User talk:Neurosys zero

Welcome!

Hello, Vinixglobal, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions.

I noticed that one of the first articles you edited appears to be dealing with a topic with which you may have a conflict of interest. In other words, you may find it difficult to write about that topic in a neutral and objective way, because you are, work for, or represent, the subject of that article. Your recent contributions may have already been undone for this very reason.

To reduce the chances of your contributions being undone, you might like to draft your revised article before submission, and then ask me or another editor to proofread it. See our help page on userspace drafts for more details. If the page you created has already been deleted from Wikipedia, but you want to save the content from it to use for that draft, don't hesitate to ask anyone from this list and they will copy it to your user page.

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{Help me}} before the question. Again, welcome! VQuakr (talk) 19:43, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Thank you!

I changed my username to reflect me as an individual. I appreciate the feedback

From what I read I am not at COI with this article as I am not, work for or represent that organization.

Thanks for the heads up tho! I've always been interested in contributing to Wikipedia. This is where i stated and plan to do more, especially with your feedback and the assistance you provided. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Neurosys zero (talk • contribs)

Thanks for your thanks. I am glad you now feel me less of an "assclown" than you expressed on IRC, but do please avoid the lack of transparency that goes along with off-Wiki coordination. VQuakr (talk) 02:22, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Well, since we are on the subject: firstly, I do not need to avoid any lack of transparency if I am speaking the truth. This isn't a conspiracy involving the Masons in Angels Vs. Demons. This is a good project and community that deserves to be recognized. I asked what he felt would help keep 2600hz on wikipedia because while I use Wikipedia everyday, I never contribute, so i did not know exactly what was expected. I did a quick google search to locate the additional sources and I elaborated on certain things in the article. I have seen much less "credible" articles on Wikipedia over my years and it is honestly disappointing that you as an admin appear to be so hell bent on deleting their existence on Wikipedia based on some unknown agenda that clearly doesn't line up with the spirit of Wikipedia.

While I know the 2600hz team, I am in the telecom industry and the owner of Vinix. An ITSP not controlled or affiliated with 2600hz, based in Miami. I choose (as have many other companies) to use the software developed by the 2600hz project for my network and I can tell you that many VoIP companies today would not exist if not for the hard work of the 2600hz team. Their presence on wikipedia is important because other aspiring telecoms who cannot afford 500k and up in licensing fees might learn of the 2600hz project on Wikipedia. 2600hz could have been like every other company and closed source their work charging big money for that. Instead they choose to give it to the world for free! That's an admirable and amazing thing to do for the telecom, technology and world as a whole - who in the 100 year history has been a very closed and tightly controlled industry (Cartel most would say). My company would still be slaves doing service work for the large telecoms (AT&T. Verizon, Comcast. Etc) if not for the work of open source projects such as 2600hz. And while they may not get fame, WSJ recognition or you don't see them on your TV and in Facebook/Google ads, it doesn't make them any less relevant or worthless. Quite the contrary: It's their work that many many companies you see in the public rely on! With your logic, this is like saying the that the web server software Wikipedia choose to run on does not deserve a Wikipedia article because you never hear of them, or the programming languages used due to their not being spoken about In the world's headlines. For you to threaten their presence on a respected information service by trying to spin the Wikipedia guidelines negatively against them is irresponsible and unwarrantedly aggressive. You obviously put your search skills to work into seeing the 50+ individuals on IRC and the 2600hz channel and saw the relevance of 2600hz. But all you saw was "coordination' as opposed to simply realizing the actual relevance of the 2600hz project.

It would appear from any reasonable and neutral individual that you are overstepping your trust within the Wikipedia community as an admin. It is not a bias opinion. It is a fact and It is clear that 2600hz is not only relevant, but they have been for quite some time - yet you still seem to want to engage in this crusade to remove them from Wikipedia. Is you don't appreciate my description of your behavior, perhaps you should actually pause and re-evaluate that behavior rather than blind attempt to justify it. neurosys_zero (talk) 03:27, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

If I thought the IRC channel was a "big deal" I wouldn't have tipped my hand. Hard to fault someone for not following a guideline of which they have never been informed. Indeed, I chose this talk page of the various new accounts that joined because you expressed interest above in continuing to edit.

You are incorrect in your assessment that this is some big crusade for me; this is pretty run-of-the-mill stuff that is encountered every day at recent changes patrol. I have no doubt that this specific article is not the worst of our ~5 million articles, but we have to start somewhere, no? The increased attention to the 2600hz article can have two possible results - votestacking at the AfD that will be ignored by the admin who closes the discussion, or genuine improvements to the article. If the latter happens, everyone wins. VQuakr (talk) 03:44, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

I hope you are genuine and I am incorrect. For me, I feel it important for them to have a presence on the worlds largest information resource as I am somewhat of an idealist. If not for amazing open source projects such as this one, I would not have my career in technology. I do not feel the intent was to "vote stack" as it was simply to show support for the relevance of the organization and its positive affect on the community. In addition to other people who are looking for such a project to see it on Wikipedia. But correct me if i am wrong: the issue at this point is not so much the resources or citations.. but the "layout"? It reads too much like a white paper or advertisement? I needs to just be cut and dry about the organization, its projects and in the discussion, if there is a fact it needs to be cited. Is this correct? neurosys_zero (talk) 03:55, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

No, we don't delete for fixable stuff such as "it reads like an advertisement" unless there is nothing of value to salvage. Improving the tone and trimming cruft can help editors see that value, but it does not directly address the argument for deletion, which is failure to meet the notability criteria (which in turn boils down to sourcing). It is not even technically necessary to use the sources in the article, but rather to demonstrate that they exist. Please see my last request to refine the feedback that has been given in the discussion. VQuakr (talk) 04:17, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2600hz

As I noted here, we want to do away with that section once the sources are used to support information in the prose of the article instead. For example, the link you added could be used to support a statement in the "history" or a new "products" section that describes the product instead. VQuakr (talk) 03:56, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Ok I think I'm understanding more clearly. I am going to rewrite a majority of it and take your suggestion and read the user pace draft and perhaps you can give it a run over and tell me if I'm going in the right direction? neurosys_zero (talk) 03:59, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

I'd be happy to. VQuakr (talk) 04:18, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Am i on the right track? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Neurosys_zero/2600hz neurosys_zero (talk) 05:00, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Right track I'd say, though I am unconvinced that the Ooma connection is germane enough to merit mention. VQuakr (talk) 05:12, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

I used Ooma since they are very well known, on television commercials daily and sold on the shelves at Best Buy. Are you in the US? neurosys_zero (talk) 05:15, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Note I added a reference next to Ooma pointing to its own Wikipedia page ;) neurosys_zero (talk) 05:21, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Well-known does not equate with germane to an article about 2600hz. VQuakr (talk) 05:43, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Ok but it is relevant to the statement that big companies work with and leverage 2600hz software. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Neurosys zero (talk • contribs)

You could be right. Maybe leave it in for now, and revisit later? VQuakr (talk) 19:39, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Cool. You think so far this is ok to start? Replace the current with this one? I actually enjoy this hehe generally speaking, If i wanted to keep contributing? What would be the best way to go about it? By that I mean like looking for subjects I'm familiar with? Or just when I look up an article, contribute if I feel or see a need? neurosys_zero (talk) 20:15, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Why don't I have another look at it this evening?

There is really not any wrong way to contribute (intuitive stuff like vandalism aside). There are some ideas at WP:HOW, or you could work on one of our >200,000 articles that need sources, or you could simply click the "random article" link in the upper end of the toolbar to the left of the screen. There are also many task forces and WikiProjects that focus on specific subject areas. VQuakr (talk) 20:13, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Awesome! I look forward to your input. neurosys_zero (talk) 20:15, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

I copied it over to the main article. I will probably wordsmith some in article-space to try to achieve a more encyclopedic tone. I left off the sentence about "as far as Russia" because it seemed like it was trying too hard. Non-English sources are usable, but the combination of the technical nature of the article and the roughness of Google Translate made it impractical for me to see if there was any relevant, novel information about 2600hz in the source. I am concerned that I might be wasting your time if better sources can't be found. Did you see my post here? I could try another recap of what has been identified, but the last one was met with outrage and I don't really feel like kicking that hornet's nest again. VQuakr (talk) 00:54, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

I would imagine this requirement would be a serious issues for most open source projects. Since most don't get mainstream media coverage as opposed to the commercial solutions that become of them. It would seem both GigaOM and TechCrunch would be pretty reliable independent resources. neurosys_zero (talk) 01:34, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Good point. I had a look at Our free software WikiProject, whose scope includes one Featured Article (top 0.1%) and 9 Good Articles (top 0.5%). OpenBSD is the FA, and these are the GAs. Not a perfect comparison since these appear to all be products, not companies or groups, but it does provide something with which to compare. I am torn on GigaOM, which technically was a blog but a financially self-supporting one, which may imply "professionalism" and "editorial staff" which are both mentioned in our policy on reliable sources. I think TechCrunch is the best source presented so far, but it is reporting in relation to its own "Disrupt" conference and both articles presented are by the same author - both strikes against the "intellectual independence" aspect. Both GigaOM and TechCrunch seem like they could be generously considered marginal; are there others that I might have missed? VQuakr (talk) 01:52, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

While watching Californication on Netflix and Googling, I found a reference to 2600hz in the Huffington Post. It's not an article about them per se, so I dot know if it qualifies. But the article is about VoIP services and a link to a blog post by 2600hz for an explication to support that article. Huffington is a reputable source. Does this count? :P I also found this one from Tech.co, "Tech.Co (formerly Tech Cocktail) is a media company and events organization for startups, entrepreneurs, and technology enthusiasts" and SD Times Magazine, run by BZ Media. According to their About Us page, "BZ Media has been on a rapid growth path, and was named to the list of Inc Magazine's 5,000 fastest-growing privately held companies in the U.S. for three years in a row (2007-2009)". They discuss 2600hz and quote co-founder Patrick Sullivan on page 2 of the article. It would appear they are independent and reputable. Here on The Next Web, "a technology focused media company founded in 2006", an article (and there are several more by the same author) about Twilio and referencing 2600hz in the article as a viable competitor.

I see someone decided to delete it. That is a shame. The above links plus the 2 world famous tech sites... at the very least give strong argument to meet this guideline and avoid WP:FAILN . Wouldn't you agree? neurosys_zero (talk) 12:47, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Read more: http://www.bzmedia.com/default.html?aspxerrorpath=/aboutus.aspx#ixzz3kAuH5EUC

Polycom also lists 2600hz and Kazoo on their certified interop page...

Can you help me understand the relationship between 2600hz and "VoIP, Inc" mentioned here? The 2010 source calls the latter "newly formed", so I am not clear if it is a separate entity from the VoIP, Inc cited by the SEC in the early 2000's for securities fraud. If 2600hz is indeed a subsidiary of another company, that would be important information to include in the deletion discussion - we could have an article about the parent company that included a section on 2600hz, which would eliminate the requirement for 2600hz to be demonstrated as independently notable. VQuakr (talk) 01:11, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

I have no clue. I can ask Darren at 2600hz to clarify? I'm sure they can tell me.. neurosys_zero (talk) 01:15, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Feel free; thanks! Also, I made some tweaks to the history section; mostly formatting stuff but also some tone. VQuakr (talk) 01:38, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

References

Neurosys zero, you are invited to the Teahouse!

Hi Neurosys zero! Thanks for contributing to Wikipedia. Be our guest at the Teahouse! The Teahouse is a friendly space where new editors can ask questions about contributing to Wikipedia and get help from peers and experienced editors. I hope to see you there! Lightbreather (I'm a Teahouse host) Visit the Teahouse This message was delivered automatically by your robot friend, HostBot (talk) 17:20, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

So, ummm, about that article

Wanna work on it some more? Darren Schreiber (talk) 04:49, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

I'd be happy to! neurosys_zero (talk) 14:46, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

List of SIP software

You should read WP:WTAF very carefully! You should read the header of articl, too. What you are doing in List of SIP software can be seen as a vandalism. --Kgfleischmann (talk) 20:32, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

I did read it. First statement is CLEAR that is is NOT A POLICY OR GUIDELINE. What I am posting is accurate and relevant information with links to the project, on two SIP platforms that you keep deleting. That is against the very fundamentals of Wikipedia. Accurate information belongs on that list. No your preference. neurosys_zero (talk) 11:39, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to vandalize Wikipedia, you may be blocked from editing. Mean as custard (talk) 11:49, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

In what way do you conclude adding relevant and accurate information as "disruptive editing"? This individual keeps deleting it based in the fact that there is no article. There is no article because there was a recent discussion as to why the 2600hz project article was not "noteworthy". Regardless, he points to an essay about making articles but this is not a guideline. If anything he is removing accurate information. Please accurate explain how this is against policy, rather than threats. Again, I would bet that this is against the very spirit and intention of Wikipedia. neurosys_zero (talk) 14:01, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

Neurosys, it is pretty standard practice to only include list entries that have articles. This provides an unambiguous inclusion criterion, which is an important aspect to controlling the scope of a list. Additional background on list inclusion criteria can be found at WP:CSC. Based on the hidden text at the top of the article this is not the first time someone has tried to add an entry without an article, so it would not be appropriate to re-insert this content without a discussion on the article talk page first. Regards! VQuakr (talk) 17:34, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

VQuakr: Thank you very much for the clarification. Can I actually create articles on blue.box and Kazoo? The softwares themselves? neurosys_zero (talk) 17:37, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

It seems unlikely that either would meet our notability requirement since the parent organization was deleted after an AfD. VQuakr (talk) 17:39, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

Yet there are softwares on there with literally 2 lines in the article that survive? Example just to name a few. Bringing back the question as to why one of the largest, most popular and most influential open source SIP platforms and it's creators cannot have an article. Really doesn't make any sense. neurosys_zero (talk) 17:58, 1 September 2015 (UTC)