User talk:MikeNuell

Original research

Welcome to Wikipedia. We appreciate your contributions, but in one of your recent edits, it appears that you have added original research, which is against Wikipedia's policies. Original research refers to material—such as facts, allegations, ideas, and personal experiences—for which no reliable, published sources exist; it also encompasses combining published sources in a way to imply something that none of them explicitly say. Please be prepared to cite a reliable source for all of your contributions. You can have a look at the tutorial on citing sources. Thank you. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 00:47, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

Let's be honest though, not all independent sources are reliable, many newspapers don't fact check, and there are plenty of wiki pages that use unreliable sources. The only reliable source in this entire article is Peter Lorge.

I object to the sentence that "subtitles" etc. led to the new meaning of the term in English, because that's also speculative. (It's unclear that Bruce Lee didn't intend it as a new term for martial arts.) I did a 2nd edit on the last sentence, to merely reference 1966 as the first OED listing, which should be neutral.

I also added Donnie Yen along with Jet Li and Jackie Chan because he's the most recent "crossover" star with an international profile. (Compare to Gordon Liu, super important kung fu star whose Hung-gar comes from the Lau, but was not a "crossover" star with a general audience in the West.) Chronologically, Jackie Chan comes before Li and Yen, who were contemporaries, although Li's stardom came early, and Yen's late. (They first met when Donnie was sent to train with the Beijing team under Wu Bin, although Donnie wasn't a member of the team.)

Note that a lot of information on Chinese martial arts is passed down through oral tradition, and only very recent modern scholarship is reliable. MikeNuell (talk) 20:14, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

You can debate or challenge the reliability of sources at the reliable sources noticeboard, or check WP:RSP to see if it's already listed. Regardless, Wikipedia's verifiability policy requires that all material be sourced. Feel free to remove or tag any existing information n that article. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 20:26, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

I'm good with the current version of the page. I'll recheck my copy of Lorge—didn't realize that note about subtitles came from him—if it's a direct quotation, I'll add quotes.

Thanks for leaving the reference to 1964 Long Beach, as that was possibly the first high-profile event that featured "kung fu"! MikeNuell (talk) 20:37, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

Well, what you added seemed to be covered by sources in the Long Beach International Karate Championships article, which was good enough for me. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 20:50, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

I think we could make some more tweaks to the "notable figures" & "celebrities" page.

For instance, Gordon Liu is currently omitted, but his "36 Chambers of Shaolin" was instrumental in the embrace by hip hop culture. He later co-starred as Pai Mei/Bak Mei in Quentin Tarantino's "Kill Bill". There are a few others who should be added, like Bridget Lin, Angela Mao, and Michele Yeoh, and especially Cheng Pei-Pei who did instrumental work with the great director King Hu in films such as "Come Drink with Me". (She was also Jade Fox in "Crouching Tiger".)

The page could also benefit from a film director section, because there are a handful of important ones, all of whom have wikis. King Hu would be analogous to directors like Akira Kurosawa and Sam Peckinpah, and films from "Crouching Tiger" to "House of Flying Daggers" are homages to him. Lau Kar-Leung, Yuen Woo-Ping, Ang Lee and Zhang Yimou are all important and have significant popular-culture influence. (Yeun is the most influential choreographer, but he's also a director, so easier to include him there. He cast Donnie Yen in his first role in "Drunken Tai Chi". Yuen was who they brought in for the Matrix, which opened up Hollywood to the technical aspects of filming fight choreography, and Ang Lee also brought him in to choreograph Crouching Tiger:)

All of this info is validated by wiki. MikeNuell (talk) 23:16, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

(1) What do you mean by "validated?" Do you mean "supported by an existing reliable source in the articles about those subjects?" (2) Kung fu (term) is an article about the "term" Kung fu; it's not intended to be a coatrack for all things related to martial arts in Western cinema and culture. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 23:34, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

I'm glad I ran it by you before making the edits! It's just the current selections in the side bar are not comprehensive or complete, and maybe even a little random. Re: cinema, that's a huge part of the reason we use the term "kung fu", direct from the Lorge reference about subtitles. Enter the Dragon was the film that made kung fu movies popular in the West. MikeNuell (talk) 22:51, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Note that we already have articles on Kung fu film and it's parent genre Martial arts film. The side bar is a standalone template, Template:Chinese_martial_arts; I'd recommend proposing any changes to Template_talk:Chinese_martial_arts first if you have suggestions for the template itself. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 23:29, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Li Yu Lin moved to draftspace

An article you recently created, Li Yu Lin, is not suitable as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. DoubleGrazing (talk) 17:14, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Li Yu Lin (August 22)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reasons left by DoubleGrazing were:  The comment the reviewer left was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Li Yu Lin and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
• If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

DoubleGrazing (talk) 17:15, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Hello, MikeNuell! Having an article draft declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! DoubleGrazing (talk) 17:15, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Li Tianji (October 28)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by S0091 was:  The comment the reviewer left was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Li Tianji and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
• If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

S0091 (talk) 17:36, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Concern regarding Draft:Li Tianji

Hello, MikeNuell. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that Draft:Li Tianji, a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Drafts that have not been edited for six months may be deleted, so if you wish to retain the page, please edit it again or request that it be moved to your userspace.

If the page has already been deleted, you can request it be undeleted so you can continue working on it.

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 18:02, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:Li Tianji

Hello, MikeNuell. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Li Tianji".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been deleted. When you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 18:13, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Concern regarding Draft:Li Yu Lin

Hello, MikeNuell. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that Draft:Li Yu Lin, a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Drafts that have not been edited for six months may be deleted, so if you wish to retain the page, please edit it again or request that it be moved to your userspace.

If the page has already been deleted, you can request it be undeleted so you can continue working on it.

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 01:02, 9 May 2023 (UTC)