Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2021 April 21

Welcome to the Wikipedia Humanities Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is a transcluded archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

April 21

US scenic placenames

In the US, is it an old tradition to have scenic placenames, such as Sunset Beach, Bayview, Twin Oaks, etc. (or sort of a borrowing from other country's tradition)? Thanks. 212.180.235.46 (talk) 08:34, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

The naming of places has a rich and varied history. If you can get a copy of Names on the Land, you may find it anywhere from interesting to overwhelming. The first two items you mention sound descriptive of a particular place. The third sounds like an observation of an artifact at a particular place. Many places are named for elsewhere. This is especially so in the American northeast, where many cities and counties are named for their British counterparts. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 11:11, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

Did Cambridge, say, already have a British counterpart before it was so named? —Tamfang (talk) 01:17, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

You'll find that many (if not most) place names were originally descriptive in the original language they came from; whatever the language is at the time it is named gets preserved as the placename is passed from language to language. The names can also be subtly modified by the conventions of the newer language, modifying or distorting the original pronunciation or meaning. Newer place names are more recognizably descriptive only because we tend to speak the language the placename is in, and it hasn't been distorted by linguistic change over the millenia. Many of the names in Britain are descriptors in other languages than English (such as the various Celtic languages of the island, or Norse languages, or Latin, or Norman French) or they are descriptors in older versions of English that are unfamiliar to us. Sticking with Britain, the article titled List of generic forms in place names in Ireland and the United Kingdom has a wealth of etymologies for place names in Britain (and Ireland) and you can see that MANY of the words used are geographic descriptors, like Bradford which just means "wide crossing", referring to a crossing place of the local river, or Dublin, which just means "black pool" (there is also a place in England named Blackpool, FWIW). --Jayron32 12:29, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

It must be acknowledged, though, that some of these "scenic" names (especially of newer settlements) were given by real-estate salesmen or other boosters looking to attract settlers or investments. Deor (talk) 13:41, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

Indeed, Greenland being one of the first examples of this.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 13:48, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

A millenium earlier, the Ancient Greeks originally called the Black Sea Ἄξεινος Πόντος (Áxeinos Póntos), "the Inhospitable Sea". After successful development along the coast, they renamed it Εὔξεινος Πόντος (Eúxeinos Póntos), changing the meaning to "the Hospitable Sea". For a recent example, until 1926 the tourist-trappy Turkish village Şirince, meaning "Charmingly", was named Çirkince, meaning "Uglily".  --Lambiam 17:26, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

Also see Cape of Storms. --Jayron32 17:49, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

Good old Bridgwater Forest in Winnipeg, which has no bridge, no water, and no forest. --24.76.103.169 (talk) 03:49, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

see Torpenhow Hill for an example of a geograptically descriptive place name appended to over time as the local language evolved 2A01:E34:EF5E:4640:D964:507A:629:543C (talk) 19:38, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

In the UK the Victorians were rather prone to naming or renaming places in order to sound nice, either for commercial reasons or simply out of societal decorum. So in Devon there is Westward Ho!, named after a novel that was popular at the time. In Dorset there is West Bay, previously (and logically) called Bridport Harbour. In Derbyshire there is Two Dales, previously called Toad Hole and changed at the insistence of a "squeamish rector"[1]. And not forgetting, back in Dorset, Puddletown, which while not exactly a scenic name, was considered by the Victorians to be preferable to its previous incarnation, Piddletown. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 07:59, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

One suspects that not all the Belvoirs have a beautiful view. DuncanHill (talk) 00:25, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

Jamaican Ministry of tourism

Hi all, trying to compile a list of ministers of tourism of Jamaica at User:Eddie891/ministry of tourism. It's not going super well, struggling to find a clear list. Can anyone help me fill it out, or find any more information on the department? Eric Anthony Abrahams was Director of Tourism from 1970 to 1975-- was that a different position? Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 14:21, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

The website at here is their official website, and has contact information. Perhaps there is a department historian or someone else at the extensive contacts list who could help you research the answers to your questions. --Jayron32 14:40, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

This article refers to both "Tourism Minister Edmund Bartlett" and "Tourism Director John Lynch", so these are different positions. The latter is said to be "head of the Jamaica Hotels and Tourist Association", so it appears that he is not a civil servant.  --Lambiam 16:06, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

A couple small additions, but still not a list, sorry. (1) “After the change of government in October 1980, the tourism portfolio was, for the first time in the nation’s history, invested in a separate Ministry” and “Following elections in 1980… The establishment of a separate Ministry with the sole focus on tourism ” (that source also traces earlier developments from the Tourist Board Act of 1955). (2) Patterson’s memories of being minister of Industry, Tourism and Foreign Trade [2]. 70.67.193.176 (talk) 17:02, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks all so far (I had no luck with the contact info-- wouldn't let me send an email). Specifically now, can anyone confirm A) was Aloun Ndombet-Assamba tourism minister from 2003 to 2012 and B) Who was minister from 1992 to 1995? Otherwise, the list might be completish, though not seeing how Patterson fits into this all... Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 23:39, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

As to A), she is identified here as being the Minister on July 11, 2007, while Bartlett took office on September 15, 2007, so the end date 2012 is not correct.  --Lambiam 12:21, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

Right, right-- meant to say 2003 to 2007 (we know Bartlett was around for the years after). Good catch! Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 15:25, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

P.J. Patterson is mentioned as Minister of Industry and Tourism as of August 1972 here: --Soman (talk) 12:53, 25 April 2021 (UTC)