User talk:Pencefn/Archive07Q1

WCML blockages

Scottish Wikipedians

Cambuslang railway station

Image:Caernarfonstation.jpg

Reminds me of a discussion

Template:Infobox SPT stations

Usage etc

Station Names in Historical Railway Articles

Prestwick Airport Railway Station

History now

General Terminus Quay

Use of infoboxes discussion

DLG/ME

Glasgow, Paisley, Kilmarnock and Ayr Railway

Glasgow, Barrhead and Kilmarnock Joint Railway

Assessment

SPT infobox, UK infobox etc

Photographs of Montgreenan and Cunninghamhead

The new rail 'maps'

MML

Route Maps - Connecting Lines and Junctions

Category:Needed-Class rail transport articles

Auchenmade railway station

WP:TRAIL icon

Route Maps - Getting out of hand?

Kelvinbridge railway station

Bowling Oil Terminal...

Template:Infobox Scotland disused station

Rail route maps

UK stations infobox

Kirklee Station

Midland Main Line template

Railway Route Maps - Obsolete Icons

Archives

This is an archive of past discussions about User:Pencefn. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

The Archive of my Talk Page during January, February and March 2007.
Archive Index

Hi Stewart,

Thanks for your message.

Please feel free to change or modify my blockage statement if you disagree. It appears that your experience was early 1970s whereas mine was more mid- to late- 1970s and early 1980s. So that may account for it.

From 1973 to 1976 I was in Manchester / Salford and we used to intentionally travel on the train, anywhere, there & back, on Sundays, just to go on the deviation routes, which were often freight-only lines.

It was not until 1979 that I started to do Paisley to Glasgow / London returns frequently, including the sleepers. I just seem to remember that Sunday travel was always diesel hauled via the G&SWR, when it was double-track; whilst weekdays it was always an electric loco, but sometime with a diesel, on the front as well to drag us through the dead sections on the WCML. Pyrotec 23:43, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Good evening (GMT time); nice to meet a fellow Scot and Glaswegian (or user who has lived in/near Glasgow, anyway) around the Encyclopedia.

Regards,
Anthony cfc ^{[T • C]} 20:56, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Good morning (GMT time); I would really appreciate it if you stopped reverting my edits to the above article with out at least informing me or, even better, discussing it with me at my talk page. It is common courtesy and, as one of the main editors of the article, I care a lot about it and simply want it to be the best it can. I am sure you feel the same way, and furthermore recognise where I am coming from in this matter.

Kind regards,
Anthony cfc ^{[T • C]} 12:31, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Hello Stewart - took me a while to find my diary. The photo was taken on Wednesday, August 10th. 2005.

Rosser1954

I can understand why he is doing this unfortunately, or it might just be coincidental. Remember User_talk:Mangoe/Wikipedia_is_not_a_timetable and User talk:Mangoe/Railroad line and station articles. Simply south 20:03, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Okay, this is now complete to a point where it can finally be implemented on the station articles. Could you add the history section with the many events to the code, like the example in Glasgow Central station is shown on the UK stations infobox? I have also yet to do the syntax. Simply south 17:15, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the help otherwise with info used in the creation. Simply south 17:37, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

If you are talking about taking the usage data from the Office of Rail Regulation, it is already built into the template.

<pre style="overflow:auto">{{Infobox SPT stations
|railexits = 2.879
|railexits0405 = 2.778
|subexits = 56
}}

Btw the figures are completely made up. I have not used a real station. That is not the point. Anyway, to get the exits for the overground

High exits:

railexits
railexits0405

Low exits:

raillowexits
raillowexits0405

For the Subway exits:

high: subexits
low: sublowexits

Also, i have seperated the overground and underground platforms

railplat for overground
subplat for underground

which produces

{{Infobox SPT stations
|railplat=4
|subplat=3
}}

Another thing. Don't worry about the user page. That has happened before with another user. I wonder if i should do a personal signature...

Simply south 18:08, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Now there are multiple sets of exits on here for the rail exits and the subway exits. They were already built in. You just need to add "rail" or "sub" at the start of exits to produce the usage. Simply south 18:28, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

It may come out wrong as i already added the fields for the exits to distinguish them, before i moved the page to its current location. Some of these fields may need to be delted. Have a look also at Template:Infobox London station. Simply south 18:34, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I think some of the problem is that there might be the same fields entered in twice or more. I am not sure if it isn order. Simply south 18:53, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I have got rid of the extra 05s now as they were presenting a problem. I've had a look at a preview of Partick. Other than 2 minor things, it ran smoothly. 1 the station code is missing but from your message you will sort that tomorrow. You also need to seperate the platforms as the platforms field is not included. Should i save the Partick one? Simply south 19:22, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

One other thing is that i have moved it again so that it is in line with the other similar templates. Simply south 20:30, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Thats okay. I am going to be away for the next few days. Simply south 22:24, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I copied and added the code field to the infobox. Simply south 20:53, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I am sorry to keep bothering you but i have fixed the exits field now so low exits should no longer show millions. I am going to go ahead and implement it soon. Simply south 21:06, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi. Just a thought: Is it appropriate to put the modern name Upper Tyndrum in the historical West Highland Railway article? There may be similar examples; in such cases, I would suggest using a contemporary name (while still linking to the same article as at present). This needn't necessarily be the original name, e.g. Tulloch is fine because it was renamed from "Inverlair" soon after opening. What do you think? Signalhead 19:44, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I noticed you took out the 'International' part of the name. This debate has been going on in the Airport wiki page, and the airport website is www.gpia.com, (Glasgow Prestwick International Airport), it seems to be part of the official name. Just thought you might want to know. Douglasnicol 00:34, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Okay, everything is working, nearly. The three random stations i used were

There is however a slight problem when using Anderston. I decided to employ years1 etc and events1 etc and they turned out fine, except they do not appear in a section on their own, but under SPT. Could you just remedy the title? I am not sure how to do this. Simply south 22:22, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the pointer, forgot to say. Simply south 16:32, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi Stewart,

Try this link Pre-grouping map

There are more details in Hidden Glasgow, I'll post more links when I find them. Pyrotec 14:33, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi Stewart. I've posted a reply and some links on my user page, under this topic.Pyrotec 17:49, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi Stewart. Looking at a map of the Clyde Navigation, dated Nov 1960 (given in Glasgow's River) the GT&GHR appears to cross under Shields Road bridge at the mid way point. I've put a Google map link in my talk page. I don't yet know how to copy these things. Pyrotec 20:32, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi Stewart. I found the answer on a reproduction [£2.20 + 0.60 pp from here] 1895 1:2500 OS map. The link line from Scotland Street junction, passed under Shields station, at the east end of the platform, and passed through a curving tunnel, under Shields road and the ends of the 'roads' at Forge Lye, joining the City of Glasgow Union lines at approximately the (imaginary) intersection of Keir Street (or a straight line across the Kingston Bridge) and what was Crawford Street (later Kilburnie street). Pyrotec 18:22, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi. Just a quick note to say thanks for helping the discussion by bringing it all together. Very ~~constructive~~ helpful. Cheers. Adambro 21:49, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Stewart, I believe you are right that its DLG not Merddin Emrys. I think the clincher is the cab, which is much more enclosed on ME (for example [1]). Well spotted, and thanks for correcting it. Gwernol 23:23, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Hey Stewart, just to say I've finally gotten round to experimenting with the the 'interactive map' thing we spoke about previously that I had started but abandoned a while back, see my Sandbox for what I've done so far. Basing the map on such an early date obviously misses out a lot of later stations, so the choices would be to either have more than one map, or just list the later stations in the article somewhere. Any suggestions? I've expanded the article too, and I've also tried to start fully references these articles as well, if you can fill in any of the gaps where I've put ^{[citation needed]} then feel free! --Dreamer84 21:09, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Filled in a few details. Some of the information will have been in contemporary railway magazines. My father had an extensive collection of Modern Railways from 1960 to mid 1980's. Unfortunately they were discarded when he died and my mother moved house a few years ago. I am fairly certain that these had an article about the Cook Street bridge. Living in Kilbarchan (in Milliken Park Road) at the time, I remember that week as the noise of the loco hauled trains reached our house.

What about Howwood (Renfrewshire) railway station on the map?

--Stewart 22:28, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Brilliant, thanks for filling some of the gaps, and for fixing some of my mistakes (though can't remember where or who the erronous Paisley and Renfrew date came from!). Howwood was (apparently) closed during the time the map is supposed to represent, so I didn't include it. Since the map was supposed to be c. 1850, I thought it would be more accurate to have the 1850 names on them, hence Crosshouse's "Busby" name (Cunninghamhead should be Stewarton too but forgot to change it). --Dreamer84 22:32, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Cochrane Mill became Milliken Park (Cochrane Mill Road crossed the line just south west of the original station. Howwood is a few miles further south west, but I think you are right about the dates. It is early developments like this which cause difficulties. Maybe adding a date to the map would be useful, or adding Howwood in a different colour (or font) to indicate an early addition.

I have linked your Sandbox to my User:Pencefn/Historical Scottish Railways as a worksheet for the Glasgow, Paisley, Kilmarnock and Ayr Railway.

--Stewart 22:39, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

There's already a date at the top of the map. ;-) I did get my wires crossed there about Howwood and Milliken as you may have noticed before I edited my message! A greyed out Howwood station is certainly another option. Ideally there could be say three different maps: one for the original configuration in 1840, one at the time of merging in 1850, another one later in the G&SWR days. The problem is the thing is so big that it would look silly having three maps that size in the article. --Dreamer84 22:48, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Does Priesthill and Darnley belong in this article? I know the current station is of recent build, but I am not sure of the existence of a station on this site in the past. Stewart 21:32, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Nope shouldn't even remotely be there. Must have overlooked it after we decided that only 'contemporary' stations would be featured in these lists. I'll remove it just now. Just only need to hope now that no-one else decides to "correct" the Pollockshaws spelling again. --Dreamer84 23:38, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

I feel i have been in a lull for a while and want to go about iimproving the project. So i have started a discussion on this (assessment that is) on the project talk page. I will post to let the other users know. (I also corrected the Howwood station link above. I hope that was ok.) Simply south 14:36, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi Stewart. Apologies if the changes I have made regarding the usage data are not what you feel to be appropriate. As I've noted elsewhere, the reasoning behind it was to simplify the template. I've also questioned the value of the data in terms of making comparisons due to both the problems with regards to the accuracy of the data and the differences between the data from the two years. I would agree that 'usage' is a better term for the data but it would be difficult to change this from 'exits' as the majority of articles use this form. For this reason I felt it would be better to change to 'exits'.

Regarding the whole SPT infobox/UK infobox/Glasgow Subway infobox thing. I've had a change of thought on this and my proposal is as follows:

I think a better approach would be to have only one infobox used on all UK stations, this being the current Infobox UK station, or at least a slightly modified version of it. By adapting this template it could be used on UK subway stations, railway stations, and railway stations with subway stations. I'll copy it into my user space and make the modifications. I would eventually like to see London stations move over to the UK station template, and whilst understanding this would be quite a task, will be trying to allow for this future work in my mods to the template. This is all part of what seems to have become my personal project of trying to ensure consistent UK station articles. My thought that area specific info like links to SPT etc are better in a footer template (like the Adambro/SPT stations) stands. I'll mention my change of plans on the other appropriate talk pages.Adambro 17:57, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Good pictures you have taken and posted today. This time is definitely the best time with limited vegetation growth. The two at the top of my current hit list are Castle Semple and Lyoncross - both stations which were never opened, but with some civil works carried out. Lyoncross is particularly difficult for access being still on an operational line. --Stewart 18:01, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, my main reason for the trip was to get a shot of something to put in the GPK&AR article for the Dalry-Kilmarnock line, since its sorely lacking in pictures. Was hoping to get a shot of one of the two viaducts on the line, but despite a quick trip over some fences and through a field it was difficult to get a good shot of either. Decided to get some station site pictures while I was in the area. I was actually surprised at how low-cut the grass is for the vast majority of the line. Top of my list is to get a photo of Auchenmade, which I believe still has its two platforms intact. --Dreamer84 18:30, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

I have been thinking about Auchenmade for some time as I drive past it to/from work some days (when I decide I have had enough of the M77/A71/A78). Unfortunately it is still dark when I go past at present and I was waiting until there was enough light in the evening. --Stewart 18:50, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

I like the edit you have made in your Sandbox version of the GPK&AR article (adding a photograph). It has been in my mind for a while to target a line (I was thinking of the L&A) and spend a day or so taking photographs of disused stations and major structures. Unfortunately, current commitments mean that it will probably be early April (holiday, AmDram and work commitments). --Stewart 19:08, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

I've had similar thoughts, I actually considered doing the L&A today but by the time I actually got around to going out and about it was already mid afternoon so stuck to something slightly more local to me. I have a photo of the Giffenmill Viaduct that was demolished last year, been meaning to upload it for a while. Talking of Auchenmade, I just bought a period photograph of the station from pre-1930s, but no idea what the copyright stance would be on it. Would be great to post though, aside from Cunninghamhead there are just about no vintage photographs of any of these stations on Wikipedia (mainly due to copyright of course). --Dreamer84 19:18, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Love them!

One question though, what do you think about the Historical lines? Obviously these new maps are far quicker to do than that map thing I've got in my Sandbox (I do plan on moving that page over to the real GPK&AR page one of these days :)). Noticed in the legend there's facilities for closed lines which is handy. --Dreamer84 00:43, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Do you know how this could be applied to Nottingham

However

					Chesterfield

					Alfreton
					Belper
					Langley Mill
					Derby
					Cross Country Route
					Nottingham for Nottingham to Lincoln Line,
					Nottingham to Grantham Line and Robin Hood Line
					Long Eaton
					Beeston

					Loughborough

Secondly, do you know how to sort the order these examples of tables are meant to go in? Simply south 22:18, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for rearranging the order here. However just to note. On this branch, trains do not bypass Nottingham but they do have to reverse out to carry on. Simply south 22:45, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Ok that looks good. I am not trying be a critic. I still feel i need to get better at templating. Simply south 23:07, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

We need a consistent approach for showing connections to other lines. Sometimes we show the line branching off, and other times we just write "- for XXX Line" after the station name. Any thoughts as to the 'rules' for when to use either method? Signalhead 22:41, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

After discussion that began in January (see the AFD for Talk:Long Island Electric Railway, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Trains#Needed-Class category, User:Slambo/TWP shop and Wikipedia talk:Ignore all rules#Is this a valid application of IAR? for some background), we are now in the process of removing Category:Needed-Class rail transport articles and deleting the talk pages of articles listed there. Notes that pertain to the article sugjects are being copied to Wikipedia:WikiProject Trains/New article notes so we still have a record of information that should be included in the articles when they are created. If you have additional information on the article subjects for talk pages that you created in this category (other than project banners), please add the information to the New article notes page. For article subjects where you don't have additional notes, feel free to add their names to Wikipedia:WikiProject Trains/Todo/Write. Thanks. Slambo (Speak) 13:25, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I drove past there on my way to work yesterday morning and was debating the best place for a photo. I think that your picture Image:Auchenmade railway station 2007.jpg is great. It is amazing how the platforms have survived for so long. Well done!! --Stewart 18:56, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Hey, thanks, was expecting to get shot at by a farmer or something as I'm not sure who owns the land, but manage to nip over a gate, take some shots and get out again. Couldn't believe the platforms were there in their entirety! Also got some pictures of the sites of Dreghorn railway station and Springside railway station which I'm uploading just now, though sadly there's nothing as interesting there now. --Dreamer84 19:06, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

I am pretty sure what you have created would count more as an rf than an lg. Simply south 17:00, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Whatever you call them, I'm really greatfull for the horizontal ones, lack of them is causing me grief!!! Thanks again Pickle 17:17, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Those are great. Can you upload them to Commons as well, please? Many thanks. AlexTiefling 16:25, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

I've just seen what's been done to route map at Shotts Line - motorways added, station names in bold, small symbol for some stations, diverging routes added. I sincerely hope that the Scottish route maps don't all go the same way as some of the English ones, for example Watford DC Line & South Eastern Main Line, both of which are way over the top, in my opinion.

I thought we had it about right as far as the Scottish routes go, i.e.:

For 'Current' lines' articles, I see the route map as being little more than a pictorial replacement for the list of (open) stations, with connecting lines mentioned. These articles, which are of a more general nature, should be kept free of clutter so that they remain relevant to the casual viewer who might be using the information to plan a train journey.
For 'Historical' railway articles, which are likely to be of primary interest to rail enthusiasts, it is quite appropriate to show more detail, such as junction layouts, tunnels and closed stations (although I think we can do without the motorways and carriage sidings).

The sooner we can all agree on a standard presentation, the better. There might have to be a different standard for the Scottish lines, seeing as the English lines don't have separate current/historical articles like we do. Your views please? Signalhead 19:08, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Fantastic stuff, is that the original platforms that the outline of are still barely visible? I think the number of photos is fine but I would put them in a gallery so they look nicer. Great work! --Dreamer84 23:46, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

...is closed, and the associated sidings have been almost completely lifted. Signalhead 21:26, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi there, I note you have made a number of edits to Template:Infobox Scotland disused station and so I ask for your opinions on my proposed move. Please see my comments at User talk:Dreamer84#Template:Infobox Scotland disused station and reply there with any comments you many have. Thanks. Adambro 21:45, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

The articles I'm working through hare all those that contain the icon, so they should all get done. If there any I've missed once Whifflet Line has been done, let me know. Tompw (talk) 11:41, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Typo... I meant the

icon. Tompw (talk) 11:50, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi, would you mind taking a look at my suggestion here? Thanks, --RFBailey 19:17, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi

Me again with another question. I saw you'd updated the Kirklee Station page, so you clearly know where it was. Is it in the centre of this map: [2]? I went and had a look tonight actually, I can see where the bridge crossed over Ford Road. When I climbed up and had a look at the trackbed south of Ford Road there's platforms, so I guess that's roughly where it was, as the flats north of Ford Road are fairly new. I'm just wondering if I've got the location right.

Cheers —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Notorious Biggles (talk • contribs) 01:17, 27 March 2007 (UTC).

Can I invite you to a discussion on the future of this template, and the possibility of creating two template from this one at Template talk:Midland Main Line. L.J.Skinner^{wot|I did} 18:06, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Tks for your message. A bot would certainly be possible, but I have no permission to use one, and I have no information how to make one. But Spoorstrip.exe is of great help. I only need to copy the data to Spoorstrip and back again. HandigeHarry 09:11, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Fort William

Spean Bridge