Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2013 July 24

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July 24

Second Article

An article I submitted is in my sandbox and pending approval. I want to offer a second article but when I go to the sandbox all it offers is the chance to edit my previous article not offer a new one. Can I get directions. Thank you. Susanpeabody490 (talk) 00:33, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Try creating the second draft in a subpage of your user page. The format is [[User:name of user/subpage]]. Howicus (talk) 00:41, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

You can have an unlimited number (theoretically) of sandboxes under your username. For instance, User:Susanpeabody490/sandbox1, User:Susanpeabody490/sandbox2, etc. Dismas|^(talk) 00:50, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Wouldn't let me create an article

What version of internet explorer do I have to have to create an article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.79.7.15 (talk) 01:38, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Only registered users may create an article. See WP:ACCOUNT for how to sign up. RudolfRed (talk) 01:40, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Ok, never mind then. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.79.7.15 (talk) 01:49, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

If you are very determined not to sign up, you can still create an article through the much-criticised WP:AfC process. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 02:10, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Ok, I do not know how to cite sources at all and WP:RS and WP:REFB didn't help me at all!!!!

I have gone through a series of debates on the Sasanian Empire and 1 person on the talk page refuses to grasp that my map is more accurate and how I have so many sources to back it up. However, I do not know how to cite book sources and WP:RS and WP:REFB didn't help me worth a darn! I am here at the Wikipedia help desk because I need specific help from people who are experts or even masters at citing sources may they be websites or books. I know how to link the websites and books, but I do not know how to cite them! Please help me!

On a side note, I will keep on debating on not just the Sasanian Empire, but any HRE and Russian as well no matter how much it aggravates people! Because when it comes to a debate such as the map of the Sasanian Empire or any other topic, IT IS A DEBATE THAT I AM WILLING TO AND WILL WIN NO MATTER WHAT THE COST! And if there is to be an edit war despite the rules, THEN I WILL WIN THAT EDIT WAR AND QUASH THE RESITANCE!!!!!!

P.S. I AM EXTREMELY SORRY FOR THAT SIDE REMARK!, I just lost my temper due to having a really bad day. I didn't mean most of that. :) Keeby101 (talk) 03:11, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Don't engage in an edit war, no matter how much you think you should "win". If you're having trouble with an editor, follow the guidance at WP:DR. RudolfRed (talk) 03:27, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

If Help:Referencing for beginners didn't help you, please explain at what point you got confused, or exactly what you were trying to do (and how far you got with it) when you decided that the page did not answer your questions. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 03:36, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

See Template:Cite web and Template:Cite book. Just stick a <ref> at the front of one, fill out the details and end it with </ref>. And put the whole thing beside anything your source backs up. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:55, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

If you are really determined to win an edit war (an attitude that is not recommended), you had better learn to use references. Otherwise you will be marching into battle with no ammunition in your rifle. Maproom (talk) 06:56, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia makes citing sources fairly easy. When you compose an edit, the top of the edit window has a variety of shortcuts: Bold, Italic, signature insert, link, etc. At the end of the row is the Cite shortcut. Click that, select what type of template you want (web, news, book, journal) and fill in the fields. If you need more fields, click Show Extra Fields. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 13:58, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Problem with a Wikipedia user who has undone edits by other users

I’ve experienced a problem with a Wikipedia user who muscled his way into the editing of a disambiguation page and completely reversed the formatted layout and addition of new information.

This disambiguation page was created in October 2010. Because the information in the page now had links to several books with similarity in their titles — plus the addition of tv show and tv episodes with same — the page was recently upgraded to a new formatted layout with categories as follows:

Books

Graphic Novel

Film and Television

Today, the Wikipedia user in question — who had no prior history of involvement in the page — not only reversed the layout back to the old style of a list without categories ... but in so doing caused a new cited/linked addition to the page to be deleted.

What recourse is there in Wikipedia to handle a user who undoes everything other users have done?

Pyxis Solitary (talk) 04:23, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Editing and reverting are all part of the "bold, revert, discuss" cycle. If your changes have been reverted, then discuss it on the article's talk page. RudolfRed (talk) 04:47, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Taking a look at the edit summary will also help you see the other editors intentions. At a guess this is the one you're referring to - [1] CaptRik (talk) 11:48, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Path from proposed policy to policy

I'm a long time editor, but I've been offline for a while. I have proposed[2] that Wikipedia:Wikipedia is an encyclopedia be either returned to or finally accepted as (opinions disagree) an official WP:Policy of the project. Can anyone help me through how that process currently works? It's been about ~4.5 years since I last helped complete the formal process of turning a proposal into a policy, and I have completely forgotten where to begin (e.g. there used to be a community notice template). Any suggestions as to how to get more community feedback on what the status of WP:ENC, first created in November, 2005, which only somewhat recently got marked as an WP:Essay, should be would be very appreciated. Thanks! -- Kendrick7^talk 06:19, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

I think the best would be to propose this change at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals) to get feedback from the wider community. -- Toshio Yamaguchi 13:01, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

See WP:PROPOSAL for more ideas. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:05, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! -- Kendrick7^talk 01:05, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

how to use reference list

References

See Help:Referencing for beginners. I fixed your first reference to properly use <ref>...</ref> and added {{reflist-talk}} to make the reflist show on this talk page. Use {{reflist}} in articles. --  Gadget850 ^talk 08:52, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Using equations with <math> - cannot enter subscripts?

I am attempting to enter some mathematical equations using the <math> </math> feature. Between these delimiters, the  does not work for entering subscripts. Can you tell me how to enter subscripts in an equation when <math> is being used?

I use "Edit source" and:

$S_{2}={\frac {nLi_CR}{1-{\frac {1}{(1+i_CR)^{n}}}}}$

According to Help:Displaying a formula, you need an underscore to signal the subscript, and curly braces for a multi-character subscript:

$S_{2}={\frac {nLi_{CR}}{1-{\frac {1}{(1+i_{CR})^{n}}}}}$

-- John of Reading (talk) 10:27, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

TO find the admin person or help me to edit the US Embassy page

Dear Sir/Madam, I need to update the US Embassy page on wikipedia (United States Ambassador to Tajikistan), since i am not the admin person for that page i cant add a box or change the image with the new Ambassador picture. I have created an acount but its a bid difficult to do the same thing on that new page and be the admin person for that page. Is it possible if you can help me to find the admin person for this page: United States Ambassador to Tajikistan or simply help me or guide me how should i insert a box as well as change picture and some othe minor changes in that page. This is an official information for the US Embassy page.

Thank you so much and waiting for your soon reply

with best regards, soro — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zolushka 78 (talk • contribs) 11:19, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Anyone can edit United States Ambassador to Tajikistan by clicking the "Edit source" tab. Articles don't have an "admin person" or anyone else controlling the content. You can change the picture by changing the file name in "image = Kenneth E Gross Jr ambassador.jpg", but the image has to be uploaded first. You can upload an image with a free license at Commons:Special:UploadWizard. Which box do you want to insert? PrimeHunter (talk) 11:37, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Page Updates

Dear Wikipedia,

I would like to confirm that I am 'Ursula Holden Gill' - British Actress and Storyteller / Musician and that I recently asked my designer to amend my Wikipedia page because much of the information that was on it was either incorrect (my date of birth, where I'd trained) or was long out of date. Being misrepresented in this way was causing me no end of problems! I would be grateful if you could remove the "warning" sign that has appeared at the top of my page, since my designer made the necessary changes two days ago. I assure you that all the information is now accurate and relevant to who I am and what I do.

Yours gratefully, Ursula Holden Gill. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.240.227.45 (talk) 12:54, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

I have done some reformatting, removed the tags but added a new one. It is preferable for sources to be used as footnotes rather than dumped in as a list of external links. For conflict of interest reasons, if you think further changes should be made, please ask your representative to discuss them first on the article's talk page.--ukexpat (talk) 13:38, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Confusion on Date of Birth

Hi,

In this following page I observed two different Born dates.

Dayasiri Jayasekara

Under personal details in small right side box it is marked as 12 June and under Early life it is marked as 26 June.

Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.241.179.116 (talk) 13:54, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

YFixed - Thanks for pointing it out ツ Jenova20 ^(email) 14:28, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

I've found his DoB on the Parliament of Sri Lanka website: 12-06-1969. [3]. I'll add the reference This reference is now cited. AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:30, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Mobile edits

Is this edit marked as a mobile edit? Howicus (talk) 14:34, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

How about this one? Howicus (talk) 14:35, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Both are so please stop spamming the desk. Check the "View history" tab at the top of the page to see. Thanks ツ Jenova20 ^(email) 14:38, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

I made two edits for a reason. The first one I used the mobile version of Wikipedia, the second I used the desktop version while on my phone. Howicus (talk) 14:54, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

They all show up as mobile edits...Something must be giving the game away that you're using a phone, although i have no idea what it is. Thanks ツ Jenova20 ^(email) 16:28, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

In future, you can use your sandbox for trying out that sort of thing, and bring any questions arising from it here so we can answer them. Thanks.  drewmunn  talk  17:46, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Uploading Logo

Hello,

There is an out of date image being used for World Financial Group and I have been working closely with their marketing team. I have their most recent logo and was hoping to upload it to page. Since I am not a confirmed user I don't believe I can do this quit yet but I wanted to check to see if there were other methods of getting this image uploaded.

Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Csf100 (talk • contribs) 14:41, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

You can upload it here (NOT to the Wikimedia Commons) under Fair Use once you are Autoconfirmed, or someone else can do it for you. If no one else volunteers then I can do it later today, just provide a link to it here to simplify things. Thanks ツ Jenova20 ^(email) 14:46, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

I uploaded a new version of File:WFG logo.jpg. It still shows the old version in the article though. It may take a while for the cache to clear.--Canoe1967 (talk) 15:45, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Possible COI? Newbie wanting to check before proceeding

I'm new to the editing side of the Wikipedia community, and I want to be sure I'm reading the rules correctly. I'm an intern for an author, and I would like to spruce up her Wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._L._LaFevers). At the moment, the page in question is bare bones and many years out of date. All I want to add is basic biographical information, factual updates on starred review from Kirkus and the like, and the more recent additions to her bibliography. I would also like to start pages for her more recent books (just bare-bones synopses) so that at least something exists.

However, I don't want to violate Conflict of Interest policies. I have no interest in adding anything to the current page that isn't strictly factual and can't be verified by outside sources. I don't want to use Wikipedia as a source of promotion. That being said, I realize my title as an intern for said author could cause problems, despite the fact that I was a fan long before I was an intern.

If COI won't be an issue, I'll trust you all to tell me. If it is, what is the simplest way for me to get the ball rolling so that the page can be updated by someone else?

Many thanks!

S22m90 (talk) 16:11, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for asking here first, instead of going ahead and editing. I have to tell you that conflict of interest will be a problem. The best way to get the ball rolling is for you to list the changes you want on the article's talk page, saying that you are her intern. Then unbiased editors can make the changes, or not, as they judge best. Maproom (talk) 16:20, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

And please do not start pages for any of her books unless they individually meet the criteria of notability. In any case, because f your Conflict of Interest, if you do start a page connected with her, you should go through the WP:AFC process. --ColinFine (talk) 16:30, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

@S22m90: Our conflict of interest guideline is here. You can ask for help from experts at the conflict of interest noticeboard; sometimes when a person posts on an article talk page, no one responds, so it's good to have other places to ask for a response. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 04:05, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Image donations

I feel we have a major problem with readers wanting to donate images. Wikipedia:FAQ/Readers and Wikipedia:FAQ index either don't mention them or they are a few links away. Wikipedia:WikiProject Images and Media is not very active so I thought I would mention it here. This is where most readers end up when they have images to donate. Some of the other issues I noticed are Wikipedia:Uploading images is very complex and tagged as such. What we probably need are links in Help:Contents, which I tried adding and it was reverted, as well as links in the FAQ pages to a simple page for readers. This simple page could mention copyright and free license issues as well as the difference between fair use here (logo updates) and free license at commons. It seems every time they ask here they are either flogged for being COI subjects or given links and advice that are too tedious for them. Thoughts?--Canoe1967 (talk) 16:45, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

I agree. For someone wanting to donate a few images, the process of upoading them is far too hard. I doubt it can actually be made easy, but it could be easier than it is. I have written a rant about it over on Commons. Maproom (talk) 18:45, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

They can always be e-mailed to photosubmission(AT)wikimedia.org - is that mentioned in the documentation?--ukexpat (talk) 18:52, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

To return to the larger question, Help:Contents very specifically say:

For contributing images, audio, or video files, see the Introduction to uploading images. Then the Upload wizard will guide you through that process.

I looked at the Introduction to uploading images, briefly. It seemed well written. If it's incomplete, then (per the talk page) it seems you should propose improvements at Wikipedia:Help Project. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 04:00, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

• The main issue with some the answers above is they need an account to upload. What we need is an easier process and more obvious links to photosubmission(AT)wikimedia.org. Most times they follow our instructions, create an account, insert their new image, and then get stomped on for COI. They may be assuming that is the only route because we keep directing them to create accounts and edit their own articles on most of our help pages. See the change I made that was reverted less than 10 min later. We discussed it at Help_talk:Contents#Images but that stalled out.--Canoe1967 (talk) 19:10, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Oops, almost forgot, there's also WP:FFU.--ukexpat (talk) 19:21, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

That is a confusing mess as well. Click "Submit a Request" there to start jumping more hoops. What me may need is a new project group: 'Picture donations'. Subjects can then place a request there as they do on other pages. We can go to their articles, find their email, 'splain to Lucy about the licensing stuff, link them to OTRS, upload the image, check on OTRS, etc.--Canoe1967 (talk) 19:36, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Filtering random articles

Is there a tool that allows you to pull random articles from a certain category, or group of categories? Say I want to work on a random german food article, a random unsourced article, or both (a random unsourced german food article). Are there tools that allow you to see where these categories intersect, and/or allow you to pull a random article for a specific group, instead of from Wikipedia as a whole? --TKK! bark with me if you're my dog! 16:48, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

You can use tools:~erwin85/randomarticle.php, which is slower than Special:Random, but you can use it to enter multiple categories and it will select a random article from those choices, like this. (I'm not sure if that works because it took to long to process.) Also, you can use the very flexible CatScan to show a list of all articles with those conditions. ~HueSatLum 17:35, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

My Web Site URL

I have a new web site but don't know how to add its address to your Robert Silverberg entry. Please add it for me.

Robert Silverberg Web Site: www.robert-silverberg.com — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.169.62.194 (talk) 17:22, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

I added the new one and removed the old one.--Canoe1967 (talk) 18:37, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

 Done

Unable to create references

I think my article is rejected because I can't create references. I hit cite, then in the scroll I hit web or article and there is no template. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RebeccaClancy (talk • contribs) 20:51, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Maybe Wikipedia:Referencing for beginners would help you out. Dismas|^(talk) 22:41, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Overflagging

Hey, I just made some edits to The Big Bang Theory in the Broadcast section. Most of the references are no longer any good, as they don't prove any of the information that precedes them, and I was unable to verify the info via the Wayback Machine in a few of the cases. I added {{better}} tags, but now it looks stupid. What do my fellow editors think? Should I delete all the dead links (and tags) and add a section cleanup template from WP:TMC or delete the references and add {{citation needed}} templates? Or...? Thanks, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 21:20, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Guideline is to not delete dead references. Mark them with {{dead link}} but leave them in place. See the template page for how to use deadlink tag on references. RudolfRed (talk) 23:24, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Cool, thanks for the info. Follow-up question: the links don't 404, but they just don't contain the information they are purported to contain. For example, this reference is a general information page for the series and may have had the show's premiere date at one time, but no longer does. Is that considered a dead link or just a bad reference? Thanks Cyphoidbomb (talk) 01:07, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb: If you can replace a presumably-useful-at-one-time link with a better one, then it's fine to delete the old one, of course. Otherwise, I'd be inclined to hide the link: <!-- link goes here , with a note saying that link is no longer useful -->. That keeps open the option that someone else will successfully use the Wayback Machine to find a better link; it also keeps open the possibility of someone searching the website that the link came from, looking for a different page, one that does support the information that the current url does not. And it hides a misleading link from the reader. (On the other hand, if this breaks a cite web template, that's not so good.) -- John Broughton (♫♫) 03:49, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

@John Broughton: Good notes, I appreciate the help. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:02, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

If a reference does not support what it is being used to support, the {{Failed verification}} tag can be used.--ukexpat (talk) 15:05, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

ad hoax

Someone posted an ad for a 42" free TV in my name which does not exist, and I'd like to have it removed. It listed my name as Joe @ (Redacted).

Can you help me to flag it?

Thanks! Joe — Preceding unsigned comment added by JF21 (talk • contribs) 21:22, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

If this is about a Wikipedia page then please give a link to it. I suspect, based on your question, that you found one of our over 4 million articles and thought we were affiliated in some way with that subject. Please note that you are at Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia that anyone can edit, and this page is for asking questions related to using or contributing to Wikipedia itself. Thus, we have no special knowledge about the subject of your question. You can, however, search our vast catalogue of articles by typing a subject into the search field on the upper right side of your screen. If you cannot find what you are looking for, we have a reference desk, divided into various subject areas, where asking knowledge questions is welcome. Best of luck. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:31, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Personal info redacted. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 22:01, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

ruby color

The definition of the color of ruby is incorrect. If you send a pink ruby to GIA or any gem lab they will send it back to you and tell you it's a pink sapphire. although they are both corundum Pink is a sapphire, RED is a ruby. It has to be predominately red or it will NOT be classified as a ruby. It has to be RED to be a ruby. And it has to be obviously RED not pink. To tell people that it ranges from pink to red is incorrect. Please correct this in the definition of RUBY. The reason RUBY is so rare is because of it's red color. There is no such thing as a pink ruby. I am a certified Gemologist graduate from GIA and the definition of ruby is incorrect. The source for this information is available from GIA or any gem lab. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Iliffave (talk • contribs) 23:32, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Hello Iliffave! If you are a registered gemologist, you probably have in your possession a textbook, industry magazine, etc., that states the facts about the ruby and pink sapphire. If you do, please add a reference to the book or whatever you have, and then change the wording to agree with your source. If you just change the text, someone may change it back, but if you add an authorative source the change will be accepted. —Anne Delong (talk) 23:43, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Pink is acceptable for a ruby in most of the world but not in the US. This is explained at Ruby#Color. Maproom (talk) 06:23, 25 July 2013 (UTC)