User talk:Kudpung/Archive Aug 2017

David Watson

Thanks for the review, I removed wordpress supported exhibition and found an alternative reference (newspaper) to support another exhibition.

CootMoorCootMoor (talk) 12:07, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

Theodora Lee

Had to decline the A7 as there are two news pieces here and here, but I can't rescue an article whose top news hits are to tabloids. I'll have a quick look for anything else, and if I find nothing, I'll AfD it. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 20:18, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

That's OK Ritchie. I was not comfortable with tagging that article and a dozen others like it that all arrived within a few minutes of each oher, and lo and behold, I discovered that an editathon was taking place in South Africa. I don't know who organised it. I've left a message on Peter Gallert's talk page because if anyone knows, he's probably the bet bet. I know Peter personally. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 23:38, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

It's here, Ritchie : See [1] where it was launched on television. Unfortunately a lot of the pages can't be used. Which is a shame. Do you have any contacts in the SA chapter? Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 00:02, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Hi Ritchie and Kudpung, thanks for letting me know about this. Wikimedia ZA is indeed involved in organising and hosting this event with the Swedish Embassy in South Africa and as such it would be a shame to see all these articles deleted or unusable on English Wikipedia. I am not directly involved in this event however I am including Bobbyshabangu in on this conversation as he is leading the edit-a-thon. Ideally more experianced editors can assist the new editors involved in the edit-a-thon in fixing up and improving the pages in question. That would be a double win as not only would there be better quality African related articles on en.Wikipedia but it would also help the edit-a-thon participants to learn how to better edit Wikipedia in a friendly environment.--Discott (talk) 09:10, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Hi Discott, thanks for dropping in. It was a good initiative, the TV news presentation was particularly good. One of the challenges of editathons however, (and I've worked on a few) is ensuring that the facilitators themselves are sufficiently familiar with Wikipedia requirements and also know how to instruct. One of the newer tenets of en.Wiki is that experiments should be made in users' sandboxes or in the relatively new Draft namespace. This will avoid all the unpleasantness of good faith creations being tagged for deletion. Our New Page Reviewers have been asked to remember that they are not a clean up corps, and to concentrate on deleting articles that clearly do not meet criteria for existing in mainspace. Since the huge catastrophe of the IEP which was orchestrated by the Foundation itself, our volunteers are reluctant to engage nowadays in any clean up sweeps. If I am able to come to your Wikimania next year, perhaps you'll permit me to deliver a presentation on New Page Reviewing, or even facilitate or co-facilitate an editathon there. By that time however, new users will probably no longer be allowed to create their articles in mainspace anyway. Please convey my regards to Bobbyshabangu and see the recent comments by Diannaa on his talk page which directly address these issues. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 09:45, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Throwing out the baby with the bathwater?

Kudpung, I saw your message to TonyBallioni and managed to figure out that you had deleted Bruce Flatt. I found a copy of the article in Google's cache. Here are three of the references that were used: a long bio in the New York Times, a long bio in the Globe and Mail, and a piece on CNBC that calls him "the Warren Buffett of Canada". Why on earth would you delete an article on someone who obviously passes the notability guideline just because the article was created by a sockpuppet? World's Lamest Critic (talk) 04:03, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

I would reply by email, but as you prefer not to be contacted, you leave me no option but to reply here. The article will probably be resurrected later by one of us when the moral message conveyed by the deletion has hit home at those who wrote it and caused it to be written. You won't understand, because with your experience you won't, but there are things on Wikipedia that in order to preserve its integrity sometimes mean that blocks and deletions due to sockpuppetry and paid editing are more important than the assumed notability of something or someone whose actual presence on Wikipedia is not really important in the grand scheme of things. If I may be bold as to offer you some advice, I would suggest you turn your skills towards the easier task of creating content rather than trying to police it (we have guidelines about that too, which you do not yet meet). Questioning the wisdom of our most senior admins, Arbcom members, and members of the Board of Trustees of the Wikimedia Foundation will not gain the recognition that you might be hoping to get from your maintenance work and posting on the Founder's talk page..

As for creation by a banned editor, there are a whole range of possible reasons. The rule is that we delete unless some regular experienced editor takes responsibility. . Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:50, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

I wasn't aware that sending "moral messages" was part of Wikipedia. World's Lamest Critic (talk) 12:51, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Well, it's a bit like the moral attitude surrounding block evasion and sockpuppetry - some people feel they don't need to have any moral obligations. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 12:58, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

I wasn't aware that policing the "moral obligations" you feel other people should have was part of Wikipedia. World's Lamest Critic (talk) 13:20, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

You have completely missed the point I was making, so let's leave it there, shall we? Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:24, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Bunker Wünsdorf Zeppelin Deletion

Hi can you please delete the above album. I've created it, from a translation from the German Wikipedia, and and an article was already present on Wikipedia. Thank you.scope_creep (talk) 18:20, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

 Done, Scope creep. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 18:25, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Thanks Kudpung กุดผึ้ง. I was reading the various arguments on the paid editing discussion that is overtaking us. None of them will work, or only partially work, as they mostly address the symptoms rather than the cause, which is access. Why should we warp our internal structure and policies, or fundamental tenets for spammers. I totally agree with the Blind man metaphor. There is no way to grade the moral spammer from the penny thief, nor is it our job to do. As a software engineer, we used to work with the old rule, which is of course, Garbage in, Garbage out. At the core of WP, we have a corps of excellent editors, who are already verified, morally good and verified by physical evidence, which is work: articles. Outside that is the spammers. How do we keep them out; the door need to be closed. It is very easy to let people in, WP is more open that all systems on the web, outside social media. No other site of the web, of this size and quality, would allow this type of access, for such an important entity. Spammers can create and throw away a dozen accounts in a night. So account creation, needs a approval process, which can be graded, similar to due diligence process. A due diligence process can be finessed over time. With the coming of AI, the identification of people likely to become, or already paid editors will be made easier. Why allow then in the door, then CUing them, when it can be done outside? There will always be folk that want in, and there will always be. Folk who morally good, and want a good and successful encyclopedia. This is the first big test of Wikipedia's survival. If we don't survive this, it wont survive, or WP will be picked up by somebody else. Maybe the Chinese. They wouldn't let spammers in, thats for sure. scope_creep (talk) 18:49, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

World's Lamest Critic

I've been going through the list of articles tagged for speedy deletion, and found another that TonyBallioni tagged for deletion under the same circumstances as the article World's Lamest Critic came across. The tagging is certainly outside of the standard CSD norms—G5 clearly states that To qualify, the edit or article must have been made while the user was actually banned or blocked. A page created before the ban or block was imposed or after it was lifted will not qualify under this criterion.. The tagging is based on the fact that the user was likely socking before the creation, which is probably true, but it's a bit of an IAR decision to delete based on that assumption.

Your comments to World's Lamest Critic on their, your, and TonyBallioni's talkpages seem very unnecessary. There's a lot of assuming bad faith and biting there: Questioning the wisdom of our most senior admins, Arbcom members, and members of the Board of Trustees of the Wikimedia Foundation will not gain the recognition that you might be hoping to get from your maintenance work and posting on the Founder's talk page.., and especially threats like Any more personal attacks from them and I'll do some deeper investigation and escalate as required. (after no real PAs, at least that I've seen), and I would hate to have to put such a keen new user under sanctions to prevent any disruption.

I'm especially confused by your statement that The article will probably be resurrected later by one of us when the moral message conveyed by the deletion has hit home at those who wrote it and caused it to be written. World's Lamest Critic is willing to work on it now, why not let them? Last time I checked, "sending a moral message" was not one of the CSD criteria. You twice quote DGG's statement that The rule is that we delete unless some regular experienced editor takes responsibility. It looks like World's Lamest Critic is doing this. They've been around for 9 months and >400 edits, presumably this is enough to trust that they are here to help? GorillaWarfare (talk) 02:24, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for your comments. Yes, IAR is also a policy. Based on the user's history (which you have not examined}, and their manner of commenting, I am not wholly convinced that they belong to a group which might numerically be considered and 'established and experienced'. I am not alone in reaching these conclusions. You threshold for PA might be different from mine, and as we all know, PA is an extremely vague notion, just as I could easily question your AGF in coming here. Are you somewhat on a warpath? Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:36, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

What? I've spent the majority of my afternoon clearing the CSD backlog. I came across a different article with a G5 tag, but noticed that the article's creator is not blocked, nor is the master listed on the SPI, so I dug in to see what was going on. In doing so, I came across your discussions. How does this make my good faith questionable, or suggest I'm "somewhat on a warpath"? GorillaWarfare (talk) 02:44, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

(edit conflict) GorillaWarfare, thanks for the ping. If you're referring to Gene Freidman as the article that WLC came across, that one was never tagged as G5. My main issue with it is that it is a BLP violation (one which WLC introduced). It was PRODed, then contested, and is now at AfD. WLC and another editor had made substantial additions, which is why I did not use add a CSD tag.

I did restore Godric's tag on Svetlana Sagaydak, which I saw you deleted as G11. The only outstanding G5 from that I placed from that batch is Shandong Xinfa Aluminium Group. My position, as I said to WLC on my talk page is that there is significant disagreement within the admin corps as to whether or not G5 applies in these circumstances. In such cases where an article has had no other substantial contributions, it does make sense for it to be reviewed by an admin under that criteria. I certainly don't mind if it is removed on the remaining one. TonyBallioni (talk) 02:45, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

Ah, sorry for the confusion on the G5 issue, and thanks for the correction. I'd seen a few other tags on other articles and saw G5 mentioned a few times in the subsequent discussion. I didn't realize this one was actually tagged as a PROD; I've struck the comment about G5 above. I understand that there's a ton of disagreement about paid editing, sockpuppets (and likely sockpuppets) creating articles, etc., sympathize that it's pretty murky waters, and appreciate your understanding that it's hardly cut-and-dried. I also appreciate you being more civil in your interactions with WLC. GorillaWarfare (talk) 02:52, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

Molly, if you were to examine very closely WLC's editing pattern from the very beginning, I'm sure even you would have reason to be curious. We are allowed to be on the lookout for signs of impropriety, and to do so when within the framework of defending Wikipedia's integrity is not a lack of good faith - as I am sure you understand. What you may however not be aware of is the vast extent of an issue several of us are working on at the moment which is ringing alarm bells everywhere. That said, DGG is the one single editor, admin, and Arbcom member whose axioms on Wikipedia I value and respect the most. I would welcome an opportunity to discuss civility, PA, and AGF, with you some other time - perhaps at a face-to-face meeting.Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 03:28, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

I'll be at Wikimania next week. Happy to chat then if you're attending. GorillaWarfare (talk) 04:16, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

User:GorillaWarfare their 1st edit was to JW's talk page, their 2nd to their own, and their 3rd to an SPI case. Their four was to a AfD noting sockpuppetry and their 5th was to give out a barnstar. This account is obviously not a new user but rather an old user with a new account. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 04:10, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

And yet, some people keep trying to bamboozle me with acronyms and suggestions that I'm too inexperienced to understand the rules. World's Lamest Critic (talk) 14:45, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

My experiences in a nutshell as an NPR: Kudpung has always...ALWAYS AGF and exhibited caution before he makes a decision to take remedial action. No one is perfect, but few have given more of their time and energy to this project as has Kudpung. I can say from first-hand experiences that he takes the time to evaluate, research and explain. Kudpung's actions deserve, at the very least, as much review and consideration as he gives to questionable actions and edits. There have been times when I have been amazed at his patience and understanding. GorillaWarfare, I understand and respect your position, but the issues facing AfC and NPP are coming at us in legions and what I consider to be "unsustainable development". Kudpung has worked tirelessly to develop a cure for what, at times, appears to be an incurable disease. I hope more editors are listening, and have enough foresight to see the bumpy road we're on. ^{Atsme📞📧} 02:24, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

I've been on a bit of a hiatus for a while, but I was just looking around and stumbled across this. I wholeheartedly agree with everything this IP has said here. It's an unfortunate dynamic that has contributed to the "bad Wiki taste in my mouth" I get every time I open a talk page. R. A. Simmons ^Talk 06:46, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

That IP wasn't me. Go ahead and add it to that ridiculous sockpuppetry case that no one ever bothered to close. World's Lamest Critic (talk) 21:08, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

Error

Hi Kudpung. I am writing to you on behalf of your deletion of my article on John Flacker.

Reasons

First of, John Flacker is a well respected footballer and has been for years especially by fans of Nelson F.C. I don't know where you are from however Nelson is a small town in close proximity to Burnley and Manchester in Lancashire, England and John is known by almost everyone in the town as hes an icon. Flacker is even on the Nelson F.C. Wikipedia Page and is the captain (Which is the leader of the team if you didn't know). He warrants a place on Wikipedia due to the fact he was professional at a stage in his career and the Fact that John is a proven Goalscorer in lower leagues of English Football. I've personally meet John and his kids, George and Andrew while in Manchester. I'm not being rude but I feel you've handled this situation quite poorly and I expect to see the article as soon as possible. I am new to Wikipedia and do not know how to reference things but I do know how to link pages from a certain word and I also added in the template that is used for most if not all Professional footballers in whatever league they are in. I am disappointed that you have gone out of your way to delete my wiki page and I am bewildered on the fact you have never heard of John Flacker (unless you are not a fan of football or soccer whatever you call it). Please sort this mess out ASAP as I feel this situation has been unfairly managed. Few references... John Flacker played for 3 years for Walsall as I researched his stats for the article and posted it on Wikipedia, John is still currently playing for Nelson F.C. in the North West Counties league after 10 years of service. John is a proud holder of a record amount of goals scored in Nelsons F.C. history racking up an astonishing 333 goals at his stint at the club. He has a wife called Debbie who is from Glasgow, Scotland and is 34 just like John born on the same day, 30th July 1983 and he has two sons George and Andrew Flacker both twins born on 24 March 2009 and Debbie is the mother. I didn't share online Johns family life without his consent as I am respectful to him and his privacy and all I wanted to do was share to the world his fantastic player career. John is also an iconic figure on Football Manager (you know I would do your research on English football before you reply because I seriously doubt you know anything about it) Football Manger is a game on PC were you simulate time managing a football club as you try and lead them to glory. An aspect to the game is wonderkids, this means a player is a young good player with bags of potential and can be bought cheap and sold on for millions. John was a wonderkid on Football Manager (It was called Championship Manager when John was playing Professionally) in the years of 2003-2007 until he joined semi-professional club Nelson F.C. He would be easily recognisable to anyone who played the game at that time and even to people who play it now as he is known as one of the best players on FM history. That concludes my argument,

I expect the page to be re-uploaded,

that's all,

Puunanny. --Puunanny (talk) 06:04, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) John Flacker has not been deleted, are you sure you are in the right place? ☆ Bri (talk) 06:25, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I did some digging on this one. Flacker is nowhere to be found on historical lists of players for any of the clubs listed in the article, nor in FIFA records of England U19/U21 league players. This article is a complete hoax, and I have tagged it for speedy deletion as such. --Finngall ^talk 06:33, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Puunanny. --Puunanny (talk) 06:04, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Deletion? Re-upload? What on earth are you talking about? I suggest you find out what has happened to your article and come back here when you have calmed down. You are right on one thing of course, I have no knowledge or interest whatsoever in football, just as you appear to have no interest whatsoever in reading the rules of about the creation of articles for this encyclopedia. This will interest you though, enormously, click the link: Article History, John Flacker. Don't expect too much from us here at Wikipedia with your hoax.. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:36, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

German Translation Verification Request

Hi,

I found your name in Wikipedia:Translators_available#German-to-English. I recently translated a few articles German Wikipedia articles about some German towns using Google translate, and I'd appreciate it if you could double-check them to the point where the "rough translation" banner could be removed. The articles are:

• Fußgönheim
• Assenheim
• Hochdorf,_Rhein-Pfalz-Kreis

Thanks! - Degeno (talk) 18:30, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

 Done Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 22:23, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

Thank you! - Degeno (talk) 23:00, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

Deletion review for Bruce Flatt

An editor has asked for a deletion review of Bruce Flatt. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. World's Lamest Critic (talk) 21:11, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

Sorry about that!

Hey there, I was cruising Wikipedia and a message popped up that I had somehow edited something, and that it didn't meet community standards or something of that nature. The upshot is, I wasn't trying to edit anything, and if I accidentally did through hitting some kind of random buttons, I apologize. I don't ever edit, just cruise around the site, so again, sorry!

Jamie — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.232.248.97 (talk) 22:41, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

As it is a shared IP it might not have been you. As a consequence, following investigation, I have now blocked the IP for long term abuse. I am however curious as to why you posted on my talk page about it. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 23:40, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

"Personal Attack"

I take offense at having my statement characterized as a personal attack. Advising someone you are losing respect for them due to their behavior is not an attack, it's a legitimate criticism. I like Legacypac. I think he's a valuable contributor who catches a lot of unnecessary flak for doing useful and necessary cleanup. I support the G13 expansion; I was out there stanning for it just like he was. But that doesn't mean I can't think he was acting inappropriately with both his close and his responses afterwards, and that I can't tell him so. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 21:34, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

Premeditated Chaos, please read my comment again. I drafted it several times before I got it down to something as mild and inoffensive as it was (although I realise I'm not known for beating around the bush). Legacypac does a lot of good work, but like many of us in our enthusiasm it's possible he misses something sometimes or just gets something plain wrong. I know I do. Stating that one is loosing one's respect for another editor, irrespective of their work, is something which IMO is, well, disrespectful, and I see it all too often. Such comments only fan the flames and we admins are supposed to pour the water on them. Thanks for supporting G13. Have you looked at the proposal for G14 too? Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 00:59, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

I've no intention of dragging the debate on; all I'll say is it's not something I would say lightly nor to someone I didn't hold in high regard to begin with. Anyhow. I haven't looked much at G14, but I'll take a read of the discussion. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 09:04, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

Paywalls

Kudz - I'm finding a few issues when trying to validate statements cited to news sources behind paywalls. One source in particular that comes to mind is The New York Times which I can no longer access without subscribing to it. The information they provide is customarily available in free sources of equal reliability, so when I see the NYTimes as the only source being cited, I replace it with an equally RS or I'll simply add the free source, such as The Atlantic, or WaPo, etc. What concerns me most is our readers not having access to a cited paywall source (excluding academic sources, journals, and medical sources). As an editor, I can usually find another editor who has access (I worked about a year with WP:TWL so know how that all works), but a youth 18 or under can't simply order up a subscription for $10 or $20/yr. to a news publication, nor will they bother to if that one article is the only foreseeable time they may need to access the source. Anyway, long story short, I made a suggestion on the Wikipedia_talk:Verifiability#Accessibility and was wondering if that was the best approach to generate discussion for an add-on to the policy suggesting the use of free sources when available or if there was a better way to go about it, like an RfC, perhaps? ^{Atsme📞📧} 02:02, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

I'm the wrong person to ask. From the excerpt you posted from PAYWALL at Wikipedia_talk:Verifiability#Accessibility you probably already know more about this kind of thing than I do. I've written all the articles I want to write and I'm not interested in adding sources for lazy new article creators, so the focus of my work is not in that direction. Nevertheless, no one should feel they need to pay their own money to access paywalled info. However, unless an article is clearly suspected of being used for improper purposes, I think we just have to AGF on paywall sources just as we have to accept references to books which we shouldn't have to buy just to check refs, or as I used to do during my visits home to the UK, traipse to the library to get it (and as often as not, discover they don't have it). You could ask DGG if he would like to join that discussion; he's probably our best authority on sources and sourcing. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:44, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

Atsme, The consistent practice at WP is that we try to use the best sources regardless of language or online availability or paywall, and also try to find good online accessible sources. do not remove paywalled sources, but add to them. This is especially true when the sources are likely to be the best available, such as the NYTimes for American politics. The nNYT offers 10 free articles a month. In addition, probably hundreds of WPedians, including me, have a subscription or access to a site with one, & can check references. DGG ( talk ) 00:33, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

Thanks, DGG but I have some concerns over what's happening with online news sources, and I think NYTimes may be taking the lead that others will soon be following. Paywalls will have a detrimental effect on WP editors because we can't possibly afford to edit voluntarily and have to pay to cite RS. I know Ocaasi has done a great job with WP:TWL by giving editors access to AAAS, BMJ, etc. but because of the bait-click competition on the internet news sources, we have a potential monster knocking at our door. Ad $$ are getting harder to compete for which is what has contributed to the sensational headlines.

I made the mistake of starting a discussion at WP:Verifiability#Accessibility with an informal proposal in hopes of getting some feedback because the first mistake I made before that one was trying to edit a weighty political article that seemed more like a NYTimes promotion as you can see by this image which simply did not belong in that article. I had to laugh when I first saw it...until I realized there was an entire section seemingly devoted to the NYTimes titled ""Public revelation and initial explanations...", and almost every opening sentence in the timeline was: "On July 8, 2017, The New York Times reported...", and "On July 9, The Times further reported..." and "On July 11, The New York Times informed..." and "The New York Times noted that..." I was unable to verify any of it because I got locked out by the paywall. If WaPo, The Atlantic, the AP, LATimes, etc. all follow suit, we've got a problem on our hands because I doubt readers are going to pay to verify what's in our articles, and I doubt even more if editors will be willing to pay for the privilege of accessing RS as volunteer editors. That will leave only the paid editors, and/or staff of those news sources behind paywalls. I think my concerns are justified, but I'd gladly let you convince me otherwise and tell me I'm being silly. ^{Atsme📞📧} 01:11, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

I don't think there is much we can do about paywalls. In a way, I believe they are justified - traditional newspapers are losing out on sales and advertising revenue to the hundreds of online 'news' sites. It's my guess that by around 2030 the traditional print newspaper will be as obsolete as the town crier. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:33, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

• Atsme, Incognito mode is your friend. This is how I get the NYT and Washington Post for personal use all the time  :) . Also, the Atlantic shouldn't have a paywall (I do subscribe to them, but never log in because all the content is available for free). TonyBallioni (talk) 15:54, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

Ahhhh...didn't even enter my mind!! I'm going to try it right now. Thanks, Tony. ^{Atsme📞📧} 16:13, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

Duck hunt

 Looks like a duck to me When you wrote "ducking stool", my eyes read it as "duckings tool". I guess one is, as you say, not SPI's purpose, but sometimes the other is. ☆ Bri (talk) 06:44, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

I wondered how long it would take for someone to see the deliberate literary device (if at all anyone did). Well done :) Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 07:03, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

Missing Wikipedia page

Hi. I am a Brookfield Asset Management employee. My colleague received a strange email from someone stating that that person was a LinkedIn editor, and asking some odd questions. I just went to Bruce Flatt’s page, only to find it had been removed altogether, out of the blue. Can you let me know why? Assuming it was an error, could you please reinstate it? He is the CEO of our company (a Fortune 500 company), and is well respected. I would imagine that this was an error, but please let me know. Many thanks.

Suzanne Fleming — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.252.128.1 (talk • contribs)

(talk page watcher) Bruce Flatt was deleted by policy because it was created by a blocked or banned user. Probably one who had violated the Wikipedia Terms of Service. Did you pay to have an article created or edited? ☆ Bri (talk) 21:34, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

@173.252.128.1:/Suzanne, if you received a strange email that solicited you to come to Wikipedia or asked you to pay for an article, you should immediately forward the entire email with headers to arbcom-l@lists.wikimedia.org or functionaries-en@lists.wikimedia.org. I am pinging @DGG and KrakatoaKatie:, the former is a member of the Arbitration Committee and the latter is a functionary (trusted user) who has recently been involved with a similar case. TonyBallioni (talk) 21:41, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

Oy, the levels of possible joe-jobbing wierdness in this are a bit much. Jytdog (talk) 21:47, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

Yes, Suzanne, please ask your colleague to forward that email in its entirety, including the headers, to functionaries-en@lists.wikimedia.org. I'm asking them to do this for their own protection. As to the article's deletion, it was created by a banned user in violation both of their block and of our Terms of Use, so someone who has no conflict of interest or who has disclosed their paid affiliation will have to recreate it. Katie^talk 21:52, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

German news...

Hi, Kudpung,

Since, you have extreme proficiency in the language, can you please do a favor and confirm that this news-piece asserts--IACA had hired people that had been sent there to train, in what appeared to be a Revolving door (politics)--as is currently written at this article.Winged Blades ^Godric 11:27, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

Hi Winged Blades of Godric. The News article mainly criticises the managements of funds and lack of focus in its activities. It also highlights a high turnover of staff. It does not come outright with what I understand to be revolving door politics, and even if you were to read an English translation of the article, such a claim would be a subjective interpretation on the part of the reader. The term 'revolving door politics' should only be used in the Wikipedia article if a directly equivalent term had been used in the News piece. I believe News is a reliable source. Probably not as solid as Germany's Der Spiegel, a highly respected news weekly, but more middle-of-the-road such as the popular German Quick and Stern magazines in Germany. News appears to be Austria's most popular weekly news media. It is written in Austrian German which similar to Swiss High German, occasionally uses terminology with which I am not fully familiar (a bit like the differences between AE and BE, if you will). Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 18:14, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

Many thanks for such a wonderful analysis.It helped a lot.Winged Blades ^Godric 06:14, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

Another German Translation Verification Request

Hi, do you think you could review another dewiki article I translated? It's User:Degeno/Canton of Mutterstadt. I'd like to make sure it's in a better state than the last ones before I try pushing it out into the main article space. Thanks! - Degeno (talk) 06:43, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

Hi Degeno. It looks alright though I have not compared it to any German original for accuracy. One glaring omission is a mention in the first sentence of the lede of which country it's in. If it were not for 'Speyer' , a city I know well, in Arrondissement Speyer , I would have assumed, much as probably the casual reader, that it is in France until I had read further. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 18:29, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. I reworked the first sentence of the introduction based on your feedback. I plan to rework it further, but only after I get more feedback about the translation quality and correct any errors. I tried to use the clarify templates to pair the original German sentences with my translations to assist with verification. Do you think that was worth the effort? - Degeno (talk) 19:32, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

The link at Mairie is a redirect, so you may just as well use the English expression 'city hall' - which is also a redirect but may save people having to look it it up at all. Or even 'local governments'. The word damaligen = 'original' or 'former' in this context. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 20:19, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

PS: Try to keep translated sentences in he same sequence. Otherwise it make cross checking between two versions somewhat less straightforward. I translate articles like this faster by typing in real time (or using Google to save much of the actual typing)- but of course I'm fluent in both languages. Keep up the good work. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 20:32, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback, I've updated the article based on it. Even if you can't review the whole thing, I'd especially like some help with the following few bits that I'm particularly unconfident about:

• The terms Friedensgerichtsbezirke (peace court district?) and Friedensrichter (justice of the peace?).

Correct. Also 'magistrate'

• In den Revolutionsjahren 1848/1949 war Falciola mit der Aufklärung der Revolutionsgeschehnisse befasst unter anderem in Rheingönheim durch Zeugenverhöre.

Ok

• Das Rentamt, eine zu örtlichen Einnehmereien übergeordnete Finanzbehörde mit einem Rentamtsbezirk, blieb in Oggersheim.

Rentamt=financial administration office of monarch, church or baron

• Im Jahr 1852 wurde für den Kanton Mutterstadt nun als Distriktgemeinde, ebenso für alle anderen Kantone in der Pfalz, zur überörtlichen Planung und Verwaltung (u. a den Unterhalt der Distriktsstraßen) ein Distriktsrat- und ausschuss, besetzt aus Vertretern der Kantonsgemeinden eingeführt.

Translation OK

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Degeno (talk • contribs) 21:45, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

- Degeno (talk) 21:56, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

User:Kubangkangkung

Thanks for blocking this user. However, from what it looks like (from the numerous WP:AIV reports there) that this is a socking/block evasion incident. See accounts: [2] [3] [4]. Could you up this to an indefinite block? Thanks. 2601:1C0:10B:A87A:E561:C239:FFE7:A689 (talk) 04:51, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

My Mistake

Hi Kudpung, Please accept my apology for a too quick revert to Tanjong Katong Secondary School. - Samf4u (talk) 02:08, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

Is it appropriate...

...for editors with whom I have a disruptive history to pounce on a newly created article and nominate it for AfD because of another dispute originating from another article? See the edit summaries where large blocks of text have been removed. I have been unable to edit because of the disruption and attacks. ^{Atsme📞📧} 11:11, 14 August

I've read the article. I'm a Brit and I have no dog in this fight. I've never really been interested in American politics or the system of government. We weren't taught about it in school and even today I find it very difficult to grasp. The UK, which is nevertheless a politically very powerful country, just does not have intrigues like this. Or, if they do, the public never gets to hear of them. I'm afraid therefore that the editors are free as they always are, to ax and change content written by anybody. It's been sent to AfD and even there I don't understand what's going on so it's not an AfD I would venture to comment on - or even neutrally read the consensus and close it. You always mean well, I know that, so do a lot of other people but I'm afraid you'll just have to bite the bullet and wait and see what happens there. Let's just hope that common sense prevails and that closure reflects an outcome that serious Wikipedia editors will vote for (if they turn out, of course). That said if anyone is bullying you to the extent it could be proven and escalated, don't hesitate to let me know. Take courage :) Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 12:31, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

(talk page watcher) I saw this convo and went ahead and voted, hopefully as K says, for something serious eds will support. Will follow up at Atsme's talk. ☆ Bri (talk) 22:38, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

Hey, Kudz - I figured out why editors are getting confused about the focus of the article, and why they think it should be merged with Clinton emails even though it's about the DOJ and MSM, and not Clinton's emails. The tarmac meeting is just the detonator for the explosives which are the emails the DOJ recently released, and that's what the allegations are based on. It's about law enforcement which should not be involved in politics and MSM which is supposed to have its own media watchdogs who are not dependent on the talking points provided by the DOJ. That's pretty much it in a nutshell. The article has the wrong title and I need to be able to finish what I started without disruption. So now my question is how do I fix it? Should I propose a name change/move or as the article creator, request speedy deletion and start over with the right name? ^{Atsme📞📧} 23:41, 14 August 2017 (UTC) Nevermind - I figured something out. I will leave you in peace. ^{Atsme📞📧} 23:53, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

MonkeyKingdom

Please review Okin Ojara. Thank you!

Noah Edward Deletion

Hello Kudpung. I am wondering why you want to delete the pages Noah Edward and the Time Traveling Adventure and Noah Edward Book Series.

Sincerely Da Boz152 (talk) 02:36, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

Eyebeam Creative LLC

Hi, I'm writing regarding the "‪Speedy deletion nomination of Eyebeam Creative LLC‬." This article should not be speedily deleted for lack of asserted importance because the design firm created significant brand identities for Washington DC-based, national and international organizations (e.g. America Scores, Bristol-Myers Squibb, and The World Bank Group). One of their logos is featured/credited in the Wikipedia entry for "High Heel Drag Queen Race," another for "Emerald Cities Collaborative." Thank you for your consideration. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gggersch (talk • contribs) 02:34, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

Hi Gggersch, the article (all three lines of it) was deleted because the it didn't clearly say why the subject is important enough to be included in an encyclopedia. It was totally unsourced and we looked but could not find anything that makes it meet our criteria for notability at WP:ORG for companies or even more generally at WP:GNG. Just having a list of big name clients unfortunately does not help - notability is not inherited. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 12:08, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

deletion of page "E.S.R.A. English Speaking Residents Association"

Hi, I have seen your name as responsible for deleting the above page after I have added it. E.S.R.A. is a volunteering organization in Israel which helps a lot of people. This is not an advertisement as they sell nothing. They have an internet site and they asked me to add for them a page in Wikipedia. I have no idea why you have decided to delete it. I would appreciate an explanation, and more over - to return their page to Wikipedia. Yael.Gazit yg (talk) 07:09, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

Hi Gazit yg, I admit that we're not very good at telling people what's acceptable before they start creating an article (unless of course they choose to use the WP:Article wizard), but that's the fault of the company that owns this encyclopedia, not Wikipedia itself. Unfortunately, not only did the article 1) not meet our requirements for notability (See;WP:ORG), but 2) while you may not have intended it to be an advertisement, it was indeed totally promotional (see WP:PROMO). Also, 3) you are part of the organisation so you have a WP:Conflict of interest and should not be creating the article. We do not accept articles of this kind even for non-profits, and 'moreover', we do not accept demands to reinstate them. There does not appear to be anything of substance written in dedicated independent articles about it in the established press or media (I've looked). If your Wikipedia page would be the best exposure you or your company or organization has ever had, it should not be on Wikipedia. An encyclopedia is not a place for a company, a product, a person, if it's not already notable.Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 11:49, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

Scorpions and Miniskirts

Thanks for that. but what do you mean 'unreviewed'? I do have an external link IMDB for the film and see no reason to include a reference as it's pretty obvious that the film does exist. This isn't some crap where you have to have New York Slimes reviews, like anyone cares about them?Foofbun (talk) 21:40, 15 August 2017 (UTC) I have placed two references on the filmFoofbun (talk) 22:01, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Foofbun, please see WP:NFILM. 'Autopatroled' is designed to releieve some of the work for New Page Reviewers, and autopatrolled pages should be free of any issues that weould need to be tagged. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 22:25, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Walking in shoes?

Sorry if this is stupid/arrogant of me to ask, but as far as you know have any of the WMF people who are a) raising concerns and b) who are on the research team , ever done NPP? If not, would it make sense for you and Tony (counting on tps) to each host a session for say an hour or half an hour, in which you do a NPP session and share your screen and narrate? Not dramatically, but just show them a normal workaday session ? Experiencing it especially through an experienced NPPer' eyes might help them form better research questions, maybe? Jytdog (talk) 04:01, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Hi Jytdog, it's not a stupid/arrogant question - quite the contrary. Just before development actually began on Curation, I did a real time NPP session over Skype with Erik Möller, Jorm, and a few others of their devs. I doubt very much that any of the current staff have any significant experience at NPP - certainly not enough hours of it to draw any conclusions. People like me and others who have been doing NPP for years have enough experience to give us bad dreams. It's possible that Kaldari, who has been around since the days of the creation of the Curation system has some overview, but it won't compare with the wealth of empirical knowledge we have of it.

The live demo went very well but it's not an experience I want to repeat. In any case, I believe it was before I was an admin, and nowadays my patrolling is done from the perspective of an admin, so I keep unilaterally deleting a lot of crap on the fly, while I see things that take me off to investigate possible socking or paid editing or anything else that seems odd. Also, I think it would provide a better overview if other reviewers with a bit less experience or routine were to do such a live demo. That said, we're so far advance now with the upcoming rollout of ACTRIAL, I don;t think it matters for the time being. It would be more important after the trial when we see more clearly what needs to be improved. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 07:37, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for answering, and so kindly. If anybody who does NPP wants to offer a demo to the people doing research especially, it could not hurt I reckon... I am just concerned that the data they are going to gather won't reflect the kinds of questions the editing community wants answered and have been puzzling how to help them.... Jytdog (talk) 07:43, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Jytdog, if you're thinking of asking someone, these special lists might help: Patrollers. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 12:48, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

• Jytdog, ironically enough because of the work getting ACTRIAL ready and some things going on in RL, the time I spend patrolling has gone down recently. The past few weeks I've mainly been using edit filter 867 to check for cases of obvious commissioned works and socking. Still NPP, but a bit different than the endless feed. To your actual question: I could lead a screenshare session with them using the new pages feed, but I agree with Kudpung it might be a better use of time in 6 months after the trial has concluded. TonyBallioni (talk) 16:04, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

OK thanks! I won't take it farther than here. Jytdog (talk) 17:20, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

COI - of a different kind

Hi Kudpung. Because it involves New Page and AfC reviewers along with other maintenance workers (SPI, COIN), an informal chat has begun on some aspects of paid editing. See Conflict of Interest - of a different kind. Please add your thoughts there. It is not a debate or RfC.
From WP:NPPAFC. Opt-out. Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:24, 20 August 2017 (UTC) .

Re: your recent contributions

On two occasions, I have advised against making the inference that 'student' = school. For one, why does it matter (see Wikipedia:Guidance for younger editors, which explains that editors will not judge one for their age), and why would you choose to patronise an editor due to an assumption which you have made (with no evidence to support your case). Back to work, folks (or school, as the case may be...) was aimed at me. It was because of some sort of prejudice you have against school children (which you think I am), and was not based on the comments I made to that discussion. I was—by the way—not making it 'all about me'. You would have seen that I was responding to other editors' comments.

You appear to have conducted your own research to find exactly in which school I spent my time. Or, as you would say, spend. I do not know how you found this information (please inform me), or why you felt the need to introduce it into a discussion such as the on we were having (actually, no, one I was having with another editor).

Commenting on the times at which I contribute to Wikipedia is not necessary. It is almost as if you are trying to highlight to other editors that I am in some way doing something wrong. Which I am not. only on a few rare occasions is patronising and inappropriate. I do spend a lot of time on WP after midnight, finishing work which I started earlier in the day. I do not need you to draw attention to exactly how many edits it is. You clearly chose to look at the diagram on my edit count page, rather than scrutinising the list of contributions yourself: should you have opted for the latter, you may have discovered something different in the trend.

Your inspection of my edits has clearly not been all that thorough; the assertion that I applied for AfC immediately after passing the required number of edits is false. I waited nearly a month—it was never my intention to move into AfC, actually.

Praising other editors for their 'extraordinary patience' when you have only read one discussion is an attempt to further blemish my name. You have no idea what was happening at that time. There were numerous long email discussions which took place over the period of weeks, and open damnation of a limited selection of my edits in a totally irrelevant discussion at the MoS talk page, simply because he was against a point I was making. He needed a way to discredit my opinion.

On the AfC participants talk page, you chose to end a discussion. You decided when I had said enough. Administrators blocking out the words of junior editors ... sounds like you are trying to censor my voice. I now ask you to re-open the discussion, so that it may continue—if necessary. I will be forced to involve other administrators should you choose not to do this.

Anyway, for consistently not assuming good faith, drawing attention to my age and at which level of education you consider me to be, and pointing out details to discredit my arguments, I present you with the following;

Please do not attack other editors. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you.

I will make my decision as to whether to take this to ANI after consulting other editors, and reviewing the contributions of others during this process. –Sb2001 ^{talk page} 17:06, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

Above

I'm truly sorry for poking the hornet's nest with this one, Kudpung. I think Sb2001 is going to take me to ANI too, would you like to share the taxi ? Nick (talk) 18:30, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, why not, Nick ;) Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 22:20, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

I'm in too. John from Idegon (talk) 20:48, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

Need help to create Meghdeep Bose (MDB) article

I have got all the links but have no idea how to put them there. Nigam.kirtimaan (talk) 23:22, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

Nigam.kirtimaan, I have replied on your talk page. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 23:42, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

Thank you, I'll go through it and edit it accordingly. I'll also be in touch with you, if you could help me in creating it. Nigam.kirtimaan (talk) 13:29, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

Questions about your new biography of teen guitarist Tina S

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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I was struck by the final two sentences in the article you created about a sixteen year old guitarist who seems to be known only for YouTube videos. They read "Bass player Wolfgang Van Halen announced his interest in meeting the young guitarist. The meeting did not however take place". Notwithstanding the trivial nature of those sentences, I looked at the references you used. The reference for the first sentence says "She's caught the attention of guitar craftsman Patrice Vigier, bassist Wolfgang Van Halen and literally millions of people around the world on her YouTube channel". I see nothing suggesting that Wolfgang Van Halen announced any intention to meet the young teen. Perhaps I missed it. As for the reference you used for the second sentence, I could find no mention of Wolfgang Van Halen at all. Can you explain how the references relate to the stated facts? Thanks. World's Lamest Critic (talk) 01:11, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

I'm not quite sure what you were trying to do with this edit but it seems to have messed up the references. World's Lamest Critic (talk) 14:08, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

• I have done some cleanup work on this article, to bring it in-line with the MoS, and sort out the references, etc. I was a little taken aback by the article, at first, as I am not sure how such an experienced editor could think that this would be of an acceptable standard. The subject appears to meet notability (from a quick search on google), and there are sufficient in-line citations. World's Lamest Critic, I suggest that you remove any references that do not correspond to the content in the article, and then start to tag content as unsourced. After a while, it will be deleted. –Sb2001 ^{talk page} 16:08, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

(talk page watcher) Well, it clearly meets WP:ANYBIO through WP:DEPTH and WP:PERSISTENCE of coverage. As for the content; meh- it was obviously from fr.wp, whose concern for precision of sourcing is clearly slightly less than their concern for the quality of their omelettes. — fortunavelut luna 16:34, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

Not that you would be using racial stereotyping there, though? French cuisine has never quite been to my taste. Some serious work on the article is needed. I think that it should have been submitted through AfC, where it would—almost certainly—have been rejected. But anyway, I cannot do anything now. –Sb2001 ^{talk page} 20:14, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

(talk page stalker)You seriously need to get over yourself, Sb2001. An editor that has created over 200 new articles absolutely does not need to go through AfC to create an article. Your insinuation is simply ignorant. Now go ahead and take me to ANI for making a personal attack. Also, no-one made or even implied an ETHNIC stereotype. The French are not a race. Yet another ignorant comment. Your actions are not promising for your future as a Wikipedian. John from Idegon (talk) 20:47, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

You get over yourself: I was joking about stereotyping, in response to the previous contributor's remark. My next sentence does sort of imply this. This article is of poor quality. How would you like it if I followed you round, calling you a school child? Learn the whole story before making stupid, uninformed comments like this. Or I shall take you to ANI. Stay out of my way in future. Do not make personal attacks. –Sb2001 ^{talk page} 21:14, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

• I'm sure Kudpung will comment here when he's back online, but I understand now that the article itself was copied from French Wikipedia. Still, shouldn't the editor who translates such an article check that the information is backed by by the sources? Especially in cases like this one where it is a biography? Right now the article lists a date of birth. I have no idea where that date comes from. It might be in the French references, but that seems like the kind of thing that absolutely needs to be confirmed before putting a BLP into article space. That's why WP:BURDEN and WP:BLP exist. World's Lamest Critic (talk) 21:01, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

Yes: it is Kudpung's responsibility to check this sort of thing. It is unacceptable for editors questioning this to be met with such hostility. –Sb2001 ^{talk page} 21:14, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

Also, the image was an obvious copyright violation so I have asked on Commons for it to be deleted. World's Lamest Critic (talk) 21:03, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) @World's Lamest Critic: note that obvious copyvios qualify for speedy deletion and can be tagged for same without opening a discussion—hence Nick’s prompt action. (Whenever in doubt, however, the full deletion process should be used, so I’m not faulting your listing it at DR.)—Odysseus1479 21:33, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

Good on you. Do not allow complacency from editors. Thank you for doing it properly, unlike the highly-experienced editor, who should no better. –Sb2001 ^{talk page} 21:14, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

I've deleted the file on Commons, World's Lamest Critic. Nick (talk) 21:19, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

Kudpung, I see that you have now deleted Tina S. That's fine and I'm sure someone will write a properly sourced article eventually. I would still appreciate an explanation of how such a problematic article came about. There's something very wrong if editors can simply translate an article without being expected to verify the facts against the references. World's Lamest Critic (talk) 14:58, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

I agree. We cannot have an environment where poorly-sourced articles are translated by administrators, and brought straight into the main space. The referencing of this particular article was unacceptable. I imagine that editors will have to start scrutinising all of your creations, to ensure that similar mistakes are not made. You really should have reviewed every reference. That is why I mentioned AfC: these things are checked, and this article would not have been accepted. –Sb2001 ^{talk page} 15:03, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Jytdog, I'm not sure why you would take it upon yourself to close a discussion on someone else's talk page. If Kudpung is on a break or something, I don't mind waiting for his response. World's Lamest Critic (talk) 18:15, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

User talk:John from Idegon#Stalkers suggests that he is not on a break, only not willing to answer such criticism. –Sb2001 ^{talk page} 19:56, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

Sb2001, I don't think that discussion is at all related to the questions here. Why don't we give Kudpung a chance to respond before making assumptions? World's Lamest Critic (talk) 20:27, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

I do. See User talk:Kudpung#Re: your recent contributions, which I left a few days ago, for a brief overview of my problems. I am beyond assuming good faith. Probably not the best idea to be like this to editors on your side ... maybe don't leave edit descriptions like that. –Sb2001 ^{talk page} 21:04, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

• Jytdog: your reason for closing the discussion makes no sense. If you are going to cut it off before the talk page's owner has had sufficient chance to respond, at least give us clear reasoning, please. –Sb2001 ^{talk page} 19:58, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

To be frank, I got sick of watching you and WLC make a mountain out of a molehill; you both are acting like vindictive high school kids. Everybody fucks up sometimes and now you have too. Go do something productive and stop grinding your ax. Jytdog (talk) 20:30, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

It is wrong for an editor to criticise others for making trivial mistakes, when they are making ones which are a lot worse. According to Kudpung, I am a school child. –Sb2001 ^{talk page} 21:04, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

@Sb2001 and World's Lamest Critic: I strongly suggest that you two go find something else to do. The point where this discussion was useful, if it ever was, has long since passed, but feel free to continue on your own talk pages if you like. ​—DoRD (talk)​ 21:17, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

I expect Kudpung will respond to my questions here whenever he is back online. Any disagreements between Sb2001 and others are nothing to do with me. World's Lamest Critic (talk) 21:26, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Biocom deletion review

Hi Kudpung - I remember you from some of the discussion related to NPP triage and from the recently closed AfD for Private purchasing group [[5]]. We also interacted with the recently deleted Biocom article. I just was notified that the logo I uploaded for Biocom was orphaned, because the article was deleted. I didn't create the article, but added the logo and made some minor changes including removing promotionalism to improve it before voting keep. I was hoping to get some clarity on your decision to delete versus what might seem to be a more appropriate no consensus close. I looked at the previous deletion nomination that was closed as no consensus and it was 11 deletes plus the nominator, versus 5 keeps. The closer argued that the keeps had more substance and therefore had more weight.[[6]] The second nomination, which you just closed after responding as an uninvolved editor, was even closer. After the article was nominated, I and another editor removed some promotionalism to address the concerns. From that point, there were two keeps, then a relist, and 4 more keeps and 5 deletes. It was 6-5 keep after the rewrite which if anything suggests it should have been a no consensus close, not a delete. There's also an editor who wanted to vote keep but thought they had to abstain since they edited the article. It's more work to add sources, remove promotionalism and add logos to fix articles worth keeping than to vote delete - perhaps that can factor in as well. I know AfD isn't just a voting system but just wanted to make sure you had all the background. In any case, see you out in the trenches. Cheers! TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 19:25, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

Hi Tim. I agree that it wasn't an easy close and that even different admins may well have closed it differently. Only one admin closes an AfD and I closed it with what I considered the best result. However, I certainly won't stand in the way of a DELREV. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:15, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

Tags removed

I tagged Mạc Thái Tổ because it needs more sources and inline citations, but the 2 tags I added were removed and I don't understand why. Am I missing something that I should know about this particular article? I don't want to repeat the same mistake if indeed it was a mistake. ^{Atsme📞📧} 13:23, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

Hi Atsme. Sorry for the late reply, but as you can see above, I've been tied up with sorting a lot of diffs that might be necessary for an ANI case. I don't think it matters now about your tags, the user has been blocked. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 00:56, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

Ah hah! The old rope trick got 'em.😊 It appears there are numerous articles the user created or edited (several dating waaaay back), all with sourcing issues, or reverted redirects, or stubs, mostly all unassessed. It looks like a List of Viet Nam emperors, or the like could be created and the stubs moved over until an enterprising editor decides to start expanding them. They appear to have historic significance but are not without significant issues. Maybe one of your (talk page stalker) will be able to help with this or can find someone who speaks the language: Giang Văn Minh, Ten Great Campaigns, Shi Xie, Đoàn Thị Điểm, Lê Thần Tông, Lê Gia Tông, Lê Hi Tông, Lê Cung Hoàng, Lê Dụ Tông, Lê Vĩnh Khánh, Printed_matter, Mystery of Lệ Chi Viên, Later Lê dynasty, Lê Quang Trị, Lê Cung Hoàng, Lê Cung Hoàng, Mạc Anh Tổ, Đoàn Thị Điểm, Revival Lê dynasty, Lê Hi Tông, Lê Trang Tông, An Tư, Huyền Trân, Lê Vĩnh Khánh, Huyền Trân, and more, more, more!! Ugh...lots of work. I still don't understand why, if we're the English WP, we're dealing with articles that cite sources in other languages. It makes it extremely difficult to verify them. ^{Atsme📞📧} 01:49, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

New Page Reviewer Newsletter

Hello Kudpung, thank you for your efforts reviewing new pages!

Backlog update:

• The new page backlog is currently at 16,991 pages. We have worked hard to decrease from over 22,000, but more hard work is needed! Please consider reviewing even just a few pages a a day.

Technology update:

• Rentier has created a NPP browser in WMF Labs that allows you to search new unreviewed pages using keywords and categories.

General project update:

• The Wikimedia Foundation Community Tech team is working with the community to implement the autoconfirmed article creation trial. The trial is currently set to start on 7 September 2017, pending final approval of the technical features.
• Please remember to focus on the quality of review: correct tagging of articles and not tagbombing are important. Searching for potential copyright violations is also important, and it can be aided by Earwig's Copyvio Detector, which can be added to your toolbar for ease of use with this user script.
• To keep up with the latest conversation on New Pages Patrol or to ask questions, you can go to Wikipedia talk:New pages patrol/Reviewers and add it to your watchlist.

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If you wish to opt-out of future mailings, go here. TonyBallioni (talk) 20:33, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

CSS

The canted-at-an-angle ToC is cute, but it's overlapping and covering up text; needs some kind of margin somewhere.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  22:32, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

Hi Mac, it only covers stuff that should have long been archived. Let me take this opportunity to thank you for your patience with younger users. Best, Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 00:47, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

Do my best. Going over this stuff, I've been trying to work with (or perhaps on) that one since at least July 8. Looking it over again, I can't see anything pertinent that hasn't been explained, in depth. It really is a WP:NOTGETTINGIT case. The false credentialism claims (to expertise on English grammar and usage) are of particular concern. Even the last person T-banned from MoS actually had some English-teacher credentials.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  00:53, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

The only credentials this one has is the UK Grade 10 exams. He needs some credentials in general behaviour. I'm glad I'm not his class teacher. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:00, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

Explanations?

Hi, in this diff you stated, "There is no distinction between paid editors and editing for pay; as I have already clearly said, they both prey on the unpaid voluntary work of the people who build this encyclopedia and maintain it." I am wondering if I can get you to expand on that a bit for me. Preying on the work of others... I am not sure I understand (or I am not sure I believe what I think I understand). Nothing I have done as a paid editor has siphoned resources away from the project, and the fact that I have declared becoming a turncoat should make that point moot regardless. A better analogy in that case is maybe gun ownership (?): all the people who own guns are just as bad as all the people who kill people with guns. But maybe I am not getting you. Please explain for me, if you will. Thanks. KDS4444 ^(talk) [Note: This user has admitted participating in paid editing, though he has no COI with regard to this edit whatsoever.] 06:10, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

KDS4444, the bitter analogy is that anyone who accepts compensation for their work on Wikipedia is exploiting the unpaid human resources of the others who build it for free and keep its content clean, with: 'And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.' I thought I have expressed that clearly enough. Several times. That's all I have to say on the matter. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:26, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

Thank you, Angry Jesus. KDS4444 ^(talk) [Note: This user has admitted participating in paid editing,— trust but verify.] 01:39, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

Well, I thought a 2,000 year old bit of ethics would have explained something. I've replied on your talk page because that's where the action really should be and where Jytdog has been trying to help too. [Note: This user does not admit participating in paid editing, because he has never done any]. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:58, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

Eliseo Branca

the article was still in development, i was transfering the content to the article about Sergio Carossio. --KoreanDragon (talk) 16:34, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

The deletion of Jaymie Valentin's wiki page

Hello, sir. Why did you delete Jaymie Valentine's wiki page. All the info was correct, I believe. She even hired professionals to put it up right. So please put it back up, or inform us of any potential error.

Best Regards Akashaton (talk) 08:16, 28 August 2017 (UTC)Akashaton Akashaton (talk) 08:16, 28 August 2017 (UTC)Alf Kjetil Aas

(talk page watcher) Hello Akashaton, thank you for confessing to being paid to write articles. You certainly came to the right place to do so! Yours, etc., — fortunavelut luna 08:20, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

It was deleted because you (or your 'friends') were paid to write it. That's not the way Wikipedia works. Wikipedia is contributed and run by volunteers. We don't appreciate people making money out of our work. The subject of an article created by that user contacted Wikipedia stating they had received an unsolicited email threatening retribution if they did not pay them for creation and maintenance of the article.

Whether the info was correct or not, extortion by a Wikipedia 'editor' is a crime; the article is not going to be restored. I will investigate now to see if your account should be blocked too. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 08:32, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

I have not found any evidence that you were the author of the original page, but please read WP:COI. Thanks. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 11:36, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

Inspite of all the incidents in the recent past that your page was a witness to; this query was by far the best.They couldn't have chosen some venue more apt..Winged Blades of Godric^{On leave} 17:15, 28 August 2017 (UTC)