User talk:Sariel Xilo/Archive 4

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

If you are taking requests (2023)

February 2023

I neglected to mention it previously, but I did move the draft for Banana Chan to article space. BOZ (talk) 12:10, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

March 2023

You may or may not be interested in Draft:Lucian Kahn. BOZ (talk) 12:12, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

That one was published to article space, along with Alex Roberts (game designer). Other recent game designer drafts include Draft:Avery Alder, Draft:Jeeyon Shim, and Draft:Jonaya Kemper. BOZ (talk) 05:28, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

I took a stab at a couple but I'm probably not going to have the time to work on the others. Thanks for flagging them! Sariel Xilo (talk) 22:27, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

April 2023

Lots of new users doing some good work on Indie RPG topics lately, like Wanderhome and Fall of Magic. BOZ (talk) 01:08, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

I was wondering how long it would be before someone started Mörk Borg. :) BOZ (talk) 01:05, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

And also Alice is Missing. :) BOZ (talk) 14:44, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

These are some good ones, Ennies winners including Jiangshi: Blood in the Banquet Hall. BOZ (talk) 17:37, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Another one! Heart: The City Beneath. Glad to see these being started. BOZ (talk) 15:41, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

And they're rolling along now with Kids on Bikes. :) BOZ (talk) 23:35, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

@BOZ: Totally forgot to flag, but it was mentioned at the D&D Creators Summit that Wizards plans on getting rid of "https://dnd.wizards.com/" entirely and putting everything on D&D Beyond. Given their track record of just deleting webpages instead of porting them over to whatever the new platform is, we should probably make sure articles using those primary sources have archive links. Sariel Xilo (talk) 22:26, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Oh wow yeah, no kidding! I'm sure there is a way that someone can use a tool to find every instance of that on Wikipedia, and I wouldn't mind doing the archiveurl add myself - it's https://web.archive.org/save if you didn't already have it. BOZ (talk) 07:22, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

I had forgotten to go back and check, but I had asked for help with this. First of all, a list of all pages at that domain currently being cited: [1] and [2] There are many duplicates, so there are far fewer than there appear to be. The first two on the first list will have to be checked to see if those are even the right links.

Also, I was pointed to WP:URLREQ so that may also be something worth looking into. BOZ (talk) 17:20, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

Totally spaced on the link rot project which has been helpful before (ex: Unearthed Arcana request & Magic magazine). Sariel Xilo (talk) 18:29, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

I will say this... I've been going through that list manually, and I hate to say it, but I hope they have been archived already because most of those links are already gone. BOZ (talk) 04:24, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

I went through the whole list and archived maybe a few dozen. There were many duplicates so that accounts for a lot of them, but even then many were simply non-existent. BOZ (talk) 04:47, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

I also got Draft:Harpers (Forgotten Realms) restored. BOZ (talk) 02:19, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

May 2023

Do you see any more good sources out there for Night Sky Games? BOZ (talk) 06:09, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

June 2023

If you're interested, there is Draft:Candela Obscura. BOZ (talk) 19:53, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for flagging it! I had wondered if it had enough reviews yet; all the reviews I had seen focused on both the quick start guide and the show itself. I have a family member in the hospital so I'm in the odd "hurry up and wait" stage with all the logistics of their care so my wiki time will be intermittent. I have a bit of downtime now so I'll take a look. Sariel Xilo (talk) 20:02, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

You've got six months minimum before an abandoned draft gets deleted (and it can be easily restored if that happens), look after family first. :) BOZ (talk) 20:15, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

Will do. It's mostly that I have random, inconsistent downtime so I can edit in a burst but might not be the best at keeping up with talk messages! Sariel Xilo (talk) 22:00, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

August 2023

Do you see any more coverage for Volothamp Geddarm? BOZ (talk) 21:24, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

I did see that AfD pop up because the article is on my watchlist but I couldn't find any more coverage. Sariel Xilo (talk) 15:06, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

I'm sure I will find some time to work on it in the near future, but just letting you know for now that 2023 ENNIE Award winners is a thing. :) BOZ (talk) 05:02, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Filled it in! BOZ (talk) 14:17, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Here's Polygon's article listing the winners but it looks like an editorial mandate filled it with shopping links which is unfortunate. Sariel Xilo (talk) 20:51, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Dicebreaker's article is a bit cleaner than Polygon's if you need another secondary source. Sariel Xilo (talk) 16:20, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

@BOZ: Did a major update to D&D Insider but there's a paragraph in the middle of the history section that I couldn't find sources for (mostly forum posts). I saw in this old AfD you mentioned that Designers & Dragons covered an event tangentially releated to D&D Insider. Does that book mention a connection between Gleemax, D&D Insider & the failed VTT? Also, does it support the sentiment that there was customer backlash for D&D Insider launching without everything advertised? Thanks! Sariel Xilo (talk) 21:50, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Hey there.  :) You can take a look at the expanded version of the book to see what it says here: [3] BOZ (talk) 22:17, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

I can't seem to confirm that the D&D Insider VTT was intended to launch from Gleemax so got scuttled when Gleemax fell apart. I've seen some sources mention Gleemax was intended to launch some games (Avalon Hill ones) and there's the various forum scuttlebutt but nothing concrete. Even Appelcline was circumspect about it. But the Appelcline book was still really useful in expanding the article so thanks for the link! Sariel Xilo (talk) 01:00, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Do you see anything more for Amethyst RPG? BOZ (talk) 12:28, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

October 2023

I was a huge fan of the setting back in the day (still am, really), have you had a chance to see Planescape: Adventures in the Multiverse yet? :) BOZ (talk) 03:07, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

I saw it existed. If I have time in the next few weeks, I'll take a stab. I've been trying to drop random sources in my sandbox so if you've found reviews, feel free to add them there. Sariel Xilo (talk) 15:37, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

Miscellaneous Messages

OGL updates

Thanks for keeping on top of the news here. I'm not sure if some of the details are actually needed (like the number of signers of a petition) unless it's commented on by third party sources. I'm sure as time goes on we'll be able to assess what's important and what's just news cycle churn. But two thoughts. First, according to reports, it's actually going to be OGL V2.0, not 1.1.

But more importantly, it's being walked back. See the open letter they posted at D&D Beyond's website. In short, the final version is not yet written as they are going back to the drawing board. Especially since the part about rescinding v1.0a has been stated as unenforceable by the very lawyers who wrote it in the first place. oknazevad (talk) 19:58, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

@Oknazevad: Thanks - you caught me in the middle of updating! :) I've been trying to chunk up my updates so it is easier for other editors to review my changes.

• I've included the Wizards update & quotes from 3 industry outlets (io9, ComicBook, & Polygon) on Open Game License but I haven't got to updating it at Wizards of the Coast#2020–present or Dungeons & Dragons (not sure if it should go in the Licensing section or the History of criticism section).
  • With the Wizards & D&D articles, I was trying to keep it focused on the reaction (fans, content creators, competitors) & leave the nitty gritty details of the legal changes in the OGL article. I was also trying to show how coverage has gone more mainstream (The Guardian & Financial Times).
  • I haven't switched to v2.0 because that's not the language used in the most recent official Wizards statement; v1.1 was the language they used in their December statement. While there was another leak last night that used that numbering (it wasn't reported on by RSS) & io9 has started to refer to it as OGL 2.0, other outlets haven't. Not sure if we should make that change yet but I'm open to it as long as the timeline is clear (since lots of sources refer to v1.1 because that was the orginal numbering).
• The petition signature number has been quoted in a number of articles (most recently https://www.theguardian.com/games/2023/jan/12/dungeons-and-dragons-wizards-of-the-coast-ogl) but I tagged it with the "as of" template to indicate it could become a dated statement. I was mostly using the number to indicate some of the scope of the fan backlash but I'm open to removing it.

I'm about to go offline for a few hours so feel free to take the update I did and copy/modify it on those other articles. Otherwise, I'll circle back late tonight if I have time. I also wanted to add something about the boycott to D&D Beyond because apparently that had a big impact on what Wizards did but I could do that tomorrow. Sariel Xilo (talk) 20:37, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

There is some highly-motivated reasoning both from the sources cited in the OGL article and its editing. If I have a perpetual motion machine, does that mean that it will run forever without interference, or does it mean that it's impossible to interfere with so it will run forever? I'd leave this issue out entirely, first because of the low likelihood that perpetual = irrevocable, and second because of the low likelihood that there will ever be a court decision vindicating either position. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.162.242.160 (talk) 00:07, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

Please bring all discussion to Talk:Open Game License. Sariel Xilo (talk) 00:10, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

What axe do you have to grind about the revocability of the OGL? Dude, it doesn't make any sense to keep putting it in there because there is literally no good-faith legal expertise saying it is indeed revocable. 75.162.242.160 (talk) 05:40, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

Laura Bailey DoB

Hello, since all the pages surrounding Critical role seem to be your personal project, would you be so kind and add a proper source for Laura Baileys Date of Birth? The source for her birth place is a video. I did not check, if it mentioned her birthday, too, but considering that the talk page and IMDb seem to know it, I felt safe adding it. Sorry once again to step on your turf, Have a nice day - Kjfalf Kjfalf (talk) 05:43, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

Oh and I don’t know how to add a new source either way, unfortunately Kjfalf (talk) 05:47, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

@Kjfalf: You're not stepping on my "turf"; the immediate edit before your's was another editor removing the birthdate for being unsourced (see WP:DOB for more on birthdate requirements). If you'd like to do the research and re-add the birthdate, that's fine with me but it's not something I have time to do. For example, you could watch the video and if the birthdate is mentioned, you would include the timestamp in the reference. Both Help:Referencing for beginners and Wikipedia:Citing sources are good places to start as all editors are required to use sources. If you're unsure if a source is reliable, start by checking Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources (ex: WP:IMDB is listed there as an unreliable source). If you have any further questions (especially around sourcing), please go to Wikipedia:Teahouse. It's a great resource where experienced editors help answer questions. Sariel Xilo (talk) 15:38, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

Avery Alder draft help?

Can you help with my draft on Avery Alder? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Avery_Alder) It got rejected the first time and I don't know if I added enough sources. Allcatsarebabes (talk) 21:27, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

@Allcatsarebabes: It's not just about quantity of sources; it's also about sources that show notability of the subject and are known to be reliable. Some projects might also give additional guidance on notability within their subject matter. You'll notice that I've added reviews or commentary from reliable secondary sources that are focused on the subject's game design work when possible; this is because article subjects must be significantly covered. WP:CREATIVE is a good rule of thumb when trying to figure out if a person is notable per Wikipedia's standards. I don't have time to do a deep dive on Draft:Avery Alder but some steps you could take are:

• Updating the source formats to be consistent (many are missing the publisher, the author, the publication date, the access date, etc) so a reviewer can quickly assess the source quality.
• This is a good resource for verifying if a source is considered reliable: Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources.
  • If the source isn't listed, you can search the noticeboard for any discussion on the source.
  • Some projects also maintain their own lists of reliable sources. While Wikipedia:WikiProject Role-playing games doesn't, Wikipedia:WikiProject Board and table games/Sources, Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Sources & Wikipedia:WikiProject Comics/References do which can help as those projects list a bunch of the niche gaming outlets that also cover RPGs.
• You can bring questions to Wikipedia:Teahouse which is a great resource where experienced editors help answer those questions.

Many of your drafts also have non-standard layouts; one of the first things I did with both Alex Roberts (game designer) & Draft:Jeeyon Shim was separate out "career" from "personal life" and add a bibliography (ie. "works" for game designers). In terms of what to highlight in a career section, aim for works that have received reviews or awards. Games that really only have primary sources can just be included in the "works" section. Hope that helps! Sariel Xilo (talk) 22:25, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! Allcatsarebabes (talk) 22:38, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Plane of Shadow

So are you advocating the position that the Plane of Shadow is more fictional than "fictional"? The Plane of Shadow is the only Plane in the whole list which is described as being specifically fictional while the rest are all uniformly fictional. Why is the Plane of Shadow more fictional than the rest such that it deserves such special emphasis? 49.179.13.151 (talk) 04:59, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

Realmslore

Hey there! With your recent additions to the D&D movie article, it looks to me like the film will be far richer in Realmslore than I expected it to be! I saw you found more sources for Thay, and I suspect more will come out for notable Forgotten Realms locations, and possibly gods and characters, and almost certainly monsters and other D&D stuff. If you find anything for things that are not currently articles, go ahead and add them where you can, and if we come across enough content to bring back any redirected articles then I will do that. I know that with Marvel movies websites will publish articles like "you don't know this character? Here is some info on them from the comics!" and the D&D movie might attract the same kind of attention for fictional elements from the game. :) BOZ (talk) 14:29, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

@BOZ: Will do! It does seem like they want to end up with a D&D cinematic universe a la the MCU. Reading the film character stat blocks felt like reading early Adventurers League material when Wizards was really pushing the various Forgotten Realms factions. I wouldn't be surprised if every faction appears in the film (the description of Hugh Grant's character gave me Zhentarim vibes). Sariel Xilo (talk) 22:41, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

Awesome, I am reservedly optimistic that the movie will at least be fun. :) Have you seen the trailer with the "speak with dead" scene? That made me especially happy. BOZ (talk) 22:52, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

Have you seen this?: [4] BOZ (talk) 01:48, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

I did! Manganiello has been attached to a lot of D&D live action projects or at the very least, he's talked about being part of these projects. In 2017, he did a script with someone else for the D&D movie that got passed on. I wonder if it was Dragonlance focused and got rejected when they decided to do a Forgotten Realms movie. The prevailing assumption on the announced D&D live action TV series is that it'll also be set in the Forgotten Realms. If Hasbro wants to make the Forgotten Realms (or Dragonlance) the next MCU type property, they probably have a lot of heavy lifting to do as many people have no awareness of those settings. The downturn in novels & other non-TTRPG products since the early 2000s means there's not much nostalgia for these settings from younger generations. On a different note, I saw Honor Among Thieves at one of the early preview showings and it was a lot of fun. Sariel Xilo (talk) 02:00, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

Awesome and glad to hear that. :) BOZ (talk) 02:02, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

@BOZ: Two small articles from Comicbook.com on Szass Tam & Red Wizards. Sariel Xilo (talk) 02:30, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! I requested that Red Wizard be restored and moved to draft space. BOZ (talk) 21:10, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

And so it is now at Draft:Red Wizard. Almost completely unsourced, but it is what it is. ;) Maybe there is more that can be done with it. I've been loving your work on Dragon (Dungeons & Dragons) so far, by the way. BOZ (talk) 00:08, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

2023 SAG-AFTRA Strike

Please stop updating links to the old page. The page will likely be moved back within the hour. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 22:03, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

@ElijahPepe: When I was updating two articles (on the potential impact of the strike on an actual play show & its production company), the link was "2023 Hollywood actors strike" so I used that. When I went to update Actual play, I saw the article title had been changed to 2023 SAG-AFTRA Strike so I corrected the updates I had just made. I'm not running around and changing links that other editors incorporated. Your response is also a bit unclear - is the intention for the strike's article title to be switched back to "Hollywood"? Regardless, I'm not planning on doing a bunch of edits related to the strike unless it intersects articles I normally edit. Sariel Xilo (talk) 22:17, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

On Your [Partial Restore] in Critical Role (campaign three)

I describe Imogen's dreams as 'spiritual teleportation' because some part of her appears to be physically present in the places she visits during her sleep. In Episode 46(C3), Imogen visits the Tishtan Excavation Site and Liliana reacts as if her daughter were in that space with her. In Episode 68(C3), Imogen sees wildlife on Ruidus, learning of such for the first time, indicating that something is visiting Ruidus in Imogen's steed. Scrying is another example of a similar phenomenon as in Episode 92(C2). Is it inappropriate to describe such abilities in Critical Role (campaign three)? Just`Existing 03:44, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Scrying is a term defined by game mechanics but the dreams are not. While it can be hard with plot summaries, we don't want to introduce analysis of events that isn't stated in a source (primary, secondary, etc). You're using terms such as "appears" & "indicates" which means it hasn't been stated in the sources. It is your interpretation of events - WP:PLOTCITE states All interpretation, synthesis or analysis of the plot must be based upon some secondary source. See also Wikipedia:No original research. Sariel Xilo (talk) 04:18, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Okay. Just`Existing 12:05, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Swift movie synopsis

Hello Sariel Xilo, can I check if you be proposing any changes to the synopsis as I suggested on the talk page? Thanks. starship.paint (RUN) 06:57, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Didn't have much time over the weekend but I just highlighted a few bits. Also, someone has once again removed all the Cinemark mentions but it was several edits ago so will require a manual revert. Sariel Xilo (talk) 00:00, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

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Critical Role (campaign two)

Hi Sariel Xilo, I've found a few problems here; firstly, the "Reception" section has lengthy quotations from reviews that could be summarised and shortened; particularly the Duncan/Tor and Wilde/PCGamer quotations seem a bit pointless and rambling. Secondly, in "Adaptations", I added a {{when}} after "currently"; this needs to be qualified with a time frame. Finally, I think the lede should be longer—it should summarise the entire article. Anyway, good luck with the article and cheers, Baffle☿gab 21:27, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Concern regarding Draft:Spelljams

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If the page has already been deleted, you can request it be undeleted so you can continue working on it.

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Your draft article, Draft:Spelljams

Hello, Sariel Xilo. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Spelljams".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been deleted. When you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 19:36, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

Edits for Titmouse, Inc.

Hello User:Sariel Xilo: I work with Titmouse, Inc. and am interested in suggesting some updates to improve the article. I realize I have a COI relationship and I want to respect and follow Wikipedia’s rules. Two weeks ago I posted two items regarding the company’s history to the talk page. I see you have edited the article before and was wondering if you would find it a good use of your time to review the edits. I have observed that some volunteer editors request that COI’s not draft the actual edits, whereas others ask COI’s to draft their recommendations. I am happy to do whatever is most appropriate. You will find that the accompanying citation for the edits has been formatted. I look forward to any feedback you may have. Respectfully, JillTMouse (talk) 20:05, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

@JillTMouse: apologies for the delay as I forgot to flip my header over to vacation. At a glance, the two sentences seem fine but I'd like to review the article & the source (LA Times is usually fine). I've dropped the request (see Template:Edit COI/request) in a queue where editors who opt in to COI requests will see it. If no one has reviewed it in a few days, I'll circle back when I resume editing. Sariel Xilo (talk) 22:03, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

No worries! Thank you very much, I appreciate it! JillTMouse (talk) 06:47, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

Reverted change on Collegehumor Template

Hi,

I've reverted your revert on the Collegehumor template page. While I understand there is a discussion on whether to rename/merge the CH Media article with Dropout (as a streaming service), it is an established fact regardless of that in that "Collegehumor" is now called "Dropout" as per the company in question, and therefore the renaming of the template is independent of that discussion of merging of articles. Apache287 (talk) 20:28, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

@Apache287: The discussion is on if College Humor should be renamed CH Media or Dropout because while the trade name is Dropout, they haven't officially changed their name yet (see Talk:CollegeHumor#Rebrand to Dropout with Sam Reich's comments). A merge discussion has also been included (ie. while renaming the College Humor article, should the streaming service be merged in). While I agree it should be renamed Dropout, I think the template should be consistent with the article name and the discussion hasn't closed. Feel free to chime in there as well! Sariel Xilo (talk) 20:37, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

Except they have officially changed their name to Dropout, per the video they released around two weeks ago. Regardless of how we document the split between their corporate body/company and the streaming platform that they host on, the brand they are now identified as is Dropout and therefore the template should reflect that given it's documenting what falls under the "brand" and not the company (as already the Collegehumor article is semi-named as CH Media).

And I have left my two cents on the discussion as per recommendation. Apache287 (talk) 20:44, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

Again, I think the template & article should have the same name and the discussion on the name change hasn't closed because there isn't consensus. The linked discussion about the brand announcement includes this statement from Sam Reich (the CEO): it'd be a rough time to edit the wikipedia page as we're still in the process of making all of these updates! for now on paper, we're still connected ventures, though we're hoping to replace CH media with dropout within the next few months. So post-rebrand the official trade name is Dropout but that's not the official name on paper; thus the ongoing discussion on renaming the CollegeHumor article to the official name or to the trade name. Sariel Xilo (talk) 20:53, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

But right there you're admitting the brand name "Collegehumor" is now "Dropout". CH Media may be the corporate name but the template was based around the brand name of "Collegehumor" which has now ceased to exist and has already been replaced by Dropout, so the template being renamed is distinct from whatever merge option is selected as regardless the brand is "Dropout". Apache287 (talk) 21:21, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

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