a lot of poorly educated parents who do very little to encourage their children to get a good education. They send them to school, but that's about it, and sometimes don't even bother with that much. --Tango (talk) 02:47, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm also Australian, although I do suppose we would come off as a bit racist, we're overly-PC now, since Rudd and his predecessor still seemed intent on being sheep to the US. Quite sad really.Avnas Ishtaroth _{drop me a line} 03:28, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And yes, our humour is rather simplistic, crude and degrading. We did come from convicts after all! And yes, although it is a shame to admit it, we have a minority of homeless and dole bludgers even in the capitals, like Tango said in the UK, some people can't be bothered. My father went to a state school which was mostly made up of deros (derelict/juvenile delinquent) who got into fights a lot. This might have changed a bit now, I don't know the state of things in government schools. Maybe we should reinstitute corporal punishment...my father sure thinks so. Myself, my brother and I agree that we should secede from the rest of this bloody country, they nick all our wealth and resources and give us no credit for it.Avnas Ishtaroth _{drop me a line} 03:43, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Should we wait ten years before archiving this, so everyone has an opportunity to respond in the fashion they consider timely? Edison (talk) 23:42, 31 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This was asked by the AT. Fewer responses are better and deletion is the best. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 15:09, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Can I get back to you on that, say August 1st, 2018? DOR (HK) (talk) 04:30, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

the mayflower

I couldnt contact you any other ways else. so. Your page about the mayflower is wrong and i cant change it because there is a lock on the page. I have been to where the pilgrims sailed from IN ENGLAND. I am half British. The pigrims sailed from IMMINGHAM england. not southampton. I have touch the rock that is there memorial. LOOK IT UP. thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kungfu445 (talk • contribs) 20:31, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As our articles on both the Pilgrims and Immingham note, Immingham was the departure point for the Pilgrims' migration to Holland in 1608. The departure of the Mayflower to the New World was from Southampton in 1620. FiggyBee (talk) 20:43, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Which Desk to use

Where is the best desk to ask a psychology question? Science, humanities, and miscellaneous all seem to be possibles. Thanks, Wanderer57 (talk) 21:39, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

science or humanities depending on the question.87.102.86.73 (talk) 22:11, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. The question is here:

Wikipedia:Reference desk/Language#Thesarus request

Perhaps you or someone else will suggest a better place to pose the question, or answer it directly.

Thanks, Wanderer57 (talk) 00:27, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It depends on how technical of a question you have in mind. If you're looking for the action potential for a type of neuron then the science board is probably the way to go. If you're interested in psychoanalysis then the Humanities board is probably best. I'd put my money on the Humanities board but I check them all and will attempt an answer if I know enough to form a coherent response.--droptone (talk) 12:13, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]