User talk:Tol/Archives/2022/10

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TolBot

Hi. I hope you are doing well. TolBot recently delivered message to a talkpage with categories category:Wikipedians who opt out of message delivery, and category:Wikipedians who opt out of template messages. Would you kindly update it so that it will skip such talkpages? Or is there any reason why it doesn't skip such pages? —usernamekiran (talk) 23:09, 29 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, @Usernamekiran, and I hope you're doing well too! I presume you're referring to a Task 9 edit (Wikipedia:Administrators without tools notification) — users receive these notifications because they opted in at Wikipedia:Administrators without tools/Endorsers, and can opt out again by removing their name from the list. (So, yes; there's a reason why it ignores these categories!) Tol (talk | contribs) @ 02:35, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. Thanks for the prompt reply. Yes, I was referring to task 9. You are correct about the opting too. But there is a different scenario as well. Sometimes, an editor stops editing all of sudden (retirement, loss of password, and similar issues including death). Under such scenarios, there is Yapperbot's task 4 (example message), but I am not sure about the width of the lists from which inactive members are removed. Then there is {{not around}} template which is added to the talkpages of inactive users, I do it sometimes. The template adds the two aforementioned categories. Without yapperbot, and "not around", it would be an infinite cycle of automated messages being delivered, and being archived by archive-bots. That was my concern. But given the small number of subscribers at Endorser's list, I think thats not a big issue. Thanks again. See you around :-) —usernamekiran (talk) 15:15, 1 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Usernamekiran: You're welcome! That makes sense. If this becomes a problem, I could set it up to prune inactive users. Thanks! Tol (talk | contribs) @ 17:40, 1 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Addiction

How to quit alcohol — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ericamalia (talk • contribs) 19:46, 11 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, @Ericamalia, and welcome to Wikipedia! Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a website for asking self-help or medical questions. If you wish to read or edit an article on this topic, perhaps Alcoholism may be relevant. If you have any further questions, please let me know! Tol (talk | contribs) @ 22:18, 11 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Up for another TolBot page moving task?

See WT:WikiProject College Basketball#Over-capitalization where we're discussing a list of about 3300 articles with title fixes needed. If you're still up for such work. Dicklyon (talk) 00:00, 20 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Dicklyon, I most certainly am! I can file a BRFA over the weekend; would this work? Tol (talk | contribs) @ 00:10, 20 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, thanks. No rush, and I'll keep an eye on the discussion to see if anyone wants to haggle more along the way. So far not. Dicklyon (talk) 01:51, 20 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Let me know if you'd like me to format the list into one that includes the targets to move to (downcasing "Men's" or "Women's" through "Tournament" in all cases). Dicklyon (talk) 01:51, 20 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Give the discussion time to settle. If it doesn't, we might need a big multi-RM discussion to establish consensus of the strength that the bot approvers will want to see. Dicklyon (talk) 23:14, 20 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Dicklyon: Alright; will do. Tol (talk | contribs) @ 00:03, 21 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I got the RM going at Talk:ACC Men's Basketball Tournament#Requested move 23 August 2022. Look like it will likely get to a clear consensus. Dicklyon (talk) 21:20, 25 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds good, @Dicklyon! Ping me when it closes and I'll file. Tol (talk | contribs) @ 21:25, 25 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Tol: – That RM closed with a clear consensus to move, so I think we should go ahead. I can take another pass at making the list, but I think the one I made is pretty good, except that a few may have been moved already. Dicklyon (talk) 06:20, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Dicklyon: Got it; filing. Tol (talk | contribs) @ 22:05, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Filed. Tol (talk | contribs) @ 00:52, 1 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Dicklyon: It's been approved; I'm now preparing the list and will likely run the bot within the next 48 hours. Tol (talk | contribs) @ 17:36, 5 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Noting request for page mover rights (permalink) to bypass the title blacklist. Tol (talk | contribs) @ 20:50, 5 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Rights granted; continuing bot run. Tol (talk | contribs) @ 21:30, 5 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Tol (talk | contribs) @ 23:00, 5 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the quick action! If convenient, also add these that were missing from my original list (note that "Finals" would also be downcased, but not "Final Four", I think):

If not convenient, I can do by hand. And I'll check the other sports... There will also be some with "Men's Basketball" but not "Tournament", which we'll worry about later. Dicklyon (talk) 01:53, 6 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, a few for soccer and ice hockey, too:

I think I'd downcase most valuable player and most outstanding player, too (they're about 2/3 capped in books, not consistently). Dicklyon (talk) 02:04, 6 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm realizing now that there are also a bunch of redirects that should be moved, or reproduced in the lowercased version, so that when I update case in links they won't break. I'll see if I can get a list from quarry. And some categories will need to be moved, too; but not a lot; for another day. Dicklyon (talk) 05:03, 6 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Dicklyon: I would generally prefer not to run TolBot Task 13 without fairly strong consensus somewhere (I would like to err on the side of caution); since these weren't included in the RM or the WikiProject College Basketball discussion (and weren't included in the BRFA), I would prefer if you could open another RM or another WikiProject discussion for these before I run the bot. Tol (talk | contribs) @ 18:10, 7 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Understood. Thanks again. Dicklyon (talk) 19:13, 7 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Template moves needed

Another batch I forgot are the templates; see User:Dicklyon/Templates to move. You think I should do another RM discussion, or is this covered? It seems the Categories were OK by consistency, at WP:CFD/S. Dicklyon (talk) 03:55, 20 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Dicklyon, I would prefer to avoid making any additional bot moves without explicit consensus (that is, limiting to pages in the list linked to in the RM). I think another mass RM would be appropriate for these templates, referencing the original RM to show existing consensus, mainly just to make sure nobody objects. Tol (talk | contribs) @ 02:47, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I'll get to that eventually... I just discovered another tranche needing to be moved, so I can pool them (e.g. those in Category:NCAA Division I Men's Basketball Championship Games). Dicklyon (talk) 02:49, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Dicklyon: Sounds good; thanks! Tol (talk | contribs) @ 02:53, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The RM discussion closed as "Moved" at Talk:2022 NCAA Division I men's basketball championship game, which included the intention to move the list of templates and other related articles (one editor had reservations, but didn't follow up with a case for caps). So that should be the clear consensus we need. I'll work on a final list... Dicklyon (talk) 04:51, 1 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds good, @Dicklyon! Thanks for handling the RM/list-building side of this. Tol (talk | contribs) @ 17:35, 1 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I updated the lists at User:Dicklyon/Templates to move. It now lists 60 articles with "Basketball Championship Game" and 95 templates with various tournament capitalizations, exactly as discussed at the RM. There's also a list of where new redirects might be useful. Dicklyon (talk) 23:21, 1 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, @Dicklyon! I've filed a BRFA for TolBot 13D, which requests extension of the Task 13 mass-move script to RMs under certain conditions (so hopefully I don't have to keep going back to BRFA). Tol (talk | contribs) @ 20:14, 3 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Good idea. I made 3 minor corrections to the targets at User:Dicklyon/Templates to move. Dicklyon (talk) 22:48, 3 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

And I removed one that seems to be an actual proper name. Dicklyon (talk) 02:08, 4 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Alright; the BRFA was approved. I'll run the bot when I get a chance (likely tomorrow). Tol (talk | contribs) @ 02:55, 7 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

After that, another batch may be along soon, from this RM: Talk:Arthur Joseph Lewis, Jr.#Requested move 6 October 2022. Many thanks! Dicklyon (talk) 04:48, 8 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds great, @Dicklyon; just ping me when it's closed and I'll run it! Tol (talk | contribs) @ 04:51, 8 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Done the second round of sports tournament pages, @Dicklyon. Tol (talk | contribs) @ 06:38, 8 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. That all looks perfect. Dicklyon (talk) 17:39, 11 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No problem; thank you! Tol (talk | contribs) @ 18:48, 11 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The Jr batch is now closed and ready for moving. Dicklyon (talk) 15:41, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Running now, @Dicklyon. Tol (talk | contribs) @ 19:58, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Done all except Allen M. Burdett Jr. and Allen Smith Jr., which had already been unilaterally moved for the same reason. Tol (talk | contribs) @ 20:10, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the quick action. I went through those and did cleanup edits just now. So all done for now. I'm going to try to take it easy for a while. Dicklyon (talk) 04:48, 14 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Alright; no problem! Tol (talk | contribs) @ 15:34, 14 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Redirects needed

I've moved a bunch of these, and others I've found, by hand. Not a problem. But now I'm finding things like 1945 NAIA Division I Men's Basketball Tournament, redirects to versions without "Men's" and/or without "Division I" and such; when I update links in articles, they become red links, since we didn't move the redirects, nor create new redirects (as I should have remembered as it happened in tennis, too). At this point, if I query for all the redirects with "Men's Basketball Tournament" I'll get these but also all those from the moves we just did via TolBot. Do you know a good process for sorting that out to see how many of these need attention? If I make a list can you filter it, perhaps using using part of your bot's programs, down to how many need actual attention? Then we could ask for permission to make the needed redirects or moves. Dicklyon (talk) 00:08, 11 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Dicklyon, I could filter a list to remove redirects that are just capitalisation changes (e.g. "XYZ Men's Basketball Tournament" to "XYZ men's basketball tournament"); would that work? I could also filter to redirects without an existing lowercase page (and get status on whether it's a redirect, whether it redirects to the same page, etc.). (I assume the goal would be to have a list of new lowercase redirects which should be created.) Tol (talk | contribs) @ 03:49, 11 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that would be the goal. I can do a quarry query for redirects with "Men's Basketball Tournament" and such, if you can do the filtering. Perhaps filter just to ones that don't have a corresponding lowercase version that corresponds to incoming red links, if that's feasible. I'm about to head out on a trip, so not this morning. Dicklyon (talk) 13:25, 11 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

So ones with no lowercase version, with redlinks pointing to the lowercase version? Or with links pointing to the non-lowercase redirect? Tol (talk | contribs) @ 15:51, 11 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, lowercase versions with red links pointing at them, due to my too-widespread case-fix edits. Here is an example of one such edit of mine being reverted instead of corrected; new redirects would bulk-fix them. Dicklyon (talk) 21:37, 12 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

So I made a list of over-capped redirects at User:Dicklyon/Basketball redirects. The vast majority of these redirect to downcased versions of the same title, mostly left from the moves that TolBot did, and need to be filtered out. What's left, redirects to other than the downcased version of the same, probably need to have new downcased redirects to the same target created (some will already exist, as I've done some by hand). If there are no actual redlinks to these missing downcased redirects, I'd create them anyway, as they're more useful than the currently listed over-capped ones. If you an filter the list down, it might be small enough for me to finish up "by hand". Dicklyon (talk) 21:48, 12 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Dicklyon, thanks! I'll take a look and try to filter these down over the weekend. Tol (talk | contribs) @ 02:10, 13 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I made a lowercased version of the list at User:Dicklyon/Basketball redirects needed, so I could see how many are redlinks; many are. But looking for ones with links to them (besides from this user subpage of mine, which I, or you, can blank if it interferes with your figuring this out), I haven't found any links to them yet (I've been manually fixing some patterns that others found and pointed out to me on my user talk page). Maybe there's nothing to do; or not much. But if you can check, that would be great. Dicklyon (talk) 04:04, 18 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Dicklyon, I've been busy this weekend, and haven't gotten to that yet, but I should be able to do that and will work on it tonight. Tol (talk | contribs) @ 22:36, 18 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No rush. Nobody is reporting redlinks any more. Dicklyon (talk) 01:43, 19 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Alright; thanks. I'll get to it whenever I have time, then. Tol (talk | contribs) @ 18:55, 19 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

After the moves above, I did a bunch more case fixing, and thereby found a bunch more cases where over-capped redirects need lowercase versions. As before, it would have worked better if I had just listed all the redirects along with the articles to be moved. So, take a look at User:Dicklyon/Redirects to move for a new expanded list. I think it's best to go ahead and create all of the redlinked redirects, to make the future more robust to case fixes, rather than worry about which ones have incoming links. Maybe a general bot task for creating case-fixed copies of over-capitalized redirects could be approved? Dicklyon (talk) 17:42, 11 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Dicklyon, I could see that being good for most redirects (e.g. alternative names) but not for others (misspellings). I've only skimmed over the list, but they seem reasonable. I'll put together a 13B-style page-creation run when I can. Tol (talk | contribs) @ 19:10, 11 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Talk page archives left unmoved by TolBot

I saw that TolBot recently moved an article and its talk page to Talk:2020 NCAA Division I men's ice hockey tournament. But its talk page archives were left unmoved at Talk:2020 NCAA Division I Men's Ice Hockey Tournament/Archive 1. Can you please fix this issue? Thanks! —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 10:26, 5 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, @CX Zoom; thanks for letting me know! I don't think this could/should be handled automatically; for example, see Talk:A/B testing, which is technically a subpage of Talk:A, for an example as to why moving subpages could be dangerous. I think that, instead, I should make a note to check for subpages of talk pages to be moved and manually add them to be moved too if appropriate (e.g. if they are archives). I'll see if I can create some sort of pre-run check for this. Thanks again! Tol (talk | contribs) @ 03:02, 7 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I should (hopefully) have time to take a go at this over the weekend. Tol (talk | contribs) @ 20:25, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Article Alerts archive page moves

Heya! Thanks for offering to help with the moves.

Here are the 1639 pages that need to be moved. (Here is the same list formatted to see blue/redlinks).

Please let me know before you start moving and let me acknowledge, so I can disable the bot for the following run (otherwise the bot will just recreate the old archives when archiving entries). In other words, let me know, I disable bot, you can make the moves, I update and reenable the bot.

Let me know if you need anything else. — HELLKNOWZ ∣ TALK 10:49, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No problem, and thanks for the list, @Hellknowz! I'll go about requesting approval and will let you know when I'm ready to run it. Tol (talk | contribs) @ 19:18, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

BRFA filed. Tol (talk | contribs) @ 05:44, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Hellknowz: BRFA was approved. I set it up to run, then accidentally started the run. It moved 5 pages before I stopped it and reverted them all. Sorry about that. Anyway, it's ready to go. Tol (talk | contribs) @ 20:23, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Awesome! I disabled the bot and it won't run until I reenable it. So it's safe to move the pages now. I will reenable it and redeploy a new version afterwards, probably tomorrow. So no rush either. — HELLKNOWZ ∣ TALK 21:28, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Alright; thanks! Tol (talk | contribs) @ 00:19, 14 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Done, @Hellknowz! Tol (talk | contribs) @ 01:17, 14 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! For some reason it didn't move Wikipedia:WikiProject Spaceflight/SpaceX working group/Article alerts/Archive to Wikipedia:WikiProject Spaceflight/SpaceX working group/Article alerts/Archive 1. I moved it manually. One thing I didn't realize to mention is that I thought this wouldn't leave the redirects behind. It's not a big deal, but they are fairly useless as nothing will point to them. Hopefully, this isn't a problem for the archive box. — HELLKNOWZ ∣ TALK 11:06, 14 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Hellknowz: Hm; it wasn't included on the User:AAlertBot/Sandbox3 list. Sorry about the redirects — I didn't set the flag to suppress them. I don't think this should be a problem for the archive box. Tol (talk | contribs) @ 12:04, 14 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Question from Klavierman77 (17:08, 13 October 2022)

Hi - what is the beat way to proceed when information in an article is simply incorrect? --Klavierman77 (talk) 17:08, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Klavierman77, when an article contains incorrect information, you can simply edit it to remove or replace the incorrect information. If you replace it with the correct information, make sure to cite the source that provides the information so that readers and other editors can verify what you wrote. Tol (talk | contribs) @ 20:30, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

New Page Patrol newsletter October 2022

Hello Tol/Archives/2022,

Much has happened since the last newsletter over two months ago. The open letter finished with 444 signatures. The letter was sent to several dozen people at the WMF, and we have heard that it is being discussed but there has been no official reply. A related article appears in the current issue of The Signpost. If you haven't seen it, you should, including the readers' comment section.

Awards: Barnstars were given for the past several years (thanks to MPGuy2824), and we are now all caught up. The 2021 cup went to John B123 for leading with 26,525 article reviews during 2021. To encourage moderate activity, a new "Iron" level barnstar is awarded annually for reviewing 360 articles ("one-a-day"), and 100 reviews earns the "Standard" NPP barnstar. About 90 reviewers received barnstars for each of the years 2018 to 2021 (including the new awards that were given retroactively). All awards issued for every year are listed on the Awards page. Check out the new Hall of Fame also.

Software news: Novem Linguae and MPGuy2824 have connected with WMF developers who can review and approve patches, so they have been able to fix some bugs, and make other improvements to the Page Curation software. You can see everything that has been fixed recently here. The reviewer report has also been improved.

Suggestions:

There is much enthusiasm over the low backlog, but remember that the "quality and depth of patrolling are more important than speed".
Reminder: an article should not be tagged for any kind of deletion for a minimum of 15 minutes after creation and it is often appropriate to wait an hour or more. (from the NPP tutorial)
Reviewers should focus their effort where it can do the most good, reviewing articles. Other clean-up tasks that don't require advanced permissions can be left to other editors that routinely improve articles in these ways (creating Talk Pages, specifying projects and ratings, adding categories, etc.) Let's rely on others when it makes the most sense. On the other hand, if you enjoy doing these tasks while reviewing and it keeps you engaged with NPP (or are guiding a newcomer), then by all means continue.
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Backlog:

Saving the best for last: From a July low of 8,500, the backlog climbed back to 11,000 in August and then reversed in September dropping to below 6,000 and continued falling with the October backlog drive to under 1,000, a level not seen in over four years. Keep in mind that there are 2,000 new articles every week, so the number of reviews is far higher than the backlog reduction. To keep the backlog under a thousand, we have to keep reviewing at about half the recent rate!

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Treat moved pages correctly in the leaderboard

Currently, the October 2022 NPP backlog drive leaderboard does not treat moved pages correctly in the "Patrol" column. Namely, when an article that has been marked as reviewed has since been moved, the article is no longer included in the "Patrol" count, because the old title becomes a redirect to the new one. For example, in Special:Diff/1114061277, my patrol count has dropped from 99 down to 97, because Special Warfare Group was moved to Special Warfare Group (Singapore) between 15:01 and 16:01 UTC on October 4 (namely, at 15:53 UTC). To treat moved pages correctly, the bot should check to see whether the page with the page ID matching the log_page of the page curation log entry is an existing non-redirect mainspace page, instead of the title of the page curation log entry. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 03:11, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for letting me know, @GeoffreyT2000. I'll work on this over the weekend! Tol (talk | contribs) @ 03:06, 7 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This has ended up being a bit more complicated than anticipated. I should have this implemented soon. Tol (talk | contribs) @ 05:46, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Note to self: uses logpage rather than pageid because pageid refers to the ID of the page currently at the title (while logpage is the actual page). Tol (talk | contribs) @ 23:29, 22 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

TolBot - Task8 - config changes requested

Hi Tol, the backlog drive was a roaring success and we've decided to close the drive early. To that end, could you make the following changes to User:TolBot/Task 8/Drives/2022-10 New Page Patrol/config.json?

drive end time: "2022-10-25 00:00:00Z"
remove week4 section completely
change week3 end to "2022-10-25 00:00:00Z"

Thanks for the the changes you've done before and throughout the drive. -MPGuy2824 (talk) 04:56, 23 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@MPGuy2824:

Done; you're welcome! Tol (talk | contribs) @ 14:34, 23 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Question about the Patrol count

Hello, Tol, I have a question about the Patrol count at User:TolBot/Task 8/Drives/2022-10 New Page Patrol/leaderboard.

Using quarry:query/58438, I see that I have made 634 reviews in October so far, 49 of which are redirects (using the current title for moved pages following the bug fix above). Had the bug not been fixed, then quarry:query/58811 would be used instead.

So, my patrol count would be 634-49=585. But the leaderboard shows my count as being 586=585+1. Could you please check the code to see where the +1 comes from? For that matter, if my actor id is replaced with another reviewer's actor id in the query (with the "limit 1000" increased to a higher limit if necessary), then there would also be discrepancies for some users (but not all). GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 19:36, 23 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@GeoffreyT2000: I'll look into this; thanks for letting me know. Tol (talk | contribs) @ 23:03, 23 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@GeoffreyT2000: Alright. These logs were counted by TolBot but not by the query:

(these all seem to be pages which were later deleted). These logs were counted by the query but not by TolBot:

(most of these are related to Southern Tidung language and Northern Tidung language; I really don't know what happened there — it seems like these were reviewed as articles but were later turned into redirects). So it seems that TolBot and the query count pages as redirects/not differently, and the query excludes later-deleted pages. Tol (talk | contribs) @ 03:13, 25 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]