User talk:Nedim Ardoğa/Archive 4

January 2011-June 2011

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This is an archive of past discussions with User:Nedim Ardoğa. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

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Barnstar

		Ottoman Empire Barnstar
		Awarded for valuable contributions to WikiProject Ottoman Empire, although the project sadly seems to be dead. Nevertheless, your numerous contributions on the field of Ottoman history are valuable and worthy of recognition. Keep it up! Constantine ✍ 02:03, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Award

		The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
		Merhaba! I, Darwinek, hereby award you this barnstar for your tireless contribution to Türkiye-related articles on Wikipedia. Keep up the good work. Kendine iyi bak. Darwinek (talk) 13:27, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

List of scientists whose names are used as SI units and non-SI units

As you are the primary contributor for these articles, I thought I should let you know: I have reverted both articles into redirects to the single page List of scientists whose names are used as SI units and non SI units. However, do not worry about copy-and-paste vandalism; I have requested that the histories of the original articles be merged into the new one, so that you will still be credited in the page's history. If history merging proves too complicated to do, {{Copied}} can be used. At least while this is being sorted out, please leave the two pages as redirects. Thank you. 155.33.172.164 (talk) 22:51, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
Everybody can edit in Wikipedia. You can add relevant data, improve the language (after all I am not a native speaker of English), find new categories or link to other articles. These are all perfectly alright and I'd be grateful for these. But emptying two articles after copying the contents to a third article is definitely another thing and it is next to vandalism. You are perfectly free the copy the contents if you wish so. But please don't empty the articles. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 10:02, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
I cannot history-merge BOTH List of scientists whose names are used as SI units AND List of scientists whose names are used as non SI units into List of scientists whose names are used as SI units and non SI units, for reason explained at WP:Parallel histories. And, someone has re-reverted the 2 pages to their texts. Please decide here whether to text-merge these 2 pages or to keep them separate. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 11:52, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
No I don't want to text-merge the two articles. I prefer to keep them apart. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 12:31, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
Why keep them separate? It seems to me that the subjects are similar enough to not warrant separate pages. Also, what about units named after non-scientists? Where should they go? They don't fit in either article, and it is not worth making a third page for. 155.33.172.164 (talk) 18:44, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
Very well, you can create a page about the other scientists. But please don't empty the two articles. I am looking forward to read the article about the other scientists. Happy editting. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 20:11, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
The article about the other scientists already exists. Also, my goal is not to copy information, but to consolidate it in one article. I have written why I believe the two articles should be merged and changed to redirects; what is your rationale for keeping them separate? 155.33.172.164 (talk) 00:34, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Alat (tribe)

Please see my reply on the Talk:Alat page. I want to add that the Chinese Boma were mystifying generations of scholars, giving rise to most wild speculations, while the subject was wide open and exposed to the naked eye. The fate of that tribe could easily create a 2-pound monograph, but I know of no compilation specifically about them. Barefact (talk) 00:24, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Quote

Hello. Could you please translate Atatürk's quote in this photo? Thank you. - Darwinek (talk) 22:12, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Such epic addresses are hard to translate. But the following statement seems to convey the meaning:"Our army is the unshakable expression of Turkish unity, patriotism, might and ingenuity". (The actual wording for unshakable is steeled) Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 06:53, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Thank you very much. Atatürk's words are always truly powerful and inspirational. - Darwinek (talk) 09:55, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Hello, Nedim Ardoğa. You have new messages at Talk:Ottoman Land Code of 1858.
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HotCat Edit

On 20 January 2011 you changed the Date of Birth category on Süleyman Çelebi to 1410. According to the article he was born in 1377 and died in 1410. Was your error due to a problem with HotCat? How many other changes have you made such as that? JimCubb (talk) 21:14, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 12:14, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

peterwardein 1716

hello nedim,

do you have some sources from ottoman/turkish literature about battle at peterwaradien on 5th august 1716? nenad fortress.info"gmail.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.2.185.142 (talk) 21:49, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

I have some Turkish language sources. In fact, I have started the article Battle of Petrovaradin in tr-Wiki.(tr: Petrovaradin Meydan Muharebesi) and Silahdar Damat Ali Pasha (who lost his life in the battle) in en-Wiki. But the sources are not specific, that is to say, the battle has been given within the scope of general history. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 07:26, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Hello, Nedim Ardoğa. You have new messages at Talk:Ili river treaty.
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Categories for discussion nomination of Category:Circassian Ottomans

Category:Circassian Ottomans, which you created, has been nominated for deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Pichpich (talk) 15:12, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

user:Kansas Bear

we know he supported PKK and ASALA with his contributions. his edits like converting Turkish city and folkloric names to the Armenian just his style. is there any undergoing work to stop his anti-Turkish propaganda? --Cupcaker (talk) 16:35, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

look here. he has banned. Are those the owners of Wikipedia? --Cupcaker (talk) 21:18, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

D 400

D 400 karayolu'nun maddesi, açtığın Datça-Mersin yolu maddesi'nin içeriğini de kapsıyor. Az önce iki maddeyi de birleştirdim. Ayrıca, Antalyalı olarak ileride birkaç fotoğrafımı maddeye ekleyebilirim. Onur T 03:51, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

İnkar etme, TARAFLISIN! Onur T 22:18, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Hunnic_language

Dear Nedim, would you be interested to chip in on Hunnic phrase discussion at Talk:Hunnic_language, I believe that the citation of a number of imminent scholars on teconstruction of the Jie Huns phrase belongs to the Hunnic_language article, and the deletion is not warranted. As far as I know, the Hunnic phrase was successfully reconstructed only with the Turkic language, by a number of independent scholars, and its presence in the article undermines all other hypotheses. Maybe you can advise me how to better defend it. Barefact (talk) 06:53, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Categories for discussion nomination of Category:Architecture in Turkey

Category:Architecture in Turkey, which you created, has been nominated for deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Pichpich (talk) 13:03, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Turkic what?

Is it Turkic migration or expansion? Many books use Turkic expansion. [1], here is the link for discussion: [2]. Kavas (talk) 18:30, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Infobox settlement

Hi! I responded on my talk page. Thanks! Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 14:31, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Aynı dosyadan 3 tane yüklemişiniz bu yüzden diğer ikisi silinecek. Esas dosyaya birşey olmadı o silinmeyecek. Birde Türkçe yazarsanız daha rahat anlaşırız İngilizce'yi biraz unuttum.--Reality006 (talk) 08:56, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
OK, Happy editting Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 09:10, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Campaigns of Suleiman I

Hi Nedim Ardoğa! As you may noted, I have expanded and renamed the article List of campaigns of Suleiman I, which you have created. I hope that you agree with most of my edits. I would like to have the article fully referenced with reliable sources, and your help would be appreciated. Especially since I don't understand Turkish language, and lots of good sources are in Turkish. Regards, Kebeta (talk) 12:20, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

I fixed some of your edits since I added a request at Peer review. So, geting some advice from more experienced editors will help us to determine what is missing in the article, and what is redundant (maybe Treaty of Karlowitz, as you think). I would like to see the article as FL, so any help is appreciated. Please, when adding new content, cite it with inline citation. If by any chance you have a citation for Campaign 8 (Moldavia or Kara Bogdan), than would be great. I can't find anything so far. Regards, Kebeta (talk) 09:40, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Veli Mahmud Pasha

Hello! I've fixed my error at Veli Mahmud Pasha, and added some extra info. However, I also think the article ought to be moved to Mahmud Pasha Angelović per WP:COMMONNAME. Constantine ✍ 17:18, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

women's library and information centre foundation

Hallo Nedim Ardoğa,

I need help for article "the women's library and information centre foundation". I will try to add new references and sources for verification. I want to improve this article. Can you help me? Birsentalay (talk) 08:31, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

women's library and information centre foundation

Hello, Thank you for your suggestions. I will try to do . How can I upload the logo and the photo of the library? I sent a mail to permissions-commons@wikimedia.org for the visual materials. Is it sufficient or not? Again I need help. 178.233.6.209 (talk) 11:18, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Birsentalay" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.233.6.209 (talk) 11:20, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Hallo Nedim Ardoğa,

I need help for article "the women's library and information centre foundation". I will try to add new references and sources for verification. I want to improve this article. Can you help me? Birsentalay (talk) 08:54, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Hello, That's great!! I have some references about the library. I want to add these on the page. Is it OK? www.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1468-0424.00191/abstract muse.jhu.edu/journals/jmw/summary/v005/5.3.james.html www.highbeam.com/doc/162-344602874.html Thank you very very much for your help...Birsentalay (talk) 15:28, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

NewArtBot

Sorry nothing to do with me I'm afraid. Alex (talk) 13:04, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

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Malta'ya gönderilen şehla Ahmet Paşa

İyi günler, Türkçe Wiki'ye girme hakkım yok. O sebeple size buradan yazıyorum. Lütfen katkıda bulunhduğunuz Nişancı Şehla Hacı Ahmed Paşa maddesinin son haline bakınız. 1753 de ölen vezir 1919 da Malta'ya sürgüne gönderilmiş ! Selamlar Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 07:16, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Merhaba, hatalı değişikliği geri aldım. Hoşcakalın...Vikiçizer (talk) 10:40, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Attribution

Several times I saw that the article created by me has been copied to another article. (For example whole text of Akkuyu Nuclear Power Plant proposal has been copied from Büyükeceli , there are other examples as well.) I know that this is permitted in Wikipedia. But all the same the author(s) of the original article must be given credit per Copyright policy Although I warned the author no attribution has been made up to now. What should I do now ? Thanks. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 11:35, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Refer the author to Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia for future notice. For articles where the copying already occurred, you can either note your contribution at the top of the discussion page or make a small edit to the article and put it in your edit summary. Dcoetzee 11:46, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Categories for discussion nomination of Category:Ottoman diplomacy

Category:Ottoman diplomacy, which you created, has been nominated for discussion. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Pichpich (talk) 15:02, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

thanks

Thank you so much for adding my river in the template of turkish rivers (didn't know it was so important).--Sweetcorn (talk) 14:31, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Cumans/Volga Tatars

Do you know anything about the Cumans or Volga Tatars? I am looking for other editors for a wider perspective on these two articles. --Kansas Bear (talk) 17:25, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Tr.wiki mesajı

Merhaba Nedim,

En son Reality006 sana bir "oluşturduğunuz falan sayfa uyarısı göndermiş", Twinkle da bunu kullanıcı mesaj sayfadan kullanıcı sayfana giden yönlendirme ile karıştırmış nasıl yapmışsa. Ardından Reality'nin kendi kullanıcı sayfasını sildirmeye yönelik talebiyle sayfası silinince Twinkle yönlendirmeleri temizliyorum derken seninkini de silmiş.

Bu silme işlemi ile ilgili bir mesaj geldi sanıyorum sana, şimdi gerekli düzeltmeleri yaptım.

Sevgiler

Vito Genovese 17:01, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Ottoman Family

Selam Nedim Bey

I do not understand why the descendants of the Ottoman dynasty will be deleted, but the deposed European descendants are not deleted. I've posted resources that are not recognized. In Facebook, some princes and princesses, as well as relatives of the Ottoman dynasty to find. Dilek2 (talk) 14:59, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Canvassing on Tenedos

I can't help noticing that you've been canvassing on the aforementioned subject trying to influence the discussion. Please desist or you will be reported to the administrators' noticeboard. Thank you.--Anothroskon (talk) 07:40, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

I will look up to this,i hope we can do something about that also for Anti Turkist-Turkophobic mentality--Kamuran Ötükenli (talk) 07:25, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Datça Mersin highway

Please participate in the discussion on Talk:State road D400 (Turkey) about this. Since both articles are clearly about the same exact road, we only need one article to cover this topic. In addition, I didn't just redirect it, I merged it over. All of the information is covered in the single article. You appear to be in a slow-moving edit war with with User:Ont, so you should not just revert the merger, but rather you should discuss why you feel that we need two articles. Until then, one article is sufficient. Imzadi 1979 → 08:20, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Cities of Turkey

Template:Cities of Turkey has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 19:51, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

Tortum

I have reverted the article about Tortum to a readable stub. Thanks ;)--Alperen (talk) 17:03, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

List of Ottoman battles in which Sultans participated

Nedim, Thank you for you feedback on my edit of List of the Ottoman battles in which the sultan participated.

Hi, you have reassessed List of the Ottoman battles in which the sultan participated in Project Military History as class=start. Wouldn't class=list be more appropriate. Happy editting. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 3:07 am, Today (UTC−6)

While I agree that a List-class would normally be the appropriate categorization of the the article in question, however as the Military History WikiProject uses a less orthodox assessment scale. Specifically, the project makes no distinction between lists and articles, rating them along the same scale. Assessments performed in this manner by the MILHIST project because the project sets a goals for itself concerning a overall quality of List-class pages as articles. More information regarding the MILHIST assessment system can be found here. I hope that clarifies the issue. As an aside, I have to say responding to your feedback was a nice change of pace from copy-editing. Best Regards, LeonidasSpartan (talk) 09:27, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Bapheus

Hello Nedim. The Byzantine general at Bapheus is variously given as simply Mouzalon or George Mouzalon. The first name may well be correct, although IIRC it is not certain. He is certainly however not the same as the better-known regent George Mouzalon, which the list linked to. IIRC, I did not uncover much info on the later Mouzalon when I was researching for the Bapheus article, but I'll have another look. Cheers, Constantine ✍ 16:55, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Overlap

Hello, I noticed you are trying to populate a category by the name of "Turkic history". Isn't there an overlap with the already existing "Category:History of the Turkic people"? Should they be merged? Dimadick (talk) 09:52, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the warning. Most people prefer to redirect without even trying to discuss. I started the category on the suggestion of another contributor. (See the section Categories above.) Anyway, when I started the category I had no idea of the existence of the other one. But after seeing the other category I compared them. Turkic history has a wider scope than the History of the people. Two categories at the same article may be redundant. But there are cases (like politics) when Turkic history may be more relevant. So I don't think merge is a good idea. But the category Turkic History may be deleted wherever the other one also exists.Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 10:19, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

White Clipper

I think there is some confusion here. The white clipper is used in professional and broadcast video equipment. It is primarily a video circuit used within a camera or other video source. I know of no situation where sound buzz or interference is caused by peak white levels. If you were arguing the case for sound buzz due to carrier frequencies particularly NTSC colour subcarrier then I would agree with you. It is vital to distuinguish between video signals and TV signals. What are you discussing - baseband video or transmitter protection? On a low cost CRT TV receiver you will often get sound buzzing and whistling due to poor PSU regulation or loosely wound deflection coils. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Robjlocke (talk • contribs) 23:05, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

White limitter is used both in studio equipment and in TV transmitters. In analog transmitters, aural signal is superimposed on visual signal and whenever the visual signal exceeds a certain level the aural signal is interrupted, the result being an irritating sound in receivers. You can see that in the white scenes transmitted by the poorly adjusted transmitters. In Wikipedia all editors can edit. But it is advisable to discuss before deleting a sentence. I added the sentence which you have previously deleted. But I was careful not to delete any material editted by you, except the following: I repaired the link to composite video signal. (which was linked to an empty page), and I changed the format of the reference (which had a title warning.) Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 06:03, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Hello, Nedim Ardoğa. You have new messages at Talk:List of campaigns of Suleyman I.
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Help request

This help request has been answered. If you need more help, you can ask another question on your talk page, contact the responding user(s) directly on their user talk page, or consider visiting the Teahouse.

A very interesting problem. I want to use File:CevdetSunay.jpg on Wiki commons (a portrait) But it seems there is another File:CevdetSunay.jpg on English Wikipedia (a photo of the same person, but not a portrait) How can I import the image on Wiki commons to English Wikipedia ? Thanks Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 06:58, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

I'm going to refer you over to Magog the Ogre. He's pretty good at sorting out image problems. – AJL^talk 08:50, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Done image moved, file on commons visible. Magog the Ogre (talk) 14:27, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Barnstar

		Ottoman Empire Barnstar
		Awarded for valuable contributions to WikiProject Ottoman Empire, I have noticed your edits and appreciated them greatly. Thank you for your contributions to WikiProject Ottoman Empire. Keep up the good work. --Antidiskriminator (talk) 11:35, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Improper use of CSD

Hello. Your recent attempts to blank and/or list the redirect Şemsi Pasha as a WP:CSD did not follow CSD guidelines. If you have an issue with this redirect, please post to Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion (RFD) with your rationale. (If you want an article moved over the redirect, please make a request at Wikipedia:Requested moves.) I will note that it is certainly NOT a cross-namespace redirect as you claimed, and the destination article Chamsi-Pasha clearly indicates "Şemsi Pasha" as an alternate spelling. Moreover, the incoming links to the article support this. Please review the CSD and RFD procedures before editing Şemsi Pasha again. Thanks. -- Hadal (talk) 07:40, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

I see that my db-r2 tagging was not a good choice. But I couldn't find a better alternative.The article Chamsi-Pasha is about a person. But as it is a proper noun, the title should be moved to Şemsi Pasha, the correct spelling of the name (Pasha is a title). But since it is already a redirect article, I can't move it. Well maybe not so important anyway. Have a nice day. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 08:50, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

I had a feeling that's what you were trying to do. Upon closer inspection, I noted the edit histories of the two entries were in fact fragmented by a copy/paste move done ages ago. So I went ahead and moved the article for you, and merged the edit histories at the same time. If you do run into this situation again (where you'd like to move an article but a previous article or redirect at the destination is preventing you from doing so) don't hesitate to list it at Wikipedia:Requested moves. I know that page has quite the backlog lately, but I've been trying to hack my way through it as time permits. Cheers. --Hadal (talk) 09:18, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Assessments for WP:HWY

We only used List-Class for lists of roads, things like List of Interstate Highways in Michigan. If the article is about a single road, even though it has the junction list table in the article, it's not a "list". It would get classified as either Stub-, Start-, C-, B-, GA-, A- or FA-Class. Basically, the idea is simple: if you would nominate a complete version of the article for Featured List, it's List-Class; otherwise if you'd nominate it for Featured Article, it uses the other scale. Imzadi 1979 → 10:34, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Çukurova motorway

Anyway, deletion propose was not a good idea. But I strongly support the article, if it should be revamped as a disambig page.

And, we should write something about Mersin-Esendere highway. :D Onur T 20:29, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Hürrem or Hürrem Sultan

Click any one of these, you will get the article titled as "Roxelana", you can never get an article titled as Hürrem or Hürrem Sultan In addition, most of the titles are incorrectly written as well as their spellings. The Correct title is Hürrem Haseki Sultan. 193.255.108.20 (talk) 20:53, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

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Titles for the wives of the Ottoman Sultans

The mother of the reigning Sovereign: Daulatlu Ismatlu (given name) Validi Sultana 'Aliyat us-Shan Hazratlari, with the style of Her Majesty. The first four official wives of the Sovereign, according to Islamic law: Daulatlu Ismatlu (given name) Bash Kadin Effendi Hazratlari, Daulatlu Ismatlu (given name) 2nd Kadin Effendi Hazratlari, Daulatlu Ismatlu (given name) 3rd Kadin Effendi Hazratlari, and Daulatlu Ismatlu (given name) 4th Kadin Effendi Hazratlari, with the style of Her Majesty. They were additionally styled Haseki Sultana if they had born a son to the Sultan, Haseki Kadin Effendi if they had only borne daughters. The next four favourite wives of the Sovereign: Daulatlu Bash Iqbal (given name) Khanum Effendi Hazratlari, Daulatlu 2nd Iqbal (given name) Khanum Effendi Hazratlari, Daulatlu 3rd Iqbal (given name) Khanum Effendi Hazratlari, and Daulatlu 4th Iqbal (given name) Khanum Effendi Hazratlari, with the style of Her Highness. Usually promoted to official wife (Kadin Effendi), on the death of one of the latter. Also borne by the mothers of sons of a Sovereign. The next four ladies of the Sovereign's harem: styled (given name) Bash Gozde, 2nd Gozde, 3rd Gozde, and 4th Gozde. The next four junior ladies of the Sovereign's harem: styled (given name) Bash Paik, 2nd Paik, 3rd Paik, and 4th Paik. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.255.108.20 (talk) 18:10, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

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ANI notification

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.--Kebeta (talk) 14:44, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Haseki Sultan or Valide Sultan

In case of Nükhet-Sedâ, the biological mother of Mustafa IV who died in 1850, she was BAŞ İKBAL and was not allowed to hold the title of Valide Sultan, instead the title of Valide Sultan was given to Ayşe Sine who was the Baş Kadınefendi for Abdülhamid I the father of Mustafa IV for a reason unknown to us. WHY?
This means that all the biological mothers were being assigned the title of Haseki Sultan since the had given birth to a son, but when this son becomes a sultan was not automatically given the title of Valide Sultan as in the case of Nükhet-Sedâ. Because Nükhet-Sedâ was not in the status of Kadınefendi but an IQBAL, that's why she was not promoted to the level of Valide Sultan. When Abdülhamid I had died, he had already FOUR surviving Kadınefendis and Nükhet-Sedâ was just an IQBAL, she was unable to be promoted for the position of Valide Sultan, but the other FOUR surviving Kadınefendis had no sons, therefore Nükhet-Sedâ remained as an IQBAL as the biological mother of Mustafa IV. 193.255.108.20 (talk) 14:39, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Confusing or Incorrectly assigned titles in List of the mothers of the Ottoman Sultans

My suggestion is this: Let's erase all titles as TITLES ERASED: Khātûn, Valide Khātûn, Sultâna, Second Haseki, Second Kadın Efendi, Fourth Kadın Efendi, Third Kadın Efendi in order not to be cause any furher confusion, but keep their full names. Your list have some of them named as Sultan or Hatun and some has no titles. Better to erase all titles. 193.255.108.20 (talk) 15:47, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

I don't have a list of my own. These names are all from the articles. But I'll try to delete the titles. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 05:32, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

List of campaigns of Suleiman the Magnificent

Hi you were not around. Any problem in Turkish Wiki ? Anyway let me talk about your accusation of Ottomanphille. You were not sure if I were one. Well I am not. (Why to admire a monarch who killed his two sons and Piri Reis ) But this is an encyclopaedia and there is no point to follow feelings. I created the article and I never thought to classify the campaigns as Victory or defeat. That was Kebata's doing. But while defining defeat he used opinions. Lets look at the defeats . In 1529 Suleyman captured Buda, expelled all Austrians out of Hungary. He tasked a junior commander to enthrone Zapalya. Is this defeat ? Sure, he also tried to capture Vienna in vain. But still that was not a defeat. Because nobody chased him and he returned home with much booty. My two main sources Hammer and Iorga don't call this a defeat. Maybe unclear outcome at most. The same with the campaign of 1537. There although Corfu was not captured, many forts at the Adriatic cost were captured. While returning home nobody chased Suleyman. This is certainly not a defeat. (Please compare these campaigns with the campaign of 1683 which was certainly a defeat) Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 16:30, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

I didn't accuse you of Ottomanphille. You can read my message.. I said I don't Nedim is whether Ottomanphille or not. Many Ottomanphille fiends of mine are only reason to change the term "Suleiman's military defeat" to "Suleiman's military failure". As I've said before, you'd better edit (and discuss) with showing sources. Türkçe Bilgi Net is not identified reliable source. Like Wikipedia, Armenipedia, Konapedia. Thank you. Takabeg (talk) 16:44, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

I propose that we invite some more experience editors from Military history WikiProject, or to open RfC, or a mediation to solve this problem (if this is a "Content dispute"). We will show our sources and community will resolve this. What do you say?--Kebeta (talk) 17:47, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

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Mehmed or Mehmet

You changed Mehmed -> Mehmet with your note Correct spelling. But this your claim is not correct. Both of them (Mehmed and Mehmet) can be used. Only in modern Turkish language spoken/written in the Republic of Turkey, Mehmet is preferred to Mehmed. If we consult sources, especcially English sources, we can understand that Mehmed Pasha is common use, especcially Ottoman era. Off coursa for this person. In short, Mehmed is common use for Ottoman people, Mehmet is common use for modern Turkish people. Takabeg (talk) 12:45, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

The original name is Muhammad ending in d. But in Turkish tradition most people refrain from using it to show respect to prophet. So Mehmet is a unique Turkish name and Turkish speech prohibits using -d ending. So Mehmed can't be pronounced in Turkish. I don't know why people like -d ending while they really pronounce -t ending. Any idea ? Please don't mention that this is English encyclopaedia. Everybody use the proper nouns in their original forms in Latin alphabeth . Look at John Zápolya. Is there á letter in English ? Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 13:03, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

John is English name, János is Hungarian one. About á letter, now I have no idea. I read Talk:John Zápolya. John Zapolya, János Szapolya. They decided according to reliable sources. I recommend you to use reliable sources. Yani kafamıza göre değil, kaynaklara göre yazalım. Takabeg (talk) 13:21, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

You know too well that this example is funny. John is an English name. Is Mehmet also an English name ? The universal rule is that all proper nouns are spelled as in their own languages. In this encyclopaedia please check the names Anders Jonas Ångström, Hans Christian Ørsted, Loránd Eötvös , Peter IV Rareş, Roger Apéry all of which are spelled in their own languages . The same is also true in Turkish Wikipedia. According to your logic, George Washington should be spelled Corç Vaşinktın and William Shakespeare should be spelled Vilyım Şekspir. I am right to spell Mehmet with - t ending. Because it ends in –t. By the way, please try to be a bit more polite and don't use slang in your messages. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 08:38, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
Mehmed Pasha 's own languages is not modern Turkish language but Ottoman language/Ottoman Turkish language (Osmanlıca).
I don't use any logic. I decide only in according to reliable sources and recommend you to do.
About Anders Jonas Ångström, Hans Christian Ørsted, Loránd Eötvös , Peter IV Rareş, Roger Apéry, now I don't have much information. If need, I can research them.
Here is not Turkish Wikipedia. But we can say same thing for them.

"George Washington" is the common use also in Turkish

"George Washington" -Llc - 347 results
"Corç Vaşington" -Llc - 6 results

"William Shakespeare" is the common use also in Turkish

"William Shakespeare" -Llc - 403 results
"Vilyam Şekspir" -Llc - 5 results

Takabeg (talk) 09:06, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

And in modern Turkish language, Mehmed Paşa is common use.

"Mehmed Paşa" -Llc - 20,100 results
"Mehmet Paşa" -Llc - 10,800 results

Takabeg (talk) 10:35, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Takabeg. In English usage, these names are more often rendered with -d rather than -t, as the modern Turkish phonology. Thus most books on the Ottoman Empire will have Mehmed, Murad, Esad, etc. It is no coincidence that the sultans' articles use these forms too. While there is an increasing tendency to use the modern Turkish forms for epithets and honorific names, usage is pretty clearly on the "d" side on these particular names. Constantine ✍ 14:25, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Reply to Constantine and Takabeg

Hi , Constantine I noteiced that you had moved Kara Murat Pasha to Kara Murad Pasha. Although we 've collaborated before, I didn't know that you were an expert on Turkish names. Before writing this message I also saw that you've interrupted the discussion between me and Takabeg. OK, I'll save time by answering both of you. Ahmad Shah Qajar was Persian. But Ahmet Necdet Sezer is Turk. Although they use the same first name the spelling of the name differs. That's normal; they speak different languages. Look at the example in western languages Henri Becquerel and Henry Cavendish are two great scientists. Although they use the same first name, note that one name ends in-i and the other ends in-y . Because one is a Frenchman and the and the other is an Englishman. If you compare the counts of the names in search engines, I am sure you'll get much more Henry than Henri. (In yahoo 720 000 000 Henry vs 168 000 000 Henri) Now are you going to move Henri Becquerel to Henry Becquerel ? If not, why Mehmed instead of Mehmet and why Murad instead of Murat ? Personally I have nothing against d and in fact I have two d's in my own name. But the problem is that Turkish prohibits -d ending (as well some other letters such as b and c) For imported names ending in -d the last letter is converted to -t (b to p and c to ç for that matter). So Murat was always Murat and Mehmet was always Mehmet. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 13:47, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

I never claimed to be an "expert on Turkish names". Before dropping sarcastic comments, I'd suggest you check up on English-language literature. I know what modern Turkish forms look like, but I also know what forms I encounter in the books I have. As I said above, we have sultans' articles at Murad, Mehmed and Ahmed, and not at Murat, Mehmet and Ahmet. Open the The Cambridge History of Turkey, Finkel's Osman's Dream, etc. and see what forms are used. There are also works (the more recent ones, usually), that use your preferred version, but most of them are specific to Ottoman/Turkish studies. Works that refer to Venice or Byzantium use the "d" forms more often than not. So it is certainly not correct to say that "Mehmet" or "Murat" is the only correct form. For some reason - this is a question for a linguist - Ottoman Turkish names, when transliterated, most often use "d", and not "t". I suspect that this is because these names are essentially transliterations from the Ottoman Turkish into English, and may date from before the adoption of the Latin alphabet for the Turkish language. In other words, we are dealing with forms that are intrinsic to the English language, and not simply loans from the Turkish. Constantine ✍ 14:13, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Strike the latter comment: how about this, or this move and many other similar ones, with the justification "Osmanlıca yazım"? Constantine ✍ 14:18, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

You don't want to understand do you ? I don't say Murat is better than Murad. I say Murad is impossible in Turkish. In all languages pronouncing certain letters is almost impossible. For example French people trying to pronounce th usually puzzle Americans. In Turkish the problem is with the final d. The Turks who can easily pronounce d in a word can't pronounce it at the end of the word. ( It is not a recently invented rule) So there are no names ending in -d.Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 15:08, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

I understand what you mean, but the written evidence in history books and even in the Turkish Wikipedia itself seems to contradict what you say. I am no linguist to abjudicate on the matter, but when I see common and established usage with "d", I follow it. Once again, remember that this is the English Wikipedia: it does not matter if a Turk can pronounce a name, it matters what forms English-language sources use. The average Russian probably does not know what to make of "Boris Yeltsin" either because its sounds nothing like it does in Russian, but it does not matter. Transliteration rules do not have to faithfully follow the original language's phonology. Constantine ✍ 15:25, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

And regardless of the transliteration hypothesis, there's plenty of Turkish-language works that use the "d" form. A perfunctory check in Google Books turns up dozens of books, in Turkish, with Murad, Mehmed, etc. For an impossible form, they sure crop up a lot. Have you considered the fact that Ottoman Turkish and modern Turkish are not exactly the same language, and that phonology too may have changed? Constantine ✍ 16:24, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Suluk

You've moved Suluk (Turgesh qaghan) to Suluk (Turgesh khagan) with claiming Correct spelling. But we cannot say so. As long as I know, Q () is Old Turkic style and Kh (خاقان) is Presian style. Moreove, we can find only one sample for Turgesh khagan. Thank you. Takabeg (talk) 14:17, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

The page which was created by me!

Hello Nedim. I'm a new editor and I'm not used to wikipedia options, I don't know why the page looking like this, if you can fix it, I'll be thankful for you... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Somer Khaldi (talk • contribs) 17:46, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Shkodër Vilayet ?

Hi Nedim. What's your oppinion on this issue ? Takabeg (talk) 14:36, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Warning

You currently appear to be engaged in a slow edit war on List of campaigns of Suleiman the Magnificent. In the same article you are pushing your POV (see WP:NPOV), and you are trying to explain your POV by original research (see WP:NOR). I have already notify you of this on the article's talk page, and this message is being sent to you as a last warring! --Kebeta (talk) 10:12, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

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Ottoman names

Nedim, you say that you "searched the names Mehmet and Mehmed", but these are generic searches including tens or hundreds of thousands of modern Turkish people who obviously have the "t" forms. You cannot be seriously be bringing this as an argument... Now, on to the main issue. Everywhere I look, including the Turkish Wikipedia itself, these names are most often transliterated with "d" by a (very) wide margin. As it stands, it is you against scholarly usage, including, let me repeat that, Turkish-language books by Turkish authors on Ottoman history, as well as the Turkish Wikipedia. All of them apparently don't have a problem with these forms, so I cannot accept your claim about it being "impossible". Modern Turkish phonology apparently isn't the same as Ottoman Turkish, or perhaps there are other reasons... The fact however remains that these forms are a) valid and b) more widely used. I assure you that there is no prejudice here: if it were the other way around, I'd equally follow that usage. Constantine ✍ 15:00, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Nedim, why are you choosing irrelevant comparisons? "Henry" is English and "Henri" is French, "Constantine" is English and "Konstantinos" is Greek, but both Mehmed and Mehmet are Turkish, the one Ottoman, the other modern. You say that the "d" form is "impossible", well, it isn't. It's used, including by Turks. Period. Most of the Grand Vizier etc articles in the Turkish Wikipedia follow that convention too, and if you have a look at Google Books you'll find several Turkish-language books doing the same. "How about Konstantinos Karamanlis ? Are you going to move his name to Constantine ?" ~~Yes, because that is the more common name in English-language sources. Good catch!~~ No, because the results are about evenly balanced: he is better known as "Constantine" in printed material, but "Konstantinos" is common with news agencies, Britannica, etc Constantine ✍ 06:55, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Sultans Trail

Nedim bey, Sultans Trail sayfaları için yapmış olduğunuz yardımlar çok işe yarıyor. Türkçe Sultanlar Yolu sayfasınada yardımlarınız olabilirse seviniriz.

Bu sayfaların daha iyi kullanımı ve bizim katkılarımız bakımından tavsiyeleriniz olursa çok memnun oluruz.

Selam ve sevgiler,

Sedat Çakır Sedatcakir (talk) 10:32, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Correct form ?

You claimed correct form and changed title of the article Sofu Mehmed Pasha. As you saw in the discussion page (Talk:Sofu Mehmed Pasha), scholars prefer Mehmed to Mehmet. If you are in Turkish Wikipedia, your claim could be justified. Because articles are written by the rule of TDK or similar organization Dil Derneği in the Turkish Wikipedia. But it is valid for modern Turkish language. TDK doesn't show the rule about Ottoman language. In this situation we cannot say X is correct form, Y is false. We have to chose the term from its alternatives in accordance with English sources. When will you understand this ? Takabeg (talk) 06:41, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Sultans like Mehmet II are well know people and it may be claimed that English names must be preferred. (Although I feel personal names should never be altered. For example we never change western names no matter how we pronounce them, except in books written for kids.) Anyway some grand viziers such as Sofu Mehmet, Sultanzade Mehmet or Kara Murat are not well known names. Their names don't appear even on serious English sources about the Ottoman Empire.So what is the logic behind changing names which are not even cited by the English books ? You like search engine counts. They are never reliable. You can see most pages are just the mirror of one page. Besides, you always warn me not to use on line sources because they are not reliable. Well if we don't use them as sources why do we count them ? On the other hand, I use written sources and they use the names of the grand viziers as Mehmet or Murat. So Mehmet or Murat are not my creations; they are sourced. You as a contributer who like to tag articles for citation needed so much, must agree with me. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 07:24, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

There is no logic and there is no my own personal preference about titles. We have to behave and chose titles according to Wikipedia:COMMONNAME. And we have to tag {{citation needed}}, because many article include false information, unfortunately. Moreover, please don't forget that we can easily find full copies in Türkçe Bilgi and similar web encyclopedias. In such articles, they accounced that Bu sayfa, online kullanıcı topluluğu tarafından oluşturulan ve düzenlenen özgür ansiklopedi projesi Wikipedia'nın Türkçe versiyonu Vikipedi'deki maddesinden faydalanılarak veya ilgili madde birebir kopyalanarak hazırlanmıştır. Bu makale, GNU Özgür Belgeleme Lisansı ilkeleri kapsamında, Vikipedi sitesi kaynak gösterilerek özgürce kullanılabilir. Thank you. Takabeg (talk) 07:44, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Ditto for Sultanzade Mehmet Pasha. "Sultanzade Mehmed Pasha" is also sourced and correct, and in addition far more commonly used [3] including by scholars like Setton and several Turkish sources. This persistent refusal to heed scholarly begins to verge on the WP:IDONTLIKEIT. Constantine ✍ 08:13, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Frankly I didn't understand your reference to WP:IDONTLIKEIT. My personal preferences don't play a part in naming an article. I only want to present the correct names. Last year while preparing a series of lists about the scientists I noticed that the title of Hans Christian Oersted's article is Hans Christian Ørsted, a Danish name. Although I hate search engine counts, seeing most contributers rely on it, I compared two names in English yahoo search engine. The result is 23300 Hans Christian Oersted (Eng.) vs 7780 Hans Christian Ørsted (Danish). But still the title is in Danish. In WP:Article titles, the policy for foreign nouns is summarized as "If there are too few English-language sources to constitute an established usage, follow the conventions of the language appropriate to the subject" It seems that even the sources about a well known man like Ørsted are considered too few to constitute an established English usage. Well now you may have noticed that lately I am creating articles about the 17th century Ottoman grand viziers. Most of these people are low profile men. There are no books written on them and even the professional historians don't know much about them. I didn't read Setton. But so far I saw no English source to constitute an established usage. So there is nothing wrong in following the convention of the local language which prohibits _d ending. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 08:35, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Here we go again with the irrelevant comparisons... The point is simple: a) the "_d ending" is used, b) it is used in greater frequency in the relevant scholarship as a simple search shows (and it does so in every single case I have examined so far), c) and most importantly, it is used, and quite extensively, in Turkish-language books, websites, etc. So as I said, I cannot accept your argument about it being "prohibited" in the "local language" when my eyes tell me differently. Take the matter up with these authors, but the evidence is conclusive. Constantine ✍ 10:28, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

It's very easy Nedim Bey. The Ottoman language is different from modern Turkish language. As you know, normal Turkish people cannot read Nutuk without translation to modern Turkish. If a name with "_t ending" is common use in English books/articles, we must accept it. Otherwise, we must not forcibly "translate" them to modern Turkish. Takabeg (talk) 14:41, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Kaç Kaç Indident

Elinize sağlık. Bu olayın adı İngilizce tarih yazımına yerleşmiş bir terim olmadığı için Incident'in I'si küçük harfle yazılmalıdır, bence. Takabeg (talk) 14:35, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Sultans Trail hakkında

Nedim bey,

Sultans Trail sayfalarını Commons ile nasıl değişik dillere çevirme imkanı var. Özellikle Almanca, Hollanca, Fransızca ve İspanyolca bizim için önemli olabilir. Türkçe sayfalarında bu şekilde güncelleştirme imkanı çoğalabilir.

Yardımlarınız için şimdiden çok teşekkürler.

Selam ve sevgiler,

Sedat Çakır Sedatcakir (talk) 21:33, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Please don't provide false information to readers

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