User talk:MarnetteD/archive63

A huge loss

Ennio Morricone has passed away. So many films beyond Leone's spaghetti westerns have been graced by his music. I will have a ton of tunes running through my head the rest of the week. RIP EM. MarnetteD|Talk 23:52, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

AIAI page

Hi... good expansion of the citations on the restored AIAI page. But that entry is showing a wikipedia tag that it relies too much on references from the University of Edinburgh itself. Given the two simple citations are to formal University statements, do you think that is enough to state its verifiable? I can’t remove that tag as the issue having been considered and addressed as I am too close to the source too. Can you take a look of you have time and remove the tag if appropriate? Best wishes. Austin Tate (talk) 11:58, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

Hello Austin Tate. I am not familiar with the subject. The article is so brief but even so I know I know that editors prefer if their are references from more than one source. If you can find any other reference about the Institute from someplace else that might be enough. You could also ask Rosguill if they have any suggestions. You could also ask for assistance at the Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Robotics. I will add that, while I understand your desire to remove the tag, you shouldn't consider it as bad for the article. It is just indicating to the reader the state of the article at the moment. It also encourages readers to help and improve it. Best regards and happy editing. MarnetteD|Talk 16:19, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks, as always, for your diligence on these reFill issues. Caro7200 (talk) 21:13, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

You are welcome Caro7200. It sure is nice to have it up and running again. Now if they would just give us a new version of reflinks - ah well wishful thinking is one of the things I'm best at :-) Cheers and happy editing. MarnetteD|Talk 21:17, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

MarnetteD, I cannot get the "expand bare references" tool, that I access as a drop-down, to work. I think this was discussed at Wp:VPT, and one person said it was solved....but not for me!

Hello Caro7200. I missed your message whenever it was that you posted it - my apologies. I'm not sure which drop down menu you mean since I don't use it but make sure that you are using the new refill2 toolforge version and not the old wmflabs one. Regards. MarnetteD|Talk 23:44, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

I believe that was another editor who posted the comment, but thank you for "following up." Caro7200 (talk) 23:48, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

Oopsie C. I won't bother you with another ping over something you didn't post :-) MarnetteD|Talk 23:51, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

Refs

I will try the refill2, but I may be sending extra work your way....Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 20:05, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Hello Tribe of Tiger. I think I got them. They were an odd hybrid of a ref and a footnote but I found a way to deal with them. Cheers. MarnetteD|Talk 20:08, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Hi again Tribe of Tiger. Please put the bareurl template at the top of the article. I know the old instructions were to put it in the ref section but those of us who work on them find that it is easier to do the fixes when it is at the top of the article. Cheers again. MarnetteD|Talk 20:13, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Will do! Thanks! Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 20:26, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Deprecated field

Hi, I hope all is well with you, and not nearly as crazy as things are here.

I have a question about the "residence" field in Template:Infobox criminal. Another editor removed it as deprecated recently, and I restored it because when I checked the template's doc it was still listed as a parameter. Further when I looked at the template's code, it was still in there as well. It's certainly true that it's not being displayed, but I don't know exactly what to make of this dichotomy. Did the parameter actually get deprecated and no one got around to removing it, or was it never deprecated and the fact that it's not displaying is a bug that needs to be fixed. Or did they deal with the deprecation by preventing it from displaying?

Any thoughts? Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:20, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

Hello Beyond My Ken. Things are as okay as can be expected here though I keep waiting to see this scene outside my door any day now. Per this thread Template talk:Infobox person/Archive 34#Residence parameter the field was deprecated in the main infobox person. A small group of editors are clearing it out that infobox in the articles where it was used by checking Category:Infobox person using residence. In working on that I have learned that some of the infoboxes related to the main one have had the field deactivated but that wasn't noted at the time. I'm spacing out on the specifics but there was a singer or artist one a couple months ago that hadn't and a request at the WP:VPT (or maybe the WP:VPM or even at the talk page for that infobox - I can't seem to find it at the moment) was made to get things fixed. AFAIK if it isn't showing in that criminal infobox then it was part of the general removal and the documentation and code should be updated to reflect that. However, as with everything else around here, I could be wrong and I'd hate to be steering you in the wrong direction. You could double check at the Infobox Person talk page or one of the village pumps. Best regards MarnetteD|Talk 23:40, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for that, it's enough for me to know that the deprecation is official and the process simply hasn't caught up to it. Pretty chilling, that scene from Nosferatu. I've only been downtown twice in the past 4 months or so, and it was unusually quiet, but not deathly so. I have a lot of faith in NYC's ability to bounce back, but we'll have to see how long this thing ultimately lasts. Best, Beyond My Ken (talk) 00:40, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

It is just possible that you wont ever see anyone clean things up at that infobox Beyond My Ken. I find that decisions like that bump into the fact that editors involved in creating stuff years ago have left the project and new ones aren't aware of the wider ramifications that recent changes bring about. In the scenes I've seen from NYC the streets aren't as empty as the ones in The World, the Flesh and the Devil but they were close :-) MarnetteD|Talk 02:07, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

The studio I usually work at is on Broadway in SoHo, and in the 30 years I've been there, I've seen the neighborhood go from community-oriented stores to what looks like the Mall of America, and the sidewalks go from busy to so crowded they resembled something from THX 1138. When I was last there, about 3 weeks ago, they weren't empty, but they were far from what they were at their peak. These days I'm working from home (Ever try to cast a production using videos and Zoom meetings? It ain't easy) but starting in August I'll be going in to the studio to edit pretty much every day. We'll see how that works out. Beyond My Ken (talk) 02:27, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

How interesting Beyond My Ken. Thanks for taking the time to share it with me. Cheers. MarnetteD|Talk 02:31, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

See if you can catch Staged. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 16:05, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

That looks great Redrose64. Years ago it would have shown up on BBCAmerica but that station has more Star Trek than UK programming anymore. Fortunately streaming services have come along and it has a good chance to be added to one of those. Cheers. MarnetteD|Talk 16:13, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

It might come up on a channel where you're not expecting it. Earlier today, I was flipping around the channel list, and picked the Horror Channel more or less at random. What was showing was the episode "Charlie X" and the most "horror" element was not Shatner's upper torso in full view, but what Charlie did to Janice Rand and two other female Yeomen. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 13:44, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

Ah Star Trek first season memories Redrose64 :-) MarnetteD|Talk 17:33, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

Hard

You said "hard to fathom", and I tell you: when I edit that article, the message shows for less than a second, and then I'm right at the beginning of the editing field. It's easy to miss the message! (I just tried it, but am determined to never edit said article, unless it's reverting vandalism.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:29, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Gerda Arendt I'm not sure what message you are referring to. The one that I copy pasted into my edit summary is in big black letters the large box above the editing field and it doesn't go away on my screen. If you mean the hidden one at the top of the editing field then you won't see it after you scroll down but it doesn't disappear. At any rate I know that feelings about infoboxes are strong on both sides. I am actually indifferent to them in general (one project I am currently working on is a cleanup one of those that already exist) but when a consensus has been reached on an article like SK's I can get annoyed when that consensus is ignored. I do apologize if that particular edit summary has caused any upset. On a happier note when I watch the video tribute that I posted at User talk:Viva-Verdi I like imagining that he is in at least one of the pictures that are on display. We do see my heart throb Isabel Leonard in one of the brief scenes from Cold Mountain (opera) and John definitely would have been in the audience for that performance. Best regards. MarnetteD|Talk 22:07, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

July

pale globe-thistle above the Rhine

See, that's all I wanted to tell you. I mean the edit notice, which doesn't go away on your screen, but it goes away quickly on mine, and possibly on those of others, so nobody should expect miracles because of that message. We see things differently, and we try to do our best, and assuming the others do the same helps a lot. Long live the memory of Viva-Verdi! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:16, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for the gorgeous flowers Gerda Arendt. A lovely way to send me in to the weekend. MarnetteD|Talk 16:32, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for mentioning nice day and collaboration in one edit summary. Today is the day. It's time for the next flowers but I try to avoid white space. I was called awesome 10 years ago OTD, so was Brian (he deserved it more), today we received Featured topic qualification for Monteverdi's operas, and in great collaboration Leon Fleisher's article grew to something worthy for the Main page. Nice day of collaboration. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:42, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

You are welcome Gerda Arendt. You are as awesome today as you were ten years ago!! Many congrats to you and all who collaborated on those articles. I spent Saturday night with this version of Cosi fan tutte. Mozart and de Ponte may have wondered where their opera went. Set in the 1950's at Coney Island it includes a group of side show entertainers who currently work at that amusement park. It isn't going to be everyone's cup of tea but I thought it was a hoot. For something even crazier get a load of this segment from the Royal Opera House's production Shostakovich’s The Nose. Cheers. MarnetteD|Talk 22:30, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Smiled, hatschu! Thank you! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:40, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for your assistance at [[1]] (Museum d'Angers). It was Very Late for me, and my energy and brain power were practically down to zero. As evidenced by the fact that I did not try the dead links program. Duhhh. I always know that if I run into some ref problem that I cannot resolve, I can rely on your expertise, and learn from your example. Regards, Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 22:50, 16 July 2020 (UTC) P.S. I did remember to put the bare url note at the top!Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 22:53, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

You are welcome Tribe of Tiger and thanks back atcha :-) MarnetteD|Talk 00:07, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

reFill2 deleting references

On this edit you replaced two bare links with ref name="auto2"/> and ref name="auto3"/> while removing the actual cite - in both cases linkedin pages - was this intentional or a misfire /misedit? (Whether we should be using people's Linkedin pages at all is a different question).Nigel Ish (talk) 10:07, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

Hello Nigel Ish and thanks for your question. I removed the links per WP:LINKEDIN. While there are a couple items that L can be used for those are not included. IMO the biggest problem with the site is that there is no fact checking of thigs posted there. I did leave the info and added citation needed tags. Now I did do that manually while running the tool. In fixing fifty or more bare urls each day I have found it a time saver to make one edit instead of several. Apologies for any confusion. MarnetteD|Talk 20:57, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

It's reasonable to delete the linkedin refs put you left <ref name="auto2"/> and <ref name="auto3"/> behind without any content. Perhaps a Cn tag instead of a big red error message?Nigel Ish (talk) 21:02, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

Ah I missed those items Nigel Ish since they were so far below the manual edits that I made. I am in the habit of checking the ref section after running the tool but failed to do so this time. Now that part of the edit was done by refill2 so your finding this helps me to keep an eye open should anything like it happen in the future. Thank you for cleaning things up. Apologies again and best regards to you. MarnetteD|Talk 21:15, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

Rollback of John Kani Page

I noted that you requested a rollback of the John Kani page. I am new at editing Wikipedia so I may have made a mistake. I added new references to strengthen the credibility of the page. I also added John Kani's recent award. He received an honorary doctorate from Wits University. It is possible that my summary of my edits didn't save properly. I do, however, believe that the references I added and the update should not be deleted. Kindly let me know what to do to not have the changes deleted. Thank you for reading and I hope you have a good day. Nikkidiscovers (talk) 10:35, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Please note Nikkidiscovers that the only edit I made on the John Kani (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) page was to revert unsourced changes to the birthdate and a couple items in the filmography that messed up the table. All of those edits were made by an IP and not you. Now if you were editing while logged out please note that is not a good idea and you should avoid doing so in the future. Otherwise I don't know what I can do to help you but you could try asking at the Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard. MarnetteD|Talk 16:13, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your reply it was not my edits then I was logged in. And I didn't add the birthdate or any of the other things you have mentioned. Hope you have a good day. Nikkidiscovers (talk) 09:20, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

You are welcome Nikkidiscovers. Enjoy the rest of your day and week :-) MarnetteD|Talk 16:45, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

Oberbayerisches Volksblatt

Hi @MarnetteD: I never knew that. Thanks. I'll keep it in mind for the future. scope_creep^Talk 19:51, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Hi Scope creep. I know it adds a bit of extra work at your end but it is most helpful when I am working my way through a dozen articles (or more) fixing the bare URLs to get the tool running without having to dig that template out of the MI set. I also know that it may take a some getting used to for you since you've been doing it the other way. Cheers and enjoy the rest of your weekend :-) MarnetteD|Talk 19:58, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Input required

Your input regarding a recent revert you made would be much appreciated - see Wikipedia:Help_desk#Reverts. Many thanks, Ed6767 talk! 15:23, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the notice Ed6767. You've seen my reply already. Cheers. MarnetteD|Talk 16:45, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

No problem, I thought I'd leave one in case you had pings turned off, but in this case, it was my mistake, sorry! Ed6767 talk! 17:34, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

No worries Ed6767. That quirk/gremlin with pings has been there from the moment they were introduced but few editors know that you have to make a whole new post to get them to work :-) MarnetteD|Talk 17:41, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

You were wrong

WALL-E is an animated film, not a live action film. That's incorrect, but the category is for when both were made for this film. There were so many animated Disney films with live action sequences out there, but Shelby Forthright is the only live-action character to appear in a Pixar film. Animal Control Abuse (talk) 22:09, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

I didn't say it was a live action film. MarnetteD|Talk 22:35, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, it wasn't a live action film. It was an animated film. I wrongly added the category, just like I did in Ice Age: Continental Drift. Animal Control Abuse (talk) 22:41, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

No worries. As you continue to work with categories there are two important guidelines to keep in mind. 1) WP:CATVER stresses that there must be verified info in the article to support the cat. 2) WP:CATDEF mentions that any cat added should be a defining characteristic of the subject of the article. Good luck and happy editing. MarnetteD|Talk 22:47, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Okay, sorry, I promise I won't do that again. Animal Control Abuse (talk) 22:59, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Removing birth_name

Why are you removing birth_name, e.g. here and here? Your edit summaries are "rmv deprecated field", which I assume refers to residence. Did I miss birth_name being deprecated? Nick Number (talk) 21:03, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Hello Nick Number. The first one is an error on my part and thanks for restoring it. As you are probably aware the documentation for the field reads "Name at birth; only use if different from |name=" so the second one is debatable. For me the shortening of a birth name is still essentially the name. OTOH if you wish to restore it please feel free to do so. I have seen articles where you have the name as the title of the article, in bold at the beginning of the lede, at the top of the infobox, in the caption field, in the birth name field and even in the other names field. IMO repetition like that is of no value to the reader so I have gotten in the habit of removing it as part of my work removing the deprecated residence field. It is a massive task and I and a few others have whittled it down from over 38,000 articles to approx 15,600 articles as of today. I also use the drop down field in the edit box to save typing the same words over and over. Due to that documentation about the birth name field it is in a sense deprecated when misused though I can well understand if you disagree with that thought. I hope this explains things but will try to go further if it doesn't. I hope you are well and safe and that you enjoy the rest of your weekend. MarnetteD|Talk 21:52, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Ok. I understand the rationale, though my general practice has been to fill in birth_name whenever it doesn't match the article title. I do avoid using the person's name in most captions, though, as I agree the subject of the image should be obvious. Nick Number (talk) 22:03, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply Nick Number and best regards. MarnetteD|Talk 22:06, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Likewise. I will start removing residence fields if I see any. Nick Number (talk) 22:08, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

That will be a big help Nick Number and very much appreciated! MarnetteD|Talk 22:10, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Dana Hill

Dana Hill's article is the subject of an IP determined to impose their version of the article. Can you page protect it? PAustin4thApril1980 (talk) 23:04, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Hello PAustin4thApril1980. As I am not an admin I can't protect the page. WP:RFPP is always available and I have added the article to my watchlist. Regards. MarnetteD|Talk 01:08, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

My new favorite website

thisisirrelevant@gosomewhere.else as created by Jéské Couriano is an absolute gem. A much needed laugh out loud moment many thanks JC.

Amanda Majeski.

A barnstar for you!

	The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
	Thank you for fixing the references on Samuel Arama before I got around to it Pi (Talk to me!) 08:56, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

You are welcome Pi and congrats on your work on that article as well as all your other editing here at the 'pedia. MarnetteD|Talk 15:36, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Many happy returns of the day!

Cheers!

I am so sorry that I forgot your birthday on Monday, Michael.
Wishing you (belatedly) many happy returns of the day!
Hope it was a good one.
All the best! Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 11:22, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Ah! Me too, Marnette. Clare and pals send their best wishes from 1981! Martinevans123 (talk) 11:39, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you Gareth Griffith-Jones for your wonderful message and the glass of wine :-) It wound up being a nice one as friends from near and far texted heartfelt b'day wishes. One even thanked me for being a gregarious raconteur which is one of the finest compliments I have ever received ;-) Thanks to you as well Martinevans123. Another sweet song link from your vast repertoire! See nice to see Clare between playing Susan and Kristine. Do you have any idea where the scene by the river and bridge was filmed? As I find myself somewhere between Pantaloon and second childishness my mind winds up pondering things like that. Cheers and best wishes to you both!! MarnetteD|Talk 16:00, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Sorry no idea on the locations for that video. All I can tell you is that it was directed by Tim Pope. The wiki article for the song makes no mention. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:31, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Excuse me butting in, but that location would appear to be the footpath on the north bank of the Thames in London, between Blackfriars Railway Bridge and Blackfriars Bridge. It has changed somewhat in (oh!) almost 40 years: this image is a little further to the east (left) than the video, but the tree on the far (south) bank looks very similar, and the details of the road bridge to the right and the unused pillars to the left look right. Happy birthday! (I hope the answer to "If they were me and I was you / Would you have liked a present, too?" is "yes: where is my great big cake?".) Theramin (talk) 00:40, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Oh my goodness gracious Theramin thank you so much. Please butt in anytime you like :-) I think your instincts about this are spot on. 40 years since the video was filmed whoooosh there goes time rushing by me again. Nice one in the parenthetical as well. I didn't get a cake this year but I did treat my sweet tooth to a key lime kringle from Racine. I have to say that I have had as much fun learning from talk page discussions like this one over the years as I have had reading the 'pedia's articles. Many thanks for taking part in this one. MarnetteD|Talk 00:54, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Late happy birthday, - I began a song collection for mine ;) - Martin, feel free to add videos! - I have the sport to fill red links, the second caused me DYK trouble today, sigh. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:40, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

I just took a tour of your user page to see where it says Michael. What I found was your first opera. Mine was Lucia di Lammermoor starring Yvonne Ciannella. I had forgotten that she was a soloist in Monteverdi's Vespers at Carnegie Hall in 1955. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:06, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

YT HjvBcnjGhT0 - is that licensed enough to use for external link? You experts? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:14, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

seems very unlikely! Martinevans123 (talk) 18:46, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

YT A1sjms7HeSM looks better to me, no? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:16, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

possibly, as it says "Auto-generated by YouTube." But am sure the copyvio-police would have none of it! Martinevans123 (talk) 18:46, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the info M. I wonder if they filmed it in Scotland somewhere. Thanks for all your messages GA That userbox was adapted from one created by VivaVerdi!! Ponyo kindly copied it from his user page for me. Here is the one I made User:MarnetteD/Userboxes/First Opera in case you'd like to adapt it for your own use. Cheers to all. MarnetteD|Talk 18:40, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for the user box, but it's only one top icon, only one user box for me. I'm afraid I talked too much about age already ;) - One of the places offered for my birthday is in Scotland, did you see? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:49, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

OK GA. I created this User:Gerda Arendt/Userboxes/First Opera if you would like to have it. You will need to fill in the opera house, location and year - though they aren't absolutely necessary. I used a younger pic of Donizetti but you can substitute it with another one if you wish. Now there is no obnligation to use it and we can always ask for it to be deleted if you don't want your name on a userbox. Regards. MarnetteD|Talk 19:11, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

It's cute, thank you, but I am afraid I wasn't clear above: 1 user box + 1 top icon, and check my user page, both are there already. I have my boxes here, DYK? Help yourself if you want to express "it is enough", "life is too short", "this user is a monster" or whatever fits, - the code is ready to be copied. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:22, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation and links Gerda. I've requested it to be zapped. Just know that if you ever bump into an editor who would like to have one we can always accommodate them. MarnetteD|Talk 19:45, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Sure, thank you. How do you like my monster pic? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:46, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

It is marvelous Gerda. If I'm reading the documentation correctly you took the pic which is even more marvelous in that you were walking through Lisbon and saw the home that it graces. ThQAIbox is replete with wonderful pics so I am glad that I now have a link to it :-) MarnetteD|Talk 20:01, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Glad you enjoy it. I had forgotten the story behind "go out", but the link for "go" goes right to the song I was given most often. Small world. Today I talked to the one who back then called me a monster about Portuguese. (Can't remember his new name enough for a ping.) Small world. I took it as funny then already, - when I took the pic I mean ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:27, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Well! Stone me (as the great man was fond of saying) I could never have imagined that my offering Michael just half a glass of Chateau Fleet Street to mark his birthday, would inspire such a symposium.
Cheers to you all!
Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 10:49, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

• Happy Birthday, M! Thanks for all your cheerful recommendations to me over the years. Many happy returns! Softlavender (talk) 10:56, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

It did make for a fun day Gareth Griffith-Jones. I'm sorry the bot wouldn't let the pic of Rumpole stay on this page :-( One of my favorite lines from that show is Horace stating that "a bottle of Chateau Fleet Street keeps me astonishingly regular" I've now reached the age that I know what he meant :-D MarnetteD|Talk 16:15, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks to you for stopping by Softlavender and you are welcome :-) MarnetteD|Talk 16:15, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

A Piraat for you!

Thanks! Hahaha! Yeah, I've been watching that, and I also remember "chronic hysterisis". DonQuixote (talk) 16:29, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks DQ. It is always fun chatting with you because you kindly drop off something to slake my thirst :-P MarnetteD|Talk 16:32, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

infobox person parameters

With this edit, you removed the |birth_name=, |residence=, and |home_town= variables from {{infobox person}}, saying, "rmv deprecated field". Of those three, however, only |residence= has been depreciated; the other two are still functional. — Fourthords | =Λ= | 00:25, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Hello Fourthords. Please be aware that the residence and home town fields have had a WP:CONSENSUS that they are no longer to be used and, in fact, the residence field has been deactivated and no longer shows even if there is info in there. As to the birth name field the documentation for it reads "Name at birth; only use if different from |name=". Adding the middle name is not different just longer. The field is meant for people with entirely different birth names like Michael Caine or Cary Grant. In this case, where you have restored it, you now read his name four separate times within the first few inches of the article. That kind of repetition is of no real use to the reader. I see you have restored it so that can be a WP:IAR situation but you should give it some consideration to this repetition. MarnetteD|Talk 01:09, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

I'm aware of the depreciation of |residence= and did not disagree with you.

I cannot find the consensus for the removal of |home_town=. This May, SMcCandlish (talk · contribs) proposed repurposing it, and RexxS (talk · contribs) concurred, though it appears neither made any edits to that effect. Can you point me to the consensus you mentioned?

As for |birth_name=, the template says "Name at birth; only use if different from |name=." Okay, then looking at |name=, it says, "Common name of person". Since the subject's common name (as borne out by the article's reliable sources) is "Peter Ostrum", his complete "name at birth" would be "Peter Gardner Ostrum". The subject's name is used 64 times in the article as a whole; is that a codified "too much"? — Fourthords | =Λ= | 01:30, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Well that is just weird Fourthords. I know I saw one (even two) short threads that came after the RFD about the residence field both of which stated that "home town" was trivial information that should also be removed. Yet after searching several spots I can't find them. Though they must not have been in the infobox person template talk page cause I dug through the history from last fall until today. I understand if you don't trust my memory but I am not making it up. I will say that the term will have different meaning for different people and cultures. As with everything in an infobox there should be sourced info in the article to support what is used in the field. As to your second point adding the middle name does not make the name different. As I said if you like needless repetition that is fine, but, IMO it is of no value to the reader. MarnetteD|Talk 01:54, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

For some formatting reason the links you provided did not go to specific threads but they did help me find Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Infoboxes#The_home_town_parameter_of_Template:Infobox_person That is one of the threads I saw so thanks for clearing that up. MarnetteD|Talk 02:06, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Oops further searching turned up this Template talk:Infobox person/Archive 35#Proposal: Repurpose and redocument the home town parameter. Now I know there was a smaller one but still can't locate it. Looks like I misinterpreted it as remove. We probably need a different RFC but I'm not sure when I'll have the time. Regards. MarnetteD|Talk 02:12, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Okay I started this thread Template talk:Infobox person#Home town field to see if we can get clarity and consensus about this. Feel free to comment there and thanks for you post here as it spurred me get things going on something that has niggled at me for a couple months. Cheers. MarnetteD|Talk 02:57, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

I'll check that out. PS: I agree with MarnetteD that for someone named Peter Ostrum that |birth_name=Peter Gardner Ostrum is not what that parameter is for. His middle name will appear in the lead section already.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  10:33, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Um was doing that...

This edit. Yeah, first I got an edit conflict with the person drive-by tagging for refs (whilst I was actually fixing them). And then one with you whilst making multiple fixes. Eagleash (talk) 21:22, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

No worries Eagleash. Stuff like that happens. You might be aware that sometimes refill2 removes the template when it finishes its fix and other times it doesn't. I've gone off and forgotten to remove that tag at times too :-) I hope that you have a pleasant Sunday. MarnetteD|Talk 22:34, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

Well I messed up the ping Eagleash but that gives me a chance to say thanks for your work on that article and on the 'pedia in general. Cheers. MarnetteD|Talk 22:59, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

Guideline on Medical Advice

In the period 22-24 April 2018 you contributed to a discussion on the subject of the Reference desk guidelines. See Wikipedia talk:Reference desk/Archive 130#Proposed change to Reference desk Guidelines.

This subject is now being discussed again in a Request for Comment at Wikipedia talk:Reference desk/Guidelines/Medical advice#Does this page reflect community consensus. You may wish to contribute to the discussion. Dolphin (t) 13:13, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

remember the monster?

August

Sunflowers in Walsdorf

The monster comments in 2015 came because of some comment on Frank Sinatra, DYK? I'm therefore a bit reluctant to enter that talk, where you asked for a policy. I'm not good at policies, but may have an answer. Long ago, we discussed collapsed infoboxes, and one user said how difficult it is for him to click the "show" button (because of a disability). I don't need policy to try to avoid that, so unfortunately, a collapsed infobox is not a good compromise but bad for accessibility. (The discussion - in case of interest - was held in the spring of 2013, Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Infoboxes/Archive 7#Collapsed or hidden infoboxes, the edit in question 20:24, 6 March 2013) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:32, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the flowers and the link GA. MarnetteD|Talk 00:06, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

A first for me today: a featured list (= a featured topic in this case) on the Main page, see Wikipedia:Main Page history/2020 August 21, an initiative by Aza24 in memory of Brian. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:32, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

That is wonderful Gerda. Congrats. MarnetteD|Talk 14:22, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, means a lot! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:28, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Can you tell me, though, what was unclear in that trying to avoid difficulties for a single user with a disability would be enough reason for me not to collapse? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:47, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Gerda I know we disagree about this. WikiP can't be everything to everyone. There isn't anything in the infobox that is not also in the article so the info is available to them. There is no real accessibility issue. Believe me, I've worked with the handicapped in the past so I know how the world can be difficult to deal with. If I already haven't it is likely that I will offend you over this. Since there is no way to avoid it I will apologize now. I hope you enjoy your weekend. MarnetteD|Talk 22:55, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

You don't offend me, - all I wanted to know is if I was unclear. Have a good weekend! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:03, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Today, I remember how a friend almost got banned because he unhid an infobox in an article I had created, which almost drove me crazy. (Look for "Memory lane" on my talk.) - I try to understand how people can get so wordy about a question as simple as: "should we make life for readers a click harder than necessary to get some information?" The question is not that information, and not if it should be there or not, but just the extra click, or what do I miss? Once on memory lane: it took me about 2 years to understand that in articles such as Rinaldo (opera), the (ugly unaligned if you ask me) image came with a caption that could be opened. I just didn't get it ;) - I prefer Carmen. Missing Brian. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:51, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

I archived my talk entry early, ready to better forget, and will remember the date now as when now rejoice became a GA ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:35, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Very nice Gerda and a delightful way to get the week started. Congrats. MarnetteD|Talk 22:58, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Today: it's Rhythm Is It!, the only good that ever came out of arbitration enforcement, afaik. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:10, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

"which almost drove me crazy." Really??† Encyclopædius 11:06, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

I said I try to forget. Let's not confuse the funny monster thing (which I remember smiling), and the situation when an arb had no better diff to present for banning my friend (Andy) than unhiding an infobox, and until next morning I was sure he would be banned. I had no idea that arbs can change their vote. Andy is now a respected member of the community, and hasn't been seen in one of these frustrating discussions in ages. Just imagine no arb had changed his mind ... --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:44, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

In the same way that you "try to forget" about infoboxes and say you're not interested in them yet find a way to mention them on somebody's talk page every waking day?† Encyclopædius 12:22, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

Accent on try. Some day I may succeed, just no yet. I came here - as explained - because of a request in the Sinatra discussion that I didn't want to answer there. I made one comment there, neither support nor oppose, just history, and that's it. - What I came to tell MarnetteD: today Rhythm Is It! - I expanded that stub on my dad's birthday because we saw the film together back then, and were impressed. As a ref said: every educator should see it. Don't miss the trailer, for a starter. - A welcome chance to present yet another article by Brian on the Main page, Le Sacre du printemps. - One of the arguments to ban Andy was that he made too many arguments in that discussion. Tough to forget, seriously. Kafka comes to mind ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:47, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

I was able to forget that I was here before ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:48, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

Dystopian films?

Why are you undoing the edits I am correcting in the list of dystopian films? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mborchardt1977 (talk • contribs) 03:05, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Actually you are removing sourced info. Please stop using your WP:POV to decide what should not be on the list. MarnetteD|Talk 04:17, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Actually I am using sourced info as the reason they shouldn't be on the list. I don't care personally how these films are categorized, just going off of their own sites within Wikipedia as to how they are categorized.Mborchardt1977 (talk) 04:25, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

And that source is? It can be noted that sources disagree but you should not be removing sourced info. MarnetteD|Talk 04:27, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

The sources are their own pages. Look up 'The Terminator' in Wikipedia and find any where mentioning that the film is dystopic. These are the sites I'm removing. My opinion doesn't have a factor in this. If someone sited on the page that 'The Terminator' was a hilarious spoof on historic events then I would add it to the list of comedy films. Follow?Mborchardt1977 (talk) 04:48, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

The sources on the list are what matter. Look up Wikipdedia's policies and guidelines. Your sophistry is noted. MarnetteD|Talk 05:28, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Removal of a question and answer from the Reference desk

Hello MarnetteD,

I was disappointed to see that you removed an entire thread from the Science Reference Desk without observing any of the courtesies normally associated with such an action. The thread consisted of a question about Klebsiella pneumoniae asked by User:John Dong Longson and good-faith responses from Shantavira, Tribe of Tiger, Count Iblis and Lambiam. Your edit summary said “actually posts by socks and trolls can be removed by anyne”. See your diff.

Your edit summary fails to justify your action in removing these edits. Firstly, I acknowledge that posts made by a User who has been determined by Wikipedia to be a sockpuppet can be removed. However, none of these five Users has been determined to be a sockpuppet. (If I am incorrect, please supply a diff to show that one of these five Users has been found to be a sockpuppet.)

Secondly, it is untrue to say that posts by .. trolls can be removed by anyone. Wikipedia has numerous policies and guidelines addressing the removal of edits but none of them says that posts can be removed by anyone if anyone decides the edit was made by a troll. (If I am incorrect, please supply a link to show that any User can remove a post made by another User, simply by deciding that the other User is a "troll".)

Wikipedia’s policies and guidelines provide a lot of information about the courtesies that should be exercised if one User decides to take the significant step of removing another User’s signed edits from a Talk page or a Reference Desk:

At Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines#Editing others' comments it says:

Cautiously editing or removing another editor's comments is sometimes allowed, but normally you should stop if there is any objection.

Dolphin’s comment: You knew there was an objection after Baseball Bugs removed the thread; and you knew there would be an objection if you removed it again, after I restored it. There is presently a Request for Comment HERE, driven by a challenge to the practice of unsound removal of threads from the Reference Desks. You know this RfC exists because you contributed to it.

At Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines#Editing others' comments it also says:

Some examples of appropriately editing others' comments are:

Removing harmful posts … … Posts that may be considered disruptive in various ways are another borderline case and are usually best left as-is or archived.

Dolphin’s comment: No-one has attempted to persuade us that the question and answers that you removed are harmful in any way.

At Wikipedia:Reference desk/Guidelines#When removing or redacting a posting it says:

Removing postings unwisely is bound to result in hurt feelings and acrimonious debate.

In general, you should leave a note on the Reference desk talk page explaining your edit and the reason behind it.

When you remove a posting, it is recommended to note this on the Reference desk talk page. Include a diff of your edit.

Dolphin's comment: These guidelines apply explicitly to removing posts from a Reference Desk but you have done nothing to observe any of them.

At Wikipedia:Reference desk/Guidelines/Medical advice#Dealing with questions asking for medical advice it says:

Furthermore, as a courtesy, it may be appropriate to inform the person on their talk page why their response was removed.

Dolphin’s comment: I have checked the Talk pages of the five Users whose edits you removed and I see that you haven't informed any of them of your action to remove their good-faith edit.

At Wikipedia:Reference desk/Guidelines/Medical advice#Dealing with questions asking for medical advice it says:

Although removal of questions is discouraged, if this is done, please follow the procedure below:

1. … Also, note the removal of the question by posting the diff on the talk page of the Reference desk.

Dolphin’s comment: You haven't made a post at the Ref Desk Talk page to alert the Community to your action in removing the thread.

I expect to raise this matter again in the near future, possibly at either WP:ANI or the Ref desk Talk page, so please respond thoughtfully to this email because your response may become the subject of discussion by others. Many thanks. Dolphin (t) 12:26, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

See WP:TLDR. I will note that some people like putting flaming bags of excrement on a person's doorstep. Some people like having flaming bags of excrement placed on their doorstep. The rest of us have standards and a code of conduct that we live by. Please do not post your support for the first of these on my talk page. It will be removed unread. MarnetteD|Talk 16:30, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Well said, Michael! I like your opening Wiki-link. Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 17:58, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks Gareth. MarnetteD|Talk 18:27, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
	For watching over a fellow editor's talk page while they are recovering from surgery. MelanieN (talk) 00:00, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

• Thank you MelanieN I was glad I had DJJ's page on my watchlist so I could remove those posts. Thank you very much for the R/D as well. I had asked other admins about it but they weren't around the 'pedia at the time. Best regards and have a nice week. MarnetteD|Talk 01:02, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

• Oops I only just found that it was Malcolmxl5 who performed the R/D. Many thanks to them. I should have been more thorough in my research :-) Cheers. MarnetteD|Talk 01:12, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

• Yes, it was already R/D'ed when I applied the protection. -- MelanieN (talk) 03:50, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
• Ah yes, I did the R/Ds. For good measure, I also partially rangeblocked the IPs from editing DJJ’s user talk page for a month, though this is somewhat superfluous as the page is protected for a month. Still it’s an option that can be considered in future if some intervention is needed again. And, yes, thank you for watching DJJ’s page. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 21:04, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

• You are welcome M and thanks for the suggestion if problems resume in the future. MarnetteD|Talk 21:07, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Norwegian and Swedish Travellers: the problem was not you

Hi, MarnetteD, I was remiss in not handling this better. I used an automatic revert with an automatic summary. If you saw the version that I had reverted back to, you might have realized that the problem was not your edit, but the previous editor, who had removed a substantial part of the article, including removing citations. I should have used a manual summary, something like "reverting back to last good version" & then restored your edit. I had mistakenly thought that your additional citation was made to the lesser material that the previous editor used to replace that which had been removed. I am sorry about my mistake. Peaceray (talk) 14:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

Hello Peaceray. I did check your edit and the only thing it did was revert my formatting of the ref. As I look at the edit history it looks like the huge removal that the IP performed hasn't yet been fully reverted. Unfortunately, they made a couple other edits as well so I'm not sure what the best way to proceed would be. When you have a moment you might take a look a things and fix them as you see best. Cheers and have a nice weekend. MarnetteD|Talk 16:54, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

Dang!Sorry about that. I recently switched from Twinkle to RedWarn for semi-automated page patrol, & I guess there are differences between the two that I am not yet proficient with. Your addition did appear to be to the changed text. I cannot find the like in the restored version. I am at work, so I will need to see how your citation can be woven back in later. For now I have added it to External links. Peaceray (talk) 19:03, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

No worries Peaceray and thanks for working on fixing that IPs deletions. I'm sure you are looking forward to the end of the workday, getting home, kicking back with your beverage of choice and having a relaxing evening :-) MarnetteD|Talk 19:10, 28 August 2020 (UTC)