User talk:PaleCloudedWhite/Archive 3

This archive covers the period between 30 July 2013 and 1 January 2014

Retirement??

Please reconsider your decision to retire. It's getting a bit like Custer's Last Stand here. Don't let them get you down. Regards, David, David J Johnson (talk) 09:15, 30 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A tragic waste of good sense and talent

I do hope you reconsider your retirement, PCW. Or at least that you do not make it a permanent one. I think we all know exactly what you mean - your reasons are perfectly valid. But your humour and support are ~~one~~ just two of the things that have actually kept me here, as you already know. We both know that good humour and respect are actually more important than so called "good editing". Without co-operation and collaboration this project is quite worthless. (And you don't have to simply volunteer, you know.... I actually have a top-class supply of very fine and juicey English plums that might tempt you back...) Martinevans123 (talk) 09:21, 30 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A Wessex horticulturist,

Was decidedly high on my list,

But this PaleCloudedWhite,

Got drawn into a fight,

And now he’s decidedly missed.

Ruined my mascara

How terribly, terribly sad. I've been following the recent noticeboard discussion and was just thinking you'd make a perfect admin. In my short time here you've shown yourself to be one of the most level-headed and kind-hearted people around. I sincerely hope it's au revior not goodbye, and that you will soon grace our presence once more. We'll miss you, PCW. -- Hillbillyholiday ^talk 09:41, 30 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"Would make a perfect admin" — very true, but poor chap! Sminthopsis84 (talk) 00:21, 31 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Empathise

Dear PCW
Whilst I endorse our two friends' postings immediately above here, I completely understand. I took seven weeks *off* recently.
As ever –
– Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard|— 10:01, 30 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well said, Mr Buzzard. PCW deserves a rest. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 00:19, 31 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Please reconsider retirement

Our content dispute is no reason to stop contributing. The WikiProject and the project as whole is not improved by your leaving.--Amadscientist (talk) 22:16, 30 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Also, while I really do not understand your reaction, I still feel an apology for whatever misunderstanding there was is appropriate, and extend it.--Amadscientist (talk) 00:57, 31 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Quiet comment

Thankyou to everyone for their kind words. The hardest thing about retiring from this project is saying goodbye to the wikifriends - the collaboration, the sharing, the humour. Most of the time, such things more than compensate for the negative aspects. I retired because the balance had tipped the wrong way, and I was feeling demoralised and worn out, and a particular talk page thread just pushed my patience too far.
The truth of my position is that, outside of Wikipedia, I am quite exhausted by the demands of my working life. As an illustration of my 'real life' plight, four times in the last week I have slept overnight in my vehicle - twice because I was too tired to drive home after work, and twice because, even though I managed to drive home, by the time I got there (at approaching midnight), I was too tired to get into the house. "Tired and emotional" are words one often hears put together, and perhaps they could be applied to me.
Maybe I shan't make my retirement permanent; aside from anything else, I find I can't keep away from logging on, and can see several rather annoying items have appeared on my watchlist... Maybe I shall edit in a quiet way and see how I feel just reverting vandalism and nonsense.
On a wider point, my view is that, if Wikimedia people really want to encourage editor retention, they should concentrate on reinforcing the positives which I mention above, rather than spending time and resources designing software of dubious benefit (mentioning no names, Visual Editor...). If the conflict and rudeness can't be fully replaced by respect, politeness and friendship, perhaps Wikimedia should try and recruit new editors by visiting a few S&M clubs, as the clientele there might actually enjoy some of the more abusive aspects of Wikipedia (I'm only half joking, alas...).

There was a young lawyer named Fred
Who used to like pain in his bed,
But now for delight
He logs on a site
And gets verbally whipped instead.....

PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 13:04, 4 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ah-ha, just as I thought!! Some low-down work-shy lay-about pikey no-gooder with some poxy hard-luck story! What a schmuck!! It's kinda obvious, watcha gotta do, dude... just go sell your house, get a classic van, and invest the difference! You know it makes sense! Failing that, um, have a wee break, laddie. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:30, 4 August 2013 (UTC) (p.s. if I call you an asshole, will I get an indef block?) (... please?)[reply]

Me too

Not sure what's gone on while I was away but I also hope you reconsider retiring. The project will miss you.--Ykraps (talk) 20:18, 4 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It's true! Studies have confirmed ...

that Wikipedia admins are less polite than non-admins, and that editors promoted to admins become less polite. So, much as we'd all love to have a friendly, decent, admin who we could count on to give us indef blocks if we beg hard enough, if PCW were to come back, encouraging him to follow the path to admin status could have tragic results. Dagnabbit, he might become unrecognizable. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 19:03, 5 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"Urgh, yikes, Muskie, I feel such a plank." Martinevans123 (talk) 19:09, 5 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Much obliged to you for such educational^{disambiguation needed} material. So kind of PCW to supply the space. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 20:05, 5 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

pork-en-pines?! .. rich Dorset porkies, more like! Martinevans123 (talk) 20:16, 5 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@ Sminthopsis (Muskie),
How on earth did you find this? –
– Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard|— 20:32, 5 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Friend in the business (language, not politeness) mentioned it after seeing an excellent talk yesterday about the work, that included cartoons of dogs which unfortunately don't appear in the paper. Sminthopsis84 (Muskie, follower of Porky Pine, no relation to the Deacon).

Let's keep Beauregard Bugleboy out of this, shall we? Martinevans123 (talk) 20:59, 5 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Aren't we discussing politeness? Sminthopsis84 (talk) 21:13, 5 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

indeed. So sorry PCW is missing out on his share of gooseberry pie. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:27, 5 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

As he writes above, he is unable to stop keeping an eye on this page –
– Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard|— 21:37, 5 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It's true Gareth, I'm a (nearly) hopeless addict (sigh), and can feel myself being irresistibly drawn back to my dealer. Are you ready to get your plums out Martin? (give me a double entendre, and I'll run with it...) PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 01:39, 6 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ere, who do you think you are, Graeme Garden the Grumpy Greengrocer or something? And we'll have none of this fruit -related tomfoolery thank you very much. We've got serious work to do. -- Hillbillyholiday ^talk 02:42, 6 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You do realise that a List of unusual love objects is likely to be proposed for deletion at least ~~five~~ ~~second~~ ~~six~~ ninth times, don't you? (And talking of fruitiness, even I don't wear mascara, so that must make you a very 'strange fruit' indeed, Ms (H) B Holiday...) PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 08:13, 6 August 2013 (UTC)|Wikipedians[reply]

My method,PCW, of coping with the abusive, bad-mannered, ignorant, illiterate, loutish, Wikipedians is to
smartly delete their posting on my Talk page ASAP
ensure their's is not on my Watchlist
remove the article in *discussion* from my Watchlist.
In simple terms: walk away from it!
Kindest wishes to all above in this thread.
Sincerely,
— Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard|—08:45, 6 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Come come, now, cloudy, we all know you are a bit of a snake in the grass... And some of those pic nic tables can be very attractive, you know... Martinevans123 (talk) 09:10, 6 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Talking about snakes ... ! –
– Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard|— 09:24, 6 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome back!!

Yay!! Thank heavens for Wang Dang Durdle Door!! And I was just about to reach for those plums... Martinevans123 (talk) 08:31, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thankyou Martin. Your knowledge of subjects to crosslink to seems, well, encyclopedic! (have you ever thought of editing one - I think you'd be quite good at it!) PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 07:38, 9 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

.... it sounds an utterly futile exercise. A bit like knitting fog... Martinevans123 (talk) 07:56, 9 August 2013 (UTC) [reply]

Oh I don't know, I imagine one could knit quite a nice - if somewhat rough - Yorkshire vest with this bit of fog. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 08:37, 9 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I meant knitting Yorkshire frog.

I'll go and thank Durdle Door for bringing you back! Welcome, we need you. Regards, David, David J Johnson (talk) 09:49, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thankyou David. I think the article needs a little bit of tidying before its pic appears on POTD. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 07:38, 9 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In girum imus nocte, et consumuimur igni -- Hillbillyholiday ^talk 12:46, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Nah, you're thinking of that Jewish weight-lifter Franky Stein. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:57, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thankyou HBH (I think. Though I can't really work out what you're on about! The only Latin I understand is Betula pendula, Pelargonium tomentosum, Rosa fedtschenkoana etc.....) PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 07:38, 9 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Naice

Noice that you are back. Please don't chuck that picture... I loved to lake ot take a look at it time to time... Hafspajen (talk) 8 August 2013 (UTC)17:50

I likee lake a lookee too –
– Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard|— 19:47, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@ Hafspajen, Following you addition just now: Great to witness your sense of humour! –
– Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard|— 19:59, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

. And yours, Gareth...Hafspajen (talk) 20:05, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Picture reinstated. Yes, it is rather 'noice', and thanks for your appreciation! PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 07:48, 9 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

. Ah, this does makes you take a deep br noice... lovely. Hafspajen (talk) 22:17, 12 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Durdledoorus Rex

Well ile bee-bumswizzuld..

Fankin u zur mizzzer paleclowdedwight zur fore taikn orl twoddlypop form durdl-Dor imer frade i done unnerztan dem long wurdz zir.butday iz look in reelynaize zur..

Worzl Gummij (Cupatee anna slice a caik?)

The Durdle Doorus Barnstar

Hot rockets! Wot welkinfires ov delight! Thank 'ee koindly, Worzl Barns - ur wurdz vill up moi bludpump. PaleClowdsO'Wight

I go as far as to say that some of my budgie buddies have a bent to speak in this tongue. "HELLUVAPLAYUR BUH" is commonplace. In any case, glad to see you're not retiring. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:20, 12 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thankyou TRM, that's very kind of you. (Budgie buddies? Not to be confused with budgie smugglers, otherwise Delia might be inclined to get even more over-excited...) PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 12:19, 13 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

An' 'ere's unuvver barn for you, me dearie. Hayley Cropper (talk) 20:24, 12 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thankyou Hayley, that's also very kind. It's a very bijou barn, isn't it? - the perfect size to accomodate the multitude of stars which I've picked up during my illustrious career here on Wickedpedia.... Raquel Wolstenhulme

...seems we've got you by the short and curlies, P.C. White. Yours, down the Rovers, Our Vera (talk) 12:35, 13 August 2013 (UTC) [reply]

Just think how good The Smiths could have been if only Morrissey hadn't got involved... -- A jumped-up pantry boy who never knew his place

ooo, Billy, just love playing the Private Dick, dontcha!? Martinevans123 (talk) 13:38, 13 August 2013 (UTC) [reply]

I like to think I bring a touch of class to proceedings. -- Hillbillyholiday ^talk 04:29, 15 August 2013 (UTC) ps 13,748 views![reply]

A touch of cloth? If the Welds got this bit o' cloth to take an entrance fee, they'd have a Durdle Doorwhore! fnaar fnaar! PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 10:44, 15 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I see we have the good old Frayling Gang to thank for that particular cultural icon. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:06, 15 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Now known as the Bazalgette Binmen? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 22:19, 15 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hahaha. I hear they also do conceptual comedy. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:55, 15 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Good old John

Good evening PCW,
Thank you very much for following me on that railway station this morning [2] ... I should look over my shoulder more often ... I have just put it back to proper order [3] since your good work was undone by the same individual earlier today. Cheers!
— Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard|— 18:33, 14 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You're very welcome Gareth. I'm quite familiar with nearby Bushey, so was intrigued when the Watford connection appeared on your talk, and I had a look. I completely agree with your removals; I suspect the other editor may be connected to the group which wishes to save the station. I had noticed they'd almost immediately reverted my reversion, but couldn't pursue the matter further as I had to go and do something really filthy instead... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:15, 14 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

My thoughts on the editing too. –
– Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard|— 01:12, 15 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Great post on UK Talk this morning! Thanks for the big smile I have still.
Thought this would amuse you in view of what you wrote above here [4]
Cheers!
— Gareth Griffith-Jones | The Welsh Buzzard: Cardiff born and bred | — 09:39, 2 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Poundbury

Hi PCW, Just thought I'd let you know that our Poundbury window addict has surfaced again, without any proper reference. They seem to wake-up every three months or so and always from Southampton area. Think your idea of blocking-up his/her windows might be a good idea! Anyway I've reverted the edit once again, but will be away for the next week or so - if you can keep an eye on the article? Good to have you back with us, Best regards, David, David J Johnson (talk) 12:21, 16 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hello again PCW, I have, yet again, reverted our "friend" from a different IP address, but in the same IoW, Southampton or Portsmouth area. I have now warned him that he risks the article being protected from IP edits - but as stated above - I am away for all of next week, so would be grateful for you keeping an eye on the Poundbury article. My own view is that the BBC source is quite adequate and in any case to "balance a facade" these days - you put in another window. Still think we should do a midnight trip to these addresses and block-up their windows!!?? Best regards, David, David J Johnson (talk) 19:45, 16 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hello David. Poundbury is already on my watchlist (as are almost all settlements in Dorset), so I'll definitely be keeping an eye on it. Something tells me that blocking up their windows might get us into trouble - unless, that is, we go in disguise

..... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 23:18, 16 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Dorset, huh? Shudder!. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 17:12, 17 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Can I be Ada please?? Off on break this weekend. Best regards, David, David J Johnson (talk) 09:57, 17 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I should have guessed you'd want to be the pretty one....

PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 11:25, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Twas brillig and slithy toves I mean, the stuff with the fine porcelain and the piggs.

'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

(Jabberwocky's adventures by Lewis Carroll) Hafspajen (talk) 12:12, 25 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The gebbel weebs were memulous,
How slube they brome their brunge and voils;
Their poblicks moobed so lemulous,
We spoosh-remembled all the goils.
(Gibberwishy by Carol Lewis)(talk)

11:25, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A vital resource for those tricky poetic articles: [5] - G. Ibber-Rish (talk) 21:42, 23 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

And also for understanding our John..... WalePloudedChite

Great band!! - "I Got Your Number (.. written on the back of my Wikipedia page)."

Wonderful! I do so love a good slice of gibberish -- Llywelyngwillyholiday

"Ymlacio dy ffa coffi!!" - chill thy coffee beans!!, Bryn Bwch Gwyliau!!

Nice, Hafspajen (talk) 10:10, 22 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Cerddwyr edrychwch i'r chwith, Cerddwyr edrychwch i'r dde [6]Hafspajen (talk) 10:10, 22 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Haha, thanks for that real gem, Hafspajen. I'm sure there are plenty more just as bad. I'm always looking left instead of right, I have to admit Martinevans123 (talk) 19:09, 5 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't this Hafspajen (talk) 12:12, 25 August 2013 (UTC)suposed to be transformed into a MartinEvans? Hafspajen (talk) 16:30, 19 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I'm having that problem on here. It doesn't appear to be occurring everywhere on Wikipedia; is it just my talkpage? PCW

Looks like it, PaleCloudedWhite, no problem anywhere else. (Hafspajen alias Warrington)Hafspajen (talk) 12:12, 25 August 2013 (UTC) Has to do something with your way to early retirement? Hafspajen (talk) 12:12, 25 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed the mess, but all comments are Hafspajen now, o sorrow, o dear. Thus would need a little bit of history-digging to do. Hafspajen (talk) 12:23, 25 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Precious

pruning
Thank you, nature-loving gardener, for showing yourself in beautiful images, for quality contributions to articles such as Ivan Massow and Walled garden, for taking care of articles around Dorset, for pruning, - you are an awesome Wikipedian!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:00, 2 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thankyou, Gerda, and welcome to my talkpage! I think in my case 'not bad' is more accurate than 'awesome', and certainly easier to live up to! But thankyou - you are very generous! PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 22:37, 2 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I "inherited" "awesome" from the ones who did it before me, take it as a tradition. I like "not bad", see? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:01, 2 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A year ago, you were the 593rd recipient of my PumpkinSky Prize, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:12, 2 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

593 has always been my favourite number, Gerda - I don't know how you could have known such a thing... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 20:12, 2 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Famous at last

Great post on UK Talk this morning! Thanks for the big smile I have still.
Thought this would amuse you in view of what you wrote above here [7]
Cheers!
— | Gareth Griffith-Jones | The Welsh Buzzard | — 10:06, 2 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Eh.

Mill Ends Park...? This is not a park, it is a flowerpot. At least this is a house, not a mousehole, se Smallest House in Great Britain. Hafspajen (talk) 13:22, 3 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A flowerpot indeed. Maybe this chap tends the flower 'borders'...? As for the 'smallest house', spot the difference..... PCW

Indeed. Hafspajen (talk) 14:20, 6 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Any thoughts?

[8]
— | Gareth Griffith-Jones | The Welsh Buzzard | — 19:20, 3 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Do you think I should join the ~~editor statistics~~ ~~race~~ leaderboard, Gareth? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:30, 3 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You are much too gentle to sign up to that, dear friend. Thought my explanation of "mfd" might have been challenged by the Admin OP by now. I have no idea what s/he was trying to indicate. Cheers!
— | Gareth Griffith-Jones | The Welsh Buzzard | — 10:26, 4 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

All I can think of is that it possibly stands for "(something beginning with 'm') for deletion", though can't imagine what the 'm' might stand for. Mess? Miasma? Moomins? (I'm just being silly now...) PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 11:16, 4 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Moomins with Cleopatra wigs?

Poor Martin's missing all the action at everyone's favourite list. Surprised no-one's commented on this one yet. -- Hillbillyholiday ^talk 17:48, 9 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't blame the beaver - I think I'd get violent if someone tried to grab me for a photo opportunity. And I've got quite good teeth too. (Moomins in Cleopatra wigs? Oo-er!) PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:26, 9 September 2013 (UTC) [reply]

What now

HELP, PLEASE COMMENT ON ‎In Russia, Ukraine and other post-soviet countries, Cottage article. Hafspajen (talk) 14:35, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

What a mess! I started looking at ways of copyediting it, but I think it mostly needs deleting - it focuses on the word "cottage", and what that means to Russians, when it should focus on small houses in Russia, even if they don't call them "cottages". PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:24, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've had a bash at making sense of it all, largely by stripping out the Cyrillic words and poor English, though it still concentrates on the word rather than the concept - but then in a way so do other parts of the article, as the concept varies from place to place. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:54, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

And a mess it was! Noticed that somebody already reverted your edits in that article, and no reliable source, as it did with my edits too... I am afraid it is going to be a little difficult. Hafspajen (talk) 17:35, 23 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed more images, as it was still a bit crammed with them (I see you'd been taking some out previously). Shame to see them go though - I've removed some nice wee houses. The Polish one was especially charming... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 22:51, 23 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, that's now much better. Good job. Less place to go edit for focuses on the word "cottage", and what the Russians think about that. This picture was also nice. How about chose the nicest of them and make little gallery? Hafspajen (talk) 13:14, 24 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think galleries in articles are generally frowned upon by the MOS, unless perhaps we choose images which highlight particular things - maybe unusual things. But in the meantime, we could always start a gallery here, such as with these: PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 23:11, 24 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"Cottage-le-Street"

YYYYYYEAes!!!!!!!!!!!!! Very good. Like that. I do NOT frow upon galleries. I think that pictures add much to an article, and about cottages, just how would you explain all this in words? And the good news is that it doesn't really matter. Look at this: Wikipedia:Ignore all rules. Hafspajen (talk) 17:26, 26 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hafspajen (talk) 20:40, 2 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Dubble the landscape

Picture of the day

Machado de Assis

Photograph credit: Marc Ferrez; restored by Adam Cuerden

Hafspajen (talk) 11:34, 29 September 2013 (UTC) Raised-bed gardening and a flowerbed is not the same thing, I say.[reply]

Quite so, and though there is some intersection - in a Venn diagram kind of way - I think the current redirect is a little off base. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 22:06, 29 September 2013 (UTC) (BTW, that picture looks a little familiar....

)[reply]

Bedding (horticulture), than? But that is mostly annuals, not perennials. Hafspajen (talk) 22:20, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It depends what people mean by "flowers". Herbaceous border is an alternative, and certainly better than Raised-bed gardening. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 22:26, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, better. But still confused. Should this flower bed page should be a disamb. page? Hafspajen (talk) 19:22, 30 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure there'd be sufficient different meanings to warrant a disambig page. What about redirecting it to Flower garden? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 19:53, 30 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, can you do that?? Are you a gardener, by the way? (Not exactly a landscape any more. it's a heron.)

Hafspajen (talk) 21:06, 30 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've done it. Yes, I'm a professional gardener, and have been for nearly 23 years. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:12, 30 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well that's great. Both that you did it and that you are a professional gardener. I am a landscape architect, but I mostly do garden design. Here we go again, look a Gardener is NOT the same thying as Gardening, do you agree? Hafspajen (talk) 21:29, 30 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, though in this case, in the absence of an article about gardeners, I can't think of a more apposite redirect destination than Gardening. Do you favour a particular style in your designs? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:44, 30 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Style: I like Hidcote Manor Garden, Gertrude Jekyll , Sissinghurst Castle Garden, cottage gareden. Where should gardeners go? Home... Why don't we have a article about gardeners? Hafspajen (talk) 21:54, 30 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know why there's no article on gardeners - I think there's quite a lot that could be written (famous gardeners past and present, gardeners in art and literature, gardeners as a stereotype, charities and societies for gardeners, the changing role and status of gardeners etc.) (As an aside, if you fancy a small bit of horticultural amusement, take a look at the first and fourth edits which I made to the Garden article earlier today.....) PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 22:26, 30 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think too there's quite a lot that could be written. Who is going to do it? Gardener is now a separate article. And how about you, do you favour a particular style in garden design? Hafspajen (talk) 07:48, 1 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The new article - very quick! I didn't realise we already have Celebrity gardener and List of professional gardeners - maybe the first of those could be merged with the new article? As to my favoured styles, I like gardens which you can immerse yourself in, which surround you and feel full of life and vitality. Hence I'm not very keen on Versailles-type gardens, or Zen gardens for that matter - they're both too controlled and static for my taste. I prefer something more relaxed, preferably with a bit of wildness (or craziness). Flowers are good too. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 20:08, 1 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The new article - you too, please! After all it is your occupation, no? You had some good ideas, famous gardeners past and present, gardeners in art and literature, gardeners as a stereotype, charities and societies for gardeners, the changing role and status of gardeners etc. By the way, do you know any roses that do keepp the promise The flowers appear continuously throughout the summer, my experience is that there are no roses to do that. No I would't like a Versailles or a Zen garden at home, though I would visit them any time. Hafspajen (talk) 12:31, 2 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

All in good time (for the new article)! About roses, the most continuously flowering rose I know of is 'Mutabilis', which is classed as a China rose - it pretty much has some flowers on it all through the summer. However it will only tolerate perhaps -15°C, so isn't a cultivar for climates with cold winters. I think that generally speaking, the warm-climate roses tend to be quicker at repeat flowering. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 20:34, 2 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No to warm climate here. I like 'Mutabilis', but 'Mutabilis' looks moore like a butterfly, than a rose. Iceberg I think is quite good, but still not all summer. Have a cup of tea! Hafspajen (talk) 20:40, 2 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It's funny you should say that about 'Mutabilis', as it's one of the parents of 'Mateo's Silk Butterflies'...
I'm rather partial to single-flowered roses, such as 'Mutabilis' - they tend to have a natural grace and elegance. Others which I use a lot are 'Sally Holmes' and 'Complicata' - the latter is very beautiful, and pictures don't do it justice. But it only flowers in June. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:11, 2 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I do like them both. But when I have plenty of place it is no problem, a tiny border neds something to go with that gives plenty of flowers, well, I did not found any sure The flowers appear continuously throughout the summer type. Some say Alexander, but I never tried it. Peace does NOT, for example. Ballerina is not bad. Hafspajen (talk) 21:57, 2 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Spider

Thanks for that... I didn't realize that when I got to the June revision that wasn't "vandalized" it was actually when the infobox template had changed §FreeRangeFrog^croak 23:35, 8 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Yes, it took me a while to work out what was going on. I realised something must have happened to the template because nothing in the article source text ever said "help me!!! call 911" etc. Hence I asked for enlightenment from people who might know, and got a very speedy fix and reply. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 23:48, 8 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Come back

I think so too that this probably counts as a funny little house. Where is this from? Hafspajen (talk) 14:40, 17 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It's at Setenil de las Bodegas in Spain. It's a bit of a crazy place! This website has many more pictures (more dramatic than the ones on the Wikipedia page), as well as info about lots of other quirky places around the globe. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 19:56, 17 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Wow, I'd be tempted to get a few like that added to the article! Commons has quite a good collection. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:13, 17 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I think the article should have wall-to-wall (heh heh!) pictures - that'd be nice! (And I'd like to know how the snow got in the 'tunnel' section of the street - maybe some peculiar eddies blowing around...?) PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 20:32, 17 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"Eey lad, que va para un baño temprano, by 'eck!!" Martinevans123 (talk) 20:36, 17 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, well you can tell me if I did the rightthing... Hafspajen (talk) 08:16, 18 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That looks OK; I just moved the gallery and gave it a heading. Though you obviously have a different screen/browser to me, because for me the new gallery is uneven, which I know gives you the creeps..... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 08:59, 19 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Really? Weird, it looked fine on mine... I don´t want you to give you the creeps either. (One Never Knows, Does One?!)

what an outrage!!

"Oh, botheration!!", as Robertson Hare might have it. lol. Yours-in-Brian-Rix-shorts, It Pays to Advertise (talk) 21:22, 24 October 2013 just like a plane... (not that you'll be able to hear it, of course... lol)

Botheration? Nay! "Calm down dear", your hairy tendencies are much appreciated! I thought your reworking of this hirsute-penned classic was top class! Yours, Ol' Baldy (and no, I couldn't hear it, sigh!)

awww bless, poor old George, eh? hanging about in those dodgey bars and getting those awkward chocolate stains.... yours, with the door a-jar, Martin-"The Rocker"-123 (talk) 22:12, 24 October 2013 UTC

For this thread it seems somehow apposite to mention the fact that Mr Panayiotou was educated in Bushey... (titter!) PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 23:13, 24 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Not to forget that his duo Wham! partner, went on to run a dubious night club in leafy Ricky which was soon closed by the local boys in blue ... action that was unpopular with pill-poppers.— Madame Fanny La Fan | Nouvion, 'allo, 'allo! | — 07:14, 25 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oi, Paley!! Leave it art, mate, olrite? Martinevans123 (talk) 07:53, 25 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No, not PCW, Martin. "Ole buzzard" waz 'ere 'allo, 'allo! lovely legs
— | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh | Buzzard| —09:28, 25 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I feel quite starstruck - not only the shuttlecock boys on my talk page, but also Ricky, Paley, a Welsh rocker, then some posh-sounding French bird who turned out to be a more familiar performer...
Well, that's quite an interesting ensemble, and you're all very welcome chez PCW - please feel free to help yourself to nibbles. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:34, 26 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

What a wonderfully balletic pose you strike here, PCW.... "Ballet Roots", no doubt! Yours in the garden, Old Birds Nest Soup (talk) 22:00, 26 October 2013 Martinevans123 (talk)

I prefer my soups to come in pairs.

PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 22:24, 26 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

~~"omfg" I laughed for a week when I first saw that sketch...~~ I do apologise for my rather tardy editing of late and I'll do my best to encourage RedPen to respond more quickly too ... but 'er's anuvva Sid wiv very dodgey pins, but wiv a right lemon tart cab

To be fair, I suppose it must be difficult to respond to anything quickly when one is viewing List of unusual deaths 687 times a day, haha... (Why has that been proposed for deletion again?) PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 23:02, 26 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It seems someone spilt the soup.

Wondering what the chef called the soup ... Creme de l'homme perhaps? Hope he seasoned it well! Plenty of this flavour enhancing agent, in the place of salt, would suffice. — Madame Fanny La Fan | Nouvion, 'allo, 'allo! | — 00:57, 27 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

...I think this forlorn fellow could do with a bit of carroty sustenance - he's literally wasting away! PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 09:13, 28 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Robertson Hare's thread is metamorphosing into an encyclopaedia
— | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh | Buzzard| — 11:49, 28 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

South-east

Regarding this edit, usage is divided on whether "south-east" takes a hyphen or not. In broad terms, American writers are more likely to leave the hyphen out and British writers are more likely to put it in. The Oxford Style Manual, for instance, explicitly includes the hyphen. I guess the point is that either usage is acceptable, so to edit an article simply to remove the hyphen, particularly from a UK-centric (rather than US-centric) article does not seem helpful. --Stemonitis (talk) 08:55, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The intention was to be helpful. I don't have a personal preference either way. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 09:07, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In England, it appears, we have to go southeast to get to the South East? Martinevans123 (talk) 10:25, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Not if you live in this peculiarly named place... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 19:32, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I know his brother filing clerk and their cousin His Grace the Bishop of Rupertland (awwww). But who would ever want to live in such a wierd place!!? except perhaps the Duke of Kent, of course. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:07, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Happy Halloween

Trick or Treat! Happy Halloween, PaleCloudedWhite! I hope you have a great evening and remember to be safe if you go trick-or-treating tonight with friends, family or fellow zombie editors. Remember to put that Father-Jackum'-lantern in your front parlour window (for all the creepy neighbours to see)!! Happy Halloween!

Swiss Toni (talk) 21:42, 31 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Help spread Wikilove by adding {{subst:User:Dainomite/HappyHalloween}} to other users' talk pages whether they be friends, acquaintances or random folks.

Thankyou Toni (or should I call you Neil?), and what a funny coincidence - I was just reading the Trick-or-treating page, specifically the section about 'Guising' in Scotland. I'm afraid I laughed when I read that "Occasionally a more talented child may do card tricks, play the mouth organ, or something even more impressive" (wot, more impressive than playing the mouth organ?), but was then 'reassured' that "most children will earn plenty of treats even with something very simple. Often they won't even need to perform." Phew! Well that's a relief then! Shirley Temple

Shucks, and I searched for a "Sir Reel" Neil Spragg for hours, sob!! Of course, if you want to reelly see real guising you need to go here. You'd better get this wee Scottish Hallaween partee started!! --"See you, Shirley" (talk) 22:32, 31 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Speaking of the ol' Welsh belter, I have it on good authority that she's got a great London pad for parties..."Warren Beatty's sister"

Ah yes, the plastic and leather goods from Kew Gardens, I remember it well - all precious cultural icons, I would suggest. The most accurate guide to Llundain I have ever seen. Divine! Martinevans123 (talk) 23:51, 31 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Happy Halloween

	Hello PaleCloudedWhite, Hafspajen has given you an lovely bat, to wish you a Happy Halloween! You see, these things promote WikiLove and hopefully this has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a lovely bat! Enjoy!
	Spread the goodness of a lovely bat by adding {{subst:User:Miss Bono/Halloween}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Decently clothed chimney

Hi PCW, could you look at this image (bearing in mind that unlike some of the contributors to your talk page I wouldn't direct you to a naughty image) to see if you agree that the plant in question is probably Parthenocissus tricuspidata? It is used on vine as well as quite a few other-language wikipedias, and a better explanation than "climbing plant" would be nice. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 19:24, 1 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm. Tricky. I agree that P. tricuspidata looks the most likely candidate, but can see why you've asked for a second opinion - it's not as obvious as the P. tricuspidata image we removed from the Ivy article a while back. There's a pic with slightly better resolution here. I suppose the simplest thing would be to assume it's something fairly common. It's growing in Vienna, so that rules out anything that won't tolerate a Viennese winter. It's keeping very close to the brickwork, yet not always covering it in dense foliage, which suggests it's not species of Hedera that I'm familiar with (principally H. helix and H. algieriensis - though I don't think the latter would be hardy enough anyway) - plus the growth pattern of the newest shoots at the top looks wrong for those. The colour of the leaves looks right for P. tricuspidata, though the shape doesn't always look quite 3-lobed enough - maybe the leaves are still unfurling? (I see there's a leafless shrub on the roof terrace in the top left - perhaps it's early spring?) I can't think of much else which would self-cling and cover something so large, other than Hydrangea anomala subsp. petiolaris and, of course, Parthenocissus quinquefolia - but it's obviously not those, so that does suggest it's P. tricuspidata. Certainly the silhouetted profiles of the leaves down the right hand side look to be hanging in the right way. It is a bit odd that the roof in the bottom left hasn't been smothered, but of course we don't know what people might have been getting up to with secateurs..... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:10, 1 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yay!! KletterpflanzenFest!! ... although it's obviously not de:Waldreben (?) Martinevans123 (talk) 21:34, 1 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, the wonders of film! Poor Kletterpflanzen; people with secateurs should keep to themselves. So, we agree then, Dreispitzige Jungfernrebe bestimmtes möglicherweise ist, or something, aber photo probably nicht labellable ist. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 22:28, 2 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

PaleCloudedWhite, the gardener.. the gardener.. the gardener.. yes, gardener.. a lost art...Hafspajen (talk) 00:19, 4 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Chocolate box - thatched cottage

Where to find the best pictures? In the Chocolate box! Just put Chocolate box on the commons, and they will be there. Unfortunatelly not one of those Chocolate box art Chocolate boxes. A thatched cottage in the village has appeared on countless calendars and chocolate boxes over the years. Where and when was that popular to put a Cottage on the chocolate boxes? Not one box on Commons, no, only those cottages, called Chocolate box thatch and Chocolate Box Cottage. I want to se a Chocolate box with a cottage on! Now! Hafspajen (talk) 22:48, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"Cottage-le-Street" is getting longer. These are real good images. Will you chose three or five from the above for the Cottage article? Hafspajen (talk) 23:02, 6 November 2013 (UTC) Hafspajen[reply]

I like those! I'm a sucker for rural idylls. I can't decide which one I'd most like to live in - perhaps on the left, 5 rows down,* as it's relatively small, has got a good bit of garden, and looks detached (neighbours are great at a distance). As for the "chocolate box" conundrum, I think it's just a turn of phrase, and doesn't necessarily mean pictures of cottages appeared on chocolate boxes. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 23:35, 6 November 2013 (UTC) *(i.e. the 13th image, going L→R from the top left; my screen has 3 pics per line, whereas others may be different) PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 09:00, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Love the rural myself. Yes, neighbours necessarily need to complain about - your oak's leafs will blow all ower our garden, all the time. and Your Fagus sylvatica is taking away our sun, you need to take that tree down, and so on. I think I will take second row, second from left. I like big trees on my grounds. Can you see those diamond patterns on the top? I remember when I first read A Tatched Roof and Down the garden path by Beverley Nichols. I did not forgot the ~~diamond on the roof~~-stuff. I suppose you already read them, if not than you must go and get a copy imediately, on the double, right now. Gareth Griffith-Jones granddad probably had one of those chocolate boxes, in the good old times, picturing cute little cottages, no? Hafspajen (talk) 14:38, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Mmmm I certainly did, and wish I had it now to put you out of your misery.
A touch of one-upmanship: (bragging)I have five per row — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 17:22, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Listen to it ? — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 17:31, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, I know you would! ... tell me about it! How do they look like? Please, please... Did listen... nice, love them. Hafspajen (talk) 21:28, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

One of these but I keep on losing count ... — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 20:38, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Omashton village, was it?

How about this?
Delphiniums, hollyhocks and dahlias in the "cottage garden" — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 21:49, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Splendid! We need soon to do something with that Cottage article. That picure Vacation cottages (Reed houses) on Vilm near Rugia Island, Germany in the lede is just tragic!! Hafspajen (talk) 21:55, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Can't keep away from piloerection for long. — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 22:06, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oooh Gareth, I think your imagination's running wild - that pic was taken in April, so no delphiniums, hollyhocks nor dahlias visible, though there are some golden-yellow Erysimum cheiri beneath the front windows... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 22:11, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A bit of artistic licence never did me any harm in the past. I am particularly fond of wallflowers. Cheers! — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 22:23, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well, who is going to do it? Ok, than I am going to do it...Hafspajen (talk) 15:18, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think the lede pic is that bad, Hpj - it's only real fault that I can see is that the buildings aren't particularly close to the viewer. And perhaps they're a bit big for cottages. OK, that's 2 reasons to remove it - off with its head! PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 20:44, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

.Thank you not so pale PaleCloudedWhite. I would like add at least 7 or 8 of these, one in the lead, and the rest in the gallery. Wich one do you wish for in the lead? I am kind of week for Garret's picture. Hafspajen (talk) 21:20, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

My thoughts: Gareth's pic is of Anne Hathaway's Cottage, which could be listed under the "Notable cottages" section (and it has its own article, where this pic is used), so although it is very appealing, it might be better to choose an alternative here. With regards to the Gallery, currently most of the pics there illustrate cottages which have something unusual or notable about them - such as a particular construction method or style, or having been built or owned by someone notable. I'd try and continue that theme. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 09:56, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Edit summaries

Edit summaries often amuse me. I thought I'd start assembling a few of them here. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 22:08, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Nothing blue in this Blue Lagoon, thankyou!

Now it's another colour that's causing trouble...

Not a fan of Reader's Digest...

Here's one from me (out of solidarity, to show I'm enjoying the comments, not laughing at their authors).

A right pair... (These Wikipedia editors always take things so seriously...)

Who can you call when Batman's not around?

An admin comes over all unnecessary... (hooray!)

With a fried egg on top?

Better weak than never?

Typical of the Chinese; probably a limp handshake too! — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 10:24, 29 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oh I don't know, Gareth - I think limp handshakes are much maligned. I cultivate mine especially, to go with my silly walk... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 10:39, 29 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Better not tell "the neighbours"! — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 10:46, 29 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Post script:I never tire of watching that: timeless humour. Thanks! — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 10:54, 29 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Eight syllables! (Almost as long as the rest of history!)

Get back, you eager beaver!

Ah, irony pays a visit...

Hafspajen (talk) 15:17, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This one really should include the message posted to count here… — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 12:20, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, perhaps I should create a subsection for summaries which don't work on their own? There's quite a few like that. Of course, one questionable aspect of this latest addition is that it's not very unique - I gather such comments are quite the everyday occurrence at a certain altitude. Another is that it has a little too much vituperation to be wholly suitable for this little 'garden of remembrance', so I might weed it out at some point. But thankyou for getting into the spirit, G G-J. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 20:55, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

one can't beat a little fresh air and old fashioned politeness now and again, can one.

Hmm. That page has a certain SM feel about it, n'est ce pas? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 22:49, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I couldn't possibly comment. One good turn deserves another, I guess.

A much-needed clarification... (another one which works best in conjunction with the actual edit)

Ha,ha! Very funny. pleasure cruise? 'I don't think innocents abroad should be anywhere in the proximity of that den of iniquity' — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 07:08, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps you need a subsection for edit summaries concocted specially for your talk page: I've crafted one that might fit here by virtue of its possibly sufficiently obscure musical reference that can be found on a possibly sufficiently weird video (about 3:27 minutes in). Sminthopsis84 (talk) 14:37, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

wierd?? a bit corny, if you ask me... is that old jugger on the Toby there? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:53, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Don't ask me, Martin - my pc (which is probably older than you are...) refuses to give me even the slightest whiff of atmospheric vibration... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 23:09, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This fool thinks Tied islands are created through some sort of raffling process! I think he means Tombolo.[9]--Ykraps (talk) 12:25, 29 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Haha, yes Ykraps, I had noticed your one-letter redefinition of coastal processes. An easy error to make! Perhaps tombolas were used by Slartibartfast in his design methods...? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 20:31, 29 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Possibly, although I'm not sure they have either tombolo or tombola in Norway, ha-ha. I often wish edit summaries were editable (is that a word?), I have made a few sarcastic ones myself then afterwards thought them offensive.[10]

Yes, I second that - it's a bit like dropping something overboard and being helpless to retrieve it. Although if one isn't happy with a summary the first time round, it's sometimes possible to have a second attempt... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 15:47, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Matron: [Takes thermometer out of her pocket now shaped like a boomerang] That's the third one this week.
Dr James Kilmore: Well, Matron, you can still use it on people who are a bit round the bend. [11] Martinevans123 (talk) 16:00, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Dorsetshire — War bride

Dear PaleCloudedWhite,

I respect you are an erudite man, having read at Cambridge, where in my case, I did not have any tertiary education at all, moreover, I am an old man who left England many years ago. I further appreciate — and thank you for — your comment that my edit, (my additional note), to the article on Dorset, was a ‘good-faith edit’, for that it was; I assure you.

I have no right to ask, but could you consider adding some mention of the adjectival use of the word ‘Dorsetshire’ yourself. (I did cite — as is required by Wiki — several formal instances of the use of the word). You said it ‘Somewhat labours the point’ ... I can only apologise; I am clearly no writer, but then I never claimed to be.

You further stated ‘I think it's a minority usage anyway’. Again, I am an old man, but it was the way local people spoke in my own time; (I did say it was an ‘alternative’ or ‘historical’ usage; perhaps I could have said ‘traditional’ versus ‘contemporary’). Still, if it isn't the way people speak up in London, it may be better to use London as a grammatical standard for British English articles on Wiki rather than a dialect.

Unsurprisingly, I am working-class, as was my entire family back in Dorset, although I myself grew up in Wilts. & Hants. My own experience was that we called the county Dorset, but that the adjective was predominately ‘Dorsetshire’ at the time ... amongst the local working-class at least:- a ‘Dorsetshire accent’, a ‘Dorsetshire farmer’, etc., as well as the more formal examples I cited. (My grandmother, who was from Dorchester, used nothing but. I don't know that we were dead common; I should like to think simply quite common, but common nevertheless).

Devonshire has its own page, as well as a further note on the explanation, and usage contained in the Devon article. I wonder if there might be room for something terse, and better written for ‘Dorsetshire’ in the ‘Dorset’ article. I defer to your judgement.

My time is past, my contributions dated, and cancer means I am able to do precious little even if I were competent. (I envy your writing style — to say nothing of your education — and your kindness in taking the time to add a remark such as a ‘good-faith edit’. Again, I defer to your discretion in the matter entirely.

I thank you for your time, sir.

Sincerely yours, Christian Gregory

P.S. If it would not put upon you the article ‘War bride’ (minuscule ‘b’) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_bride is in desperate need of a proper if not complete revision. Should time permit, I should like to proffer it for your consideration to take on the task. (This article is of deep personal significance to me). I thank you again.

Christian Gregory (talk) 20:33, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Christian Gregory. Thankyou for your note. I think you undersell yourself when you state that you are "clearly no writer", as you have expressed yourself very eloquently.
I have several thoughts on this matter. The Dorset article only recently became a featured article, which means it has been scrutinised quite carefully to comply with certain standards, and additions should be made equally carefully so they also comply. The first sentence of the article already refers to the archaic use of "Dorsetshire", so to add immediately afterwards (plus several times through the article) text on an adjectival use of "Dorsetshire", is what led to my stating that your addition "somewhat labours the point", though please bear in mind that edit summaries are necessarily rather brief.
It may be possible to mention in the article the adjectival use of "Dorsetshire" (as indeed the use of "Devonshire" is mentioned in the Devon article), though such a mention will require a reliable source and shouldn't be given undue weight. The editor who did most of the work in bringing the Dorset article to featured article standard is Ykraps, who perhaps will have studied these matters more closely than myself, and may thus be able to advise.
On a more general note, I am interested to know if you have any personal anecdotes about life in Dorset in days gone by. Even though I grew up in Derbyshire (my own dialect is certainly not of the London style!), I have been especially interested in Dorset since the early 1980s, though I rarely have much time to visit. Were your family all from Dorchester?
As regards the War bride article, I confess that military-related subjects are not a strong point of mine, though I may be able to offer some assistance; is there anything in particular about the article which you find especially lacking?
Sincerely, PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 22:23, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I probably would have reverted your edits too, for the reasons already outlined by PCW. There is an article on West Country dialects which may interest you or perhaps you might want to create your own Dorset dialect article. Regards--Ykraps (talk) 12:06, 29 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Quercus robur

Rumskulla oak. Got that, quercus robur concordia is kind of nice, don't you think? Hafspajen (talk) 12:45, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Quercus robur 'Concordia' - yes, very fresh. So is Fagus sylvatica 'Zlatia' and, in the autumn, Gingko biloba 'Fastigiata' adopts a similar stance. As for the Rumskulla oak, do you think it can talk? -

"And in a fit of frolic mirth
She strove to span my waist:
Alas, I was so broad of girth,
I could not be embraced."
(from Tennyson's The Talking Oak)

PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 20:21, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Nice. I do think that sometimes flowers can talk... Trees i think are much more aristocratic. Old and they think we human beeings are too young and foolish. But they might tallk to special chosen people, like Lord Tennyson, or maybe a gardener? Love that ginko. Do you think this beech is available in Scandinavia?

Casting wide my gaze,
Neither flowers
Nor scarlet leaves:
A bayside hovel of reeds
In the autumn dusk.

Hafspajen (talk) 20:28, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, something for the tea room. You like your tea ceremonies, don't you Hpj? Here's another one from Fujiwara Teika:

Another year gone by
And still no spring warms my heart,
It's nothing to me
But now I am accustomed
To stare at the sky at dawn.

(Getting a bit maudlin now...)

PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 20:56, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Quercus petraea (syn. Quercus sessiliflora), the sessile oak, is a species of oak tree native to most of Europe, into Anatolia and Iran. The Sessile oak has been designated the national tree of Wales, where it is also called Welsh oak. — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 20:42, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

*Simply lovely!! You like your tea ceremonies? Answer: Yes I would like to know more about them. I am only an amateur.Hafspajen (talk) 22:46, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"I see your knuckles hard and strong,

But have no fear they'll come to blows;

Your life is long and mine is short,

But which has known the greater woes?" (1913)

(Oooh, these tramps from Newport are so poetic, aren't they? -- "The Thieving Gypsy")

This poem was mis-quoted by the KGB, in a 1991 secret message to their spy inside the FBI, Robert Hanssen.

Dear Friend:

Time is flying. As a poet said:

"What's our life,

If full of care

You have no time

To stop and stare?"

You've managed to slow down the speed of Your running life to send us a message. And we appreciate it.

Aplogies to W. H. Davies (3 July 1871 – 26 September 1940) — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 11:44, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It Don't Mean a Thing, if it ain't got that sling

Paul Laurence Dunbar:
1872–1906
Pray why are you so bare, so bare,
Oh, bough of the old oak-tree?
And why, when I go through the shade you throw,
Runs a shudder over me?
Even more maudlin now. — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 11:38, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

PaleCloudedWhite and Gareth Griffith-Jones, think Christmas, plum pudding, turkey, candles, and other fun things... Hafspajen (talk) 10:45, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

November 2013

Hello PCW, Many thanks for reverting the vandalism on my User page. Surprised there was no mention of Cissie and Ada!!!! Best regards, David. David J Johnson (talk) 14:58, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You're very welcome, David. I promise not to tell anyone else about your brief transgression. (Does your wife know about your predilection for fictional characters? One can get help for that kind of thing you know...)

PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 22:14, 26 November 2013 (UTC) [reply]

Some nice little flowers

[12][13][14]Hafspajen (talk) 15:49, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Happy Saint Lucy's Day!Hafspajen (talk) 05:26, 13 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thankyou, Hpj. I didn't know there was such a thing as Saint Lucy's Day. Does this mean you're still talking to me after our little cottagey conflagration? (blame those squirrels!) PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 07:24, 14 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Not to be confused with that other Saint Lucy, daaarhling!! Martinevans123 (talk) 10:00, 14 December 2013 (UTC) [reply]

Well of course I am talking to you, don't be silly. Why is that that nobody knows anything about what other people celebrate? But I think that if we start that conversation again, we better do it here, because I think those people made more trouble than good in this disscution. And in the end nothing happened. Hafspajen (talk) 15:55, 14 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I have a terrible suspicion, a certain feeling that even this, might be a cottage ... Hafspajen (talk) 05:46, 15 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ha, ha! Villa, schmilla. Actually anything but a cottage!
Villa noun. A country estate, chateau, country house, large house, manor, mansion, summer house, vacation home
Cheers to you both! — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 11:18, 15 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Not forgetting that "British darkly comic horror film, where two brothers kidnap the stepdaughter of an underworld crime boss and hold her for ransom in a secluded public toilet." -- yours in the fleapit, Barry Normal (talk) 11.24, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

And "Cheers!" to you, young Martin! — | GG-J | — 11:28, 15 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I like the latest hyperlinking. Buzzard, underworld crime boss — 11:38, 15 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Gonna offer ya a cottage ya can't refuse, man!

Underworld crime boss? No way! I'll have you know that Mr Gareth Jones is in fact very much on the other side of the cottage garden fence.... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 19:53, 15 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ha, ha, ha! That's very good. — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 19:58, 15 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

...and of course we all know actually that it's young Mr Evans who's dwelling in the underworld... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 20:33, 15 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oh! What's occurin'!? Is nothing sacred! Martinevans123 (talk) 20:53, 15 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, no, notanotherone. This word got the measles Hafspajen (talk) 17:28, 17 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Remarkable Gardens of France is indeed Remarkable. And slightly messy. Hafspajen (talk) 19:04, 20 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Looks really great. Like that they change the topiary shapes between two plants, taxus and what was the other. Was it beech. The Lucias are slowly and firmly pressed down into the next line. Tell me, do you have problems with boxwood in the United Kingdom and and how do you cope? Hafspajen (talk) 20:38, 20 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

According to the file description it's hornbeam (Carpinus betulus), not beech. The two do look similar when clipped. Hornbeam is frequently pleached in grand gardens. What are Lucias? As to problems with boxwood (more usually just called "box" in the UK), are you referring to box blight? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 09:08, 22 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Lucias are called all the girls who wear the outfitst above (while the boys with the top hat are called the star-boys. Yes, box blight. Our boxes are pretty badly affected and nobody knows what to do. I mean there is some treatment for fungus on roses, why not this? Hafspajen (talk) 14:51, 22 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A number of fungicides have been taken off the market, due either to environmental concerns or because the manufacturers don't consider it cost-efficient to go through all the regulatory hoops which are required these days. Benomyl was very widely used until it was found to damage unborn children. Mancozeb was/is a pretty effective preventative fungicide but has been found to be an endocrine disrupter, so is now not available to general gardeners. Even sulphur dust (useful for preventing bulbs rotting in storage) has been taken off the market due to registration costs. Professional growers have access to a greater selection of fungicides, although because fungicides may just suppress rather than destroy a pathogen, if fungicides are used instead of cultural methods of control, it can result in a widespread incidence of sub-clinical infections, which then erupt into full-blown disease after the plants have left the nurseries. Biological control is perhaps the future for long-term fungal control.
Box blight is a problem in the UK, although not one I've particularly had to deal with. All I can advise is to promptly remove any leaves and branches showing signs of possible infection, and be careful where you buy your plants. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 18:31, 22 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Doesn't sounds promising. People in Sweden worry mostly for this box-hedge, a very famous one about 4 feet high, and it was described already by Linné 1750, being just as big like today, at Vrams Gunnarstorp Castle. It is probably three hundred years old. Or four. Now it is in great danger of being killed by this shit. Hafspajen (talk) 22:04, 22 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

But don't fret, it might be just that "aviation blonde" type of topiary... Martinevans123 (talk) 22:17, 22 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Don't worry mate, if the bot wants to kiss you... it may became a princess... Or a prince. It looks like he is wearing a tuxedo. Hafspajen (talk) 23:01, 22 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It might not be complete doom and gloom. I would have thought that the owners of the hedge in Sweden would be able to employ people who can use fungicides not available off-the-shelf to the general gardener - this company claims to offer a preventative and curative spray treatment, though they don't elaborate further - presumably customers have to cough up funds first... Even amateur gardeners aren't completely defenceless - this article suggests the problem is controllable (albeit somewhat laboriously) and this page advises using copper fungicides and penconazole for partial control. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 23:07, 22 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I might start an article on this topic on the Swedish Wiki. We have much less knowledge on this topic, really. Hafspajen (talk) 19:26, 23 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Merry Christmas

Hafspajen (talk) is wishing you a Merry Christmas! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year!

Spread the cheer by adding {{subst:Xmas2}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Thankyou, Hpj! Mind you don't eat too many mince pies tonight, or you won't be able to fit down all those chimneys... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 00:11, 25 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oh Boy - To late. I hade all the stuff on Smörgåsbord, twice. Hafspajen (talk) 00:14, 25 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You'll be OK - as long as those naughty children don't light the fire heh heh!.... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 00:33, 25 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A new game...

...it's called "Identifying reliable sources". (strapline: "you can never be sure what’s true"...) PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 23:49, 9 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"a smiley welcome..."

"Home Watch Area" indeed... It's pathetic that this should make me laugh, but still... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 18:14, 16 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

".. can you see what it is yet?" Martinevans123 (talk) 21:07, 16 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Strangely, it does look a bit like him... though can't say he's got a lot to smile about at the moment... more like "can you tell where I am yet?" heh heh... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 03:29, 17 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

aww, just didgeridon't, mate.

"The latest Australian drug? - Rolfhypnol!!"

I am flummoxed ...

... by the position you are taking at the species page. Apart from the "SIP" reference you make, which I clearly do not fully understand or appreciate—How is it that one with your background can accept thousands of words of unreferenced factual and historical (and in some cases quoted) statements, without referencing? And to argue that a person should go in, post hoc, and guess at sources used by another (and, furthermore, guess at article text meaning/intent in preparation for guessing at sources)—I do not think this would ever be considered acceptable practice by the English colleagues with whom I have trained and served. Your siding with poor scholarship on this truly leaves me at a loss. Leprof 7272 (talk) 07:54, 23 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

lurcher: I am not involved in your editing dispute, but I do address Leprof 7272 on two issues here:-
(a) Wikipedia:Assume good faith
(b) you should take note of Wikipedia:No personal attacks as for -poor scholarship -... and such ...
Sincerely, Hafspajen (talk) 08:54, 23 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Nadolig hapus eto!!

Martinevans123^{Santas Grotto} wishes you and yours

"Nadolig Llawen a Blwyddyn Newydd Dda"

May the true spirit of Christmas bless you with warmth and peace once again....

(.. 'ere, Paley, I 'ad that Sandy Claws in the back of me "one-horse open cab" last week!!)

Thank 'ee koindly, zir! PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 23:54, 24 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Season's greetings

	Wishing you winter cheer where'er you go,
	a happy holiday, and wonderful new year. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 23:22, 24 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thankyou Sminthopsis84, the sentiment is of course warmly returned! (My conifer ident skills are pretty hopeless, so thought I'd have a bash at improving them: is this a Pseudotsuga species, would you say?) PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 23:50, 24 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm. Not a Pseudotsuga species, the needles aren't flat enough, and it has that stab-you-from-any-direction look to it. I hadn't thought much about it, assuming that it was Picea glauca, which I know well, but it could be some other spruce. There are some European species that try to pass themselves off as P. glauca. I'm sure it's not P. abies, and almost certain it's not P. mariana (or P. rubens). Sminthopsis84 (talk) 18:46, 25 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That's interesting. My first guess was that it's a spruce, as the shoots reminded me of P. abies, the classic Christmas tree of my childhood. But according to a little ident guide in my Forestry Commission book on conifers, Picea leaves are borne on little 'pegs', and I couldn't see evidence of them - although my scrutinising wasn't helped by the fact that I wasn't exactly sure what the 'pegs' look like, and the pic is hardly clear... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 19:12, 25 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've tried explaining that to students by saying that if you pull the leaves off, and if about 2 out of 5 of them leave a little peg behind, then it's probably a spruce. If fewer than 2 out of 5 leave a little peg behind, then it could be a fir, i.e., that if the stem is left furry, it's not a fur (oops, fir). I don't know what it is with students these days, they don't seem to concentrate hard enough on learning. (The little pegs aren't really visible except as the point where the leaf breaks off.) Sminthopsis84 (talk) 21:43, 25 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This is a decent photo of spruce sterigmata, compared to a fir. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 23:40, 25 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Machinima of Santa Claus's reindeer filmed in Second life

Imploring that PCW enjoys a sumptuous Christmas holiday and a naughty New Year! First play this → → →

Now play this!
I dare you to tell me that you did not smile.

Cheers!
— | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 01:33, 25 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thankyou Gareth. Is that you and Martin in that clip then? Which one's which? heh heh PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 10:10, 25 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Correct! That's me in front on the right. — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 10:27, 25 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oh! What's occurrin'?! How very dare you indeed. I'll have you know that Saint Cliff and me are very close! (yes, that Stevie Riks has a lot to answer for..) Martinevans123 (talk) 12:16, 25 December 2013 (UTC) someone should tell those reindeer that Santa and his presents have all fallen off...!) [reply]

Oh, is that what happened! I was expecting Santa to suddenly appear leaning over the edge, assumed he was lying down from motion sickness. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 18:46, 25 December 2013 (UTC) [reply]

Show me some naughty photos of leaf bases. Hafspajen (talk) 16:46, 26 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"Unusual" UK placenames

This one recently caught me eye. Can't think why... (bro')...Martinevans123 (talk) 19:36, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Unusual? Can we have 2 reliable sources to affirm that please? After all, some people assert that "hoe-fingring" is undertaken quite regularly... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 20:08, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that gentleman looks like he keeps the ho moving very regularly. "Fingringhoe is mentioned in Lemon Jelly's "Ramblin' Man" and is in the top 20 list of "rude names" from the book Rude Britain." Martinevans123 (talk)

Well that's all right then. Maybe he's moving regularly because he's got one of these...? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 20:24, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Wonderful education from one of the best editors (PCW) amidst the good humour and end of term fun: linking to that memorable opening scene in that wonderful film. Happy New Year, good friend! — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 22:50, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Fingringhoe features in Ramblin' Man (Lemon Jelly song) (my namesake) and is rhymed, awkwardly, with "The North Pole". Having said that, Felixstowe is also mentioned, so it's not all glam.... The Rambling Man (talk) 22:55, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Goodness me, ol' Rambler - you're like a walking gazetteer!! But I see that article needs a few dab links sorting... Martinevans123 (talk)

Yep, and I'm counting the seconds before the article becomes a redirect again. It's amateur work, but hell, we all need a little love in our lives, don't we? The Rambling Man (talk) 23:06, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This "Felix toe" looks quite glam, n'est ce pas? Not really my kind of thing, but I think everyone would agree that "the pointed toe and cut out side detailing adds a touch of moden [sic] elegance".... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 23:13, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Arh! don't mention mini kittens to Ol' Rambler ... he just gets hungry! Martinevans123 (talk) 23:20, 31 December 2013 (UTC) [reply]

I love kittens, can't manage a whole one. And yes, the revert on old Rambler has been completed by feisty dude. Oh well, shucks and all that. Funny how loads of shit songs get an article but not this one. The Rambling Man (talk) 23:25, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Happy New Year

Happy New Year!

Hope you are having a lovely time!!!! All the best for you and your Bushes! The ones who own you.

^{Hafspajen (talk) 19:37, 31 December 2013 (UTC)}[reply]

You know what they say -"A horse in the face is worth two in the bush." 20:27, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

Thankyou Hpj. Let's look forward to splendid Bushes in 2014! (Have you been at the old fermented horse feed again, Martin?) PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:00, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Can recommend this little stallion for the New's Eve "Waes Hael!" hic! Martinevans123 (talk) 21:29, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Triumvirate complete

Along with those sentiments already expressed to Gareth and Martin, this third (last but by no means least) happy new year goes to you with all good grace and best intentions. Have a great one. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:10, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thankyou very much, TRM, the sentiments are indeed returned. May 2014 be as, er, productive for you as 2013 has been (wah! wah! wah!) PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 22:40, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

and not just May, but June too, of course... Martinevans123 (talk) 22:45, 31 December 2013 (UTC) [reply]

Unreal co-operation

Just caught my eye ...
[15] — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 23:44, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Great display courtesy of Hafspajen. (Why so modest?) — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 09:21, 1 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Happy New Year PaleCloudedWhite!

Happy New Year!

Hello PaleCloudedWhite:
Thanks for all of your contributions to improve the encyclopedia for Wikipedia's readers, and have a happy and enjoyable New Year! Cheers, Northamerica1000^(talk) 06:57, 1 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year 2014}} to user talk pages with a friendly message.

Thanks, North! Very best wishes to you for 2014 too! (Mine is "in the post"!) PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 10:29, 1 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]