User talk:Underlying lk/Archives/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Auto-generate ref in Infobox South African town?

Is there a reason why {{Infobox South African town}} doesn't automatically generate the census citation and it has to be filled in using the "ref" parameter? I was going to go ahead and automate it but I thought I'd better check first with you. - htonl (talk) 20:41, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

I couldn't get the template to transclude the census code within the 'ref' tag, it would just ignore it and break the link for some reason. I didn't find a way around it so I just added a separate 'ref' to all the articles, but I agree that this is far from ideal.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 20:48, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

OK, I think I have it working. If you delete the ref parameter the template should automatically generate the citation. It won't work for the multiple-places case (like Bloemfontein) but the manual ref parameter will still work for those. - htonl (talk) 21:16, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Re Pomfret et. al. - thanks, I know what the problem is, it'll take a minute to fix. - htonl (talk) 22:00, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Done. (Note that due to the multiple layers of template substitution sometimes the articles don't seem to update immediately.) - htonl (talk) 22:06, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

South African Barnstar

	The South African Barnstar of National Merit
	For improving the templates on a huge number of municipalities and places I hereby award you the South African Barnstar. Thank you for your contributions. NJR_ZA (talk) 16:55, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
	this WikiAward was given to Underlying lk by NJR_ZA (talk) on 16:55, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Thank you NJR, I will add it to my (newly created) barnstar section! Last time I checked the transclusion count for the new template it was about 660 out of 3000+ main census places, so there's a still lot of work to do! :-) --eh bien mon prince (talk) 17:17, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

New South Africa articles

		The Writer's Barnstar
		Thanks for your run of new South Africa articles about locations and towns. Your efforts to improve the encyclopedia and expand information available to Wikipedia readers is appreciated. Northamerica1000(talk) 19:56, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

Thank you very much, it is very kind of you! :) --eh bien mon prince (talk) 20:03, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

Census name accuracy

Re this ("De Kelders" vs. "Die Kelders") - the census often gets the exact spelling of the name wrong, particularly with the sub places. It's not a 100% reliable source when it comes to naming. - htonl (talk) 14:15, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Actually I decided to move it only after seeing that the page on the Afrikaans wiki was also named "Die Kelders". I thought it unlikely that they would get an Afrikaans name wrong, but there it is.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 14:22, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Ah, OK. It's actually kind of a weird case, and I may have been a bit hasty in reverting. The road signs in that part of the world all say "De Kelders", and the sign at the entrance to the village says "De Kelders", as can be seen from this Google Street View. And I know that locals in that area call it "De Kelders". But I just checked the SA Geographical Names System database and that calls it "Die Kelders", and the Trig Survey map calls the village "Die Kelders" but the caves for which it is named "De Kelders"! Still, in this case I think we should go with what the signs "on the ground" say.

Incidentally, do you want a copy of the SA Geographical Names System database? It used to have a website which has died, but I downloaded a copy before it went offline. It has names and locations for populated places and geographical features and so on. - htonl (talk) 15:37, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Sure, it could be useful to identify the places that do not appear in the 2001 census (or at least to check if they actually exist). Do you have it on your website?--eh bien mon prince (talk) 19:50, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

I do now! Here. - htonl (talk) 21:02, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

It's all useful stuff, but there are so many entries that it's overwhelming! I've been trying to match the coordinates from the SAGNS file with the census data by using the VLOOKUP function of MS Excel, but without any results so far as I'm still just learning how to use it properly. Do you think it would be a good idea to transclude coordinates, and if you do, do you know of an easy way we could match the entries from mainplaces with the SAGNS file? Thank you for your help Htonl!--eh bien mon prince (talk) 17:44, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

I don't think we can manage to set up an automatic system for filling in coordinates - precisely because it's not easy to match census places with SAGNS places. I think that will probably have to remain a manual thing. - htonl (talk) 20:32, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

After several failed attempts, I (regrettably) agree that it's unfeasible. In the meantime I have created a separate template for municipalities (Template:Infobox South African municipality) and I found that the area figures are at best simple guesswork, and in some cases completely missing. When I created the municipality-level articles I took the numbers I could find from other Wikipedias (usually the German wiki) as I couldn't find them on the demarcation board's website. The 2001 census figures are outdated in many cases, so it would be preferrable not to use them. Any idea on where we could get them?--eh bien mon prince (talk) 20:48, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

The tables at List of municipalities in South Africa have area and population figures that should be as accurate as possible. The areas I calculated from official boundary data from the demarcation board, and the population is from the 2007 Community Survey, adjusted for municipal mergers and splits. I can give the data to you as a spreadsheet if you like. - htonl (talk) 20:54, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

I will be adding them to the metadata template then. Hopefully we will have something more official to work with once the results of last year census are out (not until early 2013 going by what the official site reports). Thank you again!--eh bien mon prince (talk) 21:00, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Don't do it just yet! I think the area figures on that table are out of date, I'm just confirming that. I think the population should be good though. - htonl (talk) 21:02, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

The population figures I already got from the 2007 community survey, though they need to be adjusted for Tshwane and another municipality that was merged last year (I can't remember its name right now).--eh bien mon prince (talk) 21:07, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

There's a couple - Kagisano and Molopo merged, and also some of the districts were changed to include or exclude certain local municipalities. The population figures on the list of municipalities articles should correctly show those numbers. The updated area figures you can get from my website - districts and local municipalities (metros are listed in both). - htonl (talk) 21:13, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, if you've already downloaded those files, you should download them again, there was a minor error in the calculations. - htonl (talk) 21:17, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Done! Now all that is left is the languages. How did you manage to sort the figures by number of speakers for each municipality for the other template?--eh bien mon prince (talk) 22:20, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

I wrote a small script in python that read a csv file containing the raw data and output the percentages. I can do the same for the municipal data, if you like. - htonl (talk) 10:45, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

That'd be great, otherwise I would have to sort them one by one, and it would take me hours..--eh bien mon prince (talk) 13:47, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

I'm doing it now. The Census data has not been updated to the 2011 municipal boundaries, but I'll adjust where possible for the mergers and splits. - htonl (talk) 19:27, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

It occurs to me that there's no need to keep the municipality data in the same template as the main place data. Maybe we could move it to somewhere like Template:Metadata South Africa/muni? It'd make the main place template smaller and I think it'd make the articles render a bit faster. - htonl (talk) 20:34, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

In fact, we could split up the whole template to simplify matters somewhat. I'm going to have a go at it, but I'm not going to change anything in the main template yet. - htonl (talk) 20:45, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Inviting you to WikiAfrica

We are inviting you to join WikiAfrica and help generate and expand the content of information in africa ,in other words join as to Africanize wikipedia. You can visit us at WikiAfrica and join our growing list of membership at WikiAfrica Incubator and help us test and evaluate this platform which assists new users to wikipedia create their articles (User:Awinda (talk) 15:54, 20 February 2012 (GMT))

North West

I notice you've made the same mistake a few times in the past three or four days, so I just wanted to let you know that our category is located at Category:Populated places in North West (South African province), not Category:Populated places in the North West (South African province). If you think it should be renamed to the wording with "the" in it, then you're welcome to list it for a renaming discussion at WP:CFR — but otherwise you need to make sure you're using the category name that actually exists, because the articles are left uncategorized and have to be fixed by someone from the categorization project if you use the redlinked (i.e. non-existing) version. Thanks. Bearcat (talk) 20:15, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

I didn't mean to rename it or anything, I simply copy-pasted the wrong category several times without noticing. Sorry about that.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 20:26, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

I've made it a {{category redirect}} just in case. - htonl (talk) 20:29, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Cool, no worries. And thanks, htonl. Bearcat (talk) 20:43, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Update re. muni data

So I've made some fairly big changes to {{Infobox South African municipality}}, and I thought I should keep you in the loop. I've moved the data out of Template:Metadata South Africa and into subpages of Template:Metadata South Africa/muni. I've split up the various fields into different subpages, which makes the main template coding easier since it doesn't have to use #titleparts (except for the race and language stats). I've added code that automatically fills out settlement_type in all cases, and fills out the subdivision* fields, including listing the correct district municipality for local municipality infoboxes. In theory, typing something like

{{Infobox South African municipality |blank_info_sec1 = WC032}}

should produce a basically complete infobox.

Tomorrow, if I have time, I'm going to try to extend the code to automatically show the number of wards for a local or metro municipality, and a list of local municipalities for a district municipality. I'd also like to rename the parameter from "blank_info_sec1" to something more meaningful, like "muni_code".

I also don't feel that the name of the mayor is actually something we should be automatically populating from a metadata template. It's something that changes quite often, and upredictably. Everything else is something that changes rarely: area only every five years at a boundary redefinition; population and demographics only when there's a new census, and so on. The name of the mayor, on the other hand, is something that ordinary unskilled editors should be able to fix if it changes without having to learn how the templates work. I'd be happy to go through and add the mayor info directly to the articles before taking it out of the metadata system. How would you feel about that? - htonl (talk) 01:08, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Actually I would keep the list of mayors in the metadata template for the same reason, since it's more likely to become outdated it would be easier to just update them all at once in the same edit rather than having to change them one by one which would be quite a tedious and time-consuming task. Rather we should add a "mayor_as_of" parameter and have the template check whether the name inserted by the editor is more recent than the one stored in the metadata, and transclude it if that's not the case.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 12:41, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

That sounds fair to me. - htonl (talk) 14:07, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

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Population of Kimberley

Please take a look at Talk:Kimberley, Northern Cape#Population of Kimberley. I believe the proper 2001 Census data would solve the issue. Roger (talk) 07:31, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Glenadrienne, Gauteng

I think you should move to without dab and if the dab is needed move to xxxx, Johannesburg.♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:43, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

 Done--eh bien mon prince (talk) 21:59, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, but a lot of them can also be moved withouth the dab. I think it would be better to move to, Johannesburg instead of Gauteng given that they are only small neighborhoods of the city... What do you think? I can try to get somebody to move them all if you haven't the time! You're doing an admirable job BTW, excellent!♦ Dr. Blofeld 22:24, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure, the 'South Africa' section of WP:PLACE says that provinces should be used for disambiguation, and some neighbours are not part of Johannesburg proper but belong to Sandton or Soweto etc. It's a massive amount of work that might not substantially improve the articles... but I agree that redundant dabs should be removed in all instances.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 22:33, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Mm OK, but yeah the non needed dabs should be moved.♦ Dr. Blofeld 23:14, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

IMNSHO suburbs should be disambiguated by city, not province. Roger (talk) 07:11, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure there's a specific policy/guideline about this somewhere. I'm not particularly against it but I'm not sure it's an improvement over the current situation.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 07:34, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Avontuur

The article you created refered to two locations called Avontuur, the town in the Western Cape and a subplace somewhere in Mpumalanga. I have removed all references to the subplace and added some additional details about the town. --NJR_ZA (talk) 13:52, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	South African Barnstar of National Merit
	Consistency is extremely important on wikipedia and its lovely to see how you manage the scale of the task for South Africa. Its amazing what you are accomplishing! Keep it up! ♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:44, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for this award Doctor! ;-)--eh bien mon prince (talk) 12:56, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

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Review for Economic history of Argentina

I see you've been waiting since January for a review over at WP:GAN#BUS. Have you notified either Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Economics and/or Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Argentina to request a review? Viriditas (talk) 13:35, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

I have now, thank you for the notice!--eh bien mon prince (talk) 18:53, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Hello, Underlying lk. You have new messages at Ezhiki's talk page.
Message added —Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); April 11, 2012; 17:17 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

The Economist special reports list

Hi. Back in December you PRODded this, and it was deleted. Undeletion has now been requested at WP:REFUND, so per WP:DEL#Proposed deletion I have restored it, and now notify you in case you wish to consider taking it to AfD. Regards, JohnCD (talk) 14:09, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

OK, done: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Economist special reports list.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 03:41, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Help on Afrikaans wikipedia

Hi there! I saw that you and Htonl have worked on the census data project on settlements in South Africa and I was wondering if you could help me with it on Afrikaans wikipedia? We have a TONNE of settlements that have nearly empty infoboxes and it would be nice to have a simple key to put in for census data :) I'll do the typing and adding that seems easy but I have to say I'm confused with how the whole thing works :) Thanks for your time Bezuidenhout (talk) 21:31, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

There are two main infoboxes being used for South African towns: Template:Infobox South African town and Template:Infobox South African subplace (which one is used in which article depends on how they were classified in the 2001 census). In turn, these templates lean on the more generic Template:Infobox Settlement for most of the coding. The statistical informations are fetched from the template Metadata South Africa or one of its subpages (there are several of them, you can see them all here: Category:South African subdivision infobox templates).

For the infoboxes SA town and SA subplaces to work on af.wiki, the parameters would have to be 'translated' following the field names used on af:Sjabloon:Inligtingskas Nedersetting (the Afrikaans equivalent of Infobox Settlement), e.g. the line | official_name = {{{official_name|}}} would then become | amptelike_naam = {{{official_name|}}}. After this first step, the metadata templates would be copied on af.wiki (but that shouldn't require any major changes).

I'll try to create a working template in my sandbox on af.wiki af:Gebruiker:Underlying lk/sandbox, I will keep you posted on further developments, or if I need some help with the Afrikaans ;) --eh bien mon prince (talk) 21:54, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Ag, thanks so much! The wiki will REALLY benefit from it since it feels like 80% of our articles are about South Africa, and I'm sure if you need any Afrikaans help the friendly Afrikaans speakers won't be too shy to help you out thanks again haha :) Bezuidenhout (talk) 22:05, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

I can help out as well, if needed. Incidentally, this is something that will be perfect for the new Wikidata common data repository, though by the time that is up and running we'll probably have the 2011 census data available. - htonl (talk) 22:09, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Indeed Htonl but I guess then we can add it to "historical data" to all the articles at least? :) Bezuidenhout (talk) 22:12, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Economic history of Argentina

I see FA potential in it. I would be up for working with you on it and attempting to promote to FA.♦ Dr. Blofeld 23:09, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

I would like to see this article featured, too. Pyrotec, who reviewed the article for the GA nomination, recommended taking the article to WP:PR, but even before that, the opinion of an uninvolved editor like yourself would be useful to identify the most glaring shortcomings in the article. Once you did that, I could look for some adequate sources to cover these gaps, and work together to add them to the article.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 20:08, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

I'll try to look into it in the coming week, but I have a few GA noms which I'll have to deal with.♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:26, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

No problem Doctor, I've waited five months for a review, so waiting a few more weeks won't hurt..!--eh bien mon prince (talk) 20:34, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

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Problem with Infobox South African town template

Greetings and felicitations. Since you are one of the most (recently) active editors of {{Infobox South African town}} (ISAT) (and may have caused the problem ^_^;), I thought I bring this to your attention in the hope that you can fix it, since I am not capable of doing so.

I recently edited the Simon's Town article (which uses the ISAT template) and found that it only displays two references, despite having several. This only occurred after the ISAT template was substituted for {{Infobox settlement}}. Would you please be so kind as to look into this?—DocWatson42 (talk) 06:50, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

I count four references now. And btw, I didn't cause the problem because there weren't any, you just had to implement the right fields to the ISAT template. I have done that for you.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 07:03, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Okay—thanks!—DocWatson42 (talk) 04:22, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

Wiki Loves Monuments in South Africa

Dear WikiProject South Africa Wikipedians

This is an urgent call from Wikimedia South Africa. We are currently working hard on the South African side of the exciting international photographic competition, Wiki Loves Monuments [1]. We have been planning to make this national competition really take off, but to do so, we need your help! The competition starts on the 1st September, and we need your help now! If you are interested in being part of or can help the Wiki Loves Monuments national organising team, then please join here [ http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Wiki_Loves_Monuments_2012_in_South_Africa]. If you have limited time, but want to help out at an upload marathon at a heritage site near you, please then contact either Lourie [louriepieterse@yahoo.com] or Isla [islahf@africacentre.net]. We look forward to hearing from you!"

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Trompie en die Boksombende

Hallo, Hoe is jy? Ek wonder hoeveel artikels wat jy het edited sedert u daaraan begin redigeer? --CalmHighball (talk) 00:18, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

Beg your pardon? Even though I'm part of WP South Africa, I don't speak Afrikaans! :P--eh bien mon prince (talk) 00:21, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

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Proposed deletion of Anadolu Kartalları

The article Anadolu Kartalları has been proposed for deletion because it appears to have no references. Under Wikipedia policy, this newly created biography of a living person will be deleted unless it has at least one reference to a reliable source that directly supports material in the article.

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Orphaned non-free media (File:Anadolu Kartalları.jpg)

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Ottoman Empire

Hallo,
please read Wikipedia:Article size before inflating an article with already existing Wikipedia material. Thanks, Alex2006 (talk) 13:20, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for answering! What you write would be true for sure at a paper encyclopedia, but not on Wikipedia, which is a web encyclopedia. Here it is enough to write the section name and then the link to the specific article. I can make you hundreds of examples where your problems is solved in this way. Beside the inflation of the length, what you do is a cloning of the content, which is also strongly discouraged. Bye, Alex2006 (talk) 13:35, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

This is ok. BTW, I am an iron defender of the 3RR, so now you can do what you want (I reverted you twice :-)). Bye, Alex2006 (talk) 13:41, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Unfortunately we are becoming more and more an exception here... :-( Alex2006 (talk) 13:45, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Airdlin

The article Airdlin has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Too short. Not notable enough, in my opinion.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

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A barnstar for you!

		The Award of the Arabian Barnstar
		For all your efforts and brilliant with regards to Middle Eastern articles in general (media in particular) and the Ottoman empire (the irony in giving an Arabian star, no? :-) ). Cheers! Droodkin (talk) 07:10, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Thank you Droodkin! And no worries, I like the Arabian barnstar too, I will continue to contribute to Middle Eastern articles so I can collect more in the future! ;-)--eh bien mon prince (talk) 08:25, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
	For your tireless contributions to WikiProject Ottoman Empire! Antidiskriminator (talk) 02:08, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Thank you so much for this barnstar Antidiskriminator! I'll continue to be tireless and contribute to the project even more in the future! :-)--eh bien mon prince (talk) 02:17, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Arab television drama

Hello Underlying lk. Thanks for creating the new Arab television drama article. I nominated the article to be published on the Did you know section of Wikipedia's main page, but was informed that all paragraphs need to be sourced in the article (except for the lead) to qualify for DYK (see Wikipedia:Did you know/Supplementary guidelines). So, if you're interested in the prospect of this being listed at DYK, feel free to add more sources to the article. The nomination for DYK is located here: Template:Did you know nominations/Arab television drama. Cheers, Northamerica1000^(talk) 06:26, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Arab television drama

The DYK project (nominate) 12:03, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Deletion of Jordan content

I'm sure the other editors on the Jordan article wouldn't be pleased to see all the well-cited and valuable info they added over the past year or so completely vanish. I tried merging what you had included and the original but for some reason that was blocked. Please be considerate to other contributors. I can see if the information was not cited or irrelevant but all of the information was properly cited and valuable to the article. Thanks so much for your help. 74.88.96.196 (talk) 04:54, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

I agree that these parts could be kept, even if not in the main Jordan article. The previous version of the economy section did include a lot of references, but mostly they were a mix of competitive and other international rankings, with little actual information about the economy itself. So instead of being deleted or kept in the main article, these parts can be used to integrate economy of Jordan that currently includes very little sourced content.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 08:10, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

okay thanks 74.88.96.196 (talk) 19:16, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Edits to Iraq

You absolutely did make edits that you masked with a misleading edit summary. The information you changed in the article should have been in a separate edit, and introduced controversial material without adequate sourcing. Therefore I reverted your edit. The bottom line is that your indication that you were [removing] "interlanguage links" while changing substantial information in the article is enough for me to make the decision to revert. If you want to re-add your edits, then how about explaining your edits on the talk page, or provide better sources?? Revmqo (talk) 18:48, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

historians of Quraysh tribe made an accusation to ( Ansi and Musaylima ) of claiming Prophethood

Wikipedia has become a website to falsify the Arab tribes, there is no impartiality in writing articles, because editors depend on sources that hostile to Arabs, for falsification of the famous persons of Arab, I tried to edit some articles but editors insist on distorting the Arab history.

They insist on falsification of Musaylimah and accuse him of being magician and of claiming prophethood. You must find a solution to this problem, or we will take an action may be hard and severe. Abdullah ALkathiri (talk) 12:34, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Algeria

This was a mislick, sorry, but I'm not sure your removals were well justified. Those individuals were indeed born in Algeria, and as I recall, Berbers are only the remote origin - the vast majority of population identifies as Arabs, not Berbers (see e.g. CIA Factbook). Materialscientist (talk) 06:35, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

I've reverted myself. Indeed, the information you removed is questionable. Country overviews are always difficult to keep neutral and relatively free from accumulating clutter. Thanks for your cleanup efforts. Materialscientist (talk) 06:57, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Page notice at Algeria

Hi! I responded at Talk:Algeria#Page_notice_about_the_use_of_French WhisperToMe (talk) 21:37, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

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French in Algeria

Thank you! I sent a talk page message and I am awaiting his response. WhisperToMe (talk) 07:31, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

And so a discussion is occurring at User_talk:Dzlinker#Your_edits_to_Algeria WhisperToMe (talk) 13:09, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

Anyhow I started Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Algeria#Listing_French_name_in_lead_in_Algeria_article WhisperToMe (talk) 04:20, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

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2013 Bangladesh riots

Hi Underlying lk, thanks for your contribution on this article. But I think you have missed the thestatesman news. It clearly says "Many others, including policemen, were also injured when the supporters of Jamaat-e-Islami and its student wing, the Islami Chhatra Shibir, clashed with police and ruling party men at different locations in the country." and "According to officials, law enforcement agencies appeared to be the prime target of the right-wing activists.". Moreover from other references it is clear that Jamaat-Shibir was uniquely or even mostly responsible for the deaths. Thank you.--FreemesM ^(talk) 13:44, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

2013 Shahbag protests

Dear Underlying lk, I don't understand why do you trying to put POV materials. This article doesn't discuss about ICT. There is another article named International Crimes Tribunal (Bangladesh) which deals with ICT. Moreover you are trying to put only blames about ICT, but in ICT article you can see there are many organizations, who welcome this tribunal. So putting only negative info both POV and irrelevant here. Again you have delete the photo gallery, but WP:Galleries says "the use of a gallery section may be appropriate in some Wikipedia articles if a collection of images can illustrate aspects of a subject that cannot be easily or adequately described by text or individual images." Please explain your points.--FreemesM ^(talk) 14:28, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Template:Rashidun Caliphs

Hi, your recent change to the template Template:Rashidun Caliphs needs a consensus as i point out here on the talk page of the template. --Ibrahim ebi (talk) 22:06, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

I just got time to reply to you messages and i think we should talk on the same Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Templates on which you have started a healthy discussion earlier. --Ibrahim ebi (talk) 22:28, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

templates

Hi, I agree with you about Islamic templates, there is also another problem with them and that is they have content. wikipedia manual of style mentions that templates should not do the work of article content in the main article namespace, please see Wikipedia:Template_namespace#Usage line 14. Kiatdd (talk) 19:09, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi Kiatdd! I admit I ignored the existence of that guideline, all the reason more to change them, then! For the matters of style and formatting I had already made a few changes to give the {{Quran}} template a more sober appearance, but this has since been reverted. Clearly more discussion is needed to reach a consensus, so please let your opinion be known here.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 19:27, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

I suggested deleting. Guidelines are clear. We really don't need to discuss matters and reach a consensus (which needs time and effort), we need cooperation!.Kiatdd (talk) 19:28, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi U.IK, many thanks for your edits, regarding templates you have taken multiple approaches: tagged them for deletion and at the same time editing them and requesting an rfc, it is easier if we first discuss which one of the templates is going to be deleted, because this may confuse other editors. Besides the image in page Moses in Islam is the calligraphy of prophet Ibrahim I think I should be Musa_(moses)1.png (instead of Ibrahim_(Abraham)1.png). Kiatdd (talk) 18:05, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi, of all the templates that we deleted the only one that is useful is template:Isa for two reasons: (a) we want to keep its talk page, an expert editor commented there (History2007). If we delete it we will loose the discussion for ever. Actually the editor behind these templates tagged template:Isa for deletion twice ([2] and [3]) and we reverted him, I referred to that discussion several times before you got involved. And yourself referred to it in template discussion, there is no guarantee that another guy doesn’t start creating similar templates in 2 months and then we will have to discuss everything again! (b) The second reason is that it is really useful, consists of nine relevant links, it can be used in 5 pages. By the way I changed template:Isa to the previous version, it is smaller when it is not collapsible. Regards.Kiatdd (talk) 16:49, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Hi Kiatdd! The discussion page can probably be preserved in userspace even if the template is deleted. As for the usefulness of the template as a navbox, the 'Jesus in Islam' section of the Jesus template could be expanded with the 9 links that currently are part of the Isa template. This would avoid the current substantial overlap between the two templates, which in some cases are both used on the same articles.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 05:28, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

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Dunns Creek State Park Creek image

I used the wrong permissions template when I uploaded this image. I have resolved that problem. Thanks. Mgrē@sŏn 20:32, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

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A barnstar for you!

	The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
	Thank you for adding those great infoboxes to the women's articles! They're great. :) SarahStierch (talk) 14:36, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank youuuu! I'll try to improve them further still! :-))--eh bien mon prince (talk) 21:11, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

User Evertson images/F11

Hello. You tagged a number of images uploaded by Everson (talk · contribs) with the F11/no perms CSD tag, e.g. this edit. The image does indeed have a copyright watermark. Did you check the Aardskip website contact page. The name on the contact form is rather familiar. Call me naive, but it seemed like a credible claim of permission to me yesterday and it still seems that way today. However, as they say, your mileage may very. Cheers, Angus McLellan (Talk) 00:15, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

If the uploader really is the creator of those photos, it's preferable for him to upload new versions without any watermarks and/or send a message to OTRS, just to be sure. After all, there are too many people who will swear they are the creators of this or that work, even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 15:09, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Places in South Africa by racial majority/plurality

I choose to place various articles about places in South Africa into categories such as "Places in South Africa with White majority populations" and "Places in South Africa with Coloured plurality populations" based on the latest available statistics that Statistics South Africa has about these places. For provinces, racial statistics from the 2011 Census are already available, but for smaller census-defined areas such as main places and sub places, I still have to categorize them based on the 2001 statistics since the 2011 Census official results have not yet been released. For statistical purposes, Statistics South Africa divides local municipalities into main places (which are approximately equivalent to cities and towns) and further divides main places into sub places (which are like neighbourhoods or boroughs). I have been inspired to create these categories because Wikipedia has categories for jurisdictions in the United States with African American majorities, Hispanic majorities, etc. I have not created any categories for places in South Africa with Black majorities because South Africa's overall population has a Black majority, so any particular places in South Africa with Black majorites would not be statistically significant to the country's demographics. I really hope you will reconsider deleting all these categories I have created and populated. Also, I have not looked up every South African province, main place, etc. yet so there are probably many more articles about South African places that still need to be added to these categories.

User:Djodjo666 (talk) 8:28, April 30, 2013 (UTC)

I don't think using categories is the best way to do that, it would probably be better to just improve articles like Distribution of white South Africans.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 12:44, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

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Hello! Your submission of Ferreirasdorp at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Helen (talk) 09:56, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

DYK

Hello! Your comments at Mike Cierpiot at the Did You Know nominations page have been reviewed. Please review the contribution(s) underneath your comment and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Wikiwayman (talk) 11:12, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

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DYK for Ferreirasdorp

Allen3 ^talk 16:58, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

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Names of Ottoman provinces

Hello again! Since you are one of the main creators of articles on Ottoman provinces, what is your opinion on the form of their name? Should we use the transliterated Turkish name or the common name? E.g. the "Sanjak of Selanik" or the "Sanjak of Salonica"? I think the general rule for historical entities is the former, as it corresponds to the "official" name as well, but there is a strong argument to be made for recognizability, i.e. "Sanjak of Gördes" is rather more obscure than "Sanjak of Corinth", and/or similarity, e.g. it is rather pointless to differentiate between "Rodos" and "Rhodes"or "Preveze" and "Preveza". For instance, when writing on Byzantine provinces, I generally follow a mixture of forms, both transliterated or anglicized, depending on popularity and ease of recognition, but I'd like to know what you think on this matter. Cheers, Constantine ✍ 20:46, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

I've been faced with this same dilemma a number of times, and I usually favour using the Anglicised form if the difference between the two is small, and the names have the same etymology (as in the case of Aleppo/Halep), but if the common, modern name has a different origin, as for Manastir/Bitola and Hüdavendigâr/Bursa, I would go with transliteration. So, in your examples I would have named the first article 'Sanjak of Salonica' but the second 'Sanjak of Gördes'. Hope this will help you decide! Cheers, eh bien mon prince (talk) 21:08, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Good, that's more or less what I had in mind, too. Thanks, and happy editing! Constantine ✍ 06:38, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

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June 2013

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• şunlardı: Dulkadir (1522), Erzurum (1533), Musul (1535), Bağdat (1535), Van (1548) ve Şehrizor (1554...}}</ref> Early in 17th century, the eyalet was threatened by Iran and a [[Abaza rebellion|

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• şunlardı: Dulkadir (1522), Erzurum (1533), Musul (1535), Bağdat (1535), Van (1548) ve Şehrizor (1554...}}</ref> Mosul then became one of three Ottoman [[Subdivisions of the Ottoman Empire|

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Strange changes of maps concerning two Ottoman vilajets

Hi, I am Jimgiby. I have detected two strange changes of maps concerning the Ottoman vilajets of Istambul and Edirne made by you. An old Ottoman map of Istambul vilajet with Arabic inscriptions added by you looks compleatly unclear. Eastern Rumelia was not part from the Edirne vilajet in 1900, but it was part from Bulgaria since 1885. Before that it was part from Eastern Rumelia. Thank you. Jingiby (talk) 17:29, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

About those two 'strange changes': the map doesn't seem to include Eastern Rumelia within the borders of the vilayet, I'm not sure why you think that (here is a map of the "fat" Adrianople Vilayet for comparison). The replacement map has a number of problems of its own, chief among them, it doesn't show any internal borders. It also includes the Khedivate of Egypt (established in 1867) within the empire for some reason. It includes the Vilayet of Bosnia and the sandzhak region, which had been taken over by Austria-Hungary by 1900. A more thorough analysis would surely reveal more mistakes, but I think these are more than enough to make it unsuitable for any use.

As for the second map, the strange "Arabic inscriptions" are actually Ottoman Turkish script, that's because that is an early 20th century map from an Ottoman atlas, which if anything should make it more reliable. It shouldn't be unclear for anyone familiar with the location of modern Istanbul, and a caption was added to make its meaning more clear. The replacement map: it's a derivation of the first, so it shares all of its inaccuracies. On top of that, it grossly overstates the extent of the Istanbul Vilayet, and it's completely missing a whole vilayet (Bitlis). As you might have noticed from the description page, I uploaded that map 2 years ago, so believe me when I say it's a shoddy piece of work! :P

I hope I clarified all your doubts, and since the newer maps are based on reliable sources, which is not something that can be said about the old ones, they will be preferred to those in any case. If you think there is something wrong with these new maps, the best thing you could do is find another reliable source (like a history book or an atlas) that shows the borders of the vilayets in a given date, and use it as a basis for a new location map.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 23:15, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Women in Turkey> head coverings

True, that- thanks for the correction: the article clearly indicates what it means by "turban"; perhaps it would be best to distinguish the garment with a different nomination entirely, as this is most definitely not what 'turban' connotes in English.Mavigogun (talk) 06:47, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

That's right, but I don't know what it would be called in English, either. The Turkish Wikipedia links it just to headscarf, but from that survey they're two different things.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 06:51, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

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Foreign language Wikipedias

Hi Underlying -- I noticed that you've PRODded a number of articles about foreign language Wikipedias. Do you intend to PROD all of them? I suspect that they mostly lack reliable sources, but I also think that this is likely to be controversial. I suggest removing the PRODs and creating a bulk AfD for the lot of them. Pburka (talk) 02:52, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

I PRODded just five so far, and I chose this method because the one AfD I attempted hasn't drawn much interest. There are a number of local version that are surely notable, like Chinese Wikipedia for one. But many aren't, like Waray-Waray Wikipedia, and should be deleted and redirected to List of Wikipedias. Creating a bulk nomination would make it impossible for other editors to judge the notability of each version separately.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 03:00, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Hello! There is a DR/N request you may have interest in.

This message is being sent to let you know of a discussion at the Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult for editors. You are not required to participate, but you are both invited and encouraged to help find a resolution. The thread is "Tanzania". Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you! EarwigBot ^{operator / talk} 21:46, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

WP:DRN Case

Hi, Underlying Ik! I am EnglishEfternamn. I am writing just to let you know that I am assessing the claim made at WP:DRN about the Tanzania article with which you are involved. Regards. EnglishEfternamn_*t/c* 00:52, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Hey, just wanted to say, thanks for being a good sport at DRN. Hopefully now we can improve the Tanzania article without delay. Btw I'm a member of WikiProject South Africa too! =)EnglishEfternamn_*t/c* 19:06, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

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Removal of content in Turkey

Please do not remove content or templates from pages on Wikipedia, as you did to Turkey, without giving a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Your content removal does not appear constructive and has been reverted. Please make use of the sandbox if you'd like to experiment with test edits. Thank you. "that part of the lede serves only to explain how the Turks arrived in anatolia, not to become a duplicate of the history section" is not a valid reason to delete this.[4] (Ancient Anatolians are relevant to modern Turks) Also, "was a near-duplicate of the foreign relations section" is not a valid reason to delete this [5] (you should have re-written it if its too close to that section).Cavann (talk) 18:46, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Those two bloated paragraphs now account for half the size of the lede, it should be obvious that it is not an improvement in any way. And if you want to discuss things with me in the future, I would prefer it if you didn't just lazily use templates meant to warn new users.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 03:13, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Of course history is gonna account for a large portion of the lead. Look at featured country articles such as Germany (3 paragraphs out of 5 for history) and Japan (history constituting roughly half). Cavann (talk) 20:59, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Interesting comparison. The last time they were checked for FA status, the portion about history in the lede was 145 words for Germany, 69 words for Japan (!). The current word count in Turkey is 185 words. Does it mean that I have your support for slimming it down by at least 40 words?--eh bien mon prince (talk) 05:30, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

I trimmed it by 41 words. Do not delete more info.Cavann (talk) 19:34, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

The word count was for the paragraph about history, which you barely touched in your last edit, not for the whole lede. Besides, there is no magic limit, 145 is just the upper bound.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 19:41, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

Well, Turkey has a longer history than Germany as Germany's ancient history is rather insignificant. I think the lead is fine now. If you get the article to GA review, we'll see what others say. Cavann (talk) 20:45, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

HIV/AIDS

Greetings Underlying lk! I noticed you recently had an issue over on the Tanzania wikipage with AfricaTanz, which you seem to have successfully resolved. As it happens, there's a similar problem with the same editor over on the HIV/AIDS in Africa page. The issue over there also has to do with figures and the user's intransigence towards them. For some reason, he keeps removing the changes in the continent's HIV/AIDS prevalence and death rates. He has also insisted on using a local source for Tanzania's HIV/AIDS prevalence rate, although every other African country uses UNAIDS' official figures. This is no trivial matter since the Tanzanian source indicates an infection rate that's around 0.7 percentage points lower than the official figure that UNAIDS cites for Tanzania. I've tried for weeks now explaining to the user why this is inappropriate. However, he's now basically avoiding my discussion page comments and knee-jerk reverting. Would you mind in your spare time having a stab at it? Kinds regards - Soupforone (talk) 21:52, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Without knowing much about this subject, I think that the figures of a reputable supranational organisation like UNAIDS should be preferred to local sources, which might be biased or unreliable. The previous dispute was solved by the good guys at WP:DRN, perhaps you could try that.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 08:07, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, that was my impression as well. Thanks - Soupforone (talk) 20:35, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

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Revert this edit as edit removed massive amount of sourced content--Ellenyams (talk) 15:59, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

I think you got the wrong guy.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 16:05, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

Iran

Hi. About this edit, you removed content because the reference is not valid? Normally we should search for the accuracy or inaccuracy of the event before removing content. As you see in this article, that fact seems to be correct.Farhikht (talk) 20:10, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

I removed it because the whole reference was "Centre for Documents of The Imposed War, Tehran. ". Even if someone were to travel to this centre, it would be impossible to verify without more details, and that has been noted since October 2010. If you can find a proper reference, by all means add it back.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 20:15, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

I pointed you out to an article which proves that the fact was correct. In this kind of situation you should tag the statement and request a reliable source instead of removing the content.Farhikht (talk) 20:23, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Again, it was tagged already since October 2010. It could (and should) have been removed, until a valid source is found. You can't use a wikipedia article as a reference for another wikipedia article.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 20:27, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

You can find many references on that article. Even those who tagged the article claimed that what is probably wrong is the number of victims not the whole sentence. This is not a biography of a living person. Please follow policy.Farhikht (talk) 20:44, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

"Any material lacking a reliable source directly supporting it may be removed" (WP:PROVEIT). Instead of coming here to lecture me about irrelevant policies you can either find a valid source, or accept its removal. I have no obligation to do that for you, and given your tone, I'm not inclined to do so either.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 21:06, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Summarisation/removal

Please see Talk:Zimbabwe. Am far from convinced the approach you are taking (on many pages I see from the above) is the best way. Babakathy (talk) 14:28, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Removal of content in Bolivia

Please, see this talk page.--Metroxed (talk) 10:33, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Generally on summarisation and removal

Underlying lk, I do appreciate

1. You are putting a lot of work into tidying and improving country articles.
2. You are very willing to discuss issues
3. You are very willing to suggest solutions [6] [7]

So although I'm commenting here on your editing approach, please don't take it as a personal attack but a suggestion on how as a community this type of work can be done better.

I am sure that as you can see from the comments you get back on this page, the summarisation is controversial, even if the material that is removed is not inflammatory in itself. As a result, I would encourage discussion first. One of the main problems is material that gets removed. Some of the material in unencylopedic, so it's gone, good. But summarisation, by its nature, removes valid, sourced material also. Whilst you have made the point that material removed can be put into other articles [8], it is very important that actually gets done. If material is simply removed and no-one notices/comments/discusses, then it's gone - very few people will dig back through history to find it again.

So as a general point, I would suggest that it is helpful (if not policy) that a major edit that removes material for the purpose of summarisation should be discussed first. This flags the issue up and makes sure other editors get involved and participate in work and makes it more likely material that is removed is transferred to the right place and not lost. Babakathy (talk) 06:31, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

I understand your concerns and I agree that a previous discussion is in some cases advisable. Moving sourced material to separate articles is generally a good idea, but in many instances the quality of the summarised content is low, even if they include many sources. Take the Immigration section of the Chile article, it included plenty of sources (about 30), but many were contested as unreliable by other users, and others were simply redundant (eg, six sources to prove a single fact about Chilean-Palestinians). I rarely make drastic changes to well-written sections, so often the main articles (Immigration to Chile in this example) would not benefit from the addition of this content, because it is poorly written or poorly sourced (if at all).

About the Zimbabwe article, looking back and comparing the revisions I had removed the following references from the post-1980 history sections:

Nyarota, Geoffrey (29 January 2010). "MDC has joined conspiracy of silence". The Zimbabwe Times. Retrieved 28 March 2010.
"Zimbabwe Democracy and Economic Recovery Act of 2001". 2001.
Zimbabwe: Housing policy built on foundation of failures and lies, Amnesty International, 9 August 2006.
"Crisis profile: Zimbabwe's humanitarian situation". Alertnet.org. 26 July 2005. Retrieved 6 June 2012.
"Zimbabwe: health profile". The World Health Organization. 17 August 2010. Retrieved 15 April 2011.
"Country Operational Plan: Zimbabwe". The U.S. President's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief. 28 September 2009. Retrieved 30 May 2010.
"Diamond Industry Calls for Clampdown on Zimbabwe Smuggling". Rapaport. 12 October 2008. Retrieved 12 December 2008.
Farira, David (4 December 2008). "Eerie silence at Zimbabwe mine". BBC News. Retrieved 6 June 2012.
"Statement of the IMF's Mission to Zimbabwe". IMF. 2010.
"Mugabe wants sanctions removed". UPI.com. 18 December 2010. Retrieved 21 August 2011.
Kristof, Nicholas D. (7 April 2010). "Postcard From Zimbabwe". New York Times (Hwange).
First Commercial Partnership Agreement between EU and 4 african countries, Madapolitics, 15 mai 2012
Cris Chinaka, "Mugabe deputy John Nkomo dies after cancer battle", Reuters, 17 January 2013.

I believe their removal (or the removal of the material they supported) was justified, but if you feel this is not the case, let me know and I will add them back.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 15:45, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

I suggest at least putting back the following, which are major sources:

"Zimbabwe Democracy and Economic Recovery Act of 2001". 2001.
Zimbabwe: Housing policy built on foundation of failures and lies, Amnesty International, 9 August 2006.
"Zimbabwe: health profile". The World Health Organization. 17 August 2010. Retrieved 15 April 2011.
"Statement of the IMF's Mission to Zimbabwe". IMF. 2010.
"Mugabe wants sanctions removed". UPI.com. 18 December 2010. Retrieved 21 August 2011.
Cris Chinaka, "Mugabe deputy John Nkomo dies after cancer battle", Reuters, 17 January 2013.

I honestly think you do a lot of good (who am I to judge anyway!) but, given the feedback you're receiving from all over on this page, I do think you need to rethink your approach. Babakathy (talk) 06:23, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Thank you Babakathy. The latest disputes you can see below are unrelated to summarisation though. One is about unsourced material about the Colombian economy (which I decided to drop for my peace of mind) and the other is about the inclusion of the French name of the Dominican Republic. Actually my latest drastic restructuring (to the Haiti, Cuba, Chile and Belize articles) didn't draw any complaints so far. Go figure.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 06:32, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Are you putting back the sources I suggested above? Babakathy (talk) 16:57, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

Yes, sorry for the delay. I will add them back momentarily.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 09:15, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

"Zimbabwe Democracy and Economic Recovery Act of 2001" cannot be added back because it's actually a link to a wikipedia page.

Not sure if this Zimbabwe: health profile should be added back, there are already 2 other life expectancies listed in other parts of the article, and it doesn't verify the claim that the life expectancy was 39 years in 2010.

Statement of the IMF's Mission to Zimbabwe, the exact same claim ("completing its second year of buoyant economic growth") is already in the economy section.

Mugabe wants sanctions removed added back, but without the lengthy Mugabe quote.

Mugabe deputy John Nkomo dies after cancer battle Readded, though I wouldn't include something like this in a brief history of a country.

I hope this helps, but let me know if you agree/disagree with the insertions. Cheers, eh bien mon prince (talk) 09:44, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the effort, great. Babakathy (talk) 11:10, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

CIA World Factbook

is a US government source, and thus may be copy/pasted at will (with an attribution note) [9]. Materialscientist (talk) 11:17, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

Even if there are no copyright issues, I think copy-pasting tables and figures is rarely a desirable way to present information. That article needs some work, especially the demographics section. I'll look into it and try to improve it.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 18:25, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

Colombia

Do you understand that erases everything he says Colombia's article. Perhaps you envy. If you are South African does not have to change the article of Colombia for who knows nothing of that country. I invite you to enter this page and see how is Colombia [10].--Roboting (talk) 21:24, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

Don't come here to tell me which articles I should or should not edit based on assumptions about my nationality. Oh, and the Spanish Wikipedia article on Colombia is a mess, you shouldn't be proud of yourself if you had a hand in that.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 21:38, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

The Spanish Wikipedia article is not a disaster, you do not know anything about Colombia.--Roboting (talk) 21:41, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

That's quite enough, if you have some constructive criticism about this wikipedia I'm willing to listen, otherwise get off my talk page.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 21:43, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

I think Theryx7've Already been commissioned. Bye--Roboting (talk) 21:52, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

I don't even know what that means. Anyway, for your information, Peru is a featured article, meaning it is considered one of the best articles on the English Wikipedia. Colombia is not, because it contains too many informations in a poorly organised format. If you compare the two, you might learn that the common understanding of a well-written country-level article here is considerably different from yours.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 21:58, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

Article of Peru are very short, even so is a featured article. Colombia's article in English is very regular. Maybe when the article in Spanish (this nomination and review to be highlighted), it highlighted that information can be translated to English. I think you're right in saying that the article in Spanish is a bit disorganized, I deleted several images [11]. Due the language in Colombia is Spanish. The article in English are very regular and distort reality. Maybe later someone dares to translate from Spanish.--Roboting (talk) 22:29, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

You do not need to remove important information

Hi, I reverted some of the changes you made to the Colombia article. Maybe next time instead of just wantonly deleting unsourced disputable information, you can take the time to do some research and change the information and add appropriate resources, or if you are not feeling up to it, you can also use the Template:Citation needed or Template:According to whom to show the problems in the statement. Be bold, not reckless. --Theryx7 (talk) 03:31, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

I'm assuming you are the IP who reverted just minutes ago. You are reintroducing unsourced material again and again, in violation of policy WP:V that clearly says that ANY unsourced material can be removed. If you think the material is important enough to require reinsertion, find the sources yourself. I don't have an obligation to clean after you.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 03:43, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Information isn't promo, this is the story of the Colombian economy, and this is not my fault that the Colombian economy begins to develop properly. Please allow that this information is available in the article about Colombia.

Note: This IP is not mine, I always use my account, but I have friends that if they use their IP and many times have helped me to improve this article. --Theryx7 (talk) 03:54, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

I told you many times already, you can add back the material when there are sources for it. I don't have any POV about your country. The IP stopped reverting after I warned him of the 3 revert rule, and that was 20 minutes before your revert. If necessary, I will take the issue to WP:3RR and let them decide if they were your friends or not.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 04:00, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Okay, but that IP is not mine, I often watch the page about Colombia and sometimes I like to watch wikipedia at this time because I have worked on this article for months. I always use my wikipedia account to edit any article on Wikipedia. I am not involved in this edit war, simply the information provided by the IP seems appropriate. You can check that sometimes other IP edit this article. --Theryx7 (talk) 04:19, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

It's strange that two separate sets of eyes wouldn't notice that the line about the stockmarket was repeated twice in the version you were reverting to, or that this source says nothing about the revaluation of the peso.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 04:23, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

I did not read this reference, but I know that the IP does not lie because there is a revaluation of the Colombian peso. The economy of Colombia is one of the fastest growing in Latin America, many Colombians have been lifted out of poverty, and many people in Colombia are accumulating lots of money. Now I already read this reference but I assure you that the Colombian peso has a revaluation.

Note: The reference is reliable since it is the official website of the Ministry of Commerce of the Colombian Government. The information that you deleted is completely correct. Trust me. --Theryx7 (talk) 04:48, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

If things are as you say, finding a source to prove those supposedly self-evident facts will be no trouble at all.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 04:54, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

http://avilacmg.wordpress.com/2010/08/03/dinero-the-colombian-peso-is-the-currency-with-the-biggest-revaluation-in-the-world/ - The information is based on the prestigious magazine of economics known as Dinero. Although this information is applicable for the following years of prosperous growth of the Colombian economy.

Note: I want to thank for your help at the article about Colombia, but I want you to trust me when I edit something in this article. When you need sources or important information about Colombia you can write on my talk page and I will help you. --Theryx7 (talk) 06:57, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

July 2013

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bring it to the talk page...you wrote nothing on there about this

hello. What you're saying in your edit comments are not making much sense, to be frank.

You never wrote anything in the talk page for me to answer. So how can you say "answer you in talk"...if you have yet to say a word there regarding this? So I'm not sure what you're saying or talking about. I already wrote tons on Talk about this. You wrote zero. So as I said, ADDRESS IT IN TALK...before removing all the time. Thank you. Gabby Merger (talk) 06:05, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

This is the talk message you left unanswered. And please mind your manners, you're becoming really obnoxious.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 06:21, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

my mistake...I didn't realize you were the same person as Underlying lk. I saw what you wrote. And that the article is not specifically about the "history" of DR. But the problem with that argument is that most readers (casual and otherwise), if they wanted to look up stuff on DR (past and present, meaning current stuff as well as its history) would generally go to the main Dominican Republic article first...and check for historical things and points there. Not sure why this is such a big deal. I'm pro-Spain...but it's a forgotten fact (even by WP users and editors) that FRANCE ALSO reigned and participated in DR's very early formation also. Not only Spain...though Spain mainly. Regards. Gabby Merger (talk) 08:01, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

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Photos of Luanda

Hi Underlying I see you have cropped some photos on the Botswana page and done some work on the Angola page. Which means you show some interest in both the photo aspect of the WP and Angola. I find the photo of Luanda Bay extremely poor - small and lifeless. There are hundreds of better photos of Luanda in the archives such as [[12]]. I have never uploaded any photos, but I am sure you would have no difficulty with it. I also have hundreds of great photos of Luanda etc., but find the process of uploading them to the Wikimedia cumbersome - if there is a way, I could pass them on to you. Best regards, Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia (talk) 13:50, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Hi Rui! I did notice that the Angola article is short of material, though the main concern in my opinion is the text, as the article is 5991 words long and is short on citations. About the images, I think they should be replaced to match the section they're in. The picture with the bay of Luanda, other than not being very impressive, is also ill-suited to illustrate a section about transport, ideally I would go for something like a port or airport or a railway station, but I couldn't find any good images among the files on Commons. About uploading photos, if you find the Commons Wizard cumbersome you could upload them to Flickr or Panoramio or some other photo hosting site, so I can import them in turn. The only other option I can think of is emailing them, but that would probably prove even more cumbersome. In any case, it's an interesting offer as we don't have many good photos of Angola, so let me know how I can help. Cheers, eh bien mon prince (talk) 03:58, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

Hi Underlying. Much simpler than I thought. I uploaded a few pics as a trial. Check them out here http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Rui_Gabriel_Correia. Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia (talk) 10:20, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

Already used the first one at Angolan cuisine. Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia (talk) 10:27, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

These are good photos, I hope you'll decide to upload more! If you want to upload many at the same time, you can use the Commonist tool, it makes it much faster.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 19:40, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

you never responded to my last comment

no decision was actually made. The discussion was simply closed arbitrarily, with my last comment never responded to you by you. Just because you and that other editor (not many people if you notice) want to dogmatically say "French pronunciation should not be mentioned", and just because you want to water down the French involvement in DR's formation, etc, does not mean the discussion was completely over.

You never answered my last thing...which was:

^^^^^^Just to address the point you made above about the years of French rule being "long after" DR's formation. The formation and development is not just referring to the very very start and infancy and fledglingness of DR. It took TIME for DR to fully develop. You're gonna say that in the 1700's DR was 100% formed and settled as a nation, in complete form? I guess though it's a matter of interpretation. But it's not like French ruled over DR from 1899 to 1922 or something. (For example). That would be different. But it was much earlier than that. (Also, it's not like DR has been around for 2000 years or something...or even 1000.) But French involvement was somewhat early on. During arguably DR's overall formation. Otherwise why would the article have the "French rule" thing SO EARLY in the article?^^^^^

You never answered that. So I'll ask it again.... French involvement was somewhat early on. During arguably DR's overall formation. Otherwise why would the article have the "French rule" thing SO EARLY in the article? Gabby Merger (talk) 23:40, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Out of four people who gave their opinion on the matter, you're the only one who is in favour of keeping the French name. A consensus was reached, answering any and all of your poorly punctuated rants is not an obligation. If you keep on reverting and un-closing DRN discussions, you will be blocked.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 01:40, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

There was no final decision made, just an arbitrary closing of the discussion...with my last comment un-answered. Not cool. Hardly anyone even participated, so don't give me that. And it was not really four, but three. (That last person didn't really address or give much of an opinion either way.) Report what you want... It doesn't matter. Save your threats. The discussion was never completely finished, no matter what TransporterMan wrongly prematurely did or said. Finish up what we were talking about, and try addressing my last point and last question, instead of dodging it. Thanks. Gabby Merger (talk) 03:13, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

The discussion is over, the DRN was closed, archived, and four to one is a sufficient margin to determine that your edits have no support whatsoever beyond your own. A week of discussion was enough, there is nothing to add to that.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 03:22, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

This is my talk page, not a place to write your essays, Gabby. Do you have anything to say to me? If not, you can just write it all in your sandbox instead. Every time you rewrite your latest post I receive another notification, and it's becoming really annoying.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 03:36, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

I understand this is your talk page, but there's no guarantee you'd even see these points necessarily on the article talk page. Anyway...you make the argument in the dispute page. You brought that up. (Somehow thinking French involvement and rulership were so "late"...) I address it. Pointed out that the article itself brings up French involvement EARLY in the article, which kinda goes against your notion that French involvement was so late and trivial. You can't deal with the response, so you evade it about 20 times now, disrespect, get rude, get immature about what's on your page, and just EXPUNGE the thing on your talk page, that exposes the point. Whatever... ciao Gabby Merger (talk) 04:10, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

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Portuguese Angolans

Hi Underlying. We spoke recently - see above "Photos of Lunda". As I pointed out before, although I've been 'here' for some time, I have never really learnt how to use all the tools. I can reevert recent (last) edits, but anything else, I have to change manually. I see you have been at Portuguese Angolans, in fact the most recent edit was yours. In June some IP added the follwing "As black revolutionaries murdered, raped, and pillaged throughout the Empire, most of Portuguese civilians, only managed take with them their lives, a single suitcase and money as their remaining property, goods, and records of centuries were lost.", over and above other nonsense that he added in previous edits. Other than a manual job, is there any way of restoring the article? If not, I'll see about finding the time to do so. I am posting this on the Talk Page too. Regards, Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia (talk) 15:18, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

Hi Rui Gabriel! Unfortunately I'm not aware of any way you can revert if there are intermediate conflicting revisions. As far as I know, it has to be done manually.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 13:06, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

Your e-mail

I would like to message you via e-mail (not the conversation on my talk, per se; please keep the continuity of that), but you have not specified a valid e-mail address. GotR ^Talk 17:41, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

Hi GotR, unfortunately I made a conscious decision from when I signed up to separate my Wiki account from my other internet activities, e-mail included, as I prefer to remain pseudonymous here.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 22:08, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

Are you aware of the fact some users here (even admins) employ secondhand e-mail accounts, the purpose of which is to remain "anonymous" here? And _I am not trying to compel you to act in a certain way._ GotR ^Talk 23:14, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

I know that. I only wanted to explain why I don't have an email address linked to this account. Cheers, eh bien mon prince (talk) 23:31, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

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Ethnic groups in South Africa

Please see WPSA discussion. HelenOnline 07:42, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

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Speedy deletion nomination of Template:Metadata South Africa subplaces

A tag has been placed on Template:Metadata South Africa subplaces requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section T3 of the criteria for speedy deletion because it is a deprecated or orphaned template. After seven days, if it is still unused and the speedy deletion tag has not been removed, the template will be deleted.

If the template is intended to be substituted, please feel free to remove the speedy deletion tag and please consider putting a note on the template's page indicating that it must be substituted so as to avoid any future mistakes (<noinclude>{{substituted}}</noinclude>).

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page's talk page, where you can explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, you can place a request here. eh bien mon prince (talk) 13:21, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Special Barnstar
	Thank you for your efforts updating SA place articles with 2011 census results! HelenOnline 16:39, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Thank you!! By now there are 1376 articles using the new data, just a few hundreds left until it's finished!--eh bien mon prince (talk) 16:44, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Welkom en Bloemfontein populasie info

Welkom en Bloemfontein populasie info

Haai ik ....ons is in kontak met die munisipaliteit van Matjhabeng (Info@Matjhabeng.co.za) i v m die inligting wat jy deugegee het op wiki se Welkom (Matjahabeng) inligting.Die inligting wat jy deurgee is verkeerd en jy't nie die voorstede van Riebeeckstad en Thabong in gewerk nie asook ander.Plus die grense is in 2000 verander en die stad se inligting ( met populasies) het ook verander. Volgens die info wat hulle vir ons gestuur het is die inligting wat jy van die sensus 2011 deurggee selektief en moet verander word . Indien jy die info plaas soos wat jy tans doen sal n stad soos Bloemfontein se populasie ook moet verander aangesien die populasie van 256185 Rodenbeck, Langenhoven Park en Grasslands se populasie verteenwoordig en nie net die stad self s'n nie.Dit sal beteken dat +- 92535 van die totale populasie ( van bloem) verwyder moet word indien dit selektief hanteer word. Ek kan vir jou meer info deur gee indien jy jou epos adres verskaf . Kyk ook na die 2011 weergawe van : http://populationlabs.com/South_Africa_Population.asp . Weereens...kyk dat die voorstede van Riebeecstad en Thabong bygewerk is, anders is die gegewe inligting foutief.

The new info received is that the city's population from census 2011 , population 191341 - This includes Welkom's biggest suburb, Riebeeckstad and the Township Thabong. The cencus code is selective. Please read on the wiki page of Welkom the following :Demographics & History and City Design and notice that two areas are included. One can not in 2013 still segregate Thabong as not being part of the city. South Africa is now a democracy. Also note that Riebeecstad and Thabong do not have their own municipalities but is in the borders of the city of Welkom — Preceding unsigned comment added by HESM29 (talk • contribs) 13:36, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

--HESM29 (talk) 10:10, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Hi HESM29. I understand your concern, and this issue has been noted before, but now that there are new figures available from the latest census those should be used as a basis for calculating the population of the whole agglomeration, rather than the figures from the 2001 census. The new census codes are 467009 for Welkom, 467006 for Riebeeckstad and 467007 for Thabong.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 17:54, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Hey guys, I've updated the infobox and the demographics section of the article to include the figures for Thabong, Riebeekstad and Hani Park. - htonl (talk) 14:11, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing it.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 14:41, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

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