User talk:Wilhelmina Will/Archive 3

Premier Reserve League 2008-09

I can understand why you think it is a hoax. Something without a source has no back up information to prove that the suject isn't made up. However I would not try this and the article I was trying to create was meant to be beneficial for wikipedia. The article is simply a follow on from Premier Reserve League 2007-08. I don't know what information you found that suggested that I made a hoax on the Golden Gate Highway because I never have made on article on that or even heard of it. I would like to know where the information came from and why you still can't accept my article.

92.12.193.58 - 28 May 16:54

AFC

		The Articles for Creation Barnstar
		For your eagerness to work in AFC as part of the team and all your hard work, I award you this barnstar -- ShinmaWa(talk) 04:57, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

You might also want to join the Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation. -- ShinmaWa^(talk) 04:57, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Gerobatrachus

On 29 May, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Gerobatrachus, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 11:21, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

I must say...

...It's good to see you creating so many noteworthy articles lately. Looks like your old habit of eviscerating South Park articles was just a phase. Glad you've grown out of it. Cheers. --Captain Infinity (talk) 17:25, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Daniel Montbars

On 30 May, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Daniel Montbars, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 12:31, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Premier Reserve League 2008-09

I'm not quite sure what website you're talking about but if you can make the article then I'm not stopping you. What is the website anyway? Just thought I'd add, the best reference I could find was on one of the teams, Blackburn Rovers Reserves, pre-season friendly games and some stadiums going to be used for the 2008-09 season by Northern clubs. If you want to look click on the link. I don't know if it would be any use.

http://www.rovers.premiumtv.co.uk/page/ReservesFixtures/0,,10303~1313745,00.html

92.12.193.58 - 30 May 16:05

Corlss P. Stone

This request for creation has been declined. Please do not modify it.
This is an archived discussion. Please do not modify it.

DYK nom issue

Hi - the hook of the nomination of Pieter Ita which you may want to address. Vishnava _talk 16:09, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

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more translation

"J'adore les Français" is probably the best Matthieu (talk) 19:28, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Mystriosuchus

The article is way too short for GA status. It will require a lot of work. I wish I could help but I am rather busy right now and have not much time for wikipedia. Good luck! :) ArthurWeasley (talk) 18:20, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:VeronicaStar.jpg)

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Corsochelys

Look at other extinct reptile pages, and take your cues from there. Please do not simply list a collection of references without in-text citation. Wikipedia articles are not there to be collections of links and/or references. I've noticed that is a problem with all of the pages you have created. Mark t young (talk) 12:18, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Sorry for taking so long to get back to you. I've given the page a clean up and I think it is now in good shape for expanding upon, and being a model for how to do other palaeo-pages. Keep up the good work! Mark t young (talk) 14:44, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

6/4 DYK

On 4 June, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Nathaniel Reed, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Bedford ^Pray 00:56, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

LBT Userbox

I've made a Land Before Time Userbox, if you want to add it to your user page copy and paste the following: {{User:Ye Olde Luke/LBT}} If you can think of some way to improve it please do so. Enjoy! --Ye Olde Luke (talk) 18:35, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Asano Nitobe

A7 refers to real persons, organizations, and web contents. This article falls into none of these categories.24.0.146.162 (talk) 01:08, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Articles To Look Into Creating

This request for creation has been accepted. Please do not modify it.
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Articles To Look Into Creating: Bruce Neckels

Bruce Neckels is an American television writer, actor and director. His writing credits include Days of Our Lives, The Light Years, Spyder Games, Cross Examiner, Family Passions, Santa Barbara, Generations, and The Young And The Restless. He earned a Bachelor of Arts Degree from San Francisco State College, in Radio-Television Broadcasting, with a minor in Drama. He served two years as the President of the Studio City Chamber of Commerce, and is friends with Sally Sussman Morina. External Link: IMDB: Neckels, The Planning Report, The Hollywood Reporter —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.69.107.37 (talk) 05:19, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

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Articles To Look Into Creating: Deborah Spera

This request for creation has been declined. Please do not modify it.
This is an archived discussion. Please do not modify it.

Re:Those suggestions in AFC.

Hello, Wilhelmina Will. You have new messages at Mww113's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Unsigning contributors

Hi Wilhelmina, when those users manage not to sign their contribution, you can see who they are by looking at the history page of the WP:AFC. Thanks for working on that WP:AFC, we seem to be getting a bit of a back log again! We need people like you helping out. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 07:20, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

DYK

On 20 June, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Jan Willems, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Gatoclass (talk) 09:30, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

DYK

On 20 June, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article John Nutt, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Gatoclass (talk) 16:41, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Buddy Wolfe

Hello. I'm the author of the Buddy Wolfe article and who submitted it to Wikipedia:Afc (thanks for approving it by the way!). I noticed you submitted it to appear on the main page as a DYK fact. Here are some other highlights of his career if you'd like a choice for an alternative hook. All these of course are cited in the article.

1. Wolfe was a sparring partner for boxer Mohammed Ali prior to the infamous "boxer vs. wrestler" match against Japanese wrestler Antonio Inoki. Ali also faced him in an exhibition match prior to facing Inoki.
2. Wolfe faced (and lost) to Andre the Giant at Madison Square Garden in his (Andre's) first match in the WWWF.
3. Wolfe was married to popular Canadian female wrestler Vivian Vachon. His wife and daughter were later killed in a drunk driving accident. (This last one might be a little too tragic to include). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.74.197.215 (talk) 19:20, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:TrixieTang.jpg)

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6/21 DYK

On 21 June, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Charlotte Badger, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Bedford ^Pray 05:35, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Vancouver Island

Nice to hear from you. I'm sure there's other Wikipedians from Vancouver Island; Template:User Vancouver Island oughta find more! Thanks and have a great day and enjoy your wikiing! Miss Madeline | Talk to Madeline 03:12, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

DYK

On 22 June, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Rick Rhodes, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Vishnava _talk 18:30, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Messages on my main userpage from User:86.42.81.16 (talk.) (2008-06-24)

Why don't you mind your own fucking business. Whore.

(Derived from: [1])

I'm pretty sure that's not your business. Just fuck off and leave me alone.

(Derived from [2])

Self harm

Hi Wilhelmina, I don't know why you copied that abuse onto your talk page - just delete it! Keeping it is just harming yourself. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 04:26, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

I appreciate you keeping calm, especially with the raging teen emotions around the place! Graeme Bartlett (talk) 04:40, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Matsuura Takanobu

On 24 June, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Matsuura Takanobu, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 15:44, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

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Tom Davies

That is a silly rule, if it is a rule, which I doubt.

And no, I do not want to create an article on this person. Shchaste was written by Medvedkin. Devushka s korobkoi was written by Boris Barnet. The person described does not exist. Please remove this article from Wikipedia. Thank you. --192.75.48.150 (talk) 19:07, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

• You're welcome, but please in future consider not enforcing this or similar rules, and giving the benefit of the doubt to those who appear to be trying to do something positive. Especially if you're not even sure they're rules. I will trouble you no further. --Alsdfhsdkfhhsd (talk) 19:27, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

will done will

On 27 June, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article John D'Andrea, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Victuallers (talk) 22:53, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Southern Woolly Lemur

On 28 June, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Southern Woolly Lemur, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 08:04, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Psephophorus

On 30 June, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Psephophorus, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 19:01, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:IgArbch-Zoop.jpg)

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Thank you

This brought a smile to my face. An excellent response to unarticulated concerns. --SSBohio 04:33, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Faisal Manzoor Arain

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George Scott (wrestler)

On 3 July, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article George Scott (wrestler), which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

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Happy Independence Day!

As you are a nice Wikipedian, I just wanted to wish you a happy Independence Day! And if you are not an American, then have a happy day and a wonderful weekend anyway!  :) Your friend and colleague, --Happy Independence Day! Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles^Tally-ho! 04:10, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Bronko Lubich

On 5 July, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Bronko Lubich, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 13:13, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Daniel Elfrith DYK

On 7 July, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Daniel Elfrith, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Congratulations! --PeterSymonds (talk) 09:30, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Ctenochelys and Vincent Gambi DYKs

On 7 July, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Ctenochelys, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--PeterSymonds (talk) 15:33, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

On 7 July, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Vincent Gambi, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Congratulations! --PeterSymonds (talk) 15:32, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Palaeontology

Hi WW,

I was wondering considering all the good work you've been doing with fossil turtles if you'd be interested in joining the Palaeo project? Best, Mark t young (talk) 19:52, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Faisal Manzoor Arain

A tag has been placed on Faisal Manzoor Arain requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G12 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be a blatant copyright infringement. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material, and as a consequence, your addition will most likely be deleted. You may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. This part is crucial: say it in your own words.

If the external website belongs to you, and you want to allow Wikipedia to use the text — which means allowing other people to modify it — then you must include on the external site the statement "I, (name), am the author of this article, (article name), and I release its content under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 and later." You might want to look at Wikipedia's policies and guidelines for more details, or ask a question here.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 15:24, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Re: Congartulations!

Thanks again for having some time to come up with a greeting like that. Tell you what. I created the article because it didn't exist when I tried to find it after seeing an announcement of the show on television. I then asked myself in mind "If nobody created it, why don't you make it?" So then I start. I stopped making edits on it shortly because I ran out of ideas. Well it's good that you and some others where around to expand it. FoxLad (talk) 09:23, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Saw you on AFC

Your signature is weird. Thanks for helping with the backlog, though :) Sceptre ^(talk) 17:10, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

I loved Animaniacs, by the way. Sceptre ^(talk) 17:16, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

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Polyptychoceras

On 14 July, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Polyptychoceras, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 06:05, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

AfC

Hi there! Greetings. Are you still looking at the Greek pianist? I only ask because it's been more than a "couple of hours" now. For your information there is a useful template you might like to use for this purpose:

Review in Progress. A reviewer is in the process of closing this article request. The result should be posted shortly. As a courtesy, please do not edit this request while this message is displayed. The user who added this notice will be listed in the page history. This message is intended to help reduce edit conflicts, and to avoid reviewers duplicating each other's work. If this request has not been edited for more than an hour, it is usually safe to remove this template.

By the way I also note that you have been improving people's suggestions on the AfC page. This is not something we usually do before creating the article. (I guess because there is no point spending time tidying it unless it is going to be created ...) Anyway, see you around. Best wishes, MSGJ (talk) 07:22, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Hi again!

1. Do you know we also create the talk pages of articles we create through AfC? Just add Template:WPAFC with an appropriate option. (See the template page for more details.)
2. You shouldn't have done this! If you wanted me to accept it I would have been happy to. But making it appear to have been my edit is not generally acceptable.
3. You might like to add yourself to the project members list: WP:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation#Participants. And welcome!

MSGJ (talk) 08:09, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Greetings

		The Barnstar of Good Humor
		I just found this and laughed out loud. Thank you! I admire, too, your tireless and excellent work on new articles. RobertG ♬ talk 08:54, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

I completely agree with the award, and -- oy -- I love that message you left on the anon's page. That's great! Keep up the good work, WW ... and I see you need no encouragement that maintaining a sense of humour is the way through the forest here ... :) Antandrus (talk) 17:03, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

DYK

On 15 July, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Mesotherium, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Gatoclass (talk) 09:50, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Tierra Redonda Mountain

Tierra Redonda Mountain is mostly copied from the web. Also, you copied it incorrectly, "The Redonda Formation is the thickest locality on the mountain," it is thickest on this mountain. Other problems. --Blechnic (talk) 07:27, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

I dare by reading it. How dare you! Of course, changing the state from California to New Mexico made it a bit harder to find.... --Blechnic (talk) 07:32, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Copyright problem: Tierra Redonda Mountain

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia! We welcome and appreciate your contributions, such as Tierra Redonda Mountain, but we regretfully cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from either web sites or printed material. This article appears to be a copy from http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/fo/bakersfield/Programs/planning/rmpcontents/chpt11_tierra_redonda.html, and therefore a copyright violation. The copyrighted text has been or will soon be deleted.

If you believe that the article is not a copyright violation, or if you have permission from the copyright holder to release the content freely under the GNU Free Documentation License (GFDL) then you should do one of the following:

• If you have permission from the author leave a message explaining the details at Talk:Tierra Redonda Mountain and send an email with the message to "permissions-en (at) wikimedia (dot) org". See Wikipedia:Requesting copyright permission for instructions.
• If a note on the original website states that re-use is permitted under the GFDL or released into the public domain leave a note at Talk:Tierra Redonda Mountain with a link to where we can find that note.
• If you own the copyright to the material: send an e-mail from an address associated with the original publication to permissions-en(at)wikimedia(dot)org or a postal message to the Wikimedia Foundation permitting re-use under the GFDL, and note that you have done so on Talk:Tierra Redonda Mountain.

It is also important that the text be modified to have an encyclopedic tone and that it follows Wikipedia article layout. For more information on Wikipedia's policies, see Wikipedia's policies and guidelines.

If you would like to begin working on a new version of the article you may do so at Talk:Tierra Redonda Mountain/Temp. Leave a note at Talk:Tierra Redonda Mountain saying you have done so and an administrator will move the new article into place once the issue is resolved. Thank you, and please feel welcome to continue contributing to Wikipedia. Happy editing! Blechnic (talk) 07:39, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Tierra Redonda Mountain

This article has been deleted, and I have replaced it with the parts of the article that were not a copyright infringement. The deletion was to remove the infringing material from public view. Please do not copy text directly from webpages - even moving one or two words around does not prevent it being called copyright infringement. I suggest finding another source, and then combining the information from both to produce text in your own words. Thank you for contributing to Wikipedia, and if you have any questions, please ask. Fritzpoll (talk) 13:32, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Wilhelmina, since it was from the BLM website, the text was in the public domain, so technically it's not a copyright violation. I'd still recommend rewriting in your own words though. (I responded to you also on my own talk page.) It's a worthy topic that needs an article since it's an Area of Critical Environmental Concern (here's the description of what that means, if you're not familiar with the BLM's language). If you're not from the U.S. -- I realize I honestly don't know where you are from -- BLM is the Bureau of Land Management, the huge agency that oversees public land, mostly in the western U.S., that is not already overseen by the National Forest Service, Park Service, or other entities. I can help with the writing of the basic description of the place if you like, when I have a moment. Have fun! Antandrus (talk) 21:40, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Samuel S. Adams

On 16 July, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Samuel S. Adams, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 23:48, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Mike Sullivan (wrestler) DYK

Hi. I've reviewed your DYK submission for the article Mike Sullivan (wrestler), and made a comment on it at the submissions page. Please feel free to reply or comment there. Cheers, Olaf Davis | Talk 14:55, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Oioceros DYK

On 18 July, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Oioceros, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Jamie^☆S93 14:25, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:Chomper-of-TheLandBeforeTime.jpg)

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Orphaned non-free media (Image:Littlefoot-of-theLandBeforeTime.jpg)

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Bette Sussman DYK

On 19 July, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Bette Sussman, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Daniel Case (talk) 15:08, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Lee Holdridge

On 19 July, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Lee Holdridge, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 21:02, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

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You're being talked about

Here.[3] --Blechnic (talk) 08:52, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Ctenochelys

This article is wrong. You've misread the source. The article is about the new information that it probably is not a crown group sea turtle. The article is a mess.

I've posted a comment about you and your articles on WP:AN/I; as I've spent a couple of hours reviewing and tagging your articles for their problems. Every one of your articles that I have reviewed from your vanity page announcing your DYK awards is seriously problematic.

I've alerted the editors at DYK, and they have agreed to monitor your future contributions more closely.

Please stop copying from other websites and pasting into Wikipedia. Please stop being so quick with articles that you get the basic information wrong, such as mixing up states. Please don't make redirects that you know are wrong, such as a redirect about a New Mexico fossil formation to a discussion of a California fossiliferous formation. I've had that redirect deleted.

--Blechnic (talk) 00:36, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Hello

Hi Wilhelmina - I'm Fritzpoll, and I've been looking over a lot of your articles as a result of Blechnic's post to one of our administrator's noticeboards at Wikipedia:AN/I#Another_Carol_Spears_editor:_wrong_information.2C_copyvios.2C_broken_links.2C_spam_links.2C_bad_geography.2C_bad_interpretions. I'd like you to come and read that thread and keep an eye on what is going on, since your have been adding factually inaccurate material to the encyclopedia. I think you could benefit from some guidance on what we're here to achieve, and how to write articles. I think you're a very productive editor, but just need a hand to focus your writing. Would you be interested in being "adopted" by me for this purpose for a few weeks? Let me know (going offline in a mo, but I'll check back in the morning) Fritzpoll (talk) 01:23, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Oaaa

Do you have any source for this other than the two you put in - some sort of Q&A site and a glancing mention in the Guardian? Have a look at the Wikipedia guideline on reliable sources - I don't think either of those would count as sufficient for an article, and I have failed to find any confirmation. I will do a bit more searching, but unless you or I can find some better source I will propose the article for deletion. Regards, JohnCD (talk) 09:51, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

I found it. It's the ‘O‘o‘a‘a, a.k.a. Kauaʻi ʻŌʻō, for which an article already exists. I've redirected. Gordonofcartoon (talk) 11:31, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

What a boring day :)

You probably missed the change that was made the AfC page yesterday. There are a few submissions in Category:Pending Afc requests‎ which need reviewing. Cheers! MSGJ (talk) 08:17, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

It was suggested

to me that you might sometimes want to ask my advice about the location and interpretation of sources, or in rewriting and summarized them for Wikipedia purposes, with regard to at least biology and some other academic subjects, including most history and literature. I'll do what I can to help if you chose to ask -- on my talk page, an article talk page, your talk page, or by emailDGG (talk) 18:02, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

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Personal attacks

Please could you stop the personal attacks in your edit summaries per WP:NPA - [4][5] Writing them in L33t doesn't make it any more acceptable. Gordonofcartoon (talk) 03:28, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Based on this I have asked that this particular article be removed from contention for DYK. I will also ask at AN/I that this editor be banned from DYK for some period of time until she understands that writing a good and accurate article is what Wikipedia is about, not her medals. --Blechnic (talk) 04:46, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

I have asked that the Mesodermochelys article be removed from candidates for DYK.[6] I also think the editor should be banned for some time from DYK until she reconsiders her actions, due to the nature of her edits, having already been accused of plagiarizing, and now purposefully reverting substantive edits to make the edit count for DYK to obtain her count award, and doing this while using personal attacks in edit summaries. See the DYK link for links to further details. I posted this on a couple of user pages, but it should be discussed at DYK or AN/I. --Blechnic (talk) 04:46, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Really, Wilhelmina, was there a need for this? It's certainly a personal attack. Firsfron of Ronchester 04:48, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

I have asked that the article be removed from competition for DYK and, on AN/I, I have asked that Wilhelmina Will be banned from contributing to DYK until she gets things figured out.[7] --Blechnic (talk) 04:58, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Further to that, I'm not keen on this disingenuous reply to me [8] claiming the personal attack in l33t was merely a code for a harmless message. Gordonofcartoon (talk) 09:18, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Wilhelmina, we can't promote articles at DYK when there is a dispute about their factual accuracy. Obviously you are upset with Blechnic, but if you want your article promoted you will have to work productively with her and other editors to resolve any outstanding disputes before your articles can be promoted. Regards, Gatoclass (talk) 05:25, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Wilhelmina, it would be very worthwhile, if you want to prevent a DYK topic ban to comment at the thread about you at WP:ANI. Your actions (including, in my opinion, insulting the intelligence of Gordonofcartoon with that "code" nonsense) are leading to the topic ban accumulating support. Fritzpoll (talk) 10:25, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Hello

If you have not looked already, could you please look here. User Blechnic has started an AN/I page. I asked the user, and other users, to refrain from any personal attacks.

I am writing to you now in order to talk to you, and I welcome any communication in response. It seems that the user, and some others, are having recent problems with your actions. Which ones? I do not know. However, I know the emotional strain that results from such conflicts. It seems that everyone is starting to be affected. I ask you to try and work things out, talking directly to people, and focus only on specific content. Some of your actions have made others feel uncomfortable, and this will escalate into them attacking you in response. This is not good for the community, as we need to focus on building an encyclopedia, and fighting only hinders that.

I hope this makes sense to you. It appears right now that the community wishes to prohibit you from working on DYK, because it is believed that the conflict stems from your participation there. I am sure that if you promise to cooperate with others, and be friendlier in the future, that this will help prevent such things from happening. However, a lot of people who have been affected by your actions previously will not trust such things. So, I implore you to try and make it up to them, to try and be civil to them, and apologize for any emotional harm that they may have experienced. In turn, I hope that they do the same for you. We need to work together, and it would help everyone involved.

Is that possible?

Thank you for your time. Ottava Rima (talk) 22:16, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

David Nichtern DYK

On 1 August, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article David Nichtern, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Congratulations! PeterSymonds (talk) 01:49, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

WP:AN/I post about your ignoring community ban for particpation in WP:DYK

I have posted at WP:AN/I to have your nomination to DYK removed in enforcement of the community ban against you for contributing plagiarized and wrong contributions to DYK, and for removing factual edits to articles to increase their word count for the purpose of gaining awards under false pretensions.[9] Some of the contributions on your awards board have had to be edited to remove your misinformation. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. --Blechnic (talk) 22:45, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

I have asked you before to stop harassing me. I don't have the time or patience to participate in your discussions. There is work to be done here, and that matters more than anything else. Mess around with the guy in shades all you like - don't mess around with the girl in gloves! (talk) 23:38, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Wilhelmina, community participation also matters here, and in ignoring these "discussions" you have missed the community's ban of you from participating at DYK. Please do not participate at DYK, but continue creating articles in a productive manner. If you wish to appeal this ban, I'd go and participate in the discussions that you are dismissing so lightly. Best wishes Fritzpoll (talk) 23:42, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Why must I not participate in DYK? I am more careful about the sort of content I include nowadays; there is no reason for this ban other than retaliatory harassment. Mess around with the guy in shades all you like - don't mess around with the girl in gloves! (talk) 23:43, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

I am not the one imposing it - it was decided by community consensus at a previous discussion that I advised you to participate in. If you want it overturned, go to AN/I now and post. I am simply the messenger, don't shoot me for the bad news you don't like. Fritzpoll (talk) 23:45, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

For your reference, the discussion was here. regards, Fritzpoll (talk) 23:50, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

I Agree

As an impartial observer, without direct contact to the user or her topics, I have to say I agree with the above sentiments. The user is abrasive, on a power trip, and a menace to Wikipedia. The community would do better without people like this in it. For the record, I vote that she be permanently banned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.107.0.73 (talk) 23:46, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Nonsense. There is no grounds for such an action - the user has not been disruptive thus far. Fritzpoll (talk) 23:47, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

That's how I get vandalizers to behave.

When they are being abusive to the pages, I tell them I'll track them down and claw them. Many of them have since shaped up and become really good, constructive editors.

WP:DYK nominations and Wikipedia ban, your nomination has been removed

I removed your nomination from WP:DYK per the community ban which you have now acknowledged you have received notice of.[10] In addition, another user has advised you on how to deal with the ban if you disagree with it. --Blechnic (talk) 01:02, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

That's nice, and you've had your fun with me. You may please go away now. Mess around with the guy in shades all you like - don't mess around with the girl in gloves! (talk) 01:07, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Your DYK ban

I came across this because of a situation with Ottava Rima As I was led to a preliminary investigation of what happened, I saw that OR had requested another user retract what was seen as a personal attack on you. I concluded that, indeed, you had been attacked. And I can see that, in many ways, you were treated unfairly. However, Wikipedia isn't always fair, at least not in the short run. The situation is that, for whatever reason, the AN/I report on your behavior led to a poll which showed massive support for a DYK topic ban. It would be difficult to overturn that at this time, but it's not impossible, if it matters sufficiently to you. In the other direction, your response to the concern of other editors -- whether it was fair or not -- did not help matters. Incivility breeds incivility, failure to assume good faith breeds failure to assume good faith. I have not extensively reviewed your contributions, but it seems you were doing good work, and I'd like to encourage that. If I can be of assistance, let me know, either here or on my Talk. --Abd (talk) 16:01, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

DYK ban

Uh oh Will, you're in deep now, yeesh. I don't think these folks know you're only 16. I sure hope they overlook all this at your RFA. --Captain Infinity (talk) 17:44, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

New report on DYK about your stated intentions to ignore and skirt your DYK topic ban

[11] --Blechnic (talk) 06:41, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Request for assistance at John McGraw

I've looked through some of your contributions, and you seem to have some real writing ability. Notwithstanding my position on the DYK ban, I would really like it if you would stop by the John McGraw article and have a look. Also, if you would consider joining the FACC, I think that might be a good idea as well. We're trying to get this article (as well as the England article) up to featured status. Any help you could offer would be appreciated. Regards, S. Dean Jameson 16:41, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Sources and interpretation

Hi there, Wilhelmina, I don't think we have talked before. I read (skimmed) the section on AN/I linked to above and saw that some of the problems you have had may have arisen from having to work from a limited set of sources. I have access to most journals on-line and if you ever need access to an article or advice on how to interpret scientific articles just drop me a note on my talkpage or send me an e-mail. All the best Tim Vickers (talk) 17:29, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

"Weird messages"

What am I to make of your referring to Tim and I's notes as "weird messages"? S. Dean Jameson 19:54, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Its weird that nobody will leave me alone. And now new people are coming in and frightening me. If I could just go ten days without any messages except those from the Wikipedia Signpost deliverer, I'd be much happier. Mess around with the guy in shades all you like - don't mess around with the girl in gloves! (talk) 19:55, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

I asked for your help

No one is "frightening" you. I asked for your help. Tim offered you his help. This is a collaborative project, WW. We're trying to give you some ways to work on it as such. S. Dean Jameson 20:00, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

You've been against me in all of those discussions. I don't know about Tim, but I know I can't trust you, or any of those I'm aware voted against me. Mess around with the guy in shades all you like - don't mess around with the girl in gloves! (talk) 20:03, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Not "against" you at all

I simply felt that your actions at DYK weren't the best way to go about things. I've offered you an opportunity to work on a collaborative projec that I've spent a ton of time on, and Tim offered you the chance to ask him (an expert in the fields in which you made your mistakes) any questions you might have. Why do you keep insisting on removing these discussions so quickly? You're assuming incredibly bad faith of my genuine offer to work with you on an article I care very much about. S. Dean Jameson 20:10, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm scared because you and Blechnic and the others won't give me a rest. Everyday a new discussion shows up at AN/I. All I am doing is trying to make something of myself here, and I truly believe Blechnic is jealous, and wants to run me down, otherwise, why won't he/she stop when I've asked them not to harass me? And I must archive these discussions or else they'll attract attention. I'm working on an article now, so please take depart. Mess around with the guy in shades all you like - don't mess around with the girl in gloves! (talk) 20:19, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

I've started zero threads at ANI regarding you. I was genuinely offering you a chance to work collaboratively on an article of interest to me. If you don't wish to do, that's fine. Also, Wikipedia isn't about "making something of yourself", it's about working together to make the project better. That's just my $0.02. Take it or leave it. S. Dean Jameson 20:23, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

That's what I'm doing: making something of myself by working on this project. And I cannot join a project because if I did, I would want to run it myself. I'm a leader, you see. Besides, I wouldn't have the time for it. DYK or not, I have to write ten thousand articles in my lifetime, and now that I think of it, that wouldn't be enough, either. Mess around with the guy in shades all you like - don't mess around with the girl in gloves! (talk) 20:30, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

WikiProjects aren't for everyone, certainly, but collaborative efforts are one of the most important part of this project. As you've stated your lack of interest in working on the article I requested your help on, I won't post here further on the matter. S. Dean Jameson 20:44, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Repeated unwanted postings to your Talk pages can be "harassment"

Wilhelmina, you have the right to request that particular users not post to your Talk pages, if you find it to be disturbing, harassing, or for whatever reason you choose. You can't prevent proper warnings, or such, but I think you already know that you may delete this without reserve, for deleting them shows you have read them. If you ask a user not to post further to your Talk pages, and the user continues after the request, that user could be blocked. To make this most clear, you should warn the user on their Talk page, or, if you ask, and you post a request here, I'll make sure that the user -- whoever it is -- is warned. I'm not going to get involved, at least not yet, in who is "right," I'm simply explaining your rights, which you may already know.

If I see a thread on AN/I that I think you should look at and possibly respond to, I'll tell you, and you have some other advisors who have tried to help you and who would do the same. Find friends, editors you can trust, and listen to them, seek and follow their advice. Still, if someone says that there is an AN/I thread on you, it's probably a good idea to look at it, but not necessarily a good idea to respond until you are sure of what to say or do. One of the things that was used against you was your excuse about the code. It was really irrelevant, you could have written what you wrote in code right out in the open with less harm to yourself; the code, combined with the lame excuse, made it look like you were a liar who had something to hide. Don't do it again. Don't lie, even if it seems harmless, just keep your mouth shut if you don't know what to say, nobody can compel your testimony here. Further, Wikipedia, in theory, never punishes but only protects (users and the project). You can make the most dreadful possible mistakes, even vandalize and personally attack, and the only issue is going to be, if a block is being considered, whether it's likely to happen again. So, when you make a mistake, usually the best course is to promptly admit it, because it's over. Ever try to tell a friend how they said something that hurt you? And the friend keeps saying, "I didn't say anything wrong," and keeps making excuses? And what happens? I don't know about you, of course, but many people become enraged in a situation like that, because until the friend gets what was wrong with it, there is a good chance the friend will do it again. And so friends become not-friends, or acquaintances never become friends.

Was it a bad idea to revert an edit to keep the word count up to 1500? What do you think now? Would you do that again?

. I haven't reviewed much of today's happenings, I simply see that Blechnic has been so foolish as to raise a moot matter on AN/I, which could possibly blow up in his face. That is the Administrator's Noticeboard, more or less the 911 of Wikipedia, for actions requiring administrative tools -- mostly blocking --, and there was no substantial sentiment for blocking you, before, and nothing changed. And at some point, attention will then focus on these editors who keep bringing matters to AN/I, wasting huge amounts of time in discussions that go nowhere, in pursuit of what is starting to look like a vendetta. Meanwhile, be careful, don't write anything that could be construed as a personal attack, that's my advice. Kindergarten rules: if you can't say anything good, don't say anything at all. Seems you have already been following this, lately, and you might be exactly right about that. There is a time and place to call a spade a SPADE, but until you know the difference between a shovel and a pitchfork and a spade, maybe it's a good idea to wait and watch. AN/I can be brutal. --Abd (talk) 20:44, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

• I finally came across your last nomination to DYK, and saw that Blechnic had reverted it on the grounds of your ban. He had the right to do that (because the operating presumption at this point, which should be respected, is that the topic ban is in place, so please don't make any more direct nominations until the issue of the ban is resolved), but any unbanned editor could have restored it if the editor agreed that the nomination was legitimate; I think that this activity was simply lost in the flood of edits to the DYK nomination page. I looked at the nom, and to my as-yet-inexperienced eye, it seemed quite legitimate, so I restored it. Thought you might like to know. I suspect it may cause some flap, but we'll see. Meanwhile, keep up your good work, and if you need help with DYK, let me know as we suggested. As long as harassment on Wikipedia is reasonably likely, as it still is, I do suggest you communicate with me about such through email and don't mention it here. However, there is nothing wrong with what I've suggested about that, I'm just trying to avoid unnecessary complications. Unless you ask me not to do so, I'll be reviewing your current contributions and may make some DYK nominations based on them, without any request at all by you, thus finessing the whole ban issue. 28 DYK's? That is, indeed, impressive, and you should be proud of it. Stay out of trouble, okay? (I'll point out that User:Fritzpoll, an adminstrator, explicitly commented here that you have not been a disruptive editor, so, should you decide that you'd like to get the topic ban removed, and from what I've seen recently at AN/I, I think it could be done without a great deal of fuss. But first we have to clean up the mess, clear the decks, so to speak. I expect that will take a few days. Please be patient.) --Abd (talk) 14:47, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

I removed the article. You can't just unilaterally decided for yourself that the community ban is void. There was a prior consensus to ban WW from DYK and we need to overturn that first. By renomming without consensus you will just end up edit warring with Blechnic, and potentially get into trouble at AN/I yourself.

Please be patient and wait until we have some more feedback an AN/I. Thanks, Gatoclass (talk) 15:00, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Gatoclass is right about patience, but did not understand what I did. Never mind. What I'd done was to restore your edit on my own responsibility, it is well-established that this does not violate guidelines. But because I left your signature on it, he may have -- incorrectly -- thought that I was challenging the ban. I've discussed this with him a little, but I went ahead and nominated the article again without your name on the nomination, just mine, and I also edited it -- and the article -- a little. It's my nomination now, though, of course, it remains an article you created. Gatoclass, I thought you had misinterpreted my action as, from the above, it's apparent that you did. I didn't challenge the ban, and, if you will look around, I've continually stated that the ban is in place until something else happens. Your action at AN/I to limit the ban to a month is commendable, but I think it is actually moot. Wilhelmina has shown no desire or intention to challenge the ban, so it's all much ado about nothing, unless Fritzpoll decides to rescind it, or an editorial consensus at DYK Talk appears -- such would not be inferior to an AN/I consensus. Wilhelmina, it will take time to sort all this out. Meanwhile, there is nothing preventing you for creating good articles, and nothing preventing anyone else from nominating them. In fact, if you think that an article is DYK-ready, just note such on your talk page. It's just your opinion, and you have a perfect right to express it. Civilly, of course!

One more thing, Gatoclass. I have no intention of edit warring, I know what it is and have tighter standards for myself with regard to it than the community routinely enforced. By my standards, your revert of my restoration was edit warring. My edit was not, because the original reversion was not for content issues, whereas my restoration was. Then, because it appeared that your revert of me was based on the inclusion of WW's signature, I restored it without that and more completely made the nomination my own. There is no guideline or consensus that would be contrary to my nominating an article that WW wrote. She did not suggest that I nominate this article, so even that phony objection would not apply. But thanks for your considerate warning that I might get into trouble. --Abd (talk) 17:46, 4 August 2008 (UTC) --Abd (talk) 17:46, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Your edit to User talk:Blechnic

I see that you attempted to correct an error of Blechnic's on his Talk page. There was nothing improper about your edit, but I'd advise you to stay away from his Talk, for he is likely to bait you and do anything he can to get you upset. I'd suggest taking it off your Watchlist, frankly, it will just distract you. In this case, your response may not have been helpful. This was an old edit, and you could have written practically anything back then and most editors will pay little or no attention to it. However, technically, you erred in simply copying that material from the Sandbox without verifying that there was no copyvio in it. I'm not an expert on copyvio, and, without researching it, don't know if such a small amount of exact copying would be a problem, but I do know that general advice is to rephrase. Blechnic is searching for stuff to throw at you. Let him sit in his corner, when he comes out and makes a public fuss, it will focus more attention on him, which is where the attention should be. I'm rather amazed he hasn't been blocked yet (i.e., blocked again), but ... the wheels of justice sometimes grind slowly here. It depends on who notices what and when. --Abd (talk) 17:53, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

You're absolutely right, and I will stop after that. But back then I didn't think that anyone would violate copyright, so as you can see, I assumed good faith, and perhaps leaped before I looked. Of course, I'm much more careful in recent days. Thanks! Mess around with the guy in shades all you like - don't mess around with the girl in gloves! (talk) 17:56, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

A person in shades

For your userpage. Not somebody to mess with! :) Tim Vickers (talk) 20:32, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Thank you! That's one of the nicest compliments I've received. Cool pic as well. Mess around with the guy in shades all you like - don't mess around with the girl in gloves! (talk) 20:34, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

No problem, if I can help in any way please don't hesitate to drop me a note. I'm always happy to read stuff over or help find sources. All the best Tim Vickers (talk) 20:42, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

A gift for you

I hope you find some pleasure in this new article. I was inspired to create it by the redlink on your userpage. I hope you enjoy it, and (of course) feel free to expand it, work with it, or whatever. If I can ever help you in any way, just let me know. Regards, S. Dean Jameson 21:40, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Thank you! Mess around with the guy in shades all you like - don't mess around with the girl in gloves! (talk) 21:41, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

No problem. I had a great time writing it! S. Dean Jameson 21:43, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Shawn James AfC

Hey, I noticed you placed a "Review in progress" template on this submission at 7.45 this morning. Just wondering if you reached a decision? (The template suggests removal after an hour) Cheers - Toon⁰⁵ 22:09, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

I haven't yet. I asked a user in the National Basketball Wikiproject to look at a copy of the submission which I had pasted on one of my sandboxes, and give an opinion, but I don't think he's been on Wikipedia for the past two days or so. I'm still not sure if Shawn James satisfies notability requirements. Mess around with the guy in shades all you like - don't mess around with the girl in gloves! (talk) 22:19, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Ok, just making sure you hadn't forgotten about it! Good luck asserting notability. Interesting sig btw. - Toon⁰⁵ 22:21, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Thank you; it's of course in reference to the song "Sunglasses at Night". The gloves part references an obsession I had with gloves after reading The Witches. I actually received a picture of a girl in shades for this signature not even an hour ago! Mess around with the guy in shades all you like - don't mess around with the girl in gloves! (talk) 22:36, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

AN/I report wasn't closed, etc.

Wilhelmina, several things. (1) The AN/I report that supposedly decided your topic ban from DYK was never properly closed. Normally, such a discussion will be closed by an administrator who (1) reviews the arguments and makes a decision (2) notifies any parties affected by the decision and (3) is the person to contact as the first step in lifting any sanctions applied. That nobody ever closed the discussion is why you were never notified of the decision. Decisions are not automatically made on Wikpedia through vote count, rather, all binding decisions are made by individuals who take responsibility for that decision. Since administrator User:Fritzpoll noticed you had never been notified, he reported the alleged ban to you, but he clearly didn't take responsibility for it. Technically, you are not banned; however, since the !vote there was so heavily in favor of a topic ban, though very unclear on details like "How long?", I'd advise you to continue as if there is a ban until a few days more, at least. I've asked Fritzpoll to clarify this. If he doesn't take responsibility for a ban decision, then I'd conclude that there is no ban, without any further fuss, unless someone wants to make a fuss. And that can be addressed if it happens. My own review has concluded that, as far as anything that was alleged on AN/I, there was no basis for a ban, and that, if, as was alleged, you were a terrible editor -- which is far from the case, you are excellent -- then DYK is part of the solution, not part of the problem, since when you submit an article to DYK, it gets fairly close and careful review. But bad editors don't get 28 DYK articles.

(2) The article of yours that I proposed at DYK under Aug 1 creation is still there. My first attempt to replace your nomination was reverted by Gatoclass, but when I then simply nominated it myself, it's been there for a while now. I think Gatoclass simply misunderstood the situation and the guidelines. Blechnic's claim that there was something wrong with another editor nominating your articles found no support at AN/I, and he's been reduced to, at least yesterday, scouring your old contributions for copyvios. Don't worry about it. If you made any more mistakes back then, it's moot. You could have copied entire books, months ago, and it wouldn't mean anything, and even if it was yesterday, at least if you said, "Oops! I won't do that again!" nothing bad would happen. Unless you kept on doing it. Remember, Wikipedia does not punish, and bans and blocks are only used to protect, which is why it's so important, when you make a mistake, to admit it -- or at least don't deny it!

(2) In order to consider the charges made against you, I've found it necessary a number of times to review your contributions. Please keep up the good work. I noticed something today that I thought I'd mention. You used a long series of Undo's to restore your Sandbox to an earlier version. If you want to take a page back to an earlier version, a quick way to do it is to look at History for the page, and open up an earlier version (just click on the time and date display for the version), open an edit window for it, and save it. This will remove all subsequent changes with one edit. It's the poor editor's version of Rollback. You can also access the Edit to restore the old version from any diff.

(3) On behalf of Wikipedia, with the powers vested in me as an Editor, I wish to apologize for the shabby way you have been treated. While it is true that you made some mistakes, Wikipedia is the "encyclopedia that anyone can edit," not just perfect people. Wikipedia is, in theory, very tolerant of mistakes, but sometimes individual editors don't understand that and try to use Wikipedia process to blame and punish, and the very openness of Wikipedia makes it vulnerable to injustice resulting from this. My long-term project here is to make this a rare occurrence, but, in the short term, please don't mistake the actions of a few (even if that few gang up in some place, even if they include some administrators) for the position of the community, which, collectively, over time, is very open, forgiving, and tolerant. And, though you are not a new editor and have, in some ways, far more experience than I, here, I once again welcome you and support your efforts. It's fine if you want to get 10,000 DYK articles. Tough, for sure, but not impossible, especially if some changes take place at DYK. And I trust, fully, that you now understand to avoid certain kinds of actions in working toward that goal, and I trust this whether you reply or not, though it might help explain the matter to others if you do decide to reply. --22:22, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

A procedural error on my part, and I have now accepted responsibility for the closing decision on my talk page. There is nothing personal here, and if your work is good enough over the next little while, I won't hesitate to propose overturning the ban. Best wishes Fritzpoll (talk) 09:37, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

I've thanked Fritzpoll for taking responsibility. While this might look like bad news, I urge you to realize that your intuitions and feelings were correct. There were editors who were presenting themselves as "helpful" who were joining in the rejection of your editorial work. Fritzpoll, I assume, was acting in good faith, he believes what he has written, but a supporter of yours, he was not. I don't like to divide the community into friends and enemies, and I'd urge you to avoid holding grudges of any kind, and I'll also note that our critics can provide us with advice that our friends may overlook or be too polite to voice, but ... there were a series of editors who were condemning your actions, claiming that you were badly motivated (there is nothing wrong with trying to reach 5000 DYK articles or with being proud of your 28 so far), and, at the same time, saying "let me help you," or volunteering to mentor you. My own conclusion, reviewing your work, was that you didn't need mentoring, you simply needed friends, editors who will explain mistakes to you, if you make them, but who will also encourage you and praise your successes. I have asked Fritzpoll to lift the ban. I do not know him well enough to predict how he will respond. Let's hope he does the right thing, and even if he decides not to lift it, let's assume that this will be, in the long run, the right thing (it may cause other good things to happen). --Abd (talk) 12:59, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

I would rather that you didn't put words into my mouth regarding my opinion of Wilhelmina, Abd - it is not your right to do so. I am required to assess community consensus in relation to policy, and this was the outcome. You may not like it, and you may disagree with it, as is your right to do. Personally, I have always felt that WW is well-meaning, but misguided when it came to these violations. You are a good editor WW< but you just need a little guidance before the community will let you nominate at DYK again. Fritzpoll (talk) 13:13, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, Fritzpoll. I don't think I put words into your mouth, the "let me help you" is not a quotation but a description, I'm sorry if it appeared as if it were a quotation. Your view of the role of administrators is something that I'll be bringing up at AN or the Village Pump, I expect, simply because I see that clarification is needed. It is not the job of admins to "assess community consensus," purely, but to examine the basis for that apparent consensus and make conclusions based on the arguments. This is why an AfD closing administrator can reverse a decision that was even unanimous at AfD, simply based on Talk page discussion after close (for example, a recent AfD was reversed by the closer because the nominator was a sock puppet and had presented deceptive evidence, another because more reliable sources were found and shown, etc.). Please, you are an administrator, focus on the issue, which is her alleged copyvio problem and the risk of repetition. I do not see any significant risk, beyond what is normal for editors, and DYK makes the risk less, not more. --Abd (talk) 13:39, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

I was commenting on the "but a supporter of yours, he is not". And yes, I am very well aware that that is the role of an administrator, but as you yourself have acknowledged on my talkpage that you have yet to look at the AN/I discussion where here copyright problems in several previous articles were discussed (hence claims of a persistent problem), I think you need to be a bit calmer about this. Why don't you just let WW come and talk to me about it? I am a reasonable person, I fought tooth and nail via e-mail to keep OR from quitting over the ensuing mess, so I'm not just an uncaring unfeeling drone. But I saw policy violations and a consensus to act - I don't really see the problem with WW coming and talking to me about this, whereafter I can return to the community to say "yes, all is well, please give WW the nod to resume work at DYK". You are not involved. Fritzpoll (talk) 13:45, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Suggestions

Hi. Let me start by saying that I was one of the editors who supported the DYK ban at ANI. Having said that, I must agree with User:Abd that the process was rushed and should have been handled better. I've been looking at a few of your contributions, and while I don't want to minimze the issues that were the subject of that ANI discussion, they don't seem nearly as prevelant as they were made out to be. It even seems that we collaborated recently on the Southern Woolly Lemur article, although my contribution to that was miniscule - I just added a link. Good work on that article by the way - if User:UtherSRG didn't find any serious problems with it, there weren't any. A few other points I would like to make:

1. I hope you have been able to calm down. Nothing on Wikipedia is worth getting upset for 2 minutes about, let alone 2 hours.

2. What I, and I think several others, would like to see is some acknowledgement that you understand the importance of avoiding copyvios and major inaccuracies, and will do your best to avoid them in the future. If you were to do that I think you would gain a lot of support right there. The important thing is not what was done or said in the past, but what will happen in the future.

3. I nominated your Jillian Clare article for DYK. I thought it was a good article, and while I needed to tighten up a few things, I did not see any serious problems. So if that and the article User:Abd nominated get accepted, you will have added 2 DYKs tou your total despite all the drama of the past week.

Anyway, I hope you are feeling better and will be able to return to being a prolific contributor of quality Wikipedia articles going forward. Rlendog (talk) 03:04, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

The Jamie Howarth article got a general approval with a note that it needed three citations. I've provided them, but you might want to look at the article and make sure I did it right.... I haven't used citation templates and so I didn't use them for what I added from IMDB. Rlendog, thanks. Wilhelmina, he's right: there were "issues" but they weren't particularly serious (except when people believed that they were happening all the time), nor worthy of a ban if not continued, and your silence regarding them spooked some of those who commented. I'm sure it wasn't arrogant disregard, and silence shouldn't be taken as proof of anything, but Wikipedia isn't perfect. Good thing, too. If it was perfect, then we'd be expected to be perfect, too. --Abd (talk) 03:31, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Jamie Howarth was promoted, is now in Next Update. Congratulations. Shit! I don't have one DYK and this 16-year-old girl has 29! (Seriously, I've only got a handful of articles I've created at all, my focus is on community process.) --Abd (talk) 13:23, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

I have reason to believe the IMDb listing referenced in that article is incorrect and it might be in your best interest to remove that citation (IMDB usually isn't a very good RS anyway). I have checked the website of the Director's Guild of America and according to that site the winner in the category of "Outstanding Directorial Achievement in Daytime Serials" for 2001, the award Jamie Howarth won according to IMDb was actually won by General Hospital, not One Life to Live. However, looking more closely it looks like One Life to Live won in 2000, not 2001, IMDb is just wrong, fortunately it's not as wrong as it first appeared. You should probably fix the cite to be for the Director's Guild website[12] rather than IMDb however the website doesn't seem to allow linking directly to the listing, how annoying. Anyway, check the site, it seems to be 2000 not 2001. Stardust8212 13:59, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

I added that citation, and, without much experience, have assumed that IMBD is reasonably reliable, based on what I've seen in other articles. The specific reliability of sources is not necessarily something that is immediately obvious. I'll look into it. Thanks for checking. The point isn't my interest or Wilhelmina's interest, but the project's interest, and no individual should be considered responsible for making corrections. Wilhelmina had left a "citation needed" tag on that fact, so she is absolutely not responsible for any problem with it. Anyone is, of course, free to correct errors or request better citations, and that's how it works. Mistakes are made. I can say that the sources for that article have been more thoroughly checked than is normal for Wikipedia articles, but that, of course, doesn't guarantee accuracy. I will make a note in article Talk so that general attention is called to this. --Abd (talk) 15:30, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I was confused. The cn tags weren't added by Wilhelmina, the particular error had been sourced to the newspaper article, which mentioned the Emmys but didn't give the year. The cn tags, in any case, were about different facts, though it was all a bit interconnected. I did find a direct link to the DGA award, which is a page for 2000 *and* certain awards for 2001, which could be what got IMDB confused.--Abd (talk) 16:03, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I didn't have time to find a direct link since I'm at work. IMDb is mostly user submitted, that's why it isn't a good RS just like Wikipedia isn't a good RS. Usually for awards and the like there's a better source if you can just find it. Stardust8212 16:45, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

DYK

On 6 August, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Jamie Howarth, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Gatoclass (talk) 14:18, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

DYK: Jillian Clare

On 10 August, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Jillian Clare, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--PFHLai (talk) 20:37, 10 August 2008 (UTC)