User talk:QuietHere/Archives/2023/December

Your submission at Articles for creation: Never Falter Hero Girl (December 1)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reasons left by CurryTime7-24 were:  The comment the reviewer left was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

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CurryTime7-24 (talk) 21:16, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Hello, QuietHere! Having an article draft declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! CurryTime7-24 (talk) 21:16, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Bolis Pupul has been accepted

Bolis Pupul, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

Congratulations, and thank you for helping expand the scope of Wikipedia! We hope you will continue making quality contributions.

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Mach61 (talk) 21:51, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Please stop removing table semantics that are required per MOS:DTT

Table entries should have scope="row" per MOS:DTT. Removing this is a hindrance to accessibility. Please stop doing this on Wikipedia or I will inform an administrator. You can have your silly little citation formatting [1] that you claim I'm being pedantic about but you're pedantic about to change weeks later thinking I won't notice, but don't remove scopes and table semantics as it's part of WP:ACCESS. Thank you. Ss112 09:22, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

As I have asked you before, why are you writing "album name year-end lists" in captions on articles you created? Without "on", e.g. "album name year-end lists", this is like saying there are lists about or for the album, which grammatically and contextually makes no sense. It would be like saying "album name charts", as if the charts are for the album when it's one of many albums that appears on them. The year-end lists are lists that the album appears on, so on should be present in the table caption. At the very least there should be another word, e.g. "year-end list appearances" in the caption or something if you're so opposed to "on". Ss112 09:36, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

@Ss112 Perhaps I've misunderstood something, but I've looked up and down MOS:DTT and MOS:ACCESS before and I don't see anything that says "scope=row" is required. What clause are you getting that from?

We've gone back and forth on the citation formatting thing before, where you've complained to me about getting it wrong on other editors' articles (though in ways that do not affect how the page renders in the slightest), and now complaining to me that my style doesn't match your preference (which also doesn't affect how the page renders, and thus I regard as pedantic; same goes for the spaces inside of templates such as Template:Music ratings). I've been unrespondent to these complaints because I just don't think they're worth the trouble of discussing. You come to my talk page all the time to complain about how I do things even in ways where I haven't actually gotten anything wrong (some where I have as well, to be fair), and I just don't see the point in giving it my attention. And I'm not trying to hide it. I know you'll notice since we've gone back and forth on it so many times -- sometimes multiple occasions on the same page -- but I don't really care. Frankly, the style doesn't matter to me that much, it's just a slight convenience to not have to change it around every time I want to add a new ref. I mostly change it back out of annoyance with you and the way you treat my work.

I think the "on" is implied strongly enough that no readers are going to be confused by its absence. I don't know why I didn't put it there in the first place; maybe it was a mistake, maybe I just didn't think it was necessary. It's persisted only because I usually copy-paste tables from one article to another for convenience, swapping out the relevant information as necessary. If you truly think my work is suffering greatly because I'm not including that word, then I suppose I can adjust my habit to please you, but I don't see the point. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 12:59, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

MOS:DTT#Overview of basics: "Priority: high [...] Scope of headers (scope="col" and scope="row"): This clearly identifies headers as either column headers or row headers respectively", "accessibility level: A", meaning it is required for screen readers to determine what is a column and what is a row value per WP:Accessibility. Please stop removing table semantics. You can have separate columns for citations and keep your cite news paired with work. But do not remove scopes. Why are you doing this? {{Ss112 13:41, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

@Ss112 Okay, so I did misunderstand the page. You're correct, they're essential. I will start readding them as I go. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 13:45, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. I don't really think the "on" is a matter of personal preference, I don't think it makes grammatical sense without it, as it implies the lists are about the album. I'll admit, "album title awards and nominations" makes some sense, as the awards and nominations are for the album, but the year-end lists aren't "for" the album, so without "on" it's grammatically strange at the least. Really? You just said you can "adjust your habit" but you're removing it? Ss112 14:00, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

"Can" doesn't mean "will", and I still don't think it's that damaging a discrepancy. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 14:03, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

I also didn't think that would mean you would go out of your way to remove it, and you are. Please stop making things less grammatically correct. You just reverted me seven times, I think you can accept "on" to make things make more sense. I just explained how, and you're working against me. I really thought this was a compromise you were willing to make. Ss112 14:06, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

I was summoned here because of my use of a screen reader. I actually don't know a huge amount about tables but ... yeah, don't remove semantic markup that was already put there. At the most, it does no harm. And as for the table caption at Mélusine (album), I would say "Year-end list appearances for Mélusine" or "Mélusine on year-end lists", but a preposition definitely needs to be there. I don't really want to get involved in this much more though. Graham87 (talk) 14:24, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

I already said I didn't know, and I've started adding 'em in. The conversation can be done now. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 14:39, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Just a note about this edit: scope="row" does not have to be and isn't always going to be the first value for an entry in a table. The attribute should in most instances be given to the focus of the entry, and in that sense, I put it there because I believe Grammy Awards is the focus, not the year of the ceremony. Also, per Graham's agreement above, and as I'm sure you'll see, I've been adding prepositions to the captions where they were not previously. I hope it's not a point of contention for you. Ss112 09:13, 8 December 2023 (UTC)