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February 8

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LETTER L WITH MIDDLE DOT images

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Image:LATIN CAPITAL LETTER L WITH MIDDLE DOT.png (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Friviere (notify | contribs).
Image:LATIN SMALL LETTER L WITH MIDDLE DOT.png (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Friviere (notify | contribs).
But why isn't it currently used in any Wikipedia pages? Badagnani (talk) 19:24, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Not to mention that those two characters are considered today to be mistakes inherited by Unicode from a legacy encoding made without input from Catalans, so I hardly call "Ŀ" a sign of Catalan culture. "L·" perhaps, but it's use in Catalan is dealt with already in the article about "·" Caerwine Caer’s whines 20:33, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Rivers_and_Dave.jpg

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Image:Rivers_and_Dave.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Egg_Creations (notify | contribs).

Image:RiversCuomo_Weezer.jpg

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Image:RiversCuomo_Weezer.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Phxtri (notify | contribs).
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was:

Image:01AwcAX06iTrgAAAABAAAAAAAAAAA_.jpg

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Deleted by Nv8200p Compwhiz II(Talk)(Contribs) 21:25, 11 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:01AwcAX06iTrgAAAABAAAAAAAAAAA_.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Devin.laneop (notify | contribs).
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Image:06.JPG

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Image:06.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Rusky_26 (notify | contribs).

Image:06081011.JPG

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Image:06081011.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Dark_Horse_King (notify | contribs).

Image:074.JPG

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Image:074.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Stratt-daddy (notify | contribs).

Image:08102007402.jpg

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Image:08102007402.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Nabihaqc (notify | contribs).

Image:101_0017.jpg

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Image:101_0017.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by CamieD (notify | contribs).

Image:12_o_clock.jpg

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Image:12_o_clock.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Kevmo7 (notify | contribs).

Image:120306_11551.jpg

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Image:120306_11551.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Led2life (notify | contribs).

Image:122152536.jpg

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Image:122152536.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Iamwisesun (notify | contribs).

Image:1244251419_2d24b03c56.jpg

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Image:1244251419_2d24b03c56.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Jd.101 (notify | contribs).


Image:Orcafeedseal.jpg

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Image:Orcafeedseal.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Bobisbob (notify | contribs).
  • There is no source or author information. The uploader says it is in the public domain, however it looks like a recent, professionally shot image. Probably this is a case in which other sites are using the image, so it was assumed to be free. Kla’quot (talk | contribs) 04:26, 8 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: I have been told by someone who used it that the photo is a still from a film of an orca bull charging up on the beach and grabbing and tossing around a seal lion pup (which escaped) and that the photo has been in the public domain for many years. Bobisbob (talk) 20:47, 8 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think think you could be right about it being from a film. It looks to me like an image from a BBC TV series narrated by David Attenborough. I am not sure which series but it could be the Living Planet. If so it will still be in copyright and not public domain. Probably Heisenberg (talk) 21:30, 11 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete: The image is from the BBC´s living Planet series where Orca´s from four areas of the world are presented - Tysfjord Norway, Northern New zealand, Johnstone Straights and Punte Del Norte In Patagonia. As such, the image is copyrighted and not under public domain. SammytheSeal (talk) 14:48, 15 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Further discussion : Unless the website Bobisbob quotes as having given permission to use the image via CC can show provenence to the copyright of the image, it should be removed. Copyright of imagery from the BBC Living planet series remains with the BBC NHU. SammytheSeal (talk) 15:07, 16 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:This_one_mrs_davis.jpg

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Image:This_one_mrs_davis.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by JasonG (notify | contribs).

Image:Bg1.jpg

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Image:Bg1.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by JasonG (notify | contribs).

Image:12498616848641684682.jpg

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Image:12498616848641684682.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by JasonG (notify | contribs).

Image:Rt4.jpg

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Image:Rt4.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by JasonG (notify | contribs).

Image:Hfgdangf5.jpg

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Image:Hfgdangf5.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by JasonG (notify | contribs).

Image:Fdsagfdah6.jpg

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Image:Fdsagfdah6.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by JasonG (notify | contribs).

Image:Beckham2_copy.jpg

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Image:Beckham2_copy.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by JasonG (notify | contribs).

Image:Beckham3.jpg

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Image:Beckham3.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by JasonG (notify | contribs).

Image:1315782916_6156c922b3.jpg

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Image:1315782916_6156c922b3.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Jd.101 (notify | contribs).

Image:1325367145_ed7a39c319.jpg

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Image:1325367145_ed7a39c319.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Zkce4 (notify | contribs).

Image:13th_cet_orig.jpg

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Image:13th_cet_orig.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Jjykim (notify | contribs).
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was:

Image:Jonathan Jon Pye z1.JPG

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Deleted by Ryulong Compwhiz II(Talk)(Contribs) 21:24, 11 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Jonathan Jon Pye z1.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Dark Horse King (notify | contribs).
Image:Jonathan Jon Pye z8.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs)
Image:Jonathan Jon Pye JLS.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs)
Image:Jonathan Jon Pye 9.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs)
Image:Jonathan Jon Pye 8.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs)
Image:Jonathan Jon Pye 7.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs)
Image:Jonathan Jon Pye 6b.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs)
Image:Jonathan Jon Pye 6a.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs)
Image:Jonathan Jon Pye 5b.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs)
Image:Jonathan Jon Pye 5a.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs)
Image:Jonathan Jon Pye 4.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs)
Image:Jonathan Jon Pye 3b.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs)
Image:Jonathan Jon Pye 2.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs)
Image:Jonathan Jon Pye 16.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs)
Image:Jonathan Jon Pye 15.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs)
Image:Jonathan Jon Pye 14.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs)
Image:Jonathan Jon Pye 13.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs)
Image:Jonathan Jon Pye 12.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs)
Image:Jonathan Jon Pye 11.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs)
Image:Jonathan Jon Pye 1.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs)
Image:Jonnnnn.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs)
Image:Bwww.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs)
Image:Jonnnnn.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs)
Image:Jon Pye 2007.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs)
Image:2006 0907ev20031.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs)
Image:Drama exam4.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs)
Image:PICT0086 - Copy (6).JPG (delete | talk | history | logs)
Image:JeffreeLondon.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs)
Image:LondonStickam.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Image:000 3412.jpg

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Image:000 3412.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Scapegracex (notify | contribs).

Image:3am.JPG

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Image:3am.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Waqcku (notify | contribs).

Image:Akhand Bharat.jpg

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Image:Akhand Bharat.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Ravichandar84 (notify | contribs).

Image:CrawfordsCornerSeries.jpg

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Image:CrawfordsCornerSeries.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Russharris (notify | contribs).

Image:CreationMuseum13.png

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Image:CreationMuseum13.png (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Anthony5429 (notify | contribs).

Image:DaleJarrettCar.jpg

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Image:DaleJarrettCar.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by RadicalBender (notify | contribs).

Image:Ettuveedan.jpg

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Image:Ettuveedan.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Malayaliyan (notify | contribs).

Image:Jonathan Jon Pye 10.JPG

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Image:Jonathan Jon Pye 10.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Dark Horse King (notify | contribs).

Image:Languages Of Europe.png

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Image:Languages Of Europe.png (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Exttreme (notify | contribs).

Image:Lundy24511.png

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Image:Lundy24511.png (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Caltrop (notify | contribs).
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section. 
Kept. —Remember the dot (talk) 05:48, 15 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Newspapers.jpg

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Image:Newspapers.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Gilabrand (notify | contribs).
Sorry, but I don't know what the problem is. I see no reason why the photo should be deleted. It was discussed about a year ago, and no one has challenged it since then.--Gilabrand (talk) 21:18, 9 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Image:P-is-true.gif

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Image:P-is-true.gif (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Gregbard (notify | contribs).

Image:Priceright500.jpg

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Image:Priceright500.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Webfan29 (notify | contribs).

Image:Sanal kumar.jpg

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Image:Sanal kumar.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Adv. P. R. Bijuchandran (notify | contribs).

Image:Sprawltownroadplan.gif

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Image:Sprawltownroadplan.gif (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Strongbad1982 (notify | contribs).

Image:The-Triumph-of-David.jpg

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Image:The-Triumph-of-David.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Demagee (notify | contribs).

Image:Token ring.png

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Image:Token ring.png (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Magnus Andersson (notify | contribs).

Image:Usama Amir.JPG

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Image:Usama Amir.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Usama Amir (notify | contribs).

Image:Vacation 20183.jpg

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Image:Vacation 20183.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Geena db (notify | contribs).

Image:Vacher2.jpg

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Image:Vacher2.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Matthieu Poisson (notify | contribs).

Image:Werner Erhard Larry King Live.jpg

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Image:Werner Erhard Larry King Live.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Smee (notify | contribs).

Image:A Defecit of Decency.jpg

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Image:A Defecit of Decency.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Yetiwriter (notify | contribs).
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was:

Image:Waterboard3-small.jpg

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Image:Waterboard3-small.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by TopRank (notify | contribs).
It could be replaced if a Wikipedian drew a similar image. It is not being used to illustrate any specific waterboarding currently, it is being used to illustrate what waterboarding looks like generally in the upper right corner of Waterboarding and enhanced interrogation technique. Calliopejen1 (talk) 20:02, 8 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
And since the definition of waterboaring is contested, then that would open the door to an Original Research war. This image is uncontested as a depiction of waterboarding, and so it's irreplaceable at this time. Lawrence § t/e 20:07, 8 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Can we not avoid original research by simply drawing a very similar image? Calliopejen1 (talk) 20:36, 8 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
As the present photograph is acceptable under fair use, as it is a historic image and thus irreplaceable, what is the benefit to Wikipedia of replacing it? Lawrence § t/e 20:38, 8 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The same benefit as the whole idea of having a free encyclopedia--that if we create a free image to replace it, that image can be reused and distributed by anyone without any copyright problems. Calliopejen1 (talk) 20:46, 8 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It's clear that the primary reason Vann Nath painted this was to ensure that the activities that transpired in the Tuol Sleng Prison during the Khmer Rouge regime would be known, both in Cambodia and in the world. As such, this photograph of his painting is absolutely valuable, necessary, and irreplaceable--and (though he is not in good health), I am sure Nath would agree. Badagnani (talk) 20:49, 8 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I don't doubt that, but Wikipedia's mission is to make free information available to the world. Since we are using this image instead of creating our own, there are no free images of waterboarding anywhere. See my compromise proposal below. Calliopejen1 (talk) 21:00, 8 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Elian Gonzalez and the Kent State shootings have similarly irreplaceable, historically important fair use images. Images of actual waterboarding are extremely rare, and the Vann Nath image is similarly irreplaceable. Badagnani (talk) 21:30, 8 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
But this article is not about one historical instance of waterboarding, it's about the practice as a whole. There's no dispute about what waterboarding looks like, which is what the top image is meant to show. We don't need to use a copyrighted image when we have multiple historical photos and paintings that can be used as sources for an accurate original image. Calliopejen1 (talk) 23:32, 8 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
This article includes a section on the historical uses of waterboarding. (Hypnosadist) 23:39, 8 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The painting is displayed in a torture museum in Cambodia and was likely painted by a Cambodian. These facts about the painting and the photograph convey extra information and provide context about the history and use of waterboarding beyond the mere depiction of waterboarding itself. While other depictions might augment the understanding of waterboarding, they could not substitute for the specific context that this particular image provides. Turantual (talk) 16:21, 9 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong keep - The image is an irreplaceable depiction of waterboarding, as practiced by the Khmer Rouge, and no other similar depiction is available. An image drawn by a Wikipedian would not have the authenticity of this painting, actually painted by one of the half-dozen or so survivors of Cambodia's most notorious Khmer Rouge prison, where waterboarding was routinely practiced. Badagnani (talk) 20:06, 8 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Good idea, yes. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 21:13, 8 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - The museum is likely not "wired" for email. I saw Nath interviewed briefly on an episode of Globe Trekker recently (which was probably filmed a couple of years ago). I assume he still lives near there. But even if we had someone go there to meet him and ask for the use of a photo of his painting, I'm sure he'd say, "Do whatever you want with it," then explain the reason why he painted it and placed it on display in the museum in the first place (so that the world would know what happened there). We have to be thoughtful and reasonable in everything we do. Badagnani (talk) 20:36, 9 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Spot-on nomination. I could see this image being used if accompanied by sourced critical commentary of the specific event at the Tuol Sleng article or as an example of the art style and human rights activism of Vann Nath, but there is no question that its current usage at waterboarding satisfies the Wikipedia definition of replaceability. A free license sketch or diagram of the waterboarding apparatus would be far more informative, you could even go as far as to appropriate this free photo to illustrate the basic concept. ˉˉanetode╦╩ 10:16, 12 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That picture is of a weights bench and cement mixer, any sources to say those are used to waterboard? (Hypnosadist) 12:54, 14 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Your insistence on using primary sources for procuring illustrations would eliminate nearly all user-generated media from Wikipedia. At some point you're just arguing that ceci n'est pas une pipe. That said, the flickr link is indeed a horrible substitute (even though a weight bench and cement mixer could suffice for a waterboarding apparatus). ˉˉanetode╦╩ 16:35, 14 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
When we have a high quality primary source it should be used in preference to user-generated media. One has genuine histroical notability the other is made up by some-one who has never been waterboarded, seen it happen and is not a notable person in thier own right. (Hypnosadist) 13:12, 16 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • strong keep and opposition to compromise This is an image that holds authority, unlike a depiction by someone that's never seen it occur. It's valid under fair use and in my opinion removing it or replacing it with a non-authoritative drawing would damage the article. 82.27.27.18 (talk) 11:19, 14 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. The image itself seems to adequately fulfill all the requirements of "fair use" and it not only has significance as an illustrative tool but it's artistic significance conveys a level of truth and meaning that would be missing in a graphic produced by an anonymous WP contributor. Geeman (talk) 01:28, 16 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. No inherent WP:NFCC problem as far as I can see, and is a virtually unmissable way to clarify the topic at hand. --Francis Schonken (talk) 09:34, 16 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Keep and Opposition to Compromise This is historically important, and contains vastly more communicative value than a novel drawing can ever contain. Moreover, it is free to use, according to the photographer, so the compromise is pointless. Aminorex (talk) 15:24, 16 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep but suggest perhaps tweaking the brightness and contrast for visibility. ~ UBeR (talk) 17:50, 16 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete absolutely. This is not a historical photo, it's a non-free photo of a generic artwork. It is completely replacable, and there is no possible fair use rationale. ➪HiDrNick! 20:24, 16 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
"This is not a historical photo" No what is in the photo (the painting) is of historical importance. "generic artwork" No this is a piece of art by someone who was waterboarded on that very piece of equipment depicted. Read Vann Nath. (Hypnosadist) 21:06, 16 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
No, Image:Tank Man (Tiananmen Square protester).jpg is a historical photo that qualifies for fair use under the policies of Wikipedia. It is irreplacable. That fact that the artist was himself tortured in this manner doesn't deminish his copyright under the law. We can find a free substitute. ➪HiDrNick! 23:00, 16 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
And if an admin would contact him you could get his permision, he gave the picture to the Cambodian holocaust museum to promote the knowledge of these events. Its freely displayed there by the now owners.(Hypnosadist) 23:07, 16 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
As for the historical nature of this event, in Vann Naths prison camp S-21 14,000 people entered, 7 Left! That makes Tianamen square look like the small meaningless political demo. This was part of the mass-murder of over two million people. Thats historical notability. (Hypnosadist) 23:17, 16 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image kept. At this point in time, I believe this image is not replaceable with a free image. Any drawing would either be a derivative or original research. -Nv8200p talk 01:06, 17 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was:

Image:DSC07505.JPG

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Image:DSC07505.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by BrendelSignature (notify | contribs).
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Image:Siam tulip.jpg

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Image:Siam tulip.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Kaety (notify | contribs).
  • This is a very nice picture, and I'd hate to lose it. Unfortunately, the user who uploaded the photo retracted their initial GFDL release. Since this picture is replaceable, we should honor the uploader's change of license and delete the image from Wikipedia. —Remember the dot (talk) 23:39, 8 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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