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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 8 July 2024 [1].

Robert Schumann

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Nominator(s): Tim riley talk 09:38, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is almost certainly the first time there have been two articles on composers up for FAC (Igor Stravinsky is already here). I'm venturing outside my comfort zone with Schumann. With one exception – Rossini – the previous nineteen composer FAs I've nominated or co-nominated have been French or English, and though I can't claim to be an expert on French or English music, still less am I expert on German music: the input at the peer review from Ssilvers, Aza24, SchroCat, MyCatIsAChonk, UndercoverClassicist, KJP1 and Iadmc has been of inestimable value and I am profoundly grateful. Suggestions for further improvement – prose, proportion, balance, sourcing and anything else – will be most welcome. Tim riley talk 09:38, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Iadmc

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  • Support A lot of work has been done recently and the article is ready for being featured, in my opinion. All the FA criteria are fulfilled and the article is especially well sourced and written.— Iadmc♫talk  09:47, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for this support, Iadmc, and for your input at PR. I don't think our paths had crossed until a week or so ago, and I hope they will cross again. Tim riley talk 10:09, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed! See you around — Iadmc♫talk  10:09, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thought Shouldn't the infobox link to his List of Works?— Iadmc♫talk  16:08, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think that's a rotten trick to play on our poor readers. An info-box is meant to sum up the key points within an article, and not to take the poor souls off to some other article altogether. Tim riley talk 17:44, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Since it is another article altogether and the alternative is to list some works according to some editor's opinion, why not? We link some places and people who have articles in the info box: Zwickau, Bonn, and Clara Schumann. The List is less likely to keep them from the main article. — Iadmc♫talk  18:05, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We link to the list from the top of the Works section. No need to do it twice. Tim riley talk 18:13, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We link Zwickau, Bonn, and Clara Schumann in the lead. Should we unlink them in the infobox? Why? — Iadmc♫talk  18:29, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But they are all mentioned in the article, and the list isn't. Personally I despise info-boxes for composers, which me judice serve no useful purpose, but this one was in situ when I began my overhaul and it seemed presumptuous to remove it. Tim riley talk 18:43, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This edit was made on the sly. Removed List of works and signature with no explanation except "additional info and refs; rem uncited material". This needs further discussion. I won't replace them unless others agree I should. The signature is better in the info box, imo. And yes: those items are mentioned already so why link them? This is a way to remove the box, I fear, by rotting it — Iadmc♫talk  17:08, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

His signature has in fact vanished — Iadmc♫talk  17:15, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There is no case for putting a composer's signature in an info-box. The box is there to sum up what is in the article. An autograph does no such thing. Tim riley talk 18:28, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But it should be somewhere in the article if it exists? — Iadmc♫talk  18:30, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A case could be made, I suppose, for including it elsewhere in the article, but I’ve never seen the point, personally. It doesn’t help explain the individual or aid the reader in any way. It is, however, something tangibly connected to the composer though.
I’m going to pull you up on the rather uncivil accusation that Tim did something “on the sly”. He did a major rewrite that cut unsourced material and added quality content. That’s not ‘on the sky’, and it leaves an unpleasant taste. You should consider striking that rather contemptible part of your comment. SchroCat (talk) 18:50, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

SchroCat (talk) 18:36, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Sorry Tim.— Iadmc♫talk  18:54, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that Tim's rewrite is remarkable, in fact. I just had some concerns to air and did so in an uncivil manner — Iadmc♫talk  18:57, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, both. I confess I found the phrase "on the sly" rather hurtful. As far as I can recall (I may be mistaken) the autograph is not reproduced in any of the biographies about Schumann I've studied for this overhaul. If it isn't in the books it seems perverse to make room for it in a 7,000-word article. I had to drop some excellent images that were crammed into the then existing version: we have to use our limited space prudently. One wise colleague commented that seeing the subject's handwriting might possibly be illuminating in an article about a visual artist, but tells one nothing about the subject in an article about a musician. Tim riley talk 18:54, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I see the point. Ignore me, then! I'll look through the article again soon to see what needs fixing or goes against MOS etc. A glance says it's pretty good, though — Iadmc♫talk  19:05, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

MyCat

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  • Throughout his childhood and youth his love of music and literature ran in tandem, with poems - is this comma needed?
  • Somewhere I saw "homeopathy" be spelled "homoeopathy" in BrE, but I'm hardly one to correct BrE spellings
  • together with his discovery that she was an illegitimate, impecunious, adopted daughter of Fricken - I know what impecunious and adopted are saying, but what purpose does "illegitimate" serve here? Even is she was being dishonest, perhaps that's a better word, as I see "illegitimate" as connecting to "adopted" here.
Perhaps together with his discovery that she was an "illegitimate, impecunious, adopted" daughter of Fricken to make the point that it is a quote? — Iadmc♫talk  12:16, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think it's all right. I'll leave it as it is for now and wait to see if anyone else comments. Tim riley talk 12:23, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is there a particular reason the web citations are cited with text as opposed to using the full templates?
  • Just what I've always done. Works fine and nobody seems to object.

That's all I got- excellent work here! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 11:31, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the above, and for your input at PR. My regards to you and Igor. Tim riley talk 11:59, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The citation style is perfectly acceptable per WP:CITE — Iadmc♫talk  12:21, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support then- wonderful job MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 21:21, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Many thanks for your support here and for your earlier input. Tim riley talk 06:27, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support from UC

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Not sure I'll have many more nits to pick after the PR, but will drop in here to give it a go when I can. UndercoverClassicist T·C 13:23, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Doing my best to find some. Apologies if I'm re-raising anything from PR:

  • at Leipzig and Heidelberg Universities: I am chewing on the capital U here: my thinking is that it's probably not right, since it isn't strictly part of a proper noun any more (that is, there's no proper noun Leipzig and Heidelberg Universities. Advise the universities of Leipzig and Heidelberg.
  • I wouldn't italicise alter egos, as it's English (ego doesn't really have a plural in Latin, but it wouldn't be egos if it did)
  • Despite the bitter opposition of Wieck, who did not regard his pupil as a suitable husband for his daughter, Schumann married Wieck's daughter Clara in 1840: as the relative clause doesn't make any sense until we have the last bit, this would perhaps be better reordered to put the marriage first, then the objection second.
  • Schumann's always precarious mental health: hyphenate always-precarious as a compound modifier? MoS makes an exception for -ly compounds, but this isn't one.
  • affluent middle class family: hyphenate middle-class as above. I might suggest using affluent in the lead to replace comfortable: I'm mindful that in some parts of the world, "middle-class" means "ordinary" rather than "petite-bourgeoise".
  • during 1835 Schumann gradually realised that Ernestine's personality was not as interesting as he first thought: I know this is couched as "in the view of", but it's still fundamentally unverifiable (how can we measure the interesting-ness of someone's personality) and, frankly, a bit infra dig for us to be making what reads as a quite sneery comment at Ernestine's expense. The word "realised" could perhaps be reworked into more of a statement of opinion: it's one thing to say that he found her less interesting, it's another to say that she objectively was uninteresting.
  • Professionally the later years of the 1830s were marked by an abortive attempt by Schumann to establish himself in Vienna: to me, abortive means short-lived, which I'm not sure is appropriate if it lasted for several years. "Failed", "unsuccessful" vel sim?
  • described its "himmlische Länge": I believe that under the MoS, if we italicise a non-English quote, we don't then use quote marks.
  • Clara gave birth to a daughter in September, the first of the Schumanns' seven children to survive: do we know her name?
  • de gustibus, assuming they're not remotely notable in themselves. UndercoverClassicist T·C 18:42, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Op 54. The following year he worked on what was to be published as his Second Symphony, Op. 61. : the first Op. should have a dot to mark the abbreviation, I think.
  • the D minor symphony from 1841, published as his Fourth Symphony (1851) and the 1835 Symphonic Studies (1852).: comma after (1851).
  • the twenty-year-old Johannes Brahms called on Schumann with a letter of introduction from their mutual friend the violinist Joseph Joachim.: I know I'm generally more comma-happy than you, but I think we really need one after friend here.
  • I don't think so. That would make Joachim their only mutual friend (which he may have been, but I don't know.) It's the difference between "my brother, John" and "my brother John".
  • Very well, but then at least we want something like "their mutual friend Joseph Joachim, the violinist". There's a more elegant and technical way of putting this, but the four-word noun phrase is just too "heavy" to stand in this position without some sort of punctuation to give structure to the sentence. UndercoverClassicist T·C 18:42, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • In "Works", Romantic era is linked on second mention, which seems odd.
  • The other three were stand-alone concert works inspired by Schiller (The Bride of Messina), Shakespeare (Julius Caesar) and Goethe (Hermann and Dorothea).: I expected these links to go to Schumann's works, not to e.g. Shakespeare's. To reduce the easter egg factor, suggest "Schiller's The Bride of Messina, Shakespeare's Julius Caesar, etc.
    OK. Done. What think you of Requiem Mass in the opera and choral section, which worried me for similar reasons? Tim riley talk 18:06, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I think that's fine: if we were linking to the specific work, I'd expect the linktext to cover the "a", which it doesn't. UndercoverClassicist T·C 20:09, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • (see sound clips, right): phrases like this are discouraged: on certain screens (particularly mobile), the clips may not be to the right of the text. Personally, I'd simply cut this altogether, as the caption to those clips makes clear what they are.

All very minor: I doubt they'll take you very long at all. UndercoverClassicist T·C 16:21, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks UC. Your eagle eye is, as ever, greatly valued. Tim riley talk 20:16, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

SchroCat

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Thank you, SchroCat, for support here and input at PR. Tim riley talk 15:26, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ssilvers

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The 4th paragraph of the LEAD section says: "...but he was not a good conductor and had to resign after three years." At first glance, one would think this meant that his technical conducting skills were poor.

However, the problem seems to have been social skills, not technique. The body of the article says "...he accepted a post as director of music at Düsseldorf in April 1850. Hall comments that in retrospect it can be seen that Schumann was fundamentally unsuited for the post. In Hall's view, Schumann's diffidence in social situations, allied to mental instability, "ensured that initially warm relations with local musicians gradually deteriorated to the point where his removal became a necessity in 1853".

The LEAD (not lied) ought to be harmonised with the text below. I suggest "...but his shyness and mental instability made it difficult for him to work with other/orchestra musicians, and he had to resign after three years." I am so sorry that I do not have time to review this thoroughly. Good luck! -- Ssilvers (talk) 18:21, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That will do nicely. Thank you, Ss. Tim riley talk 19:24, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I added a sentence to the Lead about the period 1843-1849. One other question about the Lead, where it says "The marriage was followed by...." Should it be "wedding" instead of "marriage", as the marriage was ongoing? -- Ssilvers (talk) 18:52, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Good question! Not sure the two terms don't overlap rather a lot (The Marriage of Figaro is about his approaching wedding day rather than his married life with Susanna) but point taken, and I'll change. Tim riley talk 19:23, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image review by Generalissima

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  • File:Robert Schumann 1839.jpg: Public domain.
  • File:Schumannhaus ALT.JPG: Public domain.
  • File:Portrait of A Young Age of Robert Schumann.png: Public domain - the photo is uploaded as an "own work", but that might refer to the physical picture of the photo including the frame?
  • File:Schumann-Abegg-theme.jpg: Public domain, but can be copied over to commons as it is out of copyright outside in its source country as well.
  • File:Neue-Zeitschrift-fur-Musik.jpg: Public domain.
  • File:Clara-Wieck-1832-signed-illegible.png: Public domain.
  • File:Clara und Robert Schumann Relief MIM.jpg: Released into public domain on upload.
  • File:Robert u Clara Schumann 1847.jpg: Public domain.
  • File:Schumann-photo1850.jpg: Public domain.
  • File:Du Ring am meinem Finger.jpg: Public domain (Like above, can be transferred onto commons.)
  • File:Rhenish-opening-score.jpg (Like above.)
  • File:Schumann-Genoveva-score.jpg (Like above.)
  • File:Robert-Schumann-Haus.JPG: CC-BY-SA 2.0
  • I am unsure if this is part of the image review, but all the music files are also good to use, as they are CC licensed.
  • Images have appropriate alt-text.
  • I would move the 1847 Robert and Clara Schumann picture to the right, as per MOS:IMAGELOC.
  • No sandwiching issues as I can see.

Seems pretty good to me, besides that one image realignment; adding the licensing that lets the other files be transferred to commons would be nice, but I don't think is actually pertinent to the article itself per FA criteria. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 18:51, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Generalissima, thank you for this thorough and encouraging review. I'm a bit reluctant to move the 1847 image to the right hand of the page: having it flush left varies the layout a bit, I feel. I'm indebted to you for your review. Tim riley talk 19:21, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Tim riley: Oh, I just realized that the "Clara Wieck in 1832" image could be left-aligned, as she appears to be facing right. Is there a way to move those around to keep the layout interesting? Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 19:22, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Perfectly happy for you or anyone else to rejig the images if you think they'd be improved thereby. Tim riley talk 19:37, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Okay! Anyhow, since it's essentially an optional element of the MOS as it pertains to image, I'm happy to Support on image review. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 19:50, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

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To follow.... - SchroCat (talk) 14:53, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Quality
All sources are both reliable and of high quality. Subject specific searches do not show any major or concerning gaps in the sources used.
Formatting
  • For most of the chapter titles you use sentence case, but Larkin's "The 'War' of the Romantics" doesn't.
  • There are a few different formats for ISBNs which should be made consistent.
  • FN142 needs a full stop after pp.
  • FN 56: Browne Conor. "Robert Schumann's Das Paradies und die Peri and its early Performances": why is "early" lower case and "Performances" capitalised?
  • I was following the source. It's a one-off web page rather than a book chapter, but I don't think there's any harm in taking the minor liberty of lower-casing "performances", and have now done so. Tim riley talk 18:16, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's the lot. - SchroCat (talk) 15:46, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your keen-eyed review, SchroCat. I'm much obliged. Tim riley talk 18:16, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Matarisvan

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Hi Tim riley, my comments:

  • I'm not quite sure about this, but wouldn't including August Schumann in the infobox be prudent?
  • "musical historian": wouldn't "music historian" be better?
  • This may be an Engvar thing: cf. BrE "musical director" and AmE "music director"
  • "living composers": just "living composer", since we have only one here?
  • Translate Die Zauberflöte as done for other German language words?
  • "After a year in Leipzig": add a comma after?
  • More Engvar. In the King's English we don't automatically put commas after introductory dates. If they serve a useful function in clarifying the meaning fine (e.g. "On meeting Joyce, Beckett was impressed", to save the reader wondering momentarily who Joyce Beckett was). But they are usually superfluous. Tim riley talk 14:20, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Link to international law as done for the other branches?
  • Do any authors discuss why Schumann named his two selfs Florestan and Eusebius? Was the first based on the character in Fidelio by Beethoven, and the second one on Greek bishop?
  • This is covered in the footnote. As it is all conjectural, it is, as discussed at the peer review, better footnoted than in the main text.
  • Link to Ferdinand Schubert?
  • "toured to": just "toured"?
  • Without the preposition it reads as though they did tours of those cities rather than touring from one to the other.
  • Translate Waldszenen?
  • Link to Goethe on first use instead of second?
  • Translate Allgemeine musikalische Zeitung?
  • We're missing commas at a lot of places. Would it be ok with you if I added those myself?
  • Remove the bracket after Hermann and Dorothea?
  • Yes. This is a hangover from an earlier suggested revision (see previous comments). Done.
  • Link to The Record Guide?
  • Link to Toby Saks in the Andante piece?
  • Link to Wagner and arias in the Opera subsection?
  • "most of the minor ones": do we have the exact numbers?
  • No. We can't know the exact number because, as mentioned in the text, Clara and Brahms suppressed some of the late works.
  • Link to Edvard Grieg?
  • We mention Faure and Messager's pilgrimage to Schumann's tomb, but haven't specified where it is.
  • Is the link to Joan Chissell in the Legacy subsection necessary? We have linked to her quite a few times already. Also, was this prize at the Royal College of Music endowed by her? If so, then consider mentioning that?
  • Why have you not used sfn and sfnm tags instead of plain ref tags? Is there no consensus to do so on the talk page, or have you not opened a proposal to do so yet?
  • Refs #18, #26, #30, #53, #56, #99, #110, #126, #131, #132, #133, #138, #144, #145, #146, #147, #149, #160, #165-169: Convert to cite web?
  • Refs #48 and #49: Convert to {Cite AV media notes}?
  • Ref #110: Consider converting to sfnm and cite web refs.
  • Ref #110: Convert to Cite AV media?
  • In the biblio, you shouldn't have to use the subscription required template. I believe URL access level or access level parameters will do the job just fine.
  • In the biblio, link to Anthony Peattie.
  • Add the trans-title values for Liliencron 1875 and Maintz 1995.
  • In Marston 2007, there seems to be an error in the first name.
  • I have taken, jointly or on my own, 20 articles on composers to FA, and most of them have used the referencing format used here. You will see, above, the comment from another reviewer: "The citation style is perfectly acceptable per WP:CITE". It is not in the slightest need of "fixing". You may notice that the source review, above, is a pass. Tim riley talk 14:20, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That is all from me. The lead and body are very well written and I can strong support it. But the source formatting is at strong oppose level, you should fix it as soon as possible. Cheers Matarisvan (talk) 13:13, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wolverine

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I'll have some comments in a few hours. Wolverine XI (talk to me) 07:12, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • From 1829 he was a student of the piano teacher Friedrich Wieck, but his hopes for a career as a virtuoso pianist were frustrated by a worsening problem with his right hand Should be from 1829 on
  • virtuoso pianist were frustrated by a worsening problem with his right hand, and he concentrated on composition. Should be "so he concentrated on composition."
  • Despite the bitter opposition of Wieck, who did not regard his pupil as a suitable husband for his daughter, Schumann married Wieck's daughter Clara in 1840. Add comma after daughter and Clara
  • Schumann composed prolifically, writing, first, songs I'm not understanding "first" here
  • During his lifetime Schumann was recognised for his piano music – often subtly programmatic – and his songs. Use em dash for both
  • recently Wolfgang Rihm have been inspired by his music, as were French composers such as Georges Bizet Should be "as have French composers such as Georges Bizet "
  • On 13 June 1810 the local newspaper, Comma after June
  • Throughout his childhood and youth his love of music and literature ran in tandem − Replace the last symbol with a comma
  • Musically, Schumann got to know the works of Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, and of living composers Composer should be singular
  • August Schumann died in 1826; his widow was less enthusiastic about a musical career for her son and persuaded him to study for the law as a profession. "For the law" to just "law"
  • According to his room-mate Emil Flechsig Hyphen unnecessary
  • After matriculating at the university on 30 July 1829 he travelled in Switzerland and Italy from late August to late October. Comma after July
AmE usage, not wanted here. Tim riley talk 13:03, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • he wrote to his mother on 30 July 1830 telling her how he saw his future: Same here
  • A six-month trial period was agreed. Changed to "agreed upon"
  • for piano, a programmatic piece depicting twin brothers – one a poetic dreamer, the other a worldly realist – both in love with the same woman at a masked ball. Em dashes needed
  • Schumann had by now come to regard himself as having two distinct sides to his personality and art: he dubbed his introspective, pensive self "Eusebius" and the impetuous and dynamic alter ego "Florestan". Change to and his impetuous and dynamic alter ego "Florestan".
  • The condition had the advantage of exempting him from compulsory military service – he could not fire a rifle – but by 1832 he recognised that a career as a virtuoso pianist was impossible and he shifted his main focus to composition. Em dashes again
  • Among the contributors were friends and colleagues of Schumann, writing under pen names: he included them in his Davidsbündler (League of David) – a band of fighters for musical truth, named after the Biblical hero who fought against the Philistines – a product of the composer's imagination in which, blurring the boundaries of imagination and reality, he included his musical friends. Em dashes please
  • According to Chissell, her concerto debut at the Leipzig Gewandhaus on 9 November 1835, Comma after November
  • Ferdinand allowed him to take a copy away and Schumann arranged for the work's premiere, conducted by Mendelssohn in Leipzig on 21 March 1839. Comma after March
  • In the Neue Zeitschrift für Musik Schumann wrote enthusiastically about the work and described its "himmlische Länge" – its "heavenly length" – a phrase that has become common currency in later analyses of the symphony. Em dashes please

Comment: OK, so please replace your en dashes with em dashes and add a comma after the month in DMY format.

  • she was the better-known of the two but her career was continually interrupted by motherhood of their seven children. Should "the motherhood of their seven children."
  • He studied works by Haydn and Mozart, despite an ambivalent attitude to the former Should be "towards the former"
  • It was premiered at the Gewandhaus on 4 December "Was" is redundant
  • and repeat performances followed at Dresden on 23 December, Berlin early the following year, and in London in June 1856 "In" before London is not needed.
  • Genoveva, a four-act opera based on the medieval legend of Genevieve of Brabant, was premiered in Leipzig, conducted by the composer, in June 1850. Again "was" is redundant
  • During 1850 Schumann composed two substantial late works – the Third (Rhenish) Symphony and the Cello Concerto. For this one, the dash should be a colon
  • No. See Fowler, p. 202.
  • Absolute music such as those works are in the minority in his piano compositions "are" to "is"
  • Schumann shares the second place in the hierarchy of the Lied with Wolf. Remove "the"
  • This is the normal form. It refers to the genre. Without the definite article it would be specific and the noun would need to be plural, but that is not what Moore is saying. Tim riley talk 13:03, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • They are known for the quality of the texts he set: "Sets" should be plural
  • consisting of nine Heine settings and the Op. 39 set of twelve settings of poems by Eichendorff. Add semicolon after "settings"
  • Schumann's literary sensibilities led him to create in his songs an equal partnership between words and music unprecedented in the German Lied. "The" unnecessary
  • Conductors including Gustav Mahler, Max Reger, Arturo Toscanini, Otto Klemperer and George Szell have made changes to the instrumentation before conducting his orchestral music. Who exactly are you referring to when you say "his"
  • Hall comments that Schumann's orchestration has subsequently been more highly regarded because of a trend towards playing the orchestral music with smaller forces in historically informed performance. "Subsequently" is redundant and "performance" should be plural
  • with movements depicting a solemn religious ceremony in Cologne Cathedral and outdoor merrymaking of Rhinelanders. Add "the" before "outdoor"
  • the vigorous opening bars succeeded by the wistful A minor theme that enters in the fourth bar. Add "are" after bars
  • In addition to his chamber works for what were or were becoming standard combinations of instruments, Schumann wrote for some unusual groupings and was often flexible about which instruments a work called for: in his Adagio and Allegro, Op. 70 the pianist may, according to the composer, be joined by either a horn, a violin or a cello, and in the Fantasiestücke, Op. 73 the pianist may be duetting with a clarinet, violin or cello. His Andante and Variations (1843) for two pianos, two cellos and a horn later became a piece for just the pianos.
Never mind that. Wolverine XI (talk to me) 16:11, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • The work was never given complete in Schumann's lifetime Completed?
  • The songs featured in the recorded repertoire from the early days of the gramophone change to "date from the early days"
  • Schumann's solo piano music has remained core repertoire for pianists change to "a core"
  • Bizet, Widor, Debussy Replace commas with semicolons
  • Other twentieth and twenty-first century Add hyphen between "first" and "century"
  • edited by Clara and Brahms, but it was not complete: apart colon = full stop & apart = Apart
  • The colon here serves what Fowler calls the function of "delivering the goods that have been invoiced in the preceding words". A new sentence would break that connexion. Tim riley talk 13:03, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My criticisms above are minor; overall, this is a lengthy, well-written piece. When all is done, I'd appreciate a review of the narwhal FAC. Thanks, Wolverine XI (talk to me) 11:29, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'll look in at your Narwhal nomination. Meanwhile, thank you for commenting here. Tim riley talk 13:03, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You're welcome. You have my support. Wolverine XI (talk to me) 16:12, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Many thanks for your support, Wolverine. I'll comment at your Narwhal FAC as soon as I can. Tim riley talk 17:56, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Drive-by comments

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  • Article and chapter titles should consistently be in either title or sentence case, regardless of how they appear in their original.
  • "His works typified the spirit of the Romantic era in German music." You sure that should be past tense? Have they since ceased to do so?

Gog the Mild (talk) 12:36, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for these. I have my right arm in plaster and cannot type very easily but hope to be improved by midweel and will attedn to your comments then. Tim riley talk 06:48, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oh dear, that sounds like an unhappy state of affairs. I'll promote this, on the assumption that you will see to the two minor points above once you are able to. If either raise issues, could you let me know. Gog the Mild (talk) 15:09, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, Gog - will certainly do. Tim riley talk 20:41, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]


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