Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2011 November 27

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November 27

Incorrect movie reference

I'm new to Wikipedia, hence my ignorance on how best to approach this problem: I'm watching "Support Your Local Sheriff" with James Garner on television. I brought up Wikipedia to read more about the movie. The synopsis is excellent...for the movie "Support Your Local Gunfighter" also starring Garner. The synopsis for "Support Your Local Gunfighter" is for "Support Your Local Sheriff". The two articles have been swapped.

What would be the best (most efficient or accepted method) of swapping these articles?

I could "cut & paste", but before I make a massive change like this, I thought I should get some advice. Unless someone has a better idea, I thought I would open two tabs in my browser, one for each page, then cut 'n' paste as needed.

Oldguy99 (talk) 00:26, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

They appear to be correct as-is. The IMDb plot for Support Your Local Gunfighter matches our plot, and the IMDb plot for Support Your Local Sheriff! matches our plot as well. Albacore (talk) 01:46, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! I'm glad someone is paying attention...apparently the on-line guide (and me) was wrong. It makes sense in retrospect, because the movie I watched was about Jack Elam impersonating a gunfighter. In "...Sheriff", Garner was hired as the sheriff.

Oldguy99 (talk) 02:00, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

USE OF WIKIPEDIA

HOW DO I SEEK IFORMATION FROM WIKIPEDIA? DO I NEED TO REGISTER? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.28.220.19 (talk) 02:24, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

There is a search box at the top right. See Help:Searching. Registration is not needed. It has benefits but doesn't enable a user to see more. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:32, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Firstly, please stop SHOUTING.

Secondly, at the end of a message on a discussion page such as this, please remember to sign your message, either using 4 tildes ~~~~ or the signature button on the edit toolbar.

Thirdly, you have found one of the places to seek information from Wikipedia. The foot of this and other pages has a contact us link, giving places to contact Wikipedia depending on what your question is.

Fourthly, you don't need to register, but there are advantages in doing so. - David Biddulph (talk) 02:35, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Your caplock key might have been locked down, when you wrote that question. All in capital letters is called "shouting", online. Registering as an editor is easy and fun, and it lets people get back to you so you can learn more easily. Entwhiz (talk) 12:07, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Is there supposed to be another word?

Hello to all publishers and helpers of wikipedia.

On the page where there is "A personal appeal from programmer Jimmy Harris" there seems to be a word missing... Wikipedia is the 5th most visited website in the world. I work at the small non-profit that keeps it on the web. We don’t run ads text

In the 4th Paragraph From the page located at: https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:FundraiserLandingPage?uselang=en&country=AU

Is there supposed to be another word; or does he work at "The small non-profit" that keeps them on the web. It seems like there should be the word 'Office' in there somewhere.

Just pointing it out. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.167.246.228 (talk) 03:10, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Earlier the page says "a highly-efficient not-for-profit organization". I think it's OK for the later occurrence to use "non-profit" as a noun. See wikt:non-profit#Noun. PrimeHunter (talk) 03:56, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

He works "at the small non-profit that keeps them on the web" is fine. If it said, "the small non-profit office" that would only refer to the physical location where he works. A non-profit could have more than one office, maybe in different locations. It's not the office that keeps Wikipedia on the web, it's the non-profit organization. "Non-profit office" would be redundant, and it would shift the emphasis to where he works, not what organization he works for.

But you seem like someone like me, interested in the fine points of word usage. Say "hi" on my talk page, sometime! Entwhiz (talk) 12:20, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

How could this article deletion happen?

Please explain how this could happen:

http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/hot-of-the-press-wikipedia-has-deleted-the-sayanim-entry.html

Wikipedia has deleted the 'Sayanim' entry.
Friday, November 25, 2011 at 12:35AM Gilad Atzmon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Sayanim

You're requesting our financial support but it appears you are allowing special interest groups to control your content. Please explain how this article could be deleted.

If you disagree with the deletion, you could a) read the concerns and fix them or b) Follow the proper procedure and request a review at WP:DRV. Accusing people of acting in bad faith isn't a good way to get help in solving your problems. --Jayron32 04:26, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

It followed Wikipedia:Articles for deletion. A user nominated it for deletion 14 July 2010. A prominent box at the top of the article (see [1] for an example) said it was being considered for deletion. The box linked to the discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sayanim. It was listed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2010 July 14 and added [2] to Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Israel. It was also in Category:Articles for deletion at the time. The discussion remained open for seven days as usual. Wikipedia has millions of articles and many deletion discussions. The discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sayanim had few participants but that's not uncommon. There was consensus to delete so it was deleted. Wikipedia's editorial decision-making works by consensus. Everybody, including unregistered readers, could have participated in the discussion. I guess your concern is speculation that pro-Jewish groups might be controlling Wikipedia but I see no sign of that. There are still lots of articles with content such groups probably wouldn't like. With 3.8 million articles there is bound to be things to like and dislike for everybody. PrimeHunter (talk) 04:38, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Further to that, if Wikipedia was to avoid deleting articles on the basis that it might adversely affect requests for financial support, it would do little for our integrity. AndyTheGrump (talk) 04:42, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

By the way, there are Wikipedias in more than 200 languages. The Arabic Wikipedia has an article at ar:سايعانيم. It links to five articles in European languages. Four of them are called Sayanim. The English is Bodlim since the English article Sayanim was deleted. PrimeHunter (talk) 04:57, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

I just reviewed the deleted article Sayanim. It was one paragraph with no references and I agree with the deletion. Oter (Mossad entity) was deleted for similar issues. The onus is on the originating editors to ensure the article meets the standards for notability and referencing.

Bodlim at least has references and Katsa is well fleshed. All of these would be better as a section of Mossad that discusses agents or even an overall article. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 10:59, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Sir Robert L. Borden high school

Sir Robert L. Borden high school is in Scarborough, Ontario Canada. It's located at at 200 Popular Rd. I went there back in the early 70s. Then it was the only high school by that name in Ontario. So hopefully you can correct this and have both high schools listed.thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.183.146.236 (talk) 05:20, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Where do you think that they should both be listed? They are both mentioned in Robert Borden#Honours. The one in Scarborough is listed in List of educational institutions in Scarborough, Ontario and in Toronto District School Board, so I'm not sure which article you feel should mention it but doesn't? - David Biddulph (talk) 07:58, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Assuming You are the new Local Chief Executive of one of the Municipalities here int he Philippines. What measures will you undertake to improve the services and the economy of the Local Government Unit?

Assuming You are the new Local Chief Executive of one of the Municipalities here int he Philippines. What measures will you undertake to improve the services and the economy of the Local Government Unit?Jazz me68 (talk) 08:33, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia. Your question appears to be a homework question. I apologize if this is a misinterpretation, but it is our policy here not to do people's homework for them, but to merely aid them in doing it themselves. Letting someone else do your homework does not help you learn nearly as much as doing it yourself. Please attempt to solve the problem or answer the question yourself first. If you need help with a specific part of your homework, feel free to tell us where you are stuck and ask for help. If you need help grasping the concept of a problem, by all means let us know. - David Biddulph (talk) 09:51, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

LOL! What is this, an interview? 71.146.20.62 (talk) 02:42, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Add NetBanking Options in the donation Page

Hi Team, I come across to ur page of donation and found that there is no Option for NetBanking and Only u have Credit Card / Paypal. And most of the people will be able to pay the donation if u add the NetBanking option in ur list with Banks: ICICI, HDFC, Axis & Citi Bank's which having more netbanking users than the credit card / paypal. If u want us to help you u need to provide mulitple ways to donate you. So that everybody who are using / accessing this wiki will have a chance to donate which helps common man like me who dont have either Credit Card nor Paypal Account. So adding of more payment options will help u in paying for the Bandwidth / Maintenance etc. So request you to add the NetBanking Option in this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CrazyArjun (talk • contribs) 11:23, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Does Ways to Give help? --ColinFine (talk) 19:00, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Watching an article that's being created, and maybe helping with it

I was on live chat and another new editor was asking for help creating an article. I followed along, and found the "article-in-progress, not yet published" page. Will I be able to go back to that page, and see any comments that are made, or what the article still needs, to be published?

Also, is there any way I could contact that editor, and offer to work with them on it? For instance, the article says "the divorce lasted seven years". I would ask what is meant by that. I would enjoy helping to clarify things in the article, and find sources/references, if the editor would like that. I think that part of it is that English might not be that editor's first language, although they use English well on the live chat. Sometimes written English is a little more formal, though.

Also, just by the way, this is the article for Jacqueline Titone Sandler, and the "in-progress" page said that there already is an article for "Jackie Sandler". However, when I searched using Google, I wasn't able to find one.

Thanks very much for any help you can give, Wikipedia is so much fun! I'm doing the tutorial, too, a little at a time, every evening, thanks very much for having this! I would never have thought that I would be able to edit, Entwhiz — Preceding unsigned comment added by Entwhiz (talk • contribs) 11:40, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

I put in a question, but it might not have gone through, because I had forgotten to put in the four tildes, so then I clicked the back arrow right away, but it didn't put me back to my message, just to this blank space.

Please let me know if my question didn't go through.

It was about the Jackie Sandler/Jacqueline Titone Sandler article.

Thanks very much for any help you can give, maybe I should have just let it go through without the tildes, to be sure it went through at all, but here are the tildes, now, thanks very much for everything, Entwhiz Entwhiz (talk) 11:43, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

The absence of the tildes doesn't stop your message being posted, and usually a bot (SineBot) will add a signature to your message on your behalf, as it had done in your first attempt above. When you post a message, please check it with the "Show preview" button before you save. With your version the formatting was wrong because you had left spaces at the start of lines in your message, so I have removed them. - David Biddulph (talk) 13:40, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

You can find out who has edited any article by picking the 'History' tab at the top. However, you do not need anybody's permission to work on an article: you can be bold and edit it yourself; or if you think you need to discuss it with others before making an edit, that is what the article's talk page is for: pick the tab labelled either "Talk" or "Discussion". --ColinFine (talk) 19:05, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

I don’t know which article you are referring to: I can’t find any article, AFC draft, or user-space draft for Jacqueline Titone Sandler. There used to be a Jackie Sandler article, but it was converted to a redirect to Adam Sandler. —teb728 t c 20:49, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Photograph of subject

That is not a photograph of wil calhoun. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.227.144.222 (talk) 13:18, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

There is no photo in Wil Calhoun. Could you provide us the link where you found a photo depicting Calhoun?--♫GoP♫_T^C_N 13:32, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps another IP editor who can't tell the difference between the article and the donation appeal banner? Compare with this ref desk question from a few days ago. Astronaut (talk) 07:34, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Wiki and my bookmarks

Recently I looked up some information on wikipedia about H & M - the retailer. I didn't bookmark the page - I read the information and moved on. But now everytime I try to go to any of my bookmarks that start with the letter "m", the H & M wiki page pops onto my screen. It is very annoying and inconvenient. Please tell me how to resolve this issue. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.206.144.156 (talk) 14:18, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

I don't see how the Wikipedia site could do this so I think it is a computer question. They may be able to help you more at the computer reference desk where they answer informational questions. RJFJR (talk) 15:34, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Tell them which browser you use. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:41, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

How do I turn off the table of contents

how do I make the automatic TOC NOT display?

TCO (talk) 15:29, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

__NOTOC__ should do the trick. Cheers! CharlieEchoTango (talk) 15:31, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

That'll work for individual pages, but to set it to not display for every page your view while logged on go to Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rendering and untick "Show table of contents (for pages with more than 3 headings)". Яehevkor ✉ 15:35, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

(And hit "Save" Яehevkor ✉ 15:37, 27 November 2011 (UTC))

(edit conflict) For your account on all pages:

Preferences → Appearance → Disable "Show table of contents (for pages with more than 3 headings)"

For everybody on a given page: __NOTOC__

See more at WP:TOC. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:35, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

worked. u guyz rock.TCO (talk) 15:42, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Need Help To Correct Title Of Wikipedia Article?

Please Help - Seems The Title Of A Wikipedia Article May Be Incorrect Based On The Original Cited Reference - The Alternate Title, "Spinoloricus Cinzia", Is Correct (See Reference) But The Main Title, "Spinoloricus sp. nov.", Should Be Corrected To "Spinoloricus nov. sp." Instead? - Based On The Original Cited Reference - Thank You In Advance For Your Help With This - Enjoy! :) Drbogdan (talk) 16:41, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

You can request a move if you believe you are correct. Also it is confusing to read if you type in capitals; I don't know why you are doing it. I removed the reflist you put at the end to avoid complications. Regards--♫GoP♫_T^C_N 18:31, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Thank you *very* much for your reply comments - no problem whatsoever - as for the capitalizations, see here if interested - in any regards - Thanks again - and - Enjoy! :) Drbogdan (talk) 19:24, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

 Done - Hope I did the move/redirects/etc ok - this is the first time I've done this procedure - help in any resulting problems would be appreciated of course - in any regards - thanks again for your help - and - Enjoy! :) Drbogdan (talk) 21:36, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

fat quotes

How do I make fat quotes?TCO (talk) 18:03, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

What do you mean?

“ Like this? ” — Me

Goodvac (talk) 18:24, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Do you mean something like {{Rquote}} and {{Cquote}}?--♫GoP♫_T^C_N 18:24, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

thank you Goodvac, I think. let me try it. Have a little longer passage that will span the page. centered is good though. remember was I was the old evil ex-permabannee that you helped out on Amanar?TCO (talk) 18:26, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Indeed I remember you, TCO—I was afraid you wouldn't recognize me! ;) Welcome back, I saw that you had vanished but then returned. Goodvac (talk) 18:40, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

I don't knoiw what your use is for but note that those two templates are for pull quotes. There have been many discussions about these and the result is that the MoS goes out of its way to specifically mention at MOS:QUOTE not to use them for blockquotes.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 23:41, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Check/Edit My Efforts?

Longtime editor, first-time article creator here. Progress is happening, but I could use tips. See latest revision at User:O._Pen_Sauce/Sandbox . Most vexing: why do the paragraphs run together? Do I really need to insert break tags?

--O. Pen Sauce (talk) 18:16, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Good reading is at WP:Tutorial and at WP:1st. You need to read about notability, and demonstrate that notability by reliable sources as references, not merely as external links. You don't need the <BR> tags; just leave a blank line before starting a new paragraph. - David Biddulph (talk) 18:49, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Ok, will read. But didn't imagine I'd need to consider notability, figuring the fact of a series being played on a commercial American cable channel was inherently sufficient for an article to be merited. If it's not, then I can't imagine what the test would be. --O. Pen Sauce (talk) 18:51, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

The test is not how famous or important a subject is: it is whether independent reliable sources have written about them. (These often go together, but cannot be relied on to do so). --ColinFine (talk) 19:08, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

I'd say "Baltic Coasts offers a HDTV tour..." is pretty promo sounding, look at articles like Frozen Planet or Walking with Dinosaurs for a better way to do it--Jac16888 ^Talk 19:53, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

You need a lede that explains 1) what the show is and 2) who makes it and 3) where and when was it first broadcast. Also in your episode list, you need to remove those external links (to credits) - you cannot use external links in the text of an article. --Cameron Scott (talk) 20:04, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

ColinFine: So if a TV series hasn't been written about by three or four writers, even though it's seen by millions of people, it's not notable? That seems distorted and dog-waggish, no? Major media broadcast is a more objective measure of notability than the attention of subjective writers. I.e. the spotlight of millions of viewers surely makes it more notable than any minor illumination by a handful of writers.

That said, I do understand why the rule is necessary, but it's worth (IMO) studying closely when it results in distortion, as here. Googling, I don't see much mention of the series (which I happen to really like). I could very easily call up a few writer friends and encourage mentions. I can't, however, affect the programming of commercial media networks. So - in this one admittedly narrow realm - which is the more objective gauge?

Jac16888, agreed, and thanks for the note. I started with the series' own PR just as a basis, but it's really hard to de-hype a piece of writing! At this point, I've rewritten 90% of it, and I clearly need to redo the remaining 10%. Although this may mean I'm stepping on another technicality landmine, since one could argue it's sourceless. Blehhhhhh....

Cameron Scott: thanks!

--O. Pen Sauce (talk) 21:08, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Well, notability is a fairly basic principle of Wikipedia: you could try to change the consensus.

But more practically: how do you know it is seen by millions of viewers? If you have an independent reliable source that says so (i.e. not the producers, or somebody just quoting them), there's your first source! --ColinFine (talk) 21:50, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

O. Pen Sauce, you are right that it’s really hard to de-hype PR. But if you base the article on the neutral writing of independent reliable sources that Wikipedia requires anyway, there is no need to de-hype. —teb728 t c 11:16, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I'll stop preparing the article. Another misuse of the resource averted! Hurrah!

I was one of the very early editors (not super prolific, but I made good edits, a bunch of them before I registered, or having forgotten to log in). Each time I return, my input (which is always smart, honest, and well-intended) is thwarted by mulish application of rules or via edit wars with pissily intransigent editors. I'm not the type to passively use a hive mind service without contributing, but feedback loops being what they are, I've been pretty thoroughly trained to do so.

I'm extremely well-aware of the necessity of rules and clear standards (and a little bit of inherent maddeningness) in running a resource like this. I know the myriad ways it can be misused, and agree that it must be vigilantly protected. But I'm baby, not bathwater, and I'm taking this moment to wave bye-bye as I swoosh down the drain.

--O. Pen Sauce (talk) 17:42, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

The Penny Project

Has anyone connected to Wikipedia ever considered a voluntary contribution made by a user as she accesses the site for information. Think of the "Penny Project" whereby any use could donate a penny any time she uses wikipedia. People with Paypal could pay as they go by having a button on the site, for example. Perhaps a new pay site without other commercial connections beside Wikipedia could be set up. Put the pay button at the end of the article? Make the fee 1/10 of a cent? I would gladly pay for the service if the fee seemed trivial. Let's see... 1/10 cent times 6 billion is...... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.249.97.99 (talk) 19:13, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

MISS EARTH 2011

MISS PERU MARIA GRACIA FIGUEROA WON 2 TITLES ON PAGUDPUD SHE WONS BEST BODY IN SWIMSUIT AND MISS PAGUDPU, WHY YOU DONT PUT IT ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.230.244.201 (talk) 19:18, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Good point: Maybe this should go in an astronomy article concerned with listing heavenly bodies?--Aspro (talk) 19:27, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Why don't you do it yourself? And why do you SHOUT? --♫GoP♫_T^C_N 19:45, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Assistance

How do I go about getting assistance on editing a page? I have been fixing and adding sources to New Jersey Turnpike and I could use some help. I wanted to nominate it as a good article, but apparently it's not quite up to par. Thank you very much. Tinton5 (talk) 20:08, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

The best place for that would be Wikipedia:Peer review.--Slon02 (talk) 22:44, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Not very active talk page

What should I do when I post a question on a talk page that doesn't have much editing traffic? What is a solution if the talk page is not very effective on a particular subject? Example, Talk:Interstate 195 (New Jersey). I made a post on November 23 and have not been answered. I realize people are living their own lives and have to do bigger and better things in the world than visit a small talk page, but that is why I am inquiring here. Much appreciated. Tinton5 (talk) 20:21, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

You could try Wikipedia talk:WikiProject U.S. Roads or other relevant Wiki Projects. But to answer your question, when I-195 goes into both states, title it Interstate 195 (Pennsylvania-New Jersey) CTJF83 20:34, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Be bold - edit things; make 'em better. If people complain, then discuss it. WP:BRD.  Chzz  ►  20:49, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your replies. I suppose that also answers the question for my first post above. Regards, Tinton5 (talk) 20:51, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

New subcatagories within Category:Television programs based on video games

Hi, I've created new subcatagories within Category:Television programs based on video games for American, Chinese, and Japanese video game-based television programs. However, after seeing that there are alot of cartoon series as well, it is hard to distinguish their origins as there are a large number. Hope you guys can somehow help or if you think they are unnecessary then just undo my subcatagories.--NeoBatfreak (talk) 21:33, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

What happened to wikipedia's server why did it crash

Just curious to know how and why wikipedia shut down and how long was it for and how many times did it happen before.Shawn Worthington Laser Plasma (talk) 23:12, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Think the cleaning lady just unplug it, so that she could plug in her vacuum cleaner. That's what usually happens where I work.--Aspro (talk) 00:02, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

adding this back after removing vandalism Tigerboy1966 (talk) 00:15, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Its OK now, she's moved on to emptying the wast-paper baskets - On no! She's just spotted some fluff under Jimmy's desk!--Aspro (talk) 00:20, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Must be one death wish grand finale plug to do that to the whole world, who authorized her to even be there. Shawn Worthington Laser Plasma (talk) 00:32, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

The KGB probably. They found that cleaning ladies in the west were considered the lowest of the low. Thus no one suspect them as they riffled through the bins. 007 was all show and no go in comparison to these short, little fat spy’s in curlers with a cigarette hanging off their lips. Don't mind if I unplug that radar thingy do ya' love? Need to plug my floor polisher in! My, has any one told you you're a hansom looking fellow? Have you ever.... ? --Aspro (talk) 01:21, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Correcting biography of a living person

Have checked http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:SOURCES#Reliable_sources but cannot find the answer to this: Let's say a living person's entry states that they were once convicted of a crime but in reality, they were not convicted of a crime. The entry, however, gives a newspaper article as a reference which incorrectly states that the person was convicted of that crime. And what if it was never reported in any publication that the person was, in fact, never convicted of the crime, so no reference to that effect can be given. And what if the only proof that this is the case is a letter from the police (not usable as a reference in Wikipedia as far as I understand) confirming that the person was never convicted? Johnalexwood (talk) 23:45, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

The basis for inclusion on Wikipedia is verifiability, which may occasionally not be the same thing as truth. I would however have thought it unusual that a person sufficiently notable to have an article, isn't sufficiently notable to have it brought up somewhere that they weren't actually convicted of a crime. Alice Cooper frequently explains that he never did bite the head off that chicken in 1967, for instance. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 00:56, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

The link in your comment is broken. 71.146.20.62 (talk) 02:45, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Elen of the Roads. I take your point, but then we would have one article that says the crime conviction happened and another that says it didn't. Both are valid according to verifiability. The letter from the police, however, states that it didn't, so I really don't see why that letter can't be used as a reference. Maybe it should be added as a jpg to the article as proof? Also, what if the person in question is notable enough to be in Wikipedia but that no journalist happened to write an article refuting the original. Or maybe that article will be written soon, but the person in question is very keen for his Wikipedia entry to be corrected now rather than having to wait for an article to be written about this matter, because it is having an undue and unfair negative effect on his reputation. Johnalexwood (talk) 01:39, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

The link in your comment is broken. 71.146.20.62 (talk) 02:46, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Letters are not published documents. The authenticity of the letter would have to be vetted, something Wikipedia is not equipped to do. That's why we base information on sources like books, magazines, newspapers, and journals: respected scholars and journalists DO vet such things, and when they write about and analyze them, their reputation and professionalism gives us something reliable to go on. A copy of a letter is not a valid, published source. Contact a respected journalist, give them the letter, have them write an article, get it published in Time Magazine or the New York Times, and maybe, that will get you somewhere. --Jayron32 02:16, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

• A good idea would be to take up these discussion at BLPN. Wifione ^Message 03:49, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

The Penet remailer was accused by an otherwise respected national newspaper of distributing child pornography. The newspaper never printed a retraction and there was no source saying that the Penet remailer is innocent.

Wikipedia handles this by, basically, ignoring the rules and using invalid sources. We explain what really happened, including the analysis by an "online journalist" which would not normally be a reliable source (unless it comes from his cbsnews column, which the article nowhere says) in a paragraph without references at all. There's also a mention of reader mail pointing out the errors (reader mail is not a reliable source either, and there's no published source describing the reader mail and saying it is accurate).

Of course, whether you can get Wikipedia to ignore the rules depends entirely on whether there's someone stubborn enough to insist on following the rules and allow verifiable-but-false information in a BLP. 38.104.2.94 (talk) 16:13, 30 November 2011 (UTC)