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Gday Qcne

I would love to get some help aligning this with what it is mean to be. I did a lot of research toward this article. The article was mainly written by me, however I have used AI to clean up the spelling and grammar etc. Thanks in advance for any advice you can give. Scottnailon (talk) 12:59, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Scottnailon. So, firstly, you need to convert your external links in the body of the text into proper in-line citations by following the tutorial at WP:INTREFVE. External links should only appear in the External Links section. You should get in-line citations that point to a footnote for every biographical statement, and this will automatically generate a reference list for you.
Going onto the tone though - it's really obviously been written by ChatGPT. Its full of promotional language, phrases, and words that you only really find in AI-generated text (I've reviewed hundreds of AI text and can spot this really easily now). Wikipedia articles must be written from a completely dispassionate neutral point of view. i.e. Robert Nailon's contributions to bodybuilding, particularly through his photography, have left an indelible mark on the sport you would only be able to state indelible mark if you are quoting a reliable, independent source which uses that exact phrase.
The entire draft needs re-writing to be in this utterly neutral tone.
Please check WP:NPOV and WP:PEACOCK for more information.
Let me know if you have further questions. Qcne (talk) 13:08, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
Ok sure. Thanks for the help btw. I am not very good at any of this. And yeah ok you called it - I did use LLM for a lot of it, then corrected certain things, then have LLM rewrite it to correct grammar etc.
in the way of neutral point of view, is this better?
Robert Nailon
Robert Nailon (born 1945) is an Australian bodybuilder, photographer, and artist. He is recognized for his involvement in bodybuilding and his photographic work within the sport.
Early Life
Robert Nailon was born in Sydney, Australia, to Michael and Elizabeth Nailon. Raised in Sydney's eastern suburbs, he developed an interest in drawing and sports during his youth. Nailon was also passionate about cars and photography, frequently driving sports cars along Sydney's beaches. In 1963, he met Paul Graham, a future official with the International Federation of Bodybuilding & Fitness (IFBB), which influenced his career path .
Career
Bodybuilding and Photography
Nailon's engagement with bodybuilding began in his youth. He became known within the bodybuilding community both for his participation in the sport and for his photography. His images have appeared in several bodybuilding magazines, including Muscular Development, Musclemag International, Muscle Training Illustrated, Strength & Health, and Health & Strength .
Nailon's photography has been noted for documenting the bodybuilding scene in Australia and abroad. His work is considered a significant record of the sport during his active years .
Gym Ownership
In 1974, Nailon opened a gym in Randwick, Sydney. The gym attracted bodybuilders and fitness enthusiasts and was known for its facilities. Nailon managed the gym until 1992 .
Relationship with Arnold Schwarzenegger
Nailon is known for his professional relationship with Arnold Schwarzenegger, whom he photographed during Schwarzenegger's visits to Australia starting in 1972. Nailon's photographs from this period have been widely recognized and referenced in discussions about Schwarzenegger's career and bodybuilding history .
Nailon was present at the 1980 Mr. Olympia competition, a notable event in Schwarzenegger's career. His photographs and accounts of the event have been referenced in various sources .
Legacy and Recognition
Nailon's contributions to bodybuilding, particularly through his photography, have been recognized within the community. His work continues to be appreciated for its historical and artistic value Scottnailon (talk) 02:23, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
@Scottnailon That's better. I would remove the entire Legacy and Recognition section, as it is a bit promotional.
The key thing is that every single statement in that draft must be backed up by a reliable source. Starting with the date of birth. Examples include:
  1. "He is recognized for his involvement" < recognised by whom?
  2. "which influenced his career path" < influenced how?
  3. "He became known within the bodybuilding community both for his participation in the sport and for his photography" < evidence?
  4. "been noted for documenting the bodybuilding" < noted by whom?
  5. "His work is considered a significant record of the sport" < considered by whom?
  6. "Nailon is known for his professional relationship" < known how?
  7. "Nailon's photographs from this period have been widely recognized and referenced" < source?
  8. "accounts of the event have been referenced in various sources" < source?
Hope that helps. Qcne (talk) 10:21, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
Gosh that is so difficult to go do! Most of his stuff is in old magazines and said publicly but different authorities. I will have to dig deep. Scottnailon (talk) 12:24, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
Sources can be offline, as long as they are published. You'll need to correctly reference them so that a reader can verify the source by e.g. going to a library or archive. Qcne (talk) 12:52, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

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Administrators' newsletter – July 2024

News and updates for administrators from the past month (June 2024).

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Request on 12:18:50, 12 July 2024 for assistance on AfC submission by Mane358



Mane358 (talk) 12:18, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

What assistance do you require, @Mane358? This is the English language Wikipedia, we do not allow other languaegs. Qcne (talk) 12:22, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Wonder_Dynamics

Hi! Can you please review the draft again, please? I do not agree with your comments.

First of all there is a description of the processes at the company, to explain what is the technology about and how it works. There is nothing promotional there. Also, all the secondary sources are reliable news platforms, main magazines in the tech world and cinema writing about the company. Steven Spielberg is the main investor and advisor. History- cannot be more neutral. Technology- explanation of how it works, there is nothing promotional. Acquisition by Autodesk- is a fact, stating a fact about acquisition. Investors- just a list of names. Famous names is a promo? Impact- the impact it has on the indutry. not sure what is wrong with that. you can remove it if you'd like. J2009j (talk) 19:55, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Hi @J2009j. I disagree, and here is my rationale:
  1. "company that leverages artificial" < meaningless PR-speak.
  2. "The company aims to democratize high-quality VFX and CG production by making these technologies accessible and affordable for filmmakers and content creators" < literally just the sort of thing you'd see in a press release.
  3. "The company quickly garnered attention for its innovative approach to VFX, attracting significant investment and high-profile backers" < maybe so, but this should be re-worded to be neutral. What attention? Who said it was innovative? Why was the investment significant. Who says the backers were high-profile?
  4. "The company's flagship product, Wonder Studio, uses AI to automate many of the labor-intensive processes involved in VFX creation. This includes automating character animation, lighting, and composition. Wonder Studio integrates with industry-standard tools such as Blender, Unreal Engine, and Maya, allowing users to streamline their workflows and reduce production costs" < again, just the sort of thing you'd see on the About Us section of a webpage.
  5. "a leading provider of 3D design, engineering, and entertainment software" < PR-speak.
  6. "The integration with Autodesk's tools is expected to further simplify the VFX creation process and provide users with more robust features and capabilities" < basically taken from the press release.
  7. "underscoring the industry's confidence in Wonder Dynamics' technology and vision" < PR-speak.
  8. The entire Impact section is promotional.
So, I hope you now understand why the entire draft is a thinly-disguised advert. It needs blowing up and re-writing from scratch. What you should be doing is finding reliable, independent, secondary sources (NOT interviews with the founders, NOT press releases, NOT routine industry news) and summarising / paraphrasing them in a neutral way.
Finally, @J2009j, what is your connection to this company? I find it difficult to believe a non-connected party would write in such a gushing manner. Do you work for them? Let me know.
Let me know if you have any questions. Qcne (talk) 20:35, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
Thanks for answer. That is chat gpt. I have seen their CGI work, i do not work with them, or know them.Can you please take a look again?
  1. "company that leverages artificial" < meaningless PR-speak.- i do not think it matters. i replaced it with uses, it is basically the same thing
  2. "The company aims to democratize high-quality VFX and CG production by making these technologies accessible and affordable for filmmakers and content creators" < literally just the sort of thing you'd see in a press release.- that is how they describe what they do, i think it is clear for the general reader
  3. "The company quickly garnered attention for its innovative approach to VFX, attracting significant investment and high-profile backers" < maybe so, but this should be re-worded to be neutral. What attention? Who said it was innovative? Why was the investment significant. Who says the backers were high-profile?- there is an entire section called investors with the list of names that are high profile- Epic Games, Samsung Next, Horizon Ventures, Founders Fund, and MaC Venture Capital. High-profile Hollywood figures such as Steven Spielberg and the Russo Brothers (Joe and Anthony Russo). It is from deadline and other independent influential industry journal.
  4. "The company's flagship product, Wonder Studio, uses AI to automate many of the labor-intensive processes involved in VFX creation. This includes automating character animation, lighting, and composition. Wonder Studio integrates with industry-standard tools such as Blender, Unreal Engine, and Maya, allowing users to streamline their workflows and reduce production costs" < again, just the sort of thing you'd see on the About Us section of a webpage.- So? That is the description of their work from one of the main tech magazines featuring industry news. The description of the nature of the work is important to provide information on what exactly the company does, what tools uses etc.
  5. "a leading provider of 3D design, engineering, and entertainment software" < PR-speak.- if you go to wikipedia page about Autodesk or open any article about it - it is what it says. Replaced it with the "main"
  6. "The integration with Autodesk's tools is expected to further simplify the VFX creation process and provide users with more robust features and capabilities" < basically taken from the press release.- i do not think it matters, it explains what was the purpose of the acquisition
  7. "underscoring the industry's confidence in Wonder Dynamics' technology and vision" < PR-speak.- took out that part. I believe the sources are more that reliable, those are influential magazines in tech and film, Deadline for example- it is a main magazine related to film news, none of them are paid. As paid articles have a note they are paid.
J2009j (talk) 22:54, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
Hi @J2009j. I am unsure what you mean by "That is chat gpt". Are you saying you wrote your draft with the help of ChatGPT? If so, that explains why the tone isn't acceptable for Wikipedia, ChatGPT has real difficulty writing prose in a neutral manner.
If you cannot see from my examples why what you/ChatGPT wrote is inappropriate for Wikipedia, then I would highly suggest reading WP:NPOV and WP:PEACOCK. Qcne (talk) 11:10, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
Yes, chat GPT. However many edits were made now in the draft. Can you please check when you can? Other editors do not even read the sources. J2009j (talk) 15:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
Thanks- I'd recommend not using ChatGPT in the future to write articles.
I am now looking at the draft again, and it no longer has promotional language, thanks for that.
I have had a look at every source in detail (please don't accuse other editors of not doing so, unless you can mind read?). The problem with most of the sources are heavily based on quotes/interviews/PR statements. This form of churnalism doesn't do anything to establish notability.
So lets pick out the sources that do contain some analysis/interpretation without relying on the company itself. The only sources that really does this is deadline and time magazine. Two out of 16 sources that meet WP:42 isn't great, and makes me think this company may not yet be notable. It probably would be if you could find one or two more sources like deadline/time magazine.
I'd recommend cutting the content of the draft down further and removing a lot of the churnalism sources. We'd much prefer three really strong sources than 16 poor ones. If you can find one or two more sources that provide some real independent analysis/commentary/discussion/review that would help. Qcne (talk) 15:56, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
Thank you. I added source 6, 8, and 13. I also removed some repetitive sources about the acquisition. One of them - 6- is a detailed analysis of the company by an expert in AI. Would you please check? J2009j (talk) 16:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
I have accepted, as I think that just about puts it over the edge. Please add some WP:CATEGORIES. Qcne (talk) 16:44, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
Thank you. J2009j (talk) 17:26, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

"Crossover Crisis (song)" draft declined

Why was my page deleted? MandosNotWandos (talk) 13:59, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Hi @MandosNotWandos. It has not been deleted, only declined. But I see no evidence it merits a Wikipedia article? Only topics that are notable may have a Wikipedia arrticle.
Let me know if you have any questions. Qcne (talk) 14:19, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Draf declined

Hey Mr Qcne, I wanted to contribute by translating a song by the Turkish artist bülent ersoy from Turkish to English, but you rejected it, what is the reason? Deckardvibes (talk) 22:12, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Deckardvibes. Only music which meets our criteria at WP:NMUSIC merit an article - we basically need multiple independent sources. You currently have one independent source. We'd usually need three. Qcne (talk) 08:21, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Help to improve

Hello there,

This article was rejected due to the reference's standard. so, edited, and resubmitted

Kindly asking you check it again and if there is any issue, please let me know.Redbu77 (talk) 12:08, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Christopher_McDonald_(booking_agent)

Hi! It is my third page I made. Someone reviewed it, I edited it. Can you please review it? You helped me with my last page. I checked the tone and sources there are reliable secondary sources. Producers and talent bookers are not those making appearance on the TV. They work on making those projects happen. It is a page about the significant producer of a big show in the US.

He was awarded an Emmy for his work on that show, which is the main award for the television. He is not an actor, but also joined a big film project Superman for a main role there. I do not even know what category it falls in. I tried to follow your advice with tone. J2009j (talk) 15:55, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Hey @J2009j. Christopher fails WP:NACTOR as he hasn't yet had significant acting roles (your sources describe him as a newcomer to the screen). Therefore I go to the criteria WP:NPRODUCER. We have one co-Emmy award and one nomination. Most of the sources that speak to him as a producer are interviews, so he fails this criteria too.
So, defaulting back to the general WP:NPEOPLE criteria - most of the sources are interviews and brief mentions, so not significant independent coverage.
It might just be WP:TOOSOON for Christopher to merit an article yet. Since the Superman (2025) is yet to be released, I can imagine some better sources coming out closer to the release date or afterwards?
I'm declining it on the above basis, but without prejudice. Qcne (talk) 16:33, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
I'll also add, the tone is fine - I'm just not seeing notability yet. Qcne (talk) 16:33, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
I agree with you. I struggled to even find his birthday. The issue that i find common is these producers of the TV shows do not appear in public. For example, the other figure listed there Craig Tomashoff, he received multiple Grammys for the Kelly Clarkson show, and he is among those creating it, it is one of the main shows in the US and they just do not care about publicity. Same with the Late Show with Steven Colbert, and Jimmy Kimmel I find it is a niche that lacks coverage in Wikipedia.
I think there will be coverage related to the Superman to him as an actor. However, I read he joined Superman more as a favor to director, who wrote they are old friends, so acting is not his job. I saw that all people on the cast have wikipedia pages already. What caught my attention was that there are a few people with same name Christopher McDonald. Some news platform, even used images of the other person Christopher McDonald to cover the news about Superman, because they thought that is him. J2009j (talk) 17:03, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
This is what I am talking about, and there are at least 6 or so article like this I found on Google. https://www.thebulletintime.com/news/james-gunns-superman-adds-mikaela-hoover-and-christopher-mcdonald/
Some fans commented on Twitter too, and it seems like this magazine fixed it. That is my motivation to make the page. https://x.com/AndyBehbakht/status/1799200048313442585 J2009j (talk) 17:14, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
Ah, yeah, that is frustrating. Unfortunately we can't do much about media having lax editorial standards and not doing their research properly (Wikipedia absolutely shouldn't be used by these orgs to do the research, since we're not a reliable source).
Like I said, may become notable in the future especially with his role, but not quite yet. Qcne (talk) 17:28, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
I read what you shared. For the WP:producer - The person has created or played a major role in co-creating a significant or well-known work or collective body of work. In addition, such work must have been the primary subject of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews, or of an independent and notable work (for example, a book, film, or television series, but usually not a single episode of a television series);
It says he has served as a talent producer and booker for all 5 seasons of Kelly Clarkson, producing music part in every episode. If we add the links to credits, do you think it could be an option? Considering receiving an Emmy for it- as the recognition of his work on that. J2009j (talk) 18:23, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
Hm. I am actually not sure. It might be worth asking on the WP:AFCHD, you can link to this discussion, to get some input from other reviewers. I don't have much experience with WP:NPRODUCER.
He definately doesn't meet WP:NACTOR yet and there isn't evidence for meeting the more general WP:NPERSON criteria, but that criterion #3 is debatable, so I think a second opinion might be useful. Qcne (talk) 20:44, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
Thank you. I will ask there. J2009j (talk) 22:08, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) Press releases, interviews and The Times of India are not reliable sources and will need to be replaced. Theroadislong (talk) 22:22, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
Yes, I know. We were discussing if i will be adding credits for episodes there." talent producer and booker for all 5 seasons of Kelly Clarkson" is a lot. We were discussing if we can use credits for work to use criteria 3 for WP:producer J2009j (talk) 23:02, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
I added sources #5 with credits for episodes. J2009j (talk) 23:06, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
@Theroadislong I wonder if you can help with if this person meets criteria 3 of NPRODUCER? Qcne (talk) 08:04, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
I removed Indian times, and some other sources. Added one from 2013, about the person working on another show as senior producer. 2603:8000:B6F0:8A10:60DB:39F4:E90D:F7A5 (talk) 17:50, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
Nobody replied there. Do you think I should ask again? 2603:8000:B6F0:8A10:60DB:39F4:E90D:F7A5 (talk) 21:29, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
I actually never checked Imdb. He did 104 episodes of Kelly Clarkson show as producer. J2009j (talk) 02:36, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Ruby_Gillman_(Character)

Okay, I got rid of 50 percent of the article. Can you review it to me. Electricgirl22 (talk) 18:38, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

This is still written in an unencyclopedic manner and still needs cutting down to just the basic real-world facts. Please read WP:NPOV. You should be finding sources first that are reliable and independent, and then summarising them / paraphrasing them. That should be the content of your article. I feel you've written this draft backwards which is a very common error new editors make. Qcne (talk) 18:42, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
@Electricgirl22 please do not forum shop. You have already received an analysis at the at the AfC Helpdesk. Asking yet another reviewer to take a look is just wasting their time. S0091 (talk) 18:43, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

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Dick Beetham

Hi can accept ordecline a draft about dick Beetham 72.81.139.147 (talk) 23:38, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Plana School

Quick question, how did you make all of those references on the Plana School article fit on one reference line? I was messing around with that and could not figure it out. Wabbit98 (talk) 17:57, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Hey @Wabbit98. Using the Visual Editor you can re-use references and fill in bare URLs, follow this tutorial: WP:INTREFVE. Qcne (talk) 08:08, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

TOI

Hi,@Qcne

I have read the criera and understood TOI . Thanks for information it will help me for upcoming my drafts. I have remove the TOI Ref and others are making it notable . when u have time kindly review it Draft:Bhavya Trikha Monhiroe (talk) 12:05, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

hI KIND REMINDER Monhiroe (talk) 17:08, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
It was accepted, @Monhiroe? Qcne (talk) 17:38, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
i have moved the page. Can u please review that as per criteria. any changes needed? Monhiroe (talk) 17:39, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
We don't review pages that have already been moved to mainspace. You have the right to move drafts to mainspace but that bypasses the review process. Qcne (talk) 17:47, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
thanks @Qcne for your reply Monhiroe (talk) 17:51, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Help in Notability and referring

Hey, could you please help me with an article I'm trying to get published, what would you say are the short comings and how could I improve on them Jainplaw (talk) 05:31, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

There is simply no indication she is notable, @Jainplaw. Check WP:42 for what we require in sources. Qcne (talk) 20:05, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
Could you please tell me how do I make the article notable? Jainplaw (talk) 04:44, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
@Jainplaw you can't make a subject notable: notability comes from significant coverage in multiple independent, reliable, sources such as newspapers or magazines or books or journals. Qcne (talk) 08:34, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
I have mentioned 16 reference which are from independent, reliable sources from new papers and other website. Could you point out what are the mistakes if any in my referencing. Would adding more references from other sources be sufficient to get the article approved? Jainplaw (talk) 06:42, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

Stella (Trane) Jackson

Hi, I have had multiple conversations with you about this article and was wondering if there are any updates. Reason being is that I finish my internship with Trane this week and need to know if I can transfer the rights to this article to a different employee. Thanks Adsimmel (talk) 12:04, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Adsimmel. The draft is still in the review pool, unfortunately we have many thousands of drafts waiting to be reviewed and only a small number of volunteer reviewers.
You can not transfer your Wikipedia account to the new intern/employee, this is against our terms and conditions, so please don't pass on your password to them. Just tell them to make a new Wikipedia account and to make the same paid editing disclosure you did. Any editor can edit the draft so you don't need to "transfer the rights" via any sort of formal process.
I have cleaned up some of the language (the final sentence especially was obviously written by AI and not suitable for Wikipedia), and added a couple of tags for citations.
Best of luck with your career! Qcne (talk) 17:18, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
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