User talk:M-72

M-72, whoever you are, thank you for your additions to the Motorcycle Fork page. I learned something from you.

Where can I learn more about Earles's patent?

You should emerge from your cloak of anonymity and make yourself known!

Jeff dean 15:12, 10 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

M-72, I have honestly enjoyed reading your edits to Russian motorcycles, and hope you edit more. You obviously have good knowledge of them. Please continue editing.

Usually every new arrival gets one of these "form letter" posts. I dont know if you've come across one or not, and I may not be the best person to post it, but ..

Welcome!

Hello, M-72, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome!

Seasalt 10:17, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

URAL standard

Sorry, I don't know much about URALs. Here is what I found about URAL engines on uralmoto.ru website:

Engine number:

First 4 digits: engine version (modification)

8108 - compression ratio 7.0
8128 - compression ratio 8.6
8110 - 720 cc
8103 - engine for Cuba (650cc without starter)
8112 - engine for Iraq (650cc, bi-metal cylinders, forged piston with flat bottom, compression ratio 7.0)

Next digit (modification and features of the engine)

7 - only for USA market
10 - (obsolete) engine with a starter

- Two digits for ignition system

00 - mechanical breaker (?)
01 - electronic

- E22 - international sign of approval and country code

22 - code of Russia

First digit on second line is the year of manufacturing:

e.g. 3 means 2003

Other digits are serial number of the engine

After all engines there can be "snowflake" seal which means engine requires hi-octane fuel (meaning comression ratio 8.6 for 750cc or 8.8 for 650cc) This signs repeats information in the first line (see first 4 digits)

Example:

8108 XX 01 E22 3 XXXXXXX *

The following is the same in Russian (if you need someone with better technical knowledge to translate it):

ЧИТАЕМ НОМЕР ДВИГАТЕЛЯ

- Первые четыре цифры в первой строчке означают модификацию двигателя

8108 - со степенью сжатия 7,0
8128 - со степенью сжатия 8,6
8110 - двигатель 720 куб. см
8103 - двигатель для Кубы (650 куб. см без стартера)
8112 - модификация для Ирака (650 куб. см, биметаллические цилиндры, кованый поршень с плоским днищем, степень сжатия 7,0)

- Цифра, говорящая о модификации двигателя или других его особенностях

7 - только для рынка США
10 - (в настоящее время уже не применяется) обозначала двигатель со стартером

- Две цифры, указывающие на тип системы зажигания

00 - механический прерыватель
01 - электронное

- "Е22" - это знак международного утверждения и код страны, его выдавшей.

В данном случае 22 - это Россия и товарный знак производителя.

- Первая цифра во второй строчке обозначает год изготовления.

Например, "3" - это 2003 год, "2" - 2002 и т. д.

- Остальные цифры - серийный номер мотора.

После всех цифр предусмотрено место для клейма в виде пятиконечной "снежинки", которая говорит о том, что мотор рассчитан на высокооктановые сорта топлива, т. е. имеет степень сжатия 8,6 для двигателей 750 куб. см (8,8 - для 650 куб. см).

Этот знак дублирует информацию, указанную в первой строчке в случае с мод. 8128, однако бывают случаи, когда, в связи с изменениями спецификации, на 108 двигатель устанавливают только поршни со "сферой" под степень сжатия 8,6 (8,8), поэтому эксплуатировать его можно только на высокооктановом топливе.

ПРИМЕР: 8108 XX 01 E22 3 XXXXXXX *

I know it's not what you're looking for but it's the best I could find. BTW, IMZ means Ирбитский Мотоциклетный Завод (ИМЗ) Irbit Motocycle Factory. They have an email infо@uralmоtо.ru. Try writing there if you need more info. Papushin 15:57, 27 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Your edits to Motorcycle

In looking through your contributions, I see that you are a relatively new user. In a short time, you have made some very good contributions to the encyclopedia. However, I believe you are misusing the {{fact}} tag in the Motorcycle article. This template was not intended to be used after every sentence in an article, and your edits could seen by an outsider as disruption to make a point. If you seriously think a section needs better sourcing, please consider using one of the larger templates that are intended for this purpose. Please remember that Wikipedia is not a battleground and that further disruption could result in your being blocked from editing. Thanks! —Malber (talk • contribs • game) 14:09, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Accents

Please do not remove accent marks from Russian letters. They are there to indicate stress and should always be used when known. Thank you.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 02:00, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, M-72. First of all, I strongly suggest that next time you engage in a discussion with fellow Wikipedians, you study WP:CIV and WP:AGF, the former of which is a policy, and the latter—a guideline (and a very good one, too). Incivility and revert warring are not the Wikipedia way and will get you blocked sooner than later.

Now, to address your concerns:

Stress marks are not only used in dictionaries. They are generally used in educational and reference materials, including encyclopedias. Check out a copy of Great Soviet Encyclopedia—you'll see that all title words bear accent marks to indicate stress. Russian Wikipedia does it as well.
Unlike with Russian, there is no tradition of indicating stress in reference material in the English, Danish, Dutch, or German languages.
Regarding the arrangement being "obtrusive", please note that stress marks are there not on my whim, but are a result of previously established consensus. The matter had been discussed on numerous occasions before, and the consensus was to use them as they add encyclopedic value, are not readily available through other sources, and are not trivial or obvious.
Pronunciation (and stress) of any Russian placenames (Irbit is not in Siberia, by the way) is easily verifiable through toponymic dictionaries. Even when some cases cannot be easily verified (and Irbit is not one of them), it is generally preferrable to request citation before removing a piece of data altogether.
I am not a native of Irbit, if that's what you mean. Russian, however, is my first language, and I have a great interest in geography of Russia. Any literate Russian person will tell you which syllable is stressed in Irbit; it's just not one of those cases where there could be doubts.

With all that in mind, I am reverting your edit once more. Please do not remove valuable encyclopedic content again.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 13:34, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the responses, M-72.

Civility. Nobody expects you to be a perfect Wikipedian after less than three months of being here, and nobody expects you to know all the policies, guidelines, rules, and regulations from day one. What is expected of you, however, is being civil. The bottom line is, as long as you abide by these five basic rules and as long as you are willing to learn as you go, you'll do just fine. Upholding truth in a civil manner is a lot more efficient than shouting insults at fellow editors every time you disagree.
Stress marks. Here are a few links to some of the previous discussions I could find: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. I have probably missed something, but these should address you main concerns. Especially note that the fact that while accent marks may indeed be displayed incorrectly on some systems, it is not a reason to remove them. The problem lies not with the accent marks, but with those systems which cannot display Unicode (or its subset) correctly. IPA, for example, probably creates even more problems (for one, it's almost completely unreadable on my pocket pc), but no one would advocate removing it from the encyclopedia! Anyway, if you find these threads insufficient, you are very welcome to ask other editors around the Russia portal, as well as linguists specializing in the Russian language, whether or not there is still a consensus to use the accents. From my experience, however, you are the first editor in quite a while now to take a stand that strong against their usage (but then again, you thought they are only used in dictionaries...).
Siberia. Funny that you mention this article. I had my eye on it for quite a while now. For one, the picture with the "broadest definition of Siberia" is completely unsourced. And the "broadest definition" is pretty much just that—it refers to any place in Asian Russia. Can't get any broader than that! It's good enough for a news reports mentioning some obscure town to the east of the Ural Mountains, but it's definitely wrong to say so in an encyclopedic article. Furthermore, what the residents think is utterly unimportant. Can you provide sources that the majority of the Irbit residents think of themselves as Siberians? Were there polls? Studies? Anything published? Wikipedia does not accept personal opinion as a reliable source. Here is a counter-example: I come from Primorsky Krai, which is also included into "the broadest definition of Siberia". I assure you, if go there and tell the residents that they live in Siberia, they will have a good laugh at you. People there associate themselves with the Russian Far East (RFE), which they in turn completely disassociate from Siberia. You'll, however, have the last laugh, because historically RFE is included into Siberia, even though in modern geography it is regarded as a separate region. Now, I don't know (or can possibly check) what the Irbit residents think of themselves, but, considering that nearby Yekaterinburg proudly bills itself as "the capital of the Urals", I find it strange that they would think of themselves as Siberians. Again, not that it all matters in the end, as the fact in unverifiable in the first place.
Reverts. I stand behind every edit and revert I make and can provide explanation for any of them. It's not to say that I never make mistakes (I am but a human, after all), but I am perfectly able and willing to admit them. Let's take a look back, shall we? On December 19, 2006, this set of edits popped up on my watchlist. Now, it is not at all uncommon for newbies unfamiliar with the guidelines, conventions, and existing consensus to make edits like that. Sometimes accents are removed, sometimes Russian spelling is taken off altogether, sometimes IPA is the target. Since the change is so trivial, I simply revert the change, with the idea that if you need an explanation, you'll ask for it. When you don't ask for one, I forget about the incident altogether. On February 25, 2007 you come back and make the same change, which again pops up in my watchlist. Note, that since more than two months have passed, I don't recognize this is your second identical edit to the same article—I deal with issues like this by the hundreds and can't remember them all. Hence, I do the same thing—revert a trivial edit by a newbie. This time you come back on the same day and re-revert. Now, go ahead and read your edit summary—it seems to imply that accent marks are not used in Russian at all and says something about "other OSes". The first part is obviously untrue to me, as I know perfectly well that accent marks are used, and that this has been discussed in Wikipedia before. I now see that while your edit was in a good faith, you edited something you don't really know much about. Hence, I restore the accents again. Now, at this point I realize that my edit summary would probably be insufficient to satisfy you, so I also leave a short note on your talk page. Again, the idea is that if you disagree, you'll take it to me and try discussing. Instead, I get this rather rude note, in which someone who, from what I can see, isn't even Russian tries to educate a native speaker about usage of accents in his native language and then to, I quote, "BACK-OFF!", end of quote. It's kind of like if I tried to educate you about dangers of riding a motorcycle, when all I know about motorcycles is that it's a fancy bike with an engine! Having written your tirade, you revert again. Well, in my three years with Wikipedia I've seen worse behavior than that, so I provide the explanation and even provide a citation to something that should have been bloody obvious from the very start. Now tell me who is the pot and who is the kettle in this scenario?

Anyway, I hope this is all not for nothing. Judging by your contributions, you'll make a very decent Wikipedian once you tone your rhethorics down, and that's all that matters to me in the end. If I can be of any assistance in the future, I hope this little incident won't prevent you from contacting me.

Also, if there is anything else about this dispute that you think I have not yet addressed, let me know, let's address it together. The beauty of Wikipedia is in cooperation and collaboration, not in outshouting each other. Best,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 14:58, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Supersede

I have been surprised how controversial spelling can be. I have done a few hours of research since my "corrections" caused a few complaints. My conclusion is that supersede is the correct version. Supercede is widely regarded as an error, although it is gradually gaining a foothold into common usage because it has been spelt wrong so many times. MortimerCat 01:10, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Twins!

It seems that you are me. Welcome, unknown twin! I hope you have a good life! --193.254.155.48

I get by. Jeff is a little paranoid and overly Blue and White, but such is life. Acceptance of "widely accepted facts" and a lack of valid research are common in the "motorcycling" articles. Any challenge to the God of "everyone knows it to be true" will be met with attacks. Get used to it. Regards M-72 12:31, 4 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Merger proposed: Twinshock → Suspension (motorcycle)

It has been proposed to merge the content of Twinshock into Suspension (motorcycle). Since you have previously edited one of these articles, I thought you might be interested. You're welcome to participate in the discussion if you like. --B. Wolterding 15:50, 14 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Motorcycle "saddle"

Hi, FYI, I just took some stuff that User:Motorrad-67 put into the saddle article and slapped it wholesale, unedited, into a new article (there is also one called bicycle saddle, so that's the precedent I observed). Motorrad-67 apparently was very unhappy with me for doing this, but past precedent and community consensus from the bicycle saddle breakout suggests that info on motorcycle seats had no real place in the (already very long) saddle article. Yet it DID represent someone's hard work, so I moved it. Anyway, my point is that I know virtually nothing about motorcycles, I was just the messenger. So if motorcycle seats aren't called saddles, whatever you want to do, rename, redirect, retitle, reword, delete, I don't really care as long as stuff on motorcycle seats doesn't wind up back in the saddle article (smile). Montanabw^(talk) 20:29, 20 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Talk:BMW motorcycles

Any particular reason why you reverted my changes to the talk page? Moving old articles to an archive is a perfectly valid thing to do. It lets people see what the current discussions are. --TimTay (talk) 11:19, 17 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Also, if you are going to make changes, what are the changes based on... your opinion? If there's more to it, then provide and cite your references, please. 842U (talk) 13:47, 26 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

April 2008

This warning is in regards to your comment here.

Please see Wikipedia's no personal attacks policy. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that continued personal attacks will lead to blocks for disruption. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you. Roguegeek (talk) 18:48, 25 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

May 2008

Please do not attack other editors, which you did here: Talk:BMW (motorcycles). If you continue, you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia. calling other editors wankers Chris Ssk _talk 14:26, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ho-hum - I'm truly sorry. Bow, scrape, beg forgiveness - NOT. When people revert a deletion of un-cited crap and demand citations - wankers is the term that comes to mind. Don't like it - become human. By all means block me - I'll just become one of the thousands of sock-puppets on wikipaedia (I can spell). Threats like your's show your personality well - Geheimstadtpolizei perhaps?M-72 (talk) 14:55, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As a linguist, can you describe the Australian use of perjoratives? Do you know that "you old bastard" is a term of endearment in Australia? Get off your high horse and return to the debate on BMW rather than threatening me with your linguistic failings.M-72 (talk) 15:13, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This is the last warning you will receive for your disruptive comments.
If you continue to make personal attacks on other people, you will be blocked for disruption. Comment on content, not on other contributors or people. Perogatives? I am Australian. Do NOT try to pin your attack as a perogative. Term of endearment? Even on your own user page, this isn't appropriate. Luigi6138 (talk) 22:10, 18 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Vandalism warning

This warning pertains to this vandalism edit. Please see WP:Vandalism to understand the policy.

Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia. Your edits appeared to constitute vandalism and have been reverted. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you. Roguegeek (talk) 15:04, 4 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

June 2008

This warning is in regards to your comment here.

Please do not attack other editors. If you continue, you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia. Roguegeek (talk) 23:34, 5 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

FYI, there is a discussion about your edits at Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#M-72_and_the_continuing_disruption. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 00:36, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You have been blocked from editing for a period of 48 hours in accordance with Wikipedia's blocking policy for incivility after repeated warnings. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make constructive contributions. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may contest the block by adding the text {{unblock|your reason here}} below. Trebor (talk) 12:14, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

.

ho-humm!

Reading more on admin priviledges, aka wanking with the left hand - all I can say is what a bunch of wankers you all are. Don't worry I'll leave you all to Roguegeeks stupidity and incompetence and leave the Wiki-wanker-world. Wikipaedia was a great idea fucked over by idiots like you lot. Tossers!

You have been blocked from editing for a period of 2 weeks in accordance with Wikipedia's blocking policy for incivility. Please stop. You're welcome to make useful contributions after the block expires. If you believe this block is unjustified you may contest this block by adding the text {{unblock|your reason here}} below. Trebor (talk) 13:28, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

ArbCom elections are now open!

Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:30, 23 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]