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The Signpost: 29 April 2013

Rajesh Kotecha

Hello, I understand the reasons why you deleted the page Dr. Rajesh Kotecha, but I would like to know how is that possible according to your principle of non advertisement, that many pages exist on ayurveda centers and for ayurvedic doctors, which are also promotional in your sense. We only put a neutral biography on him, is that advertisement? we dont think so. I have seen many doctors putting on Wiki similar pages, you can check please. Justice and fair methods should be applied to everybody.

Thanks for your response! regards Lakshmianoop — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lakshmianoop (talk • contribs) 12:25, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

The existence of other, similar pages is not an argument for retaining a page with the same problems - each page is judged on its individual merits. The current version in your sandbox is something of an improvement, although it still needs a bit of editing to bring it up to standard. I recommend submitting it via Articles for creation to allow for review and advice before it goes "live"; you can also then be certian of it ending up in the right namespace (rather than moving it around between the Talk, Project, Help and other namespaces). To submit via AFC, simply add the tag {{subst:submit}} to the top of your sandbox article. Yunshui 雲‍水 06:59, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Adoption

Howdy Yunshui! Thanks for the offer for new user adoption. Since putting that up, I think I have learned quite a bit about editing. I took the userbox off of my page. Thank you again! PrairieKid (talk) 15:00, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes, you didn't exactly come across as a wide-eyed newbie, bewildered and bemused by the arcane intricacies of Wikipedia... Thanks for de-categorising yourself; happy editing! Yunshui 雲‍水 07:01, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Shōkansai Iizuka

Hello! Your submission of Shōkansai Iizuka at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Acroterion (talk) 03:17, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

I took care of one problem myself: if it's DYK length and has eight references, it's not a stub. Acroterion (talk) 03:20, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
I've popped up an alt hook; thanks for catching that. Yunshui 雲‍水 07:07, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Completing peer reviews

I'm supposed to do peer reviews for two of my classmates and I can't figure out how to technically do it... can you point me in the right direction? Eparness (talk) 13:34, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

You'll have a bit of a job, since you've been far-and-away the most productive student so far, and I don't think else has requested an offical peer review on their articles. My suggestion would be to do what the students on my other course did; leave a review on the article's talkpage with an assessment of what's been done well, what could be improved, what you'd like to see expanded and so on (an example of their approach can be seen here). You can also pitch in and add to the articles as well, if you see fit. I'd recommend giving your thoughts on The Poor of New York and Alla Kigel, since these have seen the most student activity; although if you can give your classmates some ideas on how Costume design and Broadway theater could be expanded you'd be doing them a favour. Yunshui 雲‍水 13:47, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, will do! Eparness (talk) 13:52, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Tocha (game)

The DYK project (nominate) 00:02, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Seeking for Guidance

Hi Yunshui,

I had submitted an article on 'Cullen Investments', which was declined on 17 April 2013. Here's the link for your reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Cullen_Investments

Previously the article was declined on 31 March 2013 due to insufficient references considering which the reference list was updated considerably.

This time the reason for rejection is 'promotional stuff'. I'll be grateful if you can help me with the editing and successful submission of the same article. Additionally it will be good if you can point out a few lines in the article which sounds like promotional stuff.

Thanks

Ingoddess2805 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ingoddess2805 (talk • contribs) 09:51, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi Ingoddess2805. You've had a few bits of good advice on your talkpage, which I can only really echo. Basically, the way to fix the problem is this:
  • Gut the article of any information that is sourced directly to Cullen Investments or its subsidiaries.
  • Locate additional third-party sources - newspapers, books and the like - that mention the company: this ought to get you started.
  • Rewrite the article using only information that can be derived from those sources. This includes information that does not paint the company in the best light; you will, for example, need to mention the unsuccessful court case against Jowanda Holdings.
  • Add minor, uncontroversial information sourced from Cullen itself; this would be things like staffing numbers or site locations.
To be honest, there may not be enough on the company to warrant a separate page; most of the information I've located in a cursory search would be better used expanding the existing article on Eric Watson (which could also use some attention).
As for examples of promotional wording, the overall tone is very much that of a corporate brochure, but some particular highlights to watch out for are things like:
  • "offers a range of farm management and technology services to improve the productivity and profitability"
  • "has a widespread property portfolio"
  • "one of the country’s more exclusive private retreats"
  • "carries out an extensive research"
  • "The achievements are depicted by the successful receipts of its drafts"
  • "specializes in fresh New Zealand cuisine"
and so on. Basically, if a sentence sounds as though it could have come from Cullen's marketing team, it needs to go. Yunshui 雲‍水 06:56, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Yunshui. You have new messages at Alexf's talk page.
Message added 12:19, 6 May 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Alexf(talk) 12:19, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Shōkansai Iizuka

 — Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:08, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Your opinion !

Hello Yunshui! I hope you are doing good and kind as always ! I would like to ask your opinion again on the question which I asked a few days ago in Teahouse about User space and Article space. Please have a look at this page User:Mwinyimkuu . IMHO, I believe this is a Biodata about the person. My first step will be to inform the person that wikipedia is not a job hunt website ? I would like to know if it is a right step. Ghorpaapi (talk) 09:28, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Sorted - I've deleted the page (G11, if you're curious) and left him a message about it. Thanks for flagging it up. Yunshui 雲‍水 09:40, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
Thank you ! :)Ghorpaapi (talk) 09:50, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
Looks like this could be a more widespread problem than I first thought - apparently someone in Tanzania is trying to train people to use Wikipedia by having them post their CVs and contact details. Facepalm Facepalm. Keep any eye out, would you, and let me know if you see anything similar. Yunshui 雲‍水 09:52, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
I come across such user pages a couple of times in a day. I will make a list of those which I suspect are not in accordance with WP:Userpage policy and or flagg it directly when I sure. Ghorpaapi (talk) 09:55, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
How to handle this one ? Marilyn Arsem Ghorpaapi (talk) 12:43, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) Has been prodded. Lectonar (talk) 12:50, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
That'll suffice. No more activity from the Tazanians; I'm hoping that I didn't scare them off (but seriously, who advises their students to post all of their personal information anywhere on the web, let alone a public, heavy-traffic website like Wikipedia?). Yunshui 雲‍水 13:10, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
It might be a result of a seminar/speech from an important person in the university, who might have mentioned his own BLP on wikipedia. It might be a viral source. Ghorpaapi (talk) 13:13, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
I don't think it's that - one of them specifically stated that he was being trained. Well, hopefully the deletion of several of their pages will have prompted their (irritatingly uncommunicative) tutor to review Wikipedia's guidelines; hopefully they can come back and be a little safer and more policy compliant. Yunshui 雲‍水 13:16, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
Boy! that is what I missed.When one of them stated, it makes things clear to a great extent that they went under training. Ghorpaapi (talk) 13:29, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Invitation to join WikiProject Admin Nominators

Hello. You are invited to join WikiProject Admin Nominators, a project which aims to support editors interested in nominating at Requests for Adminship. We hope that you will join and help to shape the new project. AutomaticStrikeout (T • C • Sign AAPT) 20:04, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Ajayandalex

You might want to block this guy; even after your warning he's shown no intention of stopping. So a print encyclopedia, a strawberry shortcake, and a sycamore walk into a bar - wait, have you heard this one? (talk) 12:01, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

No worries; it's been taken care of. Cheers! :) So a print encyclopedia, a strawberry shortcake, and a sycamore walk into a bar - wait, have you heard this one? (talk) 12:04, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
Should really have blocked him instead of warning, it's pretty clear that nothing productive was going to come from that account... Good call, Reaper! Yunshui 雲‍水 12:06, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 06 May 2013

Purple Strategies

Hi Yunshui! Thanks so much for reviewing and moving my draft article for Purple Strategies live. As you might have seen from Huon's note on the AfC entry, I have a COI here as I wrote the article on behalf of Purple, so I'll make sure to add a "connected contributor" template to the Talk page. I was wondering if you could help me with a small update to the article: adding the logo to the infobox. I've uploaded it but prefer not to edit articles directly where I have a COI.

The file is here: File:Purple_Strategies_logo.png Would you mind adding this for me?

Thanks again, really appreciate your review of the article. 16912 Rhiannon (Talk · COI) 19:24, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Dennis, much obliged. Yunshui 雲‍水 20:24, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
Thanks Dennis! I see what you mean about the white space: it didn't look too bad when I was uploading but in the infobox it's a bit much. I'll crop and re-upload. (Also, thanks again Yunshui!) 16912 Rhiannon (Talk · COI) 23:51, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

How do I?

Hello Yunshui, I was just debating with myself whether to bother you - again - when your name popped up on my screen, so fate made the decision for me! The FCI, which is sort of the European Kennel Club, has uploaded all of it's breed standards as word documents. How do I include a link in the dog breed info boxes as the old link is just showing as an error? If you go to a google search like this and click on the third result given, that's when it downloads the word doc; but how to I put that in the English Setter info box? Help, please! And no, I'm definitely not going to allow you to retire! SagaciousPhil - Chat 11:25, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Like this, I'd say. There's no reason you can't uses the download URL as a link. Helpful? Yunshui 雲‍水 11:42, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
Sorry; should have added: you can't go to the download and take the Google link from the address bar there; you have to copy it from the Google search page (or remove the extranous parts of the URL). Yunshui 雲‍水 11:45, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
I am as always so totally in awe of your knowledge and expertise - and I have to add patient understanding to the long list as well! Thank you (I knew you would know how to do it!) SagaciousPhil - Chat 11:50, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
No problem, pleasure was all mine. If everything I got asked was so easily resolved, I'd be a happy admin. Yunshui 雲‍水 11:52, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Userbox:duplicationdetector

Yunshui, Please see Village Pump: DYK_tools. Looks like Duplication detector has migrated to Labs. — Maile (talk) 13:20, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

I just dropped by to check you had seen this as well! SagaciousPhil - Chat 13:30, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
Sorted now, thanks for the heads-up. I use Earwig's myself, so hadn't noticed the change. Yunshui 雲‍水 13:31, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
Thank you! I always ran stuff through both earwig and duplication detector..... SagaciousPhil - Chat 13:35, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
Admirably thorough. Can't be arsed with the legwork, myself. Yunshui 雲‍水 13:36, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
Have you tried installing the link classifier? Makes articles light up with all sorts of different colours, making DAB links etc really easy to spot; the only trouble is I can never remember what the varying colours mean, so had to make a user box for it so I could look them up! SagaciousPhil - Chat 13:53, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
I had it in my scripts for about five minutes once; gave me a migraine. Just blue and red for me, thanks. Yunshui 雲‍水 13:56, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Gold medal

You beat me to the punch. Basalisk inspect damage⁄berate 13:28, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

I seem to recall seeing something else about this today; some concerted GNA attack based on DR Who spoilers. Keep a weather eye on the horizon for more... Yunshui 雲‍水 13:34, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
Hmm. That template one was particularly worrying. I'll keep an eye. Basalisk inspect damage⁄berate 13:37, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Confusing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/DavidYork71

The comments at the bottom of the page no longer make any sense

One part of the text suggests that something is confirmed (what was confirmed?), and then a contradictory item is provided...

The duck test was important to ascertain one way or other - and the layout of the comments made so far are not clear.

So it was not David Yorke71 after all that? If that is what is being said, I wonder if there are reviews of whether sock producers methods might disguise their tracks? sats 08:59, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

No need to respond - I have read the conversation at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nick-D - I will let it go at that sats 09:17, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

HI! Inquiry about a question at Teahouse that you replied on.

Hi Yunshui. I was wondering if you would have any objection to my deleting the teahouse Q&A thread "Looking for newbies to cooperate against obstructive editors!". My feeling is it was purely disruptive. Gtwfan52 (talk) 03:16, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

None whatsoever; I very nearly did so myself (had it been anywhere other than the Teahouse, with its slightly more generous ethos, I would have). Yunshui 雲‍水 06:43, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Teahouse

Taking inspiration from you, I joined the Teahouse as a host and answered to one of the questions. However I feel that the answer is just too complex. Would be great if you can give me a few tips to give the answers. ♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛ Talk Email 07:58, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Hey Vaibhav, long time no see! Answering questions at the Teahouse is pretty much like answering questions anywhere else, with the following extra provisos:
  • Be super-friendly (you should have no problems with this!)
  • Try not to reply with a load of links to WP:RANDOMSTRINGSOFLETTERS (a few well-labelled links are okay, though)
  • Keep answers as concise as you can
  • Always leave a talkback (I find the talkback scripts handy for this)
If you haven't already found your way to the Host lounge, there are some useful pointers there, as well as helpful links.
As regards your answer, everything you said was correct, but it might have been a bit overly specific - the questioner asked where to go next if he wanted to help with translations, not for instructions on how to translate interface messages, so you gave him more information than he needed. Often, it's better to provide the minimum amount of information so that the user can get started with what they want to do, rather than explaining every nuance. For example, we quite often get asked about how to use references - whilst we could respond with a detailed explanation of how to use refnames, refgroups, multi-column references, Harvard citation style, the various citation templates, the reliable sources policy and so on, it's much more helpful to say: "Put the citation between <ref> and </ref> tags, and add {{Reflist}} at the bottom of the page."
Welcome to the world of Teahouse hosting! Good to have you on board! Yunshui 雲‍水 08:14, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
Its really great to have a teacher like you. :) ♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛ Talk Email 10:13, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Colin A. Ross

I have replaced your note at REFUND, because the article had actually been deleted, you caught it just after I restored it, before I had removed the PROD. Regards, JohnCD (talk) 09:40, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Timing's a wonderful thing... thanks for the redaction. Yunshui 雲‍水 09:42, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

雲‍水

This should have worked, but it didnt: {{DISPLAYTITLE:User:<span style=font-family:simhei,sans-serif;">Yunshui 雲‍水</span>}} It is the non-Latin characters that are barfing the whole line, it worked fine without them. Can't say why. Saw you trying, tried to help. Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 14:35, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

My two cents: It doesn't because your registered username does not contain 雲‍水. Trust me, it would work if you changed your username to that. Cheers, ☯ Bonkers The Clown \(^_^)/ Nonsensical Babble ☯ 14:39, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
I once tried changing my user name title to King of the Atlantic Pearls... Sadly didn't work either. ☯ Bonkers The Clown \(^_^)/ Nonsensical Babble ☯ 14:39, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
Thanks. It is indeed because the Chinese characters don't appear in the canonical form of the title; adding them would therefore make it impossible for the software to resolve to the right name. Thus, anything using DISPLAYTITLE has to use the actual page name. It works on your page, Dennis, because although the formatting's different, the actual text of the title is the same. As you can see, it took me a few tries to figure that out... Yunshui 雲‍水 14:41, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
Me too... But now, moving the page might help ☯ Bonkers The Clown \(^_^)/ Nonsensical Babble ☯ 14:45, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
Oh dear heavens, no; that way madness lies. Yunshui 雲‍水 14:49, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
I wonder if there is a hack that will let you embed an image of the characters. You can't in that template, but there may be a work around via CSS embedded into the page :) Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 15:07, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
To be honest, I was more curious than anything; my vanity doesn't run to working out the CSS coding for such a thing. (Dollars to doughnuts Writ Keeper's written just such a hack already anyway...) Yunshui 雲‍水 18:14, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 13 May 2013

Steal is such an ugly word....

...but I may steal this from you some day [1]. Had I been drinking milk, it would have been all over my monitor. Best use of movie quote. Ever. Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 12:47, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

We should use it to replace those tired old {{uw-vandal4im}} warnings... and get Mr Neeson to deliver the block in person. I wonder if he edits here? Yunshui 雲‍水 12:50, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
I would like to add: Hasta la Vista, baby :). Lectonar (talk) 12:53, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

You deleted the page Ashiqur rahman mehrab

Sir,

You deleted my page Ashiqur rahman mehrab. It was a legitimate article. He is a current famous singer in our country and it was not a hoax or anything fake. I have worked the whole day writing it, and it means a lot to me. So can you please check back the article and reinstate it? or give specific reasons why it was taken down? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.4.173.55 (talk) 16:14, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Flyby restoration while my wife's on the phone; it's now at User:Shudorshana/Ashiqur rahman mehrab. Fix it up before moving it back to article space, please! Yunshui 雲‍水 19:35, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
Okay, she's still talking... main issues to address are: no independent sources (=automatic deletion), excessive promotional content/tone (also =automatic deletion). Deal with those first, we can fix the formatting later. Yunshui 雲‍水 19:38, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

You deleted my article Sushma Karki

Hi There, you deleted my article which is notable and is valid for Wikipedia. She is the current popular and famous actress of Nepal. If you would kindly restore I can add additional references. Thanks Ashishlohorung (talk) 11:36, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Given that the entire text of the page was "Sushma Karki is popular actress of Nepali movie industry." and the only source provided did no more than mention her name in passing, there's really nothing there worth restoring. You are free to recreate the page, but please don't bother unless you can provide multiple sources which provide significant coverage of the subject. Yunshui 雲‍水 11:50, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Michael Moss

Hello Sir, I am sorry for nominating it for deletion. That was the result of a mistake, actually I was using a new tool, Kissle, for the first time, I will be more careful next time. Regrets again! Faizan 12:36, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

No worries, it's easy to make cock-ups when you start out with a new tool (I was forever having to undo my own Igloo edits back when I started using it). Yunshui 雲‍水 12:41, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
Ty Faizan 12:43, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Bonshō GA

Hello Yunshui, what a lovely article to review at GA. My only comment is really that the lead is a little short, so I'd like to see a few lines summarizing the rest of the article. All the best, Chiswick Chap (talk) 14:23, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the swift and comprehensive review. Much to my regret I'm going offline now, but I'll try to fix the lead up later tonight; I'll drop you a note when I've done so. Cheers, Yunshui 雲‍水 14:25, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Bonshō

Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:36, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Good work Yunshui! Faizan 09:40, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
For being a very good administrator. Cheers. Sincerely, WorldTraveller101(Trouble?/My Work) 15:06, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Not sure what I did to deserve that, but cookies are always appreciated. Thank you. Yunshui 雲‍水 06:55, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

The Barnstar of Diligence
For displaying an affinity to bell ends on wikipedia! ♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 16:49, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Always nice to get a barnstar for content work (as opposed to vandal-thwacking) - especially from one of Wikipedia's most prolific authors. Thank you very much, Dr, B. Yunshui 雲‍水 06:57, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for the straightforward explanation you gave to my doppleganger! Theroadislong (talk) 08:07, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Ducks go quack, it's just what they do... Yunshui 雲‍水 08:15, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Nomination of Mohamed Zairi for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Mohamed Zairi is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mohamed Zairi until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amlaera (talk • contribs) 08:06, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, !voted. (!Voted keep, in fact, which rather surprised me...) Yunshui 雲‍水 08:22, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Ozone layer protection

Yo, Younshway, someone asked me about lifting the semi-protection on Ozone layer, since it's the featured article for improvement, and I wanted to check with you before considering it. Any thoughts? Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 21:12, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

I'd say lift away - there's not much point in having an article for improvement if no-one but confirmed editors can improve it; that sort of defeats the whole point of AFI. I'd suggest putting the lock back again afterwards, although we could just wait and see - another RFP won't harm anybody...
Also, I can't help but notice that you appear to have made a slight error in the spelling of my username; you might want to take more care with such things. Wouldn't want you getting a reputation as some sort of slapdash scallywag without the nouse to check a fellow's userpage, would we? Yunshui 雲‍水 21:17, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
Quite the opposite; I'm trying to wean myself from mentally reading your username as rhyming with "unshooee". Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 21:22, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
That's what folk round these parts say when they want easy access to a horse's feet... Yunshui 雲‍水 21:25, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Help with a dispute?

Hi! I need some help with an article that there's some dispute over. I created a page for Caleb Lawrence McGillvary, only for it to be nominated for deletion fairly quickly by another user. The guy has had two separate events, both of which have had scads of news commentary. If it was just one or the other I wouldn't have created an article, but the two events are separate and have nothing to do with each other. The AfD was pretty much a snow close as a keep, but now the editor that was trying to delete the article has been removing a lot of stuff from the article. He says that what he removed was "titillating details", but some of it was rather heavily mentioned in the press. Perhaps we don't need as much detail as I'd had, but I think it's a little too much to just remove everything and boil it down into 2-3 sentences. I don't think he's deliberately sabotaging the article, but it's still pretty obvious that he doesn't think the article should exist and I think there might be a slight COI there. I think that some of these things should be included, such as McGillvary posting a status on Facebook (which has been mentioned in about 90% of the news reports so far) that he'd been raped. At no point did I say that it was the victim of the crime that raped McGillvary or even if the attack really happened. I pretty much just said that it was an alleged attack and that he didn't say if it was the dead guy or when it happened. I think that's a pretty important detail that should be included. I trust you, so if you say "nay" and that the current status of the article should remain, I will trust your opinion since you're not involved in the process of keeping or deleting the article. I just feel a little uneasy that someone who was trying to get it deleted a few days ago and still believes that the article isn't notable enough to be kept is pretty much dictating what is or isn't allowed to be in the article. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 03:50, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Bearing in mind that I've not had my coffee yet this morning (so my judgement may well be impaired) I'd say there's a bit of a problem with WP:BLPCRIME here - as far as I can tell, McGillvary has not been convicted of the Galfy murder, only charged. Until a conviction is made, you need to be extremely cautious about including information related to the murder charge - one could argue that it's a sufficiently high-profile case (having made the news more than once) to warrant coverage, but it would be equally easy to argue that our policy prohibits the inclusion of this material. It's pretty borderline, IMHO.
Anything that's "alleged", especially in a BLP, requires very careful consideration. In this case, inclusion of the material regarding the supposed rape could conceivably have real-life consequences (Wikipedia content has been cited in court proceedings more than once in the past). I would be extremely wary of including material that is primarily speculative in a BLP; my instinct would be to cut that information out.
My advice, for what it's worth, would be to prune the article down to its bare bones and put it on hold for a while. If the murder charge is upheld, then McGillvary will definitely meet the notability requirements and we will need an article about him. On the other hand, if he is acquitted, then he's only notable for one event, and you know what that means... However, this is just my 2¢; you might be better off taking it to the BLP noticeboard for a more extensive discussion (and you may get a completely different opinion there). Yunshui 雲‍水 07:23, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
  • I'll admit that it's not what I want to hear, but you put this a little better than the other person did. Plus I have to admit that since you weren't involved (and because I can trust you in general), I don't have to worry if there might be a bit of a conflict in what you're saying. I felt a little bad typing that on the article's talk page and on the BLP page, but I was a bit worried that the one person dictating what did or didn't get to remain on the entry was the same person who was trying to delete it and was still vocal that the page shouldn't be retained. It's sort of a conflict in a way, y'know? I just wanted to get the opinion of someone non-involved that I trusted. Thanks! Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 04:17, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
You're always welcome. Sorry it wasn't the response you would have wanted - but do remember, whilst I call 'em as I see 'em, I can be pretty myopic - I would have no objection if you sought out a third opinion form someone else as well. Yunshui 雲‍水 06:46, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Collie

Morning, Yunshui, here I am bothering you again! Yesterday I reverted an addition to the Collie article and left a message on the editor's talk page. The editor has left a message on my talk page and put the links back in again. I have tried to have the courage of my convictions, replied on my talk and undone the edit again - but the seed of doubt has been sown, so I've trotted over to see if you think I'm reading this correctly? I certainly wouldn't have known about dispute resolution with the first couple of edits I undertook and I'm not sure if conflict of interest might also apply to some extent? I've loads of 'proper work' to get through this week, so doing this in haste! SagaciousPhil - Chat 06:51, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

You're absolutely correct. Per Source list, entries in lists (either standalone or embedded) must meet the same standards of notability as article subjects. Since we have no articles on Candy the Collie, Dorothy Bodoin or the Foxglove Corners books, Candy doesn't make the cut. I'm also going to drop a more severe warning on User:EBodoin, reagrding their self-evident conflict of interest. Do watch out for 3RR, though - this wouldn't qualify as blatant vandalism, and so is still subject to the usual rules. Yunshui 雲‍水 07:29, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
Thank you! I had thought I probably wouldn't be able to revert it again. The article is in pretty poor shape and really needs a major overhaul - maybe I'll get round to it one day but at the moment it's at the bottom of a lengthy list; there's just not enough hours in the day...... SagaciousPhil - Chat 13:13, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
It looks as if User:EBedoin has been entertaining themselves overnight! Maybe I'm wrong but is Snowwhite2468 an additional account for the same person? The website link has been re-added to the Collie article and a page was created for Dorothy Bedoin, then rapidly deleted. EBedoin has also been messing about with James Ferguson, 1st Laird of Pitfour but was reverted, so they then put a WP:PROD on the page, which I haven't removed as I thought if I did it would probably just wind them up even more. I have solid work for the next two/three days, so am literally typing this while slurping breakfast! Sorry to keep bothering you but I'm not sure where else to turn.......PS: the drawback of the notification system is not being able to link to the relevant talk pages. SagaciousPhil - Chat 06:28, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
I was considering filing an SPI, but that's such a clear case of socking and pointy editing that I reckon a straight-up block will save time all round. Snowwhite2468 is indef blocked as a sockpuppet, EBodoin's on hiatus for a week. Let me know if you see him/her around again in any other guises. Yunshui 雲‍水 07:02, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
Thank you! By the way, the link to the Bedoin website that started all this was re-inserted by Snowwhite2468 and is still on the Collie page. Now I'm grabbing lunch before continuing to work - going to get indigestion at this rate! SagaciousPhil - Chat 11:38, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
Not any more, it isn't... Yunshui 雲‍水 11:40, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
Your speed and efficiency is truly awe inspiring! Now, if I briefly mention that my grass needs cut, could you just nip up and promptly do that as well? Except the police have apparently been tweeting about roads closed due to....... wait for it....snow!! SagaciousPhil - Chat 11:46, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Medical and pharmaceutical uses of marine macroalgae

Hi Yunshui. Thank you for moving this to an English page name. You seem to be quite proficient in Greek, so I wanted to ask you if this article could be an original research essay. The structure and the professional referencing made me think of that possibility. De728631 (talk) 14:05, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps - it's been G2ed now, so the question is moot. However, just to set the record straight on my proficiency in Greek: I can recognise the alphabet, and I have Google Translate bookmarked in my browser - that's as far as it goes... Thanks for the flattering assumption of competence, though! Yunshui 雲‍水 19:12, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
Heh. For future reference, there are {{contrib-el1}} and its siblings. Cheers, De728631 (talk) 11:29, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
That's jolly useful; didn't know about those. Thanks for the tip. Yunshui 雲‍水 11:36, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Horror Pain Gore Death Productions deletion appeal

I created the page for Horror Pain Gore Death Productions, which is an actual record label in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Their webpage can be found here: http://www.horrorpaingoredeath.com/

This record label releases physical albums (actual CDs) of many national and international artists they have signed (artists page: http://www.horrorpaingoredeath.com/artists.html as well as http://www.metal-archives.com/labels/Horror_Pain_Gore_Death_Productions/627). Furthermore, they are the sole distributor for many legendary metal acts for which they now own the rights, such as Death (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_(metal_band) as is sold here http://www.horrorpaingoredeath.com/store/deathhuman2.html).

I argue that the individual bands signed to this record label, who actively release music and play live shows, are significant enough to warrant Wikipedia pages (many of the releases are reviewed by both national and international media, for instance: http://www.metalhead.it/?p=19786 and http://www.deafsparrow.com/nihilistinen-barbaarisuus-review-2013.html). As such, if these bands were to link to their record label, I feel it would only make sense that the record label thus warrant its own Wikipedia page.

Thanks for your consideration, and please contact HPGD if you want to make sure this is all legitimate (http://www.horrorpaingoredeath.com/contact.html). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mikamage (talk • contribs) 21:28, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Notability on Wikipedia isn't inherited - the children of celebrity parents are not considered inherently article-worthy, the books of acclaimed writers aren't automatically given a page, and the record labels of famous bands are not considered notable purely by virtue of having released music by famous bands. You are welcome to create a new page on Horror Pain Gore Death Productions, but you will need to add sources to demonstrate that the label itself has been the subject of significant coverage. Simply being an outlet for notable music acts isn't enough in its own right to pass Wikipedia's basic inclusion criteria. Yunshui 雲‍水 21:38, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 20 May 2013

Welcome to WDL!

Hey Yunshui! I'm so happy to see you signed up to join the project - welcome. Even more impressed to see outcomes already, right on!!! Be sure to watchlist your favorites, as they will continue to grow as new content gets added to the WDL website. Also, you can always search the WDL website for something that you're interested in. And be sure to share your outcomes here. If I can help with anything just ask and welcome aboard! SarahStierch (talk) 17:19, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Anything which feeds my obscure-Japanese-article-creating habit is good by me. I shall enjoy trundling through the to-do list... Thanks for setting up the project - looks like there's a lot of useful starting points and sources there. Yunshui 雲‍水 06:54, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks

I just wanted to express my thoughts about you in this mile-long discussion. I added this important thought to my comment afterwards. Best regards. --76.189.109.155 (talk) 03:24, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Thank you; those were some very kind words. Whilst I'm not sure that I actually am the model admin you seem to see (I make as many cock-ups as anyone else here!) it's good to know that there are still some people I haven't ticked off yet. Appreciate the sentiment. Yunshui 雲‍水 07:00, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
You're very welcome. Trust me, the accolades are well deserved. And I've seen several other editors post comments of praise about you. Have a wonderful weekend. --76.189.109.155 (talk) 09:32, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

New article

Dear Yunshui:

I saw your name at The Teahouse and thought I'd try directing my question to you. Thanks in advance, for your advise and guidance.

A largely unsourced article (about me, but not written by me) was recently deleted. This was brought to my attention by a graduate student doing research in the field of multicultural choral music in the US - a professional area of interest of mine. The closing administrator in my case, Mark Arsten is currently on a wiki break. I have now put together a sourced article (using the required secondary sources) that I'm hoping to have reviewed/get input on and used to replace the earlier unsourced one. I've spent a couple of hours on the DRV pages and gone to The Teahouse, but am still totally confused on how to proceed. Am hoping you can help. Many thanks! Larrycaptain (talk) 17:04, 21 May 2013 (UTC)Larry Kaptein

Hi Larry. I'm in agreement with DGG's comments at the deletion review - I've no issue with the article being recreated, but it currently contains too much minor detail, and too many weak references. If you'd like me to, I'd be happy to try editing and/or reconstructing it for you. I've also commented (to much the same effect) at DRV. Yunshui 雲‍水 07:03, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi Yunshui-

Thanks for your input and for your very kind offer to assist me recreate the article. Honestly, this is my first excursion into Wikipedia, so when I edited the deleted article I purposefully added lots of detail, thinking more was better than less. There are three or four strong secondary sources listed in the citations, perhaps that really all that's needed. Again, your willingness to offer assistance is incredibly generous and very much appreciated. 98.245.92.62 (talk) 16:48, 22 May 2013 (UTC)Larry

Hi Yunshui- I just checked the Deletion Review Log and a third administrator has now weighed in. He was quite critical of the youtube clips which, as an inexperienced Wikipedia editor, I had no clue as to how to treat - whether they should be in or out. Sorry, if their inclusion was totally out-of-bounds. If you're still willing, I would love to take you up on your offer to "try editing and/or reconstructing it for you." Don't know how to proceed at this point, but am anxious to remain in contact. 98.245.92.62 (talk) 14:34, 23 May 2013 (UTC98.245.92.62 (talk) 02:10, 27 May 2013 (UTC)Larry

Dear Yunshui, I just checked the Deletion Review page and find I am perhaps fighting a loosing battle. As I mentioned earlier, I included YouTube videos of conducting performances and University publications thinking "more was better." This was obviously not the best strategy. I don't know if you'd still be willing to help me advance an major revision of the article (perhaps simply as musician, not an academic - at this point, I don't really know?) but, I certainly wouldn't attempt this again without your advise and guidance. 98.245.92.62 (talk) 02:12, 27 May 2013 (UTC)Larry Kaptein

A difference

Yunshui, the refs re Hridayeshwar Singh Bhati speak to his notability as a young inventor (disabled, and a patent-holder), but not to the notability of his game. (The focus of the articles is on him, his age, his disability, his invention patent. Not on the notability of his game. He is notable for having a patent at young age in conjunction with his disability, but his game, has no notability as a game in its own right. The game is ancillary to the "child patent-holder" notability credit. The game itself has found no notability, nor has it probably had time to, as a game in its own right.)

Just to demonstrate how "chess-ignorant" the ref articles are, the ref from The Hindu has article title "Chess prodigy with a difference". (Oh yeah? A "chess prodigy" is a player who excells at the game at an early age. That is the definition. There is no account of Hridayeshwar being good at chess at all, and especially no attempt to assert he excells at the game. It is a completely misleading, un-journalistic use of phrase "chess prodigy".)

So, I cannot see any basis for article on his game (which would require RS on his game per se, not on or about him as a personality or BLP-candidate figure). (And so, what is it even doing then, in Chess variant, which are for notable games?! [I am apt to remove it on that basis. What say you!?])

Sincere, Ihardlythinkso (talk) 12:34, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

I can certainly see your point - WP:NOTINHERITED, WP:Source list and so forth. Certainly I don't think six-way chess is notable independently of its nine-year-old creator; to be honest, I doubt that it ever will be (let alone the 60 player version he apparently has in the pipeline...). I've no objection if you feel that it doesn't belong in the list of chess variants, feel free to remove it.
(And yes, The Hindu's misuse of "prodigy" irked me, too!). Yunshui 雲‍水 13:07, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
Ok, am glad to get your agreement (it confirms my thinking too). (The deal is, there are several other variants included in Chess variant, that also have no ref basis for being there. So, as matter of consistency, it is really not equitable to delete the Six-player entry now, unless the others go too. [And I'm too lazy to inventory all the delete-candidates for now. Someone else can if they want!] I do feel strongly however that Six-player chess has no ref basis for its own article at this point. [So now, or later, vis-a-vis Chess variant, it's due for removal there. But I feel maybe better to do at same time as the others. No one really cares when, to be truthful. So I feel we can give the boy and his dad a break for now by letting the entry stand. A half-year from now, and all non-notables will be shed together maybe.]) Thank you for your understanding, and dialogue on this matter. Sincere, Ihardlythinkso (talk) 13:27, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
Update: The recent promotional additions (including "chess prodigy" and "youngest wheelchair-bound inventor in the world") were a bit much (not at all supported by the sources), so I've removed them. (Didn't you previously advise that editor to not update the article due to COI!?). I don't know enough re categories to know what or how to properly employ them, so I didn't change any, but the category adds at the article also seem to have gone way out of proportion. Thx for your attention, Ihardlythinkso (talk) 11:14, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
Good call, thanks for the despamification (I notice that it seems to have been pretty heavily refbombed as well; I'll have a look at that later and perhaps trims a few). This is clearly going to be one to keep an eye on... At the moment, the categories seem to be generally okay, although I'll remove Category:Chess variants since the article's subject isn't one. Yunshui 雲‍水 06:55, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
Thx. (As you can tell, I prefer to be conservative when comes to deleting others' contribs, feeling more comfortable erring "safe side" as I get more confident re WP policy. [I feel deletes carry offense potential thru possibly being seen as "aggressive". Just my personal style -- I know "bold" is Wiki-OK; perhaps I'll become more jaded over time {presuming I'll have that time of course, as you can see an Admin has been recently been attempting to round up Admin friends' pitchfork support for my eviction from the WP, based on: "obviously not here to help build the encyclopedia", "exceeding the threshold of WP:DE in everything they do", "everything they do seems to focus on spreading misery", "constantly injecting drama in events unrelated to themselves solely for the purpose of wreaking havok", "a habit of attacking every admin that they cross paths with", "obviously not here to build an encyclopedia, but instead to disrupt one", "Wikipedia is better without them", "they are disrupting purely for the sake of disrupting", "the hidden and reverted mocking comments from them", "obvious that the purpose is solely to disrupt the normal and necessary functions here", "their comments have made it clear they hate everything about Wikipedia", and "who are obviously trying to undermine Wikipedia" -- all wild, uncocked, irrational, distorted, unfair, untrue insults intended to degrade & defame. Is that kind of hate-spewing towards editors accepted at WP, especially when coming from an Admin? They seem to think they are above the CIV rules, because they are Admins, and protected by their buddy Admins. Meanwhile, reg. editors have no powers, and they know that.}]) Ok, Ihardlythinkso (talk) 08:44, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
Nothing wrong with erring on the side of caution (I've deleted a number of references from the article, but only those that clearly violated WP:RS or (in one case) were copies of pre-existing references). In the same vein, I'm going to deftly sidestep the issues you're currently having with an unnamed admin - if you recall, the last time I tried to intervene it didn't exactly help the situation... Yunshui 雲‍水 09:05, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
It wasn't my intent, but perhaps at least provides some more insight, puts in better perspective, how a reg. editor such as myself might get a bit defensive and/or sensitive at user Talk. (I wasn't asking for your involvement, merely seeking perhaps add'l understanding.) Thanks in any event, Ihardlythinkso (talk) 09:42, 28 May 2013 (UTC) p.s. There's also this (both the Email I received, and the invitation from an Admin to "out" it to multiple-user audience). Ihardlythinkso (talk) 09:59, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
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