User talk:Leeds-hurwitz

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Speedy deletion nomination of Yves Winkin

Hello Leeds-hurwitz,

I wanted to let you know that I just tagged Yves Winkin for deletion, because it seems to be promotional, rather than an encyclopedia article.

If you feel that the article shouldn't be deleted and want more time to work on it, you can contest this deletion, but please don't remove the speedy deletion tag from the top.

You can leave a note on my talk page if you have questions. Thanks!

Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.

VickKiang (talk) 21:42, 20 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yves Winkin moved to draftspace

An article you recently created, Yves Winkin, is not suitable as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. Bbb23 (talk) 00:22, 21 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you - that's a perfect resolution. I've only created a few articles before, and obviously still don't know enough about creating new pages. (I did look up directions, but couldn't find anything about how to set up a new page as a draft.) Leeds-hurwitz (talk) 00:27, 21 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Your submission at Articles for creation: Yves Winkin (January 9)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by TheChunky was:

This submission does not appear to be written in the formal tone expected of an encyclopedia article. Entries should be written from a neutral point of view, and should refer to a range of independent, reliable, published sources. Please rewrite your submission in a more encyclopedic format. Please make sure to avoid peacock terms that promote the subject.

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Yves Winkin and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

❯❯❯ Chunky aka Al Kashmiri (✍️) 03:30, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for reviewing this draft. But I'm confused: I do not understand why this does not meet the requirements of an encyclopedia article. I've actually published half a dozen articles in print encyclopedias (I'm a retired professor), and I've previously created a couple of Wikipedia entries as well, so I thought I understand the basic requirements. Do you want to have a conversation and give me more specific information about what you're finding inappropriate, or do you prefer that I use the real-time chat help? Wendy Leeds-hurwitz (talk) 16:59, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation: Yves Winkin (April 19)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Toddst1 was:

The content of this submission includes material that does not meet Wikipedia's minimum standard for inline citations. Please cite your sources using footnotes. For instructions on how to do this, please see Referencing for beginners. Thank you.

The comment the reviewer left was:

Policy and style issues:

1 WP:DOB. 2 MOS:BOLD issues. 3 MOS:SO

The tone of the article is rather puffy.

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Yves Winkin and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
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Toddst1 (talk) 21:17, 19 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Managing a conflict of interest

Hello, Leeds-hurwitz. We welcome your contributions, but if you have an external relationship with the people, places or things you have written about on the page Nonverbal communication, you may have a conflict of interest (COI). Editors with a conflict of interest may be unduly influenced by their connection to the topic. See the conflict of interest guideline and FAQ for organizations for more information. We ask that you:

avoid editing or creating articles about yourself, your family, friends, colleagues, company, organization, clients, or competitors;
propose changes on the talk pages of affected articles (you can use the {{edit COI}} template);
disclose your conflict of interest when discussing affected articles (see Wikipedia:Conflict of interest#How to disclose a COI);
avoid linking to your organization's website in other articles (see Wikipedia:Spam#External link spamming);
do your best to comply with Wikipedia's content policies.

In addition, you are required by the Wikimedia Foundation's terms of use to disclose your employer, client, and affiliation with respect to any contribution which forms all or part of work for which you receive, or expect to receive, compensation. See Wikipedia:Paid-contribution disclosure.

Also, editing for the purpose of advertising, publicising, or promoting anyone or anything is not permitted. Thank you. MrOllie (talk) 19:29, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm confused. Is it now inappropriate to add a citation to a publication directly explaining the content of an article, if I'm the author? In the two places where I added a chapter citation as documentation, an earlier chapter by me was already listed (something I caught while looking for appropriate links for a new article draft I'm working on). Leeds-hurwitz (talk) 19:43, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It is not "now inappropriate", we've had conflict of interest policies in one form or another for almost 20 years. Apparently I am simply the first person to bring these policies to your attention. As a subject matter expert, you are no doubt familiar with a wide range of sources of diverse authorship. Please cite those. In the rare occasion where only a cite to something you've written will do, you should make a suggestion on the article's associated talk page rather than adding it yourself. There was an earlier chapter already listed because you added that one as well a couple years ago. MrOllie (talk) 19:49, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm surprised no one has ever told me this. Presumably you can tell that I've only worked on a few articles. Unfortunately, a few colleagues have discovered that I know more about Wikipedia entries than they do, and have been asking me to put together a few articles on people who merit them, which is why I'm doing this again. Leeds-hurwitz (talk) 20:37, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What you're doing with the biographies is good - you're using the Draft/WP:AFC process just as you should. If you happen to have a close connection with any of those biographical subjects (like, you were close coworkers or you were friends) you should probably disclose that. If not, you're fine. MrOllie (talk) 20:46, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation: Yves Winkin (July 27)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Drmies was:

This draft's references do not show that the subject qualifies for a Wikipedia article. In summary, the draft needs to

meet any of the eight academic-specific criteria
or cite multiple reliable, secondary sources independent of the subject, which cover the subject in some depth

Make sure your draft meets one of the criteria above before resubmitting. Learn about mistakes to avoid when addressing this issue. If the subject does not meet any of the criteria, it is not suitable for Wikipedia.

The comment the reviewer left was:

Need to see more secondary sources to prove the subject passes WP:GNG or WP:PROF.

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Yves Winkin and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Drmies (talk) 20:28, 27 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for reviewing this. I just looked at the 8 academic specific criteria, and it says only one is required. It is easiest to document that Winkin has met #6: "The person has held a highest-level elected or appointed administrative post at a major academic institution or major academic society." In fact, he has met it twice - he was director of the national institute for education (Institut français de l’Éducation) for all of France, and he was later the director of a major national museum in Paris (Musée des Arts et Métiers). Do neither of these count? Did I not make this sufficiently clear? Leeds-hurwitz (talk) 20:42, 27 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Yves Winkin

I've promoted Yves Winkin to article space. There's always a risk that the article will be taken to deletion, but there are arguments that he passes WP:NACADEMIC, not least holding (if briefly) a named chair, the Harron Family Endowed Chair in Communication at Villanova University. He may also pass criteria 1, 4 & 6. Let's hope that we never have to put this to the test. --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:32, 4 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

My goodness - I didn't know it was even possible to have it accepted before I submitted it again! Thanks for this. To clarify: yes, he was a Harron Chair in the US, but he also was a Provost equivalent in Lyon, and was the director of a national institute in Lyon, and was the director of a museum in Paris. The page you sent me to says he only needs to meet one of these criteria. So far as I can figure out, he should meet #6 at least twice if not three times over; and I would argue he meets #1 and #4 as well. Leeds-hurwitz (talk) 23:46, 4 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I'm of the same opinion. I also think a Festschrift indicates a high level of academic esteem, tending to notability. Still, don't be surprised if others take a different view. Academics often get a hard time on WP. Be ready to argue the case at articles for deletion, against all of the relevant NACADEMIC criteria, should it come to it. Thank you for the article. --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:02, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It was actually one of the editors on the help chat who found the Festschrift and suggested adding it - I hadn't even known about that! Leeds-hurwitz (talk) 00:11, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Janet Beavin Bavelas

Where are you up to with Draft:Janet Beavin Bavelas? Quite a strong claim is being made for WP:NACADEMIC criteria 1, as far as I can see. I'd be content to promote it, but your choice.

You need to check the Don Jackson link in the article - do you mean Donald deAvila Jackson? Currently gors to a disambiguation page. --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:32, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Funny you should ask - I was just looking at it. It was an editor on the help chat who suggested writing an article about Enchantment before submitting the Winkin article again, so I was considering trying to write up an article on microanalysis of face-to- face dialogue, one of her major contributions, to see if that would help make the case. But if you think this is reasonable, I'd be happy to have it just accepted now.

Yes, that Don Jackson - didn't even catch the fact that there are so many on Wikipedia. Can't remember how to write his name so it goes only to that page without adding in the middle name (no one ever uses it when they discuss the Pragmatics book). Leeds-hurwitz (talk) 00:37, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'll sort it. --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:40, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You're amazing - thanks so much for fixing that and, of course, for accepting that article!

I shouldn't ask for more, but I really want to know if you think the Enchantment draft is about ready - I can't think of anything else to do to it. Leeds-hurwitz (talk) 00:46, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's no problem; you've done the work. I'm just a gadfly. I'll attend to Enchantment in a couple of minutes; enough experienced editors have looked at it & seem to think it's a notable subject. Anyway; Janet Beavin Bavelas is promoted and somewhat linked. --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:55, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yay!! You have made my night and returned my faith in people. Leeds-hurwitz (talk) 00:57, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I just followed your link to links to Bavelas - my goodness, she's all over Wikipedia! If I should now add her maiden name, let me know - I could do that. Leeds-hurwitz (talk) 00:59, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know how important that it, so I leave it to you. I added a number of redirects for various styles of her name, and did a rudimentary search for mentions on other articles, which I linked back to her article. It always helps to do this & helps make the notability argument.

Enchantment (social sciences) is now promoted. Don't know what category to put it in. I wish it good luck :) --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:12, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

on Bavelas' maiden name: given that I didn't know it, and I first read her work in 1975, probably not very important.

on categories: one obvious is to put it under communication studies (since that's where Winkin is based) and also (if that's permitted) under both anthropology and sociology (since that's where other major contributors are or were) and maybe urban studies, if that exists as a category, since that's where those examining pedestrian behavior are mostly found Leeds-hurwitz (talk) 01:24, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've added it to Category:Anthropology and Category:Social concepts (which was a child categry of Sociology). I guess the worst that happens is someone removes one or other categorisation. It's also now in Category:Social sciences. The other question is whether there are any other articles on WP that could link to it. I've made a link from Yves Winkin. If so, do add the link. --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:30, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

that works, and yes, I will look if there are other articles to link to enchantment and if so, link them - thanks again for all you've done tonight.

FYI I went into the Goffman entry and found one book by Winkin, linked to his article, and then added 2 other books on Goffman he wrote, and linked to Goffman's dissertation since that's now online

one could work on this forever, and I need to stop for the night. Leeds-hurwitz (talk) 01:33, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I see your "I must stop for the night" is going well. --Tagishsimon (talk) 02:11, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

well, it occurred to me there were other potential links to create between these articles and earlier ones, so I did some of that

still trying to determine where the enchantment article should link - maybe "pedestrian infrastructure" since I can't find any other pedestrian-related categories, but so much of what people do with the idea of enchantment is now related to urban walking? maybe also "urban planning"?

saw your note on categories for Winkin - he's really not known as an anthropologist but either a communication theorist or a sociologist - but I don't know how to change a category tag. "communication theorists" is probably the best category, if that exists - yes, found it in the Bateson entry. is there a category for museum directors? (I found "directors of museums in France" so that would work). and I found "French academics" which would work (also "Belgian academics" since he taught in Belgium first). He's Belgian but spent nearly his entire career in France - not sure how to categorize that..ah, found "Belgian emigrants to France" which works.

that's it - I really am going to crash now Leeds-hurwitz (talk) 02:27, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've added some or all of those; I left the anthropologist category in, since the article states "specifically for developing the anthropology of communication", but you can remove it as you choose. Have also added a lot of university-related categories. --Tagishsimon (talk) 03:05, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

so you've clearly got more than enough category tags now! FYI I took out "Belgian curators" because he was never a museum curator, only a museum director - I know, sounds odd, but he went straight into administration. Leeds-hurwitz (talk) 15:52, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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