User talk:Nymf/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

→

Archive 5

Special characters in NHL player names

Hi, one of many debates within WP:HOCKEY surrounding this was here, though there had been quite a few. Lacking a consensus to either restrict ourselves to the English alphabet, or go the other way and open up to every special character from other languages, we agreed that North American articles would hide diacritics and special characters, while international articles would show. This effectively duplicates standard usage in North America and in Europe. Regards, Resolute 15:00, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

August 2008

Thank you for making a report about 76.117.5.88 (talk · contribs · block log) on Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism. Reporting and removing vandalism is vital to the functioning of Wikipedia and all users are encouraged to revert, warn, and report vandalism. However, it appears that the editor you reported may not have engaged in vandalism, or the user was not sufficiently or appropriately warned. Please note there is a difference between vandalism and unhelpful or misguided edits made in good faith. If they continue to vandalise after a recent final warning, please re-report it. Thank you! Toddst1 (talk) 18:45, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

RE: 76.117.5.88 - thanks for your assistance. This user has once again removed something at the Death page that they did not like, without any need to do so (referral to an interview as being a fanzine or ezine, which is correct). Also, again the user left a negative, personal message on my talk page that I've since removed. Any assistance greatly appreciated as I do not wish to engage with the user directly. Best, A Sniper (talk) 23:37, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Hejdu!

Hur mar du? ^^ Scarian^{Call me Pat!} 23:18, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Tjena. Jag mår fint. ;-) Hur står det till själv? Erzsébet Báthory_{(talk|contr.)} 22:23, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Tjena van! Jag prata lita Svenska :-( I know the rest of those words except: "står" och "mår". :-S Scarian^{Call me Pat!} 15:08, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Hehe. Mår, as in feel (I feel fine). And the next is more of a phrase, as in "How do you do then?" :-) Erzsébet Báthory_{(talk|contr.)} 15:14, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Ah, tack! Jatte bra, tack sa mycket! Where in Sweden are you from? (I don't think I'll ever be able to say that!) Scarian^{Call me Pat!} 16:15, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

ANI report

Do you realize that you're in violation of the WP:3RR too on Phil Anselmo? Toddst1 (talk) 21:17, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

I have reverted it three times, and another user one time, so no - I don't think I am. Erzsébet Báthory_{(talk|contr.)} 21:25, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

One of my reverts was partial by the way, and just after it I did the full one. Tiny mistake by me. Erzsébet Báthory_{(talk|contr.)} 21:28, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

I think you need to be more careful and more communicative:

• [1] 18:39, 13 August 2008
• [2] 13:25, 14 August 2008
• [3] 15:03, 14 August 2008
• [4] 15:45, 14 August 2008

Toddst1 (talk) 21:32, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

You are correct. I did not realise that it was 24 hours. Thank you, and I will act accordingly the next time. Erzsébet Báthory_{(talk|contr.)} 21:35, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Apostle in Triumph

I have removed the {{prod}} tag from Apostle in Triumph, which you proposed for deletion. I'm leaving this message here to notify you about it. I have nominated the article for deletion instead; the debate may be found at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Apostle in Triumph, which overrides the need for a {{prod}} tag. I have explained my reasons for doing this in my nomination. Thanks! --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 00:54, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

People can remove PROD tags - not vandalism

I have noted at User talk:Painjoiker#Proposed deletion of Apostle in Triumph that you were in error when you admonished Painjoiker that removal of the PROD tag was an act of vandalism. The WP:PROD process differs substantially from the WP:AFD process. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 00:59, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Opeth related edits

Thanks for reverting 88.91.194.20 on Ghost Reveries. I was just going to revert him. −₪ÇɨгcaғucɨҲ₪ ^kaiden 18:26, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

No problem. I noticed you did it on Deliverance. :-) Erzsébet Báthory_{(talk|contr.)} 18:28, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Tack sa mycket ocksa [5] Utan Vax (talk) 18:52, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Hello

Just dropping a hello to a fellow frequent patroller and protector of the Pink Floyd articles. Also, hoping to make peace after I disagreed with you in a discussion on the PF talk page – sorry 'bout that! :) --A Knight Who Says Ni (talk) 21:42, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

WP:MUSIC

As per Wikipedia:Notability_(music)#Criteria_for_musicians_and_ensembles,

Note that members of notable bands are redirected to the band's article, not given individual articles, unless they have demonstrated individual notability for activity independent of the band, such as solo releases. Members of two notable bands are generally notable enough for their own article.

.

As neither has demonstrated notability outside of the band Decide, they do not require separate articles. Until you can demonstrate significance aside from this project (with reliable sources), they do not meet the requirements to have an article. Cheers Nouse4aname (talk) 18:04, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I missed that last sentence about individual activity. Cheers. Erzsébet Báthory_{(talk|contr.)} 18:09, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Gear information

Hi - Wanted to question you on the removal of links to an online resource that shows what music gear various wikipedia musicians use. The information on the site you've been removing is one of the best resources in the music world to find out about these people's gear, and helps to add vital information to some of the wikipedia articles for musicians. I'm new to wikipedia and am reviewing guidlines, but I feel you are doing a diservice to the community by marking things as links spam without even visiting them.

As an example, you removed the Zakk Wylde link I added which takes you to UberProAudio, which has a page full of Zakk's music gear - exclusive to the site, along with a complete listing of gear used. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jackalslacker (talk • contribs) 19:57, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

I did visit it, but being that you have added the same website to 5 articles already, I have reasons to believe that it is promotion from your side, and therefore it would be considered spam. Please see Wikipedia:External_links#Advertising_and_conflicts_of_interest. Besides, the same information is available on Zakk's official site already. Cheers. Erzsébet Báthory_{(talk|contr.)} 20:14, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

That is true that I added to a few articles today, but that doesn't mean the material isn't relevant. And yes, you did change the link to zakk's site, however that material is lacking, and doesn't have the 20 plus pictures or in depth detail that the resource I listed has. Most musician articles are lacking gear information because it is hard to come by, unless you are a behind the scenes source like UberProAudio. Alrighty, I can't fight with you - I'm done. Readers will have to look elsewhere to get the info they need. I'm not familiar with who you are, but you must own wikipedia, so I'll take your edits as the gold standard. Off to cancel my wikipedia account. Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jackalslacker (talk • contribs) 20:41, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Still sounds like promotion from your side, and even more so now. You are free to stay or go, it is not for me to decide. This is however guidelines, and they should be followed. Erzsébet Báthory_{(talk|contr.)} 20:55, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Darkfall

Hi Elizabeth... Thanks for all your edits and reverts on Darkfall, it's nice to know there's someone out there watching over it as well :-) Mjharrison (talk) 09:36, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Hey there. No problem. :-) Been waiting for this game forever, so it's the least I can do. Erzsébet Báthory_{(talk|contr.)} 19:59, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

In Flames

Come Clarity has severe elements of metalcore, especially in the track "scream." Melodic or not, it would seem more melodeath/melocore rather than just melodeath/alt metals.72.72.195.197 (talk) 19:51, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Then please add a verifiable source for this statement, as new genres is either added this way, or by a consensus on the talk page. Thanks. Erzsébet Báthory_{(talk|contr.)} 19:57, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Interview with Kevin Dubrow

Elizabeth ,

What is up with removing the link to the Kevin Dubrow interview with Podshow Radio? That is one of Kevin's last audio interviews. There are other links to interviews with Quite Riot members in this article as well, why did you fill this one was a spam link? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.173.121.230 (talk) 02:02, 2008 September 9

Hello there. Please see WP:External_links#Advertising_and_conflicts_of_interest, as it should explain it rather well. Erzsébet Báthory_{(talk|contr.)} 23:34, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Interview Links

Elizabeth,

Please read the below guideline to adding external links to a article. This link is not promoting a website it is a legitimate audio interview done last year with Kevin Dubrow.

Articles about any organization, person, web site, or other entity should link to the official site, if any. An article about a book, a musical score, or some other media should link to a site hosting a copy of the work if none of the "Links normally to be avoided" criteria apply. Sites that contain neutral and accurate material that cannot be integrated into the Wikipedia article due to copyright issues, amount of detail (such as professional athlete statistics, movie or television credits, interview transcripts, or online textbooks) or other reasons. Sites with other meaningful, relevant content that is not suitable for inclusion in an article, such as reviews and interviews. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Psr214 (talk • contribs)

Hello again. Please don't forget to sign your talk page comments with four tildes. You have been trying to push links to this site on 20 articles. I think it is pretty safe to say that this is your site, and as Wikipedia is not meant as a tool of promotion, nor is it a collection of links, your links has to be treated as spam. External_links#Advertising_and_conflicts_of_interest really explains it all. Erzsébet Báthory_{(talk|contr.)} 12:13, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Got your note

I will contact an admin buddy to intervene on the user. Thanks for the heads up. PS... you are a very good editor.... keep of the diligent effort to uncruft heavy metal articles. Cheers!! The Real Libs-speak politely 17:16, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Pink Floyd date range

Hi Elizabeth. You and I have been making many reverts to attempts to change Pink Floyd's "years of activity" in the infobox and article. You have been catching most of the attempts to change the start date from 1964 to 1965, and I've been in agreement because I thought consensus was reached for that. But looking at the talk page section, Talk:Pink Floyd#Pink Floyd's year of formation, the opposite appears to be true, consensus is for 1965. I think this needs to be addressed if we are to continue reverting. We should provide a good reason for making it 1964 on the talk page. Either that, or agree that 1965 is correct. Any thoughts? --A Knight Who Says Ni (talk) 20:19, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Oh. You are right. I figured that 1964 was the consensus, since it was in the section header of the Syd Barrett lead era, and all. They do make a valid point about the fact that former Sigma 6 members can't be considered a part of Pink Floyd, however, so I will settle with that agreement. In my defense, I probably wouldn't have made any reverts if they would have bothered to state this using the summary box. :-) Erzsébet Báthory_{(talk|contr.)} 20:39, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

I'll give an amen on that. It will be tricky making the personnel list match the infobox. Have a look at the change and see if this will fly. --A Knight Who Says Ni (talk) 21:01, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Den Saakaldte

A proposed deletion template has been added to the article Den Saakaldte, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice should explain why (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised because even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. Rettetast (talk) 07:27, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Greetings

I am a semi-retired user. I once made many edits every day but not only get one once in a long while. I happened to notice you talking to a user when I went to that user's talk page. Your contributions are impressive. Not to mention you seem to actually know your shit when it comes to black metal. Transilvanian Hunger is great. Not to mention your name is pretty killer. I would like to invite you to the Wikipedia:WikiProject Black Metal. You could be of great help there and both you and the project would most likely mutually benefit. At the project we strive to standardize and improve black metal-related articles. You can keep editing anything else you want to, of course, but at the project you would be able to see and discuss more about different issues/problems arising with black metal-related articles. Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 17:17, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Please i need an english mentor

Where is the site, i can look around and change a wiki mentor in english for myself ? Thanks for your answers and help - best wishes --CologneGer (talk) 15:45, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism?

You send me a message telling me that I wrote "vandalism". It seems that you are misusing this term. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mykk (talk • contribs) 15:06, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

No, I did not misuse the term. Please re-read the guidelines. This is hardly a constructive edit. Erzsébet Báthory_{(talk|contr.)} 16:08, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

links

Hi Elisabeth, i got your message. Sorry if i but you to work undoing all the links i added. By the time i aw your message i was already at the N. Anyway, i like to make sure that i didn't mean any harm by adding them and was mere considering that people liking this music would like to visit a fan site. As we state on our website we do not have any commercial interest.

Besides that you also deleted our link from the subject Europop. I can understand why you deleted us in the artistssection but on the subject of Europop our website gives background information on the subject of cultural diversity. Is it possible the link to our site can be replaced in that section? Please advice.

Kind regards —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bnbass (talk • contribs) 11:42, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Hey. No worries. You can bring it up at the Europop talk page, and see what they think. Cheers. Erzsébet Báthory_{(talk|contr.)} 11:50, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

OK, i did as you suggested, let's see what happens. Any idea if it is ever possible if our URL can be added again to the links. Should people petition you? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bnbass (talk • contribs) 13:28, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

burzum

Don't you agree that adding the year of the "on hold" status is necessary ? --Dexter_prog (talk • contribs • count) @ 18:33, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Dido Discography

I just went to the Dido page to insert a template, suggesting that the tables in the discography be merged into the Dido discography page (which is maintained to a high standard). Lo and behold, somebody has deleted the tables and you have put in a list of albums. Job done! I did not realise what I could achieve using the power of thought. Seriously though, the Dido article looks much better now. Labalius (talk) 21:57, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

German knowledges

Today i ve read at your user page, that you also have basic german knowledges - that s fine - hooray ! - maybe you will be my mentor ? - i don´t make you much work !!! cause i will take only less articles in english - it is still to difficult for me, so i will write articles SLOWLY :-) - Thankyou very much if you want to help me ! and best wishes from Cologne --CologneGer (talk) 18:05, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Question

Hello Elizabeth Bathory, I noticed that you do quite a bit of vandal-reverting. Would you like me to grant your account rollback rights for you to use alongside your current vandal-fighting tools? Tell me what you think. Thanks. Acalamari 17:18, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Rollback granted. :) Just remember that it should be used to revert vandalism, and that misuse of the tool, either by reverting good-faith edits or revert-warring can lead to its removal. Wikipedia:New admin school/Rollback has a bit more information on the tool, and a place to practice it if necessary. Good luck. Acalamari 17:29, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Cheryl Chapman

Hi Elizabeth,

please can you look at my first article i made today and correct, so it should be !?! - thank you very much and best wishes ! --CologneGer (talk) 09:31, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Dido's Birth Name

As somebody who often contributes to the Dido article, I would welcome your response to a suggestion that I have made in a new thread: Biography, Real Name and Birth Name. I have already implemented the suggestion in the main article. Thanks, Labalius (talk) 16:07, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Natalie Portman

I removed the external link and, as I noted, I did not know it was a violation. However, there is nothing in my entries that are a violation of terms. Please stop deleting them. Liam2012 (talk) 18:22, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Rex Brown commons image

Hi, you have deleted a flickr image that has been notified by the FlickreviewR program to be creative commons valid, and ok for commons. Just to make sure (it was my first flickr upload), was the reason for revision that it was not reviewed by that time? If so, is it ok if I add the image to the article? You can find the image here: [6] Fileri (talk) 16:04, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

I think an admin needs to be contacted

MetalKammandunt's single purpose account is becoming quite a bother. I am going to contact an admin friend and see if he can't be given a vacation. You help with some of the trouble makers. The edit history of the articles he hawks clearly show a view opposite to his. His POV is getting the best of him. Can you monitor until I have someone deal with him. It's possible to have just the article he trolls locked so that he can't delete anything any more. But that is a bit extreme. Another block should cool him off a little. The Real Libs-speak politely 13:21, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

The person(s) he is fighting with is one the same though, editing from different IPs, trying to make it look like there is a consensus to keep the unsourced addition. 165.228.57.135, 165.228.201.20, 81.178.36.21, 99.251.226.121, 82.69.8.81, 82.69.68.47, 217.40.128.181, 202.174.177.43 is all one user. Look at the edit history, the wording and the incorrect use of the abbreviation rvv.

I don't think it will stop until both of them are blocked, or the articles are locked (like the main article). Erzsébet Báthory_{(talk|contr.)} 13:45, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

actually.... if you use geobytes to look up those anons up they are all from different cities. Some from England, some from Wales, some from Australia, some from New Zealand. Even a noble Cnanadian IP for out on the west coast. ( I am a Canuck and edit from IP 156.34.142.110 :-D ) way back in the history of those pages reverting MetalKommandunt's pov. I had an admin buddy do a check on them all and they are all unrelated to each other or to any accounts on Wikipedia. Another warning has been issued to MetalKommandunce so he is on thin ice. I've been a regular editor on Wiki for over 4 years. Metal_K needs to learn what so many people have trouble with on Wikipedia.... that personal opinions should not come into play. Consensus always wins in the end. The Real Libs-speak politely 14:26, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

I thought so too at first, but then I had a look at the edits. Here's what I gathered.

165.228.57.135 (AU) - City = Brisbane

descr: Telstra Internet

Megadeth.

165.228.201.20 (AU) - City = Melbourne

descr: Telstra Internet

Megadeth and articles related to Metallica's Death Magnetic.

202.174.177.43 (AU) - City = Sydney

netname: DTSAUS

Megadeth.

POV on glam metal in various articles.

81.178.36.21 (UK) - City = London

address: Pipex Internet

Megadeth.

POV on glam metal in various articles.

82.69.8.81 (UK)

descr: Zen Internet Ltd

Megadeth and articles related to Metallica's Death Magnetic.

82.69.68.47 (UK)

descr: Zen Internet Ltd

Megadeth and articles related to Metallica's Death Magnetic.

POV on glam metal in various articles.

217.40.128.181 (UK)

descr: BT Public Internet Service

Megadeth and articles related to Metallica's Death Magnetic.

POV on glam metal in various articles.

Warring on line breaks.

99.251.226.121 (CA)

OrgName: Rogers Cable Communications Inc.

Megadeth and articles related to Metallica's Death Magnetic.

POV on glam metal in various articles.

Warring on line breaks.

The edits are too similar to be different persons. My guess would be that the person in question are using proxies. I agree with you on this Metal K guy though. Erzsébet Báthory_{(talk|contr.)} 15:41, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Filled in a couple of more specific blanks for cities. Wiki has a blocking bot for all public proxies and floating IP tanks. These appear static and registered to various legit businesses... just as an FYI for you. PS. The 99.X troll that edits all the Pantera related pages didn't get the same length of block as they did the last time so they will be back a lot sooner than we would have hoped. My activity on Wiki for the next few weeks will be sporadic (just daytime checking in) If you see the 99.X troll back in action just ask Scarian or East718 or Knowledge of Self or Wiki alf or Rodhullandemu for help and tell them I sent you. The Real Libs-speak politely 15:55, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Lets not speak of the devil. ;-) Thanks for the heads up, I will keep an eye out for him. Enjoy your break. Cheers. Erzsébet Báthory_{(talk|contr.)} 16:03, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

The way I read the rules, that if an edit with no source is reverted, it should go to the talk page for debate. This isn't just "the greater good for the greater number of people".

Man, and I'm the one on personal attacks. Thanks, Wiki Libs, for emphasizing a double standard. =) -MetalKommandant (talk) 15:16, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Here's an IP to add to that list (Alberta, Canada)... 24.67.64.107 -MetalKommandant (talk) 22:57, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Death Magnetic needs to have weeks at #1's in other countries listed like U2

I think it is important to show the weeks that Metallica's Death Magnetic is #1 in several countries. Why does it keep gettng erased. It is important information that should be shared. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kristoffer7 (talk • contribs) 02:33, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Facts of TV show roles/characters issues is worthy of inclusion on Wikipedia

Technically imdb.com and other actoring information web pages should list both "Claire Bennet" and "Claire Burnett" as played by Hayden because within the show her character's adoptive father changed her name to "Claire Burnett" in an attempt to hide her role/character from the "bad persons". Is Hayden Panettiere a lordess Voldemort or a sith or neither or both and the situations is complicated? 29 dot 21 dot 87 dot 7 (talk) 23:22, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Hello again Elizabeth, someone attempted to censor an additional discussion message I posted here that asked you some tough additional questions about your apparently errant actions on the Hayden Panettiere article, please respond on my discussion page until Arthur calms down, you can find that additional message to you here. Arthur and others+ seem to be addicted to citing and misinterpreting Wikipedia policies and utilizing them in attempts at obfuscation and misdirection and censorship. 29 dot 21 dot 87 dot 7 (talk) 20:20, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

RE: Gaahl edit

Although the wikilink was unnecessary, I felt that sentence was valid; despite lacking a wikipedia article Trelldom - the band Gaahl founded and directs - is a very notable band and they have been well known in various Norwegian circles. Furthermore, I have reviewed the sentence and there is no incorrect use of grammar. Thank you. Dark Prime (talk) 23:52, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Music Reviews and rates published on Antennaria

You removed links to professional music reviews published on Antennaria for 9 albums today. Some of them are quite rare and are the only ones existing on the whole internet. I seriously doubt the community will benefit from those links being removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aulis2003 (talk • contribs) 20:21, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Hello again. The intent was not to promote any particular web resource, I'm registered on Wikipedia for years and don't do that. I created several pages for popular and demanded records and added rates and reviews that cover these records: Self-Portrait and Progress and Perfection. Being a neutral editor, do you mind rolling those pages back to my original versions? Those rates and reviews seem to be one of the really few on the internet. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aulis2003 (talk • contribs) 22:17, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Cheryl Chapman

I ve seen today that Cheryl and the article about s erased ! Why? and what´s the reason? Pls help me and give me answers - Thankyou for your looking about before he s erased - best wishes from Cologne --CologneGer (talk) 13:06, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

RE: Reverting my edit on the Darkthrone page.

In the infobox, it says that they formed in 1988. However, the page belongs to the category of musical groups established in 1986. I was confused about that, so I did some research and decided to perform the edit of which you reverted. If the infobox says they formed in 1988, but yet they belong to a category of musical groups established of a different year, I think something should be done about that to avoid confusion. Do you have anything to say about this suggestion?

On an unrelated circumstance, it just so seems that I'm watching a television program about female serial killers, which featured Elizabeth Bathory as one of those people.

BT^C 06:15, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Stay diligent

I used to know a few admins who could get a link blacklisted but they are all on Wiki-break. Stay diligent. I will watch as many as I can. The Real Libs-speak politely 17:21, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Lord Ahriman and Dead images

I changed the filename on the Lord Ahriman to that which's on the commons (Ftgryvb5a.jpg, uploaded by Fallengrademen). I'm not sure how to go about the Dead version, as the Mayhem site wasn't working that well when I tried going on it, so I just fetched it through Google Images. Dark Prime (talk) 14:26, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

FYI: RFCU

Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/Alexandrababelove is probably worth putting on your watchlist.—Kww(talk) 19:33, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Untouchable(Vanessa Hudgens Album)

While I was on prod patrol, I saw this article with has a prod tag (attributed to you). In the template I noticed that you asserted that the originator of the article created it as a "sock puppeteer previously blocked", but I see no indication of that, either in the contribution list of the credited editor or in the block log (which for the time being is clean). Has there been a checkuser on this individual? If it confirms that it is a sockpuppet, the editor's talk page could show it and this article can be speedied. B.Wind (talk) 18:35, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

I was here for the same reason. Who do you think this is, and why? It's much easier to kill the article if we know.—Kww(talk) 18:39, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Hey there. Not this particular user, as she keeps creating new users, but the previous case submitted can be viewed here. There is no question that it's the same user, as they've both created crystal albums related to this artist, Lindsay Lohan, Ali Lohan, Hayden Panettiere, etc. In the same fashion with broken English, errors in the template, etc aswell. Erzsébet Báthory_{(talk|contr.)} 18:44, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

hi, i think i have a valid reason. I have listened various atmospheric sludge bands and i don't see any southern rock influence, another thing it's that some bands of sludge use elements of southern rock, but not all of the called "sludge metal" bands do so (sorry for my english, I'm from Spain) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.220.73.248 (talk) 01:01, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Transilvanian Hunger edit

I thought "Slottet" was "the palace"? Dark Prime (talk) 16:43, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

It isn't. Castle is a more accurate translation. Palace would be "palass". Erzsébet Báthory_{(talk|contr.)} 17:02, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Your name

Your name is terrible. For me it's worse than "Adolf Hitler". Change it, please. 87.70.229.174 (talk) 09:54, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

I Have Faith In You No More

The years active for Faith No More are as I had them 1982-1998. Yes, they are doing a reunion tour in Europe and that is why I added in small writing (reunion 2009) to acknowledge that they had in fact announced reforming for the European tour. But the last time I looked, that was the only "proven-to-be-definite" announcement.

The biggest problem with your edits, is that on Wikipedia, we can only base information on what has been confirmed. Simply saying "there is talk about a US tour" means nothing if it is merely an assumption. On Wikipedia, we cannot simply go by assumptions. The only time we can act on what we've heard is if it has been proven by a TRUSTED SOURCE. Do you have a reference that GUARENTEES a US tour (a reference that mentions rumours is not good enough) because otherwise, you are to revert back to my edits.

Please either provide a reference, revert back to my edits or I may request involvement from an Administrator. --Sky Attacker (talk) 20:58, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Assuming that this is a one-time reunion would need a source as well, stating this exact thing. Otherwise you'd be drawing conclusions, which is not very neutral. For now a reunion has been announced, which the article reflects without drawing any conclusions. Erzsébet Báthory_{(talk|contr.)} 21:14, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

I know we're supposed to assume good faith on Wikipedia, but you come across as someone that likes to create inconvenience for other users on purpose. You seem to someone who enjoys frustrating innocent editors for no good reason, but I'll let you have your fun and let it be. By the way, Faith No More is my personal favorite band so one thing that is factual and coming from the best source possible, is that if they do confirm a US tour, I'll be the first to buy a ticket. --Sky Attacker (talk) 21:28, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

All I have to say is...

if you earned that.... then you must be one hell of an excellent editor :-D Hilarious! If he keeps it up I will try to have an anchor hung onto the account and his IP too. As always... keep up the good work! The Real Libs-speak politely 12:43, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Good catch on the picture pirate

Sneaky. Good that you caught the sock similarities as well. I thought I would let you know about this list See link It is an oft referred to page where users can add new genre troll that they cross paths with and admins check it every now and then to see which accounts/IPs are still active and revert them. I just added Albert Mond to the list. Feel free to add anyone you come across who fits the bill. Just note that Wiki libs invited you to use the list in your first edit summary. The Real Libs-speak politely 11:11, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, Libsy. :-) Sadly bureaucratics deemed the evidence as "inconclusive", which is just ridicilous really. I'll keep that link in mind. Cheers. Erzsébet Báthory_{(talk|contr.)} 22:54, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Vikings

Do we have a consensus on whether "Viking" should be capitalised ot not? I was under the impression that as a proper noun it should be, but am prepared to go with consensus. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 11:35, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

I am aware of no consensus. I was under the impression that as it doesn't describe an origin, such as "Scandinavian death metal", but just rather the style that it is played in, i.e. as an adjective, it wouldn't be capitalized. Feel free to correct or revert my edit though, as I could just as well be wrong. :-) Erzsébet Báthory_{(talk|contr.)} 12:47, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

I think it should be capitalized as a proper noun--and it does look kind of strange in lower case. If you'll pardon me for butting in, that is! Drmies (talk) 01:53, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

adding links to reviews

Hi Elizabeth, we were in contact before and i was wondering if you could advice me on the following. In the link-guidelines there is a rule that says: "For albums, movies, books, and other creative works, links to professional reviews can be considered to add."

We review new albums on our website and i was wondering of it was allowed to add a link on the relevant artistpage to the review. for instance http://www.europopmusic.eu/Reviews/ReviewsQ2_09.html#review_LungoLaStrada

We're keeping the reviews on archive so they wont disappear in the future. Just let me know if it is allowed, better safe then sorry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bnbass (talk • contribs) 15:46, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

About the Editwar

I thought it might be helpful for both of us if we simply talk about that. I'm opened to criticism just tell me what is the reason you're reverting the page, if you think something i wrote is unnecessary please just make it clear.--E0728042 (talk) 19:29, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

I understand your opinion about what he eats, drinks or what his favorite song is, and i agree, but if you would analyse my last edit you would also see that i heard you out and i erased the part about what he eats,drinks or whatever, i think the last changes that i've made about the page is all necessary information and has references, i hope you thought the same and that's why you didnt revert the last edit that i've made. If you still think any of my edits is unnecessary i would like to hear you out.--E0728042 (talk) 00:10, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Oh ok im sry. I duno y i do it. Thnx 4 fixin it but plez theres a lot of things that need to b mentioned & it shudn't b erased. If ur goin to fix my grammer, make sure its only that.--99.230.71.40 (talk) 19:01, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

For your actions in keeping Wikipedia free of amateur fanspam

		The Anti-Spam Barnstar
		A token of appreciation for your efforts in keeping Wikipedia free of low quality amateur fanspam like Metal-observer.com. Keep up the good work. The Real Libs-speak politely 14:00, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Scarlett Johansson GAR notification

Scarlett Johansson has been nominated for a good article reassessment. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to good article quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status will be removed from the article. Reviewers' concerns are here.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 20:49, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Sockpuppets on the Johnny Prill AfD.

I have reported this to an admin. If you have a chance could you keep an eye on this genre trolling account. Just another same-ol-same-ol genre troll but since he is not English he doesn't understand why he is being warned or why he will be blocked for 3RR if he continues. The Real Libs-speak politely 13:24, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks bud. I'll keep an eye on him. These trolls are starting to go on my nerves, especially the one trolling all the Down related articles for weeks and weeks, but never gets banned. Erzsébet Báthory_{(talk|contr.)} 17:02, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Hey

Just letting you know that I'm around in case you need anything. Enigma^msg 23:01, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Scarlett Johansson

Thanks for keeping an eye on this article and keeping it sound. [7] I see you were notified about the GAR for it, and it wasn't going to pass, so I spent about 3 weeks expanding it and bringing it up to 2009 GA criteria and I'm happy to say it was renewed not long ago. I would just love to keep it from slipping. Thanks for your efforts there and the ones I see you making on other articles. Wildhartlivie (talk) 01:19, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

List of singer-songwriters

In cleaning up the List of Singer-Songwriters over the past few months, I've pretty much stuck by the definition you've outlined, but with some reservations that you seem to share. For example, two of the three artists you cited, Dylan and Young, haven't performed either solo or acoustic for decades. In fact, if we were to limit the list to strictly solo, acoustic-playing songwriters, what we'd have is a list of folk singers, many of whom would have to be eliminated as well because so few artists perfom - and even fewer, record - unaccompanied. I realize we could quibble more about that, but rather than rely on opinion, I've turned to Allmusic and other sources as guides.

Allmusic applies the term judiciously, usually identifying artists as singer-songwriters either at the start of their biographies or in the Styles lists that accompany the artists' pages. It also makes the distinction of separating non-S/S's from the real deal by using other terms, such as "singer" and "recording artist." Speaking strictly of the U.S. "traditional" list, I've checked about 90 percent of the artists against Allmusic, and the remainder against their Wikipedia articles and miscellaneous Internet sources. A few entries still need to reviewed, and I'm not claiming that what's here is error-proof, but at this point, the list is in considerably better shape than it's ever been, and it won't take much more work to complete what I've started.

As for the "other" U.S. list, I've moved a fair number of artists into this category from the main list and also removed a similar number who don't belong in either category. I haven't done a full sweep of the "other" artists and recognize that this category is problematic in terms of lacking more definitive criteria. For example, Allmusic doesn't use the term singer-songwriter with either Stevie Wonder or Johnny Cash, but does use it indirectly with Garth Brooks and Bruce Springsteen, yet all are highly notable singers and songwriters within their given genres, and hence their inclusion on this more liberally construed list. Also, there are several artists here that, in my opinion and Allmusic's, belong in the main category, for example, Tori Amos, Norah Jones and Ben Folds, and I intend to move them there shortly.

None of the above addresses the issues I raised. The questions are: Is an "expert" needed for this article and are citations needed to verify the inclusion of artists? My response is that I've brought a slew of expert sources into the vetting via Allmusic and other publications, including Rolling Stone, Crawdaddy, NME, etc. It's just that I don't see the point in doubling the length of the article by linking hundreds of artists to their Allmusic pages or similar articles elsewhere. And I say that as an unwavering champion of citations (check my contributions). As for "experts", if one is needed here, then every Wikipedia article should have one. Just for one broad example, most artists both of us would object to as being described as singer-songwriters are characterized as exactly that in the openings of their Wikipedia pages and without any citations to back up these claims. Allreet (talk) 02:55, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Hi, Elizabeth. I've added a more succinct response to your comments on my talk page. Upon further reflection, I believe our major differences come down to what I think is a very serious issue: the definition given on the S/S list page. This is extremely narrowly construed, and essentially an editor simply made it up in trying to be helpful. However, no major, contemporaneous source could possibly agree with it; otherwise, S/S as a category would pretty much be frozen in time, that is, roughly in the period 1962-72. Looking forward to hearing from you. Allreet (talk) 15:15, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Me again. I'm looking for support on the idea of breaking out the US singer-songwriter list from the main article. The US list is already a few hundred or so artists in length, and I'm completely willing to source every artist in the list, but not in the main article because there's no possible way to vet the sections on foreign countries and the article is already too long to accommodate a list of references of equal length. I believe the same should also be done with the UK list and for the same reasons. In both cases, I believe it would be a great improvement and would easily satisfy the sentiments behind the templates on the main article. Of course, I'd also seek support from other editors, but since you've already shown an interest in this and related subjects, I thought it wouldn't hurt to get your feedback. Thanks. Allreet (talk) 02:41, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Opeth discography

Please change the lead at either Opeth Discography, or Opeth. They are contradictory. Also, Progressive metal alludes to heavy metal. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 18:30, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

No worries, it has already been done. Erzsébet Báthory_{(talk|contr.)} 18:33, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

FYI

Mr. Solino has been listed at The Genre Troll reporting list for a very long time. He took a bit of a hiatus. But has returned. Still a single purpose account. A soon-to-be-blocked account. The Real Libs-speak politely 13:35, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

A favor

Greetings, E- I am the person who added the infobox, photo, and additional overlinks and needed links (just a couple) to the article for Terry Reid. I seek out photographs for biography articles that need them. I'm not a new editor; but I have a request. There are a handful of images that I've been searching for over 2 years to find. A pro photographer has a choice of selling two of those I've been looking for- (a Rolling Stones-period photo of Mick Taylor, and another of Gram Parsons), as well as many more vintage photos of the members of the Stones, The Kinks, and more in a book deal, or, changing their status through Creative Commons for use on the Wikipedia. She isn't familiar with the Wikipedia and is really wary, because of the photos' value. We keep the photographer's attribution in many biography articles in the caption, (esp. in Start-ranked pages), so PLEASE leave her name in the caption on the Terry Reid aricle, just for the next few days or so. When I can reach her and show that all the info is there by clicking the photo, it will be OK, but she's traveling, and there's no email contact but the last one today saying I forgot to place her link back, but she's gone now, and won't be using email for the next week. This was a test case to earn her trust. I don't want her to think we stole her property under some false pretense- esp. while she is changing from copyright now on the other photos. Please. I've been requesting -and uploaded hundreds of photos, check my userpage if you don't believe it, but I don't want to loose her trust, and this chance. Please understand. Thanks. --Leahtwosaints (talk) 11:43, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Oh, okay. Thanks for letting me know. No worries. You can readd it. I must say that I was pleasantly surprised when the photo turned up. Erzsébet Báthory_{(talk|contr.)} 12:11, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

A loving thanks! Yes, you know how we all end up checking links to other pages to see if they're proper? When I surf into another biography page as I did with Terry Reid, if I notice a missing infobox or photo, I try to find a photo, and then add an infobox. To populate the infobox, I must read through the article, so often I do some cleanup (some pages it's so major, it's just amazing). Since Reid's page was so tidy, I over-wikified, having expected another mess! I'm happy that the photo is OK with you! I'm really hoping the same photographer will allow photos I mentioned, and a good one of John Bonham so the publicity photo in his infobox that isn't BY-SA or GDFL can be removed. We really, really need Mick Taylor and Gram Parsons, too. Thanks again! --Leahtwosaints (talk) 22:24, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

My song pages

Why are the pages I made getting nominated for deletion? "Doctor Please" and "Tattoo Vampire are notable, rest assured. "Doctor Please" deals with songwriter, Dickie Peterson's drug problems and "Tattoo Vampire" was covered by White Zombie. Where do I go to help keep these pages?Rockgenre (talk)Rockgenre 03:39, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Opening paragraph

See Linda Lee Cadwell, her ethnicity was mentioned in the opening sentences. It should be apply to Brandon and Shannon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by PS6789 (talk • contribs) 15:40, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Please also consider posting a list of reasons that support your side of the argument. Thanks !!! PS6789 (talk) 15:54, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Article Sarah Michelle Gellar

Can not stand more, mature, and do something else besides, he seems much better as this my edits his, and I have spent more than two times with you in the articles Lucy Liu Valentine's Day (film), if you want to win a lock for it, change your attitude and not take over the pages that are not yours, understood. SMG055 (talk) 00:47, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

To SMG055 - Nobody "owns" pages on Wikipedia. Please read the rules and guidelines! Emma white20 (talk) 21:13, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Re: Above article

I had started to clean up that edit and double check the links when you reverted it before. The style is all wrong and I haven't check the episode names for accuracy. If the episode names are correct, it's really more informative to the reader than episode numbers, so let me check this a little later and if it's accurate, I think it could remain. I'm not sure what to make of the message above, though! Wildhartlivie (talk) 01:59, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Amerie DOB

Hi. I see what you pointed out to me on the discussion page. Per this article DC's Own Georgetown Alum Amerie In Her Hoya 2000 Yearbook

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/washingtonpost/access/989617621.html?FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&date=Feb+19%2C+2006&author=The+Reliable+Source&pub=The+Washington+Post&edition=&startpage=D.03&desc=The+Reliable+Source

she was born in 1978. Once must have a premium subscription to view the info (the WP posted her yearbook info). I will try to do a screencap (i have a subscription)of the article & pics & yearbook info. 70.108.85.24 (talk) 20:44, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Hey. I saw your post at the talk page of the article too. Looking forward to seeing the caps. Cheers, and thanks. Erzsébet Báthory_{(talk|contr.)} 20:46, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Aion, DPS vs DD

Other sections of this article use DPS, not DD. DPS is used in game as well, and is noted on the Damage_per_second article has having a noun usage within MMORPGs. I reverted the edit from DD to DPS because of the inconsistency and the lack of usage for the term "DD" within the game. Also, the gladiator class has a focus on AoE damage, in response to your edit reason of DD = Direct Damage. The user who originally made the edit from DPS to DD meant DD as "Damage Dealer". ferret (talk) 14:38, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Fair enough. I believe the 2nd case would need a rewrite though, as it mentions DPS and then immediately afterwards AoE, as if it is something different. Erzsébet Báthory_{(talk|contr.)} 16:28, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

I feel the whole class section needs a rewrite, the difference between "Special ability" and "Play style" is unclear, and for some classes identical or lacking. I'll have to give thought to it. I've tweaked the gladiator section to be clearer, I hope. ferret (talk) 16:45, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Info boxes

Elizabeth, saw your message about info boxes. This appears to be a valid protocal for, for example, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Apple <=== This is the source of my "lift". Please advise, and thanks in advance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.14.129.101 (talk) 21:56, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Will you ever read a source?

You keep reverting everything I do and call me a "troll". Did you even read the source on the funk rock page? Obviously not because Extreme were not mentioned in the quote. Next time please read.Rockgenre (talk) 19:13, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

The Budgie thing was just meant to be a more little specific. However you reverted the edit on the funk rock page which added false info on Extreme, who were NOT in the quote. Can you actually read the source next time, educate yourself, and don't put false information in the article.Rockgenre (talk) 21:27, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

A quick thank you

Thank you for keeping the Black Gives Way to Blue article stable by reverting unsourced input etc. It is much appreciated.--Sky Attacker Here comes the bird! 05:20, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Xtinadbest

I'll keep an eye on Obsessivemisslittle. If it goes active again, I'll report. As for PokerFace3, I understand your suspicions, but I doubt it. I'll bet he's just a fellow Icelandic editor. The overlap with Xtinadbest is actually quite small, focusing on Icelandic accomplishments in the music field. All of the other articles of interest are substantially different, and a few of the articles that I use as indicators (such as Radar (Britney Spears song)) have been completely untouched.—Kww(talk) 21:51, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Go for it. I used the usercompare tool to map PokerFace3 against all known Xtinadbest socks, and that's how I came to the conclusion I did: only five overlapping articles. A different set of eyes running a different analysis is always welcome.—Kww(talk) 15:59, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Don't know if you noticed the latest pass, but Obsessivemisslittle and a few more have been blocked. When you are running your big analysis, you might want to keep Tara Eckersburg in mind, too. Something there makes me suspicious.—Kww(talk) 21:25, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

October 2009

		The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar
		For continued vigilance and courage in defense of NPOV at the Death metal page. Keep up the good work! A Sniper (talk) 02:32, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Image

Hey, look at forgiveness for my edits reverted but I really want to change the image of the article and shows that you have experience with it, you could upload an image to commons by Lucy Liu. Gellar55 (talk) 17:43, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

re: Sock

I saw the sock case here after I noticed, most interestingly, that this editor added a film poster to a film here, that was oddly uploaded by yet another Gellar editor, Saa19952. Why would they swiftly close the SPI when one of the accounts was blocked in October and you've given evidence that another account is likely the same person? Maybe a checkuser request for all these names? Wildhartlivie (talk) 21:27, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Evening. The user who closed the case just misunderstood, thinking that the original blocked user was the actual sock. I reopened the case here and actually included the user you just mentioned. It's a pretty solid case, I think, but if you can add anything, feel free. :-) Erzsébet Báthory_{(talk|contr.)} 21:33, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

The really interesting part of all of this is that another editor has been complaining to me about Saa19952 and suspected sock puppetry, and was trying to push me into filing a case, although I had none of the evidence. Then I noticed the edits that I added to the case yesterday, which fairly confirmed to me that Saa19952 and Gellar55 were the same person. I've tried to stay out of sock cases lately, but you're right, it's a duck. Let me know how it turns out. Wildhartlivie (talk) 10:06, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

I saw that Gellar55 had been blocked because I'd posted to his talk page on other things. I had also noticed Garden50, but the truth is, I was just too tired to go look. The editor who was complaining about him is Garda40, but it seems that all mentioned were IPs. The discussion was at Talk:Sarah Michelle Gellar#The editing war continues. Good work, in any case! Wildhartlivie (talk) 15:45, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Buckley personality

Can you please fix the personality section rather than deleting the whole thing? What I'm trying to fix is that you have no sense of the guy from the article. I know that wikipedia is supposed to be dry and disembodied, so I'm going by Louis Armstrong (which has a section on personality) and John Lennon (section on humor) as models.Ratethatvoiceterms (talk) 17:08, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Your warning

Given that I brought up the issue on the talk page and nobody responded, 3RR does not apply. Ratethatvoiceterms (talk) 03:02, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

It does. Edit warring is edit warring. The issue should be resolved, and then readded. Not the other way around. Erzsébet Báthory_{(talk|contr.)} 03:10, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Edit warring is edit warring, sure. And reverting changes which other people refuse to discuss is not. I'm the only person who has done anything except revert. Ratethatvoiceterms (talk) 03:15, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

That's a blatant misinterpretation of the policy. Nowhere does it say that. Any excessive reverts of something that is not vandalism, is considered edit warring. I repeat, properly address the issue at hand, and then readd. Feel free to bring it to WP:DR if need be. Erzsébet Báthory_{(talk|contr.)} 03:35, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Hmm, on rereading the policy it seems you're right. What should I do given that different people are removing that bit each time? Do you disagree with the existence of such a section? Ratethatvoiceterms (talk) 03:56, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Grunge music WikiProject

Hi, Elizabeth Bathory! I'd like to get your input on the Grunge music WikiProject proposal. If you support the proposal, feel free to notify other grunge article editors of its status. Thank you for your time! mheart (talk) 00:51, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Our IP friend

This IP is the SMG055 account. It traceroutes to the same area as the IPs in the sock case. What do you think we should do? Request it be blocked for a period of time? Wildhartlivie (talk) 21:17, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Yep, I had it blocked once as a SSP, but seems the block only lasted for a week. Any idea how to get it done again, or should we just resubmit a case asking for a longer block? Erzsébet Báthory_{(talk|contr.)} 23:06, 29 November 2009 (UTC)