Talk:ACC men's basketball tournament

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Atlantic Coast Conference, a project which is currently considered to be inactive.Atlantic Coast ConferenceWikipedia:WikiProject Atlantic Coast ConferenceTemplate:WikiProject Atlantic Coast ConferenceAtlantic Coast Conference articles

College basketball Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject College basketball, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of college basketball on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.College basketballWikipedia:WikiProject College basketballTemplate:WikiProject College basketballcollege basketball articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

On 23 August 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved from ACC Men's Basketball Tournament to ACC men's basketball tournament. The result of the discussion was moved.

An excellent source

I found a good source to fill in all the blanks on these tourney articles: http://www.sportsstats.com/ACC/standings/index.html Take a look. Wrad 16:48, 25 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The link above appears to dead. Hear is a great link from the official ACC website that has all the information for the tournaments held prior to 2000. The link is: http://www.theacc.com/sports/m-baskbl/archive/110299aap.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Theel6297 (talk • contribs) 03:24, 27 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Should merge

Y Merger complete.

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result was merge into ACC Men's Basketball Tournament. -- DarkCrow^Caw 12:51, 30 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This page ought to be merged with List of Atlantic Coast Conference men's basketball tournament champions - the info on the two pages is 95% duplicative. This article's title is more consistent with other NCAA Conference Basketball Pages. Rikster2 (talk) 13:13, 17 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

At present, the list is fairly duplicative, but ideally the list would be removed from the main article and the main article expanded. With as much history as thin event has, there should be more than enough information out there to have both a full article and a list of champions. Rreagan007 (talk) 12:40, 27 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Then expand the article and keep the list intact as a part of it. There is zero need for this list when every other NCAA conference tournament article has both the prose and the list of champions, results and MVPs Rikster2 (talk) 00:10, 12 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 23 August 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 02:27, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

– These are neither official nor proper nor even particularly common names for these tournaments, in cases I've checked. They seldom appear in sources, capped or not, but show up now and then among quite a variety of variations on what to call the tournaments, which are generally descriptive. Editors have asked that all sports to treated consistently on this issue, but about two-thirds are basketball, and most of the rest are soccer, ice hockey, and volley; there may be a few baseball, rugby, and other sports. The ones listed here represent the longer list at the discussion at WT:WikiProject College Basketball#Over-capitalization (and please do review that discussion before commenting here). Please say if you see any that are treated by sources as proper names, otherwise the proposal is to downcase to "men's <sport> tournament" and "women's <sport> tournament" generally. Whatever the consensus we arrive at here, a bot will be enlisted to do the moves (about 3200 articles, max), and I'll do the cleanup with JWB. I realize there may be other over-capitalized patterns in sports, but this is a big enough group to consider for now. The relevant wikiprojects (for basketball, soccer, volleyball, and ice hockey, as well as MOS) have been notified at the other discussion, and I will notify them again after the multi-RM goes live; feel free to notify other relevant wikiprojects. Dicklyon (talk) 04:44, 23 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: The "XXX Men's Basketball Tournament" articles without a year were downcased a while ago, based on the linked discussion at that time. The ACC one that this discussion is at was the only one to get any feedback, and that's why the discussion is here. As an example of the most prominent one, NCAA Division I men's basketball tournament was downcased a week ago, on 16 August, without objection; note that the 2006 book about it, How March Became Madness never uses this descriptive phrase, capped or otherwise. Dicklyon (talk) 01:49, 24 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Survey

Neutral - Either will do, as long as we're consistent across all related pages. GoodDay (talk) 05:21, 23 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose moves. These appear to be proper names. In particular, the ACC refers to its tournament in proper-name form, so I'm not sure what this request is trying to do. O.N.R. ^(talk) 05:39, 23 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
As pointed out in the linked discussion, the ACC is not consistent with what they call it, and they capitalize many different terms for it, and other things. Per MOS:CAPS, we should look to whether independent reliable sources cap it. It's not a common term (e.g. not common enough to show up in book n-grams), and not consistently capped in news when it does occur [1], [2]. Dicklyon (talk) 16:25, 23 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Nor is the lowercase version common enough to show up in ngrams]. Randy Kryn (talk) 16:58, 23 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly, as I pointed out already with the case-insensitive n-gram search. Because it just one of many descriptive forms, not a name, proper or otherwise. The few that do show up in book n-grams, NCAA and Division I, are more often lowercase. Dicklyon (talk) 01:28, 24 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds conclusive. Randy Kryn (talk) 02:33, 24 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support These are intrinsically descriptive names (gender tournament) prefixed attributively by a proper name which describes who is holding the tournament and in prose, these take the definite article ("the") and might even be pluralised when referring to tournaments over multiple years. These names are not intrinsically [true] proper names (proper nouns). While specificity is a property of a proper name, it is not a defining property. Specificity can also be achieved (as in these cases) by modifiers and/or the use of the definite article. I have read the link given by the OP to the initiating discussion. It does not appear that these article titles fall to WP:COMMONNAME but are a title format adopted per WP:CONSISTENCY. This is a further reason that these would not be considered a proper name. With consideration of WP:NCCAPS and MOS:CAPS, I can see no reason to believe that capitalisation is necessary in these cases. Cinderella157 (talk) 10:12, 23 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support: Per nom and Cinderella157. These are descriptive article titles, not proper names. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 16:37, 23 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose moves. I belief these are formal, proper names for annual events held by the NCAA and various college athletic conferences. Many of the lower-case mentions may be generic pointers to the proper name, much like the generic pointers of "baseball" and "the majors" are used to refer to Major League Baseball (e.g. here) or "NFC title game" may be used to refer to the NFC Championship Game (e.g. here). Jweiss11 (talk) 17:42, 23 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Your belief is not supported by evidence in sources. MOS:CAPS says we only capitalize when things are consistently capitalized in independent reliable sources, and that's clearly not the case here. Even the NCAA does not cap it in many cases. Dicklyon (talk) 06:02, 24 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. Giant Snowman 18:28, 23 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom. Giant Snowman 18:30, 23 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nomination and BarrelProof. Crossover1370 (talk | contribs) 18:37, 23 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support—BarrelProof sums it up well: WP doesn't cap terms that are not proper names. And it's not enough that downcasing is not universal in RSs; a minority of downcasing is good enough for us to avoid capping. Tony (talk) 03:28, 24 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom and Cinderella157. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 09:24, 24 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Given this clear consensus, I will seek bot help to do the moves now. Dicklyon (talk) 06:18, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]